About the former: It's Cryptic's problem to solve, not Germany's. If Cryptic cannot comply to German regulations it just will have to cease operations there. (But: this will not necessarily be the case). Germany would just go on.
The only losers in this case would be the players/fans.
I find that most of the governments of the world go after gambling because of puritanical reasons or tax reasons, or both (see the US). In theory if PWE or whatever gave a portion of the proceeds to the government in question in the form of taxes, that legislation would disappear unless it is nanny based or puritanical based, in which case, there's frankly nothing Cryptic can do.
Again, it is NOT the government which is active here.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I cannot see how the Lockbox in STO is a gamble. No matter what you ALWAYS get something (Lobi,random gear, ship etc. maybe not the shiney you want but you get something.) from them. If it were gambling you would either win an item or get nothing (No lobi, no random gear. no random ship or other item). THe all or nothing is gambling this isn't as you always get a payoff.
About the former: It's Cryptic's problem to solve, not Germany's. If Cryptic cannot comply to German regulations it just will have to cease operations there. (But: this will not necessarily be the case). Germany would just go on.
The only losers in this case would be the players/fans.
I find that most of the governments of the world go after gambling because of puritanical reasons or tax reasons, or both (see the US). In theory if PWE or whatever gave a portion of the proceeds to the government in question in the form of taxes, that legislation would disappear unless it is nanny based or puritanical based, in which case, there's frankly nothing Cryptic can do.
Again, it is NOT the government which is active here.
Gambling is quite healthy in the US or are you unaware of the nearly nationwide lotteries, horse tracks, dog tracks, Indian Casinos, Las Vegas, etc. ?
I preferred STO when it was subscription based. Especially after I bought a LTS.
I assume the stupid lockboxes make a lot more money than subscribers + c-store only or else they'd not do it.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Yeah, ok, but while they might have a noble goal, I suspect that practical realities will be more of an influence on how it ends up in the end than noble sentiments.
The #1 thing about making something a law is you have to write it down on paper, and people then ignore what you WANTED it to do and do what you wrote instead of what you wanted to happen.
I cannot see how the Lockbox in STO is a gamble. No matter what you ALWAYS get something (Lobi,random gear, ship etc. maybe not the shiney you want but you get something.) from them. If it were gambling you would either win an item or get nothing (No lobi, no random gear. no random ship or other item). THe all or nothing is gambling this isn't as you always get a payoff.
But it IS a gamble
Look at all the lockbox promos - Do they make a point the Lobi is the prize and the rest is a bonus?
Of course not - The promos are all about the 'bonuses' as the main prize
or put another way...
Casinos in Vegas have 'comps' - basically each dollar you gamble, you get x back in points towards free drinks, shows, accomodations, drugs, hookers... the usual Vegas stuff (well, likely not the last two..) Why? As they figured out psychologically if humans lose, they lose the will to play... thus the comp points are a method of 'winning' regardless that keeps them playing
Knowing this, does that mean playing blackjack for comp points isn't gambling?
or another way.. would anyone play blackjack to get said comp points?
and if, say; they could play blackjack for comp points but there was NO payoff, would they?
Considering this; you can consider Lobi to be STOs version of these comp points - You get them regardless if you win or lose, and x points can be recouped for various items - and even if one proclaims they are lockboxxing for lobi the truth is... they know no matter what, they might get the top prize while doing so - thus the focus is not on the Lobi but the so called 'bonuses' potentially gained
So to summarise; comp points=/=lobi, both gained as a psychological renumeration to promote, yup
GAMBLING - no matter what, the simple undeniable truth is lobi is designed akin to comp points; aggresively using the human mentality of 'winning when losing' to promote futher purchases, lobi basically being the 'free $30 show after spending $100 bucks on roulette'
Now to address " No matter what you ALWAYS get something (Lobi,random gear, ship etc. maybe not the shiney you want but you get something.) from them."
There are plenty of gambling systems that operate on varying payouts - be it slot machines, racing and a myrid of other gambling opportunites - but like lockboxes, you are always aiming for the top prize. Regardless if you get it or not, the fact is that is the point of the box structure and the fact the odds are so low to get said top prize
Come to think of it... many gambling games give consellation prize such as tissues, ect (admittedly, less euro/american gambling, but its common in Japan)
Thus even if you get a 100fm token, its still gambling despite the fact you got something - You aimed for the top prize but got a consellation, thats all.
***
Basically the only way the 'lobi is the point of the box therefore not gambling' argument could work is
1. Lockbox promos focused on the lobi, not the other items
2. The lockbox had a set lobi amount (as yes, we're even gambling on the amount of lobi we recieve)
3. All prizes are equal odds
4. Congratulation flyovers are for recieving lobi, not the so called 'bonus' prize
Considering I doubt any of these points could be fufilled theres only one thing lockboxes as they are can be catagorised as:
Easy enough to change them from gamble boxes and still have people spending large sums on keys.
1st Remove the main "prize" from the boxes and stick it in the lobi store, advertise it as a limited time promo and charge more lobi for it than the regular lobi store ships.
2nd Change the boxes so that they all give the exact same amount of lobi.
3rd Advertise the other content you get in the boxes as "random bonus gifts" rather than prizes.
Doing that will remove the "gamble" from the boxes as players will now be opening them for the lobi.
Yeah, ok, but while they might have a noble goal, I suspect that practical realities will be more of an influence on how it ends up in the end than noble sentiments.
The #1 thing about making something a law is you have to write it down on paper, and people then ignore what you WANTED it to do and do what you wrote instead of what you wanted to happen.
It *is* already written down, the laws are in place, there's just new evidence which may make authorities reconsider how to apply them to the specific case of lockboxes or similar.
Maybe consider it a bit like a court trial. It is functionally different but the gist is: we have law or regulation X, person 1 thinks it may be violated, pros and cons are being considered, now there's a decision to make.
It should also be mentioned though, that it is very important in German courts (this is not in one as of now, so I don't know whether it applies on this agency) what the context of a law it and what it wants to convey, and while actual wording of course matters so that laypersons can capture the gist, as much as that is possible with legalese, in cases of doubt the actual intention will often prevail over splitting semantics. One of the (lower) tenets of German law roughly translates to "a wrong description doesn't hurt", meaning: if all included parties are agreeing what was meant or should understand it if not at all incapable or fueled by bad will, this will overrule the wording. It mostly applies to private contracts with wrong descriptors, but also extended to law in quite a few cases.
Actually, I doubt it. I imagine they will just block access from Germany and not even bat an eye. Plenty of other countries to do business in.
Germany is quite a huge market, so STO may easily survive but will certainly bat an eye or two. Also there is a looming danger of European Union harmonization in things like this in the background, which may affect other markets as well.
Once again, this is what parents are for. If you really reqire a government to do this for you, you probably shouldn't be having children in the first place.
Maybe to explain the German mindset: you cannot have surveillance on what your children do 24/7. And it is absolutely impossible to monitor everything they are doing on the net unless you sit behind them all the time and preferrably have a laptop to double check information. So one day mistakes will happen to help the children learn. This is all normal and well. But these mistakes should not have too grave consequences, and these mistakes should not be facilitated by predatory means because it is too easy. By the way, not only children should be protected, but other people as well. After all, we all make mistakes, and it may cost us, and we should have to face the consequences, but making a living out of people too easily fooled is not wanted.
Of course some parents do have an almost 24/7 surveillance going. One day their children will turn 18 and then they won't suddenly be responsible adults who know how the world works and can get along on their own. They may already meet their limits when going to buy flour at the supermarket, or trying to ride a bus on their own.
Children need some freedom to develop, they also need some time away from constant control, but there still needs to be some safety cushion if things go awry so they won't e. g. have debts for life when leaving home. We don't like "dog eat dog" as much.
This all to explain the idea behind protection laws, I am not arguing that Cryptic is guilty of any of these things. And as sophlogimo has pointed out, neither your nor my opinion actually matter and will be considered at all. This discussion is more about understanding what's going on and what might happen or not. Disagreeing with it being good will not matter at all.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
A scape goat, is someone who is wrongly given the blame for something they haven't done. This entire issue of LockBoxes, was brought up by some dude in Hawaii. It's been brought to Global attention, and it will now have Global Impacts. Do you no understand that. You clearly don't understand what 'recuse' means, or you wouldn't have directed a comment to me, demanding that I make a response.
I am using the term correctly
No, you are not...
because you are blaming him for the potential legislation on the issue of lootboxes in Germany.
No, I am not. I'm not blaming him for the impacts to Germany specifically, but the impacts Globally. Re-read the text which you quoted. Glow-Buh-Lee. Do you understand what 'globally' means? Yes, I did cite Germany and Belgium as examples of countries which could potentially be affected by an EU decision. Not a study conducted by the University of Hamburg, but potential changes to European Legislation as a Whole. Another reason why I mentioned Germany (because you clearly missed it the other times I mentioned it) is because there is a significant amount of German players. Germany is clearly big market for this game. Losing out on a big market, will not do Cryptic any financial favors.
And given that the guy in Hawaii (I actually can't remember the name which was in the article without checking) is the name on the headline for what has become Global News, it is entirely fair to view him as the figurehead for this action. If lock boxes are outlawed, he will be praised as the Champion of the Cause, yes? So it's only fair that the consequences of this action, fall at his feet as well...
Now, if you've quite finished your attempts at diminishment through projection, sophistically trying to put words into my mouth, and replying to half a quote to give yourself the opportunity to disingenuously respond out of context (and as you have still failed to add anything constructive to this topic) you and I are done on this exchange of words.
That **** in Hawaii that started this nonsense, potentially has a lot to answer for
You mean the **** EA pulled.
Which people were, and are, perfectly free to not engage with.
While I would be willing to accept that EA was taking the TRIBBLE with the extent to which they were gouging their customers, there was no need for the legal actions or attempts to change legislations. Those customers still have the choice to continue to engage, or to disengage.
To put it in another context: I don't smoke. I think it's an unhealthy, and fairly disgusting habit, which I have had a life.ong aversion to. But I'm not trying to change the laws to stop people accessing tobacco products, because I respect their freedom of choice.
If people make poor choices, so be it. Such is the price for freedom of choice. Not every choice will be a good one, and there will be consequences...
"...Let them pass that law, and they'll have you in chains with a number burned into your forehead!" - Eric Lehnsherr
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I would like to thank y'all for keeping this discussion mostly civil and even tempered. It is known that the subject of lockboxes is a sensitive one. So, please, continue the conversation civilly. Thank you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Yes, and we know you just can't help yourself but to respond, or just walk away and not engage as you claim you want to do. As I've told you before, people can respond to anything posted in these forums. You cannot dictate that they not quote or respond to your posts, even after you've decided that you no longer want to be part of the conversation. You cannot control their actions, only your own. If you no longer want to be part of the conversation, then don't be. But don't try and assume some moral high ground, because you feel you're being baited and dragged against your will back into the discussion, and stop reporting people for flaming and trolling for doing so.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Actually, I doubt it. I imagine they will just block access from Germany and not even bat an eye. Plenty of other countries to do business in.
Yeah, that's a big no. Here's a link to the German side of the STO community. They have their own CM. His handle is Nevandon. They have a talented set of Foundry authors too. We may not hear from them a whole lot but there is a language barrier (mostly on our end. My German fleet mates are bilingual.)
Cryptic isn't going to toss them aside without a thought or care to maintain the exact qualities of the current lock box, if this should in fact lead anywhere. As has been pointed out, this is not a German problem, their legislators are only the most recent in a long line to propose changes (the article did end with a reference to the US senate calling for a study...)
If loot boxes are reclassified in Germany then it will likely add some momentum to other loot box regulation efforts. If Cryptic delays then they'll probably be forced to deal with this problem later in other markets (ex. the US) having lopped off a section of customers in an unjustified shrug.
So, finding a solution (likely from the systems team on the lock box prize scheme, based on the exact legal definition that will be required for any loot box regulation) would be in their interest as soon as there is a crisis (not after.)
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Actually, I doubt it. I imagine they will just block access from Germany and not even bat an eye. Plenty of other countries to do business in.
Yeah, that's a big no. Here's a link to the German side of the STO community. They have their own CM. His handle is Nevandon. They have a talented set of Foundry authors too. We may not hear from them a whole lot but there is a language barrier (mostly on our end. My German fleet mates are all bilingual.)
Cryptic isn't going to toss them aside without a thought or care to maintain the exact qualities of the current lock box, if this should in fact lead anywhere. As has been pointed out, this is not a German problem, their legislators are only the most recent in a long line to propose changes (the article did end with a reference to the US senate calling for a study...)
If loot boxes are reclassified in Germany then it will likely add some momentum to other loot box regulation efforts. If Cryptic delays then they'll probably be forced to deal with this problem later in other markets (ex. the US) having lopped off a section of customers in an unjustified shrug.
So, finding a solution (likely from the systems team on the lock box prize scheme, based on the exact legal definition that will be required for any loot box regulation) would be in their interest as soon as there is a crisis (not after.)
^^^^ 100% this...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
That **** in Hawaii that started this nonsense, potentially has a lot to answer for
What do you expect? It's easier to blame someone else than blame yourself!...it's Cryptics...or EAs...or Biowares...or Blizzards...or Hi Rezs fault you emptied your bank account going for that grand prize...not your own.
1. "Well, that chocolate contained a lethal dose of dioxin, it's your fault you failed to read the ingredients and you lost your child." Correct and clear labeling and ensuring that items not suited for general consumption are not easily accessible is not a nanny state. It's just good sense.
2. A lot of the protests against something like EA's lockbox system was also that it meant if you didn't play the lockbox game, the game would not be very enjoyable and you would feel like some second class citizen. The legal reaction has less to do with that, but it's important to distinguish the various reasons of protest.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
In the case at hand, the concern is about protecting minors, not some puritanical urge. Children do have little self control, they need to be protected from those who would exploit this fact.
Once again, this is what parents are for. If you really reqire a government to do this for you, you probably shouldn't be having children in the first place.
Right. Kids buying game stuff with daddy's credit card is entirely the parets' fault for allowing it.
Those who would argue 'big money' can lobby their way out of this, are simply wrong. Germany isn't the USA. You can't buy legislation here (the way the content industry has been doing in America, for instance). And if you tried, you'd potentially be looking at some serious jail time. Same as where I live, in the Netherlands (adjacent to Germany). And gambling (with RL money) is strictly illegal to children under 18 years of age, to start with.
If Germany decides lock boxes are gambling, then Holland will soon follow suit (and by the time we do, it may already be a EU thing to begin with). So, Cryptic better take heed: It Is Going To Happen.
I am not all that pessimistic, though. Cryptic will simply have to make like a Borg, and adapt. Since lock box keys can be bought with EC too (which can be accumulated without spending a RL dime), all Cryptic really has to do, IMHO, is set all C-Store lock box key purchases to bound-to-account per default, for everyone, and then require people who want to buy keys from the C-Store to go thru a one-time age-verification process, to unlock the account-bound restriction on their account.
As others have argued before, though, it behooves Cryptic not to be lazy in this matter. If they have any wits about them, they best preempt the inevitable, and make some changes to the way lock box keys can be bought from the C-Store.
[...]Right. Kids buying game stuff with daddy's credit card is entirely the parets' fault for allowing it.
Who sais daddy allowed it? It is quite possible for gambling addictions to motivate kids into "borrowing" the card without the parents' knowledge.
But again: Irrelevant. The law is the law.
What he's getting at is that writing laws to prevent things that aren't the government's responsibility is dumb and wasteful. Another example is writing a law the automakers need to ensure that underage/untrained individuals don't operate heavy machinery... Sure it might sound like a good idea, but realistically it's ridiculously expensive, and pointless.
And it actually is down to Cryptic/PWE or other companies, at least to many European laws, to prohibit minors "accidentally" being able to do adult stuff. Just saying "it is the parents' responsibility alone" is not cutting it. Unless they exhibit what is called "grobe Fahrlässigkeit" (gross negligence) transactions of minors are completely invalid as an example (which could easily open another can of worms here, so let's stop it).
Cryptic/PWE would be required to set up reasonable safeguards against underaged children gaining access to the gambling system of the game. Reasonable, not absolute (aka, not like the weak age-verification of STEAM, letting you just type in your birthday before seeing an R-rated vid, but something stronger). Probably something along the lines of sending them a photostat of your ID (or a selfie, with you holding up your ID).
What he's getting at is that writing laws to prevent things that aren't the government's responsibility is dumb and wasteful. Another example is writing a law the automakers need to ensure that underage/untrained individuals don't operate heavy machinery...
LOL. Because that is precisely what governments already do: they don't let underaged kids drive cars. Nor allow them to operate heavy machinery. Or drink alcohol below the age of 21. Or visit p*rn sites. Or have sex under the age of 17 even.
Whether governments are particularly effective in enforcing these type of things is another matter. But governments are, IMHO, entirely justified in trying to protect children.
Comments
Here we are in agreement.
Again, it is NOT the government which is active here.
Gambling is quite healthy in the US or are you unaware of the nearly nationwide lotteries, horse tracks, dog tracks, Indian Casinos, Las Vegas, etc. ?
I assume the stupid lockboxes make a lot more money than subscribers + c-store only or else they'd not do it.
The #1 thing about making something a law is you have to write it down on paper, and people then ignore what you WANTED it to do and do what you wrote instead of what you wanted to happen.
My character Tsin'xing
You mean the TRIBBLE EA pulled.
But it IS a gamble
Look at all the lockbox promos - Do they make a point the Lobi is the prize and the rest is a bonus?
Of course not - The promos are all about the 'bonuses' as the main prize
or put another way...
Casinos in Vegas have 'comps' - basically each dollar you gamble, you get x back in points towards free drinks, shows, accomodations, drugs, hookers... the usual Vegas stuff (well, likely not the last two..) Why? As they figured out psychologically if humans lose, they lose the will to play... thus the comp points are a method of 'winning' regardless that keeps them playing
Knowing this, does that mean playing blackjack for comp points isn't gambling?
or another way.. would anyone play blackjack to get said comp points?
and if, say; they could play blackjack for comp points but there was NO payoff, would they?
Considering this; you can consider Lobi to be STOs version of these comp points - You get them regardless if you win or lose, and x points can be recouped for various items - and even if one proclaims they are lockboxxing for lobi the truth is... they know no matter what, they might get the top prize while doing so - thus the focus is not on the Lobi but the so called 'bonuses' potentially gained
So to summarise; comp points=/=lobi, both gained as a psychological renumeration to promote, yup
GAMBLING - no matter what, the simple undeniable truth is lobi is designed akin to comp points; aggresively using the human mentality of 'winning when losing' to promote futher purchases, lobi basically being the 'free $30 show after spending $100 bucks on roulette'
Now to address " No matter what you ALWAYS get something (Lobi,random gear, ship etc. maybe not the shiney you want but you get something.) from them."
There are plenty of gambling systems that operate on varying payouts - be it slot machines, racing and a myrid of other gambling opportunites - but like lockboxes, you are always aiming for the top prize. Regardless if you get it or not, the fact is that is the point of the box structure and the fact the odds are so low to get said top prize
Come to think of it... many gambling games give consellation prize such as tissues, ect (admittedly, less euro/american gambling, but its common in Japan)
Thus even if you get a 100fm token, its still gambling despite the fact you got something - You aimed for the top prize but got a consellation, thats all.
***
Basically the only way the 'lobi is the point of the box therefore not gambling' argument could work is
1. Lockbox promos focused on the lobi, not the other items
2. The lockbox had a set lobi amount (as yes, we're even gambling on the amount of lobi we recieve)
3. All prizes are equal odds
4. Congratulation flyovers are for recieving lobi, not the so called 'bonus' prize
Considering I doubt any of these points could be fufilled theres only one thing lockboxes as they are can be catagorised as:
GAMBLING
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
1st Remove the main "prize" from the boxes and stick it in the lobi store, advertise it as a limited time promo and charge more lobi for it than the regular lobi store ships.
2nd Change the boxes so that they all give the exact same amount of lobi.
3rd Advertise the other content you get in the boxes as "random bonus gifts" rather than prizes.
Doing that will remove the "gamble" from the boxes as players will now be opening them for the lobi.
It *is* already written down, the laws are in place, there's just new evidence which may make authorities reconsider how to apply them to the specific case of lockboxes or similar.
Maybe consider it a bit like a court trial. It is functionally different but the gist is: we have law or regulation X, person 1 thinks it may be violated, pros and cons are being considered, now there's a decision to make.
It should also be mentioned though, that it is very important in German courts (this is not in one as of now, so I don't know whether it applies on this agency) what the context of a law it and what it wants to convey, and while actual wording of course matters so that laypersons can capture the gist, as much as that is possible with legalese, in cases of doubt the actual intention will often prevail over splitting semantics. One of the (lower) tenets of German law roughly translates to "a wrong description doesn't hurt", meaning: if all included parties are agreeing what was meant or should understand it if not at all incapable or fueled by bad will, this will overrule the wording. It mostly applies to private contracts with wrong descriptors, but also extended to law in quite a few cases.
Germany is quite a huge market, so STO may easily survive but will certainly bat an eye or two. Also there is a looming danger of European Union harmonization in things like this in the background, which may affect other markets as well.
Maybe to explain the German mindset: you cannot have surveillance on what your children do 24/7. And it is absolutely impossible to monitor everything they are doing on the net unless you sit behind them all the time and preferrably have a laptop to double check information. So one day mistakes will happen to help the children learn. This is all normal and well. But these mistakes should not have too grave consequences, and these mistakes should not be facilitated by predatory means because it is too easy. By the way, not only children should be protected, but other people as well. After all, we all make mistakes, and it may cost us, and we should have to face the consequences, but making a living out of people too easily fooled is not wanted.
Of course some parents do have an almost 24/7 surveillance going. One day their children will turn 18 and then they won't suddenly be responsible adults who know how the world works and can get along on their own. They may already meet their limits when going to buy flour at the supermarket, or trying to ride a bus on their own.
Children need some freedom to develop, they also need some time away from constant control, but there still needs to be some safety cushion if things go awry so they won't e. g. have debts for life when leaving home. We don't like "dog eat dog" as much.
This all to explain the idea behind protection laws, I am not arguing that Cryptic is guilty of any of these things. And as sophlogimo has pointed out, neither your nor my opinion actually matter and will be considered at all. This discussion is more about understanding what's going on and what might happen or not. Disagreeing with it being good will not matter at all.
No, you are not...
No, I am not. I'm not blaming him for the impacts to Germany specifically, but the impacts Globally. Re-read the text which you quoted. Glow-Buh-Lee. Do you understand what 'globally' means? Yes, I did cite Germany and Belgium as examples of countries which could potentially be affected by an EU decision. Not a study conducted by the University of Hamburg, but potential changes to European Legislation as a Whole. Another reason why I mentioned Germany (because you clearly missed it the other times I mentioned it) is because there is a significant amount of German players. Germany is clearly big market for this game. Losing out on a big market, will not do Cryptic any financial favors.
And given that the guy in Hawaii (I actually can't remember the name which was in the article without checking) is the name on the headline for what has become Global News, it is entirely fair to view him as the figurehead for this action. If lock boxes are outlawed, he will be praised as the Champion of the Cause, yes? So it's only fair that the consequences of this action, fall at his feet as well...
Now, if you've quite finished your attempts at diminishment through projection, sophistically trying to put words into my mouth, and replying to half a quote to give yourself the opportunity to disingenuously respond out of context (and as you have still failed to add anything constructive to this topic) you and I are done on this exchange of words.
Which people were, and are, perfectly free to not engage with.
While I would be willing to accept that EA was taking the TRIBBLE with the extent to which they were gouging their customers, there was no need for the legal actions or attempts to change legislations. Those customers still have the choice to continue to engage, or to disengage.
To put it in another context: I don't smoke. I think it's an unhealthy, and fairly disgusting habit, which I have had a life.ong aversion to. But I'm not trying to change the laws to stop people accessing tobacco products, because I respect their freedom of choice.
If people make poor choices, so be it. Such is the price for freedom of choice. Not every choice will be a good one, and there will be consequences...
"...Let them pass that law, and they'll have you in chains with a number burned into your forehead!" - Eric Lehnsherr
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I would like to thank y'all for keeping this discussion mostly civil and even tempered. It is known that the subject of lockboxes is a sensitive one. So, please, continue the conversation civilly. Thank you.
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"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Yeah, that's a big no. Here's a link to the German side of the STO community. They have their own CM. His handle is Nevandon. They have a talented set of Foundry authors too. We may not hear from them a whole lot but there is a language barrier (mostly on our end. My German fleet mates are bilingual.)
https://www.arcgames.com/de/forums/stode#/categories
Cryptic isn't going to toss them aside without a thought or care to maintain the exact qualities of the current lock box, if this should in fact lead anywhere. As has been pointed out, this is not a German problem, their legislators are only the most recent in a long line to propose changes (the article did end with a reference to the US senate calling for a study...)
If loot boxes are reclassified in Germany then it will likely add some momentum to other loot box regulation efforts. If Cryptic delays then they'll probably be forced to deal with this problem later in other markets (ex. the US) having lopped off a section of customers in an unjustified shrug.
So, finding a solution (likely from the systems team on the lock box prize scheme, based on the exact legal definition that will be required for any loot box regulation) would be in their interest as soon as there is a crisis (not after.)
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2. A lot of the protests against something like EA's lockbox system was also that it meant if you didn't play the lockbox game, the game would not be very enjoyable and you would feel like some second class citizen. The legal reaction has less to do with that, but it's important to distinguish the various reasons of protest.
Those who would argue 'big money' can lobby their way out of this, are simply wrong. Germany isn't the USA. You can't buy legislation here (the way the content industry has been doing in America, for instance). And if you tried, you'd potentially be looking at some serious jail time. Same as where I live, in the Netherlands (adjacent to Germany). And gambling (with RL money) is strictly illegal to children under 18 years of age, to start with.
If Germany decides lock boxes are gambling, then Holland will soon follow suit (and by the time we do, it may already be a EU thing to begin with). So, Cryptic better take heed: It Is Going To Happen.
I am not all that pessimistic, though. Cryptic will simply have to make like a Borg, and adapt. Since lock box keys can be bought with EC too (which can be accumulated without spending a RL dime), all Cryptic really has to do, IMHO, is set all C-Store lock box key purchases to bound-to-account per default, for everyone, and then require people who want to buy keys from the C-Store to go thru a one-time age-verification process, to unlock the account-bound restriction on their account.
As others have argued before, though, it behooves Cryptic not to be lazy in this matter. If they have any wits about them, they best preempt the inevitable, and make some changes to the way lock box keys can be bought from the C-Store.
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Cryptic/PWE would be required to set up reasonable safeguards against underaged children gaining access to the gambling system of the game. Reasonable, not absolute (aka, not like the weak age-verification of STEAM, letting you just type in your birthday before seeing an R-rated vid, but something stronger). Probably something along the lines of sending them a photostat of your ID (or a selfie, with you holding up your ID).
LOL. Because that is precisely what governments already do: they don't let underaged kids drive cars.
Whether governments are particularly effective in enforcing these type of things is another matter. But governments are, IMHO, entirely justified in trying to protect children.