These new Klingons are cool. They would beat the **** out of the Klingons from the other shows. Except for Worf and Martag, those two were legit bada$$es.
Old Klingons were better. They had a bit of an unoriginal design, but what thy lacked in looks, they made up for with legitimate character and not being made of rubber.
I agree the Enterprise (TV) Series, Khan+, and TNG Klingon's consistent across the breadth of the entire timeline except TOS (60's) when makeup wasn't as good was explained by Enterprise as Augment Virus.
Regardless... I agree with you disqord I think Old or Klingon's as they've mostly been portrayed were far better. I think they would have been better served with several new Klingon uniforms based on the House they serve within even if there are common elements.
It's almost horrible they made this drastic change to a familiar look which is going to be difficult to explain why they look one way on Enterprise, then in Discovery appear completely different, then we have Augment Klingon's in ToS, then with Khan and the Movies / TNG they back as they were on Enterprise.
It's good to remember that each star trek show is different and has different stuff in it.
People seem shocked and appalled that they are discovering new stuff about star trek in the show "Star Trek: Discovery" and it doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Cant you read the title of the show?
Your argument would hold water, if it was a matter of 'discovering' a separate ethnicity or subgroup, rather than being a 'complete and total replacement' as ST:D's own showrunners stated. (they were actually caught by surprise when people objected, as evidenced in the ST:LV panel discussions that made it onto the web.)
as it stands, your argument doesn't hold water. It's a full-on replacement, not the uncovering of something intended to be 'new'.
Have you ever seen star trek before? There's always different stuff between different shows.
Trills don't have spots, they have facial ridges, and nobody knows anything about them.
Then they don't have facial ridges, they have spots, and people know all about them since they are famous.
Romulans don't have ridges in their heads, then they do.
Cardassians wear helmets and have moustaches, then they don't.
Ferengis are one thing, then suddenly they are completely different.
Klingons look one way, then they look completely different.
Bajorans have weird eyebrows, then suddenly they dont any more.
Borg are one thing, then they are something different.
Data is a special unique thing, then any computer can be just like data.
This, that, this, that, this, that.
Welcome to star trek!
But it's just shocking, shocking! That Star Trek Discovery has new stuff for your to discover.
These new Klingons are cool. They would beat the **** out of the Klingons from the other shows. Except for Worf and Martag, those two were legit bada$$es.
Old Klingons were better. They had a bit of an unoriginal design, but what thy lacked in looks, they made up for with legitimate character and not being made of rubber.
I agree the Enterprise (TV) Series, Khan+, and TNG Klingon's consistent across the breadth of the entire timeline except TOS (60's) when makeup wasn't as good was explained by Enterprise as Augment Virus.
Regardless... I agree with you disqord I think Old or Klingon's as they've mostly been portrayed were far better. I think they would have been better served with several new Klingon uniforms based on the House they serve within even if there are common elements.
It's almost horrible they made this drastic change to a familiar look which is going to be difficult to explain why they look one way on Enterprise, then in Discovery appear completely different, then we have Augment Klingon's in ToS, then with Khan and the Movies / TNG they back as they were on Enterprise.
It's good to remember that each star trek show is different and has different stuff in it.
People seem shocked and appalled that they are discovering new stuff about star trek in the show "Star Trek: Discovery" and it doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Cant you read the title of the show?
Your argument would hold water, if it was a matter of 'discovering' a separate ethnicity or subgroup, rather than being a 'complete and total replacement' as ST:D's own showrunners stated. (they were actually caught by surprise when people objected, as evidenced in the ST:LV panel discussions that made it onto the web.)
as it stands, your argument doesn't hold water. It's a full-on replacement, not the uncovering of something intended to be 'new'.
Have you ever seen star trek before? There's always different stuff between different shows.
Trills don't have spots, they have facial ridges, and nobody knows anything about them.
Then they don't have facial ridges, they have spots, and people know all about them since they are famous.
Romulans don't have ridges in their heads, then they do.
Cardassians wear helmets and have moustaches, then they don't.
Ferengis are one thing, then suddenly they are completely different.
Klingons look one way, then they look completely different.
Bajorans have weird eyebrows, then suddenly they dont any more.
Borg are one thing, then they are something different.
Data is a special unique thing, then any computer can be just like data.
This, that, this, that, this, that.
Welcome to star trek!
But it's just shocking, shocking! That Star Trek Discovery has new stuff for your to discover.
Helmets and moustaches and eyebrows are grooming issues, not major shifts in biology, the 'romulan ridges' are a haircut issue, Ferengi biology didn't change, just their politics, and that was mainly because they were kind of a joke when they were introduced, and the borg thing was a completely stupid move by a writer who didn't 'get' them in one of the craptastic TNG movies, but it did get us some nice T&A with Seven of Nine *(necessary at the time to save Voyager from the ratings ash-heap).
The shift between TOS and TNG klingons was explained on-screen, and to a certain extent, they at least used enough pseudoscientific **** to make it somewhat palatable.
but this time, the change was explicitly replacing all of those prior Klingon appearances.
your attitude mirrors the showrunners there- "We felt like it and it's not a big deal and why are people annoyed by this it's not a big deal!!"
We can also look at how "OFTEN" those previous appearances happened before things were changed. The eyebrow th ing with Bajorans didn't survive past Ro Laren's second appearance, facial hair on Cardies is a grooming thing and may tie into local fashion, (and only happened in 2 episodes early on), Ferengi society underwent change 'on screen' throughout Deep Space Nine, but it was evolutionary changes and fit with the capitalistic society as described in their first appearance (one of the reasons the "Yankee Traders" were successful, was their ability to adapt to markets).
Klingons...
looked one way for a few appearances in TOS, then looked another way for 20-plus years of first-run television, including one of the most iconic characters in the entire IP (mister Worf), a specific look, specific biology, for over twenty years, extending into four series total, over a dozen movies, etc. etc.
Worf, in particular, has more screen-time than Spock. (or vulcans in general) so...what about a nice updated 'look' for Vulcans, hmmm? we can give them big, black eyes and gray skin and faerie wings, because obviously they're alien, so let's make 'em alien, right?? you know, big headed GRAY alien.
of course not. That would be stupid.
ST:D's team spent a lot of time, money and effort to make record-cover/skateboard-art "Klingons" that look badass in still photos, but once the image is in motion, they're slow, arthritic, and ridiculous,both in their inability to express emotions, and their inability to move or act. The art department made "Alien" weapons that are completely and totally impractical, even impossible to use effectively, but would look like what was "awesum" on the cover of some 80s hair-metal record sleeve.
all while studiously removing everything that made Klingons iconic from the species. Instead of Mercurial, passionate, aggressive, blunt, 'kick me if you dare' warriors, they gave us ritualistic, slow moving paste-slug Ork wannabees.
its called Star Trek DISCOVERY you are DISCOVERING new things about star trek how hard is this to figure out man?
What, that the showrunners are idiots? That the art department can spend a lot of money to make something boring?? Help me out here, what am I supposed to be 'discovering'??
New things about star trek you didn't know before, for example about how klingons look and act
except these don't look, or act, like Klingons. They speak the right language, but everything else is completely off-and why would I WANT to discover these? they're boring, clumsy and incompetent.
^^ 100% agreed. These are humans in a gorilla suit; aka, 'masks.' (Which was funny for Pizza the Hutt, where you could see the holes for the human eyes: but there it was *meant* to be funny).
What is there to discover? that at some point before Kor became a speaking role, the Klingons were incompetent, lemming-like figures armed by idiots and led by an arthritic moron?
I'm not passing judgement here. Just like the TOS Klingons, they can add them as an appearance option for Klingons. I tend to RP when I can here. I've ran in to klingons that are insults to klingons. I've ran in to those that play ridgeless ones, i.e. their family adapted to the augment virus. Ones that play the more stereotypical klingons. And those like me, that play the more thoughtful klingons.
The ritualistic nature is present in all of these. It's comes with the lore. So it isn't to far fetched that some klingon houses would be more ritualistic than others. That is normal.
The main thing that irks me here, is the appearance. While I can live with it, it still begs a coherent explanation. The differences in appearance between houses, I can run with that to. But with their cloistered attitude, I can't help but think that the overall difference may be a product of in-breeding. Which lends a bit more credibility to the differences in how they look between houses, and other klingons, than the designs half-assed explanantion. You know, trying to breed the perfect klingon so to speak. Which we also know, to much in-breeding does cause serious health and mental problems, as well as genetic deformities. If you look at it from this angle, it kind of makes more sense.
I already explained what is going to happen, the thing that the Discovery is working on is going to go haywire and the Klingons will be mutated by it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What is there to discover? that at some point before Kor became a speaking role, the Klingons were incompetent, lemming-like figures armed by idiots and led by an arthritic moron?
I'm not passing judgement here. Just like the TOS Klingons, they can add them as an appearance option for Klingons. I tend to RP when I can here. I've ran in to klingons that are insults to klingons. I've ran in to those that play ridgeless ones, i.e. their family adapted to the augment virus. Ones that play the more stereotypical klingons. And those like me, that play the more thoughtful klingons.
The ritualistic nature is present in all of these. It's comes with the lore. So it isn't to far fetched that some klingon houses would be more ritualistic than others. That is normal.
The main thing that irks me here, is the appearance. While I can live with it, it still begs a coherent explanation. The differences in appearance between houses, I can run with that to. But with their cloistered attitude, I can't help but think that the overall difference may be a product of in-breeding. Which lends a bit more credibility to the differences in how they look between houses, and other klingons, than the designs half-assed explanantion. You know, trying to breed the perfect klingon so to speak. Which we also know, to much in-breeding does cause serious health and mental problems, as well as genetic deformities. If you look at it from this angle, it kind of makes more sense.
if they used THAT explanation, or a variation of it, it wouldn't be a replacement, and it WOULD be something to "Discover". but they didn't and they won't.
They really don't have to if you put the pieces together.
Cloistered and unaffected by the augment virus. This means they've been segregated from the other klingons and species for a while now. By doing this, they've also limited themselves as to who they can mate with. Their archaic manner of dress and highly ritualistic nature makes me think, they're still stuck at the beginning of the rise of the warrior caste. Which this came about, sometime after Kahless the Unforgettable left Qo'nos. If I had to hazard a guess, maybe two or three hundred years after Kahless left. We have to use the Klingon calendar here, so we have to take into account that it's longer. So, figure 1000 Earth standard years ago is when the Warrior caste rose to power among the klingons.
Now from here, we have to take in to account that Klingon children reach maturity faster than other species. They reach maturity at the same time a human child reaches about 8-9 years old. Using that means a new generation is born at a minimum of every 10 years. This means in that time of separation from the other klingons, there is a maximum of 100 generations. That's a lot of room for genetic differences to become readily apparent, resulting in the klingons we see in Discovery.
No explanation is needed. The low point of enterprise was the contrived nonsense for why the klingons look different.
They look different because different shows are made at different times, by different people with different budgets.
Its also why TNG stuff looks different from TOS stuff and different from stuff made even more recently.
Different actors can play the same role in a piece without changing the story.
except that the role is completely different in every particular except language and a few names. and that the showrunners already said that THIS is what all the Klingons look like now-and have always/will always look like going forward, minus some clothing differences.
then that's what klingons look like now, its not the first time this has happened with klingons in star trek you know.
Imagine that... something new to discover! In Star Trek Discovery!!!!!
Well, up until TOS and the Augment Virus. Then we already know what they look like there and after. But that also doesn't explain why they look different than the ENT Klingons. You know the Klingons that existed before Discovery.
It's better to just look at them like the Romulans and Vulcans. Mostly the same, but with some genetic and appearance differences.
all this "not my Star Trek".... "stuff".... reminds me of something this woman said about why she quit acting:
I forget the exact wording, but it was something about how the people who liked the movies she was in liked the characters she portrayed more than they actually liked her. So when she had to move on to playing other characters the "fans" lost interest.
So can you tell me the woman's name?
I'll give you a hint, she's less famous for this role:
than for this one:
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
All i know about the new super klingons is that they look pretty awesome and I want them in sto as a playable option.
We could combine two threads here.
Put the Discovery-era Klingon appearance in the dilithium store for 2 million dil. Maybe even 3 million, as it will be a higher quality appearance unlock than the existing items. It will be an amazing dilithium sink!
They look like scaly gorillas and Black Face gone wrong.
Only reason I thought this is because they themselves went out of their way to bring in that one "white" Klingon in to show how inclusive they were and how things would be if roles were reversed in real life.
You know, "white privilege" and "Black Oppression"...
So I just found it terribly distasteful that they decided to make their "Black" representatives look like scaly apes.
Monkeys and apes have been used in the past to show a Stereotypical racist interpretation of black people. Big noses, big lips, big brow line.. the new Klingon design has all the hallmarks of racist interpretation.
They look like scaly gorillas and Black Face gone wrong.
Only reason I thought this is because they themselves went out of their way to bring in that one "white" Klingon in to show how inclusive they were and how things would be if roles were reversed in real life.
You know, "white privilege" and "Black Oppression"...
So I just found it terribly distasteful that they decided to make their "Black" representatives look like scaly apes.
Monkeys and apes have been used in the past to show a Stereotypical racist interpretation of black people. Big noses, big lips, big brow line.. the new Klingon design has all the hallmarks of racist interpretation.
Way to be progressive TRIBBLE. smh.
come to think of it, you're right. The design is definitely point for point designed to scare closeted racist white people-you know,t he ones who make a deal about supporting 'Black lives matter' but wouldn't invite one over to their house for dinner unless they're a rich television, sports, or music figure.
perhaps the design is closeted racism? or maybe emotional projection?
Could be emotional projection, maybe.. I dunno pat.
But all I know is if I was the producer and knew we were going to do an allegory on racism the last thing I'd do is use costume design that incorporates many stereotypical racist attributes.
Probably would've fired the guy who came up with the idea.
Comments
^^ 100% agreed. These are humans in a gorilla suit; aka, 'masks.' (Which was funny for Pizza the Hutt, where you could see the holes for the human eyes: but there it was *meant* to be funny).
F* you, Cryptic, for still not having fixed the edit bug!
I'm not passing judgement here. Just like the TOS Klingons, they can add them as an appearance option for Klingons. I tend to RP when I can here. I've ran in to klingons that are insults to klingons. I've ran in to those that play ridgeless ones, i.e. their family adapted to the augment virus. Ones that play the more stereotypical klingons. And those like me, that play the more thoughtful klingons.
The ritualistic nature is present in all of these. It's comes with the lore. So it isn't to far fetched that some klingon houses would be more ritualistic than others. That is normal.
The main thing that irks me here, is the appearance. While I can live with it, it still begs a coherent explanation. The differences in appearance between houses, I can run with that to. But with their cloistered attitude, I can't help but think that the overall difference may be a product of in-breeding. Which lends a bit more credibility to the differences in how they look between houses, and other klingons, than the designs half-assed explanantion. You know, trying to breed the perfect klingon so to speak. Which we also know, to much in-breeding does cause serious health and mental problems, as well as genetic deformities. If you look at it from this angle, it kind of makes more sense.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
They really don't have to if you put the pieces together.
Cloistered and unaffected by the augment virus. This means they've been segregated from the other klingons and species for a while now. By doing this, they've also limited themselves as to who they can mate with. Their archaic manner of dress and highly ritualistic nature makes me think, they're still stuck at the beginning of the rise of the warrior caste. Which this came about, sometime after Kahless the Unforgettable left Qo'nos. If I had to hazard a guess, maybe two or three hundred years after Kahless left. We have to use the Klingon calendar here, so we have to take into account that it's longer. So, figure 1000 Earth standard years ago is when the Warrior caste rose to power among the klingons.
Now from here, we have to take in to account that Klingon children reach maturity faster than other species. They reach maturity at the same time a human child reaches about 8-9 years old. Using that means a new generation is born at a minimum of every 10 years. This means in that time of separation from the other klingons, there is a maximum of 100 generations. That's a lot of room for genetic differences to become readily apparent, resulting in the klingons we see in Discovery.
Well, up until TOS and the Augment Virus. Then we already know what they look like there and after. But that also doesn't explain why they look different than the ENT Klingons. You know the Klingons that existed before Discovery.
It's better to just look at them like the Romulans and Vulcans. Mostly the same, but with some genetic and appearance differences.
I forget the exact wording, but it was something about how the people who liked the movies she was in liked the characters she portrayed more than they actually liked her. So when she had to move on to playing other characters the "fans" lost interest.
So can you tell me the woman's name?
I'll give you a hint, she's less famous for this role:
than for this one:
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Supposedly look like Orcs (??)
Maybe they will remake Ferengis with hair.
And large feet. They will look like Hobbits. ::::giggles::::
Edit: Oh wait.... we haven't even started in with culture stuffs....
Honorable Warriors is to Zenophobic Terrorists
As Skilled Profiteers is to ?????
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Shirley Temple
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Honest Politicians.
Put the Discovery-era Klingon appearance in the dilithium store for 2 million dil. Maybe even 3 million, as it will be a higher quality appearance unlock than the existing items. It will be an amazing dilithium sink!
They look like scaly gorillas and Black Face gone wrong.
Only reason I thought this is because they themselves went out of their way to bring in that one "white" Klingon in to show how inclusive they were and how things would be if roles were reversed in real life.
You know, "white privilege" and "Black Oppression"...
So I just found it terribly distasteful that they decided to make their "Black" representatives look like scaly apes.
Monkeys and apes have been used in the past to show a Stereotypical racist interpretation of black people. Big noses, big lips, big brow line.. the new Klingon design has all the hallmarks of racist interpretation.
Way to be progressive TRIBBLE. smh.
Could be emotional projection, maybe.. I dunno pat.
But all I know is if I was the producer and knew we were going to do an allegory on racism the last thing I'd do is use costume design that incorporates many stereotypical racist attributes.
Probably would've fired the guy who came up with the idea.