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[STOPC] The Competitive Wargames Reputation

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,584 Community Moderator
    edited April 2017
    dumas13 wrote: »
    I'll be breeding birds on Risa or waiting on the next Breach/Mirror/whatever event. Some players go to a bad headspace when competing against each other. I've had my share of rage over PUG losing streaks and it's not worth it when I have to wait half an hour to go again. How are the rewards determined? I hope the losing side at least qualifies for the daily bonus marks, though that barely makes it worth playing.

    The way I hope it plays out is both teams get the same base reward, but the incentive for winning is an added bonus, say... an extra mark box, extra crafting mats... that sort of thing. Otherwise the new queues will be just as empty as the existing PvP queues.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • haxxsaw#9362 haxxsaw Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    So just so we're clear, the majority of the competitive queues that are coming with this update and grant marks for this reputation don't actually include direct PVP. We're calling them Competitive PVE because they're competitions to complete in game tasks, like the Binary Circuit queue we announced this morning. It will definitely be possible to get the marks you need for these rewards without having to step into the PVP world.

    I login to play a game and escape real world stuff. I seriously do not want to spend it trying to "complete" with anyone else.
  • snix#6028 snix Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I agree with the comments that dropping a buff to the victor on a kill is not the way to create a tense battle. The suggestion to drop a buff for your team WHEN killed is the right call. Turn the tide and prevent the 15-0 match results that are all too common.

    In addition, the Tier 5 'Forced Challenge' click power of forcing movement on players doesn't really fit the Star Trek setting. Tractor beams and gravity wells, but not a 'turn to face attacker'. I would suggest a replacement that aligns with the PvP setting:

    Forced Challenge: While active, you and your target may not gain the benefit of Immunity powers (including things like Continuity).

    You are exposing yourself to a final outcome, while ensuring your own efforts will be felt by your target.

    -snix
  • officerbatman81officerbatman81 Member Posts: 2,761 Arc User
    Best thing about this rep is the gif at the bottom.

    Can the other reps be updated to include the heavy escort weapon? Secondary deflectors? 4th ship piece? Kit modules?
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    if they still haven't given the omega, romulan and nukara sets warp cores after 5 years, they won't retroactively add any other piece of equipment to older sets either​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

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    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


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  • captainoblivouscaptainoblivous Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User

    I think the 'i must have everything' compulsion will outweigh the PvPTSD that many people suffer from.

    Indeed. Though in my case, it's down to genuine ptsd, not an allergy. ;)
    I need a beer.

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,487 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    Looks like the first reputation which i will put aside without bothering to play has arrived.
    Perhaps if those rep marks can be made in warzones then i will consider it, but being forced into PVP or competitive PVE (Read PVP) is a bridge too far.

    If the devs are smart, or smarten up after a while, these marks will be added to red alerts like all the others.

    No, if they are smart they will keep the marks locked behind pvp queues to incentivize people to participate in them.

    I think the 'i must have everything' compulsion will outweigh the PvPTSD that many people suffer from.

    We don't know the exact stats for the gear yet, but in general it looks pretty lackluster. You also seem to be under the impression that the developers care about PVP.
    This is merely tossing a bone to the console community where PVP traditionally is more coveted and since the PC is further ahead in the story and seasons the changes are tested here.

    The devs care about metrics more than catering to the small PVP community and thus they will add the marks for this new reputation to warzones and red alerts sooner or later.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    This is not the same as Forum, Exchange, or Trade Channel PVP.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    The armor set looks nice, but unfortunately, I think I won't be able to obtain it.
    Progression
    Increasing your standing with Competitive Wargames will require the submission of Competitive Marks.
    These marks can be earned by completing PvP and Competitive PvE matches.

    Am I interpreting this correctly, that Choice of Marks queues won't provide Competitive marks, meaning that it is mandatory to do CPvE queues to acquire them?
    I won't do PvP queues, so that's not even up for consideration.

    Also, it would be a reasonable assumption that you'll need the prize item from Competitive Queues (whatever it is) to requisition the items, like how you need Borg Neural Processors for Omega Reputation.
    And it also might be required to complete Queue optionals as well for additional tailor options.
    That also has me concerned, because the other team will no doubt be competing against you to get the optionals themselves.
    I really hope Cryptic has the common sense to not put some of those optionals in PvP Queues, that could definitely be an issue of contention!


    Honestly, I'm not a fan of CPvE, given how frustrating I found the Phoenix rocket event and the Competitive Race in Q's Winter Wonderland, I'm thinking it's something I'd best stay out of!
    I'm thinking this may be the first Reputation I ignore completely, because it's based on an activity I disapprove of strongly.
    No point wanting what can't be had, so to speak.


    As an aside, I think an armored helmet option should be provided for the new armor set visuals.
    Glass dome helmets are just too fragile from my point of view.
    See here for why:
    Death by broken helmet dome
    Yes, I know it doesn't really have an effect ingame, but I like fully armored helmets.
    I've rejected some armor sets simply because I couldn't get an armored helmet.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,679 Community Manager
    As a note, we've added the following paragraph to the Prevailing Regalia set, as we feel it explains things better:

    "Each piece in the Prevailing Regalia set has three different versions, flavored for Innervated (Damage), Bolstered (Support), and Fortified (Protection). These different items will have slightly different stats, depending on which version you obtain. Captains can mix and match each of these items and still receive the full set bonuses - for example, the Innervated Impulse Engines and Bolstered Deflector Array will provide the 'Well Rounded' bonus listed below when slotted on a ship. If you choose to obtain one version of an item, you will receive a discount on the other two. For example, obtaining the Fortified Warp Core will grant you a discount on the Innervated and Bolstered Warp Cores."
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I post again because people don't seem to be reading this in the blog: They say, "Assessed Stratagems can also be earned by participating in the Advanced and Elite versions of any queued event." Crystalline ISA etc...

    I predicted they would keep the marks to only the new missions. It's not unprecedented. But it doesn't usually last much more than a month.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,487 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I post again because people don't seem to be reading this in the blog: They say, "Assessed Stratagems can also be earned by participating in the Advanced and Elite versions of any queued event." Crystalline ISA etc...

    I predicted they would keep the marks to only the new missions. It's not unprecedented. But it doesn't usually last much more than a month.

    @sheldonlcooper
    Reading huh? It specifically says:
    Assessed Stratagems can also be earned by participating in the Advanced and Elite versions of any queued event which rewards Competitive Marks

    Edit:
    I hope they will move these and other elite marks away from the inventory similar to latinum.
    All those individual elite marks are beginning to take up a lot of inventory space.

    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    And if you recall in the last Breach Event if you ran it on Advanced or Elite, you DID NOT get the Elite Marks comensurate with the Mark type you selected. You only received Voth Cybernetic Implants. Borg Disconnected Advanced or Elite only gave the Ancient Power Cells even though you could select Omega, Voth, Delta, or Undine Marks. Their track record for doing so is not there.

    I hope you are correct, but clarity in News Blogs has never been their strongsuit.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • phrgphrg Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    Tried Ker'rat a year ago.

    After spending 5 minutes being insta-killed half a dozen times by KDF alpha strikes I left.

    In view of the new Rep I thought I'd revisit PVP.

    No change.

    After spending 5 minutes being insta-killed half a dozen times by KDF alpha strikes I left.

    I'll pop back and have a look in 2018.

    :/
  • discojerdiscojer Member Posts: 533 Arc User
    If you want to force people to do PVP, then you need to provide a reward that will make people who don't like PVP do it.

    I would suggest a ship

    Better yet, give up your dream of e-sports money and don't try to force people to PVP. E-sports and STO is just not gonna happen.
  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,026 Arc User
    Is it my imagination, or is the Obfuscated Strategist an attempt to make mines more useful? And we're seeing a new flavor of tetryon DEWs? Interesting.

    Also amused that the set pistol is referred to as a decompression pistol, and described as a mix of tetryon DEW and gauss weapon. Are the slugs somehow imbued with tetryon energy before firing, or are we dealing with what in WH40K would be termed a combi-weapon? The latter might actually make more sense given how the secondary fire works - that could be the slug magazine, handled like the Omega launcher.. and it's amusing that something like this is how I'd suggested a ways back in terms of how STO could implement projectile weapons beyond the TR-116 and Zefram's shotgun. Bonus nod: the fact that the 'magazine' has six shots. Now, all they need is to make an emote based on this...

    tumblr_od75n7fTml1tg07vxo1_400.gif

    I'm guessing that the new tetryon flavor will be available in infantry-friendly forms too - will they have unique models, or settle for a recolored version of the base tetryon weapon model? Keep in mind that this is separate from the actual appearance of their beams/pulses.
    snix#6028 wrote: »
    I agree with the comments that dropping a buff to the victor on a kill is not the way to create a tense battle. The suggestion to drop a buff for your team WHEN killed is the right call. Turn the tide and prevent the 15-0 match results that are all too common.
    Amusingly, the Call of Duty games did try something similar to this: deathstreaks (buffs applied to a particular player when they've been killed X number of times without getting a kill in between). Not a bad idea.
    In addition, the Tier 5 'Forced Challenge' click power of forcing movement on players doesn't really fit the Star Trek setting. Tractor beams and gravity wells, but not a 'turn to face attacker'. I would suggest a replacement that aligns with the PvP setting:

    Forced Challenge: While active, you and your target may not gain the benefit of Immunity powers (including things like Continuity).

    You are exposing yourself to a final outcome, while ensuring your own efforts will be felt by your target.
    You're right, it doesn't sound like it fits the setting (and I wonder if any MMO has an ability similar to this); your alternative is also reasonable.
    if they still haven't given the omega, romulan and nukara sets warp cores after 5 years, they won't retroactively add any other piece of equipment to older sets either​​
    They should... bad form leaving things unfinished like that, you know.
    tilarta wrote: »
    As an aside, I think an armored helmet option should be provided for the new armor set visuals.
    Glass dome helmets are just too fragile from my point of view...
    Yes, I know it doesn't really have an effect ingame, but I like fully armored helmets.
    I've rejected some armor sets simply because I couldn't get an armored helmet.
    This, sir, is not an unreasonable request; I second it.
  • furiontassadarfuriontassadar Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    So just so we're clear, the majority of the competitive queues that are coming with this update and grant marks for this reputation don't actually include direct PVP. We're calling them Competitive PVE because they're competitions to complete in game tasks, like the Binary Circuit queue we announced this morning. It will definitely be possible to get the marks you need for these rewards without having to step into the PVP world.

    It doesn't matter how you word it, or how you gussy up the actual queues. The key word here is "competitive", and as Inblade said, competition in any form has an unfortunate tendency to bring out the absolute worst in some people, either in your enemies or, more often, your supposed allies.

    I'll reiterate what I said previously: Unless there are other means by which to earn the base marks (at the very least) besides PVP or the "Competitive PVE" queues, I will be skipping this reputation entirely, and it seems like I may not be the only one. The ground set might be the only thing I'm interested in anyway, as is usually the case. The space set is far too defensive, and the traits seem like they're are more useful for PVP (which, again, I don't partake in). And even the ground set is simply not worth putting up with the sort of people that will likely flock to the "Competitive PVE" queues.

    I'm afraid I will always be of the opinion that it is really not a good idea to "force" primarily PVErs to bump elbows with primarily PVPers. Enough animosity already exists between the two, without adding fuel to the fire.
    "There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,584 Community Moderator
    phrg wrote: »
    Tried Ker'rat a year ago.

    After spending 5 minutes being insta-killed half a dozen times by KDF alpha strikes I left.

    In view of the new Rep I thought I'd revisit PVP.

    No change.

    After spending 5 minutes being insta-killed half a dozen times by KDF alpha strikes I left.

    I'll pop back and have a look in 2018.

    :/

    The changes haven't come yet so of course you're gonna get alpha struck. New season will bring the changes, so I think you still got a week to go on the alpha strikes.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • shitnamishitnami Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    When STO becomes WOTs. The Salt levels will go through the roof. Thanks but no thanks. PVP on this scale invites nothing but toxicity.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    I post again because people don't seem to be reading this in the blog: They say, "Assessed Stratagems can also be earned by participating in the Advanced and Elite versions of any queued event." Crystalline ISA etc...

    I predicted they would keep the marks to only the new missions. It's not unprecedented. But it doesn't usually last much more than a month.

    @sheldonlcooper
    Reading huh? It specifically says:
    Assessed Stratagems can also be earned by participating in the Advanced and Elite versions of any queued event which rewards Competitive Marks


    Okay, I get it now. I wasn't down with the lingo that "Competitive Marks" were a specific thing. Well... That sucks. For me, I don't care as I seldom buy rep gear and if I do it's usually 2 years later. But it's a pretty sad attempt to force participation in this garbage.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • nikolunusnikolunus Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    Any chance to make the Fed armors shoulder cape longer? That short one throws the whole look off. Otherwise all of it looks great.
    Space is vast, it's wonderful and maddening. Yet in that madness is some of the greatest beauty I have ever seen.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,469 Arc User
    So just so we're clear, the majority of the competitive queues that are coming with this update and grant marks for this reputation don't actually include direct PVP. We're calling them Competitive PVE because they're competitions to complete in game tasks, like the Binary Circuit queue we announced this morning. It will definitely be possible to get the marks you need for these rewards without having to step into the PVP world.

    Whilst I appreciate this, it's still PvP, which is dying out as a game-style quicker than shell-suits in the 80's. PvP was all good 15 years ago before trolling took over. Engaging team and solo missions will always win out over any sort of PvP, but seeing as everything engaging, which usually involves some time and effort, gets shortened, even this is in short supply in STO compared to even 3 years ago.

    We have too many queues, way too much choice in rewards in each queue (which is one of the reason for low-population in queues) and a disparity in time/effort/reward in the queues. We didn't have this problem when the hourly event system was in place and before the Rep system happened. Too many carrots there Cryptic, which has given us a spoiled and entitled player base! I used to really enjoy hoping the RNGesus would go my way in the old Borg Queues so I might win a salvaged tech. It was this that kept people playing. Now, people know how long it will take exactly to get their Rep equipment.

    And lastly, as another poster mentioned, AFK'ers. The AFK system is inconsistent and not strong enough to discourage people from doing it.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    As a note, we've added the following paragraph to the Prevailing Regalia set, as we feel it explains things better:

    "Each piece in the Prevailing Regalia set has three different versions, flavored for Innervated (Damage), Bolstered (Support), and Fortified (Protection). These different items will have slightly different stats, depending on which version you obtain. Captains can mix and match each of these items and still receive the full set bonuses - for example, the Innervated Impulse Engines and Bolstered Deflector Array will provide the 'Well Rounded' bonus listed below when slotted on a ship. If you choose to obtain one version of an item, you will receive a discount on the other two. For example, obtaining the Fortified Warp Core will grant you a discount on the Innervated and Bolstered Warp Cores."

    Cool, I was wondering where the variant/class-specific stuff hinted at in other patchnotes and blogs was.
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    snix#6028 wrote: »
    I agree with the comments that dropping a buff to the victor on a kill is not the way to create a tense battle. The suggestion to drop a buff for your team WHEN killed is the right call. Turn the tide and prevent the 15-0 match results that are all too common.

    In addition, the Tier 5 'Forced Challenge' click power of forcing movement on players doesn't really fit the Star Trek setting. Tractor beams and gravity wells, but not a 'turn to face attacker'. I would suggest a replacement that aligns with the PvP setting:

    Forced Challenge: While active, you and your target may not gain the benefit of Immunity powers (including things like Continuity).

    You are exposing yourself to a final outcome, while ensuring your own efforts will be felt by your target.

    -snix

    Only thing about this way of reworking the trait is that it wouldn't compel them to fight you, it'd just be used as a sort of subnuc against immunities. I agree that the snare/grapple mechanic makes less sense in STO space combat, but it makes sense in a PvP mechanics sense.
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    "Tried Ker'rat a year ago.

    After spending 5 minutes being insta-killed half a dozen times by KDF alpha strikes I left.

    In view of the new Rep I thought I'd revisit PVP.

    No change.

    After spending 5 minutes being insta-killed half a dozen times by KDF alpha strikes I left.

    I'll pop back and have a look in 2018.

    :/"

    Don't talk this the wrong way, but I laughed LMFAO at this, I don't even know why.

    Anyways the only part of this that interests me is the Tetyron railgun pistol. I don't know if I'll even bother this this Rep as it doesn't interest me, maybe when playing the any type of marks games like Borg Red Alerts.

    Don't get me wrong, I'll try it, it's just that there is very little to this that excites me.

    I'm looking forward to the eventual DS9 expansion that will eventually get released. I'm honestly more excited by the possibility that Carrier Pets might get fixed, then I am by this season, that's not a judgement, I'm happy for PvPers, they've wanted long enough for some love.
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  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,987 Arc User
    So can the next rep be for casual players?

    You know the people your metrics show make up the highest amount of players.
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