A genesis torpedo will never work. Planets are dead for a reason wither it's a lack of mass/magnetic field that lets the air escape gravity via the solar wind or other factors like being in a region of space that could strip away life with radiation. Suppose the device did get the dead worlds magnetic field started again? Whats to say it won't die out as quickly as before and you'd be back to a dying/dead world again.
Say a world is dying because it's star is getting older and not keeping the planet habitable. Torpedo the world all you like but it won't change the planets orbit to better suit the conditions you are going for.
Genesis is to impractical and to dangerous a technology to develop.
I could see it working as part of a larger project... with other advances in technology (namely the ability to move planets into Goldilocks zones... (something Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks might be possible if enough energy could be found)). I think realistically to move a planet, getting a whole fleet of starships probably wouldn't cut it. But I reckon something akin to the Dyson spheres could potentially be used as such a method.
In STO, they have the ability to jump around in space.... and seeing as they harness the entire energy of their respective stars, perhaps one could be engineered specifically for the purpose of planetary transportation (depending on the sphere size, perhaps having a ridiculously sized aperture that could encompass a planet and bring it into orbit around the star inside. Perhaps using the immense energy available from the star, the planet could actually use transporters to capture the planet (although granted that would probably become the sphere's sole purpose).
It is also entirely possible but likely very rare, that a star could capture a barren rogue planet or something akin to that (after all the whole plot of WOK kind of starts with the notion that a lush planet has had its orbit altered by the destruction of another planet).
Once a planet is deposited into a habitable zone, that's when Genesis comes in.
Isn't it kind of ironic and sad that the Genesis device could have been used on Ceti Alpha V, had Khan not abused it.
if a repulsor in star wars can move planets and stars halfway across the galaxy, a star trek version can easily do the same
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
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A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
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"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
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With the Tzenkethi weapon, the whole "Genesis as WMD" angle is a moot point. After all, as soon as we figure out how the bomb works (and we will, because we need to as part of the war) there's no more need to meddle with Genesis if all we want to do is blow stuff up. Hell, we know how Thalaron weapons work too, among other potential planet killers. The only reason to pursue Genesis after having other, simpler and easier means of planet killing is if we're really interested in the life-generating instant terraforming aspects of the technology. There's no reason for our Klingon allies to object.
Also, a properly controlled implementation could create the effect in a small area, like that cave inside Regula.
nononononononononononono..... remember what happened with Spock??? We do not need either of them resurrected let along some kind of Sela Khev hybrid abomination
There is a major flaw in the whole Genesis concept:
Let's say that you can produce a world that is fully capable of sustaining life in a second, Atmosphere and all, from basically nothing.
That's all well and good, but that is not the only factor that is relevant when you want to create a sustainable biosphere.
There is a reason it took around 4.5 billion years for earth to get to where it is today... There needs to be bacterial and microbial life, CO2 cleaning plants, annimals to maintain said plants... And let us not even get started on the requirement of the Goldylock zone...
Remember, the reason why there were functional biosphere was because of the rapid growth of everything, and would not be possible with stable protomatter (the unstable protomatter was what caused the rapid development in the first place), and even Genesis would eventually have cooled down to unsustainable levels because the chances of it being in a goldylock zone was immensely small.
That is probably also the reason why the Genesis project was eventually scrapped (let's be honest... the federation would have at least looked into what failed about the project, even though it was banned after the Search for spock movie).
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Sadly I doubt they would ever properly allow anyone to have a project to redo Genesis as the weaponization potential is too high. That said the way Starfleet security works. Check the lab of some students on one of their ships. It is probably next to the volcano but before the open container of aggressive nanites and bubble of antimatter.
Even if you don't do the research someone else will. The Russians wouldn't have decided not to develop a nuclear weapon if the US had stopped its own development before building Fat Man. If the research has useful peaceful applications then you ought to carry it out as your refusal to conduct that research isn't stopping your enemies from conducting that research. It is only causing you to lose out on valuable technology.
I am guessing that protomatter is very much like an oversaturated solution. It can remain oversaturated and slowly reduce the mass of solute but in the presence of a catalyst the excess mass will quickly fall out of solution. Unexpected matter likely acts as a catalyst which causes the protomatter to quickly form around the unexpected particles instead of slowly forming normal matter.
Correct. Even if the Federation, Galactic Alliance, KDF, or Romulan Republic wash their hands and "promise" to abide by whatever paper shield treaty against developing, researching, or utilizing research, you know that it will still be worked on and developed. Even in the Federation, like with the USS Pegasus incident. Not to mention all the independent empires, who will give a big middle finger to others who try to impose their will against the sovereignty of those independent empires. Besides. You have various governments doing research on thalaron weapons, planet cracking orbital weapons, biological and chemical armaments, Borg tech, time travel shenanigans, and other stuff. Good luck coming out smelling like a rose, when you try to meddle and bully an independent power in the galaxy into abiding by your laws and "moral high ground."
Yeah the huge flaw with Genesis is that a barren rock is like that for a reason, normally something on a solar system/astronomical scale has caused it to be that way. No amount of terraforming will change a planet's orbit, molten core, exposure to solar radiation or lack of a stable magnetic field. So any terraforming event would be wasted potentially as the planet would still be "trying" to revert to its natural state.
It's like real life, sure we could try to terraform the moon, but it has no atmosphere because it's all stripped off by solar winds. Without a magnetic field to protect it any atmosphere wil be lost, and to get a magnetic field you need a spinning iron core, something Genesis can't provide.
Come on, the Genesis device is capable of turning a barren rock into a habitable planet and a Nebula into a star system with habitable planets with a less than 1 ton heavy payload, and you think that the position of the planet might be suboptimal normally would be a problem for it?
This is space magic, it can do whatever it is supposed to do.
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Yeah the huge flaw with Genesis is that a barren rock is like that for a reason, normally something on a solar system/astronomical scale has caused it to be that way. No amount of terraforming will change a planet's orbit, molten core, exposure to solar radiation or lack of a stable magnetic field. So any terraforming event would be wasted potentially as the planet would still be "trying" to revert to its natural state.
It's like real life, sure we could try to terraform the moon, but it has no atmosphere because it's all stripped off by solar winds. Without a magnetic field to protect it any atmosphere wil be lost, and to get a magnetic field you need a spinning iron core, something Genesis can't provide.
That's like saying the huge flaw with warp drive is that it's impossible for information or energy to travel faster than the speed of light.
This is fiction. If the writer(s) want it to work, it works.
nononononononononononono..... remember what happened with Spock??? We do not need either of them resurrected let along some kind of Sela Khev hybrid abomination
Really. If you want to rez someone or Hybridize them, it's easier to use a Transporter Clone concept than protomatter.
Three parts realism, two parts hoax, five parts leg of salamander, nine parts protomatter, six parts darkmatter, and a dash of insanity.
If the proto matter is helping the genesis wave rewrite a planet at the atomic and probably sub-atomic level. Then why couldn't it provide an iron core to a world so it can retain its atmosphere? Moving sub-atomic particles to make new elements is stuff we fool around with today. So it should be considered a massive rewriting of the planet. Like using cheat codes in a game of Civilization.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I thought the whole point of it being in Ceti Alpha was because the planet they thought they were using fit the criteria (barren on star charts and presumably in the Goldilocks zone... which given that Khan's planet was also in the Goldilocks zone, to me suggests that Ceti alpha V & VI were in a somewhat solar synchronous orbit... and indeed this surely lends weight to the idea that Ceti Alpha VI's destruction disrupted the orbit of Ceti Alpha V).
If the microbes affect the experiment, I imagine that the Federation science team would deploy something like a planet-wide Baryon sweep before proceeding.
I thought the whole point of it being in Ceti Alpha was because the planet they thought they were using fit the criteria (barren on star charts and presumably in the Goldilocks zone... which given that Khan's planet was also in the Goldilocks zone, to me suggests that Ceti alpha V & VI were in a somewhat solar synchronous orbit... and indeed this surely lends weight to the idea that Ceti Alpha VI's destruction disrupted the orbit of Ceti Alpha V).
If the microbes affect the experiment, I imagine that the Federation science team would deploy something like a planet-wide Baryon sweep before proceeding.
I don't think it was effects the experiment. Remember Dr. Carol Marcus told Reliant that is there was even a microbe on the planet the show was off. Meaning they would kill absolutely nothing for the sake of the project.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I thought the whole point of it being in Ceti Alpha was because the planet they thought they were using fit the criteria (barren on star charts and presumably in the Goldilocks zone... which given that Khan's planet was also in the Goldilocks zone, to me suggests that Ceti alpha V & VI were in a somewhat solar synchronous orbit... and indeed this surely lends weight to the idea that Ceti Alpha VI's destruction disrupted the orbit of Ceti Alpha V).
If the microbes affect the experiment, I imagine that the Federation science team would deploy something like a planet-wide Baryon sweep before proceeding.
I don't think it was effects the experiment. Remember Dr. Carol Marcus told Reliant that is there was even a microbe on the planet the show was off. Meaning they would kill absolutely nothing for the sake of the project.
Something perfectly, absolutely, utterly confirmed as lifeless and in the Goldilocks zone is apparently hard to find in Star Trek.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
I don't think it was effects the experiment. Remember Dr. Carol Marcus told Reliant that is there was even a microbe on the planet the show was off. Meaning they would kill absolutely nothing for the sake of the project.
Yes, I misunderstood the quote. I thought she was speaking from an instability in the experiment point of view, rather than the principled one. Good on her.
yeah, a truly ethical scientist wouldn't have used protomatter in the 1st place, however david said it was the only way to solve certain problems in the genesis equations
Because science is bad and we should still be living in caves?
yeah, a truly ethical scientist wouldn't have used protomatter in the 1st place, however david said it was the only way to solve certain problems in the genesis equations
And while most people have discarded it as too dangerously unstable for use. It solved his problems and gave a chance at a legitimate use for the stuff. Several decades later we meet the Lukari who know how to stabilize it for practical use. So he was ahead of his time. Not necessarily unethical.
Omega Particles have an inherent instability when done wrong and detonations from them wreck subspace. Current Alliance doctrine is to safely purge them when ever found. But the dyson sphere shows that they can be made, made stable, and have great use. Alliance protocol would be destroy the molecules then the devices that made them and burn the notes. Not learn what was there and perhaps find out if those that made the place knew how to clean up the accidents from them breaking down.
So which method is more ethical? Try and find a peaceful solution and use. Or bury heads in the sand to maintain the status quo?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Comments
if a repulsor in star wars can move planets and stars halfway across the galaxy, a star trek version can easily do the same
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
Its what treknerds do lol
Let's say that you can produce a world that is fully capable of sustaining life in a second, Atmosphere and all, from basically nothing.
That's all well and good, but that is not the only factor that is relevant when you want to create a sustainable biosphere.
There is a reason it took around 4.5 billion years for earth to get to where it is today... There needs to be bacterial and microbial life, CO2 cleaning plants, annimals to maintain said plants... And let us not even get started on the requirement of the Goldylock zone...
Remember, the reason why there were functional biosphere was because of the rapid growth of everything, and would not be possible with stable protomatter (the unstable protomatter was what caused the rapid development in the first place), and even Genesis would eventually have cooled down to unsustainable levels because the chances of it being in a goldylock zone was immensely small.
That is probably also the reason why the Genesis project was eventually scrapped (let's be honest... the federation would have at least looked into what failed about the project, even though it was banned after the Search for spock movie).
Correct. Even if the Federation, Galactic Alliance, KDF, or Romulan Republic wash their hands and "promise" to abide by whatever paper shield treaty against developing, researching, or utilizing research, you know that it will still be worked on and developed. Even in the Federation, like with the USS Pegasus incident. Not to mention all the independent empires, who will give a big middle finger to others who try to impose their will against the sovereignty of those independent empires. Besides. You have various governments doing research on thalaron weapons, planet cracking orbital weapons, biological and chemical armaments, Borg tech, time travel shenanigans, and other stuff. Good luck coming out smelling like a rose, when you try to meddle and bully an independent power in the galaxy into abiding by your laws and "moral high ground."
It's like real life, sure we could try to terraform the moon, but it has no atmosphere because it's all stripped off by solar winds. Without a magnetic field to protect it any atmosphere wil be lost, and to get a magnetic field you need a spinning iron core, something Genesis can't provide.
This is space magic, it can do whatever it is supposed to do.
^this... it was never meant to be realistic
This is fiction. If the writer(s) want it to work, it works.
Really. If you want to rez someone or Hybridize them, it's easier to use a Transporter Clone concept than protomatter.
Three parts realism, two parts hoax, five parts leg of salamander, nine parts protomatter, six parts darkmatter, and a dash of insanity.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
If the microbes affect the experiment, I imagine that the Federation science team would deploy something like a planet-wide Baryon sweep before proceeding.
I don't think it was effects the experiment. Remember Dr. Carol Marcus told Reliant that is there was even a microbe on the planet the show was off. Meaning they would kill absolutely nothing for the sake of the project.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Something perfectly, absolutely, utterly confirmed as lifeless and in the Goldilocks zone is apparently hard to find in Star Trek.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Yes, I misunderstood the quote. I thought she was speaking from an instability in the experiment point of view, rather than the principled one. Good on her.
And while most people have discarded it as too dangerously unstable for use. It solved his problems and gave a chance at a legitimate use for the stuff. Several decades later we meet the Lukari who know how to stabilize it for practical use. So he was ahead of his time. Not necessarily unethical.
Omega Particles have an inherent instability when done wrong and detonations from them wreck subspace. Current Alliance doctrine is to safely purge them when ever found. But the dyson sphere shows that they can be made, made stable, and have great use. Alliance protocol would be destroy the molecules then the devices that made them and burn the notes. Not learn what was there and perhaps find out if those that made the place knew how to clean up the accidents from them breaking down.
So which method is more ethical? Try and find a peaceful solution and use. Or bury heads in the sand to maintain the status quo?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.