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Protomatter
thelunarboy
Member Posts: 412 Arc User
It seems with the throwaway line in the last FE and the abilities of the new Lukari ship, the presence of protomatter technology is a big part of their science.
We know from ST2:TWOK that protomatter is incredibly unstable (and the FE line actually references this and highlights the Lukari knowledge of being able to stabilise it).
So my question is this:
Given the fact that there is now a means to stabilise protomatter (potentially eliminating the controversy over its instability), and that there is the early workings of an alliance between the big three galactic powers (reducing the risk of political tension), could there be scope for Federation scientists to work with the Lukari, Romulans and Klingons to develop Genesis 2?
There's clearly a need for it - planetary devastation from the Iconian threat, the Romulan Republic could do with it in order to colonise currently uninhabitable worlds in their territory, not to mention the potential for each of the great powers to expand outwards in directions that don't encroach on their neighbours.
Aside from any plot point, I really would like to see us get a colony world as a fleet holding... or even better as a personal holding.
A personal holding would be better I think because it would be a good way to showcase things you had achieved as a player. You could have spawned versions of ship classes that your character has access to in game (so as an admiral, all your purchased and unlocked ships have the potential to show up... because as an admiral, that is where you fleet is stationed).
Your bridge officers could also randomly spawn on the planet when you transport down.
We know from ST2:TWOK that protomatter is incredibly unstable (and the FE line actually references this and highlights the Lukari knowledge of being able to stabilise it).
So my question is this:
Given the fact that there is now a means to stabilise protomatter (potentially eliminating the controversy over its instability), and that there is the early workings of an alliance between the big three galactic powers (reducing the risk of political tension), could there be scope for Federation scientists to work with the Lukari, Romulans and Klingons to develop Genesis 2?
There's clearly a need for it - planetary devastation from the Iconian threat, the Romulan Republic could do with it in order to colonise currently uninhabitable worlds in their territory, not to mention the potential for each of the great powers to expand outwards in directions that don't encroach on their neighbours.
Aside from any plot point, I really would like to see us get a colony world as a fleet holding... or even better as a personal holding.
A personal holding would be better I think because it would be a good way to showcase things you had achieved as a player. You could have spawned versions of ship classes that your character has access to in game (so as an admiral, all your purchased and unlocked ships have the potential to show up... because as an admiral, that is where you fleet is stationed).
Your bridge officers could also randomly spawn on the planet when you transport down.
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I think the idea of protomatter is that it's kind of like stem-cells for real matter, so it can become one form of matter or another really quickly: a lump of protomatter can easily be transformed into iron, or gold, or even alloys and combinations of elements without becoming radioactive. A form of matter that can be quickly altered to fit the elemental properties you need would be extremely useful. But what if the idea is that protomatter can't handle becoming living matter without spiraling out of control? What if it becomes cancerous and breaks down and eventually dies, becoming inert matter?
I don't think it was just to do with animal matter. Remember the only complex animal matter that interfered with the development of the planet were Spock's corpse (and all associated microscopic lifeforms attached to him), and the microbes that had coated the torpedo. Whatever was happening was also affecting the planet on a tectonic and geological level as well. I suspect it was the manner in which the Genesis wave was deployed (a weaponised detonation), that caused the planet and everything tied to it to develop at a dangerously exponential level... and that it was the subsequent revelation of banned substances being used to resolve fundamental flaws in the matrix combined with the subsequent political and scientific fallout (the Klingons were still milking it for mileage (courtesy of John Schuck's ambassador). at the end of ST4:TJH), that were the nails in its coffin.
They can always use Alice Eve (I certainly wouldn't object).
I actually think Genesis could/should be given a bit of love in the game. The devs have already mentioned that many players first exposure to Trek was the TOS movies.... and elements from the Genesis arc run through all but one of the classic movies. I did joke about having a Genesis device console on the STO Facebook page.... and of course that was completely in jest.
I definitely want a colony though (complete with doff/admiralty and development/defence missions)
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1227502/question-about-the-tzenkethi?sso=eyJ1bmlxdWVpZCI6IjEwOTgxMzk4NyIsIm5hbWUiOiJ3ZW5keXN1ZTUzIiwiZW1haWwiOiJ3ZW5keXN1ZTUzQGFvbC5jb20iLCJwaG90b3VybCI6Imh0dHA6XC9cL2ltYWdlcy1jZG4ucGVyZmVjdHdvcmxkLmNvbVwvYXJjXC84NlwvMGRcLzg2MGQ1M2EzZDhkYzY3ZjQwMWQ4MjgwOThiNzczMmU3MTQ3Mjg3OTY3MC5qcGciLCJyb2xlcyI6Ik1lbWJlciIsImNsaWVudF9pZCI6IjE0NDM5Njg5ODEifQ%3D%3D+edad160ec66c4fa97a644ec592ffe34b70f2cafa+1485438431+hmacsha1
didn't feel up to shortening it.
But yeah, I def want a colony, too.
And of course in the biblical narrative... Genesis chapter 3 is where the Fall of Man occurs. I wonder if that was a deliberate reference?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
No comment on what protomatter is. You and others seem to have similar theories and that make sense.
On the WMD point however. I still think genesis is something all parties will regulate out of existence. Because they don't want planet killers, thalaron bombs, etc all over the place. That this one makes a new viable world is worse. Imagine the tholians turning M class worlds into worlds they like? Imagine their horror that we might use it on their worlds to make them cold the way we humanoids do?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And science fiction cliches notwithstanding, going into hostile territory to terraform inhabited worlds is a stupid idea, when the universe is full of lifeless rocks that could be used without wasting resources on conflict.
Season one TnG Home soil. Federation scientists terraforming a planet in a slow way. Why? They had already established they have replicators. So it isn't for food. Mining would not need a habitable surface. The only reasonable purpose I see is living area. So this lines up with your reasoning.
My WMD issue is both appearance and those with less scruples than the federation. Again I am going to use tholians in my example. They are xenophobic, expansionistic, and at the mildest distrust humanoid life. During the quests on New Romulus you find they are planning to make the planet more habitable for themselves. But to a tholian New Romulus is as cold as Hoth and as poisonous as Venus to them. Why bother, to take the archeological finds for themselves and to inconvenience those that oppose them.
If they had a genesis device they may have used it. (May because the whole recover artifacts thing is hard if the matrix turned the iconian statues into a teddy bears.) But all bets are off they would use it to secure border worlds and push back their enemies.
And all arguments about world killing weapons miss one scary issue. Thalaron weapons will burn a world and leave it lifeless and dead. And presumably irradiated. Orbital bombardments will be messy. But wipe the world clean and be able to just drop a base or colony of your own there. Why ever use the other methods at all?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Yeah. Uhm so Kirk got one. B'vat a second and the Nak'hul a third. How many of those things are there?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Actually that's exactly how I used to play the space phase of Spore. Terraform bombing the TRIBBLE out of the Grox (who were in essence the Borg with the Tholian weakness of not being able to survive on a liveable planet).
Essentially the Prime Directive wouldn't allow it if there was life there... but technically the Federation shouldn't even be colonising any worlds that have even the most basic forms of life already present (because by definition, that affects the destiny of the planet and prevents its ecosystem and societies from evolving unhindered). Or maybe I'm overcooking the Prime Directive and it supposed to only apply to planets with sapient life.
*edit* I just noticed the expletive filter censored out an innocent descriptive for faecal matter (it wasn't the s-bomb). That seems way oversensitive. Here in the UK that wouldn't even be considered swearing... just an informal noun.
Didn't someone create a Foundry mission with a system full of the giant cream rolls of death? Like they were spawning grounds?
depends... how many times have you run a certain STF??? seems to be an unlimited number
That is part of the point. The Federation wouldn't use them that way. And when it was created by the Marcuses it had only peaceful intentions. And they wanted a totally dead not so much as a microbe planet in the goldilocks band for phase three. The morality for the design was aimed very high.
Then an augment dictator took it. Then an aggressive Klingon captain came for it. How long till a group that can't understand the federation and its members at all sees it and decides it is the ultimate can of Raid?
The part about it leaves nice worlds behind to colonize. I don't mean the moment you launch the thing. But it can deny territory to your opponent while creating territory for you to claim. And that eco-'friendly' touch? Might salve a general's conscience enough that using them over conventional wmd's is preferable.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Say a world is dying because it's star is getting older and not keeping the planet habitable. Torpedo the world all you like but it won't change the planets orbit to better suit the conditions you are going for.
Genesis is to impractical and to dangerous a technology to develop.
I could see it working as part of a larger project... with other advances in technology (namely the ability to move planets into Goldilocks zones... (something Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks might be possible if enough energy could be found)). I think realistically to move a planet, getting a whole fleet of starships probably wouldn't cut it. But I reckon something akin to the Dyson spheres could potentially be used as such a method.
In STO, they have the ability to jump around in space.... and seeing as they harness the entire energy of their respective stars, perhaps one could be engineered specifically for the purpose of planetary transportation (depending on the sphere size, perhaps having a ridiculously sized aperture that could encompass a planet and bring it into orbit around the star inside. Perhaps using the immense energy available from the star, the planet could actually use transporters to capture the planet (although granted that would probably become the sphere's sole purpose).
It is also entirely possible but likely very rare, that a star could capture a barren rogue planet or something akin to that (after all the whole plot of WOK kind of starts with the notion that a lush planet has had its orbit altered by the destruction of another planet).
Once a planet is deposited into a habitable zone, that's when Genesis comes in.
Isn't it kind of ironic and sad that the Genesis device could have been used on Ceti Alpha V, had Khan not abused it.
Even if you don't do the research someone else will. The Russians wouldn't have decided not to develop a nuclear weapon if the US had stopped its own development before building Fat Man. If the research has useful peaceful applications then you ought to carry it out as your refusal to conduct that research isn't stopping your enemies from conducting that research. It is only causing you to lose out on valuable technology.
I am guessing that protomatter is very much like an oversaturated solution. It can remain oversaturated and slowly reduce the mass of solute but in the presence of a catalyst the excess mass will quickly fall out of solution. Unexpected matter likely acts as a catalyst which causes the protomatter to quickly form around the unexpected particles instead of slowly forming normal matter.