Shuttles can get you great amounts of Marks during the Shuttle Event. Run 'Atmospheric Assault', only need 5 Shuttles and you can make 220-275 Marks of your choice each run (high number includes Daily Bonus).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't hate the F2P players, I just hate that F2P is a thing at all, here or in any other MMO.
You'll have to forgive me if I choose to disagree completely with you here. I have no argument with any other point in your post, and I frankly agree, TBS FF was far more fun than Street Fighter Final Fantasy.
But honestly, not everyone has the ability to spend money on a game, whether it's in small amounts or large amounts, or obscene amounts. And some games really are quite fun. Would you really want to deny someone the ability to play a game simply because they can't afford a subscription of some kind? Even if they're actually someone who is just as much of a fan of said franchise as you are, if not more so?
That feels like a bit of a false dichotomy to me, as LTS and F2Pers aren't necessarily opposed. Which is to say, LTSers aren't guaranteed to spend RL money on the game (apart from their one-time sub), and F2Pers aren't guaranteed to not spend RL money on the game. The latter could well spend lotsa monies on lockbox ship and what have you, and yet be entirely comfortable within the limitations of F2P.
Which is why I've never actally witnessed LTSers hating on F2Pers. Not that I recall, at least. I've ere seen the opposite, if it weren't for the fact that LTSers and F2Pers aren't opposed per se; so, I should say, I have ere seen ppl hate on whales spending a lot of money on the game (as if they're cheating somehow), rather than the other thing.
Hence my usage of the word "some". I agree, I see lots of cooperation and understanding between F2P players and LTS players. But then you have a vocal few (not you evilmark, you're not even in sensor range of the list for people I'm referring to here) that outright HATE the F2P player base. And they all go the same route. Why are they just as good as we are when we spend money? That's what I want gone.
I honestly don't care if you don't like someone. That's your problem. But unless they're causing you direct agony (not pain, if it's pain, suck it up), keep it to yourself.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I don't hate the F2P players, I just hate that F2P is a thing at all, here or in any other MMO.
You'll have to forgive me if I choose to disagree completely with you here. I have no argument with any other point in your post, and I frankly agree, TBS FF was far more fun than Street Fighter Final Fantasy.
But honestly, not everyone has the ability to spend money on a game, whether it's in small amounts or large amounts, or obscene amounts. And some games really are quite fun. Would you really want to deny someone the ability to play a game simply because they can't afford a subscription of some kind? Even if they're actually someone who is just as much of a fan of said franchise as you are, if not more so?
It's not that I want to deny anyone access to the game, it's all the changes that are made to accommodate F2P that I dislike. In this respect, STO is the worst F2P MMO I know of, as most gear now is either locked behind a pay wall or a lengthy timegate, and a subscription has almost no value at all. Now there are a few things Cryptic could do that would make me slightly happier within their current F2P model, but I will never be as happy as I would have been had they been profitable enough in the beginning to not go F2P.
not that the payment methods have anything remotely to do with the subject
Personally I refuse to support p2p games... its a dead, dated, business model. I'm more in favor of the b2p model. Buy the game, free to play. Want the expansions/dlc? buy em, free to play. The best example I can think of atm is Secret World, their cash shop has good stuff, mostly cosmetic, none p2win.
@evilmark444 is still ignoring the issue he's pointing at. Doesn't like f2p? fine. play something else. Mentioned before in this thread, but f2p is the reason STO is still a functioning game. Without it, the game would have been canceled due to a lack of profit.
and as that touches on econ, Druk can probably explain it. It's been explained before why the model works and why it is used.
So... other than the fantasy of turning all our ships into horse-drawn carts by going economically backwards, what's a good item to remove - or alter, or modify, or what not - in the game?
not that the payment methods have anything remotely to do with the subject
Personally I refuse to support p2p games... its a dead, dated, business model. I'm more in favor of the b2p model. Buy the game, free to play. Want the expansions/dlc? buy em, free to play. The best example I can think of atm is Secret World, their cash shop has good stuff, mostly cosmetic, none p2win.
It all started when someone else said they would remove F2P (though I hate F2P, my choice was the reputation system as it exists right now).
B2P I can support a lot more than F2P, which is probably why I prefer LotRO and SWtOR's models over STO's, however ultimately I prefer P2P, since your 15 bucks gets you relatively easy access to everything the game has to offer (assuming you own the latest expansion).
evilmark444 is still ignoring the issue he's pointing at. Doesn't like f2p? fine. play something else. Mentioned before in this thread, but f2p is the reason STO is still a functioning game. Without it, the game would have been canceled due to a lack of profit.
Because 99.9% of the MMOs I enjoy (ie everything that's not WoW) have gone F2P, so I have no choice if I want to continue playing them. That doesn't mean I'm not going to voice my disgust with it though. Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of things I dislike about WoW, but ultimately I think I care about STO more and see the potential it could have had if different decisions had been made in the original development, which makes everything I dislike about STO even more painful. In the past year, I've spent at least three times more money on STO than I have WoW, so clearly I value it more, yet I've spent at least twice as much time playing WoW instead because there's just nothing fun to do in STO once you finish a new FE. If the game wasn't F2P, then things like lockbox items, T6 ships, their consoles, and their traits could all possibly be loot in the queues or something, which would give me something to play for unlike reputations, the thing I originally voted to remove, which actually make me want to stop playing everytime I come back.
And finalized my opinion on page 10 as possibly me just getting old, while responding to someone else:
If I could remove one thing from the game, it would be the hatred of F2Pers that some LTS players seem to have. Believe it or not, most of us aren't that bad.
Yeah, we didn't pay for the game. Yeah, we can get all the same stuff you can. Oh wait, we can't. We can't get the LTS destroyers (or their T6 variants). We don't get 500 zen every month. We don't get access to The Captain's Table (even though if what I've seen on the forums is the norm there, then tbh I don't want it).
Geez guys. Tbh the combined money spent by F2P players is probably more than the total of the LTS players. I'm not saying this as 100% fact, but it's likely. So please. Enough of the hating on us.
I don't hate the F2P players, I just hate that F2P is a thing at all, here or in any other MMO. Infact the only thing I may resent game developers for more is the fact that RPGs like Final Fantasy have completely abandoned turn based gameplay in favor of mindless button-mashing "action RPG" gameplay.
Of course, both of these topics have a "change is bad" vibe to them, so maybe I'm just getting old, idk.
I'm not trying to rant or go on and on about something that I seemingly can't see would never happen, I'm simply carrying on a conversation as other people respond or say something that is related. I'm perfectly happy to drop the subject if everyone else is done talking about it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hence my usage of the word "some". I agree, I see lots of cooperation and understanding between F2P players and LTS players. But then you have a vocal few (not you evilmark, you're not even in sensor range of the list for people I'm referring to here) that outright HATE the F2P player base. And they all go the same route. Why are they just as good as we are when we spend money? That's what I want gone.
And that mentality I really don't understand, at all. Why on Earth would I care about the subscription model of another player?! Or how well they perform not spending RL money?! How could such a thing possibly have any relevance to anyone?! I suggest they not spend money either, then (if it's allegedly so easy in their eyes without). But primarily, I simply don't get it: everything a F2P-er does, a LTS-er can do too, so where does all the jelly stem from then?
Hence my usage of the word "some". I agree, I see lots of cooperation and understanding between F2P players and LTS players. But then you have a vocal few (not you evilmark, you're not even in sensor range of the list for people I'm referring to here) that outright HATE the F2P player base. And they all go the same route. Why are they just as good as we are when we spend money? That's what I want gone.
And that mentality I really don't understand, at all. Why on Earth would I care about the subscription model of another player?! Or how well they perform not spending RL money?! How could such a thing possibly have any relevance to anyone?! I suggest they not spend money either, then (if it's allegedly so easy in their eyes without). But primarily, I simply don't get it: everything a F2P-er does, a LTS-er can do too, so where does all the jelly stem from then?
I can't speak for everyone that dislikes F2P, but I stayed my own reason further up on this page:
I don't hate the F2P players, I just hate that F2P is a thing at all, here or in any other MMO.
You'll have to forgive me if I choose to disagree completely with you here. I have no argument with any other point in your post, and I frankly agree, TBS FF was far more fun than Street Fighter Final Fantasy.
But honestly, not everyone has the ability to spend money on a game, whether it's in small amounts or large amounts, or obscene amounts. And some games really are quite fun. Would you really want to deny someone the ability to play a game simply because they can't afford a subscription of some kind? Even if they're actually someone who is just as much of a fan of said franchise as you are, if not more so?
It's not that I want to deny anyone access to the game, it's all the changes that are made to accommodate F2P that I dislike. In this respect, STO is the worst F2P MMO I know of, as most gear now is either locked behind a pay wall or a lengthy timegate, and a subscription has almost no value at all.
Now there are a few things Cryptic could do that would make me slightly happier within their current F2P model, but I will never be as happy as I would have been had they been profitable enough in the beginning to not go F2P.
If anyone has the same reasons for disliking it as I do, its possible they are taking it one step further and incorrectly blaming the F2P players themselves for the impact F2P has had on the game design.
But primarily, I simply don't get it: everything a F2P-er does, a LTS-er can do too, so where does all the jelly stem from then?
I have seen a lot of folks in the game who seem to deeply regret ever spending the amount of money they spent on the game. Finding that they are no better off than many folks who have spent nothing, talking about their spending is often their only way to express themselves in a way that sets them apart from F2P folks. This often makes them the center of attention, drawing more attention to their spending, increasing their shame.
It is an emotionally vicious cycle and everyone has their breaking point.
Hence my usage of the word "some". I agree, I see lots of cooperation and understanding between F2P players and LTS players. But then you have a vocal few (not you evilmark, you're not even in sensor range of the list for people I'm referring to here) that outright HATE the F2P player base. And they all go the same route. Why are they just as good as we are when we spend money? That's what I want gone.
And that mentality I really don't understand, at all. Why on Earth would I care about the subscription model of another player?! Or how well they perform not spending RL money?! How could such a thing possibly have any relevance to anyone?! I suggest they not spend money either, then (if it's allegedly so easy in their eyes without). But primarily, I simply don't get it: everything a F2P-er does, a LTS-er can do too, so where does all the jelly stem from then?
"Waaah, someone is having more fun for less money than me."
"Waaah, someone has more cool stuff than me and I can't afford to spend that much."
But primarily, I simply don't get it: everything a F2P-er does, a LTS-er can do too, so where does all the jelly stem from then?
I have seen a lot of folks in the game who seem to deeply regret ever spending the amount of money they spent on the game. Finding that they are no better off than many folks who have spent nothing, talking about their spending is often their only way to express themselves in a way that sets them apart from F2P folks. This often makes them the center of attention, drawing more attention to their spending, increasing their shame.
It is an emotionally vicious cycle and everyone has their breaking point.
^^ That rationale, twisted as it is, actually makes sense. Thx for the explanation.
If there was only ONE thing you could remove from the game in order to improve the game? What would it be?
The mentality that DPS is the only thing worth pursuing, and I mean that both from the DPS-chasers side and the developers side. Missions that put emphasis on something other than "the best defense is a good offense" would be such a welcome addition in my opinion, but the developers won't do that when so many players would decry it as a terrible decision because all their DPS is rendered worthless.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
I don't hate the F2P players, I just hate that F2P is a thing at all, here or in any other MMO.
You'll have to forgive me if I choose to disagree completely with you here. I have no argument with any other point in your post, and I frankly agree, TBS FF was far more fun than Street Fighter Final Fantasy.
But honestly, not everyone has the ability to spend money on a game, whether it's in small amounts or large amounts, or obscene amounts. And some games really are quite fun. Would you really want to deny someone the ability to play a game simply because they can't afford a subscription of some kind? Even if they're actually someone who is just as much of a fan of said franchise as you are, if not more so?
It's not that I want to deny anyone access to the game, it's all the changes that are made to accommodate F2P that I dislike. In this respect, STO is the worst F2P MMO I know of, as most gear now is either locked behind a pay wall or a lengthy timegate, and a subscription has almost no value at all. Now there are a few things Cryptic could do that would make me slightly happier within their current F2P model, but I will never be as happy as I would have been had they been profitable enough in the beginning to not go F2P.
What gear is locked behind a paywall? What universe do you even live in crazy dude?
... the vast majority of T5 and T6 ships and their associated consoles ...
The devs. Get real gamers and software engineers in here to make it less grindy and more rewarding.
I would argue the grind needs to stay but the bugs need to go and the fun factor needs to go up to mask the grind more. Options need to be available like the new battle zones they're releasing soon. From what I read they are putting out two space zones and no ground zones so far? They should really do something along the lines of:
* One open space zone. (Badlands like)
* One open ground zone. (Dyson/Kobali like)
* One STF space.
* One STF ground.
That gives people more options on new content releases and can help ease the grind aspect by giving people more choices in grinding out the same grind so it's less boring.
The devs. Get real gamers and software engineers in here to make it less grindy and more rewarding.
I would argue the grind needs to stay but the bugs need to go and the fun factor needs to go up to mask the grind more. Options need to be available like the new battle zones they're releasing soon. From what I read they are putting out two space zones and no ground zones so far? They should really do something along the lines of:
* One open space zone. (Badlands like)
* One open ground zone. (Dyson/Kobali like)
* One STF space.
* One STF ground.
That gives people more options on new content releases and can help ease the grind aspect by giving people more choices in grinding out the same grind so it's less boring.
I personally don't mind grinds, it's timegates that TRIBBLE me off
If there was only ONE thing you could remove from the game in order to improve the game? What would it be?
The mentality that DPS is the only thing worth pursuing, and I mean that both from the DPS-chasers side and the developers side. Missions that put emphasis on something other than "the best defense is a good offense" would be such a welcome addition in my opinion, but the developers won't do that when so many players would decry it as a terrible decision because all their DPS is rendered worthless.
Considering nearly all of the missions are either auto-win or close enough, getting some that put emphasis on anything at all would be a welcome addition in my opinion.
But seeing as some people still complain the autowin stuff is "too hard" and Cryptic seems to be keen to appease them...
The devs. Get real gamers and software engineers in here to make it less grindy and more rewarding.
I would argue the grind needs to stay but the bugs need to go and the fun factor needs to go up to mask the grind more. Options need to be available like the new battle zones they're releasing soon. From what I read they are putting out two space zones and no ground zones so far? They should really do something along the lines of:
* One open space zone. (Badlands like)
* One open ground zone. (Dyson/Kobali like)
* One STF space.
* One STF ground.
That gives people more options on new content releases and can help ease the grind aspect by giving people more choices in grinding out the same grind so it's less boring.
I personally don't mind grinds, it's timegates that **** me off
Some time gates are important but there are also quite a few that get on my nerves as well. Like finishing a rep project after a few weeks of grinding only to have it time gated to completion with everything filled in.
Also I know people have alts for dilithium refinement farming making the base 8k a day limit needed but I wish that would double to 16k a day. I've got over 400k of ore waiting to be refined on one Agent of Yesterday character for upgrades and that's going to be a long while where I'm thinking of shelving that character to just refine each day instead of playing and enjoying it more with upgrades.
Comments
this would eliminate the 21st century not just problems in sto
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You'll have to forgive me if I choose to disagree completely with you here. I have no argument with any other point in your post, and I frankly agree, TBS FF was far more fun than Street Fighter Final Fantasy.
But honestly, not everyone has the ability to spend money on a game, whether it's in small amounts or large amounts, or obscene amounts. And some games really are quite fun. Would you really want to deny someone the ability to play a game simply because they can't afford a subscription of some kind? Even if they're actually someone who is just as much of a fan of said franchise as you are, if not more so?
Hence my usage of the word "some". I agree, I see lots of cooperation and understanding between F2P players and LTS players. But then you have a vocal few (not you evilmark, you're not even in sensor range of the list for people I'm referring to here) that outright HATE the F2P player base. And they all go the same route. Why are they just as good as we are when we spend money? That's what I want gone.
I honestly don't care if you don't like someone. That's your problem. But unless they're causing you direct agony (not pain, if it's pain, suck it up), keep it to yourself.
It's not that I want to deny anyone access to the game, it's all the changes that are made to accommodate F2P that I dislike. In this respect, STO is the worst F2P MMO I know of, as most gear now is either locked behind a pay wall or a lengthy timegate, and a subscription has almost no value at all. Now there are a few things Cryptic could do that would make me slightly happier within their current F2P model, but I will never be as happy as I would have been had they been profitable enough in the beginning to not go F2P.
Personally I refuse to support p2p games... its a dead, dated, business model. I'm more in favor of the b2p model. Buy the game, free to play. Want the expansions/dlc? buy em, free to play. The best example I can think of atm is Secret World, their cash shop has good stuff, mostly cosmetic, none p2win.
and as that touches on econ, Druk can probably explain it. It's been explained before why the model works and why it is used.
So... other than the fantasy of turning all our ships into horse-drawn carts by going economically backwards, what's a good item to remove - or alter, or modify, or what not - in the game?
It all started when someone else said they would remove F2P (though I hate F2P, my choice was the reputation system as it exists right now).
B2P I can support a lot more than F2P, which is probably why I prefer LotRO and SWtOR's models over STO's, however ultimately I prefer P2P, since your 15 bucks gets you relatively easy access to everything the game has to offer (assuming you own the latest expansion).
@wendysue53 I answered this back on page 8:
And finalized my opinion on page 10 as possibly me just getting old, while responding to someone else:
I'm not trying to rant or go on and on about something that I seemingly can't see would never happen, I'm simply carrying on a conversation as other people respond or say something that is related. I'm perfectly happy to drop the subject if everyone else is done talking about it.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Have you ever played Tomb Raider?
And that mentality I really don't understand, at all. Why on Earth would I care about the subscription model of another player?! Or how well they perform not spending RL money?! How could such a thing possibly have any relevance to anyone?! I suggest they not spend money either, then (if it's allegedly so easy in their eyes without). But primarily, I simply don't get it: everything a F2P-er does, a LTS-er can do too, so where does all the jelly stem from then?
I can't speak for everyone that dislikes F2P, but I stayed my own reason further up on this page:
If anyone has the same reasons for disliking it as I do, its possible they are taking it one step further and incorrectly blaming the F2P players themselves for the impact F2P has had on the game design.
It is an emotionally vicious cycle and everyone has their breaking point.
"Waaah, someone is having more fun for less money than me."
"Waaah, someone has more cool stuff than me and I can't afford to spend that much."
Or some combination of the two.
^^ That rationale, twisted as it is, actually makes sense.
The mentality that DPS is the only thing worth pursuing, and I mean that both from the DPS-chasers side and the developers side. Missions that put emphasis on something other than "the best defense is a good offense" would be such a welcome addition in my opinion, but the developers won't do that when so many players would decry it as a terrible decision because all their DPS is rendered worthless.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
... the vast majority of T5 and T6 ships and their associated consoles ...
I would argue the grind needs to stay but the bugs need to go and the fun factor needs to go up to mask the grind more. Options need to be available like the new battle zones they're releasing soon. From what I read they are putting out two space zones and no ground zones so far? They should really do something along the lines of:
* One open space zone. (Badlands like)
* One open ground zone. (Dyson/Kobali like)
* One STF space.
* One STF ground.
That gives people more options on new content releases and can help ease the grind aspect by giving people more choices in grinding out the same grind so it's less boring.
I personally don't mind grinds, it's timegates that TRIBBLE me off
But seeing as some people still complain the autowin stuff is "too hard" and Cryptic seems to be keen to appease them...
Some time gates are important but there are also quite a few that get on my nerves as well. Like finishing a rep project after a few weeks of grinding only to have it time gated to completion with everything filled in.
Also I know people have alts for dilithium refinement farming making the base 8k a day limit needed but I wish that would double to 16k a day. I've got over 400k of ore waiting to be refined on one Agent of Yesterday character for upgrades and that's going to be a long while where I'm thinking of shelving that character to just refine each day instead of playing and enjoying it more with upgrades.