test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Beating a dead horse - Captain as highest endgame rank.

2456711

Comments

  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    The problem with STO is EVERY player character is considered to be the "Exceptional Officer" - born to command a starship and lead men/(Women too). So, yeah, there's no way around that plot point.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,446 Arc User
    My ship commanders, with few exceptions, are Captains. It's not their fault that random civilians and members of allied forces can't read their rank insignia... :smirk:​​
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • danaleedanalee Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    Rank structure is indeed messed up. Horribly so.

    Should simply remove it all together and instead use the player titles instead of player rank.

    Currently missions use the rank, this means it is a simple swap of a variable in the code... if it was coded right or even half right... heck, 1/64 th right and it should still be this way.

    Is the easiest change to provide the desired effect.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    As per title - make Captain (the true 'hero' rank of Star Trek) the highest endgame rank, with Fleet leaders able to unlock the rank 'Admiral'.

    Or, for goodness sake, please, PLEASE, let NPCs address us as our chosen Titles (like Commander, Captain, Lieutenant....and yes, even Moist, or Torpedo Target, etc. Because NO ONE else can see the NPC dialog except us and it is the PLAYER'S choice to be called that.)

    I am SOOOO sick of being called Admiral everywhere I go when I am clearly wearing CAPTAIN stripes/pips. ;)

    Thanks! :)

    Agree with the post, the suggestion and the cut of the OP's jib. This is a long overdue QoL change many have asked for.

    I have always and still support it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    As per title - make Captain (the true 'hero' rank of Star Trek) the highest endgame rank, with Fleet leaders able to unlock the rank 'Admiral'.

    Or, for goodness sake, please, PLEASE, let NPCs address us as our chosen Titles (like Commander, Captain, Lieutenant....and yes, even Moist, or Torpedo Target, etc. Because NO ONE else can see the NPC dialog except us and it is the PLAYER'S choice to be called that.)

    I am SOOOO sick of being called Admiral everywhere I go when I am clearly wearing CAPTAIN stripes/pips. ;)

    Thanks! :)

    Agree with the post, the suggestion and the cut of the OP's jib. This is a long overdue QoL change many have asked for.

    I have always and still support it.

    The problem is that making Captain the highest endgame rank is too controversial. If the game was in Beta or even in the first couple of months after launch when the level cap was 45, then such a change would be acceptable. However, some people like being an Admiral and will be extremely pissed off by being demoted to Captain after being Admiral for years. Fleet Admiral is pushing it and it would have been better for Admiral to be awarded at level 60 instead of level 50.

    If I remember correctly, Star Trek Online before Perpetual failed miserably and Cryptic took over was supposed to have us go up the ranks before we could finally gain command of a ship. It is more realistic for a Lieutenant to do various tasks on a ship under the command of a npc captain, but it is certainly not as fun as getting command of a starship in the first hour.


  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    Well, since we now have Ship-Doffs, we kinda are technically Admirals... we command fleets of ships. What we need is to go 1 further. We need space 'away teams' aka, have 4 AI ships from our rosters as support in missions that we give commands to. Then we'd be full on Admirals. ;)
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    If only we could display fleet titles/ranks...Not armada ones either.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    As per Delta Recruit dialogue, player characters being admirals is part of the game storyline. Also, wouldn't much make sense having an admiralty system if we weren't admirals.

    Being addressed by our chosen titles (which includes all the ranks for those who want to use them) would be optimal. Both in terms of giving players greater freedom for roleplaying and in making various unlockable titles more valuable as rewards.
    xyquarze wrote: »
    A problem with the title you're called would be that in past threads players have voiced they very much like their "Moist" or "Torpedo Target" as a title, but not being addressed like that. To please that part of the base (which I should call "this part", since I am included here), you'd need to differentiate between those types of titles. You DON'T want to address my Ferasan as "Fast and Flurrious"...
    I don't want to address your ferasan as anything. B)

    Whether Cryptic would "need" to please that part of the playerbase is a decision for them to make. Personally I don't see any logic in wanting to display a title you don't want to be known by. Even though fact is very few players will ever see your title and even fewer will care.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    If only we could display fleet titles/ranks...Not armada ones either.
    I don't think that's a great idea. We'd have 'God' and 'Super Saiyan' running around ESD.

    I'd expect we do have God and Super Saiyan running around ESD. Likely more than one. They are not reserved names. Having them as titles would make little difference.

    And why is it that "running around ESD" has become shorthand for "I object to other players' freedom of choice for no good reason"? :confused:
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    reyan01 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    And why is it that "running around ESD" has become shorthand for "I object to other players' freedom of choice for no good reason"? :confused:

    Not sure how you came to that conclusion - I only referred to ESD as it's the most obviously busy social zone.

    Well, yes. But lots of players/forum posters use "X running around ESD" (where X can be anything the person doesn't like) as if it was an actual argument against allowing other players to do X, and I was wondering how the phrase came to be used as such.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    I saw Donald Trump running around ESD. it was hillarious.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    This poor, poor horse. People just won't let her die a peaceful death.

    I support this comment 100%.
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
    95bced8038c91ec6f880d510e6fd302f366a776c4c5761e5f7931d491667a45e.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    As per title - make Captain (the true 'hero' rank of Star Trek) the highest endgame rank, with Fleet leaders able to unlock the rank 'Admiral'.

    Or, for goodness sake, please, PLEASE, let NPCs address us as our chosen Titles (like Commander, Captain, Lieutenant....and yes, even Moist, or Torpedo Target, etc. Because NO ONE else can see the NPC dialog except us and it is the PLAYER'S choice to be called that.)

    I am SOOOO sick of being called Admiral everywhere I go when I am clearly wearing CAPTAIN stripes/pips. ;)

    Thanks! :)

    Agree with the post, the suggestion and the cut of the OP's jib. This is a long overdue QoL change many have asked for.

    I have always and still support it.

    The problem is that making Captain the highest endgame rank is too controversial.

    I understand that. But I still support the suggestion.

    And I feel a viable compromise is the suggestion to have NPCs address you by a chosen title.

    So yeah, I totally understand the points made against the suggestion. I still fully support the suggestion almost every time it comes up.

    It's just something I want.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    This poor, poor horse. People just won't let her die a peaceful death.

    They said that about the T6 Connie though. I obviously subscribe to the Galaxy Quest mantra: Never give up! Never surrender!

    ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,987 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Isn't whoever is captaining a ship considered the captain regardless of rank?

    Captain is a position as well as a rank.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    Isn't whoever is captaining a ship considered the captain regardless of rank?

    Captain is a position as well as a rank.

    YES! And that kind of creates another suggestion ... changing it to address people as captain regardless of rank because of that very point you make.

    :)

    Then ranks can stay where they are and everyone can get called Captain, kind of like they do in their own communications with the players offline.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    We are captains, we command starships, Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    Sigh, no it's not. Kirk, Decker, Ross, Janeway all commanded starships whilst in the admiralty. There are numerous admirals in TOS that also do so, as does Black in ENT, at least two Admirals-of-the-week in TNG, and obviously Fleet Admiral Marcus. Admiral is a rank above captain that gives you more responsibilities that may mean being transferred to a Starbase or Outpost but can mean a Starship. Real captians accept their promotion like professional grownups.

    Kirk is the single exception to this as he believes he'll be chained to a desk when made Admiral (well, apart from the fact that he remained in command of the Enterprise as Admiral in TMP and in TWoK). Well, technically Riker also refused to be promoted but finally grew up by NEM taking command of the Titan.

    Kirk was a special case, Decker was a commodore, Ross did not command the ship he was on, he was on a flag bridge and commanded the fleet, the Actual captain of the ship ran the ship.

    And when did Janeway command a ship when she was an Admiral? Last I checked she commanded Voyager as a captain till she got home, got promoted to Vice Admiral and taught tactics at the Academy last I knew of.

    Most admirals didn't command the ship, they just rode along. Infact in TWoK, Spock would of been well within his rights to tell Kirk "Ok you gave my my orders, now go sit there twiddling your thumbs while I command my ship and get you to Regulus."

    Infact Kirk told Spock to do just that. Spock out of friendship and knowing how much Kirk missed the chair told him to take command.

    In TMP, Kirk was temporarily demoted to Captain to take command of the Enterprise while Decker was temporarily demoted to Commander. Had Decker survived the encounter, Kirk would of gone back to Starfleet command and Decker would of taken his rightful command. And IIRC, it wasn't long after the events of TMP Kirk handed the Enterprise over to Spock.

    Also, if Admirals flew around in captain's chairs, why did Kirk tell Picard to never get promoted out of the captain's chair? Cause he knew A. Picard would miss it, B. it's harder than hell to get back in that chair. Only reason Kirk got back to where he wanted to be, he finally got demoted back to Captain and given back a ship. Kirk should of never taken the Promotion that took him out of that Captain's seat.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    This poor, poor horse. People just won't let her die a peaceful death.

    They said that about the T6 Connie though. I obviously subscribe to the Galaxy Quest mantra: Never give up! Never surrender!

    ;)

    The T6 Connie made cryptic money, this is a Space Barbie request. Unless they make it an unlock in the C-Store, I highly doubt they are going to do it for you.

    "Kicks horse again"

    Can't we just create a T7 Connie thread and make the forums go up in flames?
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
    95bced8038c91ec6f880d510e6fd302f366a776c4c5761e5f7931d491667a45e.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator
  • theotherscotty#9105 theotherscotty Member Posts: 385 Arc User
    I like the idea of letting us have our Starfleet rank be independent of our level as we level up. Whether that'll ever actually happen remains to be seen (probably highly unlikely, but then I once said that about Kelvin Timeline ships and a T6 TOS Connie too, so we'll see).

    I say just wear captain pips or stripes or whatever, use the "captain" title, ignore the NPCs calling you "admiral," and carry on enjoying the game.

    This proverbial dead horse has been thoroughly beaten into a dead horse purée by now. lol
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    tell that to Admiral Nelson, injured in battle and almost killed on several occasions and finally killed at Trafalgar while commanding HMS Victory, as an Admiral he had a more colourful career at sea then some captains.
    he was a true hero.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    this horse is not dead, it's a petrified fossil. ;p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    It's too late now with the admiralty system in place.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    tell that to Admiral Nelson, injured in battle and almost killed on several occasions and finally killed at Trafalgar while commanding HMS Victory, as an Admiral he had a more colourful career at sea then some captains.
    he was a true hero.

    He did not command HMS Victory. That ship merely flew his flag. He had a FLAG CAPTAIN who actually commanded his ship.

    I really wish people would understand what a Fleet commander really does and how ship commands really work.

    Example I was part of 11th MEU 2006. I was station aboard USS Peleliu LHA-5 which was the flagship of Expeditionary Strike Group 3. Aboard the Peleliu, was 11th MEU commander which was a Colonel who lead the Marines, the Peleliu's commander who was a full bird Captain, then there was the 1 star marine general who commanded the strike group(it was unusual for a marine general to be incharge instead of an admiral, but it's who we had).

    Now having laid all that out, the 1 star general DID NOT command the ship, nor did the MEU commander. THE CAPTAIN DID. The Strike group commander merely told the ship commander his marching orders on where to take the ship then got the hell out of the way while the Captain got on with the business of running HIS SHIP.

    Now how does this apply to Nelson? Nelson did NOT command Victory. Samuel Sutton was the ship's commander, Victory was just where Nelson flew his flag and commanded the FLEET, not Victory.

    Your welcome on a lesson on how flag officers and flagships work.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    The important thing is that the individual player should have the power to decide how his character is called, not a commitee of people who do not care.

    So I should be able to give my KDF officer the rank of "Lord High Poobah of the Fourteenth Dimension" for everyone else to simply deal with? I think my "individual power to decide" has to have some limitations.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    talonxv wrote: »
    I really wish people would understand what a Fleet commander really does and how ship commands really work.

    In STO, a fleet admiral solves puzzles made for 3-year olds while junior officers stand by and tell him what to do. o:)
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    talonxv wrote: »
    I really wish people would understand what a Fleet commander really does and how ship commands really work.

    In STO, a fleet admiral solves puzzles made for 3-year olds while junior officers stand by and tell him what to do. o:)

    In STO a Fleet Admiral chases bunnies for Romulans, fetches cooking ingredients for fat lazy Talaxians and bounces around asteriod in an EV suit with a large dilithium mining drill.

    he now also:

    - Plays Asteroids at K-13.
    - Chases after escaped dogs in K-13.
    - Scans for Anomalies at K-13.
    ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,117 Arc User
    nekofury86 wrote: »
    If you're looking for a true "role playing" experience, you might want to choose another game... this one is about nothing more than DPS.

    Nonsense, this game only is about nothing more than DPS if you want it to be that way.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    talonxv wrote: »
    I really wish people would understand what a Fleet commander really does and how ship commands really work.

    In STO, a fleet admiral solves puzzles made for 3-year olds while junior officers stand by and tell him what to do. o:)

    Amen. I almost want to delegate it to one of my ensigns or my Flag Lieutenant(wish we had those) and tell him "FIGURE IT OUT!"
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    talonxv wrote: »
    Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    tell that to Admiral Nelson, injured in battle and almost killed on several occasions and finally killed at Trafalgar while commanding HMS Victory, as an Admiral he had a more colourful career at sea then some captains.
    he was a true hero.

    He did not command HMS Victory. That ship merely flew his flag. He had a FLAG CAPTAIN who actually commanded his ship.

    I really wish people would understand what a Fleet commander really does and how ship commands really work.

    Example I was part of 11th MEU 2006. I was station aboard USS Peleliu LHA-5 which was the flagship of Expeditionary Strike Group 3. Aboard the Peleliu, was 11th MEU commander which was a Colonel who lead the Marines, the Peleliu's commander who was a full bird Captain, then there was the 1 star marine general who commanded the strike group(it was unusual for a marine general to be incharge instead of an admiral, but it's who we had).

    Now having laid all that out, the 1 star general DID NOT command the ship, nor did the MEU commander. THE CAPTAIN DID. The Strike group commander merely told the ship commander his marching orders on where to take the ship then got the hell out of the way while the Captain got on with the business of running HIS SHIP.

    Now how does this apply to Nelson? Nelson did NOT command Victory. Samuel Sutton was the ship's commander, Victory was just where Nelson flew his flag and commanded the FLEET, not Victory.

    Your welcome on a lesson on how flag officers and flagships work.

    Admiral Nelson was aboard the HMS Victory as explained in this line from an account of his death "As Nelson watched from the deck of the HMS Victory the battle soon turned into a confused melee of combat between individual ships." he may have had a flag captain but as Admiral he was in command of the whole fleet including the HMS Victory and there he died as the account continues "a French sharpshooter took aim at a prized target on the deck of the Victory, fired and sent a musket ball into Nelson's left shoulder. Continuing its journey, the bullet tore a path through the Admiral's upper body before smashing into his lower back. It was a mortal wound." therefore he was killed at Trafalgar while commanding HMS Victory as I stated.
    the mere fact that he was also commanding other ships in the fleet is not important for this discussion.

    and it was not Samuel Sutton who commanded the Victory but Sir Thomas Masterman Hardy as in the quote:

    "Vice-Admiral Sir Thomas Masterman Hardy, 1st Baronet GCB served as flag captain to Admiral Lord Nelson, and commanded HMS Victory at the Battle of Trafalgar in October 1805"

    so get your facts strait.

    but regardless of any of that I stand by my point that being an Admiral does not mean having a desk job.

    Your welcome on a lesson on history.
    Post edited by bobbydazlers on

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    The important thing is that the individual player should have the power to decide how his character is called, not a commitee of people who do not care.

    So I should be able to give my KDF officer the rank of "Lord High Poobah of the Fourteenth Dimension" for everyone else to simply deal with? I think my "individual power to decide" has to have some limitations.

    If you want your "individual power to decide" to have some limitations, you have the individual power to set them yourself.

    See, that's what freedom is all about.

    And that's of course before considering that the "everyone else" you're referring to are just NPCs who have to "deal with" it by automatically replacing an <insert rank here> tag in their dialogue script with the designated text. In case you haven't noticed, STO's artificial intelligence is not yet advanced enough to be capable of caring whether that replacement is "Admiral" or "Lord High Poobah of the Fourteenth Dimension." >:)
  • stormstryke2stormstryke2 Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    That ship has long sailed. Besides some of us are in RP fleets with more than one Admiral and have admirals of differing rank.

    Just wear the pips in game appropriate to your RP rank and call it a day.

    They should simply allow us to choose the rank we are called in dialouge.

    This. Also you can change your title.
Sign In or Register to comment.