The important thing is that the individual player should have the power to decide how his character is called, not a commitee of people who do not care.
So I should be able to give my KDF officer the rank of "Lord High Poobah of the Fourteenth Dimension" for everyone else to simply deal with? I think my "individual power to decide" has to have some limitations.
If you want your "individual power to decide" to have some limitations, you have the individual power to set them yourself.
See, that's what freedom is all about.
And that's of course before considering that the "everyone else" you're referring to are just NPCs who have to "deal with" it by automatically replacing an <insert rank here> tag in their dialogue script with the designated text. In case you haven't noticed, STO's artificial intelligence is not yet advanced enough to be capable of caring whether that replacement is "Admiral" or "Lord High Poobah of the Fourteenth Dimension."
It's a Star Trek game. No one in Starfleet has ever been called that. The question of "everyone being an Admiral" is a rich meaty topic that pits the specific narrative Cryptic has chosen for us against those previously created for the TV shows and movies. Can you really have a character like Admiral Kirk, but more so, as the baseline for a player character?
But that's just a question of degrees. Never has there ever been a "Lord High Poobah of the Fourteenth Dimension" rank in Starfleet, nor can that be imagined (without it being an obvious joke). You're free to call yourself whatever you like (in name) but Cryptic doesn't need to specifically violate every view of canon to give you "freedom" (because...?)
Besides, there is still the option to limit the choices of the ranks to things that seem sensible. Certainly better than having everybody address me as "Fleet Admiral" when I don't want that.
As stated, the core issue here is developing a rationalized STO universe. The shows put no obvious barrier on species, names, and backstories but the topic here isn't something you create. It's your organizational rank. You shouldn't get to write in what that should be (unless the STO universe devolves into feudal aristocracies where the player gains absolute power over their own fiefdom, but of course that's not on the table.)
However, considering what I just said about possible backstories set in the Star Trek universe, there should be some flexibility for players uncomfortable with Cryptic's exceptional player career track. Hence, the suggestion I posted for "pick your rank in dialog" (from a list of rational choices for the organization which you are a part.) Quite evidently, I have no issue with that, even for those who with the rank label turned on in their hud, because at the very least you've been those ranks before. My issue is with the not-at-all-serious idea that Cryptic should allow anything and everything because "you know what, freedom. Yeah, freedom."
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The T6 Connie made cryptic money, this is a Space Barbie request. Unless they make it an unlock in the C-Store, I highly doubt they are going to do it for you.
Wanting a majorly iconic ship != Space Barbie request. Clothing is, player housing is, but wanting the ship that kicked all of this in motion, that's just entirely right for this MMO.
P.S. I love Space Barbie! Can't see enough of her. But wanting to possess a T6 Connie ain't it. :P
The T6 Connie made cryptic money, this is a Space Barbie request. Unless they make it an unlock in the C-Store, I highly doubt they are going to do it for you.
Wanting a majorly iconic ship != Space Barbie request. Clothing is, player housing is, but wanting the ship that kicked all of this in motion, that's just entirely right for this MMO.
P.S. I love Space Barbie! Can't see enough of her. But wanting to possess a T6 Connie ain't it. :P
I think @cidjack was referring to the OP's request as a Space Barbie request not the T6 Connie.
I'm pretty sure I saw this thread on last weeks The Walking Dead
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
tell that to Admiral Nelson, injured in battle and almost killed on several occasions and finally killed at Trafalgar while commanding HMS Victory, as an Admiral he had a more colourful career at sea then some captains.
he was a true hero.
He did not command HMS Victory. That ship merely flew his flag. He had a FLAG CAPTAIN who actually commanded his ship.
I really wish people would understand what a Fleet commander really does and how ship commands really work.
Example I was part of 11th MEU 2006. I was station aboard USS Peleliu LHA-5 which was the flagship of Expeditionary Strike Group 3. Aboard the Peleliu, was 11th MEU commander which was a Colonel who lead the Marines, the Peleliu's commander who was a full bird Captain, then there was the 1 star marine general who commanded the strike group(it was unusual for a marine general to be incharge instead of an admiral, but it's who we had).
Now having laid all that out, the 1 star general DID NOT command the ship, nor did the MEU commander. THE CAPTAIN DID. The Strike group commander merely told the ship commander his marching orders on where to take the ship then got the hell out of the way while the Captain got on with the business of running HIS SHIP.
Now how does this apply to Nelson? Nelson did NOT command Victory. Samuel Sutton was the ship's commander, Victory was just where Nelson flew his flag and commanded the FLEET, not Victory.
Your welcome on a lesson on how flag officers and flagships work.
Admiral Nelson was aboard the HMS Victory as explained in this line from an account of his death "As Nelson watched from the deck of the HMS Victory the battle soon turned into a confused melee of combat between individual ships." he may have had a flag captain but as Admiral he was in command of the whole fleet including the HMS Victory and there he died as the account continues "a French sharpshooter took aim at a prized target on the deck of the Victory, fired and sent a musket ball into Nelson's left shoulder. Continuing its journey, the bullet tore a path through the Admiral's upper body before smashing into his lower back. It was a mortal wound." therefore he was killed at Trafalgar while commanding HMS Victory as I stated.
the mere fact that he was also commanding other ships in the fleet is not important for this discussion.
and it was not Samuel Sutton who commanded the Victory but Sir Thomas Masterman Hardy as in the quote:
"Vice-Admiral Sir Thomas Masterman Hardy, 1st Baronet GCB served as flag captain to Admiral Lord Nelson, and commanded HMS Victory at the Battle of Trafalgar in October 1805"
so get your facts strait.
but regardless of any of that I stand by my point that being an Admiral does not mean having a desk job.
Your welcome on a lesson on history.
But it does not mean that an Admiral sits in the Hot chair. And yes Nelson still commanded the fleet, even in the middle of the chaos of Trafalgar.
He at no point was CAPTAIN. Victory was simply where he flew his flag. And when not in that battle, guess where he was most of the time. Sitting behind a desk doing a LOT of paperwork in his office aboard ship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
My own headcanon (as mentioned in several interminable fanfics) is that our characters are potentially required to do so many different things - lead task forces, spearhead diplomatic initiatives - that they have to have a high "paper" rank, simply to command the resources they need to do the job. Well, it's the way I choose to deal with it.
Personally, I'd be fine with the "NPCs address you by your chosen title" thing. Sounds good to me.
Just look to the majority of the responses in this thread. Almost everyone would like the option to control what the NPCs call them.
While I agree that we don't have a better indicator - any numbers drawn from the forums are skewed. Participation in a thread about a single issue even more so.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Just look to the majority of the responses in this thread. Almost everyone would like the option to control what the NPCs call them.
While I agree that we don't have a better indicator - any numbers drawn from the forums are skewed. Participation in a thread about a single issue even more so.
I made a poll many moons ago. The majority of people who participared did not care, even on the forums.
So polls are valid information from the Forums, yet thread responses aren't - lol.
Polls are notoriously skewed depending on how the poll question is presented. For example, "Who wants Cryptic to spend valuable developer time on a stupid 'cosmetic' issue using player Titles for NPC dialogs?" OR "Who would like Cryptic to further enhance character customization by allowing players to choose what NPCs address them by?"
It's been quite a while. You could certainly set up a new poll. But most people only care about DPS and shinies anyway. Hence my proposal to have this earn money for Cryptic and PWE by having us pay for it.
I've always wanted the Rank Commodore, especially as I mostly fly Carriers & Dreads. I agree that STO's ranking structure, means in the STO universe, we've ended up with many more Chiefs than Indians. I Think Commodore should be the highest rank.
Still Riker was a Vice Admiral when they wanted to scrap the Enterprise and he choose it for retrofit giving us the 3 warp version that many love 'as an admiral get's to choose their ship' as he claimed.
I'll admit when they decided to increase the max level at the time I would have preferred they caped the rank structure to Vice Admiral. Still the reality is in the senior ranks your position & area of responsibility will more likely determine what command structure is followed; so even a few fleet admiral's is not a problem especially when each is responsible for an admiralty fleet.
What I'd rather like to know is why did Obrien go from Lt on Enterprise to Warrant Officer at DS9?
Why in all episode's of TNG is Data a Lt. Commander but in one episode's he wearing Lt Junior Grade pips, can anyone name the episode where this occurred and why? Was it simply a wardrobe malfunction they missed through the filming of that episode...
Commodore is basically another name for Rear Admiral Lower Half with one pip.
It's been quite a while. You could certainly set up a new poll. But most people only care about DPS and shinies anyway. Hence my proposal to have this earn money for Cryptic and PWE by having us pay for it.
Then no wonder people said no to it.
You are confusing cause and effect.
No, A leads to B, leads to C, leads to A; didn't you know that?!
I've always wanted the Rank Commodore, especially as I mostly fly Carriers & Dreads. I agree that STO's ranking structure, means in the STO universe, we've ended up with many more Chiefs than Indians. I Think Commodore should be the highest rank.
Still Riker was a Vice Admiral when they wanted to scrap the Enterprise and he choose it for retrofit giving us the 3 warp version that many love 'as an admiral get's to choose their ship' as he claimed.
I'll admit when they decided to increase the max level at the time I would have preferred they caped the rank structure to Vice Admiral. Still the reality is in the senior ranks your position & area of responsibility will more likely determine what command structure is followed; so even a few fleet admiral's is not a problem especially when each is responsible for an admiralty fleet.
What I'd rather like to know is why did Obrien go from Lt on Enterprise to Warrant Officer at DS9?
Why in all episode's of TNG is Data a Lt. Commander but in one episode's he wearing Lt Junior Grade pips, can anyone name the episode where this occurred and why? Was it simply a wardrobe malfunction they missed through the filming of that episode...
Commodore is basically another name for Rear Admiral Lower Half with one pip.
The only idea I support is the one where you select which rank you want your character to be adressed as.
So if you wanna be adressed as Captain, Admiral, Commander, or whatever... you just select the one you want.
And if you don't care what you are adressed as, don't select anything and it just uses your ingame level-rank.
That way everyone can be happy.
They could even add a few titles as what you would be adressed as.. like if you wanna be called "Agent" or "Doctor". And even ranks such as "Commodore" for those that wanna use that.
All this without changing the ingame level-rank system at all.
Seriously, its a win-win for everyone.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
As an aside, and to throw a little more fuel on the fire, in shipfaring tradition, the person who is in command of a vessel, be it a canoe or an aircraft carrier, can be called Captain no matter what their actual rank (or lack thereof) is. In such a scenario, "Captain" is treated as an honorific title, not a military rank.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
I think the O'brien rank issue was a sudden realization by the showrunners that having a ship or starbase run entirely by officers was patently ridiculous, as there were not enough ranks in the system to show a proper chain of command. That, combined with the existing title of "crewman" and the sheet numbers of people in Starfleet during the Dominion War (even a skeleton crew can number anywhere from 20-200 depending on ship size, and ships got blowed up all the time) laid the groundwork to work enlisted ranks back into the mix. Given that O'brien's job on the station was to keep the place running, much like the COB (Chief of the Boat) on a contemporary naval vessel, it makes sense that he would be aligned with that same job. Hence why he's a Senior Chief Petty Officer on DS9.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Hell yes, I want to be the guy in the fancy suit, bossing people around. What's so wrong with that? Preferable to some of the content out there (say no to ground combat!)
Definite improvement getting rid of them. Says a lot that by the 24th century nobody wants them. Even Naomi Wildman wanted to be a "Captain's Assistant".
I think the O'brien rank issue was a sudden realization by the showrunners that having a ship or starbase run entirely by officers was patently ridiculous, as there were not enough ranks in the system to show a proper chain of command. That, combined with the existing title of "crewman" and the sheet numbers of people in Starfleet during the Dominion War (even a skeleton crew can number anywhere from 20-200 depending on ship size, and ships got blowed up all the time) laid the groundwork to work enlisted ranks back into the mix. Given that O'brien's job on the station was to keep the place running, much like the COB (Chief of the Boat) on a contemporary naval vessel, it makes sense that he would be aligned with that same job. Hence why he's a Senior Chief Petty Officer on DS9.
It was a conflict of vision between Roddenberry and Berman, actually. Roddenberry insisted that in his future, college was free and available to everyone and thus everyone in Starfleet went to the Academy and were officers.
Higher Education is free in a few European countries so it is only a matter of time everyone gets free college. There is the problem with how those colleges are funded since the only options are sponsors (degrees are focused on getting a job within the sponsor's company) or government funding (higher taxes). Of course with robotic automation, we could end up with free health care, free education, free housing, free, and free food resulting in almost everyone being on Welfare. If all the "crewman" are robots in Starfleet, then it would make sense if everyone in Starfleet is an officer.
It's been quite a while. You could certainly set up a new poll. But most people only care about DPS and shinies anyway. Hence my proposal to have this earn money for Cryptic and PWE by having us pay for it.
Then no wonder people said no to it.
You are confusing cause and effect.
No I'm not. You ask people to pay for a minor detail nobody else will ever see, of course they're going to say no.
Comments
But that's just a question of degrees. Never has there ever been a "Lord High Poobah of the Fourteenth Dimension" rank in Starfleet, nor can that be imagined (without it being an obvious joke). You're free to call yourself whatever you like (in name) but Cryptic doesn't need to specifically violate every view of canon to give you "freedom" (because...?)
As stated, the core issue here is developing a rationalized STO universe. The shows put no obvious barrier on species, names, and backstories but the topic here isn't something you create. It's your organizational rank. You shouldn't get to write in what that should be (unless the STO universe devolves into feudal aristocracies where the player gains absolute power over their own fiefdom, but of course that's not on the table.)
However, considering what I just said about possible backstories set in the Star Trek universe, there should be some flexibility for players uncomfortable with Cryptic's exceptional player career track. Hence, the suggestion I posted for "pick your rank in dialog" (from a list of rational choices for the organization which you are a part.) Quite evidently, I have no issue with that, even for those who with the rank label turned on in their hud, because at the very least you've been those ranks before. My issue is with the not-at-all-serious idea that Cryptic should allow anything and everything because "you know what, freedom. Yeah, freedom."
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Wanting a majorly iconic ship != Space Barbie request. Clothing is, player housing is, but wanting the ship that kicked all of this in motion, that's just entirely right for this MMO.
P.S. I love Space Barbie!
I think @cidjack was referring to the OP's request as a Space Barbie request not the T6 Connie.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
But it does not mean that an Admiral sits in the Hot chair. And yes Nelson still commanded the fleet, even in the middle of the chaos of Trafalgar.
He at no point was CAPTAIN. Victory was simply where he flew his flag. And when not in that battle, guess where he was most of the time. Sitting behind a desk doing a LOT of paperwork in his office aboard ship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Personally, I'd be fine with the "NPCs address you by your chosen title" thing. Sounds good to me.
Ikr
Just like the T6 Connie....
...oh, wait...
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
Major difference between the T6 Connie and this request is the amount of the player base asking for it. Where is your poll?
Just look to the majority of the responses in this thread. Almost everyone would like the option to control what the NPCs call them.
And it fits right in line with the rest of Cryptic's amazing ability to customize characters.
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
While I agree that we don't have a better indicator - any numbers drawn from the forums are skewed. Participation in a thread about a single issue even more so.
So polls are valid information from the Forums, yet thread responses aren't - lol.
Polls are notoriously skewed depending on how the poll question is presented. For example, "Who wants Cryptic to spend valuable developer time on a stupid 'cosmetic' issue using player Titles for NPC dialogs?" OR "Who would like Cryptic to further enhance character customization by allowing players to choose what NPCs address them by?"
See what I mean?
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
Still Riker was a Vice Admiral when they wanted to scrap the Enterprise and he choose it for retrofit giving us the 3 warp version that many love 'as an admiral get's to choose their ship' as he claimed.
I'll admit when they decided to increase the max level at the time I would have preferred they caped the rank structure to Vice Admiral. Still the reality is in the senior ranks your position & area of responsibility will more likely determine what command structure is followed; so even a few fleet admiral's is not a problem especially when each is responsible for an admiralty fleet.
Commodore is basically another name for Rear Admiral Lower Half with one pip.
No, A leads to B, leads to C, leads to A; didn't you know that?!
My character Tsin'xing
So if you wanna be adressed as Captain, Admiral, Commander, or whatever... you just select the one you want.
And if you don't care what you are adressed as, don't select anything and it just uses your ingame level-rank.
That way everyone can be happy.
They could even add a few titles as what you would be adressed as.. like if you wanna be called "Agent" or "Doctor". And even ranks such as "Commodore" for those that wanna use that.
All this without changing the ingame level-rank system at all.
Seriously, its a win-win for everyone.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Here as Transporter Officer he wore Lieutenant pips and was first seen as an ensign on the battle bridge.
At DS9 he was a Senior Chief Petty Officer before later being promoted to Warrant Officer.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
He had YEOMEN in TOS!!! This is a duty position normally filled by enlisted personnel.
My character Tsin'xing
Hell yes, I want to be the guy in the fancy suit, bossing people around. What's so wrong with that? Preferable to some of the content out there (say no to ground combat!)
@markhawkman
Definite improvement getting rid of them. Says a lot that by the 24th century nobody wants them. Even Naomi Wildman wanted to be a "Captain's Assistant".
My character Tsin'xing
Higher Education is free in a few European countries so it is only a matter of time everyone gets free college. There is the problem with how those colleges are funded since the only options are sponsors (degrees are focused on getting a job within the sponsor's company) or government funding (higher taxes). Of course with robotic automation, we could end up with free health care, free education, free housing, free, and free food resulting in almost everyone being on Welfare. If all the "crewman" are robots in Starfleet, then it would make sense if everyone in Starfleet is an officer.
My character Tsin'xing
Why does "crewmen" need to be used for complex tasks? I am thinking more along the lines of Diagnostic Repair Drones from Farscape or Exocomps.