I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Given that you're only attacking me and what I've said, and not refuting any of the points I've made, I'm not going to waste the time...
I did not see any negative comment about you personally. Which comment are you referring to?
Don't be disingenuous, the implication is in these comments that I am someone who has commented about the OP, because I have taken issue with the OP's entitled attitude...
they said that if you have to rephrase what someone else said, or attack them personally, to be able to make a counter-argument, then you have already failed in making your case.
it seems like a lot of the people who are responding to this thread are calling the OP's request a demand, or inserting other words or ideas into the OP's thoughts that they never said. alot of people are also throwing personal attacks at the OP. all of those are signs of people who have no real argument to make.
they said that if you have to rephrase what someone else said, or attack them personally, to be able to make a counter-argument, then you have already failed in making your case.
it seems like a lot of the people who are responding to this thread are calling the OP's request a demand, or inserting other words or ideas into the OP's thoughts that they never said. alot of people are also throwing personal attacks at the OP. all of those are signs of people who have no real argument to make.
I've made no personal attacks, not one...
Stating that someone is the thing which they are, is a statement, not an attack; To call someone who is behaving in an arrogant manner, arrogant, is not an attack, it's a factual observation...
The OP's request is a demand, albeit made in a hugely passive-aggressive manner. Don't be disingenuous and try and pretend otherwise...
yeah that is definitely not a new strategy you are using. people have been insulting other people, but claiming they are just "stating a fact" by describing their behavior for...thousands of years.
"you are an idiot"
"hey, stop insulting me"
"i'm not insulting, i'm stating a fact by describing your behavior"
an insult is an insult, no matter how you try to spin it. so yeah, you are definitely resorting to personal attacks, which is a failure. and maybe you will attack me now?
Hold on. You said he "attacked" you. I'm still not seeing any "attack". Can you please explain exactly what part of what he said was an "attack"?
As a neutral party, to me it appears as though marcus is being accused of attacking the OP, then is baited into a confrontation by disecting his responses into a percieved attack, then adding to the bait by implying that marcus will attack him for doing so.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Given that you're only attacking me and what I've said, and not refuting any of the points I've made, I'm not going to waste the time...
I did not see any negative comment about you personally. Which comment are you referring to?
Don't be disingenuous, the implication is in these comments that I am someone who has commented about the OP, because I have taken issue with the OP's entitled attitude...
Hold on. You said he "attacked" you. I'm still not seeing any "attack". Can you please explain exactly what part of what he said was an "attack"?
As I said, the implication was clear, especially when my comments were directly quoted...
Given that you're only attacking me and what I've said, and not refuting any of the points I've made, I'm not going to waste the time...
I did not see any negative comment about you personally. Which comment are you referring to?
Don't be disingenuous, the implication is in these comments that I am someone who has commented about the OP, because I have taken issue with the OP's entitled attitude...
Hold on. You said he "attacked" you. I'm still not seeing any "attack". Can you please explain exactly what part of what he said was an "attack"?
As I said, the implication was clear, especially when my comments were directly quoted...
ok. so you are saying that someone "implied" that you were attacking the OP. I'm still not seeing the part where he attacked you. saying that you are attacking someone else is not an attack on you. unless you are referring to something else? an attack on you would be calling you some kind of name, like you did about the OP. arrogant. entitled. etc. where did anyone attack you?
It's already been explained to you by rattler and myself. Stop trolling...
"What I didn't put in the report was that at the end he gave me a choice - between a life of comfort or more torture. All I had to do was to say that I could see five lights when, in fact, there were only four."
"You didn't say it?"
"No! No. But I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all! But more than that, I believed that I could see five lights."
- Jean-Luc Picard and Deanna Troi
The cowering animation is over-the-top, yes, but meh, not that much of a big deal considering what she does before and later during Delta Flight: "Heralds are storming the ship? Big deal, give me a phaser rifle. What, dad? My ship is damaged? Like that's gonna stop me."
i cannot recall any examples of male starfleet officers cowering in fear with this same animation in the games other missions. can you? that is actually what made this stand out to me; i do not recall seeing it elsewhere, and it is just used for a woman in this mission.
Who even goes through these missions with "gender portrayal" in mind....
Please check the politics and political correctness at the door along with your coat and hat.
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?" -General Chang
there is a common stereotype in entertainment of a scared woman needing to be rescued by a man. i did not invent this stereotype. it has existed for hundreds of years. Miral's portral of being terrified in this mission plays into this stereotype, so i am asking they make a very small change. it does not mean i dont enjoy the game as a whole. please do not resort to any kind of personal attacks.
You are making the assumption that the person rescuing Miral is a man. The last time I ran this mission it was with a female character. In other words no, this mission does not play into any stereotypes.
With that in mind you could always make the argument that this behavior is just out of character, but that argument will always be more so an argument of personal opinions. If anything this is just another instance of older STO content using poor animations. This is not a gender related problem in any shape or form honestly.
OP, what you are asking for is called censorship. You are attempting to suppress or force a change in the story because you find it to be unacceptable.
You are free to become a writer for a game developer and write your own stories. Don't let your own personal feelings oppress someone else's freedom to do the same.
Why, if a woman shakes, she has to be in fear?
Maybe she's just ran out of alcohol.
Remember, Klingons don't get drunk, they just get less sober.
Or maybe she was hit with some kind of electrical discharge (like a modern taser), or was practicing a form of psychological judo - feigning fear and weakness in anticipation that B'Vat would let down his guard for her to strike - for that matter...
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Why, if a woman shakes, she has to be in fear?
Maybe she's just ran out of alcohol.
Remember, Klingons don't get drunk, they just get less sober.
Or maybe she was hit with some kind of electrical discharge (like a modern taser), or was practicing a form of psychological judo - feigning fear and weakness in anticipation that B'Vat would let down his guard for her to strike - for that matter...
I'll go with "B'Vat hasn't bathed for a whole year" (real Klingons at least bathe once every 6 months) so the smell was atrocious.
There are many ... strange NPC actions like this in-game due to limited animations available to the devs that build the missions. Some new animations would greatly help this, but that's probably one of, if not the, least important things to the devs right now.
OP, what you are asking for is called censorship. You are attempting to suppress or force a change in the story because you find it to be unacceptable.
You are free to become a writer for a game developer and write your own stories. Don't let your own personal feelings oppress someone else's freedom to do the same.
But didn't you know that is the way to do things now. Next thing you know the special snowflakes will be demanding Cryptic put "trigger warnings" on all content and demanding "safe spaces" in game so they aren't "offended" and "traumatized" by opposing viewpoints or some perceived "micro-aggression".
I don't care what the header says, I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor will I ever be, an "ARC user".
Why, if a woman shakes, she has to be in fear?
Maybe she's just ran out of alcohol.
Remember, Klingons don't get drunk, they just get less sober.
Or maybe she was hit with some kind of electrical discharge (like a modern taser), or was practicing a form of psychological judo - feigning fear and weakness in anticipation that B'Vat would let down his guard for her to strike - for that matter...
Or maybe the OP is overly sensitive in a way that forces gender politics into EVERYTHING!
I have no idea what gender anyone posting is. I don't care. When I do care about the differences it is usually only a difference of opinion. the rest of the so called difference is what makes us as a species AWESOME! (yes ... shouting)
I can only think of a day when we no longer have differences as being a day of apocalyptic horror. The ultimate assimilation into conformity, a death of actual true diversity that would signal the end of the evolution of creativity in the human creature!
THIS FAR AND NO FARTHER! You can have my bloodwine when you can pry it from my cold dead fingers, but before that, I wil have slugged it down with relish, and used the mug as a weapon in defence of the idea that we should never be slaves to any one idea! No matter how well intentioned!
The OP can move to an island and create their own special dictatorship, and we can put a neutral zone around it to protect the I.D.I.C. from it.
have you been in battle or have you ever had a gun pointed at your head when you are unarmed? I have, and I'm not ashamed to say I nearly fainted with fear and I'm a male. Get off your high horse, this is just a game.
OP is only making this a gender issue because Miral happens to be female, when the problem has nothing to do with her gender at all.
No, it's just a detail. Here's a character acting inconsistently (based on the chosen animation.) That said, the fact that she's female doesn't discredit the complaint. In fact, it adds context because that fact may have made it easier to make this narrative mistake. It conforms to a traditional trope in gaming (see. what the Mario franchise is ultimately about).
That's not a certainty, it's just a perspective, but people are free to take it because it's factually supportable. Debate will likely find some kind of balance between perspectives. Most probably it's just a reflex decision, and one that could easily be changed, because what we don't have in STO is a consistent pattern of this stuff happening (at least as far as I can interpret).
But if you want to pretend that the burden of proof on forum posts is so high that conjecture about gender issues can't possibly be made, then let's have a look your remark "go back to Tumblr." Even though I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, I can say that it's several orders of magnitude less justifiable than the conversation the OP tried to start.
So, just take a step back and think about the situation. A character is behaving inconsistently, the fix would only require an animation tweak, what's there to decry? Regardless of whether or not you relate to the OP's perspective, there's really no point in mindlessly digging at them for applying it. It doesn't get you anything, except replies like this.
have you been in battle or have you ever had a gun pointed at your head when you are unarmed? I have, and I'm not ashamed to say I nearly fainted with fear and I'm a male.
Take the logic one step further. If this isn't an issue (because regardless of gender people fear death) then every situation where a character wasn't shivering in a the face of a weapon is a problem. So, should cryptic make a broad "everyone should be quaking in their boots!" update to the game? No, because that would be inconsistent with how most characters have been portrayed throughout the Star Trek series (ex. Sisko, Riker, Kirk, Worf, Kira, Torres, ect.)
Some characters flinch and shiver at danger (ex. Quark, Neelix, Data+Emotions). Portraying that can make a strong statement. There's a tremendous range of variation in how people respond to danger. Even though in fiction we tend to focus on the more stalwart part of the spectrum, the true scope of humanity is still there. But each reaction is justified provided it fits its character in some way. Otherwise it's just arbitrary (ie. bad) writing with no impact whatsoever.
The point here is that Miral Paris shouldn't be shaking because that is inconsistent with her character as elsewhere presented STO and VOY. One animation is out of place, that's all. If you want to justify that oversight under the blanket statement "Don't touch a thing because she's female!" (note how you didn't mention that it was this specific character, you only made it an issue of gender) that's fine. I can't stop certain things from being said on the internet. But, from your point of view, for that statement to mean anything you will have to keep that opinion up with the rest of the game from now on.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
OP is only making this a gender issue because Miral happens to be female, when the problem has nothing to do with her gender at all.
No, it's just a detail. Here's a character acting inconsistently (based on the chosen animation.) That said, the fact that she's female doesn't discredit the complaint. In fact, it adds context because that fact may have made it easier to make this narrative mistake. It conforms to a traditional trope in gaming (see. what the Mario franchise is ultimately about).
That's not a certainty, that's speculation, but people are free to make it because it's clearly supportable with the current facts. Debate will find a more balanced middle ground. If anything it's just a reflex decision, and something that could easily be changed, because what we don't have in STO is a consistent pattern of this stuff happening (at least as far as I can interpret).
But if you want to pretend that the burden of proof on forum posts is so high that conjecture about gender issues can't possibly be raised, then let's have a look your remark "go back to Tumblr." Even though I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, I can say that it's several orders of magnitude less defensible than the conversation the OP tried to start.
So, just take a step back and think about the situation. Character behaving inconsistently, fix would only require an animation tweak, what's there to decry? Regardless of whether or not you relate to the OP's perspective on the issue, there's really no point in digging at the OP for applying it when making their complaint.
The fact that Miral is female, is irrelevant to everything... It's irrelevant to her serving as a Starfleet officer... It's irrelevant to her being the Kuvah'Magh... It's also irrelevant to the animation which was applied, because the same animation is not only used on male characters, but used inconsistently on male characters (Eraun) as I pointed out up-thread. Yet the OP made -- or rather, tried to make -- her gender a factor for consideration, by claiming that it is wrong for a 'strong female character' to behave thusly. Had the OP just said 'the character is behaving inconsistently', I would have agreed, but would also have to agree with the other comments upthread, that even the strongest and bravest person feels, and reacts to fear. So yes, it is atypical behaviour for Miral, and the reason why it's atypical, is because she's scared by the situation -- hardly unreasonable.
And yes, there is a need to confront the OP about such things, because people like the OP need to learn that they can't go through life expecting everything and everyone around then, to pander to their individual perspectives and 'triggers', or to conform to what they consider 'correct', and without a peer-based attitude-adjustment, they will just carry on in their entitled, high-handed manner, expecting everything else to conform to their viewpoint.
Comments
I brought that up earlier.
I just got overshadowed by other posts...
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Don't be disingenuous, the implication is in these comments that I am someone who has commented about the OP, because I have taken issue with the OP's entitled attitude...
As a neutral party, to me it appears as though marcus is being accused of attacking the OP, then is baited into a confrontation by disecting his responses into a percieved attack, then adding to the bait by implying that marcus will attack him for doing so.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
(and mix the sweet and salted together, please, it keeps it interesting
"You didn't say it?"
"No! No. But I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all! But more than that, I believed that I could see five lights."
- Jean-Luc Picard and Deanna Troi
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Chain_of_Command,_Part_II_(episode)
Anyone can crumble under enough stress.
You people are making me hungry!
Qapla!
Who even goes through these missions with "gender portrayal" in mind....
Please check the politics and political correctness at the door along with your coat and hat.
-General Chang
You are making the assumption that the person rescuing Miral is a man. The last time I ran this mission it was with a female character. In other words no, this mission does not play into any stereotypes.
With that in mind you could always make the argument that this behavior is just out of character, but that argument will always be more so an argument of personal opinions. If anything this is just another instance of older STO content using poor animations. This is not a gender related problem in any shape or form honestly.
Maybe she's just ran out of alcohol.
Remember, Klingons don't get drunk, they just get less sober.
They just get less sober.
You are free to become a writer for a game developer and write your own stories. Don't let your own personal feelings oppress someone else's freedom to do the same.
Or maybe she was hit with some kind of electrical discharge (like a modern taser), or was practicing a form of psychological judo - feigning fear and weakness in anticipation that B'Vat would let down his guard for her to strike - for that matter...
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I'll go with "B'Vat hasn't bathed for a whole year" (real Klingons at least bathe once every 6 months) so the smell was atrocious.
But didn't you know that is the way to do things now. Next thing you know the special snowflakes will be demanding Cryptic put "trigger warnings" on all content and demanding "safe spaces" in game so they aren't "offended" and "traumatized" by opposing viewpoints or some perceived "micro-aggression".
Or coffee ... remember Janeway and her fixation with it?
Qapla!
Or maybe the OP is overly sensitive in a way that forces gender politics into EVERYTHING!
I have no idea what gender anyone posting is. I don't care. When I do care about the differences it is usually only a difference of opinion. the rest of the so called difference is what makes us as a species AWESOME! (yes ... shouting)
I can only think of a day when we no longer have differences as being a day of apocalyptic horror. The ultimate assimilation into conformity, a death of actual true diversity that would signal the end of the evolution of creativity in the human creature!
THIS FAR AND NO FARTHER! You can have my bloodwine when you can pry it from my cold dead fingers, but before that, I wil have slugged it down with relish, and used the mug as a weapon in defence of the idea that we should never be slaves to any one idea! No matter how well intentioned!
The OP can move to an island and create their own special dictatorship, and we can put a neutral zone around it to protect the I.D.I.C. from it.
Qapla!
Please go back to Tumblr.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
No, it's just a detail. Here's a character acting inconsistently (based on the chosen animation.) That said, the fact that she's female doesn't discredit the complaint. In fact, it adds context because that fact may have made it easier to make this narrative mistake. It conforms to a traditional trope in gaming (see. what the Mario franchise is ultimately about).
That's not a certainty, it's just a perspective, but people are free to take it because it's factually supportable. Debate will likely find some kind of balance between perspectives. Most probably it's just a reflex decision, and one that could easily be changed, because what we don't have in STO is a consistent pattern of this stuff happening (at least as far as I can interpret).
But if you want to pretend that the burden of proof on forum posts is so high that conjecture about gender issues can't possibly be made, then let's have a look your remark "go back to Tumblr." Even though I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, I can say that it's several orders of magnitude less justifiable than the conversation the OP tried to start.
So, just take a step back and think about the situation. A character is behaving inconsistently, the fix would only require an animation tweak, what's there to decry? Regardless of whether or not you relate to the OP's perspective, there's really no point in mindlessly digging at them for applying it. It doesn't get you anything, except replies like this.
Take the logic one step further. If this isn't an issue (because regardless of gender people fear death) then every situation where a character wasn't shivering in a the face of a weapon is a problem. So, should cryptic make a broad "everyone should be quaking in their boots!" update to the game? No, because that would be inconsistent with how most characters have been portrayed throughout the Star Trek series (ex. Sisko, Riker, Kirk, Worf, Kira, Torres, ect.)
Some characters flinch and shiver at danger (ex. Quark, Neelix, Data+Emotions). Portraying that can make a strong statement. There's a tremendous range of variation in how people respond to danger. Even though in fiction we tend to focus on the more stalwart part of the spectrum, the true scope of humanity is still there. But each reaction is justified provided it fits its character in some way. Otherwise it's just arbitrary (ie. bad) writing with no impact whatsoever.
The point here is that Miral Paris shouldn't be shaking because that is inconsistent with her character as elsewhere presented STO and VOY. One animation is out of place, that's all. If you want to justify that oversight under the blanket statement "Don't touch a thing because she's female!" (note how you didn't mention that it was this specific character, you only made it an issue of gender) that's fine. I can't stop certain things from being said on the internet. But, from your point of view, for that statement to mean anything you will have to keep that opinion up with the rest of the game from now on.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And yes, there is a need to confront the OP about such things, because people like the OP need to learn that they can't go through life expecting everything and everyone around then, to pander to their individual perspectives and 'triggers', or to conform to what they consider 'correct', and without a peer-based attitude-adjustment, they will just carry on in their entitled, high-handed manner, expecting everything else to conform to their viewpoint.