Nope. It's the stock cowering animation. Very rarely are new animations made and essepecially not for early missions. I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with it or put in the cash or expertise for new animations.
This. STOs stock animations are derived from Champions, and they are terrible and corny all the way. They are intented as a comic book homage in Champions where it works, in STO they are just terribly bad and misplaced. Still, no new animations are made these days, we're stuck with them.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.
People are not fearless for every second of their lives. Everyone gets rattled. Even the most brave person you can imagine has been shaken up multiple times in his or her life. Expecting them to act the same all the time is insane. Nobody is like that.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?
I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.
Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.
This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.
I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.
I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.
Not bashing, nor say what's good or bad. All I'm saying if you got a power mad manic pointing a blaster at you, I highly doubt you're gonna act all John Wayne tough and defiant.
You ignored the second half of my last post. Why is Miral suddenly shaking with fear when she was not shaking with fear when confronted with Klingons with guns a few missions earlier?
it's been a while since I've done is this mission in the early parts is she armed?
Ironically, the room she is captured in is an armory. There are literally weapons all around here, and yet they portray her as shuddering with fear. It is quite sad TBH.
before she got shot? and is she armed before that at any point?
and that sarfleet captain I... questionesd abour sol systems defence codes wasn't spitting his defiance for long.
When are you saying she was shot? I don't remember seeing that.
The push back that this thread is creating is the suggestion that this was done to feed the stereotype and needs to be quashed now to help improve our society as a whole, or whatever other hyperbole I can type to swing it as aggressively the other way. That's just silly.
I haven't seen anyone say it was intentional, only that it plays into the stereotype. We all do things unintentionally, and some times we need to make adjustements when we realize how it looks.
Nope. It's the stock cowering animation. Very rarely are new animations made and essepecially not for early missions. I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with it or put in the cash or expertise for new animations.
This. STOs stock animations are derived from Champions, and they are terrible and corny all the way. They are intented as a comic book homage in Champions where it works, in STO they are just terribly bad and misplaced. Still, no new animations are made these days, we're stuck with them.
Be that as it may, that doesn't mean then change swap out the cowering animation in question with another existing animation.
don't play dumb with me it's rather rude. if she can not get to a phaser before B'vat shoots her it doesn't matter were she is.
and you still haven't answered my question is she armed at any point of time?
never mind I checked myself and it turns out she was. so there and as why she reacted diffently facing a armed and dangerous enemy is a good bit scarier when you are not and you can be sure is is not when she is kidnapped.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
and some times we need to make adjustements when we realize how it looks.
I just don't agree that this is one of those times since all other NPCs use the same animation.
Once again I feel this is an issue that breaks the immersion for some. But that the gameplay functionality supersedes the immersion issue.
That NPC is a mission objective and needs to stand out. The cowering animation achieves that objective. The suggestion given in this thread has been to change that to standing still and being stern. I feel that would make it harder to find the objective. Keep in mind this game got rid of an entire system of playable missions because people were getting lost in the exploration cluster maps, that are essentially a large box which allowed you to exit when you got close to any of the 4 sides.
Using the history of this game's development, I feel your crusade is going to be an uphill climb battling against:
1- Game functionality
2- Coding old maps
3- Time and resources to allot to the coding of old maps
Your argument that this is a big enough issue to champion above those three points doesn't sway me. It may sway the devs.
(...)
Be that as it may, that doesn't mean then change swap out the cowering animation in question with another existing animation.
I'm lobbying to remove the awkward heel-click salute emote from the game since day one. Hasn't happened and they probably will not go back and change singular cases of emotes playing. I understand why you think it is misplaced, but there are far bigger fish Cryptic needs to fry as well - like getting animations play at all in some missions.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
(...)
Be that as it may, that doesn't mean then change swap out the cowering animation in question with another existing animation.
I'm lobbying to remove the awkward heel-click salute emote from the game since day one. Hasn't happened and they probably will not go back and change singular cases of emotes playing. I understand why you think it is misplaced, but there are far bigger fish Cryptic needs to fry as well - like getting animations play at all in some missions.
The odd thing about that is that the Na'Kul in one of the AoY episodes use the Klingon chest thump. Why the hell that wasn't ported over for the KDF and RR (see 'Balance of Terror') players I'll never know.
Starfleet should just use the 'stand to attention' emote.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
edited October 2016
If I remember that mission correctly, the player character gets to Miral's location pretty much two seconds before B'vat beams her out. The fact of the matter is WE HAVE NO IDEA how long they had been fighting beforehand. She may very well have put up one helluva fight, but was overpowered by B'vat in such a way as to rattle even her courage that she displays in other missions.
Also I believe by this point word would have spread that B'vat had access to a PLANET KILLER and was WILLING TO USE IT before it was destroyed, which shows the lengths he is willing to go to get what he wants.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Check out Defera since AoY. All the Deferi that are with a group of Borg that they want to assimilate are female. When you attack, they cower (civilians, so understood), but not to be crude, the animation makes it look like they are afraid of being kicked in the n*uts. The Deferi hiding in their houses seem to be exclusively male.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The odd thing about that is that the Na'Kul in one of the AoY episodes use the Klingon chest thump. Why the hell that wasn't ported over for the KDF and RR (see 'Balance of Terror') players I'll never know.
Starfleet should just use the 'stand to attention' emote.
The update they actually finally do that shall be named "Star Trek Online: Stop that! It's silly!"
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm not against a change (because there is no change) but do take exception to someone bringing Gender Politics into a game where it's not necessary.
I am not entirely certain how to interpret your "where". If you mean that it is not necessary in this instance, I will agree. If you mean that it has no place in this game, I would strongly disagree. What you call "gender politics" has its place in any game (well, that features gendered characters, Tetris may be an exception), just as in any other media, just like other issues of treating groups.
That being said, the moment we ask for all characters to not subscribe to any stereotype of their group at all, we are in a way enforcing the stereotype. An ideal world would be where characters could be cowardish or defiant or sassy or boring regardless of what else they are.
But yes, there may be an "inconsistency" here, with Paris acting differently in different episodes (if we were to expand the choice of one of a limited set of useable animations into a full blown characterization). But then again, which character (in real life) is ALWAYS defiant, strong, funny? As they put it at TV Tropes: OOC is serious business. Don't see it as an example of a weak woman, see it as an example of somebody being in exceptional circumstances.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Wow... as has been pointed out, she's using stock animations that's used everywhere for any instance where you have someone cowering. This is beyond gender as it's a stock animation from a library of stock animations that are equally applied in appropriate situations to any character it's intended to be applied to. It's even used on our captains from time to time in a number of cutscenes. Yet where's the call, "My captain wouldn't cower like that!" Sorry, the fact that it is a stock animation invalidates any claims of impropriety in regards to specific characters or genders. No, you want immersion destroying, Tom Paris' performance in Delta Flight... seriously, did he literally phone that in? That's the only way I can explain that hot mess.
there is a common stereotype in entertainment of a scared woman needing to be rescued by a man. i did not invent this stereotype. it has existed for hundreds of years. Miral's portral of being terrified in this mission plays into this stereotype, so i am asking they make a very small change. it does not mean i dont enjoy the game as a whole. please do not resort to any kind of personal attacks.
Oh, it does? How presumptuous of the person claiming a stereotype occurs here to be playing into yet another: that every player is playing a male character during this mission. Some of use play female characters, which would be exactly opposite of this claim.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
*looks at sig*
Uh... I wasn't aware that my female Trill counted as a male character...
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
First, I think it is natural to dislike the idea of a hero character (whoever you think that is) showing any fear in the face of an enemy. We all like our heros to be brave, strong, and set a good example for others to emulate. I don't care if it is Kirk, Janeway, or whoever. On this portion I can sympathize, even if I don't consider it to be anything like important enough to do shard maintanance over. That having been said ... we go to my second thought.
The OP has politicized it! The real problem with this post isn't that a hero is cowering, I saw plenty of guys and gals cowering on Virinat when it was attacked, and if it had been the senior Paris, instead of his daughter I feel confident that we would not be here on this post! Overly sensitive rants like this do not help promote gender equality. They do however serve to prop up the stereotype of the vulnerable, needy female that needs protecting from society, because according to that stereotype, society is a rigged game where women don't stand a fair chance if we aren't always overcompensating for every little slight.
This desire for overcompensation is crippling, and hurtful to women in that it reinforces the notion that women NEED it!
I took Philosophy in college (yeah ... I went to college, hard to believe) In the class we discussed ethics, and egalitarianism, among other things. While in class one day the topic of equality drifted to fashion and clothing options for genders. At that point a woman in class said roughly the following; Men have kept women in skirts for 5,000 year so they can control them.
To recap. She didn't mean to, but basically suggested that a largely illiterate population of males successfully organized on a global scale to oppress an entire gender, and kept it up for five millennia, which BTW makes women sound completely helpless. That is what happens when you go crazy with this stuff.
Be the light you want people to see, and stop asking for someone to shine theirs on you!
To the point heroes should be represented as people we would wish to emulate, (brave, strong) I would agree. It works better. It is more pleasing.
To the point that this is somehow unfair to women, I say this whole complaint is unfair to women for making them sound like they need special defending. They don't! They are not losers or idiots any more than every other group that was left out of this request for special treatment.
Remember the I.D.I.C. Please for crying out loud, remember it!
I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?
I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.
Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.
This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.
I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.
I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.
Not bashing, nor say what's good or bad. All I'm saying if you got a power mad manic pointing a blaster at you, I highly doubt you're gonna act all John Wayne tough and defiant.
You ignored the second half of my last post. Why is Miral suddenly shaking with fear when she was not shaking with fear when confronted with Klingons with guns a few missions earlier?
it's been a while since I've done is this mission in the early parts is she armed?
Ironically, the room she is captured in is an armory. There are literally weapons all around here, and yet they portray her as shuddering with fear. It is quite sad TBH.
before she got shot? and is she armed before that at any point?
and that sarfleet captain I... questionesd abour sol systems defence codes wasn't spitting his defiance for long.
When are you saying she was shot? I don't remember seeing that.
The push back that this thread is creating is the suggestion that this was done to feed the stereotype and needs to be quashed now to help improve our society as a whole, or whatever other hyperbole I can type to swing it as aggressively the other way. That's just silly.
I haven't seen anyone say it was intentional, only that it plays into the stereotype. We all do things unintentionally, and some times we need to make adjustements when we realize how it looks.
Nope. It's the stock cowering animation. Very rarely are new animations made and essepecially not for early missions. I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with it or put in the cash or expertise for new animations.
This. STOs stock animations are derived from Champions, and they are terrible and corny all the way. They are intented as a comic book homage in Champions where it works, in STO they are just terribly bad and misplaced. Still, no new animations are made these days, we're stuck with them.
Be that as it may, that doesn't mean then change swap out the cowering animation in question with another existing animation.
According to whom? According to you? According to the OP? When something is not a serious issue, it does not need changing, and does not warrant high-handed moralistic demands for calls for such change to occur...
Let's look at my good friend, Eraun for a moment... I've played through Facility 4028, a significant amount of times, in the aim of getting all 20+ of one of my toon's BOFFs Jem'Hadar shields. I know the map backwards, and I know that it doesn't react the same way each time. Sometimes, (most times) the BOFF will get stuck in one of the various blast doors... Most times, when there is fighting, Eraun will cower (with that same stock animation) Sometimes, he'll pick up a Jem-Hadar rifle and start shooting...
The animation, as others have already pointed out, is not limited solely to female NPCs, so the premise that it is being used in a sexist/gender-biased manner, is observsbly false.
Just because the OP has chosen to find the animation 'unfortunate' (offensive/problematic/insertSJWbuzz-word here) does not make it so, and definitely doesn't mean that Cryptic have to revise the scene, or that the OP has the right to suggest (passively-aggressively insist) that they do so...
I'm not against a change (because there is no change) but do take exception to someone bringing Gender Politics into a game where it's not necessary.
I am not entirely certain how to interpret your "where". If you mean that it is not necessary in this instance, I will agree. If you mean that it has no place in this game, I would strongly disagree. What you call "gender politics" has its place in any game (well, that features gendered characters, Tetris may be an exception), just as in any other media, just like other issues of treating groups.
That being said, the moment we ask for all characters to not subscribe to any stereotype of their group at all, we are in a way enforcing the stereotype. An ideal world would be where characters could be cowardish or defiant or sassy or boring regardless of what else they are.
But yes, there may be an "inconsistency" here, with Paris acting differently in different episodes (if we were to expand the choice of one of a limited set of useable animations into a full blown characterization). But then again, which character (in real life) is ALWAYS defiant, strong, funny? As they put it at TV Tropes: OOC is serious business. Don't see it as an example of a weak woman, see it as an example of somebody being in exceptional circumstances.
Yes, that is what I meant.
Yes, it may be considered an inconsistency in Miral's behaviour. It may also be considered an example that even the bravest person can be scared... Or that it was simply a convenient way of highlighting the objective... As I said directly above, Eraun observably 'behaves inconsistently' on some passes through 4028... The OP is doing nothing more than choosing to take offense over something, and then demanding it be corrected to placate their personal viewpoint. As I said before, that is entitlement and arrogance, and as such, should never be pandered to...
It's very possible that the kidnapper did evoke fear in the victim. And so the animation isn't as unfortunate as you make it out to be. She could very well be strong and confident when facing klingons on the battlefield, but still very shaken and scared when held against her will subject to whatever evil and sadistic terrors her captor devised for her.
In terms of gaming it's likely that the cowering animation works better for player identification of the mission objective on the map than standing still and stern would.
Functionality > Your immersion.
^this pretty much nails it... there are a lot of cutscene animations that dont quite fit the situation well, but the developers made do with the arsenal they have.
they said that if you have to rephrase what someone else said, or attack them personally, to be able to make a counter-argument, then you have already failed in making your case.
it seems like a lot of the people who are responding to this thread are calling the OP's request a demand, or inserting other words or ideas into the OP's thoughts that they never said. alot of people are also throwing personal attacks at the OP. all of those are signs of people who have no real argument to make.
they said that if you have to rephrase what someone else said, or attack them personally, to be able to make a counter-argument, then you have already failed in making your case.
it seems like a lot of the people who are responding to this thread are calling the OP's request a demand, or inserting other words or ideas into the OP's thoughts that they never said. alot of people are also throwing personal attacks at the OP. all of those are signs of people who have no real argument to make.
I've made no personal attacks, not one...
Stating that someone is the thing which they are, is a statement, not an attack; To call someone who is behaving in an arrogant manner, arrogant, is not an attack, it's a factual observation...
The OP's request is a demand, albeit made in a hugely passive-aggressive manner. Don't be disingenuous and try and pretend otherwise...
they said that if you have to rephrase what someone else said, or attack them personally, to be able to make a counter-argument, then you have already failed in making your case.
it seems like a lot of the people who are responding to this thread are calling the OP's request a demand, or inserting other words or ideas into the OP's thoughts that they never said. alot of people are also throwing personal attacks at the OP. all of those are signs of people who have no real argument to make.
I've made no personal attacks, not one...
Stating that someone is the thing which they are, is a statement, not an attack; To call someone who is behaving in an arrogant manner, arrogant, is not an attack, it's a factual observation...
The OP's request is a demand, albeit made in a hugely passive-aggressive manner. Don't be disingenuous and try and pretend otherwise...
yeah that is definitely not a new strategy you are using. people have been insulting other people, but claiming they are just "stating a fact" by describing their behavior for...thousands of years.
"you are an idiot"
"hey, stop insulting me"
"i'm not insulting, i'm stating a fact by describing your behavior"
an insult is an insult, no matter how you try to spin it. so yeah, you are definitely resorting to personal attacks, which is a failure. and maybe you will attack me now?
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
yeah that is definitely not a new strategy you are using. people have been insulting other people, but claiming they are just "stating a fact" by describing their behavior for...thousands of years.
"you are an idiot"
"hey, stop insulting me"
"i'm not insulting, i'm stating a fact by describing your behavior"
an insult is an insult, no matter how you try to spin it. so yeah, you are definitely resorting to personal attacks, which is a failure. and maybe you will attack me now?
By drawing attention to how someone responds like that, you're baiting them into a fight.
I actually came up with a plausible theory further up the thread as to why Miral's not being the tough girl we've seen her to be. We only saw the very end result of her fight with B'vat, and he shook her when he overpowered her.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
they said that if you have to rephrase what someone else said, or attack them personally, to be able to make a counter-argument, then you have already failed in making your case.
it seems like a lot of the people who are responding to this thread are calling the OP's request a demand, or inserting other words or ideas into the OP's thoughts that they never said. alot of people are also throwing personal attacks at the OP. all of those are signs of people who have no real argument to make.
I've made no personal attacks, not one...
Stating that someone is the thing which they are, is a statement, not an attack; To call someone who is behaving in an arrogant manner, arrogant, is not an attack, it's a factual observation...
The OP's request is a demand, albeit made in a hugely passive-aggressive manner. Don't be disingenuous and try and pretend otherwise...
yeah that is definitely not a new strategy you are using. people have been insulting other people, but claiming they are just "stating a fact" by describing their behavior for...thousands of years.
"you are an idiot"
"hey, stop insulting me"
"i'm not insulting, i'm stating a fact by describing your behavior"
an insult is an insult, no matter how you try to spin it. so yeah, you are definitely resorting to personal attacks, which is a failure. and maybe you will attack me now?
Given that you're only attacking me and what I've said, and not refuting any of the points I've made, I'm not going to waste the time...
I hate thinking this but.....given the barbaric treatment of women in history (a story in international news today about women freed from ISIS), is it a stretch to think that more happened off screen and she is reacting to that? And that's not great, and that doesn't need to be graphically portrayed in game, but it's historically accurate and could be part of the script.
Or...this was just a poorly depicted part of the game.
Comments
This. STOs stock animations are derived from Champions, and they are terrible and corny all the way. They are intented as a comic book homage in Champions where it works, in STO they are just terribly bad and misplaced. Still, no new animations are made these days, we're stuck with them.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
don't play dumb with me it's rather rude. if she can not get to a phaser before B'vat shoots her it doesn't matter were she is.
and you still haven't answered my question is she armed at any point of time?
never mind I checked myself and it turns out she was. so there and as why she reacted diffently facing a armed and dangerous enemy is a good bit scarier when you are not and you can be sure is is not when she is kidnapped.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I just don't agree that this is one of those times since all other NPCs use the same animation.
Once again I feel this is an issue that breaks the immersion for some. But that the gameplay functionality supersedes the immersion issue.
That NPC is a mission objective and needs to stand out. The cowering animation achieves that objective. The suggestion given in this thread has been to change that to standing still and being stern. I feel that would make it harder to find the objective. Keep in mind this game got rid of an entire system of playable missions because people were getting lost in the exploration cluster maps, that are essentially a large box which allowed you to exit when you got close to any of the 4 sides.
Using the history of this game's development, I feel your crusade is going to be an uphill climb battling against:
1- Game functionality
2- Coding old maps
3- Time and resources to allot to the coding of old maps
Your argument that this is a big enough issue to champion above those three points doesn't sway me. It may sway the devs.
Good luck.
not limited to this generation had a talk with my mother that was alot like this just a few days ago.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I'm lobbying to remove the awkward heel-click salute emote from the game since day one. Hasn't happened and they probably will not go back and change singular cases of emotes playing. I understand why you think it is misplaced, but there are far bigger fish Cryptic needs to fry as well - like getting animations play at all in some missions.
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The odd thing about that is that the Na'Kul in one of the AoY episodes use the Klingon chest thump. Why the hell that wasn't ported over for the KDF and RR (see 'Balance of Terror') players I'll never know.
Starfleet should just use the 'stand to attention' emote.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Also I believe by this point word would have spread that B'vat had access to a PLANET KILLER and was WILLING TO USE IT before it was destroyed, which shows the lengths he is willing to go to get what he wants.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
what's wrong, now, gramps?
The update they actually finally do that shall be named "Star Trek Online: Stop that! It's silly!"
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I am not entirely certain how to interpret your "where". If you mean that it is not necessary in this instance, I will agree. If you mean that it has no place in this game, I would strongly disagree. What you call "gender politics" has its place in any game (well, that features gendered characters, Tetris may be an exception), just as in any other media, just like other issues of treating groups.
That being said, the moment we ask for all characters to not subscribe to any stereotype of their group at all, we are in a way enforcing the stereotype. An ideal world would be where characters could be cowardish or defiant or sassy or boring regardless of what else they are.
But yes, there may be an "inconsistency" here, with Paris acting differently in different episodes (if we were to expand the choice of one of a limited set of useable animations into a full blown characterization). But then again, which character (in real life) is ALWAYS defiant, strong, funny? As they put it at TV Tropes: OOC is serious business. Don't see it as an example of a weak woman, see it as an example of somebody being in exceptional circumstances.
Oh, it does? How presumptuous of the person claiming a stereotype occurs here to be playing into yet another: that every player is playing a male character during this mission. Some of use play female characters, which would be exactly opposite of this claim.
Uh... I wasn't aware that my female Trill counted as a male character...
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First, I think it is natural to dislike the idea of a hero character (whoever you think that is) showing any fear in the face of an enemy. We all like our heros to be brave, strong, and set a good example for others to emulate. I don't care if it is Kirk, Janeway, or whoever. On this portion I can sympathize, even if I don't consider it to be anything like important enough to do shard maintanance over. That having been said ... we go to my second thought.
The OP has politicized it! The real problem with this post isn't that a hero is cowering, I saw plenty of guys and gals cowering on Virinat when it was attacked, and if it had been the senior Paris, instead of his daughter I feel confident that we would not be here on this post! Overly sensitive rants like this do not help promote gender equality. They do however serve to prop up the stereotype of the vulnerable, needy female that needs protecting from society, because according to that stereotype, society is a rigged game where women don't stand a fair chance if we aren't always overcompensating for every little slight.
This desire for overcompensation is crippling, and hurtful to women in that it reinforces the notion that women NEED it!
I took Philosophy in college (yeah ... I went to college, hard to believe) In the class we discussed ethics, and egalitarianism, among other things. While in class one day the topic of equality drifted to fashion and clothing options for genders. At that point a woman in class said roughly the following; Men have kept women in skirts for 5,000 year so they can control them.
To recap. She didn't mean to, but basically suggested that a largely illiterate population of males successfully organized on a global scale to oppress an entire gender, and kept it up for five millennia, which BTW makes women sound completely helpless. That is what happens when you go crazy with this stuff.
Be the light you want people to see, and stop asking for someone to shine theirs on you!
To the point heroes should be represented as people we would wish to emulate, (brave, strong) I would agree. It works better. It is more pleasing.
To the point that this is somehow unfair to women, I say this whole complaint is unfair to women for making them sound like they need special defending. They don't! They are not losers or idiots any more than every other group that was left out of this request for special treatment.
Remember the I.D.I.C. Please for crying out loud, remember it!
Qapla!
Let's look at my good friend, Eraun for a moment... I've played through Facility 4028, a significant amount of times, in the aim of getting all 20+ of one of my toon's BOFFs Jem'Hadar shields. I know the map backwards, and I know that it doesn't react the same way each time. Sometimes, (most times) the BOFF will get stuck in one of the various blast doors... Most times, when there is fighting, Eraun will cower (with that same stock animation) Sometimes, he'll pick up a Jem-Hadar rifle and start shooting...
The animation, as others have already pointed out, is not limited solely to female NPCs, so the premise that it is being used in a sexist/gender-biased manner, is observsbly false.
Just because the OP has chosen to find the animation 'unfortunate' (offensive/problematic/insertSJWbuzz-word here) does not make it so, and definitely doesn't mean that Cryptic have to revise the scene, or that the OP has the right to suggest (passively-aggressively insist) that they do so...
Yes, it may be considered an inconsistency in Miral's behaviour. It may also be considered an example that even the bravest person can be scared... Or that it was simply a convenient way of highlighting the objective... As I said directly above, Eraun observably 'behaves inconsistently' on some passes through 4028... The OP is doing nothing more than choosing to take offense over something, and then demanding it be corrected to placate their personal viewpoint. As I said before, that is entitlement and arrogance, and as such, should never be pandered to...
^this pretty much nails it... there are a lot of cutscene animations that dont quite fit the situation well, but the developers made do with the arsenal they have.
they said that if you have to rephrase what someone else said, or attack them personally, to be able to make a counter-argument, then you have already failed in making your case.
it seems like a lot of the people who are responding to this thread are calling the OP's request a demand, or inserting other words or ideas into the OP's thoughts that they never said. alot of people are also throwing personal attacks at the OP. all of those are signs of people who have no real argument to make.
Stating that someone is the thing which they are, is a statement, not an attack; To call someone who is behaving in an arrogant manner, arrogant, is not an attack, it's a factual observation...
The OP's request is a demand, albeit made in a hugely passive-aggressive manner. Don't be disingenuous and try and pretend otherwise...
yeah that is definitely not a new strategy you are using. people have been insulting other people, but claiming they are just "stating a fact" by describing their behavior for...thousands of years.
"you are an idiot"
"hey, stop insulting me"
"i'm not insulting, i'm stating a fact by describing your behavior"
an insult is an insult, no matter how you try to spin it. so yeah, you are definitely resorting to personal attacks, which is a failure. and maybe you will attack me now?
By drawing attention to how someone responds like that, you're baiting them into a fight.
I actually came up with a plausible theory further up the thread as to why Miral's not being the tough girl we've seen her to be. We only saw the very end result of her fight with B'vat, and he shook her when he overpowered her.
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And that's not great, and that doesn't need to be graphically portrayed in game, but it's historically accurate and could be part of the script.
Or...this was just a poorly depicted part of the game.