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a very unfortunate portrayal of a strong female character in game

umformtechnik#9538 umformtechnik Member Posts: 88 Arc User
in the mission "City on the Edge of Never" Miral Paris is kidnapped by a Klingon. in the cutscene where he beams her off the ship, she is shown literally shaking with fear. the fact that Miral Paris is a Starfleet officer and has already fought Klingons by your side with no sign of fear only a few missions ago makes this...strange. the fact that this is also a female character makes this...very unfortunate. there is no reason Miral Paris should be shaking with fear even in a dangerous situation so please correct this unfortunate portrayal.
Post edited by umformtechnik#9538 on
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Comments

  • tacticalrooktacticalrook Member Posts: 810 Arc User
    Good luck, friend.
    /channel_join grind
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    I can think of two reasons;
    1. Limited animations always make this kind of thing spotty.
    2. She's not scared of the Klingons as much as she is of the Guardian - especially if she had to study Kirk and Spock's encounter (encounters, if one includes TAS) with it at the Academy - because she knows what it's capable of and what could happen if she says or does the slightest thing wrong.

    Probably more of 1 than 2.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • umformtechnik#9538 umformtechnik Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    I can think of two reasons;
    1. Limited animations always make this kind of thing spotty.
    2. She's not scared of the Klingons as much as she is of the Guardian - especially if she had to study Kirk and Spock's encounter (encounters, if one includes TAS) with it at the Academy - because she knows what it's capable of and what could happen if she says or does the slightest thing wrong.

    Probably more of 1 than 2.

    1. in this case no animation would be better than a bad choice that makes her look like some bad stereotype of a scared woman. they could have even given her a stern arms crossed animation to show her standing up to the kidnapper, but instead decided to make her look terrified.

    2. at this point in this mission she has not been brought to the guardian. this is the cut scene where she is being beamed off the federation ship.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    It's very possible that the kidnapper did evoke fear in the victim. And so the animation isn't as unfortunate as you make it out to be. She could very well be strong and confident when facing klingons on the battlefield, but still very shaken and scared when held against her will subject to whatever evil and sadistic terrors her captor devised for her.

    In terms of gaming it's likely that the cowering animation works better for player identification of the mission objective on the map than standing still and stern would.

    Functionality > Your immersion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    in the mission "City on the Edge of Never" Miral Paris is kidnapped by a Klingon. in the cutscene where he beams her off the ship, she is shown literally shaking with fear. the fact that Miral Paris is a Starfleet officer and has already fought Klingons by your side with no sign of fear only a few missions ago makes this...strange. the fact that this is also a female character makes this...very unfortunate. there is no reason Miral Paris should be shaking with fear even in a dangerous situation so please correct this unfortunate portrayal.
    Oh?? Would it be less...unfortunate, if a male character was to behave thus?

    Yes, it is an uncharacteristic response for Miral to display. There was no need, and there is no need, for you to bring SJW Gender Politics into the equation... The fact that she is female is irrelevent toher position as either a Starfleet officer or as the kuvah'magh, so why have you brought gender into the equation and then try and base an objection upon it?? It's just a game... If you roll a female Agent of Yesterday toon, then the storyline will show her getting punched down by a Klingon! It's abuse of a woman! (sarc) If you roll a male toon, he gets hit on by the Andorian delegate! It's just a game... Turn off the PC over-thinking, and just enjoy it... If you don't enjoy it, then don't play...
  • umformtechnik#9538 umformtechnik Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    It's very possible that the kidnapper did evoke fear in the victim. And so the animation isn't as unfortunate as you make it out to be. She could very well be strong and confident when facing klingons on the battlefield, but still very shaken and scared when held against her will subject to whatever evil and sadistic terrors her captor devised for her.

    this cutscene is the actual moment of her kidnapping. it is still essentially the "battlfield" and there has been no time for her to learn what her captors intentions are. please dont make poor excuses for a bad stereotype.
  • umformtechnik#9538 umformtechnik Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    in the mission "City on the Edge of Never" Miral Paris is kidnapped by a Klingon. in the cutscene where he beams her off the ship, she is shown literally shaking with fear. the fact that Miral Paris is a Starfleet officer and has already fought Klingons by your side with no sign of fear only a few missions ago makes this...strange. the fact that this is also a female character makes this...very unfortunate. there is no reason Miral Paris should be shaking with fear even in a dangerous situation so please correct this unfortunate portrayal.
    Oh?? Would it be less...unfortunate, if a male character was to behave thus?

    Yes, it is an uncharacteristic response for Miral to display. There was no need, and there is no need, for you to bring SJW Gender Politics into the equation... The fact that she is female is irrelevent toher position as either a Starfleet officer or as the kuvah'magh, so why have you brought gender into the equation and then try and base an objection upon it?? It's just a game... If you roll a female Agent of Yesterday toon, then the storyline will show her getting punched down by a Klingon! It's abuse of a woman! (sarc) If you roll a male toon, he gets hit on by the Andorian delegate! It's just a game... Turn off the PC over-thinking, and just enjoy it... If you don't enjoy it, then don't play...

    there is a common stereotype in entertainment of a scared woman needing to be rescued by a man. i did not invent this stereotype. it has existed for hundreds of years. Miral's portral of being terrified in this mission plays into this stereotype, so i am asking they make a very small change. it does not mean i dont enjoy the game as a whole. please do not resort to any kind of personal attacks.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,409 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    The cowering animation is over-the-top, yes, but meh, not that much of a big deal considering what she does before and later during Delta Flight: "Heralds are storming the ship? Big deal, give me a phaser rifle. What, dad? My ship is damaged? Like that's gonna stop me."
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • umformtechnik#9538 umformtechnik Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    The cowering animation is over-the-top, yes, but meh, not that much of a big deal considering what she does before and later during Delta Flight: "Heralds are storming the ship? Big deal, give me a phaser rifle. What, dad? My ship is damaged? Like that's gonna stop me."

    i cannot recall any examples of male starfleet officers cowering in fear with this same animation in the games other missions. can you? that is actually what made this stand out to me; i do not recall seeing it elsewhere, and it is just used for a woman in this mission.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    in the mission "City on the Edge of Never" Miral Paris is kidnapped by a Klingon. in the cutscene where he beams her off the ship, she is shown literally shaking with fear. the fact that Miral Paris is a Starfleet officer and has already fought Klingons by your side with no sign of fear only a few missions ago makes this...strange. the fact that this is also a female character makes this...very unfortunate. there is no reason Miral Paris should be shaking with fear even in a dangerous situation so please correct this unfortunate portrayal.
    Oh?? Would it be less...unfortunate, if a male character was to behave thus?

    Yes, it is an uncharacteristic response for Miral to display. There was no need, and there is no need, for you to bring SJW Gender Politics into the equation... The fact that she is female is irrelevent toher position as either a Starfleet officer or as the kuvah'magh, so why have you brought gender into the equation and then try and base an objection upon it?? It's just a game... If you roll a female Agent of Yesterday toon, then the storyline will show her getting punched down by a Klingon! It's abuse of a woman! (sarc) If you roll a male toon, he gets hit on by the Andorian delegate! It's just a game... Turn off the PC over-thinking, and just enjoy it... If you don't enjoy it, then don't play...

    there is a common stereotype in entertainment of a scared woman needing to be rescued by a man. i did not invent this stereotype. it has existed for hundreds of years. Miral's portral of being terrified in this mission plays into this stereotype, so i am asking they make a very small change. it does not mean i dont enjoy the game as a whole. please do not resort to any kind of personal attacks.
    in the mission "City on the Edge of Never" Miral Paris is kidnapped by a Klingon. in the cutscene where he beams her off the ship, she is shown literally shaking with fear. the fact that Miral Paris is a Starfleet officer and has already fought Klingons by your side with no sign of fear only a few missions ago makes this...strange. the fact that this is also a female character makes this...very unfortunate. there is no reason Miral Paris should be shaking with fear even in a dangerous situation so please correct this unfortunate portrayal.
    Oh?? Would it be less...unfortunate, if a male character was to behave thus?

    Yes, it is an uncharacteristic response for Miral to display. There was no need, and there is no need, for you to bring SJW Gender Politics into the equation... The fact that she is female is irrelevent toher position as either a Starfleet officer or as the kuvah'magh, so why have you brought gender into the equation and then try and base an objection upon it?? It's just a game... If you roll a female Agent of Yesterday toon, then the storyline will show her getting punched down by a Klingon! It's abuse of a woman! (sarc) If you roll a male toon, he gets hit on by the Andorian delegate! It's just a game... Turn off the PC over-thinking, and just enjoy it... If you don't enjoy it, then don't play...

    there is a common stereotype in entertainment of a scared woman needing to be rescued by a man. i did not invent this stereotype. it has existed for hundreds of years. Miral's portral of being terrified in this mission plays into this stereotype, so i am asking they make a very small change. it does not mean i dont enjoy the game as a whole. please do not resort to any kind of personal attacks.
    And what? Why should the game be re-coded just because you take objection to it?? Check your entitlement...

    As for 'personal attacks'; it's no 'attack' to point out the hypocrisy of your statement. You are judging the behaviour of the character because of her gender. If it was a male character, the behaviour would be just as incongruous, but I doubt you would be as inclined to pass comment as you have. You brought gender into the equation, don't try and claim victim-status when others don't share your viewpoint, and point out the flaw of your argument... It's a sloppy reuse of a stock animation... Get over it...
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,409 Arc User
    The cowering animation is over-the-top, yes, but meh, not that much of a big deal considering what she does before and later during Delta Flight: "Heralds are storming the ship? Big deal, give me a phaser rifle. What, dad? My ship is damaged? Like that's gonna stop me."

    i cannot recall any examples of male starfleet officers cowering in fear with this same animation in the games other missions. can you? that is actually what made this stand out to me; i do not recall seeing it elsewhere, and it is just used for a woman in this mission.
    Actually, I do.

    Not necessarily using the cowering animation, but being scared out of their mind they're unable to do anything so you can rescue them.
    From memory:
    -the officer in the Vault during Vorgon Conclusions, telling you to rescue scientists (who are led by a female one and kicking TRIBBLE, BTW)
    -Rraak, twice, one during the tutorial, the other during Surface Tension before Tuvok mind-melds with him
    -Scotty during Night of the Comet (granted, he has an excuse since this is towards Devidians, though you could expect him to grab a phaser to help)
    -and several officers from the removed missions.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • crm14916crm14916 Member Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    Welp, can't please everyone...
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
  • stobg2015stobg2015 Member Posts: 800 Arc User
    Accepting for the moment that it is stereotyping, factoring in that the whole storyline is about Miral Paris (a female) who cannot be simply replaced with any other character, and that the storyline requires her abduction through the Guardian...

    What animation would you propose they substitute? It has to be an animation that already exists (barring a revamp) and it has to be situation appropriate.
    (The Guy Formerly And Still Known As Bluegeek)
  • mrtrexy#6456 mrtrexy Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    I have a few different reactions to this thread:

    1. this is not a "big deal", but I can see the logic. It does seem out of place and like a stereotype.

    2. I find it odd how some people seem SO against this change. It is almost like they would prefer Miral being terrified to Miral being defiant, which seems more in line with her character.

    3. while this is not some "big deal", neither are 99% of the changes people request, so it's not like someone asking for something trivial to be done is unusual on the forums.

    stobg2015 wrote: »
    Accepting for the moment that it is stereotyping, factoring in that the whole storyline is about Miral Paris (a female) who cannot be simply replaced with any other character, and that the storyline requires her abduction through the Guardian...

    What animation would you propose they substitute? It has to be an animation that already exists (barring a revamp) and it has to be situation appropriate.

    The OP already suggested an arms crossed, defiant animation. I'm pretty sure that already exists.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    I have a few different reactions to this thread:

    1. this is not a "big deal", but I can see the logic. It does seem out of place and like a stereotype.

    2. I find it odd how some people seem SO against this change. It is almost like they would prefer Miral being terrified to Miral being defiant, which seems more in line with her character.

    3. while this is not some "big deal", neither are 99% of the changes people request, so it's not like someone asking for something trivial to be done is unusual on the forums.

    stobg2015 wrote: »
    Accepting for the moment that it is stereotyping, factoring in that the whole storyline is about Miral Paris (a female) who cannot be simply replaced with any other character, and that the storyline requires her abduction through the Guardian...

    What animation would you propose they substitute? It has to be an animation that already exists (barring a revamp) and it has to be situation appropriate.

    The OP already suggested an arms crossed, defiant animation. I'm pretty sure that already exists.
    I'm not against a change (because there is no change) but do take exception to someone bringing Gender Politics into a game where it's not necessary. It's making an argument for the sake of arguing, which I find tedious, and it's entitled to presume that 'raising an objection' willl result in a change being enacted, which I find arrogant and distasteful...

    An arms-crossed, defiant pose would not really fit. A struggling against the kidnapper would fit, but would require significant recoding, which as above, Cryptic should not be expected to undertake just because someone's Gender Politics have been triggered...
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Nope. It's the stock cowering animation. Very rarely are new animations made and essepecially not for early missions. I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with it or put in the cash or expertise for new animations.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


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    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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  • stobg2015stobg2015 Member Posts: 800 Arc User
    The OP already suggested an arms crossed, defiant animation. I'm pretty sure that already exists.

    I'm okay with that, but would also like to see an animation of B'vat covering her with a disruptor to reinforce the fact that she is a captive. Don't recall what animation they have on him.
    (The Guy Formerly And Still Known As Bluegeek)
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,668 Arc User
    I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the TRIBBLE mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?


    I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.

    Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,668 Arc User
    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!!!!!
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • mrtrexy#6456 mrtrexy Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?


    I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.

    Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.


    This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.

    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.

    I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,668 Arc User
    I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?


    I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.

    Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.


    This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.

    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.

    I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.

    Not bashing, nor say what's good or bad. All I'm saying if you got a power mad manic pointing a blaster at you, I highly doubt you're gonna act all John Wayne tough and defiant.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • mrtrexy#6456 mrtrexy Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?


    I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.

    Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.


    This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.

    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.

    I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.

    Not bashing, nor say what's good or bad. All I'm saying if you got a power mad manic pointing a blaster at you, I highly doubt you're gonna act all John Wayne tough and defiant.

    You ignored the second half of my last post. Why is Miral suddenly shaking with fear when she was not shaking with fear when confronted with Klingons with guns a few missions earlier?
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?


    I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.

    Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.


    This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.

    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.

    I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.

    Not bashing, nor say what's good or bad. All I'm saying if you got a power mad manic pointing a blaster at you, I highly doubt you're gonna act all John Wayne tough and defiant.

    You ignored the second half of my last post. Why is Miral suddenly shaking with fear when she was not shaking with fear when confronted with Klingons with guns a few missions earlier?

    it's been a while since I've done is this mission in the early parts is she armed?


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    It's very possible that the kidnapper did evoke fear in the victim. And so the animation isn't as unfortunate as you make it out to be. She could very well be strong and confident when facing klingons on the battlefield, but still very shaken and scared when held against her will subject to whatever evil and sadistic terrors her captor devised for her.

    this cutscene is the actual moment of her kidnapping. it is still essentially the "battlfield" and there has been no time for her to learn what her captors intentions are. please dont make poor excuses for a bad stereotype.

    Tell you what, I'll make you a deal. I'll stop making excuses for bad stereotypes if you stop turning functioning video game mechanics into bad stereotypes that aren't there.

    As I stated, it's likely there for objective placement on the mission map. And that functionality supersedes your immersion in the story. They could go one step further and make her glow. Perhaps on a future revision pass they will. But the goal here as a designer is to let the player know that Miral is the objective and she stands out by being different. Your suggestion to make her standing there stern would defeat the design intent. The designers are doing everything they can to make the objective capable of being found. Which can take the form of a question mark on top of the object, make it glow, make it move (in this case cower in fear), and even some games go so far as to make a bright path with arrows and blinking things leading directly to the object.

    That's all this is.

    Stop projecting anything else into it. We cool?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,668 Arc User
    I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?


    I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.

    Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.


    This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.

    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.

    I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.

    Not bashing, nor say what's good or bad. All I'm saying if you got a power mad manic pointing a blaster at you, I highly doubt you're gonna act all John Wayne tough and defiant.

    You ignored the second half of my last post. Why is Miral suddenly shaking with fear when she was not shaking with fear when confronted with Klingons with guns a few missions earlier?

    She possibly might have realized, "oh TRIBBLE!!!!, it's me they want!" and seeing how Klingons treat prisoners....either sent to work in the mines of a prison planet till they die, or down right snuffed out, I'd probably be shaking, too.
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  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    nightken wrote: »
    I disagree. Being a transgirl, I've seen the **** mentalities of what is considered 'strong' or 'weak', and what gender needs to do such and such, or no way at all, being shoved down folk's throats all the time. That, a strong character, especially a girl, needs to have, as mentioned,arms crossed, defiant stance at everything. Same for the boys, having to have this 'tough as nails' super macho mentality, otherwise you're pansy/poof/sissy. I seen male characters in game with the same animation Miss. Paris did, does that make THEM weak or something?


    I have no problem with the animation being used....sure, she's Starfleet...so what? Let's see YOU react to a 6 foot 5, muscly Klingon, with a great big gun and or knife pointing at you, especially if she saw some of her fellow crewmen, and friends, mind you, getting their innards splattered on the wall from by the gun, or their throats slit ear to ear. Klingons, especially ones like B'vat, going "by any means necessary", tend to evoke a feeling a death. And if you got a manic, as big and as bad as B'vat, pointing a weapon at you, less than a foot or two away, you don't try the chest beating, machismo BS.

    Excuse me while I face slam my keyboard after reading this thread.


    This post literally made me laugh out loud, because it shows just how hopeless our society has become. You have the OP trying to fight against a negative female stereotype, then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.

    I guess the OP missed the part where both male and female Kobali soldiers were cowering and crouching in terror on Kobali Prime.

    I take it you did not actually read the OP? Their point was that this very same character was brave fighting against the Klingons on a few missions earlier, and now they are suddenly a coward. It makes no sense. Your example doesn't relate to that point.

    Not bashing, nor say what's good or bad. All I'm saying if you got a power mad manic pointing a blaster at you, I highly doubt you're gonna act all John Wayne tough and defiant.

    You ignored the second half of my last post. Why is Miral suddenly shaking with fear when she was not shaking with fear when confronted with Klingons with guns a few missions earlier?

    it's been a while since I've done is this mission in the early parts is she armed?

    Ironically, the room she is captured in is an armory. There are literally weapons all around here, and yet they portray her as shuddering with fear. It is quite sad TBH.

    before she got shot? and is she armed before that at any point?

    and that sarfleet captain I... questionesd abour sol systems defence codes wasn't spitting his defiance for long.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    then you have other people bashing them and claiming that stereotype is a good thing. It's ridiculous.

    No one's claiming the stereotype is a good thing. The crux of the argument is that people feel it is misplaced here. It's a video game with specific functionality requirements in its design and its a pretty shallow story. The cower animation exists and is used in a lot of places in the game. To show a specific effect. In some spots it can be tone deaf or heavy handed. In others, it isn't.

    The push back that this thread is creating is the suggestion that this was done to feed the stereotype and needs to be quashed now to help improve our society as a whole, or whatever other hyperbole I can type to swing it as aggressively the other way. That's just silly.

    Use common sense. The animation exists in the game to show an NPC is cowering. NPCs are just pixels and objects. In a game. There is still that very real disconnect that does exist. You have to suspend your disbelief to "immerse" yourself into the game. But the immersion gets broken. And that's all that is happening here. Some peoples' immersion is being broken by a graphics/animation limitation.

    If they fix it, great. If not, oh well.

    But yeah, it's a thread that's going to incite debate because you're really struggling to assign a political agenda to what is essentially a game design issue. You ever notice the CARNIVEROUS plants that used to be in the exploration missions ...

    1- Were never carnivorous
    2- Never moved, stayed stern and stock still like the OP suggests
    3- Were hard to find because of that, so had to be made to GLOW?

    This isn't the gender politics issue it's being made out to be. NPCs of all types cower when given that animation.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This discussion has been closed.