I want to urge everyone again to try and pretend that you're a Vulcan, that you're like Spock. Try to approach the subject from a perspective of detachment, try to forget what you want for yourself, or what would make you, personally, the happiest.
From this perspective, this objective perspective, the RNG mechanic is clearly the best option for the game.
It leads to three good outcomes, all at once.
1. The ship remains both rare and desirable
2. Everyone has a chance to get it
3. Cryptic prospers
There are more virtues to the system - for example, it stimulates an in-game economy, it is generously free to play, and it excites people - but the main three points above are sufficient in themselves to show clearly that cryptic has made, and continues to make, the right choice.
I don't see how this is good.
1. Rare, means not everyone will get it. And many will be left out. Too rare makes it undesirable cause its too hard to obtain. As in this case.
2. Chance with a low return of getting it. So many will spend resources and not get it. Thus making them feel robbed/cheated
3. Good for them they keep the game going. At the expense of others, and many didn't get what they wanted.
As for me, my right choice is to no longer pay for their stupid lottery boxes and promos. So I can make sure I get what I'm wanting.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
For the most part, people that always really wanted an end-game Constitution (and if the Stats were good), couldn't care if the ship released was rare or not. They just want the bloody ship.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
They would be robbing people of the great satisfaction of wanting something, coveting it, earning it, then taking great pride in owning it.
Yeah, I'm sure the majority of the people that want to get the ship but can't get it becuase thats how these things ACTUALLY WORK, are totally going to take satisfaction in seeing something they can't ever have.
I want to urge everyone again to try and pretend that you're a Vulcan, that you're like Spock. Try to approach the subject from a perspective of detachment, try to forget what you want for yourself, or what would make you, personally, the happiest.
Point One:
During the "expansion" of the lockbox system which resulted in the opening of the lobi store, there was an amount of... worry... that the "expensive" system of lockboxing or pricing ships in lobi would be applied to future "desirable" and "factional" releases, such as the remaining "iconic" ships that had yet to be released in-game.
Cryptic replied that "The C-store will remain, and shall forever be, the singular place to purchase all factional ship designs".
Point Two:
No C-store ship has ever had it's "upgrade" locked into a lockbox / Lobi store / promo. All Tier 2 and Tier 3 designs that "were approved" for upgrade were placed into the Fleet Shipyards. The only one of these 6 ships to not receive a fleet variant was the T2 "Cruiser" and it's C-store variant, being that the Tier 2 Cruisers are "the Constitution Class Refit" and/or alternate part skins of the same design (Exeter is pretty much a Connie done up in Excelsior parts, Excalibur a Connie with TNG-ish parts).
Point Three:
The KDF has been allowed to fly their TOS skin, aka the D7 class, at "endgame" as an alternate skin to the T5 "Fleet" K'Tinga. Granted, this ship is one of the many KDF ships that do not have a C-store variant to provide a "discount" for, but it exists none-the-less.
Point Four:
The lack of accessing the T'Liss skin on the T5 (and eventual T6) T'Varo was noted by the playerbase but never formally answered by Cryptic. Many assume "oversight", many assume "done not to tick off Feddie Bears who want a T-endgame Connie".
Point Five:
The Original Series Ships are the "standard" for ship designs - every "canon" ship can trace significant elements of it's construction/design back to the respective faction's original ship - excepting the Defiant and the Romulan departure from "teardrops" to "avian shaped" ships - but even then, there's a big touch of "we learned from the Klingons when we got a bunch of their D7s as depicted in TOS" in the Romulan themes...
Point Six:
There has been no "official" retraction from any of these stances posted on the "official" site, while the biggest "retraction" to date - the changes in acquiring event starships, was.
Point Seven:
Lying is illogical. It exists to salve/avoid emotional responses. Logic is supposed to be "non-emotional". This is why Vulcans always speak the truth.
Points one and seven alone are enough "logic" to support a C-store release. Points 2-6 exist to reinforce the precedent that Point 1 is supposed to enforce. To suddenly "break precedent" is illogical, in it's own way, as well.
There. You have my "Spock like" reasons that the C-store is better than the current alternative.
Point Eight:
The "logic train" in support of "rare and desirable" is invoked by Ferengi and/or other "market manipulators" in an effort to either artificially inflate the market (a known method of "artificially increasing the sale price") and/or convince others to part with the significant sums of wealth that the Ferengi / "market manipulator" / greedy exemplar of choice so desire.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
They would be robbing people of the great satisfaction of wanting something, coveting it, earning it, then taking great pride in owning it.
Yeah, I'm sure the majority of the people that want to get the ship but can't get it becuase thats how these things ACTUALLY WORK, are totally going to take satisfaction in seeing something they can't ever have.
If you want it enough, you can earn it.
If you barely play STO anyway then you probably don't actually want it very much.
I can agree with this statement, even if I want to see the Connie be available in the C-store. I am reminded of a certain someone (who I will not name) that whined every time he logged in about how he'd die before ever getting enough ec to buy a rare ship.
People that think the price is too steep and can't justify buying one outright with ec, fair enough. But it's not fair to say that it's equivalent to "Let them eat cake." If you've got the money but not time, then pay for it. If you've got the time but not the money, earn it. If you have neither, then move on with your life. Don't let something as trivial as a game get in the way.
People that think the price is too steep and can't justify buying one outright with ec,
1.5 billion is too steep, there is no thinking about it. If you want more EC than a player can actually have and want 10 master keys to get past that YOU WANT TOO MUCH.
Someone claiming they cost that much is probably trying to trick you into paying that much!
Actually the reddit posts were suggesting to the seller how much to ask for by pointing out what they were selling for and was probably giving a better picture than what you see some random guys doing it for as it was from multiple people.
And the general picture came off as prices are going up.
If you're going to think like a Vulcan, you've gotta start reading carefully, and being even more careful about what you're willing to claim.
Says the guy going by personal anecdote. where as I provided a source even if I was off by 400 million, Guess what it still comes out to higher than the player cap on EC and asking for 20 Master keys (their $5m a pop right now so getting 100m is 20).
And can come out to $170 or almost 6 times the cost of a T6 ship. And thats assuming promo packs don't start going cheaper.
They would be robbing people of the great satisfaction of wanting something, coveting it, earning it, then taking great pride in owning it.
Yeah, I'm sure the majority of the people that want to get the ship but can't get it becuase thats how these things ACTUALLY WORK, are totally going to take satisfaction in seeing something they can't ever have.
I agree, players who wanted this ship for a long time. Seeing their chance to get it is now gone. Due to they have to play the lottery by throwing $ at a gimmick. Open tons of boxes with no luck. Or to be robbed by the other players in EC. You can't find logic or a feeling of "earning" on this.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
They would be robbing people of the great satisfaction of wanting something, coveting it, earning it, then taking great pride in owning it.
Yeah, I'm sure the majority of the people that want to get the ship but can't get it becuase thats how these things ACTUALLY WORK, are totally going to take satisfaction in seeing something they can't ever have.
If you want it enough, you can earn it.
If you barely play STO anyway then you probably don't actually want it very much.
That is just a horrible response. Stating you don't get it over how much you play is not a good comparison. This is basically slapping the others in the face over their playing time. There is a lot that can't sit here and play hours on ends as they live in their parents basement.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
You did none of this and anyone else who got the ship. So I bought 9 boxes, therefore I earned a ship. I didn't so I got robbed. Same goes for others who bought 100s and still no ship. As you can't earn one through a lottery.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
You did none of this and anyone else who got the ship. So I bought 9 boxes, therefore I earned a ship. I didn't so I got robbed. Same goes for others who bought 100s and still no ship. As you can't earn one through a lottery.
Let me make you a proposal. I've got 3 of the ships currently, I will sell you one for 1 billion ec.
So, you go earn 1 billion ec, getting in return for work or services you do, and then come to me and give me the 1 billion ec you've earned, and i'll give you one of the ships.
See?
You earn the ec, then you use the ec you've earned to buy the ship you want. Its exactly like buying a car or a house or dinner or anything else. You earn it by earning money!
Then your robbing me of my EC. As that is a price you set. How about I sell you a mirror ship for a trade off. Ship for ship. My mirror ship is worth 1 billion.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Let me make you a proposal. I've got 3 of the ships currently, I will sell you one for 1 billion ec.
So, you go earn 1 billion ec,
And then the price has likely jumps up to 1.1 billion ec.
You can't treat this like Zen, or Lobi, or dilithium, or grind tokens, becuase Cryptic sets a fixed unchanging amount for an item that is either always there or at least there long enough to get the grind tokens. This is not like that, this is grinding or cash -> whatever selling for an amount of EC which changes based on the whims of the seller who will likely price it outside of the vast majority's ability of players to ever even get close to getting simply out of greed.
Also unlike Cryptic they aren't giving you a consolation prize thats worth the $1.25 or $3.00 you spend per turn, they just expect you to buy a ship for 5 to 6 times its actual worth.
reddit has much good information and it does get more developer participation. reddit does also have a lot of trolls and plain bad advice. it is high volume and threads go on and on, which is usually a sign that things are going downhill. but reddit remains the best place to get build advice (especially /stobuilds). and no, its not just damage chasing dps elitists, but budget builds and niche experimental builds too.
the official forums have official announcements, and occasional developer posts. this is the best place to get bugs addressed (specifically the bug forum, not general). but these forums have gone through waves of toxicity and there are bitter people who sh.itpost about everything cryptic does. the academy and tribble subforums are particularly good.
neither reddit nor these forums are inherently "better". they have different virtues and flaws.
At this point there are only people who haven't gotten one yet.
WTH does that even mean?
You go pretend to be a logical Vulcan over in the Kelvin timeline and take your logic there. I'll hang on to the logic in the real world that recognizes this is a fools' errand and keeps my real world money in my wallet.
I'd rather buy a handful of promo boxes, collect my stuff, and be pleasantly surprised if the RND works in my favor. In the meantime my shipyard considerably full with C-Store ships is available to all of my characters and provides far better value for the money.
Comments
That is due to greedy players lining their own pockets. True inflation is the price of the keys themselves from Cryptic needs to go up as well.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I don't see how this is good.
1. Rare, means not everyone will get it. And many will be left out. Too rare makes it undesirable cause its too hard to obtain. As in this case.
2. Chance with a low return of getting it. So many will spend resources and not get it. Thus making them feel robbed/cheated
3. Good for them they keep the game going. At the expense of others, and many didn't get what they wanted.
As for me, my right choice is to no longer pay for their stupid lottery boxes and promos. So I can make sure I get what I'm wanting.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Didnt realize the only thing that made sto worth playing was people flying around in rare ships.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah, I'm sure the majority of the people that want to get the ship but can't get it becuase thats how these things ACTUALLY WORK, are totally going to take satisfaction in seeing something they can't ever have.
Point One:
During the "expansion" of the lockbox system which resulted in the opening of the lobi store, there was an amount of... worry... that the "expensive" system of lockboxing or pricing ships in lobi would be applied to future "desirable" and "factional" releases, such as the remaining "iconic" ships that had yet to be released in-game.
Cryptic replied that "The C-store will remain, and shall forever be, the singular place to purchase all factional ship designs".
Point Two:
No C-store ship has ever had it's "upgrade" locked into a lockbox / Lobi store / promo. All Tier 2 and Tier 3 designs that "were approved" for upgrade were placed into the Fleet Shipyards. The only one of these 6 ships to not receive a fleet variant was the T2 "Cruiser" and it's C-store variant, being that the Tier 2 Cruisers are "the Constitution Class Refit" and/or alternate part skins of the same design (Exeter is pretty much a Connie done up in Excelsior parts, Excalibur a Connie with TNG-ish parts).
Point Three:
The KDF has been allowed to fly their TOS skin, aka the D7 class, at "endgame" as an alternate skin to the T5 "Fleet" K'Tinga. Granted, this ship is one of the many KDF ships that do not have a C-store variant to provide a "discount" for, but it exists none-the-less.
Point Four:
The lack of accessing the T'Liss skin on the T5 (and eventual T6) T'Varo was noted by the playerbase but never formally answered by Cryptic. Many assume "oversight", many assume "done not to tick off Feddie Bears who want a T-endgame Connie".
Point Five:
The Original Series Ships are the "standard" for ship designs - every "canon" ship can trace significant elements of it's construction/design back to the respective faction's original ship - excepting the Defiant and the Romulan departure from "teardrops" to "avian shaped" ships - but even then, there's a big touch of "we learned from the Klingons when we got a bunch of their D7s as depicted in TOS" in the Romulan themes...
Point Six:
There has been no "official" retraction from any of these stances posted on the "official" site, while the biggest "retraction" to date - the changes in acquiring event starships, was.
Point Seven:
Lying is illogical. It exists to salve/avoid emotional responses. Logic is supposed to be "non-emotional". This is why Vulcans always speak the truth.
Points one and seven alone are enough "logic" to support a C-store release. Points 2-6 exist to reinforce the precedent that Point 1 is supposed to enforce. To suddenly "break precedent" is illogical, in it's own way, as well.
There. You have my "Spock like" reasons that the C-store is better than the current alternative.
Point Eight:
The "logic train" in support of "rare and desirable" is invoked by Ferengi and/or other "market manipulators" in an effort to either artificially inflate the market (a known method of "artificially increasing the sale price") and/or convince others to part with the significant sums of wealth that the Ferengi / "market manipulator" / greedy exemplar of choice so desire.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I can agree with this statement, even if I want to see the Connie be available in the C-store. I am reminded of a certain someone (who I will not name) that whined every time he logged in about how he'd die before ever getting enough ec to buy a rare ship.
People that think the price is too steep and can't justify buying one outright with ec, fair enough. But it's not fair to say that it's equivalent to "Let them eat cake." If you've got the money but not time, then pay for it. If you've got the time but not the money, earn it. If you have neither, then move on with your life. Don't let something as trivial as a game get in the way.
1.5 billion is too steep, there is no thinking about it. If you want more EC than a player can actually have and want 10 master keys to get past that YOU WANT TOO MUCH.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/50edp9/so_uh_how_much_is_that_t6_connie_rd_pack_reward/
This is the prices being thrown around.
Might have something to do with it looking like they've run out of them.
Actually the reddit posts were suggesting to the seller how much to ask for by pointing out what they were selling for and was probably giving a better picture than what you see some random guys doing it for as it was from multiple people.
And the general picture came off as prices are going up.
Does this look like they were trying to sell one to the guy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/50edp9/so_uh_how_much_is_that_t6_connie_rd_pack_reward/
Says the guy going by personal anecdote. where as I provided a source even if I was off by 400 million, Guess what it still comes out to higher than the player cap on EC and asking for 20 Master keys (their $5m a pop right now so getting 100m is 20).
And can come out to $170 or almost 6 times the cost of a T6 ship. And thats assuming promo packs don't start going cheaper.
I agree, players who wanted this ship for a long time. Seeing their chance to get it is now gone. Due to they have to play the lottery by throwing $ at a gimmick. Open tons of boxes with no luck. Or to be robbed by the other players in EC. You can't find logic or a feeling of "earning" on this.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
That is just a horrible response. Stating you don't get it over how much you play is not a good comparison. This is basically slapping the others in the face over their playing time. There is a lot that can't sit here and play hours on ends as they live in their parents basement.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
They are robbing them, as they are setting the price. And you can't earn it. You still hadn't learned what earn means.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Here let me help you.
To earn:
To receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/earn
You did none of this and anyone else who got the ship. So I bought 9 boxes, therefore I earned a ship. I didn't so I got robbed. Same goes for others who bought 100s and still no ship. As you can't earn one through a lottery.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
It's the same principle
Then your robbing me of my EC. As that is a price you set. How about I sell you a mirror ship for a trade off. Ship for ship. My mirror ship is worth 1 billion.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
And then the price has likely jumps up to 1.1 billion ec.
You can't treat this like Zen, or Lobi, or dilithium, or grind tokens, becuase Cryptic sets a fixed unchanging amount for an item that is either always there or at least there long enough to get the grind tokens. This is not like that, this is grinding or cash -> whatever selling for an amount of EC which changes based on the whims of the seller who will likely price it outside of the vast majority's ability of players to ever even get close to getting simply out of greed.
Also unlike Cryptic they aren't giving you a consolation prize thats worth the $1.25 or $3.00 you spend per turn, they just expect you to buy a ship for 5 to 6 times its actual worth.
If there is an outage Reddit will be where they will likely post post the explanation, here is not.
the official forums have official announcements, and occasional developer posts. this is the best place to get bugs addressed (specifically the bug forum, not general). but these forums have gone through waves of toxicity and there are bitter people who sh.itpost about everything cryptic does. the academy and tribble subforums are particularly good.
neither reddit nor these forums are inherently "better". they have different virtues and flaws.
And the general consensus I get looking online is not worth it.
(Why do I have a feeling Druk is trying to press the buttons of those who didn't get a ship from the lack?)
WTH does that even mean?
You go pretend to be a logical Vulcan over in the Kelvin timeline and take your logic there. I'll hang on to the logic in the real world that recognizes this is a fools' errand and keeps my real world money in my wallet.
I'd rather buy a handful of promo boxes, collect my stuff, and be pleasantly surprised if the RND works in my favor. In the meantime my shipyard considerably full with C-Store ships is available to all of my characters and provides far better value for the money.
Cheers.
Thats really the only place where it comes off as logical as the Kelvin Connie is the one people are getting in decent numbers, that or the Vengeance.