Yeah a major knock-on effect of the RNG/tradable ships system is that it provides huge fuel for the in-game economy.
I don't have anything against that, in principle.
What I do object to is overpricing, but that's not such a big deal as I can simply elect not to spend on a vanity item.
And if that many R&D boxes in the system pushed crafting mats in the Exchange down to reasonable prices, that would also be a great outcome. But it doesn't because the megabuck people in the system work to keep the inflation at an artificial high. Market manipulation is a thing, but only the rich can play. Just because it isn't against the rules doesn't make it fair.
What I can't understand is why people think it's a great idea to open as many as 50+ R&D boxes at a time hoping to get a ship. Even with the "earn it" method some people are pushing, you're still generating just as many R&D boxes to convert to EC. Maybe more. Does it matter whether you open it yourself or throw it out onto the Exchange for someone else to open? Somebody still has to open about the same number of boxes on average to generate the ships. That's still a lot of boxes and a hugely inefficient method of obtaining a ship.
If you're into crafting and you're going to open that many boxes at a time anyway, then why not? That I could understand. But throwing away money on a lot of something you don't really want and contributing to insanely inflated prices in-game? Yeah, I see the 'win' for Cryptic; I just don't see a whole lot of win for everybody else. Which is why I wish you'd stop pushing the 'everyone gets a chance' mantra. It's simply not true.
Let's call it what it is: A high risk for low return. No matter what currency the trade is getting pushed in, that part never changes.
I wish they'd go a similar route as they did with the lockboxes. A guaranteed redeemable currency (Lobi) that can be used as an alternate way to obtain the reward. That would effectively create a reasonable cap on how much someone has to spend to obtain something they want and cut down on the 'gambling' factor. You could still play the odds with the RNG boxes, but with the certain knowledge that at some point you'd have enough Lobi to just purchase it -- or something of near equal value -- based on the number of boxes you bought.
That made lockboxes much more reasonable in the eyes of many people and it would have worked well for this, too. Effectively increasing sales in the aggregate while being a lot more fair to the customers. That's the win-win they already have with lockboxes and it's a proven system... so why not with R&D Promo boxes?
Let me be clear... I have pretty much given up on the idea of the T6 TLC. There will not be one in my immediate future, if ever. But I'm concerned about the people who are throwing away money and/or time trying to obtain something with an unreasonably high value at an unreasonably high rate of risk. And not a little irritated by the people who are leading them on.
Because post count does not directly equate to usage of the in-game Trade System. I've used it in LOTRO but never once here.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Except this thing is going above the EC cap in value meaning you would likely eventually get to a point where you would have spent less money on the chance boxes, as the in-game economy is under the control of a handful of ridiculously EC wealthy and yet still greedy as heck players.
Especially since the more people who switch to buying from another player from chance boxing it the fewer their are in game.
To ensure getting these ships into the Private Sales market quickly and then to continually flip them through buying and selling for large profits. Rule of Acquisition 239.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I wish they'd go a similar route as they did with the lockboxes.
And I wish they just did lock boxes and none of this promo box TRIBBLE, especially after the infinity box shot exchange inflation in the foot by making sure there is an eventual supply replenishment. This also means that you don't have to go through exclusive private channels to get something.
Seriously if this had been through a 23rd century themed lockbox I'm pretty sure way less people would be mad about this.
That is why those big sellers need something to counter-balance the effects of the Infinity Box.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That is why those big sellers need something to counter-balance the effects of the Infinity Box.
There is a hard cap on the amount of EC you can earn, there is a hard cap on the amount of EC you can charge in the exchange, the infinity box and the admiralty system helped lower prices on things in the exchange.
That seems to make it clear that Cryptic is trying to discourage those big sellers, not help them.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic's next EC billionaire nerf is to start targeting player trading with caps.
I wish they'd go a similar route as they did with the lockboxes.
And I wish they just did lock boxes and none of this promo box ****, especially after the infinity box shot exchange inflation in the foot by making sure there is an eventual supply replenishment. This also means that you don't have to go through exclusive private channels to get something.
Seriously if this had been through a 23rd century themed lockbox I'm pretty sure way less people would be mad about this.
Sure, but if their goal is to move R&D boxes then a lockbox doesn't fly. Also, it would've affected the Kelvin lockbox.
I don't have a problem with the idea of the promo boxes. They drop lobi just like a lockbox does and they encourage sales of items they want to move.
What I do have a problem with is the ridiculous odds that force people to open waayyyy too many of these to obtain the exclusive item.
As noted, the 'workaround' forces people to buy waayyy too many commodity items and price them waayyy too high in order to trade for something that's being priced at an even more ridiculous price. I can well believe that this model is of great benefit to the Exchange Barons, not so much everyone else.
The Lobi option would have capped the effective price of the ship and discouraged these kinds of shenanigans. That would have made a lot more people happy and generated a lot more sales distributed across a larger portion of the player base. People are more willing to spend money when they know that something is within their means, without taking the risks involved in gambling. But it would have been a bigger risk for Cryptic and a downright disappointment for the Exchange Barons.
I am NOT happy with the people suggesting that customers ought to pay $120 for this ship by buying and selling R&D boxes. Especially when we know for a fact that the normal valuation for a T6 ship is $30. People, that's *twelve* R&D boxes at the normal pricing. 24 boxes might have been reasonable for a promotion. That's where the odds should have been weighted toward. I would probably have bought more boxes under those conditions.
I wish they'd go a similar route as they did with the lockboxes.
And I wish they just did lock boxes and none of this promo box ****, especially after the infinity box shot exchange inflation in the foot by making sure there is an eventual supply replenishment. This also means that you don't have to go through exclusive private channels to get something.
Seriously if this had been through a 23rd century themed lockbox I'm pretty sure way less people would be mad about this.
Sure, but if their goal is to move R&D boxes then a lockbox doesn't fly. Also, it would've affected the Kelvin lockbox.
I don't have a problem with the idea of the promo boxes. They drop lobi just like a lockbox does and they encourage sales of items they want to move.
What I do have a problem with is the ridiculous odds that force people to open waayyyy too many of these to obtain the exclusive item.
As noted, the 'workaround' forces people to buy waayyy too many commodity items and price them waayyy too high in order to trade for something that's being priced at an even more ridiculous price. I can well believe that this model is of great benefit to the Exchange Barons, not so much everyone else.
The Lobi option would have capped the effective price of the ship and discouraged these kinds of shenanigans. That would have made a lot more people happy and generated a lot more sales distributed across a larger portion of the player base. People are more willing to spend money when they know that something is within their means, without taking the risks involved in gambling. But it would have been a bigger risk for Cryptic and a downright disappointment for the Exchange Barons.
I am NOT happy with the people suggesting that customers ought to pay $120 for this ship by buying and selling R&D boxes. Especially when we know for a fact that the normal valuation for a T6 ship is $30. People, that's *twelve* R&D boxes at the normal pricing. 24 boxes might have been reasonable for a promotion. That's where the odds should have been weighted toward. I would probably have bought more boxes under those conditions.
Very true sto, this is why I got what I could with my Dil. I would pay 3k + in zen just for the ship. Or kept getting lobi to pay for it that way. I saw some pay over $100 for boxes and still didn't get a ship. So how is that good? Hey mom can I spend lots and lots of money and hope to win a ship???
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Sure, but if their goal is to move R&D boxes then a lockbox doesn't fly.
Well they probably should have seen the R&D box becoming less desirable coming after the Admiralty system make crafting supplies easier to get. Which was kind of a weird one since I don't think people were complaining about that one too much.
Also, it would've affected the Kelvin lockbox.
Which is why you make it the next lock box event.
I am NOT happy with the people suggesting that customers ought to pay $120 for this ship by buying and selling R&D boxes.
I can't help but think they other intention of this advice was to stop the flow of T6 Connies so as to jack the EC price up.
Sure, but if their goal is to move R&D boxes then a lockbox doesn't fly.
Well they probably should have seen the R&D box becoming less desirable coming after the Admiralty system make crafting supplies easier to get. Which was kind of a weird one since I don't think people were complaining about that one too much.
Also, it would've affected the Kelvin lockbox.
Which is why you make it the next lock box event.
I am NOT happy with the people suggesting that customers ought to pay $120 for this ship by buying and selling R&D boxes.
I can't help but think they other intention of this advice was to stop the flow of T6 Connies so as to jack the EC price up.
Looks like they was after only the big spenders. As to give them something to spend on. Basically a party favor for the high end elite spenders. That don't have to worry about $. And Cryptic can bring in the $ to keep going. Similar to how big spenders pay the politicians.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Looks like they was after only the big spenders. As to give them something to spend on. Basically a party favor for the high end elite spenders. That don't have to worry about $. And Cryptic can bring in the $ to keep going. Similar to how big spenders pay the politicians.
And they wonder why people complain bout them most of the time.
Looks like they was after only the big spenders. As to give them something to spend on. Basically a party favor for the high end elite spenders. That don't have to worry about $. And Cryptic can bring in the $ to keep going. Similar to how big spenders pay the politicians.
And they wonder why people complain bout them most of the time.
Precisely, It don't take much to connect the dots. Create a ship many wanted, and most asked in the entire game history. Place it into a gimmick so only the rich players can afford money or EC wise. Which is out of reach of most of the gaming community. From Kids on up to others who just can't afford it. You can tell how their target customers is on this one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Place it into a gimmick so only the rich players can afford money or EC wise
To be fair on the EC count that is part of the player base actually price gouging it. And I'm pretty sure doing it in a way that makes them even more disgusting.
Something does not have to be rare to be desirable.
For example, if they had made this a regular 30$ ship in the CStore, it would still be highly desirable. There is a large segment of the game population who covet this ship. And always will. No matter how many others have one, to the individual who wants one, for the iconic nature, it will always hold the same value.
Even if people were flying around everywhere in T6 Connies, most people who covet this ship would still want one just as badly, due to its iconic nature.
But perhaps by "Desire" you actually mean "prestigious" ?
Also, desire is highly subjective and personal. I know many people who desire a Toyota Corolla, but in fact you can find them everywhere.
Just saying, rarity doesn't always determine desirability.
You're right. But I will admit this one point:
If the T6 Connie was marketed as every other "iconic" ship has been to date - decent but not world breaking power levels, etc., the "die hard TOS" fans would buy in a heartbeat, collectors "as soon as they can", "General Trekkies" when they had the cash/character, and that would be about it. Sorta like every other C-store ship.
By going this route, the "rarity" opens up a new market - those who seek the ship purely for the status symbol it became and/or the potential in "space riches" the box represents. By applying the "to justify rarity, we'll make it OP" card, the min-maxxers are now in the market, too.
Business wise, it's a win for Cryptic. Playerbase wise, I'm thinking it's time to really see the charity some organizations purport and have T6 TLC "giveaways" to the point that most/all TOS fans are at least taken care of, because we're "theoretically" quite the small little group, after all...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Place it into a gimmick so only the rich players can afford money or EC wise
To be fair on the EC count that is part of the player base actually price gouging it. And I'm pretty sure doing it in a way that makes them even more disgusting.
They know its hard to get, and most desired by the player base. So just like Cryptic, they smell profit in the wind.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
That is why those big sellers need something to counter-balance the effects of the Infinity Box.
There is a hard cap on the amount of EC you can earn, there is a hard cap on the amount of EC you can charge in the exchange, the infinity box and the admiralty system helped lower prices on things in the exchange.
That seems to make it clear that Cryptic is trying to discourage those big sellers, not help them.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic's next EC billionaire nerf is to start targeting player trading with caps.
Those big sellers have many alts and move the EC around to them, and the Account Bank. They also use trades of other high value items for payment. With a lot of EC, it would be very easy for them to buy 'hundreds of R&D Packs' to get the ship(s).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Those big sellers have many alts and move the EC around to them, and the Account Bank. They also use trades of other high value items for payment. With a lot of EC, it would be very easy for them to buy 'hundreds of R&D Packs' to get the ship(s).
And if I was running the game I would make changes to end their behavior becuase this would be better for the ingame economy as they serve no value to it.
Very true. I desire it for that is my #1 ship in Star Trek. I would used the **** out of it in my AOY. I didn't care if it was 4000 Zen. I would pay more than that. As long it was in the c store so I could save up for it to buy in due time. Even throw it the lobi store. Even that would give me a goal and spend $ to get it. What they did is a fool's game.
No it isn't.
You can 'save up' for the ship now, in fact I strongly encourage you to.
Having it be rare and desirable will give you a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when you finally get one.
They are not offering it in the stores. So you can't save up for it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Sure, but if their goal is to move R&D boxes then a lockbox doesn't fly.
Well they probably should have seen the R&D box becoming less desirable coming after the Admiralty system make crafting supplies easier to get. Which was kind of a weird one since I don't think people were complaining about that one too much.
Also, it would've affected the Kelvin lockbox.
Which is why you make it the next lock box event.
I am NOT happy with the people suggesting that customers ought to pay $120 for this ship by buying and selling R&D boxes.
I can't help but think they other intention of this advice was to stop the flow of T6 Connies so as to jack the EC price up.
Looks like they was after only the big spenders. As to give them something to spend on. Basically a party favor for the high end elite spenders. That don't have to worry about $. And Cryptic can bring in the $ to keep going. Similar to how big spenders pay the politicians.
Nobody is driving the price up on this ship, it's been fairly stable at 850 to 900 million range, and can be obtained without use of an invite only trade channel simply through use of zone chat.
To a person who never have yet to break the EC cap. That amount is insane! Since its chump change for you. You can afford me one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Promo packs are a normal part of sto. They've been doing these promo events for the Bug Ship, the Bulwark, the Sheshar and the Annorax and all their variants for at least four years now.
The difference being that EC rich players didn't horde them and then try to convince people to blow over $100 on EC they would never get to spend on them as they priced it outside of that amount, selling it just to sell it.
Comments
I don't have anything against that, in principle.
What I do object to is overpricing, but that's not such a big deal as I can simply elect not to spend on a vanity item.
And if that many R&D boxes in the system pushed crafting mats in the Exchange down to reasonable prices, that would also be a great outcome. But it doesn't because the megabuck people in the system work to keep the inflation at an artificial high. Market manipulation is a thing, but only the rich can play. Just because it isn't against the rules doesn't make it fair.
What I can't understand is why people think it's a great idea to open as many as 50+ R&D boxes at a time hoping to get a ship. Even with the "earn it" method some people are pushing, you're still generating just as many R&D boxes to convert to EC. Maybe more. Does it matter whether you open it yourself or throw it out onto the Exchange for someone else to open? Somebody still has to open about the same number of boxes on average to generate the ships. That's still a lot of boxes and a hugely inefficient method of obtaining a ship.
If you're into crafting and you're going to open that many boxes at a time anyway, then why not? That I could understand. But throwing away money on a lot of something you don't really want and contributing to insanely inflated prices in-game? Yeah, I see the 'win' for Cryptic; I just don't see a whole lot of win for everybody else. Which is why I wish you'd stop pushing the 'everyone gets a chance' mantra. It's simply not true.
Let's call it what it is: A high risk for low return. No matter what currency the trade is getting pushed in, that part never changes.
I wish they'd go a similar route as they did with the lockboxes. A guaranteed redeemable currency (Lobi) that can be used as an alternate way to obtain the reward. That would effectively create a reasonable cap on how much someone has to spend to obtain something they want and cut down on the 'gambling' factor. You could still play the odds with the RNG boxes, but with the certain knowledge that at some point you'd have enough Lobi to just purchase it -- or something of near equal value -- based on the number of boxes you bought.
That made lockboxes much more reasonable in the eyes of many people and it would have worked well for this, too. Effectively increasing sales in the aggregate while being a lot more fair to the customers. That's the win-win they already have with lockboxes and it's a proven system... so why not with R&D Promo boxes?
Let me be clear... I have pretty much given up on the idea of the T6 TLC. There will not be one in my immediate future, if ever. But I'm concerned about the people who are throwing away money and/or time trying to obtain something with an unreasonably high value at an unreasonably high rate of risk. And not a little irritated by the people who are leading them on.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
To ensure getting these ships into the Private Sales market quickly and then to continually flip them through buying and selling for large profits. Rule of Acquisition 239.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
And I wish they just did lock boxes and none of this promo box TRIBBLE, especially after the infinity box shot exchange inflation in the foot by making sure there is an eventual supply replenishment. This also means that you don't have to go through exclusive private channels to get something.
Seriously if this had been through a 23rd century themed lockbox I'm pretty sure way less people would be mad about this.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There is a hard cap on the amount of EC you can earn, there is a hard cap on the amount of EC you can charge in the exchange, the infinity box and the admiralty system helped lower prices on things in the exchange.
That seems to make it clear that Cryptic is trying to discourage those big sellers, not help them.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic's next EC billionaire nerf is to start targeting player trading with caps.
Sure, but if their goal is to move R&D boxes then a lockbox doesn't fly. Also, it would've affected the Kelvin lockbox.
I don't have a problem with the idea of the promo boxes. They drop lobi just like a lockbox does and they encourage sales of items they want to move.
What I do have a problem with is the ridiculous odds that force people to open waayyyy too many of these to obtain the exclusive item.
As noted, the 'workaround' forces people to buy waayyy too many commodity items and price them waayyy too high in order to trade for something that's being priced at an even more ridiculous price. I can well believe that this model is of great benefit to the Exchange Barons, not so much everyone else.
The Lobi option would have capped the effective price of the ship and discouraged these kinds of shenanigans. That would have made a lot more people happy and generated a lot more sales distributed across a larger portion of the player base. People are more willing to spend money when they know that something is within their means, without taking the risks involved in gambling. But it would have been a bigger risk for Cryptic and a downright disappointment for the Exchange Barons.
I am NOT happy with the people suggesting that customers ought to pay $120 for this ship by buying and selling R&D boxes. Especially when we know for a fact that the normal valuation for a T6 ship is $30. People, that's *twelve* R&D boxes at the normal pricing. 24 boxes might have been reasonable for a promotion. That's where the odds should have been weighted toward. I would probably have bought more boxes under those conditions.
Very true sto, this is why I got what I could with my Dil. I would pay 3k + in zen just for the ship. Or kept getting lobi to pay for it that way. I saw some pay over $100 for boxes and still didn't get a ship. So how is that good? Hey mom can I spend lots and lots of money and hope to win a ship???
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Well they probably should have seen the R&D box becoming less desirable coming after the Admiralty system make crafting supplies easier to get. Which was kind of a weird one since I don't think people were complaining about that one too much.
Which is why you make it the next lock box event.
I can't help but think they other intention of this advice was to stop the flow of T6 Connies so as to jack the EC price up.
Looks like they was after only the big spenders. As to give them something to spend on. Basically a party favor for the high end elite spenders. That don't have to worry about $. And Cryptic can bring in the $ to keep going. Similar to how big spenders pay the politicians.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
And they wonder why people complain bout them most of the time.
Precisely, It don't take much to connect the dots. Create a ship many wanted, and most asked in the entire game history. Place it into a gimmick so only the rich players can afford money or EC wise. Which is out of reach of most of the gaming community. From Kids on up to others who just can't afford it. You can tell how their target customers is on this one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
To be fair on the EC count that is part of the player base actually price gouging it. And I'm pretty sure doing it in a way that makes them even more disgusting.
You're right. But I will admit this one point:
If the T6 Connie was marketed as every other "iconic" ship has been to date - decent but not world breaking power levels, etc., the "die hard TOS" fans would buy in a heartbeat, collectors "as soon as they can", "General Trekkies" when they had the cash/character, and that would be about it. Sorta like every other C-store ship.
By going this route, the "rarity" opens up a new market - those who seek the ship purely for the status symbol it became and/or the potential in "space riches" the box represents. By applying the "to justify rarity, we'll make it OP" card, the min-maxxers are now in the market, too.
Business wise, it's a win for Cryptic. Playerbase wise, I'm thinking it's time to really see the charity some organizations purport and have T6 TLC "giveaways" to the point that most/all TOS fans are at least taken care of, because we're "theoretically" quite the small little group, after all...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
They know its hard to get, and most desired by the player base. So just like Cryptic, they smell profit in the wind.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Those big sellers have many alts and move the EC around to them, and the Account Bank. They also use trades of other high value items for payment. With a lot of EC, it would be very easy for them to buy 'hundreds of R&D Packs' to get the ship(s).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
And if I was running the game I would make changes to end their behavior becuase this would be better for the ingame economy as they serve no value to it.
No you can't, its locked behind an invite only trade channel whist EC rich players drive the price up more and more.
They are not offering it in the stores. So you can't save up for it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
To a person who never have yet to break the EC cap. That amount is insane! Since its chump change for you. You can afford me one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The difference being that EC rich players didn't horde them and then try to convince people to blow over $100 on EC they would never get to spend on them as they priced it outside of that amount, selling it just to sell it.