Why not both? Having a fixed, MAXIMUM price and RNG?
For example, instead of Lobi, you get a unit of currency, I'd call them Phased Lobi Crystals, which once you hit 300 PLC, you get to buy the T6 package off the lobi store. If applied to lockboxes, this gives you access to the store that lets you buy 1 grand prize item out of EVERYTHING available in that box.
At the end of the promo, all of this phased lobi crystals turn into normal lobi.
This keeps the RNG mechanics in play and yet sets a theoretical albeit appropriately exhorbitant maximum price on the item as in order to get 300 PLC you would have to have opened 300 packs. Reduce the number required as balanced.
Something like this would be good. Set a maximum amount that a player can spend before they're guaranteed a drop.
I don't believe in this 'casting in a bad light' thing at all.
And that's why we'll never agree on this issue. Players shouldn't have to buy the ship from other players. They should be able to purchase it from Cryptic. Purchase it...not gamble for it.
What you say can't be true can it? A single promo pack is within the means of any interested sto player, and a single promo pack confers a chance to get the ship.
Again, conveniently ignoring that a single promo pack is statistically highly unlikely to yield a ship prize.
Only the repetitive act of opening many promo packs increases the probability that a ship will drop.
I believe they would make less money if the ships cost 75-100$ and fewer people bought them, than if the ships are RNG.
We can't see cryptic's internal data about sales, but we can be confident about their motives. It's not unreasonable to believe that their motive is to make a lot of money.
If they have data that lets them know which method results in more money for them, and they choose the RNG model over the expensive-cash-shop model, then we have a good reason to believe that this is evidence that the RNG model is likely to make more money for them.
On this we agree. The RNG model has been very successful for them. I can't fault them for taking advantage of the fact that players are willing to take risks.
By having the ships be RNG ships, we therefore obtain all three good outcomes:
1. The ships are rare and desirable
2. Everyone has a chance to get one, not just people who can afford 100 dollars.
3. The company prospers.
Having all 3 outcomes is better than having just 1 or 2 of them, so, if we think like a Vulcan, we come to the conclusion that the RNG scheme is the best one.
Point 3 is predicated on the assumption that the prosperity of the company is of benefit to the players. It is, up to a point, in so far as it allows the company to treat its' employees well and continue to produce the game. This we can agree is a good outcome... at least for some people. However, the RNG box model also encourages players to take risks with money against poor odds. That is the very definition of gambling, even if it's not a legal definition. Gambling is potentially addictive behavior and financial loss beyond a few dollars is obviously not a good outcome.
Point 2 is factually correct ('everyone has a chance') but implies that the ships are far more available than they are. If only one in 100 players will ever get one, a %1 ratio is not that good an outcome. I'm just throwing out a number because we don't know the real numbers. I suspect the number among the playerbase who get one is even lower than %1. We'll never know how many tried and how many boxes they opened in the attempt.
Point 2 also makes the unwarranted assumption that the value of the ship is set at 100 dollars. We don't know what Cryptic values the ship at.
Point 1 is only a good outcome if you're one of the people who lucked out and only had to open a few boxes to pop the ship.
If you think like a Vulcan, you'd come to the conclusion that it is a money-making scheme that benefits only a relative few and that you are statistically likely to either risk a lot of money or not obtain a ship at all.
If you think like a Ferengi, you'd wish you'd thought of it first. And your second thought would be, "if player A is trying so hard to convince me this is a good deal when it's clearly just a sales promotion to get people to buy something they don't need to try to get something else they really want, what is player A getting out of it?" And your third thought would be, "how can I turn this to my advantage and get in on the profit?"
I'm doing the Vulcan logic. It's a $ scheme and I will no longer buy R&D boxes or master keys. And what lock boxes I get from missions. Will be tossed out the air lock.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Why not after the event has ended put them in the lobi store, but, at a ultra rare price, say,...1500 lobi. The only way of getting lobi involves at some point a real money purchase, chance to win in event or spend and save after the event for a inflated price.
Where ever you go, there you are.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
because adding them to the lobi store means cruptic cannot replay this promotion later. most of the earlier promoships have run more than once. i think the bulwark is the exception.
STO isn't set in the TOS period, it would be bizarre indeed to see everyone doing contemporary star trek in the TOS ships.
^^^
But, (and lets be honest here - STO ALSO ISN'T set in the TNG?DS9/VOY era either. It's a NEW era 40+ years after the TV series and 30+ years after the last TNG feature film. By that logic NONE of the former series or Prime Universe feture films should be appearing much - and NONE should be at 'Top Tier Tech' endgames levels.
And yet - They are - and the 24th century fans have had no trouble arguing or getting their base 'Hero' ships into the C-Store for the most part. And lets also be fair and realize that more than a year and a half ago Cryptic has been introducing content to make this game 'era agnostic'; and if this were REALLY a game just based on TV or feature film Star trek in general, you WOULDN'T have Federation Captains flying 200% alien ships (like the Tholian Dreadnaught; or many other Non-Fed alien ships.)
What my point? If you really look, at this game, the "It's not set in the TOS era" is no longer a valid excuse for saying "That's why they need to keep an endgame Connie (JJ-Prise or TOS Prime Univers era) rare."
That became invalid a LONG time ago.
And lets face is the ONLY reason you saw Miranda Class and Excelsior Class ships in the early seasons of TNG were because those feature film models were available - still of high quality for TV and allowed them to save on costs AND still look like a higher end TV production.
The "Ambassador Class Heavy Cruiser"; was mentioned on screen by Lt. Worf (although the model never made/seen until the third Season TNG Episode "Yesterday's Enterprise") in the TNG first season episode "Conspiracy". Again, my point? If TNG had the budget, they WOULD have built and used 100% new ship models for 24th century ships, and have shown them on screen.
So yeah, don't trot out the old: "STO isn't set in the TOS era" -- Because it's not set in the TNG era either; yet those fans get all their Hero ships in the C-Store, or a Lockbox meaning there is no 'Limited Time then possibly never again component." <-- And that's the aspect that's REALLY unfair to TOS era fans who want a TOS era prime Universe T6 Connie.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I'm doing the Vulcan logic. It's a $ scheme and I will no longer buy R&D boxes or master keys. And what lock boxes I get from missions. Will be tossed out the air lock.
Eh, I don't go that far. Lockboxes contain all kinds of things I actually want. And R&D boxes are actually useful if you plan on crafting or upgrades.
I just don't blow hundreds of dollars every time a new promo comes around.
I'm doing the Vulcan logic. It's a $ scheme and I will no longer buy R&D boxes or master keys. And what lock boxes I get from missions. Will be tossed out the air lock.
Eh, I don't go that far. Lockboxes contain all kinds of things I actually want. And R&D boxes are actually useful if you plan on crafting or upgrades.
I just don't blow hundreds of dollars every time a new promo comes around.
I never bought R&D boxes until they threw in the Connie. Creating a $ scheme out of it. Since I went through my Dil for them. I'm done with the promo. And I will refuse to buy anymore. Since I never really needed them to start with. And I craft as well. I just craft certain items. And what I do get works well for my characters.
Lock Boxes I only get a few ground weapons that others put on the exchange. If it got my attention. That is what I usually get out from those. Those are a little more useful. Other than that I will keep on my purge as I get them. I don't need them, and I'm not wasting time with it.
Post edited by farmallm on
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I'm doing the Vulcan logic. It's a $ scheme and I will no longer buy R&D boxes or master keys. And what lock boxes I get from missions. Will be tossed out the air lock.
I don't think that's what a Vulcan would do. It certainly isn't logical!
Its very logical. As it clogs up my inventory space as I need it for other items from the mission. So out the air lock they go. To make room for better stuff. That I can actually use.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I personally wouldn't toss the lock boxes out the airlock outright; if I knew I wasn't going to use them, I'd sell them on the exchange. I figure why not make a little extra EC off of them? Of course it's not a lot of profit per box, but all those boxes add up (and I have a lot of them). But that's just me.
There already is, you can buy the ship from someone for about 950m ec if you don't want to gamble for it.
Yeah, totally using a system where you can easily get scammed becuase some rich dude doesn't get the Cryptic doesn't want you having craptons of EC (hence the caps) is totally better.
You have to trade them the ec then they trade you the ship, they could always just leave after getting the ec. There is no handing the item over sends EC to you automatically with trade windows.
I personally wouldn't toss the lock boxes out the airlock outright; if I knew I wasn't going to use them, I'd sell them on the exchange. I figure why not make a little extra EC off of them? Of course it's not a lot of profit per box, but all those boxes add up (and I have a lot of them). But that's just me.
I saw them on the exchange. And not worth the time to put them up. Since they are practically worthless. Its faster to get rid of them.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
What you say can't be true can it? A single promo pack is within the means of any interested sto player, and a single promo pack confers a chance to get the ship.
Again, conveniently ignoring that a single promo pack is statistically highly unlikely to yield a ship prize.
It is, but look at it like this:
They cna put it in for a high Zen price. Then you can only get if you really spend a lot of money on it.
Or they can do it like now, and put it in a lockbox or promotion box. Now you have a (tiny) chance to get it for cheap, and still a guarantee to get it you spend a lot of money on it. For the latter part you need to trade with a player, but it can't be bad for a massive multiplayer game if there are actual reasons to have other players in the game and interact with them.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Something does not have to be rare to be desirable.
For example, if they had made this a regular 30$ ship in the CStore, it would still be highly desirable. There is a large segment of the game population who covet this ship. And always will. No matter how many others have one, to the individual who wants one, for the iconic nature, it will always hold the same value.
Even if people were flying around everywhere in T6 Connies, most people who covet this ship would still want one just as badly, due to its iconic nature.
But perhaps by "Desire" you actually mean "prestigious" ?
Also, desire is highly subjective and personal. I know many people who desire a Toyota Corolla, but in fact you can find them everywhere.
Just saying, rarity doesn't always determine desirability.
Very true. I desire it for that is my #1 ship in Star Trek. I would used the TRIBBLE out of it in my AOY. I didn't care if it was 4000 Zen. I would pay more than that. As long it was in the c store so I could save up for it to buy in due time. Even throw it the lobi store. Even that would give me a goal and spend $ to get it. What they did is a fool's game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I don't believe in this 'casting in a bad light' thing at all.
And that's why we'll never agree on this issue. Players shouldn't have to buy the ship from other players. They should be able to purchase it from Cryptic. Purchase it...not gamble for it.
Why? What's good about that?
Hmm whats better about a 100% chance of getting the ship unlocked on all your characters for 30 bucks vs a 1% chance out of an R&D box (which costs around $2.50) for a single character..
Yeah I can't see anything better either
It's a money making idea that has nothing to do with giving everyone a 'chance' (and I use chance loosely because it's a BS arguement)
guarantee to get it you spend a lot of money on it.
Except this thing is going above the EC cap in value meaning you would likely eventually get to a point where you would have spent less money on the chance boxes, as the in-game economy is under the control of a handful of ridiculously EC wealthy and yet still greedy as heck players.
Especially since the more people who switch to buying from another player from chance boxing it the fewer their are in game.
guarantee to get it you spend a lot of money on it.
Except this thing is going above the EC cap in value meaning you would likely eventually get to a point where you would have spent less money on the chance boxes, as the in-game economy is under the control of a handful of ridiculously EC wealthy and yet still greedy as heck players.
You just described the our world, there, too....replace players with bankers and other special interest.
Anyhow, yep, amazing how those players got tons of EC in bank, yet it's still not enough.
Comments
Something like this would be good. Set a maximum amount that a player can spend before they're guaranteed a drop.
And that's why we'll never agree on this issue. Players shouldn't have to buy the ship from other players. They should be able to purchase it from Cryptic. Purchase it...not gamble for it.
Again, conveniently ignoring that a single promo pack is statistically highly unlikely to yield a ship prize.
Only the repetitive act of opening many promo packs increases the probability that a ship will drop.
On this we agree. The RNG model has been very successful for them. I can't fault them for taking advantage of the fact that players are willing to take risks.
Point 3 is predicated on the assumption that the prosperity of the company is of benefit to the players. It is, up to a point, in so far as it allows the company to treat its' employees well and continue to produce the game. This we can agree is a good outcome... at least for some people. However, the RNG box model also encourages players to take risks with money against poor odds. That is the very definition of gambling, even if it's not a legal definition. Gambling is potentially addictive behavior and financial loss beyond a few dollars is obviously not a good outcome.
Point 2 is factually correct ('everyone has a chance') but implies that the ships are far more available than they are. If only one in 100 players will ever get one, a %1 ratio is not that good an outcome. I'm just throwing out a number because we don't know the real numbers. I suspect the number among the playerbase who get one is even lower than %1. We'll never know how many tried and how many boxes they opened in the attempt.
Point 2 also makes the unwarranted assumption that the value of the ship is set at 100 dollars. We don't know what Cryptic values the ship at.
Point 1 is only a good outcome if you're one of the people who lucked out and only had to open a few boxes to pop the ship.
If you think like a Vulcan, you'd come to the conclusion that it is a money-making scheme that benefits only a relative few and that you are statistically likely to either risk a lot of money or not obtain a ship at all.
If you think like a Ferengi, you'd wish you'd thought of it first. And your second thought would be, "if player A is trying so hard to convince me this is a good deal when it's clearly just a sales promotion to get people to buy something they don't need to try to get something else they really want, what is player A getting out of it?" And your third thought would be, "how can I turn this to my advantage and get in on the profit?"
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
But, (and lets be honest here - STO ALSO ISN'T set in the TNG?DS9/VOY era either. It's a NEW era 40+ years after the TV series and 30+ years after the last TNG feature film. By that logic NONE of the former series or Prime Universe feture films should be appearing much - and NONE should be at 'Top Tier Tech' endgames levels.
And yet - They are - and the 24th century fans have had no trouble arguing or getting their base 'Hero' ships into the C-Store for the most part. And lets also be fair and realize that more than a year and a half ago Cryptic has been introducing content to make this game 'era agnostic'; and if this were REALLY a game just based on TV or feature film Star trek in general, you WOULDN'T have Federation Captains flying 200% alien ships (like the Tholian Dreadnaught; or many other Non-Fed alien ships.)
What my point? If you really look, at this game, the "It's not set in the TOS era" is no longer a valid excuse for saying "That's why they need to keep an endgame Connie (JJ-Prise or TOS Prime Univers era) rare."
That became invalid a LONG time ago.
And lets face is the ONLY reason you saw Miranda Class and Excelsior Class ships in the early seasons of TNG were because those feature film models were available - still of high quality for TV and allowed them to save on costs AND still look like a higher end TV production.
The "Ambassador Class Heavy Cruiser"; was mentioned on screen by Lt. Worf (although the model never made/seen until the third Season TNG Episode "Yesterday's Enterprise") in the TNG first season episode "Conspiracy". Again, my point? If TNG had the budget, they WOULD have built and used 100% new ship models for 24th century ships, and have shown them on screen.
So yeah, don't trot out the old: "STO isn't set in the TOS era" -- Because it's not set in the TNG era either; yet those fans get all their Hero ships in the C-Store, or a Lockbox meaning there is no 'Limited Time then possibly never again component." <-- And that's the aspect that's REALLY unfair to TOS era fans who want a TOS era prime Universe T6 Connie.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Eh, I don't go that far. Lockboxes contain all kinds of things I actually want. And R&D boxes are actually useful if you plan on crafting or upgrades.
I just don't blow hundreds of dollars every time a new promo comes around.
I never bought R&D boxes until they threw in the Connie. Creating a $ scheme out of it. Since I went through my Dil for them. I'm done with the promo. And I will refuse to buy anymore. Since I never really needed them to start with. And I craft as well. I just craft certain items. And what I do get works well for my characters.
Lock Boxes I only get a few ground weapons that others put on the exchange. If it got my attention. That is what I usually get out from those. Those are a little more useful. Other than that I will keep on my purge as I get them. I don't need them, and I'm not wasting time with it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Its very logical. As it clogs up my inventory space as I need it for other items from the mission. So out the air lock they go. To make room for better stuff. That I can actually use.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Yeah, totally using a system where you can easily get scammed becuase some rich dude doesn't get the Cryptic doesn't want you having craptons of EC (hence the caps) is totally better.
You have to trade them the ec then they trade you the ship, they could always just leave after getting the ec. There is no handing the item over sends EC to you automatically with trade windows.
I saw them on the exchange. And not worth the time to put them up. Since they are practically worthless. Its faster to get rid of them.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
They cna put it in for a high Zen price. Then you can only get if you really spend a lot of money on it.
Or they can do it like now, and put it in a lockbox or promotion box. Now you have a (tiny) chance to get it for cheap, and still a guarantee to get it you spend a lot of money on it. For the latter part you need to trade with a player, but it can't be bad for a massive multiplayer game if there are actual reasons to have other players in the game and interact with them.
Something does not have to be rare to be desirable.
For example, if they had made this a regular 30$ ship in the CStore, it would still be highly desirable. There is a large segment of the game population who covet this ship. And always will. No matter how many others have one, to the individual who wants one, for the iconic nature, it will always hold the same value.
Even if people were flying around everywhere in T6 Connies, most people who covet this ship would still want one just as badly, due to its iconic nature.
But perhaps by "Desire" you actually mean "prestigious" ?
Also, desire is highly subjective and personal. I know many people who desire a Toyota Corolla, but in fact you can find them everywhere.
Just saying, rarity doesn't always determine desirability.
Very true. I desire it for that is my #1 ship in Star Trek. I would used the TRIBBLE out of it in my AOY. I didn't care if it was 4000 Zen. I would pay more than that. As long it was in the c store so I could save up for it to buy in due time. Even throw it the lobi store. Even that would give me a goal and spend $ to get it. What they did is a fool's game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Hmm whats better about a 100% chance of getting the ship unlocked on all your characters for 30 bucks vs a 1% chance out of an R&D box (which costs around $2.50) for a single character..
Yeah I can't see anything better either
It's a money making idea that has nothing to do with giving everyone a 'chance' (and I use chance loosely because it's a BS arguement)
Except this thing is going above the EC cap in value meaning you would likely eventually get to a point where you would have spent less money on the chance boxes, as the in-game economy is under the control of a handful of ridiculously EC wealthy and yet still greedy as heck players.
Especially since the more people who switch to buying from another player from chance boxing it the fewer their are in game.
You just described the our world, there, too....replace players with bankers and other special interest.
Anyhow, yep, amazing how those players got tons of EC in bank, yet it's still not enough.