People honestly believe that there was not an art team on NMS and it was all randomly generated by an algorithm?
Oh and I decided to drop down for the pregame package and take NMS for a spin. At a minimum it's another game tool around on since I only play about 4-5 right now, might mix it up.
Not saying I'm dropping STO, dropped way too much money over the years to drop this old girl. Plus still the only major game to get that Star trek feeling.
Though just finished the last chapter in SWTOR, ugh...might step off that game for A LONG time.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
seriously.... why is everyone obsessed with a technicolor eyesore, thats FPS only and ridiculously overpriced?? Oh and one that seems to be a major bomb if the reviews are accurate
You know, Sometimes I would just like to explore a pretty map, maybe see something I've never seen before.
If cryptic could just incorporate this into the game using the old exploration system, maybe add some random crafting materials to help us upgrade our gear in these maps, (various levels of rarity depending on if you play it on normal, or whatever) they'd totally be worth exploring to me.
Space and ground, then maybe add an NPC here and there to attack us, no conversation needed and I'd be cool with that.
Some of those maps were wonderful, some were silly. But that's Trek too no?
Then you could have players who explore, to sell what they find, it could open up a whole new way to play and add a new dimension of game play to crafting.
Yeah, as one person put it, NMS is a pretty picture to look at and do nothing with.
Well that is what a pure exploration game is. Exploration seems to always be the same. Go to this point of interest, grab what looks interesting, then go to the next. Even the environment hazards feel the same. Cold, heat, or radiation is all treated the same way. Find some shelter after a bit of travelling, go back to your ship, or repair your environmental protection. The only thing that changed exploration a bit was finding some underwater ruins, but that just adds a oxygen meter and using the jetpack to refill your oxygen.
Yeah NMS is fun. Fun watching the opening animation, getting some white TRIBBLE through the middle then crash.
Great job there developers. To fingers up. You can guess which fingers.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
This game's reviews are surprisingly negative. Especially from the users. Didn't read the reviews and comments on Steam but the comments posted on GameSpot and MetaCritic were far beyond nasty and mean.
I think Hello Games and Sony brought this on themselves. Seems like they pandered to people's wildest expectations and then published something which has not lived up those same expectations. Albeit so far. Which is a shame really. The concept is not bad. But according the reviews I've read, the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I held off jumping into STO when it first appeared. For the reasons listed above. May try this one out a couple of years down the road. After all the hoopla dies down and the dev team for NMS gets serious about making the game better.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
This game's reviews are surprisingly negative. Especially from the users. Didn't read the reviews and comments on Steam but the comments posted on GameSpot and MetaCritic were far beyond nasty and mean.
I think Hello Games and Sony brought this on themselves. Seems like they pandered to people's wildest expectations and then published something which has not lived up those same expectations. Albeit so far. Which is a shame really. The concept is not bad. But according the reviews I've read, the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I held off jumping into STO when it first appeared. For the reasons listed above. May try this one out a couple of years down the road. After all the hoopla dies down and the dev team for NMS gets serious about making the game better.
I have neither played the game nor read the reviews, but from what I understand NMS is and what the players react negatively about I am fairly certain NMS was advertised wrongly. Players expectations were very different to what a sandbox game like this is able to offer. What NMS does is impressive, but it's nothing that can really stand on his own without having a lot more to go for it. I don't know if there's a single player campaign involved, but the amount of people that can play sandbox/roguelike games for years isn't so big it justifies having AAA titles made.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
The reviews are very bad targ, the game is nowhere near what it was advertized to be, all the "unique" worlds are basically reskins.
I suspected as much. People have a wrong expectation what a "sandbox" game is - be it because they don't understand it or maybe it was hyped/advertised wrong I can't say.
Playing in a partly random game environment is different from playing a cinematic game and if you don't enjoy to largely "write your own story" those games might not be for you. It's like encountering some random mobs in a big RPG like Fallout or Skyrim - you will have a glorious battle and epic showdown right here, but it's all just for you. The game won't care, there's nobody to cheer to you unlike in a scripted story event which people might miss otherwise.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
See thats the thing, I love sandbox games, so much so that when I am playing a game such as an Elder Scrolls or Fallout I will literally hit the level cap without ever touching the main story.
I used "you" as a general term, not "you" in particular. Sorry about that, sometimes I miss that this can't be done in English I meant if people can't enjoy that their reviews may be more negative because they went in expecting all those "marvels" and still have cinematic entertainment. Just speculating because, as I said, I neither know the game nor the reviews personally.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You may never run into another player in that galaxy.
In fact, the video above details the story how two players arranged a meeting on the very first day of the release... but they were not able to see each other being in one and same place at the one and the same map of the one and the same server.
So you can't meet other players in NMS due to one simple reason: when you do - the game just won't show them to you.
Apparently, it is the result of development team failing to deliver multi-player. The feature they themselves said will be in the game (not "possibly", "maybe", "we're thinking about it", but "will be"). Hell, they even printed the game box with network game symbol on it, but then had to put a sticker above to cover it (lol).
@angrytarg not all the bad reviews are because of the game being sandbox or mis advertised or mis sold, quite a few are because the game is so freakin broken it makes STO look bug free. There are people out there with gaming monster rigs that cant hit 30fps, most the people near minimum stated spec cant play the game at all, and a shockingly huge amount have a wide number of crash bugs... and this is a game that was in early access for quite some time.
It's Spore all over again and I was seriously expecting it.
As soon as I read that it was procedural generation and that the game was so vast it'd be impossible for players to meet, I was like "Oh, great, so the game is gonna be entertaining for a few hours and then it's gonna be boring and repetitive as hell, because "vast map, endless environments" is usually a marketing alteration of "we don't have a solid gameplay and the environments are repetitive, so let's just say the game is huge not to look bad"".
If a game puts "vast universe with countless planets to explore" as its selling points, you run away, because the gameplay is most likely to get repetitive and uninteresting very fast.
Also, "Arkham Knight PC's levels of bad" is the icing to the cake.
You keep saying that. But are you saying there are no other games out there that already generate completely "random worlds", which is all the "procedurally generated" label means. I mean if that's what you're saying, then you need to look around a bit more.
But it used to have something very similar to that. And that's all still there in the engine and the code and what not.
let me correct that for you!
But it used to have something completely different to that. And that's all still there in the engine and the code and what not.
Actually Genesis was never part of STO. It was a dev tool used to make random junk missions that the devs had to patch up to make them playable before porting them into STO.
I've played NMS for some hours and the only thing i can say is: NMS is like an ocean - but only as deep as a bathtub. STO is as small as a bathtub but as deep as an ocean. IMHO the perfect game would be a combination of both games - STO and NMS... imagine... the deep, intensive story content of STO combined with the exploration aspect NWS is delivering - IMHO that would be an absolute perfect Star Trek experience.
I've played NMS for some hours and the only thing i can say is: NMS is like an ocean - but only as deep as a bathtub. STO is as small as a bathtub but as deep as an ocean. IMHO the perfect game would be a combination of both games - STO and NMS... imagine... the deep, intensive story content of STO combined with the exploration aspect NWS is delivering - IMHO that would be an absolute perfect Star Trek experience.
That's funny. I heard the old exploration missions described exactly like that.
Actually Genesis was never part of STO. It was a dev tool used to make random junk missions that the devs had to patch up to make them playable before porting them into STO.
Sigh. It was always a part of Star Trek Online. And it was a tool, developed by Cryptic for Star Trek Online. You're really adding confusion to the discussion with that post since you're right that it was a tool. But wrong about how you are characterizing it.
So instead, let's just go right to the source, Daniel Stahl (you may remember him), from mid-2009:
Hello, my name is Daniel Stahl and I’m a producer on Star Trek Online.
Ask any Star Trek fan to quote the opening to the TV show and you’ll hear the words “…to boldly go where no one has gone before.”
It’s a defining characteristic and mission statement in Star Trek. Explore. Go out there and see what you find.
As a producer, it begs the question, “How?” How can you explore someplace new in an MMO where there are zones and maps and contacts and missions that everyone seems to have access to over the course of their character’s career? Most game content is hand created by a staff of designers and artists who spend time placing things where they should be, making sure that there is a natural progression to what you do. It is a lot of work just to make a single planetary system.
In order to make a game universe where players can go somewhere no one else has gone before, we’d have to make more maps than we physically have time for and we would have to keep making them until the end of time. So how can we deliver on this concept?
To answer this question we turned to the Star Trek movies for inspiration and found the Genesis Program.
In the movie cannon the Genesis program used technology to convert nothing into something. “Life from Lifelessness.” This was the Creation device that Khan threatened to destroy the Enterprise with and what eventually spawned the Genesis planet.
Star Trek Online has embraced the concept of Genesis as a method to generate planets and systems that no one has seen before. But as with any technology it requires a lot of brainstorming, engineering, and testing to make it work right.
The core concept of Genesis in Star Trek Online is to create places for you to go without requiring hours of art and development time for each location. In a lot of ways, when we think of Genesis we think of the Holodeck computer.
On the Next Generation TV show, when a character wanted to go someplace on the Holodeck, they would describe to the computer the locale.
“Computer, load up a beach on the shores of Risa” is all the character would have to say, and then a few seconds later, they are standing on the beaches of Risa.
But it often didn’t end there. Sometimes the characters would further iterate descriptions to the computer to fine tune the Holodeck program.
“Computer, add a cabana and a mariachi band. … Oh and set the local time to sunset.”
A few seconds later there’s a holographic band playing music next to your cabana.
Describing what you want in real terms is the key to the Genesis System in Star Trek Online.
“Give me an M class planet with a Federation complex set up in the mountains where some scientists are milling about ...”
“… Now add a bunch of Klingons attacking the complex …”
“... Oh, and make sure the Klingons brought some Targs!”
“… Now make sure one of the Klingons is a badass Dahar master”
“… And how about a really funny looking Ferengi running around screaming!”
I can keep on going for days like this. But that’s the point.
By building tools that automatically create what comes out of our designer’s brains in descriptive words, it allows us to use Genesis to generate locations that are in essence the direct results of our imaginations.
This is the technology that will allow us to generate the thousands of unexplored worlds that no one has ever been to yet without requiring a small nation of artists and designers to make.
It is a testimony to the spirit of Star Trek that the technology we are using to create these worlds is a direct inspiration from the show itself.
It only begs the question, “I wonder what is out there …”
Some things to remember about this post: Exploration is deemed by one of the company's developers who later went on to be the head guy in charge of the game as "a defining characteristic and mission statement in Star Trek. Explore. Go out there and see what you find."
So you know, all those folks who keep asking "why does everyone think Star Trek is about exploration?" ... can count CRYPTIC as the part of everyone that approached a Star Trek MMORPG with the idea that Exploration was a defining characteristic of Star Trek.
More to the point that you brought up however, that the Genesis Tool was something the developers just grabbed and modified ... it's not. It's something created for this game. As what Stahl says about the name clearly underscores:
"Star Trek Online has embraced the concept of Genesis as a method to generate planets and systems that no one has seen before."
This part is the very heart of this topic: "This is the technology that will allow us to generate the thousands of unexplored worlds that no one has ever been to yet without requiring a small nation of artists and designers to make. "
Because that's beat for beat pretty much the exact same thing No Man's Sky is trying to be.
And again, to specifically address your statement that this wasn't developed as part of Star Trek Online ... as Daniel Stahl once wrote back in 2009:
"It is a testimony to the spirit of Star Trek that the technology we are using to create these worlds is a direct inspiration from the show itself. "
So yeah. You're right. Genesis was a developer tool. But it was definitely made specifically FOR Star Trek Online. And one of the guys most involved with it was the guy that ended up in charge of the entire game. And the whole core of what it was technically and in practice is very much what No Man's Sky is. Just on a different scale in terms of art and implementation.
You keep saying that. But are you saying there are no other games out there that already generate completely "random worlds", which is all the "procedurally generated" label means. I mean if that's what you're saying, then you need to look around a bit more.
not really. all I ment was the space generation. that hasn't been really attempted the way this was done. So, it is the first of it's kind. I don't know of any other games able to do a galaxy-wide generation. Now if you can list a couple here, I'd love to see them, since most such games are Zone based.
I like space games.
I like exploration games.
I like combat games.
Where's the good ones, cause I've run out of any worth playing a long time ago. Just been too stubborn to give up STO.
Comments
Oh and I decided to drop down for the pregame package and take NMS for a spin. At a minimum it's another game tool around on since I only play about 4-5 right now, might mix it up.
Not saying I'm dropping STO, dropped way too much money over the years to drop this old girl. Plus still the only major game to get that Star trek feeling.
Though just finished the last chapter in SWTOR, ugh...might step off that game for A LONG time.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
My character Tsin'xing
If cryptic could just incorporate this into the game using the old exploration system, maybe add some random crafting materials to help us upgrade our gear in these maps, (various levels of rarity depending on if you play it on normal, or whatever) they'd totally be worth exploring to me.
Space and ground, then maybe add an NPC here and there to attack us, no conversation needed and I'd be cool with that.
Some of those maps were wonderful, some were silly. But that's Trek too no?
Then you could have players who explore, to sell what they find, it could open up a whole new way to play and add a new dimension of game play to crafting.
Well that is what a pure exploration game is. Exploration seems to always be the same. Go to this point of interest, grab what looks interesting, then go to the next. Even the environment hazards feel the same. Cold, heat, or radiation is all treated the same way. Find some shelter after a bit of travelling, go back to your ship, or repair your environmental protection. The only thing that changed exploration a bit was finding some underwater ruins, but that just adds a oxygen meter and using the jetpack to refill your oxygen.
Agreed. No point in having a universe-sized sandbox, if you can't build sandcastles in it.
Great job there developers. To fingers up. You can guess which fingers.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I think Hello Games and Sony brought this on themselves. Seems like they pandered to people's wildest expectations and then published something which has not lived up those same expectations. Albeit so far. Which is a shame really. The concept is not bad. But according the reviews I've read, the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I held off jumping into STO when it first appeared. For the reasons listed above. May try this one out a couple of years down the road. After all the hoopla dies down and the dev team for NMS gets serious about making the game better.
I have neither played the game nor read the reviews, but from what I understand NMS is and what the players react negatively about I am fairly certain NMS was advertised wrongly. Players expectations were very different to what a sandbox game like this is able to offer. What NMS does is impressive, but it's nothing that can really stand on his own without having a lot more to go for it. I don't know if there's a single player campaign involved, but the amount of people that can play sandbox/roguelike games for years isn't so big it justifies having AAA titles made.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
let me correct that for you!
But it used to have something completely different to that. And that's all still there in the engine and the code and what not.
I suspected as much. People have a wrong expectation what a "sandbox" game is - be it because they don't understand it or maybe it was hyped/advertised wrong I can't say.
Playing in a partly random game environment is different from playing a cinematic game and if you don't enjoy to largely "write your own story" those games might not be for you. It's like encountering some random mobs in a big RPG like Fallout or Skyrim - you will have a glorious battle and epic showdown right here, but it's all just for you. The game won't care, there's nobody to cheer to you unlike in a scripted story event which people might miss otherwise.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I used "you" as a general term, not "you" in particular. Sorry about that, sometimes I miss that this can't be done in English
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The only thing that will kill off STO is STO.
Or so the Devs say...
There story systems seems more merchant oriented.
So you can't meet other players in NMS due to one simple reason: when you do - the game just won't show them to you.
Apparently, it is the result of development team failing to deliver multi-player. The feature they themselves said will be in the game (not "possibly", "maybe", "we're thinking about it", but "will be"). Hell, they even printed the game box with network game symbol on it, but then had to put a sticker above to cover it (lol).
As soon as I read that it was procedural generation and that the game was so vast it'd be impossible for players to meet, I was like "Oh, great, so the game is gonna be entertaining for a few hours and then it's gonna be boring and repetitive as hell, because "vast map, endless environments" is usually a marketing alteration of "we don't have a solid gameplay and the environments are repetitive, so let's just say the game is huge not to look bad"".
If a game puts "vast universe with countless planets to explore" as its selling points, you run away, because the gameplay is most likely to get repetitive and uninteresting very fast.
Also, "Arkham Knight PC's levels of bad" is the icing to the cake.
My character Tsin'xing
Link: Castra - a german Fleet.
That's funny. I heard the old exploration missions described exactly like that.
Sigh. It was always a part of Star Trek Online. And it was a tool, developed by Cryptic for Star Trek Online. You're really adding confusion to the discussion with that post since you're right that it was a tool. But wrong about how you are characterizing it.
So instead, let's just go right to the source, Daniel Stahl (you may remember him), from mid-2009:
Some things to remember about this post: Exploration is deemed by one of the company's developers who later went on to be the head guy in charge of the game as "a defining characteristic and mission statement in Star Trek. Explore. Go out there and see what you find."
So you know, all those folks who keep asking "why does everyone think Star Trek is about exploration?" ... can count CRYPTIC as the part of everyone that approached a Star Trek MMORPG with the idea that Exploration was a defining characteristic of Star Trek.
More to the point that you brought up however, that the Genesis Tool was something the developers just grabbed and modified ... it's not. It's something created for this game. As what Stahl says about the name clearly underscores:
"Star Trek Online has embraced the concept of Genesis as a method to generate planets and systems that no one has seen before."
This part is the very heart of this topic: "This is the technology that will allow us to generate the thousands of unexplored worlds that no one has ever been to yet without requiring a small nation of artists and designers to make. "
Because that's beat for beat pretty much the exact same thing No Man's Sky is trying to be.
And again, to specifically address your statement that this wasn't developed as part of Star Trek Online ... as Daniel Stahl once wrote back in 2009:
"It is a testimony to the spirit of Star Trek that the technology we are using to create these worlds is a direct inspiration from the show itself. "
So yeah. You're right. Genesis was a developer tool. But it was definitely made specifically FOR Star Trek Online. And one of the guys most involved with it was the guy that ended up in charge of the entire game. And the whole core of what it was technically and in practice is very much what No Man's Sky is. Just on a different scale in terms of art and implementation.
not really. all I ment was the space generation. that hasn't been really attempted the way this was done. So, it is the first of it's kind. I don't know of any other games able to do a galaxy-wide generation. Now if you can list a couple here, I'd love to see them, since most such games are Zone based.
I like space games.
I like exploration games.
I like combat games.
Where's the good ones, cause I've run out of any worth playing a long time ago. Just been too stubborn to give up STO.