I have faith that they will do whatever it takes to not bury the needle. Raising the cap is unacceptable to the vast majority who see something in the 200's (less than half what it is now) as reasonable. They know that. There are plenty of other methods, including a very direct approach.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
A large dilithium sink or two would help bring that back down. Currently, with the Infinity Lock Box promo in play, things are getting close to the absolute current limit of 500.
...Cryptic themselves (not too low that it negatively affects revenue).
My economics training is old and my memory rusty, and I'm not certain how it applies to MMOs, but is that really a thing? As long as Zen purchases remain consistently profitable, does it actually affect Cryptic how the owners of that Zen choose to spend it (that is, by either spending it themselves or selling it to another player to spend)? Indeed, part of me wants to wager that a lower Zen:dilithium ratio is preferable, since there is no real word profit to stockpiled dilithium, but the more the market can encourage conversion of that stockpile to newly purchased Zen, the more Cryptic profits. It seems to my inexpert eye that, so long as the market will consistently bear a low rate, a low rate is preferable to Cryptic.
It's not what people do with the Zen they purchased with real money that I am referring to. I am referring to people who grinds Dil to exchange it for Zen.
At an exchange rate of 500:1 some players may simply decide it is easier and quicker to just purchase Zen with real money. At an exchange rate of 100:1 (the closest I've seen is 118 back in Feb 2014 when I started) players are generally more inclined to grind Dil for Zen; although purchasing Zen with real money is still a whole lot faster. The right balance is whatever the exchange rate is where players (excluding strictly F2P players) are willing to grind Dil for Zen and also purchase Zen to buy whatever they want from the C-Store.
Every Zen that you buy with your own money is a Zen that you don't buy off of the exchange. If the Zen on the exchange doesn't move, sales of Zen to specifically put on the exchange will decrease. Zen is Zen is Zen, whether you yourself buy it outright or you buy it from someone else who bought it outright. There's no gain in that equation for Cryptic. One could argue that a lot of the people who are getting their Zen from the exchange now simply don't have a means to buy it for themselves, so they simply won't buy it. Similarly, Zen sellers who have seen their purchasing power increase steadily over the last 18 months or so will likely view the price caps as an effective cut to their profits, and thus some of them might cut back on the amount that they spend on Zen to list on the Exchange, or get out of it entirely.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
The problem is, that the game needs a new, more or less constant Dil-sink.
Introducing new stuff to buy for Dil (new holdings, items etc.) might work for a short
time but once everyone has catched up we are back at the same problem.
So the game needs a sink that will constantly draw dil away from the Dil-Exchange.
The problem is, that the game needs a new, more or less constant Dil-sink.
Introducing new stuff to buy for Dil (new holdings, items etc.) might work for a short
time but once everyone has catched up we are back at the same problem.
So the game needs a sink that will constantly draw dil away from the Dil-Exchange.
it would have have to be mandatory or nearly so to have a major effect and then people would flip out cause cryptic is stealing their dil cause mmo gamers are like that sometimes. just look what happen when the added the upgrade system or the revamped crafting system.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
it would have have to be mandatory or nearly so to have a major effect and then people would flip out cause cryptic is stealing their dil cause mmo gamers are like that sometimes. just look what happen when the added the upgrade system or the revamped crafting system.
Like I've said before, an interesting way would be to add a new market to trade lobi for dil.
That way you would draw a lot of dil away from the F2P players, since it a great way for them to
get lobi stuff without opening lockboxes or spending vast amounts of EC on the Ex, they would be
able to buy the lobi consoles and also you would even out the market in case of lockbox-releases,
since dil/zen will go up due to key purchases while dil/lobi will go down due to more lobis on
the market from the opened lockboxes.
Dil can be earned for free, why in the world would they give lobi which is an reward for opening lockboxes to all these entitlement freeloaders.
Grind more a swipe a credit card. As soon as you learn nothing is free in life maybe you will enjoy the game.
Let me cite Cryptics reason for introducing the Dil Exchange:
The Currency Exchange will allow players to trade their Dilithium for other players' Zen. Why is this important? What this means is that anyone who is willing to spend their time to get Dilithium can trade that away for Zen, which means anyone willing to spend enough time can get anything and everything from the C-Store without spending any money. What it also means is that players with Zen can trade their points to get Dilithium that they want to get the in-game gear and starships they want.
The key thing to note here is that Cryptic will not be selling Dilithium, so there will only be as much Dilithium available as the player base wants to trade away. The laws of supply and demand come into play here. If Dilithium is difficult to come by, it will have a high value. If it's easy to come by, its value will decrease.
By now Dil is way to easy to come by and thus it has very low value and there is no trend that this
will change soon. You can use the same reason behind enabeling players to trade Dil for Zen to
trade Dil for Lobi.
Open up the market and let players decide it they want to sell them.
Let's assume someone can max a character's dil refinement of 8k in 10 minutes (unlikely but for argument's sake lets go with it).
Which means...
8000 * 6 (10 minutes = 6 per hour) 48,000 dilithium per hour
48,000 dilithium / 500:1 rate = 96 Zen per hour
96 * 8 hours (average full time work day in US) = 768 Zen per day
$1.00 (US) = 100 Zen, and with an average minimum wage of $7.25 (US) so you are effectively spending all day to 'earn' about one work-hour's worth of Zen...
So stating that dil grinders are getting Zen for free is horribly inaccurate, even at 48,000 dil/hour you are still investing significantly more time than is necessary to get your Zen.
As far as "market speculation" and wondering what Cryptic might/will do- keep this in mind...
higher Dil->Zen conversion ratio benefits Cryptic the most, as it makes their Zen more valuable, and more people will be forced to buy Zen with RL monies. Cryptic doesn't make anything from people who freeload.
Personally, I ignore the Dil->Zen conversion because it's so imbalanced, if I want something I simply buy Zen. If there's nothing that interests me in the C-Store, I simply don't buy any.
I think it only matters most to people who don't want to spend any money yet want to reap the rewards just for playing the game. Good luck with that, lemme know how it all works out for you years from now when you're still grinding away to get those C-Store ships.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will have already played and enjoyed the game.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
In the past, people bought zen for the purpose of obtaining dil to use in the game. Hardly anyone does anymore since there's really very little point to it anymore.
Because so few people buy zen to get dil, there isnt much zen available on the dilex, and its price in dil goes up and up and up.
Changing the game so that people have a compelling reason to spend real money to get dil again would lower the dilex, while at the same time giving people a reason to spend money.
Or... they could just do away with the Dil exchange altogether, convert the Dil sinks to EC and then voila! Instant resolution.
Except, freeloaders won't like it because they're forced to actually spend money on what they want outside of what's being offered for "free" to them in the game.
Hey, I'd like a nice Ferrari 360 Spyder, too- but I can't afford it. So you know what I do? I make do without.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
It may be time to nerf Dilithium rewards to start the Dilithium reduction in-game. It may also be time to reduce the refinement cap from 8,000 Dilithium Ore to 6,000 down to 4,000 Dilithium Ore per day. Increasing the number of Contraband needed to create 2,000 Dilithium Ore or reducing Dilithium Ore received from turning in Contraband could also be a way to reduce Dilithium flow. Normalizing the amount of Dilithium Ore earned at each of the battlezones could be another way to reduce the flow of Dilithium. Reduction of Dilithium from Admirality missions again would be another means of reducing the flow of Dilithium.
I do not believe adding more sinks would solve the problem in the long-term. In the short-term, we could see Dilithium rates fall, but once sinks are filled, the exchange would be back to the same place it is now. The reality is that Dilithium may need to become harder to obtain so that it maintains its value.
It may be time to nerf Dilithium rewards to start the Dilithium reduction in-game. It may also be time to reduce the refinement cap from 8,000 Dilithium Ore to 6,000 down to 4,000 Dilithium Ore per day.
And thus massively hurt all the new players and casual players with limited playtime and players with single or 2-3 playable characters, for all of whom the current situation with dilithium incomes/refining is just enough to reach their daily refinement cap without putting too much extra effort into it.
Yes, that's a great idea. I'm sure it'll go so well with the general game audience. To TRIBBLE a major part of the game's population in favor of a limited group of zen buyers.
I have to repeat this again - the game's economy cannot and should not be designed primarly in view of long-term players, who amassed a considerable stockpile of various resources, got their gear upgraded etc.
If they let us spend unrefined dil there wouldn't be much of a problem.
Currently its a case of being able to hit the max refining limit on several characters every day.
Give us the option to buy stuff with unrefined dil, make it more expensive if you want to (say an item is 8000 refined dil, let us by it for 12000 unrefined dil), but give us to option to either stockpile dil to refine or use it as a currency.
I say let them raise the conversion limit- so that even the people who are here advocating for the cap raise get what they wish for... then when they go to supplement their own C-store purchases and realize how much their Dil has devalued, perhaps they'll take a long hard look at who the "pawns" really are in this game. (Hint: Cryptic controls this game)
The Dil/Zen conversion system was never designed to be something that allowed 1) People to get everything they want for "free" just by playing the game nor 2) An impossible means of obtaining what they want. It was meant to be a supplemental system in tandem with people buying Zen to buy goods, thus benefiting both Cryptic AND the players.
I've watched the rubber-banding, market speculation and everything else for years. It's not about "supply and demand" or any of that other BS. It's about people trying to manipulate the system to get what they want.
For those of you who haven't quite learned this valuable life lesson yet-
Money talks... BS walks.
Cryptic doesn't "owe" you a damned thing. They're a business, and businesses serve one purpose- to make money. It's not a non-profit charity.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
If they let us spend unrefined dil there wouldn't be much of a problem.
Currently its a case of being able to hit the max refining limit on several characters every day.
Give us the option to buy stuff with unrefined dil, make it more expensive if you want to (say an item is 8000 refined dil, let us by it for 12000 unrefined dil), but give us to option to either stockpile dil to refine or use it as a currency.
problem with that is it effectively adding more of a worthless currency which only makes it worth less. sinks or reduced earning power are really the only thongs that can increase it's value.
I think the best way to do that currently is set up something that slowly bleeds dil out the system to combat the every growing amount of dil mixed with one or two big things to take a bite out of the huge reserves vets have.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Gee, we could just set a refinement cap 20k per day -- for the entire ACCOUNT. Casuals are completely unscathed and farmers stop overproducing to the point their crops have become worthless...
Gee, we could just set a refinement cap 20k per day -- for the entire ACCOUNT. Casuals are completely unscathed and farmers stop overproducing to the point their crops have become worthless...
oh, lets try this. the rage would be funny as hell.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
It's not the supply of dil that is the main problem, it is the demand for dil.
The utility of dil has gone down a lot in the last few years. The upgrade system was a temporary shot in the arm for demand, but it wasn't enough.
You need to have it so that people want dil so much they are willing to spend real money to get it. That isnt happening anymore, if it was, zen would buy much less dil than it does.
People buy zen to get c-store stuff, hardly anyone buys it to get dil anymore. What would they even do with all that dil?
I don't do this often, but this guy is right.
Lately there has been a steady (not counting the last couple of months, which can be attributed to the development of AoY) demand for Zen (new C-Store ships, lockboxes, etc...), but the demand for dilithium has been dwindling since there have been few new 'toys' that require dilithium to buy/use/upgrade.
The obvious answer (albeit the toughest to nail down lol) would be to implement a renewable demand for dilithium, which would entice the paying players to buy Zen to sell, to counterbalance the players who want to buy Zen with their dilithium.
Increasing the exchange limit would be the last thing the developers should do, as it wouldn't solve any problems and would devalue dilithium to the extent where players wouldn't bother trading it for Zen, which would reduce Cryptic's Zen sales as Zen sellers wouldn't want to buy Zen to sell if they have no buyers...
It's a fine balance, Bort has his work cut out for him.
Gee, we could just set a refinement cap 20k per day -- for the entire ACCOUNT. Casuals are completely unscathed and farmers stop overproducing to the point their crops have become worthless...
Actually this idea (though perhaps not specifically 20k) isn't really all that funny. Part of the problem could be attributed to the fact that a player can easily sidestep the 8k/day limit by using more alts...
Using alts it is currently theoretically possible to get 400,000 dilithium/day, by maxing out 50 characters a day. I doubt that this would be feasable to accomplish, but the fact that it *is* possible does make the 8k/day limit somewhat of a placebo with little actual effect to the in-game economy...
And just for fun I'll trot out my main Dil sink suggestion:
Each time you unlock a Ship Skill on any of your captains, its added to your personal Dilithium store visible to every captain on your account. Your other captains can individually buy that ship skill for 250,000 Dilithium.
Done. Every faction imbalance in Ship Trait access wiped away in a single instant. Every rare T6 you acquire from a lock box or super-prize creates a built-in sink for potentially MILLIONS of dilithium as you copy that skill out to your other captains.
Simple. Fair. And an incredibly DEEP hole that grows with every new T6 ship they release.
Comments
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Every Zen that you buy with your own money is a Zen that you don't buy off of the exchange. If the Zen on the exchange doesn't move, sales of Zen to specifically put on the exchange will decrease. Zen is Zen is Zen, whether you yourself buy it outright or you buy it from someone else who bought it outright. There's no gain in that equation for Cryptic. One could argue that a lot of the people who are getting their Zen from the exchange now simply don't have a means to buy it for themselves, so they simply won't buy it. Similarly, Zen sellers who have seen their purchasing power increase steadily over the last 18 months or so will likely view the price caps as an effective cut to their profits, and thus some of them might cut back on the amount that they spend on Zen to list on the Exchange, or get out of it entirely.
Introducing new stuff to buy for Dil (new holdings, items etc.) might work for a short
time but once everyone has catched up we are back at the same problem.
So the game needs a sink that will constantly draw dil away from the Dil-Exchange.
it would have have to be mandatory or nearly so to have a major effect and then people would flip out cause cryptic is stealing their dil cause mmo gamers are like that sometimes. just look what happen when the added the upgrade system or the revamped crafting system.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Like I've said before, an interesting way would be to add a new market to trade lobi for dil.
That way you would draw a lot of dil away from the F2P players, since it a great way for them to
get lobi stuff without opening lockboxes or spending vast amounts of EC on the Ex, they would be
able to buy the lobi consoles and also you would even out the market in case of lockbox-releases,
since dil/zen will go up due to key purchases while dil/lobi will go down due to more lobis on
the market from the opened lockboxes.
Grind more a swipe a credit card. As soon as you learn nothing is free in life maybe you will enjoy the game.
Let me cite Cryptics reason for introducing the Dil Exchange:
By now Dil is way to easy to come by and thus it has very low value and there is no trend that this
will change soon. You can use the same reason behind enabeling players to trade Dil for Zen to
trade Dil for Lobi.
Open up the market and let players decide it they want to sell them.
Let's assume someone can max a character's dil refinement of 8k in 10 minutes (unlikely but for argument's sake lets go with it).
Which means...
8000 * 6 (10 minutes = 6 per hour) 48,000 dilithium per hour
48,000 dilithium / 500:1 rate = 96 Zen per hour
96 * 8 hours (average full time work day in US) = 768 Zen per day
$1.00 (US) = 100 Zen, and with an average minimum wage of $7.25 (US) so you are effectively spending all day to 'earn' about one work-hour's worth of Zen...
So stating that dil grinders are getting Zen for free is horribly inaccurate, even at 48,000 dil/hour you are still investing significantly more time than is necessary to get your Zen.
Just doesn't seem worth it, does it?
"-Grind is good!" --Gordon Geko
Accolades checklist: https://bit.ly/FLUFFYS
higher Dil->Zen conversion ratio benefits Cryptic the most, as it makes their Zen more valuable, and more people will be forced to buy Zen with RL monies. Cryptic doesn't make anything from people who freeload.
Personally, I ignore the Dil->Zen conversion because it's so imbalanced, if I want something I simply buy Zen. If there's nothing that interests me in the C-Store, I simply don't buy any.
I think it only matters most to people who don't want to spend any money yet want to reap the rewards just for playing the game. Good luck with that, lemme know how it all works out for you years from now when you're still grinding away to get those C-Store ships.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will have already played and enjoyed the game.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Or... they could just do away with the Dil exchange altogether, convert the Dil sinks to EC and then voila! Instant resolution.
Except, freeloaders won't like it because they're forced to actually spend money on what they want outside of what's being offered for "free" to them in the game.
Hey, I'd like a nice Ferrari 360 Spyder, too- but I can't afford it. So you know what I do? I make do without.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I do not believe adding more sinks would solve the problem in the long-term. In the short-term, we could see Dilithium rates fall, but once sinks are filled, the exchange would be back to the same place it is now. The reality is that Dilithium may need to become harder to obtain so that it maintains its value.
Yes, that's a great idea. I'm sure it'll go so well with the general game audience. To TRIBBLE a major part of the game's population in favor of a limited group of zen buyers.
I have to repeat this again - the game's economy cannot and should not be designed primarly in view of long-term players, who amassed a considerable stockpile of various resources, got their gear upgraded etc.
Currently its a case of being able to hit the max refining limit on several characters every day.
Give us the option to buy stuff with unrefined dil, make it more expensive if you want to (say an item is 8000 refined dil, let us by it for 12000 unrefined dil), but give us to option to either stockpile dil to refine or use it as a currency.
The Dil/Zen conversion system was never designed to be something that allowed 1) People to get everything they want for "free" just by playing the game nor 2) An impossible means of obtaining what they want. It was meant to be a supplemental system in tandem with people buying Zen to buy goods, thus benefiting both Cryptic AND the players.
I've watched the rubber-banding, market speculation and everything else for years. It's not about "supply and demand" or any of that other BS. It's about people trying to manipulate the system to get what they want.
For those of you who haven't quite learned this valuable life lesson yet-
Money talks... BS walks.
Cryptic doesn't "owe" you a damned thing. They're a business, and businesses serve one purpose- to make money. It's not a non-profit charity.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
problem with that is it effectively adding more of a worthless currency which only makes it worth less. sinks or reduced earning power are really the only thongs that can increase it's value.
I think the best way to do that currently is set up something that slowly bleeds dil out the system to combat the every growing amount of dil mixed with one or two big things to take a bite out of the huge reserves vets have.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
oh, lets try this. the rage would be funny as hell.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I don't do this often, but this guy is right.
Lately there has been a steady (not counting the last couple of months, which can be attributed to the development of AoY) demand for Zen (new C-Store ships, lockboxes, etc...), but the demand for dilithium has been dwindling since there have been few new 'toys' that require dilithium to buy/use/upgrade.
The obvious answer (albeit the toughest to nail down lol) would be to implement a renewable demand for dilithium, which would entice the paying players to buy Zen to sell, to counterbalance the players who want to buy Zen with their dilithium.
Increasing the exchange limit would be the last thing the developers should do, as it wouldn't solve any problems and would devalue dilithium to the extent where players wouldn't bother trading it for Zen, which would reduce Cryptic's Zen sales as Zen sellers wouldn't want to buy Zen to sell if they have no buyers...
It's a fine balance, Bort has his work cut out for him.
Actually this idea (though perhaps not specifically 20k) isn't really all that funny. Part of the problem could be attributed to the fact that a player can easily sidestep the 8k/day limit by using more alts...
Using alts it is currently theoretically possible to get 400,000 dilithium/day, by maxing out 50 characters a day. I doubt that this would be feasable to accomplish, but the fact that it *is* possible does make the 8k/day limit somewhat of a placebo with little actual effect to the in-game economy...
Each time you unlock a Ship Skill on any of your captains, its added to your personal Dilithium store visible to every captain on your account. Your other captains can individually buy that ship skill for 250,000 Dilithium.
Done. Every faction imbalance in Ship Trait access wiped away in a single instant. Every rare T6 you acquire from a lock box or super-prize creates a built-in sink for potentially MILLIONS of dilithium as you copy that skill out to your other captains.
Simple. Fair. And an incredibly DEEP hole that grows with every new T6 ship they release.