Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If they could've gotten, say, 600 for it, then yeah. Hitting the cap means that's it's basically on clearance for 100% of the time. The further away the hypothetical uncapped price would've been from the cap, the worse off a Zen seller is. That's why Neverwinter doesn't even have any Zen available for its dil equivalent: sellers don't want to sell it at such a low price.
And why are you so upset? It's not like dil is hard to acquire. I don't even play the actual game (missions, red alerts, etc.) except for "grind this mission for a limited-time reward" events, and I hit the daily refine cap on seven characters. That plentiful supply is part of why the exchange is so high. The other reason is that Zen unlocks the fancy new ships/etc. while dil does not (high demand for Zen, low demand for dil).
I guess I feel a little remorse for my reply so I'll hold off on a doozie of a zinger and just say that anyone who cares about balance as opposed to selfish desires knows that 500 is absurd already. Cryptic themselves know this and said they will take steps to fix the imbalance.
When I played the game seriously the exchange was 120-130 for a very long time, so to me this is the desired rate. However, I realize that Cryptic (not the market) has changed things and this rate is no longer fair. The vast majority opinion I believe would say 250-300 is fair now. Cryptic will adjust things to make it what they believe is most efficient for their pocketbook. I don't believe anything they can do will bring it below 400 again unless they have the cojones to nerf contraband. But I feel confident they will keep it below 500 - even if this means posting zen themselves at 490.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'd argue that there is nothing inherently ridiculous about the current exchange rate - it is after all a simple question of supply and demand. During the "good ole days" of 120 dil per zen, it was relatively hard to come by; since then, Cryptic have steadily increased sources of supply, so that even major sinks (like the upgrade system and research lab) did little to arrest the trend. Personally, I think they need to look at the supply side for a change and cut back on rewards from the admiralty system - after all, we've almost gone from 250 to 500 since the system was introduced in October last year (IIRC).
If there is a problem, it's that the current system favours long-term players with multiple alts and large collections of ships, who can exploit admiralty to the maximum. On the other hand you could argue that players who've spent years getting to that position have earned the right.
I guess I feel a little remorse for my reply so I'll hold off on a doozie of a zinger and just say that anyone who cares about balance as opposed to selfish desires knows that 500 is absurd already. Cryptic themselves know this and said they will take steps to fix the imbalance.
When I played the game seriously the exchange was 120-130 for a very long time, so to me this is the desired rate. However, I realize that Cryptic (not the market) has changed things and this rate is no longer fair. The vast majority opinion I believe would say 250-300 is fair now. Cryptic will adjust things to make it what they believe is most efficient for their pocketbook. I don't believe anything they can do will bring it below 400 again unless they have the cojones to nerf contraband. But I feel confident they will keep it below 500 - even if this means posting zen themselves at 490.
I agree, it's absurdly high. But... what are you gonna buy with dil? The last thing I bought was every single ship from the shipyard for one of my alts so he could do admiralty more easily. Think back on new ships, costumes, and other cool/fun stuff. Did it cost dil? No. It cost Zen, or keys (i.e. Zen), or logging in every day (metrics). Dil doesn't get content, it gets "sinks," in the form of fleets and upgrading. There is nothing awesome to buy with dil.
Of course, this makes perfect sense. Items for dil only make Cryptic money if the buyer got the dil by selling Zen, while items for Zen are guaranteed to generate revenue on every sale. That would be the most obvious way of calming the dil exchange: actually sell cool new things for dil rather than exclusively for Zen/metrics.
I used to think that keeping a playerbase healthy and happy was a good defense against player-unfriendly decisions, but nearly every game nowadays has proven that hilariously wrong. The games that shaft their players the hardest are making the biggest profits. Here's hoping that Cryptic/PWE can manage to avoid the worst of that temptation.
I guess I feel a little remorse for my reply so I'll hold off on a doozie of a zinger and just say that anyone who cares about balance as opposed to selfish desires knows that 500 is absurd already. Cryptic themselves know this and said they will take steps to fix the imbalance.
When I played the game seriously the exchange was 120-130 for a very long time, so to me this is the desired rate. However, I realize that Cryptic (not the market) has changed things and this rate is no longer fair. The vast majority opinion I believe would say 250-300 is fair now. Cryptic will adjust things to make it what they believe is most efficient for their pocketbook. I don't believe anything they can do will bring it below 400 again unless they have the cojones to nerf contraband. But I feel confident they will keep it below 500 - even if this means posting zen themselves at 490.
I agree, it's absurdly high. But... what are you gonna buy with dil? The last thing I bought was every single ship from the shipyard for one of my alts so he could do admiralty more easily. Think back on new ships, costumes, and other cool/fun stuff. Did it cost dil? No. It cost Zen, or keys (i.e. Zen), or logging in every day (metrics). Dil doesn't get content, it gets "sinks," in the form of fleets and upgrading. There is nothing awesome to buy with dil.
Of course, this makes perfect sense. Items for dil only make Cryptic money if the buyer got the dil by selling Zen, while items for Zen are guaranteed to generate revenue on every sale. That would be the most obvious way of calming the dil exchange: actually sell cool new things for dil rather than exclusively for Zen/metrics.
I used to think that keeping a playerbase healthy and happy was a good defense against player-unfriendly decisions, but nearly every game nowadays has proven that hilariously wrong. The games that shaft their players the hardest are making the biggest profits. Here's hoping that Cryptic/PWE can manage to avoid the worst of that temptation.
I agree with all of this. I was pointing out yesterday that the carrot is the way to go as players will simply avoid the stick (sink). We've seen many suggestions. The only one that would get me to spend big is housing. Once again Cryptic I tell yee - 10 million refined is yours today for a ski lodge on Andoria. We'll see what they do. My guess is just the fleet holding they were planning on doing anyway, maybe bumped up to September. It wont move the exchange 10 points.
Removing contraband from the game might move it 50.
STO has always been VERY generous. Timelines, for example, does not give one tiny pebble of dilithium and have said basically it's not going to happen. If you have charted the exchange rate you will see that February to today has been the real problem - 250 to 500 in 5 months. I honestly believe they want to keep it reasonable for grinders. I think they value grinders and are worried about losing them now.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
What I am saying is that the Zen buyers are actually competing with each other to buy the Zen because the amount of Zen sellers (thus the supply of Zen) is far less than the amoint of people looking to buy Zen (thus the demand of Zen). The Zen buyers are actually the creators of thier own price escelations.
Yeah, I think that's the point I was trying to make.. Except from the opposite perspective. Less demand for dilithium = less people willing to sell Zen for Dilithium, so the supply on the exchange decreases, contributing to the increaseed rates.
You are right, though, right now the demand for Zen is so high that dil grinders are scooping up as much Zen as they can get, driving the rates up.
Apologies if I wasn't being very clear, I should really get some sleep one of these days...
Last time I dumped a significant amount of Zen into the market, I got 324 dil to Zen. And this was before nearly everything in the game cost dilithium to upgrade. Yesterday I had 750 bonus Zen in my account, dumped it all at 487 dilithium rate, it was GLORIOUS! 365,250 dilithium KA CHING! Im a casual player, still under 10 toons, this stash should hold me a while at the rate I play and get around to upgrading weapons. I still had just over 100k dilithium from my last windfall selloff from a few YEARS ago. As a player willing to pay into this game about $50 a year, I want a good return on my investment. To me, the established range should be 300-500 dil to Zen. Less than 300, dil sellers are ripping off Zen sellers. Its still JUST a game, and these are just digital goods that disappear whatever day the game does. Im not giving away MY real money for peanuts to the freeloaders, you gotta EARN that Zen beotch! I stood my ground and refused to sell Zen at less than 300. Now the Zen seller days are here again and Im loving every minute of it. Cryptic should cater to US, we're the ones putting REAL money into this game. TRIBBLE the freeloaders who cry when its above 300!
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Last time I dumped a significant amount of Zen into the market, I got 324 dil to Zen. And this was before nearly everything in the game cost dilithium to upgrade. Yesterday I had 750 bonus Zen in my account, dumped it all at 487 dilithium rate, it was GLORIOUS! 365,250 dilithium KA CHING! Im a casual player, still under 10 toons, this stash should hold me a while at the rate I play and get around to upgrading weapons. I still had just over 100k dilithium from my last windfall selloff from a few YEARS ago. As a player willing to pay into this game about $50 a year, I want a good return on my investment. To me, the established range should be 300-500 dil to Zen. Less than 300, dil sellers are ripping off Zen sellers. Its still JUST a game, and these are just digital goods that disappear whatever day the game does. Im not giving away MY real money for peanuts to the freeloaders, you gotta EARN that Zen beotch! I stood my ground and refused to sell Zen at less than 300. Now the Zen seller days are here again and Im loving every minute of it. Cryptic should cater to US, we're the ones putting REAL money into this game. **** the freeloaders who cry when its above 300!
300 was actually reasonable. And stop whining that we are taking your money. You're the ONE that chose to pay Cryptic $50 for zen. Not us. Get over yourself please.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Oh well , I guess we should have more event-after-event-after-event-after-event , with all of them giving out Dil awards + no Dil sinks and then claim that Cryptic do not manipulate the Dil exchange (because papa Smurf said so !) .
This lockbox will destroy STO's economy for years to come if Cryptic doesn't do something about it...
I usually don't care about lockboxes but even I want all 4 ships...
You can kiss goodbye sub-500 zen for at least a year...
I'd say the economy was already destroyed when the Infinity Lockbox was introduced. The Kelvin Lockbox though will likely keep the exchange at 500 if we're not yet there.
I do not apologize for any of my earlier posts. When the F2Pers start talking about how their time is less valuable due to the dil exchange and the wip out some math to prove their point just screams stupidity. This is a game, if you, with in your right not to pay money into this game, you will grind your butts off with a bar that keeps moving because in the end money talks and your BS walks.
On the bright side I got a lot of stuff I wanted from the exchange in a panic they dropped the price on things in order to buy keys. I got lot of stuff 50% discount. I am sure the sellers are sobbing they saved me a lot of energy credits.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
@sheldoncooper, the comment about 500:1 being a bad deal in neverwinter has context. Here in sto 500:1 is the cap, but nw had another route to convert zen. Their auctionhouse runs on dil (astrals), not ec (gold). When I was still playing there were times that zen commodities (keys, coal wards, etc) were selling for over 600:1 on the auctionhouse, making the 500:1 exchange a really bad deal. In sto that mechanic doesn't apply.
So your comment was right as far as sto, 500:1 is the best deal possible for a seller. But so was his, in neverwinter.
Thought you might appreciate the context even though the conversation has moved on.
@sheldoncooper, the comment about 500:1 being a bad deal in neverwinter has context. Here in sto 500:1 is the cap, but nw had another route to convert zen. Their auctionhouse runs on dil (astrals), not ec (gold). When I was still playing there were times that zen commodities (keys, coal wards, etc) were selling for over 600:1 on the auctionhouse, making the 500:1 exchange a really bad deal. In sto that mechanic doesn't apply.
So your comment was right as far as sto, 500:1 is the best deal possible for a seller. But so was his, in neverwinter.
Thought you might appreciate the context even though the conversation has moved on.
I see that as relevant to the conversation currently, context being a "dil sink", which is one of the things the game currently needs more of right now. People are currently stockpiling Dil because there's not really much of value to spend it on, then converting it to Zen to avoid laying down cash to buy Zen. (not the only reason people are stockpiling, but one of them)
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
@sheldoncooper, the comment about 500:1 being a bad deal in neverwinter has context. Here in sto 500:1 is the cap, but nw had another route to convert zen. Their auctionhouse runs on dil (astrals), not ec (gold). When I was still playing there were times that zen commodities (keys, coal wards, etc) were selling for over 600:1 on the auctionhouse, making the 500:1 exchange a really bad deal. In sto that mechanic doesn't apply.
So your comment was right as far as sto, 500:1 is the best deal possible for a seller. But so was his, in neverwinter.
Thought you might appreciate the context even though the conversation has moved on.
So, wait, you buy stuff from other players with dil? Like, I want the kemocite. Instead of 20 million ec I give some amount of dilithium?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
So, when rates are high, Zen sellers boast, and Dil sellers complain.
And when rates are low Dil sellers boast, and Zen sellers complain.
And in either case, the ones doing the boasting don't seem to think there is anything wrong at all...
I'm really glad I'm not advocating for any specific point-of-view, I've tried to point out the issues with the current high rates as unbiased as I can. Which, in hindsight, probably make me appear to support the Dil seller's point-of-view.
So, I'll just cover my bases and go over the effects of having an extremely low rate.
First off, Zen sellers will complain lol. But more importantly there will be fewer of them offering to sell Zen for dilithium, which results in less Zen income for Cryptic.
Also, the amount of dilithium offers would pile up, resulting in rates approaching the minimum rate of 25:1, which would be woefully insufficient to maintain Cryptic's Zen sales, but would also make grinding dilithium much more profitable than buying it with Zen. This would effectively crash the Dil/Zen economy, anyone remember Neverwinter? Yeah, similar scenario. (Just at the opposite end of the spectrum)
Which means that STO needs** paying players to keep buying Zen to exchange for dilithium, rather than it being more time-efficient to just grind out the dilithium. I'm reluctant to say this, but for the system to work it has to be harder (more time-consuming) to get dilithium through in-game means than buying it with Zen.
This does not, however, mean that Zen sellers should be selling their Zen at exorbitant rates, as dilithium sellers need to feel as they are getting rates that would justify their efforts, just as Zen sellers feel they should get rates that would justify their investment.
Which brings me back to the argument that the demand for dilithium hasn't increased much (and possibly decreased as current 'sinks' finish up), yet the demand for Zen has increased , with each new C-Store ship and lockbox. So, STO needs something that Zen sellers would find worth buying dilithium to use on.
**Perhaps not need, specifically, but it would be beneficial to the general health of the game in terms of financial solvency.
Now, I think I'll leave this thread alone as I believe that many would find this comment 'flame worthy' and I'm really in no mood to get into an argument over something which Cryptic will no doubt look into and make up their own minds on...
I do not recall ever hearing a complaint from a zen seller when the price was in the 130's. Nor when it began to rise to the 180-250 range. Nor in the last 5 months when it has doubled in price. I guess I might not have noticed but I was much more active then.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You all realize that the original post was only three weeks ago and the price is up almost 25% since then?
Low cost zen is gone.
There has never been low-cost Zen, and there has never been high-cost Zen. If it hits the cap of 500, that will be low-cost Zen (yes, low-cost, because it could be undervalued). If it was ever at the cap of 25, that would be high-cost Zen. Anything between the caps is a fair market value based on what sellers of each currency think it's worth.
I have no more dreams of converting my dil to Zen, but I realize how easy it is to get dil now, and how little there is to spend it on, so it's perfectly logical that I'd need a ton of it to buy a currency that's based on cash.
You all realize that the original post was only three weeks ago and the price is up almost 25% since then?
Low cost zen is gone.
There has never been low-cost Zen, and there has never been high-cost Zen. If it hits the cap of 500, that will be low-cost Zen (yes, low-cost, because it could be undervalued). If it was ever at the cap of 25, that would be high-cost Zen. Anything between the caps is a fair market value based on what sellers of each currency think it's worth.
I have no more dreams of converting my dil to Zen, but I realize how easy it is to get dil now, and how little there is to spend it on, so it's perfectly logical that I'd need a ton of it to buy a currency that's based on cash.
"Low-cost value" to whom, I wonder?
I'd really love to hear your explanation of "value" here... if anything, I'd see the "value" of Zen being over-inflated by the fact you can simply obtain more Dilithium in exchange for your Zen if you're selling it, rather than the opposite?
OTOH, if the market was 130:1 then you'd obtain less Dil for selling Zen, which would mean the Zen is undervalued, no?
Perhaps it's just me who's confused by your statement.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I do not recall ever hearing a complaint from a zen seller when the price was in the 130's. Nor when it began to rise to the 180-250 range. Nor in the last 5 months when it has doubled in price. I guess I might not have noticed but I was much more active then.
That's because Zen sellers have never had a reason to complain in the past- until the prices started rubber-banding. Once they realized they couldn't obtain MORE dil for their Zen did they complain- but not beforehand.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
that is the game for me! Why can't we have this in STO? Make it so!
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You all realize that the original post was only three weeks ago and the price is up almost 25% since then?
Low cost zen is gone.
There has never been low-cost Zen, and there has never been high-cost Zen. If it hits the cap of 500, that will be low-cost Zen (yes, low-cost, because it could be undervalued). If it was ever at the cap of 25, that would be high-cost Zen. Anything between the caps is a fair market value based on what sellers of each currency think it's worth.
I have no more dreams of converting my dil to Zen, but I realize how easy it is to get dil now, and how little there is to spend it on, so it's perfectly logical that I'd need a ton of it to buy a currency that's based on cash.
"Low-cost value" to whom, I wonder?
I'd really love to hear your explanation of "value" here... if anything, I'd see the "value" of Zen being over-inflated by the fact you can simply obtain more Dilithium in exchange for your Zen if you're selling it, rather than the opposite?
OTOH, if the market was 130:1 then you'd obtain less Dil for selling Zen, which would mean the Zen is undervalued, no?
Perhaps it's just me who's confused by your statement.
Just because you need a wheelbarrow full of rubles to buy a sandwich doesn't mean that the sandwich is now "high cost." It means rubles experienced huge inflation due to supply increases with no corresponding demand increases.
Any market value is the right cost, not high-cost or low-cost. If it hits 500 and it could've sold at 1000 without a cap, that's some low-cost Zen right there. You'd be getting it for 50% off - what a deal!
Zen for 490 dil isn't expensive. Rubles are just worthless.
Honestly, I'd be telling Zen sellers to suck it up if the rate had a fallout that wasnt advantageous to them and the complained, and wanted Cryptic snd others to take action, call other people names, etc.
The market rate is what it is, if you find it advantageous, buy/sell, if not, dont.
Comments
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If they could've gotten, say, 600 for it, then yeah. Hitting the cap means that's it's basically on clearance for 100% of the time. The further away the hypothetical uncapped price would've been from the cap, the worse off a Zen seller is. That's why Neverwinter doesn't even have any Zen available for its dil equivalent: sellers don't want to sell it at such a low price.
And why are you so upset? It's not like dil is hard to acquire. I don't even play the actual game (missions, red alerts, etc.) except for "grind this mission for a limited-time reward" events, and I hit the daily refine cap on seven characters. That plentiful supply is part of why the exchange is so high. The other reason is that Zen unlocks the fancy new ships/etc. while dil does not (high demand for Zen, low demand for dil).
When I played the game seriously the exchange was 120-130 for a very long time, so to me this is the desired rate. However, I realize that Cryptic (not the market) has changed things and this rate is no longer fair. The vast majority opinion I believe would say 250-300 is fair now. Cryptic will adjust things to make it what they believe is most efficient for their pocketbook. I don't believe anything they can do will bring it below 400 again unless they have the cojones to nerf contraband. But I feel confident they will keep it below 500 - even if this means posting zen themselves at 490.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If there is a problem, it's that the current system favours long-term players with multiple alts and large collections of ships, who can exploit admiralty to the maximum. On the other hand you could argue that players who've spent years getting to that position have earned the right.
I agree, it's absurdly high. But... what are you gonna buy with dil? The last thing I bought was every single ship from the shipyard for one of my alts so he could do admiralty more easily. Think back on new ships, costumes, and other cool/fun stuff. Did it cost dil? No. It cost Zen, or keys (i.e. Zen), or logging in every day (metrics). Dil doesn't get content, it gets "sinks," in the form of fleets and upgrading. There is nothing awesome to buy with dil.
Of course, this makes perfect sense. Items for dil only make Cryptic money if the buyer got the dil by selling Zen, while items for Zen are guaranteed to generate revenue on every sale. That would be the most obvious way of calming the dil exchange: actually sell cool new things for dil rather than exclusively for Zen/metrics.
I used to think that keeping a playerbase healthy and happy was a good defense against player-unfriendly decisions, but nearly every game nowadays has proven that hilariously wrong. The games that shaft their players the hardest are making the biggest profits. Here's hoping that Cryptic/PWE can manage to avoid the worst of that temptation.
I agree with all of this. I was pointing out yesterday that the carrot is the way to go as players will simply avoid the stick (sink). We've seen many suggestions. The only one that would get me to spend big is housing. Once again Cryptic I tell yee - 10 million refined is yours today for a ski lodge on Andoria. We'll see what they do. My guess is just the fleet holding they were planning on doing anyway, maybe bumped up to September. It wont move the exchange 10 points.
Removing contraband from the game might move it 50.
STO has always been VERY generous. Timelines, for example, does not give one tiny pebble of dilithium and have said basically it's not going to happen. If you have charted the exchange rate you will see that February to today has been the real problem - 250 to 500 in 5 months. I honestly believe they want to keep it reasonable for grinders. I think they value grinders and are worried about losing them now.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yeah, I think that's the point I was trying to make.. Except from the opposite perspective. Less demand for dilithium = less people willing to sell Zen for Dilithium, so the supply on the exchange decreases, contributing to the increaseed rates.
You are right, though, right now the demand for Zen is so high that dil grinders are scooping up as much Zen as they can get, driving the rates up.
Apologies if I wasn't being very clear, I should really get some sleep one of these days...
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
300 was actually reasonable. And stop whining that we are taking your money. You're the ONE that chose to pay Cryptic $50 for zen. Not us. Get over yourself please.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Makes perfect sense .
I usually don't care about lockboxes but even I want all 4 ships...
You can kiss goodbye sub-500 zen for at least a year...
I'd say the economy was already destroyed when the Infinity Lockbox was introduced. The Kelvin Lockbox though will likely keep the exchange at 500 if we're not yet there.
And a lot of other people (like me) would say the opposite.
The Infinity Lock Box greatly improved the economy.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
So your comment was right as far as sto, 500:1 is the best deal possible for a seller. But so was his, in neverwinter.
Thought you might appreciate the context even though the conversation has moved on.
I see that as relevant to the conversation currently, context being a "dil sink", which is one of the things the game currently needs more of right now. People are currently stockpiling Dil because there's not really much of value to spend it on, then converting it to Zen to avoid laying down cash to buy Zen. (not the only reason people are stockpiling, but one of them)
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Low cost zen is gone.
So, wait, you buy stuff from other players with dil? Like, I want the kemocite. Instead of 20 million ec I give some amount of dilithium?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
And when rates are low Dil sellers boast, and Zen sellers complain.
And in either case, the ones doing the boasting don't seem to think there is anything wrong at all...
I'm really glad I'm not advocating for any specific point-of-view, I've tried to point out the issues with the current high rates as unbiased as I can. Which, in hindsight, probably make me appear to support the Dil seller's point-of-view.
So, I'll just cover my bases and go over the effects of having an extremely low rate.
First off, Zen sellers will complain lol. But more importantly there will be fewer of them offering to sell Zen for dilithium, which results in less Zen income for Cryptic.
Also, the amount of dilithium offers would pile up, resulting in rates approaching the minimum rate of 25:1, which would be woefully insufficient to maintain Cryptic's Zen sales, but would also make grinding dilithium much more profitable than buying it with Zen. This would effectively crash the Dil/Zen economy, anyone remember Neverwinter? Yeah, similar scenario. (Just at the opposite end of the spectrum)
Which means that STO needs** paying players to keep buying Zen to exchange for dilithium, rather than it being more time-efficient to just grind out the dilithium. I'm reluctant to say this, but for the system to work it has to be harder (more time-consuming) to get dilithium through in-game means than buying it with Zen.
This does not, however, mean that Zen sellers should be selling their Zen at exorbitant rates, as dilithium sellers need to feel as they are getting rates that would justify their efforts, just as Zen sellers feel they should get rates that would justify their investment.
Which brings me back to the argument that the demand for dilithium hasn't increased much (and possibly decreased as current 'sinks' finish up), yet the demand for Zen has increased , with each new C-Store ship and lockbox. So, STO needs something that Zen sellers would find worth buying dilithium to use on.
**Perhaps not need, specifically, but it would be beneficial to the general health of the game in terms of financial solvency.
Now, I think I'll leave this thread alone as I believe that many would find this comment 'flame worthy' and I'm really in no mood to get into an argument over something which Cryptic will no doubt look into and make up their own minds on...
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
There has never been low-cost Zen, and there has never been high-cost Zen. If it hits the cap of 500, that will be low-cost Zen (yes, low-cost, because it could be undervalued). If it was ever at the cap of 25, that would be high-cost Zen. Anything between the caps is a fair market value based on what sellers of each currency think it's worth.
I have no more dreams of converting my dil to Zen, but I realize how easy it is to get dil now, and how little there is to spend it on, so it's perfectly logical that I'd need a ton of it to buy a currency that's based on cash.
"Low-cost value" to whom, I wonder?
I'd really love to hear your explanation of "value" here... if anything, I'd see the "value" of Zen being over-inflated by the fact you can simply obtain more Dilithium in exchange for your Zen if you're selling it, rather than the opposite?
OTOH, if the market was 130:1 then you'd obtain less Dil for selling Zen, which would mean the Zen is undervalued, no?
Perhaps it's just me who's confused by your statement.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
That's because Zen sellers have never had a reason to complain in the past- until the prices started rubber-banding. Once they realized they couldn't obtain MORE dil for their Zen did they complain- but not beforehand.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
So, wait, you buy stuff from other players with dil? Like, I want the kemocite. Instead of 20 million ec I give some amount of dilithium?
[/quote]
Exactly. This rendered ec (gold) worthless, and had been exploited multiple times. The most famous being caturday
https://blog.nwo-uncensored.com/exploit-history-caturday/
that is the game for me! Why can't we have this in STO? Make it so!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Just because you need a wheelbarrow full of rubles to buy a sandwich doesn't mean that the sandwich is now "high cost." It means rubles experienced huge inflation due to supply increases with no corresponding demand increases.
Any market value is the right cost, not high-cost or low-cost. If it hits 500 and it could've sold at 1000 without a cap, that's some low-cost Zen right there. You'd be getting it for 50% off - what a deal!
Zen for 490 dil isn't expensive. Rubles are just worthless.
All the more reason to remove the market cap.
Honestly, I'd be telling Zen sellers to suck it up if the rate had a fallout that wasnt advantageous to them and the complained, and wanted Cryptic snd others to take action, call other people names, etc.
The market rate is what it is, if you find it advantageous, buy/sell, if not, dont.
Basically, yes - although personally I would say to just increase it by a huge amount, to 5k or so. Removing a cap entirely can be... problematic.