Which Enterprise is stronger?

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  • unotetsu
    unotetsu Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    I would say firepower-wise the JJ Kelvin Enterprise is on par with Prime Universe's Ambassador or Galaxy Class....

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  • ssbn655
    ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    The one that can withstand a shot from a Planet Killer and a plasma ball from V'Ger. The other that tends to think "shields" and "hull" are synonyms? Not so much.

    ^ this! 'nuff said plus it had the one true Kirk in command!
  • ssbn655
    ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    They specifically call it the Kelvin timeline because the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin is the central point of divergence. I dunno why you think it makes it sound like it's not in both, as that is in fact the opposite case.


    "central point of divergence" I don't think so. Way too many things are different in that universe to just be caused by 1 ship coming over from 'the future'; more like a different reality.

    That is the actual, literal explanation. Cold hard facts.
    Up until the Narada's attack on the Kelvin, both universes were precisely the same; literally, the same in fact.
    That's why Scotty mentions Archer later on in the first reboot movie, for example.
    The changes didn't take place until the timeline was altered at that moment.
    Since, you know, the Narada didn't just "come over", but destroyed the ship Kirk's dad was on, thus not only altering his personal timeline, but sending ripple effects out from that moment forward by its mere actions and existence.
    No they are not. Take a good look at the models on the desk in Into Darkness. The only ship that is the same is the NX. Plus Capt. Pike was already crippled when Kirk took command of the Grand Lady while he was healthy right up to where he was crippled on the Narada.
  • theussvoyager
    theussvoyager Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    NX 01 Enterprise has never been destroyed so Im going to go with that's the strongest Enterprise.​​
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  • ssbn655
    ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    NX 01 Enterprise has never been destroyed so Im going to go with that's the strongest Enterprise.​​
    Interesting point.
  • jorantomalak
    jorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    Im gonna say the Enterprise - Z

    Because by then it should have an "I win" button lol
  • darakoss
    darakoss Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    [quote="ssbn655;12971155"][quote="sorceror01;12970043"][quote="dracounguis;12970031"][quote="sorceror01;12969902"]They specifically call it the Kelvin timeline because the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin is the central point of divergence. I dunno why you think it makes it sound like it's not in both, as that is in fact the opposite case.[/quote]


    "central point of divergence" I don't think so. Way too many things are different in that universe to just be caused by 1 ship coming over from 'the future'; more like a different reality.
    [/quote]

    That is the actual, [i]literal[/i] explanation. Cold hard facts.
    Up until the Narada's attack on the Kelvin, both universes were precisely the same; literally, the same in fact.
    That's why Scotty mentions Archer later on in the first reboot movie, for example.
    The changes didn't take place until the timeline was altered at [i]that[/i] moment.
    Since, you know, the Narada didn't just "come over", but destroyed the ship Kirk's dad was on, thus not only altering his personal timeline, but sending ripple effects out from that moment forward by its mere actions and existence.[/quote]
    No they are not. Take a good look at the models on the desk in Into Darkness. The only ship that is the same is the NX. Plus Capt. Pike was already crippled when Kirk took command of the Grand Lady while he was healthy right up to where he was crippled on the Narada. [/quote]

    Yes they are. The alternative universe was created the moment the Narada appeared and destroyed the Kelvin. You realize the Kelvin is a prime time line ship don't you?
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  • thekodanarmada#7342
    thekodanarmada#7342 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    This is what happens when no one defines stronger in terms of metrics that are measurable.

    Generally, more advanced and built later are going to be generically 'stronger' in terms of technological development, and the Enterprise-J was the last one seen.
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  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,517 Community Moderator
    This is what happens when no one defines stronger in terms of metrics that are measurable.

    Generally, more advanced and built later are going to be generically 'stronger' in terms of technological development, and the Enterprise-J was the last one seen.

    Pretty sure the OP mentioned that this was between the TOS Enterprise and AR Enterprise.
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  • thekodanarmada#7342
    thekodanarmada#7342 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    This is what happens when no one defines stronger in terms of metrics that are measurable.

    Generally, more advanced and built later are going to be generically 'stronger' in terms of technological development, and the Enterprise-J was the last one seen.

    Pretty sure the OP mentioned that this was between the TOS Enterprise and AR Enterprise.

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  • angrytarg
    angrytarg Member Posts: 10,808 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    darakoss wrote: »
    The refit Constitution is still the Constitution class...

    This is true. People really often confuse what a "class" is.

    If the Enterprise was the first ship to be refitted to the TMP visuals it may very well be the Enterprise-type.

    First you have a classification, i.e. "Class I Heavy Cruiser", "Explorer Type 2", "Explorer", "Light Cruiser" etc.

    Then you have a class which is the baseline cariant. "Constitution class", "Galaxy Class", "Miranda Class" and so on.

    Then you can have variants, which are in-house applied modifications to one of the base classes. "Miranda Class - Soyuz variant"

    If you have a refit you get a type refit. The TMP connie is still the very same ship from TOS, it drove up into space dock and got parts changed but most of the framework is still beneath the new skin. That could b ecalled Enterprise-type.

    You only get a new class when a successor model is built from scratch.

    In STO that would translate to, for example, "Exploration Cruiser" - "Galaxy Class/Monarch Variant/Venture Type Refit" - "Andromeda Class"
    for the regular cruiser it is indeed tricky as the old constitution is not a variant of the Excalibur, but the other option is (don't know what it's called). So it would be "Cruiser" - "Constitution Class (Enterprise Type)/Excalibur Class/Whatsitcalled Variant/Exeter Type Refit"​​
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  • farmallm
    farmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    The Connie and later Connie Refit. Cause they are still trying to figure out the "parking brake" on the JJ Spoof Ship.
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  • reyan01
    reyan01 Member Posts: 15,510 Arc User
    feiqa wrote: »
    Best Enterprise okay serious thought.

    TOS Enterprise, Survives battle after battle with ships and devices that wreck other starships and stations. (Even planets) Gets back to ESD and is refitted from Constitution class to Enterprise class.

    KT Enterprise, Gets curb stomped by mining vessel despite supposed tech upgrades. Gets wrecked by the Vengeance and does not even get to return fire. Third movie wrecked yet again?

    TMP+ Enterprise A, Combat versus cloaked BoP. Multiple torpedo hits through her shields. And lives.

    TMP+ Enterprise B, Tuesday. Enough said.

    TMP+ Enterprise C, So little heard from this whole class it beggars the mind to wonder.

    TNG Enterprise D, How many times did this ship detonate and survive only through temporal shenanigans? Including brushed a Miranda?

    TNG Enterprise E, Shrugs shots from the borg, Multiple Son'a torpedoes hit hull but survives, Rammed a Scimitar and survived.


    Based on records, TOS fight and deflects enemy attacks well and has a long service record. Next closest is the E for sheer indomitable durability. (Seriously makes you think Determinator trop.)

    With regard to the Enterprise-C/Ambassador class:

    Enterprise- engaged FOUR Romulan Warbirds and survived long enough for temporal shenanigans to occur. Okay, was said to have been destroyed subsequent to that, but the odds were hardly fair.

    As for the other class members we saw; well, didn't really see any of them in combat other than the USS Yamaguchi at Wolf-359, which didn't fare any better than any other ship at the battle.
  • samt1996
    samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Strictly technically speaking the KT Connie should be far superior as far as weapons and defensive systems go. The Narada incident seems to have militarized starfleet more quickly then in the main timeline. The events of the second film support this conclusion very well I believe.

    One has to remember that the federation has a virtually limitless pool of resources and technology they can use if they want to it just varies depending on certain factors.
  • samt1996
    samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    The KT films constantly pitting the ship against far superior enemies is not a problem with the ship it's a problem with the writing. Therefore it's an irrelevant argument since this discussion is only comparing technology.
  • gradii
    gradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
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  • hyefather
    hyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    The last one.
  • hyefather
    hyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    ktonof1aq wrote: »
    KT's Enterprise is bigger (if I understand correctly)

    Yeah, I'd go with the one that's ~14 times more massive; all things being equal/unknowable.
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    That makes it about the same size as the Galaxy right? If they use that model ingame I hope Cryptic goes out of thier way to add extra detail. I mean it would be nice to just see hanger doors that opened and closed (how hard can that be right).

  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    hyefather wrote: »
    That makes it about the same size as the Galaxy right? If they use that model ingame I hope Cryptic goes out of thier way to add extra detail.

    They did and they did.
  • dracounguis
    dracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    The "Kelvin Timeline" has to be a reality with it's own past, present and future that could be similiar to what we knew but they cannot be the same for a fact for a number of reasons (planets being at different positions, people aging differently, tech working differently, different aliens showing up...)

    Yeah, too many factors that wouldn't be affected by 1 ship from the 'future' showing up. Like being able to fire a torpedo from outside Klingon space to Qo'nos. Transporting from Earth to Qo'nos. Android crew members way before Data. Massive warp cores (you can climb into to kick back into working order) just to move a ship as big as a Galaxy class. You can't say a Romulan Mining Vessel just happened to have tech data on how to make Soong androids and all that other stuff?

    KT is a similar timeline but it didn't branch off the Prime one.



  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,946 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    The "Kelvin Timeline" has to be a reality with it's own past, present and future that could be similiar to what we knew but they cannot be the same for a fact for a number of reasons (planets being at different positions, people aging differently, tech working differently, different aliens showing up...)

    Yeah, too many factors that wouldn't be affected by 1 ship from the 'future' showing up. Like being able to fire a torpedo from outside Klingon space to Qo'nos. Transporting from Earth to Qo'nos. Android crew members way before Data. Massive warp cores (you can climb into to kick back into working order) just to move a ship as big as a Galaxy class. You can't say a Romulan Mining Vessel just happened to have tech data on how to make Soong androids and all that other stuff?

    KT is a similar timeline but it didn't branch off the Prime one.



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  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,517 Community Moderator
    I don't think 0718 is entirely an android. Also we don't know much about him. The Transporting was explained as using Scotty's Transwarp Beaming formula from the previous movie, so that is plausible. The torpedoes could be the equivelent of ICBMs today...
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  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,946 Arc User
    he's not an android, PERIOD
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    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
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    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
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    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
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  • johnnymo1
    johnnymo1 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    I would have to say the jj ship may be more powerful, but the crew experience of the original series ship would level the field. Original Kirk worked up the ranks, fought in several battles, was a proven strategist with a well trained veteran crew who had years of experience. The JJ crew beamed up while cadet kirk was being yelled at, were all cadets with a few officers, their fleet got rocked in a few seconds, and Sulu was the one doing any and all attacking of nero's ship. He was also the one left to scare Kahn into surrendering. Sulu might be a better combat captain already than jj kirk.
  • trejgon
    trejgon Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    TOS one - it could fire at warp

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  • samt1996
    samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    I mean atleast Sulu knew how to use a parking break unlike certain other people...