If it comes down to TOS & TMP vs the JJ-prise I'd bet on the JJ. It's got an considerable edge in terms of tech thanks to Nero's shenanigans.
As for the "strongest" enterprise, J. 26th century tech is pretty hard to beat when you're "only" at the beginning of the 25th and don't have the godlike power of plot.
I dunno, Shatner Kirk has all the experience behind him and Pine Kirk is pretty much...your typical STO player who just graduated from the academy and just a short while into their first mission they are given command of it. If caught in a battle with each other Shatner Kirk would probably "surrender" and covertly beam over a bunch of explosives disguised as tribbles.
Just out of curiosity, which USS Enterprise is stronger? The TOS Enterprise is older that Kelvin Timeline's (hereafter KT) which is both good and bad. KT's Enterprise is bigger (if I understand correctly) and I love the phasers on it but it does seem to get destroyed or is inoperable in every movie. Let's also not forget that KT Enterprise doesn't even fire once in the second movie.
So...do you also have to take into account experience? Definitely. But that spins into a whole nother thread and some JJ hate which I'd like to avoid so let's stick to thoughts on the two ships.
Question: Which USS Enterprise, TOS or KT, is stronger?
if you brought that conversation to sto in game, neither is stronger especially if they are both t1 connies . if one is t6 over the other or both get the t6 treatment then you will have your answer.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That is the actual, literal explanation. Cold hard facts.
Up until the Narada's attack on the Kelvin, both universes were precisely the same; literally, the same in fact.
That's why Scotty mentions Archer later on in the first reboot movie, for example.
The changes didn't take place until the timeline was altered at that moment.
Since, you know, the Narada didn't just "come over", but destroyed the ship Kirk's dad was on, thus not only altering his personal timeline, but sending ripple effects out from that moment forward by its mere actions and existence.
It is the official explanation, but it doesn't make sense. Canon runs in a massive problem here as nobody gave a squeal about continuity in the new movies (just like VOY and ENT and the TNG movies didn't as well, don't get me wrong).
The "Kelvin Timeline" has to be a reality with it's own past, present and future that could be similiar to what we knew but they cannot be the same for a fact for a number of reasons (planets being at different positions, people aging differently, tech working differently, different aliens showing up...)
@ OP: TOS. She has the power of love on her side.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Personally I'm totally ok with the Kelvin Timeline being distinct in more ways than the Narada incursion. It makes Prime-canon driven expectations more and more meaningless and ultimately that's a good thing.
I'm pretty sure ships with the Power of Love just get a pink cotton candy FX when they explode. But I'm old and curmudgeonly.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That is the actual, literal explanation. Cold hard facts.
Up until the Narada's attack on the Kelvin, both universes were precisely the same; literally, the same in fact.
That's why Scotty mentions Archer later on in the first reboot movie, for example.
The changes didn't take place until the timeline was altered at that moment.
Since, you know, the Narada didn't just "come over", but destroyed the ship Kirk's dad was on, thus not only altering his personal timeline, but sending ripple effects out from that moment forward by its mere actions and existence.
It is the official explanation, but it doesn't make sense. Canon runs in a massive problem here as nobody gave a squeal about continuity in the new movies (just like VOY and ENT and the TNG movies didn't as well, don't get me wrong).
The "Kelvin Timeline" has to be a reality with it's own past, present and future that could be similiar to what we knew but they cannot be the same for a fact for a number of reasons (planets being at different positions, people aging differently, tech working differently, different aliens showing up...)
@ OP: TOS. She has the power of love on her side.
Considering that Star Trek canon is full of time travel, who is to say what a specific "incursion" point can cause.
If the Enterprise never encounters the Guardian of Forever, because he's basically 10 years early in his shipwouldn't that imply that Edith Keeler actually survives? Which leads to no Federation in the 23rd century (at least not one involving humanity). Who will save the whales in this timeline? If Khan is already dealt with, will Kirk still save the whales in a captured Bird of Prey? Who will investigate the crashed plane in the 20th century? Is it still Picard that will travel back to stop the Devidians from killing people in the 19th century?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Considering that Star Trek canon is full of time travel, who is to say what a specific "incursion" point can cause.
If the Enterprise never encounters the Guardian of Forever, because he's basically 10 years early in his shipwouldn't that imply that Edith Keeler actually survives? Which leads to no Federation in the 23rd century (at least not one involving humanity). Who will save the whales in this timeline? If Khan is already dealt with, will Kirk still save the whales in a captured Bird of Prey? Who will investigate the crashed plane in the 20th century? Is it still Picard that will travel back to stop the Devidians from killing people in the 19th century?
Edith died a stupid death without Kirk to "save" her. She simply fell down the stairs.
The whales...wow! I imagine that goes something like George and Gracie got released and one or both were slaughtered leading Dr. Gillian Taylor to crusade on behalf of the whales. Maybe this leads to some surviving? With their social activist still in their timeline it might be possible.
But wait...nah. Turns out that Gillian bit it thanks to an unfortunate encounter with a Devidian so my entire speculation is just toilet water.
It's an interesting question - the TOS Enterprise's phasers took a good chunk out of whatever they hit unless it was explicitly invincible, but KT has the TMP-era and beyond better arc-coverage, which could make a tactical difference.
The 'bolty' turrets of the KT don't seem to do the individual damage of the TOS banks (and it's hard to tell given they primarily fired on the Narada if they match the firepower of the TMP era's emitters)
The shields and hull on the Enterprise (and other Constitution-class ships) in TOS certainly feel like they were tougher, but there's never been a match against a similar enemy to really get a feel for KT's strength defensively. Given the overwhelming power the Kelvin faced, it's possible the KT was built more for firepower and point-defensive over defensive shielding and hull.
Tech-wise it should be noted the TOS ship was refitted after Pike's five-year mission (in universe, this includes phasers for lasers and the addition of photons, but that's a little shaky canon-wise). This definitely included visual changes to the nacelles and bridge, so at launch the KT ship is almost certainly more advanced. Versus the ship under Kirk's command in TOS, it sort of comes down to which you're a fan of.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
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If the Enterprise never encounters the Guardian of Forever, because he's basically 10 years early in his shipwouldn't that imply that Edith Keeler actually survives?
no, it doesn't, because it was mccoy's TRIBBLE with the timeline in his cordrazine-overdose haze that caused her to survive when she was supposed to die
with the AR enterprise never encountering the guardian, that can't happen, so time continues as it should
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
TOS connie is far superior becuase as we've seen the JJ connie can't hold it together for even one movie.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
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JJ Enterprise for sure.
In my own logic, after Kelvin got destroyed by such a massive ship, ofcourse Starfleet is going to think alot bigger when it comes to the construction of their upcoming starships.
Everything develops around the threats you've seen.
Don't know the specs for JJ Enterprise or the TOS one, but I am pretty sure that beside it's size, the weapons are lot formiable then on the TOS one. I have always seen JJ enterprise as a hybrid of Battleship and Exploration while TOS is mainly just exploration.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
TOS connie is far superior becuase as we've seen the JJ connie can't hold it together for even one movie.
Have to say, the Enterprise being overwhelmed by a superior foe seems to be a running theme in the reboot movies.
Of course - the heroes are always overwhelmed initially and have to show the willingness to sacrifice and to improvise to win.
The Scimitar was more powerful than the Enterprise-E. The Enterprise was totally understaffed when it faced a Bird of Prey. The Enterprise-D shields were compromised. The Enterprise C was overwhelmed by a fleet of Romulan ships. The Enterprise A was fighting a Klingon ship that could fire while cloaked.
It'S something done in the series, too.
Enterprise vs the Planet Killer. Enterprise vs Q. Enterprise vs Borg. Defiant vs enemy fleet. Negative Space Wedgie that makes everything that should save the Enterprise/Voyager/Defiant from danger fail to work.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'd say either the 1701-D or E. The E is the newest ship in canon on screen and has rapid fire quantum torpedo launchers, but from what we know how phasers work the long emitter arrays on the D saucer make it's phaser arrays the most powerful ever mounted on a federation ship. There is no tactical information available for the Enterprise J. It is most likely more powerful, but since there isn't any information on it I'll just stick with the other two for now.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
TOS Enterprise, Survives battle after battle with ships and devices that wreck other starships and stations. (Even planets) Gets back to ESD and is refitted from Constitution class to Enterprise class.
KT Enterprise, Gets curb stomped by mining vessel despite supposed tech upgrades. Gets wrecked by the Vengeance and does not even get to return fire. Third movie wrecked yet again?
TMP+ Enterprise A, Combat versus cloaked BoP. Multiple torpedo hits through her shields. And lives.
TMP+ Enterprise B, Tuesday. Enough said.
TMP+ Enterprise C, So little heard from this whole class it beggars the mind to wonder.
TNG Enterprise D, How many times did this ship detonate and survive only through temporal shenanigans? Including brushed a Miranda?
TNG Enterprise E, Shrugs shots from the borg, Multiple Son'a torpedoes hit hull but survives, Rammed a Scimitar and survived.
Based on records, TOS fight and deflects enemy attacks well and has a long service record. Next closest is the E for sheer indomitable durability. (Seriously makes you think Determinator trop.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The one that can withstand a shot from a Planet Killer and a plasma ball from V'Ger. The other that tends to think "shields" and "hull" are synonyms? Not so much.
^ this! 'nuff said plus it had the one true Kirk in command!
Comments
As for the "strongest" enterprise, J. 26th century tech is pretty hard to beat when you're "only" at the beginning of the 25th and don't have the godlike power of plot.
if you brought that conversation to sto in game, neither is stronger especially if they are both t1 connies
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Maybe we're lucky and we get both Connies at Tier 6. Then you can figure it out yourself in PvP.
It is the official explanation, but it doesn't make sense. Canon runs in a massive problem here as nobody gave a squeal about continuity in the new movies (just like VOY and ENT and the TNG movies didn't as well, don't get me wrong).
The "Kelvin Timeline" has to be a reality with it's own past, present and future that could be similiar to what we knew but they cannot be the same for a fact for a number of reasons (planets being at different positions, people aging differently, tech working differently, different aliens showing up...)
@ OP: TOS. She has the power of love on her side.
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I'm pretty sure ships with the Power of Love just get a pink cotton candy FX when they explode. But I'm old and curmudgeonly.
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I stand corrected.
Considering that Star Trek canon is full of time travel, who is to say what a specific "incursion" point can cause.
If the Enterprise never encounters the Guardian of Forever, because he's basically 10 years early in his shipwouldn't that imply that Edith Keeler actually survives? Which leads to no Federation in the 23rd century (at least not one involving humanity). Who will save the whales in this timeline? If Khan is already dealt with, will Kirk still save the whales in a captured Bird of Prey? Who will investigate the crashed plane in the 20th century? Is it still Picard that will travel back to stop the Devidians from killing people in the 19th century?
Edith died a stupid death without Kirk to "save" her. She simply fell down the stairs.
The whales...wow! I imagine that goes something like George and Gracie got released and one or both were slaughtered leading Dr. Gillian Taylor to crusade on behalf of the whales. Maybe this leads to some surviving? With their social activist still in their timeline it might be possible.
But wait...nah. Turns out that Gillian bit it thanks to an unfortunate encounter with a Devidian so my entire speculation is just toilet water.
The 'bolty' turrets of the KT don't seem to do the individual damage of the TOS banks (and it's hard to tell given they primarily fired on the Narada if they match the firepower of the TMP era's emitters)
The shields and hull on the Enterprise (and other Constitution-class ships) in TOS certainly feel like they were tougher, but there's never been a match against a similar enemy to really get a feel for KT's strength defensively. Given the overwhelming power the Kelvin faced, it's possible the KT was built more for firepower and point-defensive over defensive shielding and hull.
Tech-wise it should be noted the TOS ship was refitted after Pike's five-year mission (in universe, this includes phasers for lasers and the addition of photons, but that's a little shaky canon-wise). This definitely included visual changes to the nacelles and bridge, so at launch the KT ship is almost certainly more advanced. Versus the ship under Kirk's command in TOS, it sort of comes down to which you're a fan of.
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
no, it doesn't, because it was mccoy's TRIBBLE with the timeline in his cordrazine-overdose haze that caused her to survive when she was supposed to die
with the AR enterprise never encountering the guardian, that can't happen, so time continues as it should
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
In my own logic, after Kelvin got destroyed by such a massive ship, ofcourse Starfleet is going to think alot bigger when it comes to the construction of their upcoming starships.
Everything develops around the threats you've seen.
Don't know the specs for JJ Enterprise or the TOS one, but I am pretty sure that beside it's size, the weapons are lot formiable then on the TOS one. I have always seen JJ enterprise as a hybrid of Battleship and Exploration while TOS is mainly just exploration.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The Scimitar was more powerful than the Enterprise-E. The Enterprise was totally understaffed when it faced a Bird of Prey. The Enterprise-D shields were compromised. The Enterprise C was overwhelmed by a fleet of Romulan ships. The Enterprise A was fighting a Klingon ship that could fire while cloaked.
It'S something done in the series, too.
Enterprise vs the Planet Killer. Enterprise vs Q. Enterprise vs Borg. Defiant vs enemy fleet. Negative Space Wedgie that makes everything that should save the Enterprise/Voyager/Defiant from danger fail to work.
Notwithstanding, some will say that there are some Players (that do YouTube videos) can beat the former 'No Win Scenario' Elite single-handedly in a T1 ship, so they can take out the KTTrek©® T6 with their T1 Connie*. Yeah, ok.
*Some exaggerations may apply.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
TOS Enterprise, Survives battle after battle with ships and devices that wreck other starships and stations. (Even planets) Gets back to ESD and is refitted from Constitution class to Enterprise class.
KT Enterprise, Gets curb stomped by mining vessel despite supposed tech upgrades. Gets wrecked by the Vengeance and does not even get to return fire. Third movie wrecked yet again?
TMP+ Enterprise A, Combat versus cloaked BoP. Multiple torpedo hits through her shields. And lives.
TMP+ Enterprise B, Tuesday. Enough said.
TMP+ Enterprise C, So little heard from this whole class it beggars the mind to wonder.
TNG Enterprise D, How many times did this ship detonate and survive only through temporal shenanigans? Including brushed a Miranda?
TNG Enterprise E, Shrugs shots from the borg, Multiple Son'a torpedoes hit hull but survives, Rammed a Scimitar and survived.
Based on records, TOS fight and deflects enemy attacks well and has a long service record. Next closest is the E for sheer indomitable durability. (Seriously makes you think Determinator trop.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
^ this! 'nuff said plus it had the one true Kirk in command!