They specifically call it the Kelvin timeline because the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin is the central point of divergence. I dunno why you think it makes it sound like it's not in both, as that is in fact the opposite case.
"central point of divergence" I don't think so. Way too many things are different in that universe to just be caused by 1 ship coming over from 'the future'; more like a different reality.
That is the actual, literal explanation. Cold hard facts.
Up until the Narada's attack on the Kelvin, both universes were precisely the same; literally, the same in fact.
That's why Scotty mentions Archer later on in the first reboot movie, for example.
The changes didn't take place until the timeline was altered at that moment.
Since, you know, the Narada didn't just "come over", but destroyed the ship Kirk's dad was on, thus not only altering his personal timeline, but sending ripple effects out from that moment forward by its mere actions and existence.
No they are not. Take a good look at the models on the desk in Into Darkness. The only ship that is the same is the NX. Plus Capt. Pike was already crippled when Kirk took command of the Grand Lady while he was healthy right up to where he was crippled on the Narada.
[quote="ssbn655;12971155"][quote="sorceror01;12970043"][quote="dracounguis;12970031"][quote="sorceror01;12969902"]They specifically call it the Kelvin timeline because the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin is the central point of divergence. I dunno why you think it makes it sound like it's not in both, as that is in fact the opposite case.[/quote]
"central point of divergence" I don't think so. Way too many things are different in that universe to just be caused by 1 ship coming over from 'the future'; more like a different reality. [/quote]
That is the actual, [i]literal[/i] explanation. Cold hard facts. Up until the Narada's attack on the Kelvin, both universes were precisely the same; literally, the same in fact. That's why Scotty mentions Archer later on in the first reboot movie, for example. The changes didn't take place until the timeline was altered at [i]that[/i] moment. Since, you know, the Narada didn't just "come over", but destroyed the ship Kirk's dad was on, thus not only altering his personal timeline, but sending ripple effects out from that moment forward by its mere actions and existence.[/quote] No they are not. Take a good look at the models on the desk in Into Darkness. The only ship that is the same is the NX. Plus Capt. Pike was already crippled when Kirk took command of the Grand Lady while he was healthy right up to where he was crippled on the Narada. [/quote]
Yes they are. The alternative universe was created the moment the Narada appeared and destroyed the Kelvin. You realize the Kelvin is a prime time line ship don't you?
This is what happens when no one defines stronger in terms of metrics that are measurable.
Generally, more advanced and built later are going to be generically 'stronger' in terms of technological development, and the Enterprise-J was the last one seen.
This is what happens when no one defines stronger in terms of metrics that are measurable.
Generally, more advanced and built later are going to be generically 'stronger' in terms of technological development, and the Enterprise-J was the last one seen.
Pretty sure the OP mentioned that this was between the TOS Enterprise and AR Enterprise.
This is what happens when no one defines stronger in terms of metrics that are measurable.
Generally, more advanced and built later are going to be generically 'stronger' in terms of technological development, and the Enterprise-J was the last one seen.
Pretty sure the OP mentioned that this was between the TOS Enterprise and AR Enterprise.
The refit Constitution is still the Constitution class...
This is true. People really often confuse what a "class" is.
If the Enterprise was the first ship to be refitted to the TMP visuals it may very well be the Enterprise-type.
First you have a classification, i.e. "Class I Heavy Cruiser", "Explorer Type 2", "Explorer", "Light Cruiser" etc.
Then you have a class which is the baseline cariant. "Constitution class", "Galaxy Class", "Miranda Class" and so on.
Then you can have variants, which are in-house applied modifications to one of the base classes. "Miranda Class - Soyuz variant"
If you have a refit you get a type refit. The TMP connie is still the very same ship from TOS, it drove up into space dock and got parts changed but most of the framework is still beneath the new skin. That could b ecalled Enterprise-type.
You only get a new class when a successor model is built from scratch.
In STO that would translate to, for example, "Exploration Cruiser" - "Galaxy Class/Monarch Variant/Venture Type Refit" - "Andromeda Class"
for the regular cruiser it is indeed tricky as the old constitution is not a variant of the Excalibur, but the other option is (don't know what it's called). So it would be "Cruiser" - "Constitution Class (Enterprise Type)/Excalibur Class/Whatsitcalled Variant/Exeter Type Refit"
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Strictly technically speaking the KT Connie should be far superior as far as weapons and defensive systems go. The Narada incident seems to have militarized starfleet more quickly then in the main timeline. The events of the second film support this conclusion very well I believe.
One has to remember that the federation has a virtually limitless pool of resources and technology they can use if they want to it just varies depending on certain factors.
The KT films constantly pitting the ship against far superior enemies is not a problem with the ship it's a problem with the writing. Therefore it's an irrelevant argument since this discussion is only comparing technology.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
KT's Enterprise is bigger (if I understand correctly)
Yeah, I'd go with the one that's ~14 times more massive; all things being equal/unknowable.
That makes it about the same size as the Galaxy right? If they use that model ingame I hope Cryptic goes out of thier way to add extra detail. I mean it would be nice to just see hanger doors that opened and closed (how hard can that be right).
The "Kelvin Timeline" has to be a reality with it's own past, present and future that could be similiar to what we knew but they cannot be the same for a fact for a number of reasons (planets being at different positions, people aging differently, tech working differently, different aliens showing up...)
Yeah, too many factors that wouldn't be affected by 1 ship from the 'future' showing up. Like being able to fire a torpedo from outside Klingon space to Qo'nos. Transporting from Earth to Qo'nos. Android crew members way before Data. Massive warp cores (you can climb into to kick back into working order) just to move a ship as big as a Galaxy class. You can't say a Romulan Mining Vessel just happened to have tech data on how to make Soong androids and all that other stuff?
KT is a similar timeline but it didn't branch off the Prime one.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
The "Kelvin Timeline" has to be a reality with it's own past, present and future that could be similiar to what we knew but they cannot be the same for a fact for a number of reasons (planets being at different positions, people aging differently, tech working differently, different aliens showing up...)
Yeah, too many factors that wouldn't be affected by 1 ship from the 'future' showing up. Like being able to fire a torpedo from outside Klingon space to Qo'nos. Transporting from Earth to Qo'nos. Android crew members way before Data. Massive warp cores (you can climb into to kick back into working order) just to move a ship as big as a Galaxy class. You can't say a Romulan Mining Vessel just happened to have tech data on how to make Soong androids and all that other stuff?
KT is a similar timeline but it didn't branch off the Prime one.
0718 isn't an android, he's flesh-and-blood with cybernetic enhancements
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,559Community Moderator
I don't think 0718 is entirely an android. Also we don't know much about him. The Transporting was explained as using Scotty's Transwarp Beaming formula from the previous movie, so that is plausible. The torpedoes could be the equivelent of ICBMs today...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I would have to say the jj ship may be more powerful, but the crew experience of the original series ship would level the field. Original Kirk worked up the ranks, fought in several battles, was a proven strategist with a well trained veteran crew who had years of experience. The JJ crew beamed up while cadet kirk was being yelled at, were all cadets with a few officers, their fleet got rocked in a few seconds, and Sulu was the one doing any and all attacking of nero's ship. He was also the one left to scare Kahn into surrendering. Sulu might be a better combat captain already than jj kirk.
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Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Because by then it should have an "I win" button lol
"central point of divergence" I don't think so. Way too many things are different in that universe to just be caused by 1 ship coming over from 'the future'; more like a different reality.
[/quote]
That is the actual, [i]literal[/i] explanation. Cold hard facts.
Up until the Narada's attack on the Kelvin, both universes were precisely the same; literally, the same in fact.
That's why Scotty mentions Archer later on in the first reboot movie, for example.
The changes didn't take place until the timeline was altered at [i]that[/i] moment.
Since, you know, the Narada didn't just "come over", but destroyed the ship Kirk's dad was on, thus not only altering his personal timeline, but sending ripple effects out from that moment forward by its mere actions and existence.[/quote]
No they are not. Take a good look at the models on the desk in Into Darkness. The only ship that is the same is the NX. Plus Capt. Pike was already crippled when Kirk took command of the Grand Lady while he was healthy right up to where he was crippled on the Narada. [/quote]
Yes they are. The alternative universe was created the moment the Narada appeared and destroyed the Kelvin. You realize the Kelvin is a prime time line ship don't you?
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Generally, more advanced and built later are going to be generically 'stronger' in terms of technological development, and the Enterprise-J was the last one seen.
Pretty sure the OP mentioned that this was between the TOS Enterprise and AR Enterprise.
Rules are for other people.
This is true. People really often confuse what a "class" is.
If the Enterprise was the first ship to be refitted to the TMP visuals it may very well be the Enterprise-type.
First you have a classification, i.e. "Class I Heavy Cruiser", "Explorer Type 2", "Explorer", "Light Cruiser" etc.
Then you have a class which is the baseline cariant. "Constitution class", "Galaxy Class", "Miranda Class" and so on.
Then you can have variants, which are in-house applied modifications to one of the base classes. "Miranda Class - Soyuz variant"
If you have a refit you get a type refit. The TMP connie is still the very same ship from TOS, it drove up into space dock and got parts changed but most of the framework is still beneath the new skin. That could b ecalled Enterprise-type.
You only get a new class when a successor model is built from scratch.
In STO that would translate to, for example, "Exploration Cruiser" - "Galaxy Class/Monarch Variant/Venture Type Refit" - "Andromeda Class"
for the regular cruiser it is indeed tricky as the old constitution is not a variant of the Excalibur, but the other option is (don't know what it's called). So it would be "Cruiser" - "Constitution Class (Enterprise Type)/Excalibur Class/Whatsitcalled Variant/Exeter Type Refit"
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Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
One has to remember that the federation has a virtually limitless pool of resources and technology they can use if they want to it just varies depending on certain factors.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
That makes it about the same size as the Galaxy right? If they use that model ingame I hope Cryptic goes out of thier way to add extra detail. I mean it would be nice to just see hanger doors that opened and closed (how hard can that be right).
They did and they did.
Yeah, too many factors that wouldn't be affected by 1 ship from the 'future' showing up. Like being able to fire a torpedo from outside Klingon space to Qo'nos. Transporting from Earth to Qo'nos. Android crew members way before Data. Massive warp cores (you can climb into to kick back into working order) just to move a ship as big as a Galaxy class. You can't say a Romulan Mining Vessel just happened to have tech data on how to make Soong androids and all that other stuff?
KT is a similar timeline but it didn't branch off the Prime one.
0718 isn't an android, he's flesh-and-blood with cybernetic enhancements
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"