if you recall, when the attack on the Temporal Accords signing ceremony happened what's his face from Pastak said it was supposed to be uneventful.
I think, given the state of the Na'kul star currently and the many aberrations which have developed in the time-travel storyline, not the least of which was the removal of the Borg Transwarp Gate on Romulus, that by the end of the Temporal arc we'll have done very much as the OP suggested, and either give the Na'kul back their star or prevent its destruction in the first place.
Basically it all comes down to the infinite paradox theory. Everytime you correct an error in.the timeline a new one crops up. The reason is simple to fix a paradox you must create a paradox and the loop never ends. Eventually you wind up with a tangled mess in the timeline that can't be fixed anymore and that's when everything goes wrong. As the Captian of the Annorax said "It's like time begins fighting back"
Umm... that wasn't "the captain of the Annorax"(aka Noye).... it was Annorax.
Anyways... I still don't get why people keep saying there are billions of dead Na'kuhl....
Anyways... I still don't get why people keep saying there are billions of dead Na'kuhl....
They probably assume that the death of their star would kill them off quickly. But as far as we know, it "just" stopped its fusion process. That means the planet will basically slowly cool off, and most plant life will probably die off quickly and then animal life. But if the Na'kuhl are sufficiently technologiycally advanced, they might be able to use replicators, life support systems to bridge the time until they can leave their home world with a starship.
But ... realistcally, evacuating the population of a whole planet with billions of inhabitants would definitely be a momentous task. Even with transporter technology. It would probably be quite realistic to assume that a lot of people will simply die from nutrient deficiencies or outright starvation or cold as they wait to get to a better place.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Don't know if it has already been pointed out already; but if one exception was made for the, Na'Kuhl, would not the Romulan's demand an exception of their own?
If Romulus was retroactively saved via temporal intervention, this would pretty mess up the whole line of events that have already taken place since that incident.
If we stop their star from going out, we've basically negated Enterprises Plot. We can't do things that will etcon the official IP storylines. We continue those stories and move forwards, not erase the background of what happened.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Cause then Captain Archer wouldn't have become the guy who killed Alien Hitler.
I thought that was a hilarious moment in the FE. I didn't really watch ENT to know if that's a nod to an episode, but in the FE, this whole mission is building up for us to deal with Space Hitler, then Walker just says, "Oh, hold a minute... Captain Archer just killed him a few hundred years ago, LOLOLOL!"
Did any of you see the old film/movie (from like 20 years ago) called The Time Machine?
Anyway, good film, though nothing like the book...
My point...
The reason he can't save his girlfriend/fiance is that she is the very reason he built the time machine in the first place. If he saved her with it, then he wouldn't have built it. If he didn't build it, then she was never rescued...
I wonder if there's something like this going on in the FE...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
Did any of you see the old film/movie (from like 20 years ago) called The Time Machine?
Anyway, good film, though nothing like the book...
My point...
The reason he can't save his girlfriend/fiance is that she is the very reason he built the time machine in the first place. If he saved her with it, then he wouldn't have built it. If he didn't build it, then she was never rescued...
I wonder if there's something like this going on in the FE...
CM
Whilst that is true the theory put forth in the film could have been negated by the suggestion that nobody can ever really go 'back in time' and cause a grandfather paradox; rather the 'many worlds' theory would suggest that when a person travels 'back in time' they automatically slip into an alternate universe and are thereby unable to affect any retroactive temporal events that they may have attempted to affect.
I think the problem is Somtaawkhar and Semalda226 are both right. This is a massive predestination paradox and there are forces making it happen. The tholians use the same star destroying recipe the dominion planned to do to Bajor. This attracts Kal with his spectral devise intended to put a star's spectrum back to its original. And he implied the method to destroy stars the tholians use is a bit crude. Cue the tholians arriving just to steal that very artifact. Like they knew in advance how to lure it back. Then with all the enemies at their door. They run to snuff the Nak'houl primary? Why? Again they were told to. Kal decides after it is recovered that he needs to hide it in the past instead of going back to his own time with it? Because he knows a third group of aliens is going to hunt for it. Oh and those guys? They watch Picard destroy it and say in almost a satisfied manner that it is exactly as history says he did. As though they were making sure certain steps were still going forward. Kal then gets thrown back to be found by Archer and crew. Where every temporal cold war puppet came down on them like moths to a flame. Then it is the nak'houl that are trying to remove humanity from space travel.
To be stopped by Archer.
This is sounding as coincidental as the seven brothers of a lottery commissioner winning on seven consecutive weeks.
So I am waiting for the real puppet master to be revealed.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Did any of you see the old film/movie (from like 20 years ago) called The Time Machine?
Anyway, good film, though nothing like the book...
My point...
The reason he can't save his girlfriend/fiance is that she is the very reason he built the time machine in the first place. If he saved her with it, then he wouldn't have built it. If he didn't build it, then she was never rescued...
I wonder if there's something like this going on in the FE...
CM
Whilst that is true the theory put forth in the film could have been negated by the suggestion that nobody can ever really go 'back in time' and cause a grandfather paradox; rather the 'many worlds' theory would suggest that when a person travels 'back in time' they automatically slip into an alternate universe and are thereby unable to affect any retroactive temporal events that they may have attempted to affect.
I can see why Janeway hated temporal mechanics
Of course, how much of a consolation would it be to travel in the past and only end up in a parallel timeline, knowing that your "real" girlfriend is still dead? (And wouldn't the alternative timeline's you still wan to stay together with his still alive girlfriend? Do you need to kill and replace him?)
The twist I haven't seen yet with time travel is a "pseudo-time-travel" machine. If you activate it, you just think you traveled back in time and changed the world in some way. There will be even a log of what the alleged original timeline was to be like...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Basically it all comes down to the infinite paradox theory. Everytime you correct an error in.the timeline a new one crops up. The reason is simple to fix a paradox you must create a paradox and the loop never ends. Eventually you wind up with a tangled mess in the timeline that can't be fixed anymore and that's when everything goes wrong. As the Captian of the Annorax said "It's like time begins fighting back"
I beleive the captain of the "Annorax" name was Annorax. Not sure if the ship he was actually in was named after him.
My biggest beef is why the PC and Kal Dano try to restore the Star instead of just hiding the Tox Uthat. They had recovered it, so why couldn't they use it?
Look at how the Lukari star looks when we save it, and how the Na'Khul star looks when we do not save it.
The devices used to destroy the respective stars were different. There is no reason to assume that the same device can fix both. There must be a reason why the Tholians used the Tox Uthat on the Na'Khul star instead of whatever they used on the Lukari star. (and why they use a star-destruction in the first place to attract Kal Dano's attention to get the Tox Uthat.)
It's unfortunately not spelled out in the mission explicitely, but it seems very likely to me that whatever the Tox Uthat does cannot be undone with Kal Dano's device. It's either just too late, or very different.
I believe Kal Dano's device was the Tox Uthat. I am thinking he couldn't use it because the Tox Uthat is a "one-way" device. No reset button.
Anyone remember an old Cartoon Network series called Time Cops? It was about an orphan boy, a muscle bound yet stupid time cop, and his rather effeminate robot side kick. The child, who was the brains of the operations, is a far more efficient time policeman than all of the Temporal Agents in the Trek Universe combined. Why? Because Trek handle time travel poorly. Rather their writers handle time travel poorly. Trek isn't Doctor Who, so which I think handles Time much better. The Temporal Agents only show up in Trek when the budget allowed them to. Which makes the completely arbitrary in all things. They don't follow the few rules they claim to follow and don't do their jobs at all. Given their superior tech and understanding of events, you'd think they would be able to effectively police their area of so called expertise, but alas, no. The Temporal Agents of Trek are perhaps one of the most poorly thought out and used elements in all of Trekdom. I rate the TA right up there with the Ocampa's Elogium or going Warp 10 in how well it is thought out.
Stop doing Time Travel. Oh please stop. Using it to end the Iconian War was sad. Pathetic even. Especially because everyone and their blind dog saw that end coming from 10,000 light years away. Yes, it was so predictable and hammy that people figured out that ending before Man had developed writing.
I do understand you want to tie things in to the Shows as they are the established canon. But do you really want to be pulling from threads from Enterprise? Especially episodes that use the "oh the TRIBBLE weren't evil, they were being led by evil aliens from the future!" idea. Which is a terrible idea in it's own right.
We're headed towards from sort of massive reset button. Trust me, it's coming. If we don't somehow reset things, I will eat all my hats. I have 5 of them and two are those stupid hip hop ones I bought because they had owls and cats printed all over them. I don't want to eat my hats. But I have faith that the writers of STO don't have the imagination or the fortitude to bring real change to the game.
We'll muddle our way to some conflict that will be negated through the PC doing back in time to fix everything bringing the game to it's natural resting state; The Feds and KDF begrudgingly staring at each other over the dinner table while junior (the Roms) sits quietly in between mom and dad while picking at their broccoli. Then someone will try to break into their house shattering the tentative peace they worked very hard on achieving. After all, they've gone to family counselling. But they live in a bad neighborhood so people keep breaking in and they have to unite to beat up whatever idiot thought it was a good idea to break into their house. Once they get done with that, they will throw the body onto the pile in the yard and sit down to dinner once more, only for some other idiot to come crashing in.
Sigh. STO. STO never changes.
Cheers from Antonio Valerio Cortez III, Half-Celestial Archduke of the Free Marches Confederacy.
My biggest beef is why the PC and Kal Dano try to restore the Star instead of just hiding the Tox Uthat. They had recovered it, so why couldn't they use it?
Look at how the Lukari star looks when we save it, and how the Na'Khul star looks when we do not save it.
The devices used to destroy the respective stars were different. There is no reason to assume that the same device can fix both. There must be a reason why the Tholians used the Tox Uthat on the Na'Khul star instead of whatever they used on the Lukari star. (and why they use a star-destruction in the first place to attract Kal Dano's attention to get the Tox Uthat.)
It's unfortunately not spelled out in the mission explicitely, but it seems very likely to me that whatever the Tox Uthat does cannot be undone with Kal Dano's device. It's either just too late, or very different.
I believe Kal Dano's device was the Tox Uthat. I am thinking he couldn't use it because the Tox Uthat is a "one-way" device. No reset button.
Quite possible. it's not clear, though he says the way he uses his Quantum Phase Inhibitor is nt how it's usually used when rescuing the Lukari star. So maybe "Tox Uthat" is the Tholian name for it? It doesn't seem his name for it...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Quite possible. it's not clear, though he says the way he uses his Quantum Phase Inhibitor is nt how it's usually used when rescuing the Lukari star. So maybe "Tox Uthat" is the Tholian name for it? It doesn't seem his name for it...
It's definitely the Tox Uthat as it has the shape of its canon counterpart for when Picard destroyed it. There is even an exchange during the battle for the Lukari star that goes like this:
Tholians: "Give us the Tox Uthat.
Dano: Great, now the Tholians want my Quantum Phase Inhibitor!"
So it's either a Tholian nickname/designation or the Tholian knows it from their time travels, which leads to another time travel mystery: Where does this name really come from? Does it has an origin or is it locked in a stable time loop like the key from Timesplitters Future Perfect?
Maybe it turns out that the Tholians try to destroy the Na'khul because the Na'khul travel back in time and launch a surprise attack on the Tholian homeworld.
Or the Tholians use the Na'khul sun (which seems to behave unexpectedly according to this mission) later to achieve something important.
Or the Tholians use the Na'khul as a reason to ban time travel with the Temporal Accords (maybe before something even worse happens?).
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
My biggest beef is why the PC and Kal Dano try to restore the Star instead of just hiding the Tox Uthat. They had recovered it, so why couldn't they use it?
If Kal Dano had said that there was too much damage to the star to risk using the Tox Uthat, then that would be fine. But otherwise there is a rather big plot hole with regards to this.
This is what makes stormbound an even bigger mess.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
This is what makes stormbound an even bigger mess.
I don't see how its a mess.
The Tox Uthat can bring back stars that are starting to fail, such as the Lukari's, but cant bring back stars that have already failed entirely, like the Na'Khul.
Its pretty basic, but once again, people are trying to make it more complex then it is.
There's some weird stuff with that star too - it's stumbling along better than expected in the new mission - whatever the Tholians did to it was 'weird', it seems.
And they weren't letting the eggheads study it so it remains, and so they have to run.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
simple answer, we go back in time and step on the first tholian to evolve. problem solved
I thought the Tholians were from a different dimension?.
Not exactly. But they seem to not distingusih between our and the Mirror Universe, so they seem to have at least a different way to percieve the universe. (Whether that's due to technology or even their own physical and mental abilities has never been discussed. Neither do we know if there are additional universes they interact with that we'd see as parallel universes...)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
I thought the Tholians were from a different dimension?.
I think, given the state of the Na'kul star currently and the many aberrations which have developed in the time-travel storyline, not the least of which was the removal of the Borg Transwarp Gate on Romulus, that by the end of the Temporal arc we'll have done very much as the OP suggested, and either give the Na'kul back their star or prevent its destruction in the first place.
Anyways... I still don't get why people keep saying there are billions of dead Na'kuhl....
My character Tsin'xing
But ... realistcally, evacuating the population of a whole planet with billions of inhabitants would definitely be a momentous task. Even with transporter technology. It would probably be quite realistic to assume that a lot of people will simply die from nutrient deficiencies or outright starvation or cold as they wait to get to a better place.
First rule of time travel, Always Blame Archer, then blame the Tholians because they are Jerks
This^^^^^^
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
If Romulus was retroactively saved via temporal intervention, this would pretty mess up the whole line of events that have already taken place since that incident.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I thought that was a hilarious moment in the FE. I didn't really watch ENT to know if that's a nod to an episode, but in the FE, this whole mission is building up for us to deal with Space Hitler, then Walker just says, "Oh, hold a minute... Captain Archer just killed him a few hundred years ago, LOLOLOL!"
Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead...
Did any of you see the old film/movie (from like 20 years ago) called The Time Machine?
Anyway, good film, though nothing like the book...
My point...
I wonder if there's something like this going on in the FE...
CM
Whilst that is true the theory put forth in the film could have been negated by the suggestion that nobody can ever really go 'back in time' and cause a grandfather paradox; rather the 'many worlds' theory would suggest that when a person travels 'back in time' they automatically slip into an alternate universe and are thereby unable to affect any retroactive temporal events that they may have attempted to affect.
I can see why Janeway hated temporal mechanics
To be stopped by Archer.
This is sounding as coincidental as the seven brothers of a lottery commissioner winning on seven consecutive weeks.
So I am waiting for the real puppet master to be revealed.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The twist I haven't seen yet with time travel is a "pseudo-time-travel" machine. If you activate it, you just think you traveled back in time and changed the world in some way. There will be even a log of what the alleged original timeline was to be like...
there will be by the time were all done with them
I beleive the captain of the "Annorax" name was Annorax. Not sure if the ship he was actually in was named after him.
I believe Kal Dano's device was the Tox Uthat. I am thinking he couldn't use it because the Tox Uthat is a "one-way" device. No reset button.
Point taken.
Stop doing Time Travel. Oh please stop. Using it to end the Iconian War was sad. Pathetic even. Especially because everyone and their blind dog saw that end coming from 10,000 light years away. Yes, it was so predictable and hammy that people figured out that ending before Man had developed writing.
I do understand you want to tie things in to the Shows as they are the established canon. But do you really want to be pulling from threads from Enterprise? Especially episodes that use the "oh the TRIBBLE weren't evil, they were being led by evil aliens from the future!" idea. Which is a terrible idea in it's own right.
We're headed towards from sort of massive reset button. Trust me, it's coming. If we don't somehow reset things, I will eat all my hats. I have 5 of them and two are those stupid hip hop ones I bought because they had owls and cats printed all over them. I don't want to eat my hats. But I have faith that the writers of STO don't have the imagination or the fortitude to bring real change to the game.
We'll muddle our way to some conflict that will be negated through the PC doing back in time to fix everything bringing the game to it's natural resting state; The Feds and KDF begrudgingly staring at each other over the dinner table while junior (the Roms) sits quietly in between mom and dad while picking at their broccoli. Then someone will try to break into their house shattering the tentative peace they worked very hard on achieving. After all, they've gone to family counselling. But they live in a bad neighborhood so people keep breaking in and they have to unite to beat up whatever idiot thought it was a good idea to break into their house. Once they get done with that, they will throw the body onto the pile in the yard and sit down to dinner once more, only for some other idiot to come crashing in.
Sigh. STO. STO never changes.
Tholians: "Give us the Tox Uthat.
Dano: Great, now the Tholians want my Quantum Phase Inhibitor!"
So it's either a Tholian nickname/designation or the Tholian knows it from their time travels, which leads to another time travel mystery: Where does this name really come from? Does it has an origin or is it locked in a stable time loop like the key from Timesplitters Future Perfect?
Or the Tholians use the Na'khul sun (which seems to behave unexpectedly according to this mission) later to achieve something important.
Or the Tholians use the Na'khul as a reason to ban time travel with the Temporal Accords (maybe before something even worse happens?).
This is what makes stormbound an even bigger mess.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I love this suggestion.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Best solution, but then we would run out of missions in no time...
There's some weird stuff with that star too - it's stumbling along better than expected in the new mission - whatever the Tholians did to it was 'weird', it seems.
And they weren't letting the eggheads study it so it remains, and so they have to run.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Not exactly. But they seem to not distingusih between our and the Mirror Universe, so they seem to have at least a different way to percieve the universe. (Whether that's due to technology or even their own physical and mental abilities has never been discussed. Neither do we know if there are additional universes they interact with that we'd see as parallel universes...)