Well... her being half Romulan would explain her use of... colorful language too.
As for Spock... he omits, he inferres...
No Spock implies, the listener inferres, lol, had to do it. Spock also exaggerates, but in the Enterprise Incident I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything but lying directly to the Romulan Commander, especially when he told her Kirk was not sane.
eh, that wasn't really a lie...i mean, with all the stuff kirk's pulled over the decades, you can't exactly call him sane
same goes for any other captain of an enterprise - you've got to be just a little bit insane to sit in the big chair of the federation's flagship
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Well... her being half Romulan would explain her use of... colorful language too.
As for Spock... he omits, he inferres...
No Spock implies, the listener inferres, lol, had to do it. Spock also exaggerates, but in the Enterprise Incident I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything but lying directly to the Romulan Commander, especially when he told her Kirk was not sane.
eh, that wasn't really a lie...i mean, with all the stuff kirk's pulled over the decades, you can't exactly call him sane
same goes for any other captain of an enterprise - you've got to be just a little bit insane to sit in the big chair of the federation's flagship
The argument (and I saw a good discussion about this once) is that there is, absolutely, no rule against command officers going into the field. General regulation 15 doesn't EXIST.
I actually brought this up once and the counter was made that if you watch Saavik's reaction and Kirk's reaction to Spock, the likeliest interpretation is that she made up, out of thin air, a rule discouraging command staff from going on away missions.
The look she gives Kirk when he says it isn't true is one of recognition and then the look Kirk shoots Spock implies, "Why is your star pupil lying to me?"
I had once interpreted that to mean, "Doesn't she know we don't follow the rules out here?" And I think Kirk does have a larger arc that would support that through the films. (Ie. He's dissatisfied with following the rules. Breaking the rules is how he became a captain so young. He breaks the rules and Spock dies. He breaks the rules to bring back Spock and loses his ship and his son. He breaks the rules to save earth and gets demoted. He breaks the rules to challenge someone claiming to be God. He has to retire because his rule breaking means there can never be peace with the Klingons. He laments to Picard that he allowed himself to get penned in by rules.) If this is Kirk's arc then, yeah, he was lying when he said there was no regulation.
But the counter case to that is that he knows the rules and is the most by-the-book captain out there and that his real arc is that he only broke the rules when he understood them and that the rules he broke were the kind of rules anybody who believed in those rules would break. And that he never violated the spirit of the rules UNTIL he decided to bring back Spock. And that and his increasing inability to understand the rules was what led to his final retirement. So in that case, his story is one of a guy who righteously broke the rules in a lawful way until he stole the Enterprise and that the fallout from that was because he came to value friends and family over the rules. If this is Kirk's arc then he was legit telling the truth about there being no regulation and Saavik was lying because Spock had encouraged her to lie.
How about this OP, if you want to play like a "real admiral", go to your ship's bridge. Go to your ready room. And then only DOff and do admiralty missions. And never leave. Don't do missions, don't do events, don't do queues. Just sit at that desk and do paperwork.
OP: this (QFT).
If you really want to behave like an Admiral, go fly a desk. Leave the rest of us to enjoy the game as best we can and you can go play it your way.
its a game, not real life.
how would you feel about sto if all your character did all day as an "Admiral" was sit at a desk running doff and admiralty missions.
as an admiral you should not even be on a ship that is likely to face combat, the only time you should be aboard ship is to run inspections.
in sto your rank means nothing more then a way to make you feel as though you have progressed in the game.
you are the same person you are when you started playing, if ground (and space for that matter) was good enough for you then it should be good enough for you now.
if you really don't like ground combat you should have gone and found a game that doesn't involve any ground combat long before you ever got to captain let alone admiral because there will always be any equal mix of ground and space combat in sto.
alternatively if you really don't like the missions because they involve ground combat just do nice safe doff and admiralty missions and leave space and ground combat to the real men.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
How about this OP, if you want to play like a "real admiral", go to your ship's bridge. Go to your ready room. And then only DOff and do admiralty missions. And never leave. Don't do missions, don't do events, don't do queues. Just sit at that desk and do paperwork.
OP: this (QFT).
If you really want to behave like an Admiral, go fly a desk. Leave the rest of us to enjoy the game as best we can and you can go play it your way.
kthxbye.
Well that's a senior Admiral. An admrial incharge of a carrier task group or Expeditionary strike force, they tend to do a bit more.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Well that's a senior Admiral. An admrial incharge of a carrier task group or Expeditionary strike force, they tend to do a bit more.
*evil grin* That just means the desk moves.
No, they actually have to get out from behind the desk, order where the group goes, when it attacks, and generally makes sure the squadron is doing what it is supposed to be doing. Can't always do that from behind a desk.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Well that's a senior Admiral. An admrial incharge of a carrier task group or Expeditionary strike force, they tend to do a bit more.
*evil grin* That just means the desk moves.
No, they actually have to get out from behind the desk, order where the group goes, when it attacks,
... from a desk.
and generally makes sure the squadron is doing what it is supposed to be doing. Can't always do that from behind a desk.
Only if your flag captain is incompetent.
You've never been on a flagship of a real navy have you?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
You've never been on a flagship of a real navy have you?
*chuckle* Like the OP, I'm mostly just winding you up. (I wanted to add a *sly grin* to the end of that post so it'd be obvious to you I wasn't serious, but then, you missed the *evil grin* earlier. I can't edit posts for some reason.) We don't really have (or especially need) admirals in Canada unless the Chief of the Defense Staff happens to be from the navy branch. (And not since 1997, apparently.)
In any case, Star Trek's idea of admirals is a bit... weird..., and STO's 'everyone gets to be an admiral' doesn't mix well with 'this mission calls for you to do menial sh...tuff. (Bajor's surface where you 'report' to a Lt., the station prior to New Talax, where you play gopher to some random cook and/or to a lazy-tailed shift foreman.) Player ranks should top out at Captain, and I'd support Cryptic correcting this retroactively, if they're ever of a mind to.
You've never been on a flagship of a real navy have you?
*chuckle* Like the OP, I'm mostly just winding you up. (I wanted to add a *sly grin* to the end of that post so it'd be obvious to you I wasn't serious, but then, you missed the *evil grin* earlier. I can't edit posts for some reason.) We don't really have (or especially need) admirals in Canada unless the Chief of the Defense Staff happens to be from the navy branch. (And not since 1997, apparently.)
In any case, Star Trek's idea of admirals is a bit... weird..., and STO's 'everyone gets to be an admiral' doesn't mix well with 'this mission calls for you to do menial sh...tuff. (Bajor's surface where you 'report' to a Lt., the station prior to New Talax, where you play gopher to some random cook and/or to a lazy-tailed shift foreman.) Player ranks should top out at Captain, and I'd support Cryptic correcting this retroactively, if they're ever of a mind to.
only reason my main is a "Rear Admiral" is because I slightly RP him as in command of a squadron much like Delta flight and Tom Paris. But my main took the promotion so he would be on par with COs like Admiral Tuvok. But has dodged higher promotion like the plague.
Nice to be a squadron CO, get to be out in the thick of things.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I kind of do something similar with my Fed characters that are in my solo fleet. One character is the Admiral in charge of the "special task group" and the others are under his command. But thats about the extent of my RP in this game.
Well just for my own reasoning, it explains why my toon hops from ship to ship to carry out different functions.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
This game isn't a simulation of life in Starfleet. It's a simulator for watching an episode of Star Trek.
This. The game is supposed to let you play episodes of Star Trek, and, if you compare ground combat scenes in most episodes with a ground combat mission in STO, that's exactly what it does. It is a faithful simulation of pretty terrible combat. It was never the important part, anyway - the show is about issues like endangered species, communism, state religions, rule of law, racism, and so on. The best way to really play "Star Trek" in the way Roddenberry would have intended is to stand around on ESD and argue about taxes or abortion or something.
If you thought ST was sci-fi, you've been fooled just as thoroughly as the networks were when Roddenberry fed them the "space cowboys" lie.
This game isn't a simulation of life in Starfleet. It's a simulator for watching an episode of Star Trek.
Nah, not even close. Most episodes of Trek were talk, not shoot. That wouldn't translate well to a video game. I'm happy to log into STO and blow stuff up
This game isn't a simulation of life in Starfleet. It's a simulator for watching an episode of Star Trek.
Nah, not even close. Most episodes of Trek were talk, not shoot. That wouldn't translate well to a video game. I'm happy to log into STO and blow stuff up
I'm sure you just spam F to skip it all, but there is a lot of "talk" in STO's episodes and missions. And you're right: it doesn't translate well to a video game, which is probably why most people skip it (in most games, not just STO). This isn't even limited to video games, either. People don't read.
OP is perfectly entitled to their own opinion of course, however, I do not share it.
Ground missions provide a great contrast to space based gameplay in my view, especially the more 'developed' missions which provide options and which are more diplomatic/puzzle-solving in nature.
Aside from the predominantly combat orientated ground content (I'm not a 'diplomacy purist' or anything), I dislike the following for ground missions:
How seemingly ineffectual our weapons are (not crit), such that we might hit an NPC five times with a phaser until they collapse. Didn't see that on tv! I'd rather have a charging mechanic and a cover system;
No meaningful tricorder gameplay;
Enforced 'killing' of combatants in most missions when it wouldn't hurt the story (if stealth) to 'beam their unconscious bodies into a local transport buffer', ala Star Trek Away Team...
One thing you might consider if you had an alien character as your Captain or Admiral, is to take on a 'crewman' or first officer type costume when on the ground. So, you can both be your Admiral when at ESD and Ensign Ricky when mowing down Klingons.
This game isn't a simulation of life in Starfleet. It's a simulator for watching an episode of Star Trek.
Nah, not even close. Most episodes of Trek were talk, not shoot. That wouldn't translate well to a video game. I'm happy to log into STO and blow stuff up
I'm sure you just spam F to skip it all, but there is a lot of "talk" in STO's episodes and missions. And you're right: it doesn't translate well to a video game, which is probably why most people skip it (in most games, not just STO). This isn't even limited to video games, either. People don't read.
It is POSSIBLE to make a decent game focused on dialogue, but only one company has come close to mastering that fine art, and it AIN'T Cryptic.
I always interpreted Saavik's look to be along the lines of, "I'm not going to call you a liar to your face right here on the bridge, Admiral, but we both know that's not even a good lie."
Anyway, what's all this talk about admirals? The only character I have that has that rank at all is an admiral with Starfleet Intelligence - but he still wears the lesser insignia when he's aboard his ship. All the rest are Level 60 captains.
This game isn't a simulation of life in Starfleet. It's a simulator for watching an episode of Star Trek.
Nah, not even close. Most episodes of Trek were talk, not shoot. That wouldn't translate well to a video game. I'm happy to log into STO and blow stuff up
Yes, Kirk spent a lot of time talking to the Gorn.
This game isn't a simulation of life in Starfleet. It's a simulator for watching an episode of Star Trek.
Nah, not even close. Most episodes of Trek were talk, not shoot. That wouldn't translate well to a video game. I'm happy to log into STO and blow stuff up
I'm sure you just spam F to skip it all, but there is a lot of "talk" in STO's episodes and missions.
Yeah, you missed my point. I was not saying there was no "talk" in STO. I was saying that most of STO's missions have a combat focus. Conversely, most Trek episodes did not. Therefore, STO is not a "simulation for watching an episode of Trek", unless that episode being "watched" were one of the rare combat focused episodes.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I HATE and I mean absolutely LOATHE ground combat. HATE IT. IT SUCKS. It's no fun and I don't want to be bothered with it. I can see having to put up with it as an ensign or even a commander, but after you hit captain, it just shouldn't happen anymore. Starfleet regulations say that the captain of a ship is not to go on away missions if there is any danger, this is absolutely FORBIDDEN for admirals. They should never leave their ship, and indeed that is EXACTLY what I want. I don't want to go traipsing all over some filthy alien planet getting shot at. I want to be on my nice comfy bridge ordering my peons to go do it for me, like it is meant to be.
Can we have an option to NOT go on away missions? I mean seriously, they totally suck. I hate them. I always have. (I've been playing this game since Beta and ground combat has sucked since then.)
That stopped Archer, Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway from going on any dangerous missions? (Well this regulation may not have been in place till after Archer, but still.)
Besides...just because we're admiral in game doesn't mean everyone plays a admiral. Starfleet is hurting for heroes...preventing a hero from doing what a hero does effectively makes them useless. They rushed to promote us to admiral, we're such good officers, it's a waste to make us sit behind a desk on some starbase behind frontlines.
This game isn't a simulation of life in Starfleet. It's a simulator for watching an episode of Star Trek.
Nah, not even close. Most episodes of Trek were talk, not shoot. That wouldn't translate well to a video game. I'm happy to log into STO and blow stuff up
I didn't say it was a 100% effective simulator.
In any case, i arcade and ludological elements of gameplay on the ground are what they are. You lead an away team. You punch, hack, slash, and fire. You do TJ Hooker dirt rolls. It might be better simplified but I don't think it needs enhanced fundamentally or that it's something that needs to be avoidable in favor of space combat.
Rather, if anything, I think ground combat could use more of a "meta-game" beyond shooting to represent episodic stories and the things you're talking about. But that would build on the stuff we've got, not skip it so people can stick to pew-pewing things with ships only.
Comments
As for Spock... he omits, he inferres...
eh, that wasn't really a lie...i mean, with all the stuff kirk's pulled over the decades, you can't exactly call him sane
same goes for any other captain of an enterprise - you've got to be just a little bit insane to sit in the big chair of the federation's flagship
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The argument (and I saw a good discussion about this once) is that there is, absolutely, no rule against command officers going into the field. General regulation 15 doesn't EXIST.
I actually brought this up once and the counter was made that if you watch Saavik's reaction and Kirk's reaction to Spock, the likeliest interpretation is that she made up, out of thin air, a rule discouraging command staff from going on away missions.
The look she gives Kirk when he says it isn't true is one of recognition and then the look Kirk shoots Spock implies, "Why is your star pupil lying to me?"
I had once interpreted that to mean, "Doesn't she know we don't follow the rules out here?" And I think Kirk does have a larger arc that would support that through the films. (Ie. He's dissatisfied with following the rules. Breaking the rules is how he became a captain so young. He breaks the rules and Spock dies. He breaks the rules to bring back Spock and loses his ship and his son. He breaks the rules to save earth and gets demoted. He breaks the rules to challenge someone claiming to be God. He has to retire because his rule breaking means there can never be peace with the Klingons. He laments to Picard that he allowed himself to get penned in by rules.) If this is Kirk's arc then, yeah, he was lying when he said there was no regulation.
But the counter case to that is that he knows the rules and is the most by-the-book captain out there and that his real arc is that he only broke the rules when he understood them and that the rules he broke were the kind of rules anybody who believed in those rules would break. And that he never violated the spirit of the rules UNTIL he decided to bring back Spock. And that and his increasing inability to understand the rules was what led to his final retirement. So in that case, his story is one of a guy who righteously broke the rules in a lawful way until he stole the Enterprise and that the fallout from that was because he came to value friends and family over the rules. If this is Kirk's arc then he was legit telling the truth about there being no regulation and Saavik was lying because Spock had encouraged her to lie.
OP: this (QFT).
If you really want to behave like an Admiral, go fly a desk. Leave the rest of us to enjoy the game as best we can and you can go play it your way.
kthxbye.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
then it seems STO is 3 seasons of Kirk violating starfleet regulations....
how would you feel about sto if all your character did all day as an "Admiral" was sit at a desk running doff and admiralty missions.
as an admiral you should not even be on a ship that is likely to face combat, the only time you should be aboard ship is to run inspections.
in sto your rank means nothing more then a way to make you feel as though you have progressed in the game.
you are the same person you are when you started playing, if ground (and space for that matter) was good enough for you then it should be good enough for you now.
if you really don't like ground combat you should have gone and found a game that doesn't involve any ground combat long before you ever got to captain let alone admiral because there will always be any equal mix of ground and space combat in sto.
alternatively if you really don't like the missions because they involve ground combat just do nice safe doff and admiralty missions and leave space and ground combat to the real men.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Well that's a senior Admiral. An admrial incharge of a carrier task group or Expeditionary strike force, they tend to do a bit more.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
*evil grin* That just means the desk moves.
No, they actually have to get out from behind the desk, order where the group goes, when it attacks, and generally makes sure the squadron is doing what it is supposed to be doing. Can't always do that from behind a desk.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
... from a desk.
Only if your flag captain is incompetent.
You've never been on a flagship of a real navy have you?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
*chuckle* Like the OP, I'm mostly just winding you up. (I wanted to add a *sly grin* to the end of that post so it'd be obvious to you I wasn't serious, but then, you missed the *evil grin* earlier. I can't edit posts for some reason.) We don't really have (or especially need) admirals in Canada unless the Chief of the Defense Staff happens to be from the navy branch. (And not since 1997, apparently.)
In any case, Star Trek's idea of admirals is a bit... weird..., and STO's 'everyone gets to be an admiral' doesn't mix well with 'this mission calls for you to do menial sh...tuff. (Bajor's surface where you 'report' to a Lt., the station prior to New Talax, where you play gopher to some random cook and/or to a lazy-tailed shift foreman.) Player ranks should top out at Captain, and I'd support Cryptic correcting this retroactively, if they're ever of a mind to.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
only reason my main is a "Rear Admiral" is because I slightly RP him as in command of a squadron much like Delta flight and Tom Paris. But my main took the promotion so he would be on par with COs like Admiral Tuvok. But has dodged higher promotion like the plague.
Nice to be a squadron CO, get to be out in the thick of things.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Well just for my own reasoning, it explains why my toon hops from ship to ship to carry out different functions.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
This. The game is supposed to let you play episodes of Star Trek, and, if you compare ground combat scenes in most episodes with a ground combat mission in STO, that's exactly what it does. It is a faithful simulation of pretty terrible combat. It was never the important part, anyway - the show is about issues like endangered species, communism, state religions, rule of law, racism, and so on. The best way to really play "Star Trek" in the way Roddenberry would have intended is to stand around on ESD and argue about taxes or abortion or something.
If you thought ST was sci-fi, you've been fooled just as thoroughly as the networks were when Roddenberry fed them the "space cowboys" lie.
Nah, not even close. Most episodes of Trek were talk, not shoot. That wouldn't translate well to a video game. I'm happy to log into STO and blow stuff up
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm sure you just spam F to skip it all, but there is a lot of "talk" in STO's episodes and missions. And you're right: it doesn't translate well to a video game, which is probably why most people skip it (in most games, not just STO). This isn't even limited to video games, either. People don't read.
Ground missions provide a great contrast to space based gameplay in my view, especially the more 'developed' missions which provide options and which are more diplomatic/puzzle-solving in nature.
Aside from the predominantly combat orientated ground content (I'm not a 'diplomacy purist' or anything), I dislike the following for ground missions:
One thing you might consider if you had an alien character as your Captain or Admiral, is to take on a 'crewman' or first officer type costume when on the ground. So, you can both be your Admiral when at ESD and Ensign Ricky when mowing down Klingons.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
It is POSSIBLE to make a decent game focused on dialogue, but only one company has come close to mastering that fine art, and it AIN'T Cryptic.
Anyway, what's all this talk about admirals? The only character I have that has that rank at all is an admiral with Starfleet Intelligence - but he still wears the lesser insignia when he's aboard his ship. All the rest are Level 60 captains.
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah, you missed my point. I was not saying there was no "talk" in STO. I was saying that most of STO's missions have a combat focus. Conversely, most Trek episodes did not. Therefore, STO is not a "simulation for watching an episode of Trek", unless that episode being "watched" were one of the rare combat focused episodes.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That stopped Archer, Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway from going on any dangerous missions? (Well this regulation may not have been in place till after Archer, but still.)
Besides...just because we're admiral in game doesn't mean everyone plays a admiral. Starfleet is hurting for heroes...preventing a hero from doing what a hero does effectively makes them useless. They rushed to promote us to admiral, we're such good officers, it's a waste to make us sit behind a desk on some starbase behind frontlines.
I didn't say it was a 100% effective simulator.
In any case, i arcade and ludological elements of gameplay on the ground are what they are. You lead an away team. You punch, hack, slash, and fire. You do TJ Hooker dirt rolls. It might be better simplified but I don't think it needs enhanced fundamentally or that it's something that needs to be avoidable in favor of space combat.
Rather, if anything, I think ground combat could use more of a "meta-game" beyond shooting to represent episodic stories and the things you're talking about. But that would build on the stuff we've got, not skip it so people can stick to pew-pewing things with ships only.