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Retiring Glossy Photos of Q

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  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Done!
    Post edited by tarran61 on
    Positive thoughts.
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  • robeasomrobeasom Member Posts: 1,911 Arc User
    STO has been in a sorry state even before
    sov42 wrote: »
    It'd really be nice if a dev would actually respond (and preferably give in to the peer-pressure. ;) ) and at least acknowledge our discontent and cough up a reasonable compromise.

    They didnt respond on the summer event they are not going to do it for the winter event.
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  • alphahydrialphahydri Member Posts: 391 Arc User
    There's really two complaints regarding this change to event currency.

    The first complaint is coming from the people who spent extra time during past events grinding out extra tokens so that they could get the ships for the following year much quicker and easier. Now that the token system is changing, they're upset that they no longer have their shortcut to work with and have to get the new ships the old-fashioned way.

    The second comes from the people who are either newer to STO (like me) or veteran players. We are frustrated with this change not because of the currency change, but because the older ships are being retired. So now, if a player missed an event a previous year due to, ya know, holiday stuff, they can no longer go back and get the ships they missed. Newer players are completely unable to get any of these older ships regardless, which sucks because a) people want these ships, and b) the console set bonus drives people to collect them.

    The people commenting in this thread to give people grief over their annoyance with this change seem to only be focusing on the first complaint, rather than the second one I mentioned which is honestly the bigger issue here. Removing content is never a good idea for any game, and time-gating content like what's happening with these event ships is just restricting content for newer players and discouraging them from actually participating in these events.

    I really hope Cryptic changes their minds about this stuff, but given their lack of response to the similar changes that happened during the Summer Event this year, I'm likely just grasping at straws. I'm cool with making the event currency year-exclusive, but really, do these older ships HAVE to be removed like this? I mean, Cryptic says they want to "maintain the exclusivity and collectability" of these ships, but something's not really collectable anymore once it's been removed entirely. Yes, it's exclusive, but not collectable. And with the console set bonuses being the way they are, making these ships exclusive actually making collecting them pointless anyways. I mean, I can earn this year's Winter Event ship, but without the other 3 previous event ships I only have one console out of the 4. Not cool, Cryptic, not cool....
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    weirdjedi wrote: »
    I keep thinking of other games who have done this sort of thing. They would offer the current year alongside, and sometimes discounted, previous year event item. Then after a few years they would still offer the old item through some sort of game currency. This sort of fits into the lobi store theory.

    I don't think the community cared if people prepared ahead of time. In fact, most of the cosmetic (in this case non-ship) items would still be available after years of a games lifespan. Those new players who really wanted to work for it would spend the extra time gaining the ones from years past.

    But I've learned people get upset when you diminish their expectations. I have never heard about the delta recruit fiasco or how this already happened during the Risa event before today. I was expecting to get one ship on each of my characters. This expectation rose to getting all 4 ships account-wide when I suddenly realized I could claim the Dyson ship, which I only did once, for all my characters. Then I got very upset to hear that I wouldn't even be able to claim even 1 of the old ships, regardless if I prefer one of them over this year's non-yet-revealed ship.

    I'm not a lifetimer, veteran, or gold member. I'm just a guy who wants a T6 ship on their Klingon character. I'm pretty sure I'll still get that this winter event. I just thought things would stay consistent in this game. That's all.

    My complete approval of this post aside, there's one thing I'd like to note:

    What you referred to as the 'Delta Recruit fiasco' was actually Delta Rising, the expansion. The Delta Recruitment event was a nice thing, but Delta Rising turned the game into a tedious slog. (Thankfully, things have gotten better since then.)

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  • aesicaaesica Member Posts: 736 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Not really sure why I came back to this thread. Bored, maybe? Anyway...
    Who are you to try to make that decision for myself and everyone else. The sheer arrogance and outright elitism in that last comment is astounding and it's people like you that are what's wrong with this game. As I've said above, you may not like it but that's no reason to deny everyone else the option to pick up the ships. Even if someone isn't pulling "omg ub3r l33t dps" but are still getting stuff done, and having fun with their breen ships or what have you, then why does it matter to you. What of those people who want the Chel Grett as one example simply because it was featured on screen in the show? What of those people that just want to try a new ship but is a new player? I highly suspect you've not looked past your own nose long enough to think of that. You do not get to make that determination for anyone other than yourself. You need to get off your high horse VERY quickly lest you prove yourself even more of an elitist than you already have.

    Simply because you don't like it or you think it's TRIBBLE is not a legitimate reason to deny that option to someone else.
    I get it, you're upset and you want someone to yell at. Nothing you say will hurt my feelings so go ahead. I don't mind. (This isn't meant to sound snarky, sarcastic, or rude.)

    Seriously though, you do realize that you're yelling ELITIST! at someone who isn't in favor of removing the ships but actually neutral about it? Saying that the ships aren't very good wasn't meant to be elitist at all, or whatever. It was entirely a face value comment. Whether or not Cryptic adds some new way into the game for people to get them or not makes zero difference to me, and in all seriousness, I'm not entirely sure why it does to you. Do you want everything available for you to obtain, at any time? I really don't know of any MMO that doesn't retire items at some point, and eventually, understand that this game is going to shut down and every ship you, I, and anyone else has gathered will be entirely irrelevant.

    Just play the game, have fun. Retired, unobtainable TRIBBLE may be a bummer, but there's still plenty of things in this game to enjoy.
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  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    I just checked, and the character that I NEVER use still has 1000 still sitting in his Bank. Well, that is an easy 5 Specialization Points for him, so goody. Maybe he will get some attention after all.
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  • tinyfistedtinyfisted Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    alphahydri wrote: »
    The first complaint is coming from the people who spent extra time during past events grinding out extra tokens so that they could get the ships for the following year much quicker and easier. Now that the token system is changing, they're upset that they no longer have their shortcut to work with and have to get the new ships the old-fashioned way.

    Thing is, those folks who pre-collected greatly improved the metrics last year, and there's a very valid view that suggests both that they did nothing wrong and don't deserve to be treated as though they did (if only by implication). So I get that it's very easy (and probably right) for folks to feel at least a little offended on this point.

    I also understand Cryptic's interest in retiring the tokens every year. The buy-back store for this year and tokens->marks project was a good move. There's still a reason to do those missions for as long as you want to. (I actually adore the flying and ice racing obstacle courses, so it's never been a hardship, at all, for me to do them on multiple chars.)
    The second comes from the people who are either newer to STO (like me) or veteran players. We are frustrated with this change not because of the currency change, but because the older ships are being retired. So now, if a player missed an event a previous year due to, ya know, holiday stuff, they can no longer go back and get the ships they missed. Newer players are completely unable to get any of these older ships regardless, which sucks because a) people want these ships, and b) the console set bonus drives people to collect them.

    Yeah, this one rankles. Thing is, to collect all the ships I'm missing (first two on both events), I'd wind up _fully doing_ the project on three separate chars, at least, _improving the Metrics this year, just like Cryptic wants_. I'd been planning to do so on Risa, and I would love to do so this event, too.

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  • pwnemesispwnemesis Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Information about the return of Q’s Winter Wonderland is just around the corner! As part of this year's holiday festivities, we will be retiring the “Autographed 8x10 Glossy Photos of Q” and changing how starships will be earned during this event.

    You can learn more about the trade-in system here.

    ~LaughingTrendy

    I just wanted to thank you. As a very casual player I have logged in every year during winter to try to get a few of those photos knowing I wont get enough but also knowing the next year I would be able to get the ship. Now you have completely freed up my winter time so I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to goto Q winter wonderland again,

    Why go when I know I cannot possibly get the prize? This is why I dont do the other 'holiday' events and now I can check the last one off my list.

    Thanks devs.

    and in case my sarcasm was understood. Thanks for ruining the winter event for me and other casual players like me who dont have time to play and earn the ship.
  • pwnemesispwnemesis Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Ooh. One last thing. Since the winter event is right around the corner. How about having someone deal with the support ticket I submitted LAST Winter event, which is still OUTSTANDING and UNADDRESSED?
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    Y'know, I've been on the fence about this the entire time. And honestly, I'm starting to feel that this ship debacle is a no-win situation for everyone, players and Cryptic alike.

    We're seeing what happens when they remove the ships - people get angry, demanding to put everything back. Now, what if they keep the ships? This year would be four ships - Warship, Heavy Raider, Carrier and most-likely Dreadnought (if the Admirality card is right) Next year would be five and perhaps a T6 Warship. The year after that would be six, then seven and possibly going into T7s by that point. Maybe. Who knows. It's too unwieldy. Something's gotta give.

    Now what about putting the ships into the Lobi Store? All three together would be 2500 Lobi, which would certainly anger those who'd want them on the cheap. There might not even be an option to buy them and sell them on the Exchange, like the 4th Anniversary DSDs. Even more, you might not be able to even buy them through your store unlocks if you did get one there. And while the Carrier is still T6, what happens if they bring out a T6 Warship or a T6 Heavy Raider. Congratulations on your 800 Lobi Admirality cards.

    Both these options would lead to the same thing we're seeing here - people coming to the forums to declare that Cryptic is trying to kill their game and they will never buy anything again and all the same tired excuses and retreads repeated for the past six years.
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    We're seeing what happens when they remove the ships - people get angry, demanding to put everything back. Now, what if they keep the ships? This year would be four ships - Warship, Heavy Raider, Carrier and most-likely Dreadnought (if the Admirality card is right) Next year would be five and perhaps a T6 Warship. The year after that would be six, then seven and possibly going into T7s by that point. Maybe. Who knows. It's too unwieldy. Something's gotta give.

    I fail to see the problem.

    People were already hoarding that many pictures to begin with, that's what caused them to be removed (and take the ships with them). Besides, if the ships don't get removed, one can spread the grind across several events instead of getting the hypothesized seven ships all in the same year.

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  • saber1973asaber1973a Member Posts: 1,224 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Darn, and i hoped that we will get at least Non-Faction Sci ship... :'(
  • darthraiderxxxdarthraiderxxx Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    dalolorn wrote: »
    We're seeing what happens when they remove the ships - people get angry, demanding to put everything back. Now, what if they keep the ships? This year would be four ships - Warship, Heavy Raider, Carrier and most-likely Dreadnought (if the Admirality card is right) Next year would be five and perhaps a T6 Warship. The year after that would be six, then seven and possibly going into T7s by that point. Maybe. Who knows. It's too unwieldy. Something's gotta give.

    I fail to see the problem.

    People were already hoarding that many pictures to begin with, that's what caused them to be removed (and take the ships with them). Besides, if the ships don't get removed, one can spread the grind across several events instead of getting the hypothesized seven ships all in the same year.

    It's pretty simple actually. Let's say you are a new player that starts playing right before the winter event, grinds for all the ships in this event and the next events and you will end up with 10+ T5/T6 ships for free at the end of the summer event. That is a lot of ships that can fill pretty much all roles/shipclasses which probably means that new player has zero reason to buy any ships. Now since this game is F2P, ship sales are a very important part to keep the game running. So while event ships are a great way for Cryptic to make us play the game, a very large supply of free high end ships available forever would mean low ship sales. And less ships sales means less developers which means less content for us to play.​​
  • lopequillopequil Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    I was pretty annoyed when I read this announcement. I joined after the 2014 Winter event so could only claim the carrier. But, I thought, if I work hard and earn some extra widgets I might be able to catch up next year.

    No such luck. Now I'll never be able to fly a Chel Grett, have raiders for my carrier or complete the Breen set. I'm afraid that R&D materials I don't need and spec points I can't spend are small comfort indeed.
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    dalolorn wrote: »
    The problem with giving players "one last chance" to get the previous ship(s), is that there would always be someone asking for "one last chance" because [insert excuse here as to why they missed it before]. If an exception were granted for this year, it would be used as the basis of an argument for granting an exception the next year. Players were told during the summer that this was going to happen, so if Cryptic is going to retire them, then just retire them. No "last chance" promotions.

    Now, that's not to say that I support that decision. I don't agree at all with retiring rewards, or one-time only rewards that cannot be reclaimed. I do not see the problem with allowing the winter/summer ship or CC/MI projects to be done indefinitely. Especially when Cryptic runs new player recruitment promotions like Delta Rising. I just don't see how it's advantageous to Cryptic to deny rewards to newer players.

    ^This, right here!

    We, the community should do something until Cryptic does this.

    How about a compromise?

    Cryptic can have it there way and make new economies for the ships and events, and in return, they just allow us to get whatever ship we want. Either the new ship for the event, or, some of the old ships.

    And its not like players wouldn't play anymore. Unless you have at least 5 toons its not like you could do all the ships in one event. AND even if you do run and claim every ship in one event, there would be a new ship next year so you would always come back.

    What do you all think?

    Yes. Yes, yes, YES.

    Except when I suggested that during the summer event, the suggestion fell on deaf ears. I fear it will be the same this time.

    Cryptic is unreceptive to feedback, except as praise. Suggestions don't interest them.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    saber1973a wrote: »
    Darn, and i hoped that we will get at least Non-Faction Sci ship... :'(
    *points at Sarr Theln*
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  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    We're not getting that anymore, though.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    Now what about putting the ships into the Lobi Store?

    Well, if anyone is like me, I'd be elated to have them available on the lobi store and would certainly give me more incentive to buy keys and open lockboxes. That much alone would make all this nonsense less of an issue. But, I don't see Cryptic ever doing anything that logical. It's just not in their nature, being that they don't give a rat's behind about the players.

  • aesicaaesica Member Posts: 736 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    saber1973a wrote: »
    Darn, and i hoped that we will get at least Non-Faction Sci ship... :'(
    *points at Sarr Theln*
    It's not a true sci ship. While it's sci-heavy, but there's no sensor analysis and in the mirror event, it doesn't close portals any faster than any other non-sci ship.

    Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if, this year, we do get a sci ship. So far, we've gotten 3 escorts (chell gret, risan corvette, nandi warship), a cruiser (luxury cruiser), a raider (plesh brek), and a carrier (sarr theln). Some sort of science ship should definitely be on the horizon.
    sov42 wrote: »
    Now what about putting the ships into the Lobi Store?

    Well, if anyone is like me, I'd be elated to have them available on the lobi store and would certainly give me more incentive to buy keys and open lockboxes. That much alone would make all this nonsense less of an issue. But, I don't see Cryptic ever doing anything that logical. It's just not in their nature, being that they don't give a rat's behind about the players.
    Why wouldn't they? The obelisk carrier was originally an event ship of some kind, as was the dyson science destroyer. Both of those are now in the lobi shop.
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    Why wouldn't they? The obelisk carrier was originally an event ship of some kind, as was the dyson science destroyer. Both of those are now in the lobi shop.

    Because Cryptic has made countless bad decisions since DR came out and I don't see them doing otherwise in this case. I've given them the benefit of the doubt countless times before and naturally they disappoint. So, not going to apologize for being realistic and counting on them to do the wrong thing every chance they get.
  • iranoveryourdogiranoveryourdog Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    really wanted to be able to get a plesh brek this year so i can complete the console set... really starting to regret that lts purchase :/
  • outlawgraphixoutlawgraphix Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    All this grousing about the 'hoarders' is nothing more than sour grapes. Most of the people griping about "So and So gets the 'prize' on day one while I have to wait X number of days" tells me that they only grind the event for the requisite number of day to get the prize and that's it. Those of us that continued the grind still have done it the requisite number of times to get the same present, we just had enough fortitude to do it in advance. We 'hoarders' still have met the same requirements that any other player has to meet. We just had the intelligence and patience to plan ahead. There should be no penalty for that. Patience and perseverance should be rewarded, not punished!
  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    Why wouldn't they? The obelisk carrier was originally an event ship of some kind, as was the dyson science destroyer. Both of those are now in the lobi shop.

    800 lobi for one ship, I bought enough from the exchange to know I would never send 800 lobi for a ship. Not worth it so any ship there, I'll never get. Who has 800X3= for the other three ships I dont and the cost of all that lobi would mean I spent far more then I should have ever spent on one game. Fallout4 came out to today, Im not good in math but I did it.

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  • rjewkesrjewkes Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    Help me understand "Exclusiveness and collectability? When i hear or rather read exclusive it means a select few, i.e. many will enter 500 will recieve the ship. Collectability suggest something of a permanent nature (Keepsake) that will always have an intrinsic value. I think if we remove the filter for a minute, those who ran the event just enough to receive 1 ship per toon as they chose are pissed when next year the guys who kept running have enough photo's to collect the ship on day 1 or 2 or whatever day they finally have enough. my question is if i run 45 days each year, and so does almost everyone else, how is that an unfair advantage? what next will we be penalized becuase a winter storm doesn't knock out our power mid event? Becuase we paid our internet bill but 25 players couldn't and couldn't play for that time? if we all run the event for the required currency or buy with lobi we all get the ship so it won't be exclusive that way. I start to sense this as more of a intisement for the first dayers to spend lobi, wich to do that they have to buy zen. use zen to buy lock box key, open lock box. so this is all about cryptic and pw getting to sell more zen. Or it is more the guys who do buy lobi and buy ship tokens with lobi Aare pissed i did it the free way? iether exclusiveness is worse then selling us a toiletbowel sandwich.
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Y'know, I've been on the fence about this the entire time. And honestly, I'm starting to feel that this ship debacle is a no-win situation for everyone, players and Cryptic alike.

    We're seeing what happens when they remove the ships - people get angry, demanding to put everything back. Now, what if they keep the ships? This year would be four ships - Warship, Heavy Raider, Carrier and most-likely Dreadnought (if the Admirality card is right) Next year would be five and perhaps a T6 Warship. The year after that would be six, then seven and possibly going into T7s by that point. Maybe. Who knows. It's too unwieldy. Something's gotta give.

    Now what about putting the ships into the Lobi Store? All three together would be 2500 Lobi, which would certainly anger those who'd want them on the cheap. There might not even be an option to buy them and sell them on the Exchange, like the 4th Anniversary DSDs. Even more, you might not be able to even buy them through your store unlocks if you did get one there. And while the Carrier is still T6, what happens if they bring out a T6 Warship or a T6 Heavy Raider. Congratulations on your 800 Lobi Admirality cards.

    Both these options would lead to the same thing we're seeing here - people coming to the forums to declare that Cryptic is trying to kill their game and they will never buy anything again and all the same tired excuses and retreads repeated for the past six years.

    It's a no win situation because without some alternate way to acquire these ships it screws everyone over who could ever want to complete the set. In terms of ships, it's no different than having a ton of them in the cstore unlocked. people still have to do the events to unlock the ships.

    Point being removing options is never a good thing. Also simply because a ship exists doesn't mean the new player will have to acquire it. They can if they want to but are not required to do so. The same goes true for cstore ships, they can get them but aren't required to do so. The extra ships simply gives people a reason to keep running the event. limit it to 1-2 per year if they want to stretch it out more.
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  • aesicaaesica Member Posts: 736 Arc User
    sov42 wrote: »
    Because Cryptic has made countless bad decisions since DR came out and I don't see them doing otherwise in this case. I've given them the benefit of the doubt countless times before and naturally they disappoint. So, not going to apologize for being realistic and counting on them to do the wrong thing every chance they get.
    Cryptic, like any MMO developer/operator, makes good decisions as well as bad ones. The problem is that everyone keeps fixating on what they perceive to be the bad ones.

    That aside, you seem pretty unhappy with the game. Why do you still play it then? Not trying to be rude--honest question. I'd never play a game I was unhappy with.
    tarran61 wrote: »
    800 lobi for one ship, I bought enough from the exchange to know I would never send 800 lobi for a ship. Not worth it so any ship there, I'll never get. Who has 800X3= for the other three ships I dont and the cost of all that lobi would mean I spent far more then I should have ever spent on one game. Fallout4 came out to today, Im not good in math but I did it.
    I agree, it is a lot, but at least that way it's still available and anyone who really wants a plesh brek raider or risan luxury cruiser or whatever can still work their TRIBBLE off to get one. I wanted the Vaadwaur Astika real badly for its mastery trait, and while there's no way in hell I'd ever spend the kind of cash required to accumulate the 900 lobi needed to buy one, I was able to get one off the exchange from someone who obviously had lobi to burn. In the end, I got my Astika even though it completely broke my bank--bear in mind, I'm a scumbag silver player who can only get zen/ec/etc by pouring huge amounts of dilithium into the dilithium exchange.

    Where there's a will, there's a way. Isn't that how the saying goes?
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  • aphelionmarauderaphelionmarauder Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    Three words......What....the...hell.

    They just get rid of these ships. No more breen TRIBBLE, no more anything. Just remove every part of the game that was there since the good old days just to keep up with some crappy agenda. They don't even put the event ships on the zen store so those who got it for free had there chance. Not even lobi store, or some vendor for a ridiculous amount of ec, or a Life Sub perk, nothing. Not even a lockbox. Hell, they could make a lockbox with all the event ships in it for crying out loud.

    Just really disappointing. :(
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  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,789 Arc User
    farshore wrote: »
    You'll let us spend lobi to get photos to get ahead, but if we run the event years ahead of time on multiple characters, that's no good?

    They changed the event so completing ONCE now unlocks for ALL CHARACTERS including FUTURE ALTS you create months or years later.

    Cryptic has done something very nice for us. You should be happy about that.

    Unfortunately, they still have yet to fix the original Breen ship being claimable on other characters for those of us who have already unlocked it.
  • saber1973asaber1973a Member Posts: 1,224 Arc User
    Not all poeple have that problem with claiming Breen ships - i got all 3, so i don't have room to say in whatever removing them is good or bad. But claiming them from Event Store works for me without any problems....
    And speking of retired Event ships... there were some other, less famed ships that showed up and vanished, like T5 Kamarang Retrofit or T5 Ambassador... (the later was revived for a time).
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    Well I'm not doing anymore events then. just Dil grind if this will be the result. This is stupid beyond beleif. Not everyone has time to fill up all of those events in the timelimit so save them for next year. Now I can't do that so why should I ever participate in events again. PINK SLIPS FOR THE LOT OF YOU!.
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