The new console effectively makes the Valiant/Malem 5/3 and the Kor 5/2, in much the same way that the Tempest is 4/4 with the TailGun. It costs the Tempest a BOff, it optionally costs these ships a console. Stop complaining about the weapons layout
People complaining that Feds shouldn't get BattleCloak because it messes with the faction differences? Well, originally Carriers were Fed only - except, somehow I've ended up with Faction-Carriers on my Klingons/Romulans and only the Breen Carrier on my Feds... (And, who don't the Tal'Shiar ships come with Assimilated Singularity Cores? Or, perhaps the ability to slot either core type?)
Now, I'm not saying the Feds need BattleCloak on the Valiant (although it would be nice, and make it more distinct from the Phantom) but if they don't get it could Cryptic please change the set bonus to do something other than the useless decrease cloak cooldown? (Shields stay up for 2 seconds after cloak activates? Bonus torpedo shield penetration? Increased Defense? 10-min cooldown 'disengage enemy'/'leave combat' button?) It's like giving the Galaxy class a set-bonus to decrease cooldown on launching Hanger pets... Well, unless the Dreadnought can use the Galaxy set, in which case this cloak bonus would be worse
{EDIT}Also, the console only shows cooldown for the first charge. Can we get this updated to match the Omegea launcher please?
People complaining that Feds shouldn't get BattleCloak because it messes with the faction differences? Well, originally Carriers were Fed only - except, somehow I've ended up with Faction-Carriers on my Klingons/Romulans and only the Breen Carrier on my Feds...
Actually, carriers were a KDF original, the Vo'Quv Carrier at T5 started it, followed by the Kar'fi also at T5, then the Orion flight deck cruisers were added later in the lower teirs. Only after that did the feds get the Atrox and the T5 Akira. The Dominion ships came out before feds got their own carriers as I recall.
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen?
Actually the Intrepid and Galaxy had markedly poor showings throughout TNG and Voyager. In particular, I've been watching episodes of Voyager lately, and I'm not even exaggerating when the show can't go an episode without the threat of a warpcore breach. The Defiant on the other hand is pretty consistent as a "tough little ship" that gives as good as it gets.
Yes, but the Galaxy (Ent-D) and Intrepid (Voyager) also had "plot armour", very much like the Defiant did..the biggest instance of this, IMO, is in the Year of Hell where Voyager was under constant attack(?) and the crew still managed to survive long enough to form an alliance. We didn't see much combat in TNG, thanks in part to the writing and Picard's diplomacy.
5/2 weps, Pilot maneuvers, that's all unreasonable.
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Someone want to walk me through this?
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
Let's face it, since Cryptic introduced the 5/2 laoyout, why should any Escort not use it?
But that's not how it worked out. Cryptic seems to think 4/3 and 5/2 are both reasonable variations for Escorts. And they also seem to think 5/1 and 4/2 are viable variations for Raiders.
Sure, but for most 4/3 escorts if we try really hard and squint a little while looking at it from a certain angle we can fool ourselves into thinking its ok. The Phantom, Hestia, and Alita all have something we can at least try to pretend makes them ok, and in some cases that´s actually enough. Is a fighter bay enough to make up a 4/3 yo 5/2 difference? How about a lt cmder lvl sci power? I think these are reasonably tradeoffs that based on what you´re trying to build may work for you. Can´t do that with the Valiant. I think its that cognitive dissonance that makes us do a double take and get some people really angry because they WANT to get the valiant. They love the defiant, but its just too far beneath the other better and sometimes even cheaper escorts for them to mentally justify the purchase. Its the Defiant love that´s making it bad, otherwise it´d be just another bad ship put out by Cryptic and we´d turn up our noses at it.
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen?
Actually the Intrepid and Galaxy had markedly poor showings throughout TNG and Voyager. In particular, I've been watching episodes of Voyager lately, and I'm not even exaggerating when the show can't go an episode without the threat of a warpcore breach. The Defiant on the other hand is pretty consistent as a "tough little ship" that gives as good as it gets.
Yes, but the Galaxy (Ent-D) and Intrepid (Voyager) also had "plot armour", very much like the Defiant did..the biggest instance of this, IMO, is in the Year of Hell where Voyager was under constant attack(?) and the crew still managed to survive long enough to form an alliance. We didn't see much combat in TNG, thanks in part to the writing and Picard's diplomacy.
5/2 weps, Pilot maneuvers, that's all unreasonable.
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Someone want to walk me through this?
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
Let's face it, since Cryptic introduced the 5/2 laoyout, why should any Escort not use it?
But that's not how it worked out. Cryptic seems to think 4/3 and 5/2 are both reasonable variations for Escorts. And they also seem to think 5/1 and 4/2 are viable variations for Raiders.
Sure, but for most 4/3 escorts if we try really hard and squint a little while looking at it from a certain angle we can fool ourselves into thinking its ok. The Phantom, Hestia, and Alita all have something we can at least try to pretend makes them ok, and in some cases that´s actually enough. Is a fighter bay enough to make up a 4/3 yo 5/2 difference? How about a lt cmder lvl sci power? I think these are reasonably tradeoffs that based on what you´re trying to build may work for you. Can´t do that with the Valiant. I think its that cognitive dissonance that makes us do a double take and get some people really angry because they WANT to get the valiant. They love the defiant, but its just too far beneath the other better and sometimes even cheaper escorts for them to mentally justify the purchase. Its the Defiant love that´s making it bad, otherwise it´d be just another bad ship put out by Cryptic and we´d turn up our noses at it.
dont try to hard, seriously, i am saying the same that you say from the start here but its like trying to explain it to deaf and blind people. When i say " we want something, not everything, but we get nothing" that should be even understandable by a little kid.
But thats not the case here......instead they defend it like their lives are depending on it, and come up with comparisons between the Valiant and other Escorts, like the Phantom, Alita, Hestia and so on....yet they FAIL to see that all those other ships have SOMETHING, something that like you also mentioned are somewhat reasonable tradeoffs (or in some cases WAY more than that) for not having that 5 / 2 Layout......and sorry to say that but EVERYONE who even dares to mention the Phantom, and saying that "if the Valiant gets 5 / 2, so should the Phantom and all other Ships" is nothing but a troll...the Phantom that allready has the Gather Intel Abilitys, the Commander Level Intel Seat, the Heavy Phaser Lance and the INTEGRATED Cloak.....Hestia CAN use the Promis MVAM Console and gets the 2 Pets, and its own Console is also not bad, Alita has its Hangar Bay and pets can be usefull its own console is also ok.....
Now the Valiant........I asked that over and over again but NO one could answer that Question with a logical answer, WHAT has the Valiant??? WHAT did it have compared to all those other Ships?? What does it have as a Tradeoff??? That Gimmicky Torp Console? and the Quads (that you have to buy with the Sao Paulo) that are nice to look at but still subpar and outperformed by any DHC?? (i wanted to use them too, so i wanted to buy the Sao Paulo just for that, but than they released the Valiants stats and i lost my Interest entirely)
someone seriously compared ME to a rich kid, because i want something, since we got nothing?.....let me give you a better comparision about you guys......The Valiant is a poor little Kid (cause has nothing) thats asks "Please Sir, can i have some bread?, iam so hungry" and suddenly everyone screams, "BUT!!!!!!!! If that poor little Kid gets that piece of bread, than the RICH and FAT kids also deserve to get MOAR! because that would be ***"""FAIR"""***and as you can imagine, those Rich and Fat Kids are for example the Phantom, Pilot Ships and so on cause they allready have everything.......yet again the same people also fail to understand that simple logic and instead, yell at you, insult you and throw a million counter arguments at you that are all nothing but "hot air" and celebrate Cryptic for this "awesome" job......
The 5 / 2 Layout would be that "little piece" of bread to ensure that the poor little Valiant does not Starve...but i gues its just to much to ask for....
and get some people really angry because they WANT to get the valiant. They love the defiant, but its just too far beneath the other better and sometimes even cheaper escorts for them to mentally justify the purchase. Its the Defiant love that´s making it bad, otherwise it´d be just another bad ship put out by Cryptic and we´d turn up our noses at it
THIS times 100000000000, if it was just another Cryptic in house Design no one would give a DAMN, but doing this to a Hero / Iconic ship HURTS beyond belief because YES i TOO Love the Defiant, it was my First T5 Ship (Fleet Defiant) in the Game for my FIRST Character out of 42) back than when i started to play, but it did not take long before the Defiant was outperformed by everything that followed it so i had to switch...
Now THIS here, the Valiant was THE Chance to bring this so beloved ship BACK to its Glory, instead they insulted and Trampled on it, and throw it at us like "oh yea, so you want your hero ship back huh? well here take that, like it or not we dont care........"
and again THIS HURTS!!! I so wanted to buy that damn thing and the Sao Paulo, slap the Qauds on it and enjoy my Canon Ship...but you said it right, there is no way i can "mentaly justify" to purchase it when i clearly see that its Inferior to basically everything else...yet costs the same Price......call me sentimental but it "nearly" bring tears into my eyes
How about they add another console slot and boost the shields and hull and count these as the Tactical Escorts, then make Science and Engineering ones for each faction so it's a 9 pack which are the only complete ships sold by them.
They need to stop tying a steak around the fleet systems neck to get people to play with it.
Wow is this thread still going? What do you guys hope to accomplish?
for example what we "partially" accomplished with them announcing that they will "update" the valiants Set Bonus? Its still unknown what this update will be, but hopefully better than what it is right now, BUT even with a better Set Bonus the Valiant still has like nothing compared to the other Escorts, and thats why this Thread still goes on.
"If you dont ask for "something", you will get nothing"
But if you are happy with everything, why even bother comenting here right? We do, because we are not happy.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
Funnily enough you're quoting a comment from much earlier in the thread from a point before Highlandrise calmed.
You're right of course the endless whining is not the best way, even though it can be effective, reasoned debate is far better which is where this thread was headed before a few others popped in to drag comments back up from early in the thread without taking later comments into consideration and context.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
Funnily enough you're quoting a comment from much earlier in the thread from a point before Highlandrise calmed.
You're right of course the endless whining is not the best way, even though it can be effective, reasoned debate is far better which is where this thread was headed before a few others popped in to drag comments back up from early in the thread without taking later comments into consideration and context.
thats also called "trolling""Flaming" instead of reading the whole thing, they see something and decide to jump at it before even taking the time and understanding it but whatever all good
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
I read the thread. there's a whole lot of rage from a handful of people.... That doesn't demonstrate that the majority hated it...
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
I read the thread. there's a whole lot of rage from a handful of people.... That doesn't demonstrate that the majority hated it...
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
and because you did read the thread you saw the need to "flame" it up again right. If i would quote every single of those "handfull" people we would have twice the amount of pages here, and its Crystal Clear that we have way more people that are not happy with the stats / layout than the ones that are, denying that fact is lying to yourself.
Sometimes the Line between "raging" and "politely asking" can be very blurry, it can start with the one, and lead to the other when the "politely asking" is deliberatly ignored.
I was thinking of getting these ships but the more I looked at em the more I realize they'd just be sitting in a dock somewhere and I am in no way interested in trying to upgrade more equipment for more ships. I picked out my Quib and Fheat for my KDF and Romulan when they first started adding "specialization" ships and I'm sticking with them. These new ones are just more grind and less bug fixes and story content.
Honestly I miss when it was just T5. You could pick up an alt character or ship and kit it out without too much grind. Between RNG upgrades and specialization grinds not so much anymore.
I was thinking of getting these ships but the more I looked at em the more I realize they'd just be sitting in a dock somewhere and I am in no way interested in trying to upgrade more equipment for more ships. I picked out my Quib and Fheat for my KDF and Romulan when they first started adding "specialization" ships and I'm sticking with them. These new ones are just more grind and less bug fixes and story content.
Those are different teams. They're all Devs, but different teams working on different pieces of the game. From what I understand, creating a new ship doesn't take away time from bug fixes.
So i bought the Valiant the other night and im not disappointed, maybe due to reasonable expectations. I was flying the T5-U just before and it pretty much the same, save for appearance and the new torp console which delivers massive damage, something like 40k for me.
Once they release the set update ill be even more content.
Those are different teams. They're all Devs, but different teams working on different pieces of the game. From what I understand, creating a new ship doesn't take away time from bug fixes.
I was thinking of getting these ships but the more I looked at em the more I realize they'd just be sitting in a dock somewhere and I am in no way interested in trying to upgrade more equipment for more ships. I picked out my Quib and Fheat for my KDF and Romulan when they first started adding "specialization" ships and I'm sticking with them. These new ones are just more grind and less bug fixes and story content.
Those are different teams. They're all Devs, but different teams working on different pieces of the game. From what I understand, creating a new ship doesn't take away time from bug fixes.
Well they better get the debugging team going then because I'm having oh so much fun getting disconnected from the server in the new Badlands battleground or being stuck in there with "server not responding" yet I'm still streaming music like I normally have done over the months of playing this game. I'm sure that is just the tip of the ice berg because if they let things get too bad nobody will buy ships for a broken game.
Loving the Kor & Malem. I'll grab the Trait from the Valiant and go back to my Ajax afterwards. The KDF & ROM ships are Gems, the Defiant is a good update but not revolutionary.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
I read the thread. there's a whole lot of rage from a handful of people.... That doesn't demonstrate that the majority hated it...
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
and because you did read the thread you saw the need to "flame" it up again right. If i would quote every single of those "handfull" people we would have twice the amount of pages here, and its Crystal Clear that we have way more people that are not happy with the stats / layout than the ones that are, denying that fact is lying to yourself.
Sometimes the Line between "raging" and "politely asking" can be very blurry, it can start with the one, and lead to the other when the "politely asking" is deliberatly ignored.
To: HighlandRise Posts: 258Member Arc User,
Wow. I only asked 'what you hope to accomplish'. And for that, I get bashed?
OK well, I'm going to guess your low post count means you're kind of new. I myself have been subbed gold to this game for five years and I don't have a thousand yet so that might not be a good way to measure, but for the moment, it's all I have unless you want to show us otherwise.
ANYWAYS, the main reason I even posted in the first place is because you guys seem to think that whining to high hades is going to get you somewhere?
BECAUSE it has already been said, by Cryptic DEVS, over and over, that your whining is NOT heard. Period. Don't believe me? Look Here:
That's because we no longer include the forums, or players in general (outside of more controlled interview settings) to see the process, talk about what we're planning on doing, or what's up coming. Instead, by time we are ready to talk about a thing, it pretty much is set in stone. That's not saying there isn't some wiggle room. We'll take feedback on how something was put in, and tweak some stuff, but the process has likely already been going long enough that we can't just dump it all and start over again.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
I read the thread. there's a whole lot of rage from a handful of people.... That doesn't demonstrate that the majority hated it...
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
and because you did read the thread you saw the need to "flame" it up again right. If i would quote every single of those "handfull" people we would have twice the amount of pages here, and its Crystal Clear that we have way more people that are not happy with the stats / layout than the ones that are, denying that fact is lying to yourself.
Sometimes the Line between "raging" and "politely asking" can be very blurry, it can start with the one, and lead to the other when the "politely asking" is deliberatly ignored.
To: HighlandRise Posts: 258Member Arc User,
Wow. I only asked 'what you hope to accomplish'. And for that, I get bashed?
OK well, I'm going to guess your low post count means you're kind of new. I myself have been subbed gold to this game for five years and I don't have a thousand yet so that might not be a good way to measure, but for the moment, it's all I have unless you want to show us otherwise.
ANYWAYS, the main reason I even posted in the first place is because you guys seem to think that whining to high hades is going to get you somewhere?
BECAUSE it has already been said, by Cryptic DEVS, over and over, that your whining is NOT heard. Period. Don't believe me? Look Here:
That's because we no longer include the forums, or players in general (outside of more controlled interview settings) to see the process, talk about what we're planning on doing, or what's up coming. Instead, by time we are ready to talk about a thing, it pretty much is set in stone. That's not saying there isn't some wiggle room. We'll take feedback on how something was put in, and tweak some stuff, but the process has likely already been going long enough that we can't just dump it all and start over again.
and where exactly have i bashed you??? your quote is me answering to hawkman not you, so??? and when you asked what we try to accomplish i just anwered you that question, and told you that we have a reason to post here because we are not happy, and if you are happy that i dont see a reason why you still post, so HOW is that Bashing??
and if you play sooo long, than you should know that the "joined date" or "member since" here on the forum does NOT reflect the date where someone started to play sto. One could have played since day 1 but could shown here in the forum as a member since yesterday, i startet around six months before Season 7 so sorry to dissapoint you but nope iam not new, and the amount of Posts here does what?? So because someone has thousands of posts does mean hes so much more experienced and special than someone with only a few hundreds??? There are People who basically "live" in the Forums and answer to everything they see, and than there are the People like me, who only participate in a thread / discussion when it affects them.
And regarding what the Devs said, the fact that we have the Reclaim store for event ships is more than enough proof that they DO listen to complaints because they HAVE to. When they decided back than to remove / discontinue older event Ships, the thread announcing that exploded from rage and complaints - i was one of them - , this thread here is a small thread compared to that announcement, after things got out of controll and people where not calming down someone from cryptic himself (if i recal corectly it was salaminferno) Posted and said that they have decided to implent the even ship reclaim store and tried to calm down people.
So YES they do listen to People complaints and if neccesary do some BIGGER changes too and YES they watch the Forums for such Complaints, but it depends how much people complaining, if enough they will and have too do some changes to calm people down, anything else is bad for business.
So, no YOU know.
Good Day Sir.
[Edit] and by the way, other than the Update for the Valiants Set i dont think that they will change much more, in other words i gave up hope, like everyone else who was complaining gave up allready so it seems, instead my gues is that people just decided to do what cryptic does, they ignore us we ignore their new ship - as much as it hurts as a Defiant Lover - so time to move on.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
I read the thread. there's a whole lot of rage from a handful of people.... That doesn't demonstrate that the majority hated it...
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
and because you did read the thread you saw the need to "flame" it up again right. If i would quote every single of those "handfull" people we would have twice the amount of pages here, and its Crystal Clear that we have way more people that are not happy with the stats / layout than the ones that are, denying that fact is lying to yourself.
Sometimes the Line between "raging" and "politely asking" can be very blurry, it can start with the one, and lead to the other when the "politely asking" is deliberatly ignored.
To: HighlandRise Posts: 258Member Arc User,
Wow. I only asked 'what you hope to accomplish'. And for that, I get bashed?
OK well, I'm going to guess your low post count means you're kind of new. I myself have been subbed gold to this game for five years and I don't have a thousand yet so that might not be a good way to measure, but for the moment, it's all I have unless you want to show us otherwise.
ANYWAYS, the main reason I even posted in the first place is because you guys seem to think that whining to high hades is going to get you somewhere?
BECAUSE it has already been said, by Cryptic DEVS, over and over, that your whining is NOT heard. Period. Don't believe me? Look Here:
That's because we no longer include the forums, or players in general (outside of more controlled interview settings) to see the process, talk about what we're planning on doing, or what's up coming. Instead, by time we are ready to talk about a thing, it pretty much is set in stone. That's not saying there isn't some wiggle room. We'll take feedback on how something was put in, and tweak some stuff, but the process has likely already been going long enough that we can't just dump it all and start over again.
and where exactly have i bashed you??? your quote is me answering to hawkman now you you, so??? and when you asked what we try to accomplish i just anwered you that question, and told you that we have a reason to post here because we are not happy, and if you are happy that i dont see a reason why you still post, so HOW is that Bashing??
and if you play sooo long, than you should know that the "joined date" or "member since" here on the forum does NOT reflect the date where someone started to play sto. One could have played since day 1 but could shown here in the forum as a member since yesterday, i startet around six months before Season 7 so sorry to dissapoint you but nope iam not new, and the amount of Posts here does what?? So because someone has thousands of posts does mean hes so much more experienced and special than someone with only a few hundreds??? There are People who basically "live" in the Forums and answer to everything they see, and than there are the People like me, who only participate in a thread / discussion when it affects them.
And regarding what the Devs said, the fact that we have the Reclaim store for event ships is more than enough proof that they DO listen to complaints because they HAVE to. When they decided back than to remove / discontinue older event Ships, the thread announcing that exploded from rage and complaints - i was one of them - , this thread here is a small thread compared to that announcement, after things got out of controll and people where not calming down a dev himself (if i recal corectly it was borticus) Posted and said that they have decided to implent the even ship reclaim store and tried to calm down people.
So YES they do listen to People complaints and if neccesary do some BIGGER changes too and YES they watch the Forums for such Complaints, but it depends how much people complaining, if enough they will and have too do some changes to calm people down, anything else is bad for business.
So, no YOU know.
Good Day Sir.
Thank you for helping me perfect my signature. That will save me a ton of time in the future, which is wasted when trying to reason with unreasonable persons, entities, shadows...etc. etc. etc. so on and so forth ad nauseum intoinfinityandbeyond!!!!!!!!!!!!!XinfinityXinfinitySquaredacheepacheegoomalacheemymothertoldmetopickthisoneandYOUareNOTit!!!!!!!!!!!
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
I read the thread. there's a whole lot of rage from a handful of people.... That doesn't demonstrate that the majority hated it...
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
and because you did read the thread you saw the need to "flame" it up again right. If i would quote every single of those "handfull" people we would have twice the amount of pages here, and its Crystal Clear that we have way more people that are not happy with the stats / layout than the ones that are, denying that fact is lying to yourself.
Sometimes the Line between "raging" and "politely asking" can be very blurry, it can start with the one, and lead to the other when the "politely asking" is deliberatly ignored.
To: HighlandRise Posts: 258Member Arc User,
Wow. I only asked 'what you hope to accomplish'. And for that, I get bashed?
OK well, I'm going to guess your low post count means you're kind of new. I myself have been subbed gold to this game for five years and I don't have a thousand yet so that might not be a good way to measure, but for the moment, it's all I have unless you want to show us otherwise.
ANYWAYS, the main reason I even posted in the first place is because you guys seem to think that whining to high hades is going to get you somewhere?
BECAUSE it has already been said, by Cryptic DEVS, over and over, that your whining is NOT heard. Period. Don't believe me? Look Here:
That's because we no longer include the forums, or players in general (outside of more controlled interview settings) to see the process, talk about what we're planning on doing, or what's up coming. Instead, by time we are ready to talk about a thing, it pretty much is set in stone. That's not saying there isn't some wiggle room. We'll take feedback on how something was put in, and tweak some stuff, but the process has likely already been going long enough that we can't just dump it all and start over again.
and where exactly have i bashed you??? your quote is me answering to hawkman now you you, so??? and when you asked what we try to accomplish i just anwered you that question, and told you that we have a reason to post here because we are not happy, and if you are happy that i dont see a reason why you still post, so HOW is that Bashing??
and if you play sooo long, than you should know that the "joined date" or "member since" here on the forum does NOT reflect the date where someone started to play sto. One could have played since day 1 but could shown here in the forum as a member since yesterday, i startet around six months before Season 7 so sorry to dissapoint you but nope iam not new, and the amount of Posts here does what?? So because someone has thousands of posts does mean hes so much more experienced and special than someone with only a few hundreds??? There are People who basically "live" in the Forums and answer to everything they see, and than there are the People like me, who only participate in a thread / discussion when it affects them.
And regarding what the Devs said, the fact that we have the Reclaim store for event ships is more than enough proof that they DO listen to complaints because they HAVE to. When they decided back than to remove / discontinue older event Ships, the thread announcing that exploded from rage and complaints - i was one of them - , this thread here is a small thread compared to that announcement, after things got out of controll and people where not calming down a dev himself (if i recal corectly it was borticus) Posted and said that they have decided to implent the even ship reclaim store and tried to calm down people.
So YES they do listen to People complaints and if neccesary do some BIGGER changes too and YES they watch the Forums for such Complaints, but it depends how much people complaining, if enough they will and have too do some changes to calm people down, anything else is bad for business.
So, no YOU know.
Good Day Sir.
Thank you for helping me perfect my signature. That will save me a ton of time in the future, which is wasted when trying to reason with unreasonable persons, entities, shadows...etc. etc. etc. so on and so forth ad nauseum intoinfinityandbeyond!!!!!!!!!!!!!XinfinityXinfinitySquaredacheepacheegoomalacheemymothertoldmetopickthisoneandYOUareNOTit!!!!!!!!!!!
You are Most Welcome mr "iam Right you are Wrong" so if you are done with your "Bashing" and "Flaming" can we go on now or you plan to continue this??
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
If you wish to claim you represent the majority, you must prove it.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
I read the thread. there's a whole lot of rage from a handful of people.... That doesn't demonstrate that the majority hated it...
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
and because you did read the thread you saw the need to "flame" it up again right. If i would quote every single of those "handfull" people we would have twice the amount of pages here, and its Crystal Clear that we have way more people that are not happy with the stats / layout than the ones that are, denying that fact is lying to yourself.
Sometimes the Line between "raging" and "politely asking" can be very blurry, it can start with the one, and lead to the other when the "politely asking" is deliberatly ignored.
To: HighlandRise Posts: 258Member Arc User,
Wow. I only asked 'what you hope to accomplish'. And for that, I get bashed?
OK well, I'm going to guess your low post count means you're kind of new. I myself have been subbed gold to this game for five years and I don't have a thousand yet so that might not be a good way to measure, but for the moment, it's all I have unless you want to show us otherwise.
ANYWAYS, the main reason I even posted in the first place is because you guys seem to think that whining to high hades is going to get you somewhere?
BECAUSE it has already been said, by Cryptic DEVS, over and over, that your whining is NOT heard. Period. Don't believe me? Look Here:
That's because we no longer include the forums, or players in general (outside of more controlled interview settings) to see the process, talk about what we're planning on doing, or what's up coming. Instead, by time we are ready to talk about a thing, it pretty much is set in stone. That's not saying there isn't some wiggle room. We'll take feedback on how something was put in, and tweak some stuff, but the process has likely already been going long enough that we can't just dump it all and start over again.
That's only partially correct. He didn't mean they don't listen to feedback, only that they don't ask the players for ideas.
And thats exactly my Point, they do, because they have to and that was proven often enough, everything else would be "Self Destruction" since they want to earn money of their Product, by "selling" it to their Customers, and if you Ignore your Customers = No Money (or at least way less).
How much or how big such changes are depends on how big the complaints about it are, if just a handfull complain, nothing will happen, if a moderate amount of People complain they will try to find a compromise, but if a Serious amount of People complain and or even start to Rage for a extended Time, than believe it or not THEY WILL Listen and will make the neccesary Adjustments, because they MUST.
If People had not complained about the Valiants 2 Piece Set, than they would not have announced that they will Update it = IT WORKED (even so its unknow what those changes will be) there was also enough Complaints about the rest of the Valiant, cause she just has not enough to offer compared to the other Escorts, those Complaints were not big / long enough to "force" them to make the neccesary Changes.
It is what it is, but in the end they still hurt themselfs since no matter how the sales for the Valiant was, it would have been MUCH better if they had listened, but its over they decided to ignore those People and in exchange those People (or many of them) decided to ignore their offer, bad Business but their choice.
That's only partially correct. He didn't mean they don't listen to feedback, only that they don't ask the players for ideas.
And thats exactly my Point, they do, because they have to and that was proven often enough, everything else would be "Self Destruction" since they want to earn money of their Product, by "selling" it to their Customers, and if you Ignore your Customers = No Money (or at least way less).
What might help to simplify is to just to consider Taco's statement in the context of modern game design. A dev can spend months or years working on something. Then it's announced to the public through some kind of PR. At that point (when direct feedback is possible) there truly isn't a whole lot that can be done to make big changes prior to or shortly after release. Even with the best will in the world, the time simply does not exist
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And thats exactly my Point, they do, because they have to and that was proven often enough, everything else would be "Self Destruction" since they want to earn money of their Product, by "selling" it to their Customers, and if you Ignore your Customers = No Money (or at least way less).
How much or how big such changes are depends on how big the complaints about it are, if just a handfull complain, nothing will happen, if a moderate amount of People complain they will try to find a compromise, but if a Serious amount of People complain and or even start to Rage for a extended Time, than believe it or not THEY WILL Listen and will make the neccesary Adjustments, because they MUST.
I think "rage" is the stuff that most people are most likely to tune out first.
The Devs are definitely willing to listen to feedback, especially so when things are posted to Tribble for live play-testing in the players' hands. But there's a big difference between feedback and complaining/raging. And a lot of that difference comes down to phrasing and presentation - and to be honest, silly signatures such as the line at the bottom of yours don't help.
And thats exactly my Point, they do, because they have to and that was proven often enough, everything else would be "Self Destruction" since they want to earn money of their Product, by "selling" it to their Customers, and if you Ignore your Customers = No Money (or at least way less).
How much or how big such changes are depends on how big the complaints about it are, if just a handfull complain, nothing will happen, if a moderate amount of People complain they will try to find a compromise, but if a Serious amount of People complain and or even start to Rage for a extended Time, than believe it or not THEY WILL Listen and will make the neccesary Adjustments, because they MUST.
I think "rage" is the stuff that most people are most likely to tune out first.
The Devs are definitely willing to listen to feedback, especially so when things are posted to Tribble for live play-testing in the players' hands. But there's a big difference between feedback and complaining/raging. And a lot of that difference comes down to phrasing and presentation - and to be honest, silly signatures such as the line at the bottom of yours don't help.
Yes, rage posts tend to have very little useful information in them.
Comments
People complaining that Feds shouldn't get BattleCloak because it messes with the faction differences? Well, originally Carriers were Fed only - except, somehow I've ended up with Faction-Carriers on my Klingons/Romulans and only the Breen Carrier on my Feds... (And, who don't the Tal'Shiar ships come with Assimilated Singularity Cores? Or, perhaps the ability to slot either core type?)
Now, I'm not saying the Feds need BattleCloak on the Valiant (although it would be nice, and make it more distinct from the Phantom) but if they don't get it could Cryptic please change the set bonus to do something other than the useless decrease cloak cooldown? (Shields stay up for 2 seconds after cloak activates? Bonus torpedo shield penetration? Increased Defense? 10-min cooldown 'disengage enemy'/'leave combat' button?) It's like giving the Galaxy class a set-bonus to decrease cooldown on launching Hanger pets... Well, unless the Dreadnought can use the Galaxy set, in which case this cloak bonus would be worse
{EDIT} Also, the console only shows cooldown for the first charge. Can we get this updated to match the Omegea launcher please?
Actually, carriers were a KDF original, the Vo'Quv Carrier at T5 started it, followed by the Kar'fi also at T5, then the Orion flight deck cruisers were added later in the lower teirs. Only after that did the feds get the Atrox and the T5 Akira. The Dominion ships came out before feds got their own carriers as I recall.
Sure, but for most 4/3 escorts if we try really hard and squint a little while looking at it from a certain angle we can fool ourselves into thinking its ok. The Phantom, Hestia, and Alita all have something we can at least try to pretend makes them ok, and in some cases that´s actually enough. Is a fighter bay enough to make up a 4/3 yo 5/2 difference? How about a lt cmder lvl sci power? I think these are reasonably tradeoffs that based on what you´re trying to build may work for you. Can´t do that with the Valiant. I think its that cognitive dissonance that makes us do a double take and get some people really angry because they WANT to get the valiant. They love the defiant, but its just too far beneath the other better and sometimes even cheaper escorts for them to mentally justify the purchase. Its the Defiant love that´s making it bad, otherwise it´d be just another bad ship put out by Cryptic and we´d turn up our noses at it.
dont try to hard, seriously, i am saying the same that you say from the start here but its like trying to explain it to deaf and blind people. When i say " we want something, not everything, but we get nothing" that should be even understandable by a little kid.
But thats not the case here......instead they defend it like their lives are depending on it, and come up with comparisons between the Valiant and other Escorts, like the Phantom, Alita, Hestia and so on....yet they FAIL to see that all those other ships have SOMETHING, something that like you also mentioned are somewhat reasonable tradeoffs (or in some cases WAY more than that) for not having that 5 / 2 Layout......and sorry to say that but EVERYONE who even dares to mention the Phantom, and saying that "if the Valiant gets 5 / 2, so should the Phantom and all other Ships" is nothing but a troll...the Phantom that allready has the Gather Intel Abilitys, the Commander Level Intel Seat, the Heavy Phaser Lance and the INTEGRATED Cloak.....Hestia CAN use the Promis MVAM Console and gets the 2 Pets, and its own Console is also not bad, Alita has its Hangar Bay and pets can be usefull its own console is also ok.....
Now the Valiant........I asked that over and over again but NO one could answer that Question with a logical answer, WHAT has the Valiant??? WHAT did it have compared to all those other Ships?? What does it have as a Tradeoff??? That Gimmicky Torp Console? and the Quads (that you have to buy with the Sao Paulo) that are nice to look at but still subpar and outperformed by any DHC?? (i wanted to use them too, so i wanted to buy the Sao Paulo just for that, but than they released the Valiants stats and i lost my Interest entirely)
someone seriously compared ME to a rich kid, because i want something, since we got nothing?.....let me give you a better comparision about you guys......The Valiant is a poor little Kid (cause has nothing) thats asks "Please Sir, can i have some bread?, iam so hungry" and suddenly everyone screams, "BUT!!!!!!!! If that poor little Kid gets that piece of bread, than the RICH and FAT kids also deserve to get MOAR! because that would be ***"""FAIR"""***and as you can imagine, those Rich and Fat Kids are for example the Phantom, Pilot Ships and so on cause they allready have everything.......yet again the same people also fail to understand that simple logic and instead, yell at you, insult you and throw a million counter arguments at you that are all nothing but "hot air" and celebrate Cryptic for this "awesome" job......
The 5 / 2 Layout would be that "little piece" of bread to ensure that the poor little Valiant does not Starve...but i gues its just to much to ask for....
and by the way
THIS times 100000000000, if it was just another Cryptic in house Design no one would give a DAMN, but doing this to a Hero / Iconic ship HURTS beyond belief because YES i TOO Love the Defiant, it was my First T5 Ship (Fleet Defiant) in the Game for my FIRST Character out of 42) back than when i started to play, but it did not take long before the Defiant was outperformed by everything that followed it so i had to switch...
Now THIS here, the Valiant was THE Chance to bring this so beloved ship BACK to its Glory, instead they insulted and Trampled on it, and throw it at us like "oh yea, so you want your hero ship back huh? well here take that, like it or not we dont care........"
and again THIS HURTS!!! I so wanted to buy that damn thing and the Sao Paulo, slap the Qauds on it and enjoy my Canon Ship...but you said it right, there is no way i can "mentaly justify" to purchase it when i clearly see that its Inferior to basically everything else...yet costs the same Price......call me sentimental but it "nearly" bring tears into my eyes
how about bacon instead? better?
They need to stop tying a steak around the fleet systems neck to get people to play with it.
for example what we "partially" accomplished with them announcing that they will "update" the valiants Set Bonus? Its still unknown what this update will be, but hopefully better than what it is right now, BUT even with a better Set Bonus the Valiant still has like nothing compared to the other Escorts, and thats why this Thread still goes on.
"If you dont ask for "something", you will get nothing"
But if you are happy with everything, why even bother comenting here right? We do, because we are not happy.
And no, it does not take endless whining to convince the devs to make changes....
My character Tsin'xing
Funnily enough you're quoting a comment from much earlier in the thread from a point before Highlandrise calmed.
You're right of course the endless whining is not the best way, even though it can be effective, reasoned debate is far better which is where this thread was headed before a few others popped in to drag comments back up from early in the thread without taking later comments into consideration and context.
go through this thread again, and look at the other Social Sites, i will not do the search for you, i did it, so can you.
And you are not naive at all....sure they decided to update the Console because everyone was so happy and "no" one complained, yea right.
Same was with the Event ships when they decided to "remove them" the thread was exploding from rage and anger, i was one of them, there were more pages on the first day than there are here after seveal days, and gues what? we got the reclaim store for those Event Ships - a dev Personaly announced that in the same thread - never than the less it was just a partial "Victory" since people who dont have those ships will not be able to get them anymore, but still we got "something" and that something was good. And if you think that we would have got that, if no one "asked" for it, than you also believe in Santa Clause.
They can ignore a certain "level" of complaints, but if that level raises too high than they have to listen, thats how business works, thats how the world works, dont know what rules are in place in "your" world, and to be honest, i dont care
thats also called "trolling""Flaming" instead of reading the whole thing, they see something and decide to jump at it before even taking the time and understanding it but whatever all good
And you're carefully ignoring the difference between raging and politely asking.
My character Tsin'xing
and because you did read the thread you saw the need to "flame" it up again right. If i would quote every single of those "handfull" people we would have twice the amount of pages here, and its Crystal Clear that we have way more people that are not happy with the stats / layout than the ones that are, denying that fact is lying to yourself.
Sometimes the Line between "raging" and "politely asking" can be very blurry, it can start with the one, and lead to the other when the "politely asking" is deliberatly ignored.
Honestly I miss when it was just T5. You could pick up an alt character or ship and kit it out without too much grind. Between RNG upgrades and specialization grinds not so much anymore.
Those are different teams. They're all Devs, but different teams working on different pieces of the game. From what I understand, creating a new ship doesn't take away time from bug fixes.
Once they release the set update ill be even more content.
Are you sure ?
David
*** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
Well they better get the debugging team going then because I'm having oh so much fun getting disconnected from the server in the new Badlands battleground or being stuck in there with "server not responding" yet I'm still streaming music like I normally have done over the months of playing this game. I'm sure that is just the tip of the ice berg because if they let things get too bad nobody will buy ships for a broken game.
To: HighlandRise Posts: 258Member Arc User,
Wow. I only asked 'what you hope to accomplish'. And for that, I get bashed?
OK well, I'm going to guess your low post count means you're kind of new. I myself have been subbed gold to this game for five years and I don't have a thousand yet so that might not be a good way to measure, but for the moment, it's all I have unless you want to show us otherwise.
ANYWAYS, the main reason I even posted in the first place is because you guys seem to think that whining to high hades is going to get you somewhere?
BECAUSE it has already been said, by Cryptic DEVS, over and over, that your whining is NOT heard. Period. Don't believe me? Look Here:
So, now you know.
Good day.
--T9
To: thetanine Posts: 880Member Arc User,
and where exactly have i bashed you??? your quote is me answering to hawkman not you, so??? and when you asked what we try to accomplish i just anwered you that question, and told you that we have a reason to post here because we are not happy, and if you are happy that i dont see a reason why you still post, so HOW is that Bashing??
and if you play sooo long, than you should know that the "joined date" or "member since" here on the forum does NOT reflect the date where someone started to play sto. One could have played since day 1 but could shown here in the forum as a member since yesterday, i startet around six months before Season 7 so sorry to dissapoint you but nope iam not new, and the amount of Posts here does what?? So because someone has thousands of posts does mean hes so much more experienced and special than someone with only a few hundreds??? There are People who basically "live" in the Forums and answer to everything they see, and than there are the People like me, who only participate in a thread / discussion when it affects them.
And regarding what the Devs said, the fact that we have the Reclaim store for event ships is more than enough proof that they DO listen to complaints because they HAVE to. When they decided back than to remove / discontinue older event Ships, the thread announcing that exploded from rage and complaints - i was one of them - , this thread here is a small thread compared to that announcement, after things got out of controll and people where not calming down someone from cryptic himself (if i recal corectly it was salaminferno) Posted and said that they have decided to implent the even ship reclaim store and tried to calm down people.
So YES they do listen to People complaints and if neccesary do some BIGGER changes too and YES they watch the Forums for such Complaints, but it depends how much people complaining, if enough they will and have too do some changes to calm people down, anything else is bad for business.
So, no YOU know.
Good Day Sir.
[Edit] and by the way, other than the Update for the Valiants Set i dont think that they will change much more, in other words i gave up hope, like everyone else who was complaining gave up allready so it seems, instead my gues is that people just decided to do what cryptic does, they ignore us we ignore their new ship - as much as it hurts as a Defiant Lover - so time to move on.
Thank you for helping me perfect my signature. That will save me a ton of time in the future, which is wasted when trying to reason with unreasonable persons, entities, shadows...etc. etc. etc. so on and so forth ad nauseum intoinfinityandbeyond!!!!!!!!!!!!!XinfinityXinfinitySquaredacheepacheegoomalacheemymothertoldmetopickthisoneandYOUareNOTit!!!!!!!!!!!
You are Most Welcome mr "iam Right you are Wrong" so if you are done with your "Bashing" and "Flaming" can we go on now or you plan to continue this??
My character Tsin'xing
And thats exactly my Point, they do, because they have to and that was proven often enough, everything else would be "Self Destruction" since they want to earn money of their Product, by "selling" it to their Customers, and if you Ignore your Customers = No Money (or at least way less).
How much or how big such changes are depends on how big the complaints about it are, if just a handfull complain, nothing will happen, if a moderate amount of People complain they will try to find a compromise, but if a Serious amount of People complain and or even start to Rage for a extended Time, than believe it or not THEY WILL Listen and will make the neccesary Adjustments, because they MUST.
If People had not complained about the Valiants 2 Piece Set, than they would not have announced that they will Update it = IT WORKED (even so its unknow what those changes will be) there was also enough Complaints about the rest of the Valiant, cause she just has not enough to offer compared to the other Escorts, those Complaints were not big / long enough to "force" them to make the neccesary Changes.
It is what it is, but in the end they still hurt themselfs since no matter how the sales for the Valiant was, it would have been MUCH better if they had listened, but its over they decided to ignore those People and in exchange those People (or many of them) decided to ignore their offer, bad Business but their choice.
What might help to simplify is to just to consider Taco's statement in the context of modern game design. A dev can spend months or years working on something. Then it's announced to the public through some kind of PR. At that point (when direct feedback is possible) there truly isn't a whole lot that can be done to make big changes prior to or shortly after release. Even with the best will in the world, the time simply does not exist
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I think "rage" is the stuff that most people are most likely to tune out first.
The Devs are definitely willing to listen to feedback, especially so when things are posted to Tribble for live play-testing in the players' hands. But there's a big difference between feedback and complaining/raging. And a lot of that difference comes down to phrasing and presentation - and to be honest, silly signatures such as the line at the bottom of yours don't help.
My character Tsin'xing