Oh I checked, there were a few T5 mixed in but the majority of Defiants I've encountered were indeed T6. Flooded may have been a strong word to use, but I personally have seen plenty around.
And the point of 'Vocal Minority' is that in the vast majority of situations there will always be more people that just pass up saying anything regardless of their opinion, while its often those that feel strongly negative about something that speak up and are usually in the minority.
End of the day Cryptic are the only ones with the hard facts about who is and isn't in the majority, they have the metrics of ship sales and how many captains are flying it. Should the Defiants sales be lower than their predictions/work-return calculations then they will probably make some changes to boost those sales, otherwise like so many other things in STO they'll probably just leave it as is and move onto the next item on their list.
You've never heard of the term 'Vocal Minority' have you.
Despite this according to you being the majority opinion its not stopped T6 Defiants flooding into the game since Thursday, every third federation escort I've seen over the past 2 days has been a Defiant. Amusingly in contrast I've only seen a handful of pilot ships.
This is for the record called anecdotal evidence, only cryptic knows for certain how many have sold and are being flown, the rest of us can only make assumptions based on what we observe, Cryptic are the only ones with the true facts of the numbers.
I don't pay much attention to what's flying around me, but I do watch the Zen market, and the Zen market does not reflect the Escort pack being purchased in bulk. Like last week the price spiked 8% due to the key sale and the new box. It spiked again with the announcement of the Escort pack, but it quickly returned to where it was before announcement.
Despite being on sale for the initial release, people do not seem to be buying it. The demand for Zen has remained consistent. I suspect the only thing keeping it from going any lower is a speculator market.
As I said, Anecdotal Evidence. I'm seeing a good number of them being flown. Highland is seeing none. Its simply a mater of different perspectives and likely playtime and where we chose to play. Most of the ones I'm seeing are in the deep space encounters and red alerts, they may just be grinding ship mastery for the trait for all I know, either way its a sale for cryptic.
I doubt many will disagree sales are lower than people expected when the announcement popped up. most of those that aren't worried about the stats probably bought their zen when that announcement was made, not everyone grinds dil for zen either so the market is not a foolproof indicator. That said as was pointed out earlier in the thread about trend analyses, the exchange not spiking would indicate lower sales than normal.
You've never heard of the term 'Vocal Minority' have you.
Despite this according to you being the majority opinion its not stopped T6 Defiants flooding into the game since Thursday, every third federation escort I've seen over the past 2 days has been a Defiant. Amusingly in contrast I've only seen a handful of pilot ships.
This is for the record called anecdotal evidence, only cryptic knows for certain how many have sold and are being flown, the rest of us can only make assumptions based on what we observe, Cryptic are the only ones with the true facts of the numbers.
T6 Defiants have flooded tha Game huh? Funny that i dont see ANYTHING like that, i have yet too see one of them, in the mirror event i saw 3 Defiants....one Stock T5, one T5U and the other was a Fleet T5U but no T6.....maybe next time you should have a closer look to see what ship that is, or look up the info
Amusingly i see Pilot Ships left right and Center...you sure you play the same Game??
and your "Vocal Minority"....go to side one of this Thread and than one by one see how many are Complaining and how many are Happy.....i can tell you, you here complain everywhere including the other Social sites, with some people who are ok with that here and there......so its Vocal Majority and Silent Minority and not the other Way around.
I suggest you try just speaking for yourself, when posting to these fora. Claiming your opinion is the majority is kinda silly. Some players are happy, some players aren't - but even the ones who aren't will have varying reasons that don't always align with your own.
i give you the same advice that i gave to narthais, look from page one and see how many are unhappy vs the ones that are "ok"....but than again, you should allready know, because whenever someone said something, your answer was there a second later.
"Feds shouldnt be allowed to have Cloak EVER!"Only Romulans and Klingons should allow to have it"because this and because that"if you want cloak Play a Romulan character"!
thats not enforcing your oppinion on others at all huh?? and iam the one who should speak for myself??...yea right...
You've never heard of the term 'Vocal Minority' have you.
Despite this according to you being the majority opinion its not stopped T6 Defiants flooding into the game since Thursday, every third federation escort I've seen over the past 2 days has been a Defiant. Amusingly in contrast I've only seen a handful of pilot ships.
This is for the record called anecdotal evidence, only cryptic knows for certain how many have sold and are being flown, the rest of us can only make assumptions based on what we observe, Cryptic are the only ones with the true facts of the numbers.
I don't pay much attention to what's flying around me, but I do watch the Zen market, and the Zen market does not reflect the Escort pack being purchased in bulk. Like last week the price spiked 8% due to the key sale and the new box. It spiked again with the announcement of the Escort pack, but it quickly returned to where it was before announcement.
Despite being on sale for the initial release, people do not seem to be buying it. The demand for Zen has remained consistent. I suspect the only thing keeping it from going any lower is a speculator market.
of course cryptic is the only one who knows the sales and the Metrics......but the Zen Market is a STRONG indication for how good something new sales or not, like with the Keys example, or when there is a new Ship......and in the case of this New Bundle, the Market stood still, other than 3-4 more Dill per Zen on the announcement and that dropped the moment the ship stats were out....coincidence??? i dont think so
As I said, Anecdotal Evidence. I'm seeing a good number of them being flown. Highland is seeing none. Its simply a mater of different perspectives and likely playtime and where we chose to play. Most of the ones I'm seeing are in the deep space encounters and red alerts, they may just be grinding ship mastery for the trait for all I know, either way its a sale for cryptic.
I doubt many will disagree sales are lower than people expected when the announcement popped up. most of those that aren't worried about the stats probably bought their zen when that announcement was made, not everyone grinds dil for zen either so the market is not a foolproof indicator. That said as was pointed out earlier in the thread about trend analyses, the exchange not spiking would indicate lower sales than normal.
Yes, it is a trend. Last week the Zen market hovered around 230. On the day of the pack's release, it briefly spiked up to 237, but it imploded within a matter of hours. It's hovering at 232 right now and I think the only reason it hasn't gone lower is because people are not sure that it actually will.. They're buying up zen at a price of 231, because they don't think it'll hit 230 or lower over the weekend.
There's a lot of doubt. It's almost unprecedented that a new ship pack not generate a lot of demand. Granted, as I pointed out, people might be fatigued from the new lockbox, but based on historical evidence, the interest for the Escort pack is not there at this time.
according to reddit / borticus Twitter they are working on an update to the 2 Piece set.....i dont think that they are doing this because "so many people are happy" but because they see the massive complaints.
I hope that this update will include the Quad Cannons and a nice buff to its damage (set bonus)
and i STILL hope that they will reconsider the Weapons Layout (5 / 2), one can hope, and we will sett what happens....
Some good news then, here's hoping they add the quad into the set. hell with a little luck the Kor may even benefit from changes like it didn't with the quantum copyNpaste. While the current bonus does at least work for the Kor its still rather weak compared to other set bonuses out there, not going to get my hopes up for that though.
there was a little too much of this "Copy and Paste" without considering the differences of those 3 Ships and Factions....hence all this nonsense with Photon on Defiant, than Fixed to Quantum but messed up the Kor.....and the messed up Set Bonus for the Valiant...and so on.......
And that's the one thing both sides of the debate can agree on, the set bonuses is the defiants biggest weak point, its effectively all but useless, and incomplete to boot.
it never helped the defiants case that the cloak console does nothing but allow it to cloak out of combat, the Kor's borrowed console from the T1 Brel at least has value, its basically OSS that doesn't effect auxiliary (or disable a subsystem on expiry) on a 2 minute cooldown.
He'll im even fine with the dfiant getting a 3 piece and the kor remaining at two. while there are 3 C-store B'rels now the T5 ones 'special console' was the EBC, which amusingly the T5 Tvaro got in addition to a clickable console, go figure.
"Feds shouldnt be allowed to have Cloak EVER!"Only Romulans and Klingons should allow to have it"because this and because that"if you want cloak Play a Romulan character"!
thats not enforcing your oppinion on others at all huh?? and iam the one who should speak for myself??...yea right...
That's not an opinion. So far, that's been a fact. Again, I'm doing that trend analysis thing. I'm not claiming what 'should' or 'should not' be (although as a mainly Romulan player, yeah I'd like battlecloak to stay out of Feds' ships). I'm saying what has been, and what appears to be, the trend.
That's not an opinion. So far, that's been a fact. Again, I'm doing that trend analysis thing. I'm not claiming what 'should' or 'should not' be (although as a mainly Romulan player, yeah I'd like battlecloak to stay out of Feds' ships). I'm saying what has been, and what appears to be, the trend.
People tolerate the cloak console. It might be fun to use, but everyone knows it's not even remotely fair that the ability to cloak requires a console slot. It is what it is, people generally choose to ignore it and move on to better builds and consoles, but if Cryptic is going to keep tying ship bonuses to it, it has to stop.
according to reddit / borticus Twitter they are working on an update to the 2 Piece set.....i dont think that they are doing this because "so many people are happy" but because they see the massive complaints.
I hope that this update will include the Quad Cannons and a nice buff to its damage (set bonus)
and i STILL hope that they will reconsider the Weapons Layout (5 / 2), one can hope, and we will sett what happens....
That may be welcome news. Whether it is depends on what is being changed, and how much for the better. I'm hoping for a battlecloak set bonus for the Valiant, and a switch to pho-torp console for the Kor. That would be a good start. The extra fleet ship console in tactical where it belongs for the Kor would be another good step in the right direction. But this is merely preference. 5/2 seems like a long shot to me, as does pilot maneuvers. But I'm still hoping for a better ship for Fed and KDF.
"Feds shouldnt be allowed to have Cloak EVER!"Only Romulans and Klingons should allow to have it"because this and because that"if you want cloak Play a Romulan character"!
thats not enforcing your oppinion on others at all huh?? and iam the one who should speak for myself??...yea right...
That's not an opinion. So far, that's been a fact. Again, I'm doing that trend analysis thing. I'm not claiming what 'should' or 'should not' be (although as a mainly Romulan player, yeah I'd like battlecloak to stay out of Feds' ships). I'm saying what has been, and what appears to be, the trend.
2 things.
1. Its not Fact but your Oppinion, the Intel Ships showed us that Fed CAN have Integrated Cloak, THAT is Fact (even so its only on the Intel for NOW)
2. While some are asking for Battlecloak, most here were asking for Integrated NON Battle Cloak, like on the Intel Ships so that we dont have to use that Waste of Space Cloak Console, so whats the Problem? Roms STILL can keep their BATTLEcloak.
Roms have the Enhanced Romulan Battlecloak, Klingons have Battlecloak (not all some have normal BUT integrated) so whats the Problem of giving the Fed Side the CHEAPEST of the Cloak BUT Integrated? Youre Rom Chars have still the Supperior Enhanced Battlecloak so i dont get what the fuss is about.
Anyway like i said, while the integrated non Battlecloak would be nice, it is not absolutely neccesary, one can live without since non battle anyway.
For me Personaly it was and IS, the Garbage Set piece (cheap copy paste from kdf/rom over to without thinking about it....) for the Valiant that they will hopefully fix with the announced Update (not officially announce, but by Borticus therefore should be foolproof) it should be ditched completly out of the Set (for the Valiant) and Replaced by a new 2 Piece Set between the New Torp Console and the Quad Cannons, the Set Bonus could / should be a - not to small - boost to the Quads Damage including xx amount of Crtd and Crth added, but thats just an idea.
My second Complain, and i stand to that point is the Weapons Layout, sorry but that little bit of extra Love for such an Iconic Ship that has SUCH a BIG Fanbase should really be, its an Escort a "Tough Little Ship" that is supposed to be Armed to the teeth, so the 5 / 2 Weapons Layout would do Justice to that, those 2 Changes will NOT make the Valiant OP, but will reflect a little bit more what we saw and loved from the Show AND would remove the bitter taste in our mouths when we switch from other Escorts packed with nice Shinys to this one, that has WAY less (or more like nothing)
look, i dont wanna argue with people here all day long, i dont wanna be a troublemaker, iam just a DIE HARD Star Trek Fan that does not want to be Punished for that, because thats the case, Iconic Ships are being treated subpar and are way inferior to all the in game Designs, so everyone who wants to fly his Favourite Ships is being Punished for that......it cant be unreasonable to ask for just a little more so our beloved Hero Ships dont look like Garbage compared to the Cryptic Designs......
Not everything, just something, at least not nothing please, is that so hard to understand?.......
Anyway, still a good sign that they at least listen "a little bit" and going to update the Set....one still has to see how this update will look like of course....
according to reddit / borticus Twitter they are working on an update to the 2 Piece set.....i dont think that they are doing this because "so many people are happy" but because they see the massive complaints.
I hope that this update will include the Quad Cannons and a nice buff to its damage (set bonus)
and i STILL hope that they will reconsider the Weapons Layout (5 / 2), one can hope, and we will sett what happens....
That may be welcome news. Whether it is depends on what is being changed, and how much for the better. I'm hoping for a battlecloak set bonus for the Valiant, and a switch to pho-torp console for the Kor. That would be a good start. The extra fleet ship console in tactical where it belongs for the Kor would be another good step in the right direction. But this is merely preference. 5/2 seems like a long shot to me, as does pilot maneuvers. But I'm still hoping for a better ship for Fed and KDF.
5 / 2 is the long shoot? but Battlecloak not? let me make this clear, if it was for me i would say make it a 3 Piece Set with Battlecloak BUT i definately try to be reasonable, therefore i dont ask for Battlecloak, because that is too much to ask for, same goes for the Pilot Maneuvers since those are Special to the Pilot Ships.
The 5 / 2 Weapons layout however is what the Valiant needs, to not look so Naked compared to every other Escort, if they come up with a good new 2 Piece Set between the New Torp Console and the Quads, that will be allready a good step in the right direction, people who bought the Valiant will be happy, some people who decided not to buy may reconsider, but most People will still not change their Minds cause" NOT enough BANG for the BUCK"
I'll take 5/2 ONLY if Hestia, Phantom, and Alita also get 5/2. If we're still complaining about the subject. It's only "fair" since "5/2 is the new escort meta". Or so says the "majority". And because the Defiant alone doesn't deserve such special treatment when all the others didn't get such special treatment.
Anyway, I've seen an increase in Valiants, Kors, and Malems today (Red Alerts, Fleet Alerts, and some other queues that grant XP pools), so it looks like another homerun for Cryptic's coffers.
I do wish they'd just get to the T6 Patrol Escort already and let us Nadion Bomb harder. It also requires 5/2 since it's the "new escort meta".
Now speaking more realistically, I could see Cryptic caving enough and giving the 2-pc a crappy Federation Battle Cloak bonus. Maybe longer cloak in/out and shields up delay than a regular KDF or Romulan Battle Cloak, and definitely not even an Enhanced Battle Cloak. But it'd at least it would pacify the FED players with a raging hard-on for Battle Cloaking.
Of course, then draw the ire of the KDF and Romulan minority over how Feds are further destroying faction identity. But hey, many of those with raging hard-ons will pay up. Many of them said so in their rants across all the mediums.
Now if only we could just merge the factions into one group from the start so that Feds can use KDF and Romulan ships and Romulans and KDF players can use Fed ships...
THANK GOODNESS! Someone listen to my reasonable and respectful request to look into the set bonus.
I think the most reasonable change we can look foward to at this point is A) the inclusion of the phaser quads into a 3rd pc, B. modify/replace the cooldown reduction, with perhaps a battlecloak or "federation tactical cloak" (maaaaaaaaaaaaybe).
Very thankful and appreciative (tentatively) As the results of their change wont be released until well into next week.
That would be enough to make me a buyer. I guess i get it tonight on good faith that theyll make a favorable change next week.
I'll take 5/2 ONLY if Hestia, Phantom, and Alita also get 5/2. If we're still complaining about the subject. It's only "fair" since "5/2 is the new escort meta". Or so says the "majority". And because the Defiant alone doesn't deserve such special treatment when all the others didn't get such special treatment.
Anyway, I've seen an increase in Valiants, Kors, and Malems today (Red Alerts, Fleet Alerts, and some other queues that grant XP pools), so it looks like another homerun for Cryptic's coffers.
I do wish they'd just get to the T6 Patrol Escort already and let us Nadion Bomb harder. It also requires 5/2 since it's the "new escort meta".
Now speaking more realistically, I could see Cryptic caving enough and giving the 2-pc a crappy Federation Battle Cloak bonus. Maybe longer cloak in/out and shields up delay than a regular KDF or Romulan Battle Cloak, and definitely not even an Enhanced Battle Cloak. But it'd at least it would pacify the FED players with a raging hard-on for Battle Cloaking.
Of course, then draw the ire of the KDF and Romulan minority over how Feds are further destroying faction identity. But hey, many of those with raging hard-ons will pay up. Many of them said so in their rants across all the mediums.
Now if only we could just merge the factions into one group from the start so that Feds can use KDF and Romulan ships and Romulans and KDF players can use Fed ships...
just when things started to calm "a little bit" someone else has to "Troll" of course......
Hestia has MVAM, so 2 Free Pets (no matter how good or bad pets are) Phantom.....you really use that as an example???? it has COM Level Intel Seat, Gather Intel Abilitys and Integrated Cloak, so again "TROLL" and the Alita has a Hangar Bay and a not too bad Console.......WHAT has the Valiant compared to that? i tell ya it has NOTHING, the Torp Console could be Fun, but a Gimmicky Universal Console is no way near cutting it.
You can have your Oppinion, but please spare us with trolling.
according to reddit / borticus Twitter they are working on an update to the 2 Piece set.....i dont think that they are doing this because "so many people are happy" but because they see the massive complaints.
I hope that this update will include the Quad Cannons and a nice buff to its damage (set bonus)
and i STILL hope that they will reconsider the Weapons Layout (5 / 2), one can hope, and we will sett what happens....
That may be welcome news. Whether it is depends on what is being changed, and how much for the better. I'm hoping for a battlecloak set bonus for the Valiant, and a switch to pho-torp console for the Kor. That would be a good start. The extra fleet ship console in tactical where it belongs for the Kor would be another good step in the right direction. But this is merely preference. 5/2 seems like a long shot to me, as does pilot maneuvers. But I'm still hoping for a better ship for Fed and KDF.
5 / 2 is the long shoot? but Battlecloak not? let me make this clear, if it was for me i would say make it a 3 Piece Set with Battlecloak BUT i definately try to be reasonable, therefore i dont ask for Battlecloak, because that is too much to ask for, same goes for the Pilot Maneuvers since those are Special to the Pilot Ships.
The 5 / 2 Weapons layout however is what the Valiant needs, to not look so Naked compared to every other Escort, if they come up with a good new 2 Piece Set between the New Torp Console and the Quads, that will be allready a good step in the right direction, people who bought the Valiant will be happy, some people who decided not to buy may reconsider, but most People will still not change their Minds cause" NOT enough BANG for the BUCK"
An automatic, non console, battlecloak actually does seem less likely. Moreover given the inferior stats the KDF/Roms have to pay for their cloaks, it's just not reasonable. MOST of the KDF ships particularly at T5 on up is in fact NOT battlecloak at all and have to wait and fight it out and some time afterward until they can cloak.
What I find less unlikely is a set bonus that would make the standard console cloak into a battlecloak.
Is there anyone who pushing previous versions aside WOULDN'T want a 5/2 set up? But previous versions for some reason dictate what the new versions are going to be. Pilot ships had no previous version so they got the 5/2 clean as a whistle. I can tell you that would tip the scales in Cryptics favor where spending zen is concerned if they did. I won't etch it in stone but I wouldn't bet on that change happening.
An automatic, non console, battlecloak actually does seem less likely. Moreover given the inferior stats the KDF/Roms have to pay for their cloaks, it's just not reasonable. MOST of the KDF ships particularly at T5 on up is in fact NOT battlecloak at all and have to wait and fight it out and some time afterward until they can cloak.
I'm not really seeing weaker stats as a result of battlecloaks. Rom ships are built around their singularity cores, and Klingon ships are generally lighter and more agile, but they aren't actually giving anything up for their cloaking devices.
Mr. Highlandrise and others, You and I have a pact not to agrue but to agree to disagree. But i just appealing to you on a human level, can you please cool off here and take a break from the petty bickering. How about we all agree to disagree. I dont even know what side your on, but im not taking sides, but hearts and minds wont be changed here.
We should consider the news for a set change a victory, small or meaningless to some, awesome and meaningfull to others incl myself.
Lets all get some air and a cup of water and remind our loved ones we love them.
Mr. Highlandrise and others,
You and I have a pact not to agrue but to agree to disagree. But i just appealing to you on a human level, can you please cool off here and take a break from the petty bickering. How about we all agree to disagree. I dont even know what side your on, but im not taking sides, but hearts and minds wont be changed here.
We should consider the news for a set change a victory, small or meaningless to some, awesome and meaningfull to others incl myself.
Lets all get some air and a cup of water and remind our loved ones we love them.
it was allready calming down until "someone" decided to directly troll me...but anway, like i said i really dont want to argue here with everyone the whole day. And Victory.....some may see it that way, some may not, its not even clear what this change will be, it couls be something better, but it also could be something as bad as what we have now, that we have too see.
But for me Personaly, i lost Interest the moment i saw the Weapons layout, for those who have the Valiant or Planing to get it, i hope its something good, but i dont "downgrade" my main tactical out of his 5 / 2 Kumari (Charal T5U) into a inferior 4 / 3 Ship...even so that my heart is bleeding, since i was waiting for a T6 Defiant since the moment they started to toll out T6 Ships....for me the announcement was a happy, and the release was a sad day..well C’est la vie.....
I'm not really seeing weaker stats as a result of battlecloaks. Rom ships are built around their singularity cores, and Klingon ships are generally lighter and more agile, but they aren't actually giving anything up for their cloaking devices.
The original plan for the cloak was that kdf ships had a lower shield mod to compensate for having it, this was only standard cloak mind you which is what the majority of the klingon built ships have. he battle cloak originated on the BoP and combined with full universal boff seating and exceptional manouverability it paid a heavy enough price to make it a whole other catagory of ship compared to escorts/raptors. The T5 B'rel ended up paying an even higher price in hull points to get the Enhanced Battle Cloak. Even today outside of the BoP line only two ship types in the KDF have a battle cloak. The veteran destroyer, a very tanky ship for the escort range, and the Qib Intel cruiser, otherwise known as 'the pancake ships thats even flatter than the phantom is'
The Romulans are a whole other story, supposedly they pay for the battle cloak by having lower hulls and power levels on the singularity core, the cores power levels are really compensation for the powers they get and the lower hull on average might be a trade off for the cloak. That said romulan/reman captains can also buff the cloak to very high levels, saboteur boff trait lowers cloak recharge time considerably more than the Kor/Defiant 2P bonus, reman infiltrator can push the ambush time to 10 seconds at standard 15 at superiour and it teamed with a reman captain it stacks up to 21 seconds, at this point the cloak cools down in 10 seconds. KDF also only get 15% damage bonus on standard cloak, 25% on battle cloaks, romulans get up to 45% when bof traits are added.bare in mind many of these cloak enhancing traits come on romulan officers with the Superior Officer trait, the tac/intel reman in the delta operations back has both superior infiltrator and superior romulan operative.
Ao in effect romulans don't really pay anything for their superior battle cloak while KDF cloaking ships are stuck with the penalties originally built into their design, penalties which admittedly in the current meta are not overly significant.
little off topic but i figured it was worth explaining.
just when things started to calm "a little bit" someone else has to "Troll" of course......
Hestia has MVAM, so 2 Free Pets (no matter how good or bad pets are) Phantom.....you really use that as an example???? it has COM Level Intel Seat, Gather Intel Abilitys and Integrated Cloak, so again "TROLL" and the Alita has a Hangar Bay and a not too bad Console.......WHAT has the Valiant compared to that? i tell ya it has NOTHING, the Torp Console could be Fun, but a Gimmicky Universal Console is no way near cutting it.
You can have your Oppinion, but please spare us with trolling.
I'm not trolling. If that's the majority opinion, then it's only fair to apply it to all existing T6 escorts and future escorts. It's also only fair to those who've invested in those T6 escorts that were also only modest steps up from their T5 version, just like the Valiant is a modest step up from the T5 version.
Also, Hestia requires the MVAM console, which requires a separate purchase that not everyone made. The Hestia's own console is somewhat useless without the MVAM console, just like the T5 C-Store Defiant is with just a Cloak console.
Alita's console is only marginally better, but like the Hestia's console, still requires 5km or less range in order to be of any use. And again, not everyone has invested in the Armitage or the Akira for their more useful point-defense consoles. Alita gets pets sure, but they're just as useless with the pet nerf and cost a bit to fork out for Elite pets, which are the only remotely useful type of pets that aren't Frigates.
So again, Defiant isn't the special snowflake that alone deserves a 5/2 layout when the other two have gimmicks that sure, are better than the Defiant's own gimmicks, but still require the consoles that not everyone has invested in for one reason or another. In fact, Alita has to endure a 3-pc set to get any real decent set bonuses, whereas Hestia and Valiant only require 2 (assuming the Valiant 2-pc is decent enough after alteration).
Phantom, along with Faeht, also deserve 5/2. If that's the new standard, they both deserve it as well. Why get a Phantom when you have the Eclipse, which has 4/4 rather than 4/3 and more durability? Phantom is considered pretty ugly out of the 3, so 5/2 would only benefit Cryptic (more sales) and the players (more 5/2 goodness). The stubborn holdouts would have Defiant, the Pilot ships, Hestia, and the Alita to turn to instead, leaving the Phantom or Eclipse for the min/maxers.
And I'm not just talking about the Fed side either. T6 ships like the Faeht, Kor, Mat'ha, Qa'Tel, and Jhu'ael also deserve a 5/2; the KDF and Romulan side moreso since they suffer from a lack of ships overall and need the aggressive firepower more than the Feds do with their sheer variety of ships anyway.
Then we'll leave 4/3 for Destroyers-type ships. Again, this results in a net benefit for everyone who owns a T6 Escort/Raider/Raptor/Light or Regular Warbird, and a net boost to Cryptic's coffers over the greater advantage of the ships.
So if Valiant gets 5/2, so should all the other T6 Escorts/Raiders/Raptors/Light and Normal Warbirds.
I honestly with the track record as it is how possibly someone is going to defend that high horse its been beaten enough as it is. I agree with the cryptic loving fan bois though. I mean how could you possibly think that a T6 ship would be any better than your T5 obsolete ship. The thought is so beyond anything anyone could possibly rationally expect.
Personally I would have been upset if all the b'rels bugs were not carried over to the T6 b'rel it would break the tradition we have with Cryptic with the KDF. I mean where is our trailer of our new T6 b'rel blowing up a planet? Come on guys get your act together!
Funy and Sad at the same time, cause very True, the moment you say but but...please a little bit more because you basicaly dont get anything, the White Knights jump up and say"NOOOOOOOOOO How could you ask for such a thing?! Its unreasonable, its Impossible, the T5s were TRASH, so the T6s also have to be TRASH, because its Tradition!
How could you even think of such a think?! See all the T6s upgrades were nothing but a T6 Sticker on them, so of COURSE they have to do the same on the Valiant, so how dare you to expect anything other than this?! If you want Dodging 5 / 2 weapon slot GET THE Pilot Ships! if you want Integrated Cloak get the Intel Ships! Or better PLAY on the Romulan Side! cause NO ONE ELSE should EVAAAA be allowed to get Integrated Cloak, cause REASONS REASONS REASONS BLA BLA, Sellfishnes Overload x100000.
You Get what you Pay for, so pay your 30Dollar and get NOTHING, and LIKE IT, cause we like it too, cause we like paying money for nothing so you should like it too!
We are te Holy Whiteknights, and we will NOT allow anyone to criticize anything in this Game, because everything is Perfect, so be quiet and like it..............
well, thats just a smal part of what is being thrown at you the moment you open your mouth and dare to say *BUT*.....
I really was excited to get the Cross Faction Bundle mainly for the Defiant / Valiant, and also the Sao Paulo for the Costume and the Quad....thankfully Cryptic loves us so much, that they gave me every reason to not buy any of those, well thank you very much
There are some underlining issues though that bring it where we are today with these raiding type ships with no type of raiding content in this game at all. Pretty much though I'm just gonna let my accounts collect dust until the day either comes where they start becoming professional and do a professional job or just let this game go completely and remember its days when it had potential and atleast give it that respect.
There just is a line where you do the gear grind add levels do what bankrupt competitors do so you can join them and they crossed that line because they had no vision if they were just going to copy what all the other failures were doing.
Most People here say give us SOMETHING not EVERYTHING, what we got however was NOTHING, yet still many People here are defending this and call us "Fanboys"Unreasonable"dunderheads" and so on and so on..............
Snipping because that bit alone makes my point.
You'll find most of the more reasonable people are agreeing that the set bonus is worthless mate, and for the record its not all that useful on the Kor either, declaook ambush only lasts long enough to get one volley off afterall, the console that is linked on the Kor is at least more useful than the defiants cloak. (The torpedo console is exceptional incidentally even if it looks odd, charge time is a bit long though)
You're also putting plenty of people off with your highly aggressive and mocking tone. You actually sound like the spoilt rich kid that got chocolate ice cream when that's what he was told he was getting, thing is he wanted chocolate chip, so he kicks up a stink to make everyone else miserable because he didn't get what he wanted regardless of any logical reasoning that may or may not support he.
The only correction is that the T5 ones were beneath what you would come to expect from a defiant or b'rel. The functionality of these handicaps these ships have were never in the shows or movies they were just added in for game mechanic purposes which they keep sticking with even though they may have potential for creativity they won't put any to use with these ships.
I'll say this I love star trek but always liked the klingon empire but as a federation fan of it all because we all are or we wouldn't be here in the first place the standard cloak is completely useless and the whole thing needs to be reworked and that is what the true problem is and why everyone is so pissed. Heck its even one of the reasons I quickly started making KDF characters because I liked the battle cloak but had to play a bop to do it and I was like cool I'll do that then and this is way before the dilithium days started.
Then get on the topic if the design of these 3 ships went up to par of what they represented in the franchise you run into another problem. There is no content designed for the role of these ships. They are roughly hit and run or raiding type ships that have nothing to raid. In most games today with dynamic event systems in place the actions you take shape what is happening in the game and the developers fill in the blanks with expansions/updates. This game just has kill x amount of x in 5 minutes dps race or kill x amount of x and then you get your dilithium and rep points the end. The only real future for this game the way they want to run things is first stop holding back on stuff that can be done that is fun but just is too lazy to do standard cloak begone and commence on an event system with that type of system used to scale those events like with the temporal thing done with when they added in those talaxians heh can't remember the name of what it was called was just too boring after 2 weeks there really was no interaction i could feel with immersion to keep it going.
Lastly a lot of all of this comes from those lockboxes which I haven't been interested in any of them in well over a year and a half now. The things I like to play and the way I want to play they don't do anything for me. This is mostly the cause of why you have these hero gimped ships and forced upon to use those if you want some kind of immersion as close as you can get to it with the made up ships that you'd never see anyone in trek using as a posting(maybe a short term mission but not ever a posting). The starting point on all this is that is they need a compromise on this front which I would view for lockbox purposes because that is their main line of profits/money making. So they need to put out quality canon ships and then for their lockboxes they should put it where you get your really low % drop becauses rangesus loves you this you know for the holodeck and replicator told you so. It should give the choice of the ship or some tech that you can use to modify a canon ship. So in all canon ships and lockbox ships are high and mighty filled with Trek and both thing to blow money on.
As well there is no rule that when you get pissed off that you have to be a rich kid :P
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen?
Actually the Intrepid and Galaxy had markedly poor showings throughout TNG and Voyager. In particular, I've been watching episodes of Voyager lately, and I'm not even exaggerating when the show can't go an episode without the threat of a warpcore breach. The Defiant on the other hand is pretty consistent as a "tough little ship" that gives as good as it gets.
Yes, but the Galaxy (Ent-D) and Intrepid (Voyager) also had "plot armour", very much like the Defiant did..the biggest instance of this, IMO, is in the Year of Hell where Voyager was under constant attack(?) and the crew still managed to survive long enough to form an alliance. We didn't see much combat in TNG, thanks in part to the writing and Picard's diplomacy.
5/2 weps, Pilot maneuvers, that's all unreasonable.
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Someone want to walk me through this?
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
Let's face it, since Cryptic introduced the 5/2 laoyout, why should any Escort not use it?
But that's not how it worked out. Cryptic seems to think 4/3 and 5/2 are both reasonable variations for Escorts. And they also seem to think 5/1 and 4/2 are viable variations for Raiders.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
according to reddit / borticus Twitter they are working on an update to the 2 Piece set.....i dont think that they are doing this because "so many people are happy" but because they see the massive complaints.
I hope that this update will include the Quad Cannons and a nice buff to its damage (set bonus)
and i STILL hope that they will reconsider the Weapons Layout (5 / 2), one can hope, and we will sett what happens....
That may be welcome news. Whether it is depends on what is being changed, and how much for the better. I'm hoping for a battlecloak set bonus for the Valiant, and a switch to pho-torp console for the Kor. That would be a good start. The extra fleet ship console in tactical where it belongs for the Kor would be another good step in the right direction. But this is merely preference. 5/2 seems like a long shot to me, as does pilot maneuvers. But I'm still hoping for a better ship for Fed and KDF.
5 / 2 is the long shoot? but Battlecloak not? let me make this clear, if it was for me i would say make it a 3 Piece Set with Battlecloak BUT i definately try to be reasonable, therefore i dont ask for Battlecloak, because that is too much to ask for, same goes for the Pilot Maneuvers since those are Special to the Pilot Ships.
The 5 / 2 Weapons layout however is what the Valiant needs, to not look so Naked compared to every other Escort, if they come up with a good new 2 Piece Set between the New Torp Console and the Quads, that will be allready a good step in the right direction, people who bought the Valiant will be happy, some people who decided not to buy may reconsider, but most People will still not change their Minds cause" NOT enough BANG for the BUCK"
A battle cloak or Pilot Maneuvers or something new altogether, that would make the ship interesting and (semi-?)unique. A 5/2 layout, however, is not what the Valiant needs. There's plenty of other 5/2 escorts, and there's plenty of other 4/3 escorts - and, if I remember correctly, the Phantom manages to be hailed as one of the better C-Store escorts with a 'naked' 4/3 layout.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Comments
And the point of 'Vocal Minority' is that in the vast majority of situations there will always be more people that just pass up saying anything regardless of their opinion, while its often those that feel strongly negative about something that speak up and are usually in the minority.
End of the day Cryptic are the only ones with the hard facts about who is and isn't in the majority, they have the metrics of ship sales and how many captains are flying it. Should the Defiants sales be lower than their predictions/work-return calculations then they will probably make some changes to boost those sales, otherwise like so many other things in STO they'll probably just leave it as is and move onto the next item on their list.
I don't pay much attention to what's flying around me, but I do watch the Zen market, and the Zen market does not reflect the Escort pack being purchased in bulk. Like last week the price spiked 8% due to the key sale and the new box. It spiked again with the announcement of the Escort pack, but it quickly returned to where it was before announcement.
Despite being on sale for the initial release, people do not seem to be buying it. The demand for Zen has remained consistent. I suspect the only thing keeping it from going any lower is a speculator market.
I doubt many will disagree sales are lower than people expected when the announcement popped up. most of those that aren't worried about the stats probably bought their zen when that announcement was made, not everyone grinds dil for zen either so the market is not a foolproof indicator. That said as was pointed out earlier in the thread about trend analyses, the exchange not spiking would indicate lower sales than normal.
i give you the same advice that i gave to narthais, look from page one and see how many are unhappy vs the ones that are "ok"....but than again, you should allready know, because whenever someone said something, your answer was there a second later.
"Feds shouldnt be allowed to have Cloak EVER!"Only Romulans and Klingons should allow to have it"because this and because that"if you want cloak Play a Romulan character"!
thats not enforcing your oppinion on others at all huh?? and iam the one who should speak for myself??...yea right...
of course cryptic is the only one who knows the sales and the Metrics......but the Zen Market is a STRONG indication for how good something new sales or not, like with the Keys example, or when there is a new Ship......and in the case of this New Bundle, the Market stood still, other than 3-4 more Dill per Zen on the announcement and that dropped the moment the ship stats were out....coincidence??? i dont think so
Yes, it is a trend. Last week the Zen market hovered around 230. On the day of the pack's release, it briefly spiked up to 237, but it imploded within a matter of hours. It's hovering at 232 right now and I think the only reason it hasn't gone lower is because people are not sure that it actually will.. They're buying up zen at a price of 231, because they don't think it'll hit 230 or lower over the weekend.
There's a lot of doubt. It's almost unprecedented that a new ship pack not generate a lot of demand. Granted, as I pointed out, people might be fatigued from the new lockbox, but based on historical evidence, the interest for the Escort pack is not there at this time.
I hope that this update will include the Quad Cannons and a nice buff to its damage (set bonus)
and i STILL hope that they will reconsider the Weapons Layout (5 / 2), one can hope, and we will sett what happens....
https://reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3ro28g/can_a_dev_explain_the_valiant_2pc_set_bonus/
https://twitter.com/BorticusCryptic
Until I get my shipyard to T5 that is.
Currently at 2 so it'll take awhile, all that time and Cryptic is missing out on all that $$$$$.
They should make C-Store shipyard level tokens for Casual Players that make up the majority of players.
I should not have to join another fleet just so I can buy a complete ship.
it never helped the defiants case that the cloak console does nothing but allow it to cloak out of combat, the Kor's borrowed console from the T1 Brel at least has value, its basically OSS that doesn't effect auxiliary (or disable a subsystem on expiry) on a 2 minute cooldown.
He'll im even fine with the dfiant getting a 3 piece and the kor remaining at two. while there are 3 C-store B'rels now the T5 ones 'special console' was the EBC, which amusingly the T5 Tvaro got in addition to a clickable console, go figure.
That's not an opinion. So far, that's been a fact. Again, I'm doing that trend analysis thing. I'm not claiming what 'should' or 'should not' be (although as a mainly Romulan player, yeah I'd like battlecloak to stay out of Feds' ships). I'm saying what has been, and what appears to be, the trend.
People tolerate the cloak console. It might be fun to use, but everyone knows it's not even remotely fair that the ability to cloak requires a console slot. It is what it is, people generally choose to ignore it and move on to better builds and consoles, but if Cryptic is going to keep tying ship bonuses to it, it has to stop.
That may be welcome news. Whether it is depends on what is being changed, and how much for the better. I'm hoping for a battlecloak set bonus for the Valiant, and a switch to pho-torp console for the Kor. That would be a good start. The extra fleet ship console in tactical where it belongs for the Kor would be another good step in the right direction. But this is merely preference. 5/2 seems like a long shot to me, as does pilot maneuvers. But I'm still hoping for a better ship for Fed and KDF.
2 things.
1. Its not Fact but your Oppinion, the Intel Ships showed us that Fed CAN have Integrated Cloak, THAT is Fact (even so its only on the Intel for NOW)
2. While some are asking for Battlecloak, most here were asking for Integrated NON Battle Cloak, like on the Intel Ships so that we dont have to use that Waste of Space Cloak Console, so whats the Problem? Roms STILL can keep their BATTLEcloak.
Roms have the Enhanced Romulan Battlecloak, Klingons have Battlecloak (not all some have normal BUT integrated) so whats the Problem of giving the Fed Side the CHEAPEST of the Cloak BUT Integrated? Youre Rom Chars have still the Supperior Enhanced Battlecloak so i dont get what the fuss is about.
Anyway like i said, while the integrated non Battlecloak would be nice, it is not absolutely neccesary, one can live without since non battle anyway.
For me Personaly it was and IS, the Garbage Set piece (cheap copy paste from kdf/rom over to without thinking about it....) for the Valiant that they will hopefully fix with the announced Update (not officially announce, but by Borticus therefore should be foolproof) it should be ditched completly out of the Set (for the Valiant) and Replaced by a new 2 Piece Set between the New Torp Console and the Quad Cannons, the Set Bonus could / should be a - not to small - boost to the Quads Damage including xx amount of Crtd and Crth added, but thats just an idea.
My second Complain, and i stand to that point is the Weapons Layout, sorry but that little bit of extra Love for such an Iconic Ship that has SUCH a BIG Fanbase should really be, its an Escort a "Tough Little Ship" that is supposed to be Armed to the teeth, so the 5 / 2 Weapons Layout would do Justice to that, those 2 Changes will NOT make the Valiant OP, but will reflect a little bit more what we saw and loved from the Show AND would remove the bitter taste in our mouths when we switch from other Escorts packed with nice Shinys to this one, that has WAY less (or more like nothing)
look, i dont wanna argue with people here all day long, i dont wanna be a troublemaker, iam just a DIE HARD Star Trek Fan that does not want to be Punished for that, because thats the case, Iconic Ships are being treated subpar and are way inferior to all the in game Designs, so everyone who wants to fly his Favourite Ships is being Punished for that......it cant be unreasonable to ask for just a little more so our beloved Hero Ships dont look like Garbage compared to the Cryptic Designs......
Not everything, just something, at least not nothing please, is that so hard to understand?.......
Anyway, still a good sign that they at least listen "a little bit" and going to update the Set....one still has to see how this update will look like of course....
5 / 2 is the long shoot? but Battlecloak not? let me make this clear, if it was for me i would say make it a 3 Piece Set with Battlecloak BUT i definately try to be reasonable, therefore i dont ask for Battlecloak, because that is too much to ask for, same goes for the Pilot Maneuvers since those are Special to the Pilot Ships.
The 5 / 2 Weapons layout however is what the Valiant needs, to not look so Naked compared to every other Escort, if they come up with a good new 2 Piece Set between the New Torp Console and the Quads, that will be allready a good step in the right direction, people who bought the Valiant will be happy, some people who decided not to buy may reconsider, but most People will still not change their Minds cause" NOT enough BANG for the BUCK"
Anyway, I've seen an increase in Valiants, Kors, and Malems today (Red Alerts, Fleet Alerts, and some other queues that grant XP pools), so it looks like another homerun for Cryptic's coffers.
I do wish they'd just get to the T6 Patrol Escort already and let us Nadion Bomb harder. It also requires 5/2 since it's the "new escort meta".
Now speaking more realistically, I could see Cryptic caving enough and giving the 2-pc a crappy Federation Battle Cloak bonus. Maybe longer cloak in/out and shields up delay than a regular KDF or Romulan Battle Cloak, and definitely not even an Enhanced Battle Cloak. But it'd at least it would pacify the FED players with a raging hard-on for Battle Cloaking.
Of course, then draw the ire of the KDF and Romulan minority over how Feds are further destroying faction identity. But hey, many of those with raging hard-ons will pay up. Many of them said so in their rants across all the mediums.
Now if only we could just merge the factions into one group from the start so that Feds can use KDF and Romulan ships and Romulans and KDF players can use Fed ships...
I think the most reasonable change we can look foward to at this point is A) the inclusion of the phaser quads into a 3rd pc, B. modify/replace the cooldown reduction, with perhaps a battlecloak or "federation tactical cloak" (maaaaaaaaaaaaybe).
Very thankful and appreciative (tentatively)
As the results of their change wont be released until well into next week.
That would be enough to make me a buyer. I guess i get it tonight on good faith that theyll make a favorable change next week.
just when things started to calm "a little bit" someone else has to "Troll" of course......
Hestia has MVAM, so 2 Free Pets (no matter how good or bad pets are) Phantom.....you really use that as an example???? it has COM Level Intel Seat, Gather Intel Abilitys and Integrated Cloak, so again "TROLL" and the Alita has a Hangar Bay and a not too bad Console.......WHAT has the Valiant compared to that? i tell ya it has NOTHING, the Torp Console could be Fun, but a Gimmicky Universal Console is no way near cutting it.
You can have your Oppinion, but please spare us with trolling.
An automatic, non console, battlecloak actually does seem less likely. Moreover given the inferior stats the KDF/Roms have to pay for their cloaks, it's just not reasonable. MOST of the KDF ships particularly at T5 on up is in fact NOT battlecloak at all and have to wait and fight it out and some time afterward until they can cloak.
What I find less unlikely is a set bonus that would make the standard console cloak into a battlecloak.
Is there anyone who pushing previous versions aside WOULDN'T want a 5/2 set up? But previous versions for some reason dictate what the new versions are going to be. Pilot ships had no previous version so they got the 5/2 clean as a whistle. I can tell you that would tip the scales in Cryptics favor where spending zen is concerned if they did. I won't etch it in stone but I wouldn't bet on that change happening.
I'm not really seeing weaker stats as a result of battlecloaks. Rom ships are built around their singularity cores, and Klingon ships are generally lighter and more agile, but they aren't actually giving anything up for their cloaking devices.
You and I have a pact not to agrue but to agree to disagree. But i just appealing to you on a human level, can you please cool off here and take a break from the petty bickering. How about we all agree to disagree. I dont even know what side your on, but im not taking sides, but hearts and minds wont be changed here.
We should consider the news for a set change a victory, small or meaningless to some, awesome and meaningfull to others incl myself.
Lets all get some air and a cup of water and remind our loved ones we love them.
it was allready calming down until "someone" decided to directly troll me...but anway, like i said i really dont want to argue here with everyone the whole day. And Victory.....some may see it that way, some may not, its not even clear what this change will be, it couls be something better, but it also could be something as bad as what we have now, that we have too see.
But for me Personaly, i lost Interest the moment i saw the Weapons layout, for those who have the Valiant or Planing to get it, i hope its something good, but i dont "downgrade" my main tactical out of his 5 / 2 Kumari (Charal T5U) into a inferior 4 / 3 Ship...even so that my heart is bleeding, since i was waiting for a T6 Defiant since the moment they started to toll out T6 Ships....for me the announcement was a happy, and the release was a sad day..well C’est la vie.....
The original plan for the cloak was that kdf ships had a lower shield mod to compensate for having it, this was only standard cloak mind you which is what the majority of the klingon built ships have. he battle cloak originated on the BoP and combined with full universal boff seating and exceptional manouverability it paid a heavy enough price to make it a whole other catagory of ship compared to escorts/raptors. The T5 B'rel ended up paying an even higher price in hull points to get the Enhanced Battle Cloak. Even today outside of the BoP line only two ship types in the KDF have a battle cloak. The veteran destroyer, a very tanky ship for the escort range, and the Qib Intel cruiser, otherwise known as 'the pancake ships thats even flatter than the phantom is'
The Romulans are a whole other story, supposedly they pay for the battle cloak by having lower hulls and power levels on the singularity core, the cores power levels are really compensation for the powers they get and the lower hull on average might be a trade off for the cloak. That said romulan/reman captains can also buff the cloak to very high levels, saboteur boff trait lowers cloak recharge time considerably more than the Kor/Defiant 2P bonus, reman infiltrator can push the ambush time to 10 seconds at standard 15 at superiour and it teamed with a reman captain it stacks up to 21 seconds, at this point the cloak cools down in 10 seconds. KDF also only get 15% damage bonus on standard cloak, 25% on battle cloaks, romulans get up to 45% when bof traits are added.bare in mind many of these cloak enhancing traits come on romulan officers with the Superior Officer trait, the tac/intel reman in the delta operations back has both superior infiltrator and superior romulan operative.
Ao in effect romulans don't really pay anything for their superior battle cloak while KDF cloaking ships are stuck with the penalties originally built into their design, penalties which admittedly in the current meta are not overly significant.
little off topic but i figured it was worth explaining.
I'm not trolling. If that's the majority opinion, then it's only fair to apply it to all existing T6 escorts and future escorts. It's also only fair to those who've invested in those T6 escorts that were also only modest steps up from their T5 version, just like the Valiant is a modest step up from the T5 version.
Also, Hestia requires the MVAM console, which requires a separate purchase that not everyone made. The Hestia's own console is somewhat useless without the MVAM console, just like the T5 C-Store Defiant is with just a Cloak console.
Alita's console is only marginally better, but like the Hestia's console, still requires 5km or less range in order to be of any use. And again, not everyone has invested in the Armitage or the Akira for their more useful point-defense consoles. Alita gets pets sure, but they're just as useless with the pet nerf and cost a bit to fork out for Elite pets, which are the only remotely useful type of pets that aren't Frigates.
So again, Defiant isn't the special snowflake that alone deserves a 5/2 layout when the other two have gimmicks that sure, are better than the Defiant's own gimmicks, but still require the consoles that not everyone has invested in for one reason or another. In fact, Alita has to endure a 3-pc set to get any real decent set bonuses, whereas Hestia and Valiant only require 2 (assuming the Valiant 2-pc is decent enough after alteration).
Phantom, along with Faeht, also deserve 5/2. If that's the new standard, they both deserve it as well. Why get a Phantom when you have the Eclipse, which has 4/4 rather than 4/3 and more durability? Phantom is considered pretty ugly out of the 3, so 5/2 would only benefit Cryptic (more sales) and the players (more 5/2 goodness). The stubborn holdouts would have Defiant, the Pilot ships, Hestia, and the Alita to turn to instead, leaving the Phantom or Eclipse for the min/maxers.
And I'm not just talking about the Fed side either. T6 ships like the Faeht, Kor, Mat'ha, Qa'Tel, and Jhu'ael also deserve a 5/2; the KDF and Romulan side moreso since they suffer from a lack of ships overall and need the aggressive firepower more than the Feds do with their sheer variety of ships anyway.
Then we'll leave 4/3 for Destroyers-type ships. Again, this results in a net benefit for everyone who owns a T6 Escort/Raider/Raptor/Light or Regular Warbird, and a net boost to Cryptic's coffers over the greater advantage of the ships.
So if Valiant gets 5/2, so should all the other T6 Escorts/Raiders/Raptors/Light and Normal Warbirds.
There are some underlining issues though that bring it where we are today with these raiding type ships with no type of raiding content in this game at all. Pretty much though I'm just gonna let my accounts collect dust until the day either comes where they start becoming professional and do a professional job or just let this game go completely and remember its days when it had potential and atleast give it that respect.
There just is a line where you do the gear grind add levels do what bankrupt competitors do so you can join them and they crossed that line because they had no vision if they were just going to copy what all the other failures were doing.
The only correction is that the T5 ones were beneath what you would come to expect from a defiant or b'rel. The functionality of these handicaps these ships have were never in the shows or movies they were just added in for game mechanic purposes which they keep sticking with even though they may have potential for creativity they won't put any to use with these ships.
I'll say this I love star trek but always liked the klingon empire but as a federation fan of it all because we all are or we wouldn't be here in the first place the standard cloak is completely useless and the whole thing needs to be reworked and that is what the true problem is and why everyone is so pissed. Heck its even one of the reasons I quickly started making KDF characters because I liked the battle cloak but had to play a bop to do it and I was like cool I'll do that then and this is way before the dilithium days started.
Then get on the topic if the design of these 3 ships went up to par of what they represented in the franchise you run into another problem. There is no content designed for the role of these ships. They are roughly hit and run or raiding type ships that have nothing to raid. In most games today with dynamic event systems in place the actions you take shape what is happening in the game and the developers fill in the blanks with expansions/updates. This game just has kill x amount of x in 5 minutes dps race or kill x amount of x and then you get your dilithium and rep points the end. The only real future for this game the way they want to run things is first stop holding back on stuff that can be done that is fun but just is too lazy to do standard cloak begone and commence on an event system with that type of system used to scale those events like with the temporal thing done with when they added in those talaxians heh can't remember the name of what it was called was just too boring after 2 weeks there really was no interaction i could feel with immersion to keep it going.
Lastly a lot of all of this comes from those lockboxes which I haven't been interested in any of them in well over a year and a half now. The things I like to play and the way I want to play they don't do anything for me. This is mostly the cause of why you have these hero gimped ships and forced upon to use those if you want some kind of immersion as close as you can get to it with the made up ships that you'd never see anyone in trek using as a posting(maybe a short term mission but not ever a posting). The starting point on all this is that is they need a compromise on this front which I would view for lockbox purposes because that is their main line of profits/money making. So they need to put out quality canon ships and then for their lockboxes they should put it where you get your really low % drop becauses rangesus loves you this you know for the holodeck and replicator told you so. It should give the choice of the ship or some tech that you can use to modify a canon ship. So in all canon ships and lockbox ships are high and mighty filled with Trek and both thing to blow money on.
As well there is no rule that when you get pissed off that you have to be a rich kid :P
Let's face it, since Cryptic introduced the 5/2 laoyout, why should any Escort not use it?
But that's not how it worked out. Cryptic seems to think 4/3 and 5/2 are both reasonable variations for Escorts. And they also seem to think 5/1 and 4/2 are viable variations for Raiders.
A battle cloak or Pilot Maneuvers or something new altogether, that would make the ship interesting and (semi-?)unique. A 5/2 layout, however, is not what the Valiant needs. There's plenty of other 5/2 escorts, and there's plenty of other 4/3 escorts - and, if I remember correctly, the Phantom manages to be hailed as one of the better C-Store escorts with a 'naked' 4/3 layout.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.