Integrated cloak? The intel escort having one was a wrong move on the Devs' part. Now every T6 ship henceforth absolutely MUST have integrated battlecloak? I've seen enough posts objecting to Fed ships not having an integrated cloak. I've also seen enough posts objecting to the KDF/Rom ships having inferior stats compared to the Feds. It is NOT reasonable to expect Fed ships to enjoy such superioity that the KDF/Roms pay for the cloak, AND to have the cloak integrated without so much as the added "cost" of a console slot.
Battlecloak is different. It shouldn't be automatic, but they could so easily replace the useless set bonus with it.
Integrated cloak? The intel escort having one was a wrong move on the Devs' part. Now every T6 ship henceforth absolutely MUST have integrated battlecloak? I've seen enough posts objecting to Fed ships not having an integrated cloak. I've also seen enough posts objecting to the KDF/Rom ships having inferior stats compared to the Feds. It is NOT reasonable to expect Fed ships to enjoy such superioity that the KDF/Roms pay for the cloak, AND to have the cloak integrated without so much as the added "cost" of a console slot.
Battlecloak is different. It shouldn't be automatic, but they could so easily replace the useless set bonus with it.
It's goddamn insulting that something that all Klingon and Romulan ships have requires a console slot to be used up for Fed. Kling and Rom ships are in no way deficient from having cloaks, while a Fed ship ends up gimping themselves by using one. It's stupid that a very common integrated feature in a significant number of ships in the game requires a console!
The cloaking console should never have existed in the first place! It should have been baked into the Avenger, Gal-X, and Defiant from the outset!
It's goddamn insulting that something that all Klingon and Romulan ships have requires a console slot to be used up for Fed. Kling and Rom ships are in no way deficient from having cloaks, while a Fed ship ends up gimping themselves by using one. It's stupid that a very common integrated feature in a significant number of ships in the game requires a console!
The cloaking console should never have existed in the first place! It should have been baked into the Avenger, Gal-X, and Defiant from the outset!
Yep. But that's the way it is. KDF and Republic gets the intergrated cloak because that's part of the benefits of being that faction. Starfleet ships have to make a sacrifice in the form of a console slot, in order to benefit from a cloak at all.
It's part of keeping some measure of diversity between the factions. Feds can't - and at no point should - be simply granted access to the other factions' unique things. Integrated cloak being one of the few examples.
I just want them to re-evalute the set bonuses and i would be a happy camper.
The cooldown reduction seems like a copy pasta code mistake from the Kor bonus and makes no sense for Valiant. And they set precedent by giving the Ar'kif/Jhu'ael a set with plasma quads, so it lacking the phaser quads for the Valiant seems like an incredible oversight.
It's part of keeping some measure of diversity between the factions. Feds can't - and at no point should - be simply granted access to the other factions' unique things. Integrated cloak being one of the few examples.
The only reason Fed still has something unique (Sci Ships) is because no one wants them. Ever since the Mogh/Avenger debacle, Fed ships end up being objectively worse than the copy-paste Kling and Rom ships.
Reading all those "its UNREASONABLE, unrealistic, they cant have it, they should never have it, because **add DOZENZ of Randomly Generated NONSENSE Reasons here** makes me really sick and grows a cancer in my eyes.
You say NAY NAY NAY, but dont give any logical Reasons, and no "but but but the other T6ses were treated similar" is not a reason, and is not making it any better.
MOST People agree, that you cant rip every other Escorts abilitys and Specilities and cramp it into the Valiant, because yea would be OP and UNREASONABLE, BUT the same People also agree, that it CANT BE that you basically get NOTHING with the Valiant, you can argue as much as you want, it IS a Naked Ship that has absolutely NADA compared to bascally every other Escort we allready have!!!
i said it several Times, but no one was able to answer cause there IS no answer that would make sense:
What does the Valiant offer to Justify buying it???
People who fly the Pilot Escorts have a com Level Pilot Seat, Dodging Maneuvers AND a 5 / 2 Weapons Layout
People who Fly the Phantom have a com Level Intel Seat, Intel Abilitys AND an Integrated Non Battlecloak
it does not even need other T6ses to compare
People who have the Kumari and Variants (like ME) have ALSO 5 / 2 Weapons Layout and the Powerfull Kumari Wing Cannons
Why should ANYONE who has ANY of those Ships even think about getting a Valiant? one has to be BLIND to NOT see that this would be a MAJOR Downgrade to what they allready have?
Now, someone who did not have any of those and who decides that he wants to buy a new Escort....if he has a look at the Valiant and than all those other Escorts......WHY should he even Consider buying something so INFERIOR???
*Tactical Escort* TACTICAL, with that Name should it not be MORE Tac Focused than other Escorts?? EVERY other Escort avaible is a more "Tactical Escort" than this Toothless Pocket Tiger.......
Defiant Fans (like me) could say, well its a Defiant.......but....erm.....paying 30 Dollars for a Costume and a Name??........
And you guys seriously Defend this??? I cant even Facepalm hard enough to show how ridicilous that is.....
All we asked for was to give it a little bit of Something, so it does NOT hurt when we switch from another Escort into this Iconic Escort, yet everyone JUMPS at us Pointing your Fingers at us Yelling " HOW dare you to ask for ANYTHING?! it is UNREASONABLE! you CANT, you WONT, you DONT, because **add more RIDICILOUS random generated reasons here**
Someone allready mentioned how low the Zen Market is right now (232 Dil per Zen right now) normaly it would SKYROCKET over the Roof when a new Ship is announced and Realeased, this time it went up a little bit when the pack was announced, and when it was realeased...it dropped back DOWN! well GUES WHY?!
The
"lets slap a Iconic Name and Costume on it, paired with Garbage Layout / Stats, cause Name and Costume will Auto Sell it"
does NOT work forever, at one Point people will realize what a scam this is, and it looks like that is the case now.
People may be Naive and / or such Huge Fans of the Show that they will ignore many Flaws, BUT they are not Idiots.
Slapping a T6 Sticker and a New Costume + Name on an UTTERLY Outdated and Outperformed Ship does NOT cutt it anymore.
so i said it, and i say again out of ALL the Whistles and Bells that ALL other Escorts have, those 2 things are NO WAY NEAR Unreasonable, and are the BAR MINIMUM of what the Valiant MUST have, to make People even think getting it over any other Escort:
1. The 5 /2 Weapons Layout, Pilot Ships have it, Kumari and Variant have it, Avenger and Albiter (BATTLECRUISERS!) have it, so this BRAND new **TACTICAL** Escort should have it too!
2. Including the Sao Paulo Quad Cannons into a new 2 Piece Set with the new Torp Console and the Quads giving the Quads a Damage Boost, to Base Damage and Crtd + Crth, or IF the useless Cloak Console has to be (should be ditched but whaever....)
a 3 Piece Set where the third Set bonus could be something like Ablative Armor (when activated gives a huge damage resistance for 10-20 seconds and bonus to all power levels maybe)
those 2 LITTLE things are just SOMETHING, compared to ALL the Whistles and Bells that the other Escorts have, BUT it would make the Valiant worthwhile, it would give a reason to buy it, to switch from other Escorts to it, or in short
it would make the Valiant look like SOMETHING, compared to NOTHING as it is right now.
*Brace for White Knight Counterattack in 3....2......1.....*
That selfish talk needs to end, the wah wah exclusivity stuff is stupid. Every faction should be able to enjoy some taste, be it like one exception, that another faction has a corner of that market.
If you dont like it then you dont have to partake it in.
That selfish talk needs to end, the wah wah exclusivity stuff is stupid.
Every faction should be able to enjoy some taste, be it like one exception, that another faction has a corner of that market.
If you dont like it then you dont have to partake it in.
I don't intend to and it's a real shame that is the case.
Why should ANYONE who has ANY of those Ships even think about getting a Valiant? one has to be BLIND to NOT see that this would be a MAJOR Downgrade to what they allready have?
How many people do you think have any of the other ones? Do you think Cryptic relies mostly on ship collectors?
*Tactical Escort* TACTICAL, with that Name should it not be MORE Tac Focused than other Escorts?? EVERY other Escort avaible is a more "Tactical Escort" than this Toothless Pocket Tiger.......
There is nothing toothless about the Defiant. That's simply hyperbole.
And hey, the "Exploration" Cruiser could a tactical lt.cmdr because DPS, who cares that it's supposed to be a vehicle for deep space exploration? Not to mention that the many tactical bridge officer slots the Defiant used to have was always considered a flaw because there were too many shared cooldowns to make good use of them. A Lt.Universal slot and Pilot Hybrid seats take care of that problem forever.
Defiant Fans (like me) could say, well its a Defiant.......but....erm.....paying 30 Dollars for a Costume and a Name??........
Why not? 30 $ is what you pay for a physical model. Sure, that model is yours forever (probably), and doesn't go away when STO goes down, but on the other hand, that model can pretty much only be looked at, you can't play much with it, and you'd need to buy a lot of other models if you want to have some cool space fights with it (and since most people have no more than two hands, the fights might be a bit ... limited.)
What I think however is that it would have made sense to give he Defiant a 3-set bonus, or at least make the Quad Cannons worthwhile again. Currently they appear to be just a bit more fancy looking cannons that pay for being Ultra-Rare with an engine power penalty for no reason.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Why should ANYONE who has ANY of those Ships even think about getting a Valiant? one has to be BLIND to NOT see that this would be a MAJOR Downgrade to what they allready have?
How many people do you think have any of the other ones? Do you think Cryptic relies mostly on ship collectors?
*Tactical Escort* TACTICAL, with that Name should it not be MORE Tac Focused than other Escorts?? EVERY other Escort avaible is a more "Tactical Escort" than this Toothless Pocket Tiger.......
There is nothing toothless about the Defiant. That's simply hyperbole.
And hey, the "Exploration" Cruiser could a tactical lt.cmdr because DPS, who cares that it's supposed to be a vehicle for deep space exploration? Not to mention that the many tactical bridge officer slots the Defiant used to have was always considered a flaw because there were too many shared cooldowns to make good use of them. A Lt.Universal slot and Pilot Hybrid seats take care of that problem forever.
Defiant Fans (like me) could say, well its a Defiant.......but....erm.....paying 30 Dollars for a Costume and a Name??........
Why not? 30 $ is what you pay for a physical model. Sure, that model is yours forever (probably), and doesn't go away when STO goes down, but on the other hand, that model can pretty much only be looked at, you can't play much with it, and you'd need to buy a lot of other models if you want to have some cool space fights with it (and since most people have no more than two hands, the fights might be a bit ... limited.)
What I think however is that it would have made sense to give he Defiant a 3-set bonus, or at least make the Quad Cannons worthwhile again. Currently they appear to be just a bit more fancy looking cannons that pay for being Ultra-Rare with an engine power penalty for no reason.
the last part of your post with the quad cannons is valid, and what everyone including me says, the rest of your post however is the same that every "nay nay" sayer here repeats.
2 Things, its just 2 little things compared to the sheer ammount of goodies that the other escorts have over the valiant, no one is asking for a Vaporizer Turbo Defiant, no one is asking for a Valiant with 30 / 20 Weapon Slots, Commander Level Pilot, Intel AND Command Seat, Dodging Maneuvers, Integrated Enhanced Battlecloak, Intel and Command abilitys, 4 Hangar bays that can launch Frigattes (launching more Defiants / Valiants Derp Herp Derp Herp) and a Super Heavy Lance that one shoot kills everything with 5 seconds recharge........
its just the outdated and for a new Tactical Escort not fitting 4 /3 Weapons Layout that should be a 5 /2 like on a series of other ships INCLUDING some T5s, and the Inclusion of the Quad Cannons in a Set, that everyone agree anyway.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen? You mention the Arbiter, yet that is a battleCRUISER! The precedent that the devs have set with other, higher-tier releases of ships from T5 to T6 have made it perfectly clear (to me) that a ship's weapon slots are the one thing that remain unchanged. If you fail to grasp this concept then I'm unsure what it is you expect to happen.
If the Defiant/Valiant was given a change to weapon slots people would be clamouring for the same thing to happen to BoPs and other T6 escorts, possibly even cruisers and science vessels...if you think that the Valiant needs an increase in weapon slots then you clearly need to take a good hard look at how you build your ships if you're relying on your weapons THAT much.
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen?
Actually the Intrepid and Galaxy had markedly poor showings throughout TNG and Voyager. In particular, I've been watching episodes of Voyager lately, and I'm not even exaggerating when the show can't go an episode without the threat of a warpcore breach. The Defiant on the other hand is pretty consistent as a "tough little ship" that gives as good as it gets.
5/2 weps, Pilot maneuvers, that's all unreasonable.
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen?
Actually the Intrepid and Galaxy had markedly poor showings throughout TNG and Voyager. In particular, I've been watching episodes of Voyager lately, and I'm not even exaggerating when the show can't go an episode without the threat of a warpcore breach. The Defiant on the other hand is pretty consistent as a "tough little ship" that gives as good as it gets.
Yes, but the Galaxy (Ent-D) and Intrepid (Voyager) also had "plot armour", very much like the Defiant did..the biggest instance of this, IMO, is in the Year of Hell where Voyager was under constant attack(?) and the crew still managed to survive long enough to form an alliance. We didn't see much combat in TNG, thanks in part to the writing and Picard's diplomacy.
5/2 weps, Pilot maneuvers, that's all unreasonable.
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Someone want to walk me through this?
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen? You mention the Arbiter, yet that is a battleCRUISER! The precedent that the devs have set with other, higher-tier releases of ships from T5 to T6 have made it perfectly clear (to me) that a ship's weapon slots are the one thing that remain unchanged. If you fail to grasp this concept then I'm unsure what it is you expect to happen.
If the Defiant/Valiant was given a change to weapon slots people would be clamouring for the same thing to happen to BoPs and other T6 escorts, possibly even cruisers and science vessels...if you think that the Valiant needs an increase in weapon slots then you clearly need to take a good hard look at how you build your ships if you're relying on your weapons THAT much.
really getting tired of the nay nay nay nay nay, because endless reasons.......
read my last damn post and show me where i said that it should be god like...the opposite is the case, but of course the moment someone dares to ask for just a little more (with all rights in this case) you naysayers think that we ask for the universe.....
When the Defiant was brought into the Game, there was no Tactical Ships with 5 Front Weapons, so nothing to compare with, but things CHANGE....basically EVERY Escorts that followed the Defiant, completly outperformed it, and than we got the first Tac Ships with 5 Weapons front, that even more rendered the Defiant useless.
NO tac Ship had more than 4 Weapons, that CHANGED, so YES such Changes happen, and the Valiant is NOT the T5 Defiant, but basically a BRAND NEW Ship, but because this "nonsense" traditions bla bla, it still has most of the flaws and the Outdated Layout of it predecessor, and that is plain and simple WRONG, esspecially when compared to all the other New Escorts.
If you and the other nay sayers here FAIL to understand that, than iam not sure whether or not we speak the same Language here......
The BoP and the Malem in this Bundle are a Raider and a Light Warbird, therefore 4 /3 (or 4 /2) fits them Perfectly, but NOT a TACTICAL Escort!
My Builds are just fine, thank you, and that has nothing to do with the Topic, i mean whats next? maybe a new "Tac" ship with a 2 /2 Layout? i mean if the Weapons Layout is not that important than why not huh? Iam sure you can make something out of that too.....
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Someone want to walk me through this?
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
That about sums it up. That, and the T6 variants haven't been much of a change from T5. Weapons setups aren't one of the things that the Devs seem to be interested in changing between T5 to T6, which makes sense given that they're going for the incremental upgrade / refit approach.
really getting tired of the nay nay nay nay nay, because endless reasons.......
Endless reasons because they are the reasons, as far as can be gathered from the presentation of the T6 Defiant and the other T6 refits, for the most part.
I get that you're not happy with it. But this is how T6 ships appear to be released. Just gotta frame your expectations in the context of the general trend next time.
As I said a few pages back, when they get around to refitting my personal favourite, the Ambassador, I expect basically the same boff and weapons layout. Probably an extra eng console 'cause it's eng focused, with a Lt.Cmdr. Command seat (no Command abilities baked in), some slight stats boosts, and a trait or console that tie into the temporal theme of "Yesterday's Enterprise." No special things, no change to the basic function or capabilities - just a small update, with a new look and an update to the original model.
Why not? 30 $ is what you pay for a physical model. Sure, that model is yours forever (probably), and doesn't go away when STO goes down, but on the other hand, that model can pretty much only be looked at, you can't play much with it, and you'd need to buy a lot of other models if you want to have some cool space fights with it (and since most people have no more than two hands, the fights might be a bit ... limited.)
A physical model's price is justified in the materials and it's per unit manufacturing cost. Stuff that doesn't apply to digital wears... so best to not try and compare the two. While $30 is reasonable for a physical model, it isn't so much for a digital ship, when you can get a game for as much...
Yes, but the Galaxy (Ent-D) and Intrepid (Voyager) also had "plot armour", very much like the Defiant did..the biggest instance of this, IMO, is in the Year of Hell where Voyager was under constant attack(?) and the crew still managed to survive long enough to form an alliance. We didn't see much combat in TNG, thanks in part to the writing and Picard's diplomacy.
I haven't rewatched Year of Hell yet, but they basically ran away a lot, got torn to shreds, and abandoned ship in the end.
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
Other T6 remakes don't have strict competition for a niche. Of all the other remakes, only the Pathfinder is strictly outdone with no saving grace. It's been a year and there've been half a dozen remakes since and they were mostly well received. And now we get the Valiant. Admittedly, it's better off than the Pathfinder, but a large gap between it and the Phantom still exists.
And you know, I really don't know what's wrong with suggesting that Fed get an escort that's lighter than the Klingon Mat'ha.
Do you see that ship? I want a lighter version of that to be the T6 Defiant, and I'm not especially interested in the cloak. Just give me the same general layout, lose some hp, gain some speed, and call it a day. We'd be golden!
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Someone want to walk me through this?
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
That about sums it up. That, and the T6 variants haven't been much of a change from T5. Weapons setups aren't one of the things that the Devs seem to be interested in changing between T5 to T6, which makes sense given that they're going for the incremental upgrade / refit approach.
really getting tired of the nay nay nay nay nay, because endless reasons.......
Endless reasons because they are the reasons, as far as can be gathered from the presentation of the T6 Defiant and the other T6 refits, for the most part.
I get that you're not happy with it. But this is how T6 ships appear to be released. Just gotta frame your expectations in the context of the general trend next time.
As I said a few pages back, when they get around to refitting my personal favourite, the Ambassador, I expect basically the same boff and weapons layout. Probably an extra eng console 'cause it's eng focused, with a Lt.Cmdr. Command seat (no Command abilities baked in), some slight stats boosts, and a trait or console that tie into the temporal theme of "Yesterday's Enterprise." No special things, no change to the basic function or capabilities - just a small update, with a new look and an update to the original model.
Invalid Reasons. on some Ships THIS kind of T6 Treatment makes sense, on others it does NOT.
Cruisers HAD 4 /4 Weapon Slots and STILL have that SAME Layout on the T6ses(except a few ships like the Avenger / Albiter)
so there is nothing to complain here, BUT Tactical Ships have CHANGED they introduced the 5 / 2 Weapons Layout and that BEFORE even T6 (Kumari and Variants) and THIS should be the new "default" for ANY T6 Escort, as part of the T6 Treatment, it was brought in so you cant make a step back, for that its too late.
I dont know how else one can explain, that giving some ships ALL the Awesome Shinys, and than giving another Ship (in this case a ICONIC SHIP, thats like poking in a hornets Nest) like NOTHING, is PLAIN and SIMPLE WRONG?! Even a KID would understand that, but for whatever reasons, it seems that some people lack that BASIC understanding, in this case iam sorry but i cant help you with that, it was your Parents job to teach you about such Basic Knowledge (no insult here, just a generel fact)
Right now iam feeling like Don Quijote, fighting against Wind Mills, and that is seriously tiresome...........
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Invalid Reasons. on some Ships THIS kind of T6 Treatment makes sense, on others it does NOT.
Cruisers HAD 4 /4 Weapon Slots and STILL have that SAME Layout on the T6ses(except a few ships like the Avenger / Albiter)
so there is nothing to complain here, BUT Tactical Ships have CHANGED they introduced the 5 / 2 Weapons Layout and that BEFORE even T6 (Kumari and Variants) and THIS should be the new "default" for ANY T6 Escort, as part of the T6 Treatment, it was brought in so you cant make a step back, for that its too late.
Tactical ships didn't 'change.' 5/2 is an option for some ships, but not all. The Defiant it not 5/2, so the Valiant wasn't - and isn't - going to be. The fact that 5/2 should be the new standard for escorts is your own opinion. But it clearly wasn't going to be applied to the T6 Defiant.
I don't know how I can explain the trends in Cryptic's design for T6 any better. But I'm certainly not going to start insulting your upbringing, just because you don't see the trend.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
Invalid Reasons. on some Ships THIS kind of T6 Treatment makes sense, on others it does NOT.
Cruisers HAD 4 /4 Weapon Slots and STILL have that SAME Layout on the T6ses(except a few ships like the Avenger / Albiter)
so there is nothing to complain here, BUT Tactical Ships have CHANGED they introduced the 5 / 2 Weapons Layout and that BEFORE even T6 (Kumari and Variants) and THIS should be the new "default" for ANY T6 Escort, as part of the T6 Treatment, it was brought in so you cant make a step back, for that its too late.
Tactical ships didn't 'change.' 5/2 is an option for some ships, but not all. The Defiant it not 5/2, so the Valiant wasn't - and isn't - going to be. The fact that 5/2 should be the new standard for escorts is your own opinion. But it clearly wasn't going to be applied to the T6 Defiant.
I don't know how I can explain the trends in Cryptic's design for T6 any better. But I'm certainly not going to start insulting your upbringing, just because you don't see the trend.
its more than just a "few" but whatever.....arguing with you and the likes of you is like arguing with a wall, maybe even worse.
The Valiant is NOT - and i said that before - NOT the DEFIANT but a BRAND NEW SHIP its SUCCESOR, therefore should not be restricted to its predecessor, esspecially if that one was / is outdated by all other Escorts.
I also have not Insulted you, even said that in brackets to make sure that you dont missunderstand me but again whatever......
You guys just fail to understand the simple fact that there is "more on the one side than the other" and that this is injustice, i really cant help you with that, but the one thing i realize is, that iam really wasting my time with you, i can say whatever i want (and not just me) your answers will be alway "nay" with some random other reasons, trying to justify where there is no justice.....sad.
You've never heard of the term 'Vocal Minority' have you.
Despite this according to you being the majority opinion its not stopped T6 Defiants flooding into the game since Thursday, every third federation escort I've seen over the past 2 days has been a Defiant. Amusingly in contrast I've only seen a handful of pilot ships.
This is for the record called anecdotal evidence, only cryptic knows for certain how many have sold and are being flown, the rest of us can only make assumptions based on what we observe, Cryptic are the only ones with the true facts of the numbers.
You've never heard of the term 'Vocal Minority' have you.
Despite this according to you being the majority opinion its not stopped T6 Defiants flooding into the game since Thursday, every third federation escort I've seen over the past 2 days has been a Defiant. Amusingly in contrast I've only seen a handful of pilot ships.
This is for the record called anecdotal evidence, only cryptic knows for certain how many have sold and are being flown, the rest of us can only make assumptions based on what we observe, Cryptic are the only ones with the true facts of the numbers.
T6 Defiants have flooded tha Game huh? Funny that i dont see ANYTHING like that, i have yet too see one of them, in the mirror event i saw 3 Defiants....one Stock T5, one T5U and the other was a Fleet T5U but no T6.....maybe next time you should have a closer look to see what ship that is, or look up the info
Amusingly i see Pilot Ships left right and Center...you sure you play the same Game??
and your "Vocal Minority"....go to side one of this Thread and than one by one see how many are Complaining and how many are Happy.....i can tell you, you here complain everywhere including the other Social sites, with some people who are ok with that here and there......so its Vocal Majority and Silent Minority and not the other Way around.
You've never heard of the term 'Vocal Minority' have you.
Despite this according to you being the majority opinion its not stopped T6 Defiants flooding into the game since Thursday, every third federation escort I've seen over the past 2 days has been a Defiant. Amusingly in contrast I've only seen a handful of pilot ships.
This is for the record called anecdotal evidence, only cryptic knows for certain how many have sold and are being flown, the rest of us can only make assumptions based on what we observe, Cryptic are the only ones with the true facts of the numbers.
T6 Defiants have flooded tha Game huh? Funny that i dont see ANYTHING like that, i have yet too see one of them, in the mirror event i saw 3 Defiants....one Stock T5, one T5U and the other was a Fleet T5U but no T6.....maybe next time you should have a closer look to see what ship that is, or look up the info
Amusingly i see Pilot Ships left right and Center...you sure you play the same Game??
and your "Vocal Minority"....go to side one of this Thread and than one by one see how many are Complaining and how many are Happy.....i can tell you, you here complain everywhere including the other Social sites, with some people who are ok with that here and there......so its Vocal Majority and Silent Minority and not the other Way around.
I suggest you try just speaking for yourself, when posting to these fora. Claiming your opinion is the majority is kinda silly. Some players are happy, some players aren't - but even the ones who aren't will have varying reasons that don't always align with your own.
Comments
Battlecloak is different. It shouldn't be automatic, but they could so easily replace the useless set bonus with it.
Definitely. That alone would be extremely likely to provoke me into getting it (and the Sao Paulo, if need be, for a 3-piece set).
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
It's goddamn insulting that something that all Klingon and Romulan ships have requires a console slot to be used up for Fed. Kling and Rom ships are in no way deficient from having cloaks, while a Fed ship ends up gimping themselves by using one. It's stupid that a very common integrated feature in a significant number of ships in the game requires a console!
The cloaking console should never have existed in the first place! It should have been baked into the Avenger, Gal-X, and Defiant from the outset!
I don't use it either. Ever. I'd rather go for something else.
Yep. But that's the way it is. KDF and Republic gets the intergrated cloak because that's part of the benefits of being that faction. Starfleet ships have to make a sacrifice in the form of a console slot, in order to benefit from a cloak at all.
It's part of keeping some measure of diversity between the factions. Feds can't - and at no point should - be simply granted access to the other factions' unique things. Integrated cloak being one of the few examples.
The cooldown reduction seems like a copy pasta code mistake from the Kor bonus and makes no sense for Valiant.
And they set precedent by giving the Ar'kif/Jhu'ael a set with plasma quads, so it lacking the phaser quads for the Valiant seems like an incredible oversight.
The only reason Fed still has something unique (Sci Ships) is because no one wants them. Ever since the Mogh/Avenger debacle, Fed ships end up being objectively worse than the copy-paste Kling and Rom ships.
You say NAY NAY NAY, but dont give any logical Reasons, and no "but but but the other T6ses were treated similar" is not a reason, and is not making it any better.
MOST People agree, that you cant rip every other Escorts abilitys and Specilities and cramp it into the Valiant, because yea would be OP and UNREASONABLE, BUT the same People also agree, that it CANT BE that you basically get NOTHING with the Valiant, you can argue as much as you want, it IS a Naked Ship that has absolutely NADA compared to bascally every other Escort we allready have!!!
i said it several Times, but no one was able to answer cause there IS no answer that would make sense:
What does the Valiant offer to Justify buying it???
People who fly the Pilot Escorts have a com Level Pilot Seat, Dodging Maneuvers AND a 5 / 2 Weapons Layout
People who Fly the Phantom have a com Level Intel Seat, Intel Abilitys AND an Integrated Non Battlecloak
it does not even need other T6ses to compare
People who have the Kumari and Variants (like ME) have ALSO 5 / 2 Weapons Layout and the Powerfull Kumari Wing Cannons
Why should ANYONE who has ANY of those Ships even think about getting a Valiant? one has to be BLIND to NOT see that this would be a MAJOR Downgrade to what they allready have?
Now, someone who did not have any of those and who decides that he wants to buy a new Escort....if he has a look at the Valiant and than all those other Escorts......WHY should he even Consider buying something so INFERIOR???
*Tactical Escort* TACTICAL, with that Name should it not be MORE Tac Focused than other Escorts?? EVERY other Escort avaible is a more "Tactical Escort" than this Toothless Pocket Tiger.......
Defiant Fans (like me) could say, well its a Defiant.......but....erm.....paying 30 Dollars for a Costume and a Name??........
And you guys seriously Defend this??? I cant even Facepalm hard enough to show how ridicilous that is.....
All we asked for was to give it a little bit of Something, so it does NOT hurt when we switch from another Escort into this Iconic Escort, yet everyone JUMPS at us Pointing your Fingers at us Yelling " HOW dare you to ask for ANYTHING?! it is UNREASONABLE! you CANT, you WONT, you DONT, because **add more RIDICILOUS random generated reasons here**
Someone allready mentioned how low the Zen Market is right now (232 Dil per Zen right now) normaly it would SKYROCKET over the Roof when a new Ship is announced and Realeased, this time it went up a little bit when the pack was announced, and when it was realeased...it dropped back DOWN! well GUES WHY?!
The
"lets slap a Iconic Name and Costume on it, paired with Garbage Layout / Stats, cause Name and Costume will Auto Sell it"
does NOT work forever, at one Point people will realize what a scam this is, and it looks like that is the case now.
People may be Naive and / or such Huge Fans of the Show that they will ignore many Flaws, BUT they are not Idiots.
Slapping a T6 Sticker and a New Costume + Name on an UTTERLY Outdated and Outperformed Ship does NOT cutt it anymore.
so i said it, and i say again out of ALL the Whistles and Bells that ALL other Escorts have, those 2 things are NO WAY NEAR Unreasonable, and are the BAR MINIMUM of what the Valiant MUST have, to make People even think getting it over any other Escort:
1. The 5 /2 Weapons Layout, Pilot Ships have it, Kumari and Variant have it, Avenger and Albiter (BATTLECRUISERS!) have it, so this BRAND new **TACTICAL** Escort should have it too!
2. Including the Sao Paulo Quad Cannons into a new 2 Piece Set with the new Torp Console and the Quads giving the Quads a Damage Boost, to Base Damage and Crtd + Crth, or IF the useless Cloak Console has to be (should be ditched but whaever....)
a 3 Piece Set where the third Set bonus could be something like Ablative Armor (when activated gives a huge damage resistance for 10-20 seconds and bonus to all power levels maybe)
those 2 LITTLE things are just SOMETHING, compared to ALL the Whistles and Bells that the other Escorts have, BUT it would make the Valiant worthwhile, it would give a reason to buy it, to switch from other Escorts to it, or in short
it would make the Valiant look like SOMETHING, compared to NOTHING as it is right now.
*Brace for White Knight Counterattack in 3....2......1.....*
Every faction should be able to enjoy some taste, be it like one exception, that another faction has a corner of that market.
If you dont like it then you dont have to partake it in.
I don't intend to and it's a real shame that is the case.
There is nothing toothless about the Defiant. That's simply hyperbole.
And hey, the "Exploration" Cruiser could a tactical lt.cmdr because DPS, who cares that it's supposed to be a vehicle for deep space exploration? Not to mention that the many tactical bridge officer slots the Defiant used to have was always considered a flaw because there were too many shared cooldowns to make good use of them. A Lt.Universal slot and Pilot Hybrid seats take care of that problem forever.
Why not? 30 $ is what you pay for a physical model. Sure, that model is yours forever (probably), and doesn't go away when STO goes down, but on the other hand, that model can pretty much only be looked at, you can't play much with it, and you'd need to buy a lot of other models if you want to have some cool space fights with it (and since most people have no more than two hands, the fights might be a bit ... limited.)
What I think however is that it would have made sense to give he Defiant a 3-set bonus, or at least make the Quad Cannons worthwhile again. Currently they appear to be just a bit more fancy looking cannons that pay for being Ultra-Rare with an engine power penalty for no reason.
the last part of your post with the quad cannons is valid, and what everyone including me says, the rest of your post however is the same that every "nay nay" sayer here repeats.
2 Things, its just 2 little things compared to the sheer ammount of goodies that the other escorts have over the valiant, no one is asking for a Vaporizer Turbo Defiant, no one is asking for a Valiant with 30 / 20 Weapon Slots, Commander Level Pilot, Intel AND Command Seat, Dodging Maneuvers, Integrated Enhanced Battlecloak, Intel and Command abilitys, 4 Hangar bays that can launch Frigattes (launching more Defiants / Valiants Derp Herp Derp Herp) and a Super Heavy Lance that one shoot kills everything with 5 seconds recharge........
its just the outdated and for a new Tactical Escort not fitting 4 /3 Weapons Layout that should be a 5 /2 like on a series of other ships INCLUDING some T5s, and the Inclusion of the Quad Cannons in a Set, that everyone agree anyway.
Nay Sayers will always say NAY, but that does not invalidate the given Facts that so many People here including me statet over and over again.
Why should the Defiant that we get in-game, be the god-ship that we saw in DS9 when the Galaxy/Intrepid we get in-game are no where near their respective god-ships we saw on screen? You mention the Arbiter, yet that is a battleCRUISER! The precedent that the devs have set with other, higher-tier releases of ships from T5 to T6 have made it perfectly clear (to me) that a ship's weapon slots are the one thing that remain unchanged. If you fail to grasp this concept then I'm unsure what it is you expect to happen.
If the Defiant/Valiant was given a change to weapon slots people would be clamouring for the same thing to happen to BoPs and other T6 escorts, possibly even cruisers and science vessels...if you think that the Valiant needs an increase in weapon slots then you clearly need to take a good hard look at how you build your ships if you're relying on your weapons THAT much.
Actually the Intrepid and Galaxy had markedly poor showings throughout TNG and Voyager. In particular, I've been watching episodes of Voyager lately, and I'm not even exaggerating when the show can't go an episode without the threat of a warpcore breach. The Defiant on the other hand is pretty consistent as a "tough little ship" that gives as good as it gets.
Someone please explain to me why that's so unreasonable. The pilot ships already have that, and the defiant is actually _smaller_. (I know, because I had a Valiant parked right next to my Icarus kitbash last night.) A reskin of the Icarus class, basically. Heck, the Icarus even has access to that micromissile swarm. I'll grant that 5/2, pilot maneuvers _and_ enhanced battle-cloak as a 3-item set bonus is probably pushing it pretty far, but the current set bonus is going over like a lead balloon anyway. So... yeah...
Someone want to walk me through this?
Yes, but the Galaxy (Ent-D) and Intrepid (Voyager) also had "plot armour", very much like the Defiant did..the biggest instance of this, IMO, is in the Year of Hell where Voyager was under constant attack(?) and the crew still managed to survive long enough to form an alliance. We didn't see much combat in TNG, thanks in part to the writing and Picard's diplomacy.
It's unreasonable because the Pilot Manoeuvres are unique to the pilot ships, just like the Gather Intel and Inspiration mechanics were unique to the Intel ships and Command Cruisers. As for the 5/2 weapon loadout, if they changed it on the T6 Defiant quite a few folks would demand a change to the loadouts on other T6 ships.
really getting tired of the nay nay nay nay nay, because endless reasons.......
read my last damn post and show me where i said that it should be god like...the opposite is the case, but of course the moment someone dares to ask for just a little more (with all rights in this case) you naysayers think that we ask for the universe.....
When the Defiant was brought into the Game, there was no Tactical Ships with 5 Front Weapons, so nothing to compare with, but things CHANGE....basically EVERY Escorts that followed the Defiant, completly outperformed it, and than we got the first Tac Ships with 5 Weapons front, that even more rendered the Defiant useless.
NO tac Ship had more than 4 Weapons, that CHANGED, so YES such Changes happen, and the Valiant is NOT the T5 Defiant, but basically a BRAND NEW Ship, but because this "nonsense" traditions bla bla, it still has most of the flaws and the Outdated Layout of it predecessor, and that is plain and simple WRONG, esspecially when compared to all the other New Escorts.
If you and the other nay sayers here FAIL to understand that, than iam not sure whether or not we speak the same Language here......
The BoP and the Malem in this Bundle are a Raider and a Light Warbird, therefore 4 /3 (or 4 /2) fits them Perfectly, but NOT a TACTICAL Escort!
My Builds are just fine, thank you, and that has nothing to do with the Topic, i mean whats next? maybe a new "Tac" ship with a 2 /2 Layout? i mean if the Weapons Layout is not that important than why not huh? Iam sure you can make something out of that too.....
That about sums it up. That, and the T6 variants haven't been much of a change from T5. Weapons setups aren't one of the things that the Devs seem to be interested in changing between T5 to T6, which makes sense given that they're going for the incremental upgrade / refit approach.
Endless reasons because they are the reasons, as far as can be gathered from the presentation of the T6 Defiant and the other T6 refits, for the most part.
I get that you're not happy with it. But this is how T6 ships appear to be released. Just gotta frame your expectations in the context of the general trend next time.
As I said a few pages back, when they get around to refitting my personal favourite, the Ambassador, I expect basically the same boff and weapons layout. Probably an extra eng console 'cause it's eng focused, with a Lt.Cmdr. Command seat (no Command abilities baked in), some slight stats boosts, and a trait or console that tie into the temporal theme of "Yesterday's Enterprise." No special things, no change to the basic function or capabilities - just a small update, with a new look and an update to the original model.
A physical model's price is justified in the materials and it's per unit manufacturing cost. Stuff that doesn't apply to digital wears... so best to not try and compare the two. While $30 is reasonable for a physical model, it isn't so much for a digital ship, when you can get a game for as much...
I haven't rewatched Year of Hell yet, but they basically ran away a lot, got torn to shreds, and abandoned ship in the end.
Other T6 remakes don't have strict competition for a niche. Of all the other remakes, only the Pathfinder is strictly outdone with no saving grace. It's been a year and there've been half a dozen remakes since and they were mostly well received. And now we get the Valiant. Admittedly, it's better off than the Pathfinder, but a large gap between it and the Phantom still exists.
And you know, I really don't know what's wrong with suggesting that Fed get an escort that's lighter than the Klingon Mat'ha.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mat'Ha_Raptor
Do you see that ship? I want a lighter version of that to be the T6 Defiant, and I'm not especially interested in the cloak. Just give me the same general layout, lose some hp, gain some speed, and call it a day. We'd be golden!
Invalid Reasons. on some Ships THIS kind of T6 Treatment makes sense, on others it does NOT.
Cruisers HAD 4 /4 Weapon Slots and STILL have that SAME Layout on the T6ses(except a few ships like the Avenger / Albiter)
so there is nothing to complain here, BUT Tactical Ships have CHANGED they introduced the 5 / 2 Weapons Layout and that BEFORE even T6 (Kumari and Variants) and THIS should be the new "default" for ANY T6 Escort, as part of the T6 Treatment, it was brought in so you cant make a step back, for that its too late.
I dont know how else one can explain, that giving some ships ALL the Awesome Shinys, and than giving another Ship (in this case a ICONIC SHIP, thats like poking in a hornets Nest) like NOTHING, is PLAIN and SIMPLE WRONG?! Even a KID would understand that, but for whatever reasons, it seems that some people lack that BASIC understanding, in this case iam sorry but i cant help you with that, it was your Parents job to teach you about such Basic Knowledge (no insult here, just a generel fact)
Right now iam feeling like Don Quijote, fighting against Wind Mills, and that is seriously tiresome...........
Most of your so called 'Facts' are actually just Opinions. Meanwhile you continue to negatively rag on others just because they don't share your opinion.
And people wonder why the devs stick to redit/twitter...
Tactical ships didn't 'change.' 5/2 is an option for some ships, but not all. The Defiant it not 5/2, so the Valiant wasn't - and isn't - going to be. The fact that 5/2 should be the new standard for escorts is your own opinion. But it clearly wasn't going to be applied to the T6 Defiant.
I don't know how I can explain the trends in Cryptic's design for T6 any better. But I'm certainly not going to start insulting your upbringing, just because you don't see the trend.
Funny enough this Oppinion is the Oppinion of the Majority, here in the Forums, Facebook, the Game AND also Reddit and Twitter that you mention, and you know, the voice of the Majority the louder than that of the Minority and therefore the one that Matters, you may see that otherwise up to you, but that does not change anything.
its more than just a "few" but whatever.....arguing with you and the likes of you is like arguing with a wall, maybe even worse.
The Valiant is NOT - and i said that before - NOT the DEFIANT but a BRAND NEW SHIP its SUCCESOR, therefore should not be restricted to its predecessor, esspecially if that one was / is outdated by all other Escorts.
I also have not Insulted you, even said that in brackets to make sure that you dont missunderstand me but again whatever......
You guys just fail to understand the simple fact that there is "more on the one side than the other" and that this is injustice, i really cant help you with that, but the one thing i realize is, that iam really wasting my time with you, i can say whatever i want (and not just me) your answers will be alway "nay" with some random other reasons, trying to justify where there is no justice.....sad.
Despite this according to you being the majority opinion its not stopped T6 Defiants flooding into the game since Thursday, every third federation escort I've seen over the past 2 days has been a Defiant. Amusingly in contrast I've only seen a handful of pilot ships.
This is for the record called anecdotal evidence, only cryptic knows for certain how many have sold and are being flown, the rest of us can only make assumptions based on what we observe, Cryptic are the only ones with the true facts of the numbers.
T6 Defiants have flooded tha Game huh? Funny that i dont see ANYTHING like that, i have yet too see one of them, in the mirror event i saw 3 Defiants....one Stock T5, one T5U and the other was a Fleet T5U but no T6.....maybe next time you should have a closer look to see what ship that is, or look up the info
Amusingly i see Pilot Ships left right and Center...you sure you play the same Game??
and your "Vocal Minority"....go to side one of this Thread and than one by one see how many are Complaining and how many are Happy.....i can tell you, you here complain everywhere including the other Social sites, with some people who are ok with that here and there......so its Vocal Majority and Silent Minority and not the other Way around.
I suggest you try just speaking for yourself, when posting to these fora. Claiming your opinion is the majority is kinda silly. Some players are happy, some players aren't - but even the ones who aren't will have varying reasons that don't always align with your own.