I was speaking only of the cloak. How many new ships from the 2400s must be released with integrated cloaks before we dispense with the misconception that the technology has no place in Starfleet?
The technology has no place in all starfleet ships because gameplay variety between factions.
apart from that, Fed T6 ships:
Integrated cloak:
Scryer, Eclipse, Phantom - the three specialized Intelligence ships.
No cloak:
Everybody else (11 to 15 classes, depending on whether you count the command and pilot ships as one class or three)
So basically we only have the Intel ships, which fill a special role that others don't.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Ya know if we stopped responding to air stealing mongoloids like this it probably wouldn't happen as often. So these threads are somewhat our fault for taking the bait.
The only way any ship could be a "total fail" is if NO ONE liked it. Moving the needle just a little bit, a ship would still be a fail if only a handful of people like it, because their goal is obviously that most people like what they make, and that the profit exceed the development cost. Having said that, I (obviously) have no idea how many people like this ship. However one thing I do know for sure is that whether the single person who posted this thread likes this ship has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether it is a success or failure.
I'm not surprised. All the canon ship's are inferior. They will sell because people are attached to their hero ship's. Performance is secondary.
This^
Getting pretty pissed off with having canon ships being inferior to cryptics TRIBBLE horrible abortions.
Wanted pilot maneuvers on the defiant because it looks so much fun but i will not buy those horrible pilot ships, To me it's not about being better or worse (i've been in my T5(U) Defiant almost exclusively since it launched way back). It was always about having a FUN MECHANIC on a CANON ship/ship i love.
Maybe time to boycott new ships altogether (or at least cryptic designs).
Great idea - then we'll have no new ships at all.
As a consumer I get to decide what I buy or not, when I say boycott I mean me personally, I'm not asking or telling anyone else which ships to buy, but if my choice is between cryptic designed ships with fun mechanics or canon designs without said mechanic (slight buff only) then i may just choose the 3rd way and keep my wallet shut. If this affect cryptics bottom line to the point they can't afford to make/sell new ships, this is my problem how?
Someone called for a boycott over a few lines of code!!!
Lolz, buy it or don't buy it, you all do not have to ge drama queens.
I assume this was directed at me?
When a company does something I like I WILL praise them for it (the defiant remodel for example, thankyou cryptic), on the other hand if they do something I don't like I WILL tell them I think they made a mistake (making cryptic designs with OP traits and extra features etc).
This doesn't make me or anyone else a drama queen.
And to be clear, I may still buy the defiant (favourite ship afterall) but it really annoys me that the cryptic designs get the fun features while canon designs just get a slight buff to T6 level.
Makes you wonder if they have any confidence in their own designs to sell at all lol.
(Lets face it cryptic tried leaving canon designs at T5 until they realised they had royally screwed the pooch).
I don't expect anyone to agree with me but this is honestly what I think.
The reason is that it is becoming the standard practice for any new Fed ship classes that cloak.
I may miss something here, but what are these "all new Fed shipclasses that cloak and have pilot abilities"?
I was speaking only of the cloak. How many new ships from the 2400s must be released with integrated cloaks before we dispense with the misconception that the technology has no place in Starfleet?
The T6 Gal-X has no integrated cloak. The T6 Avenger has no integrated cloak. Only three ships have integrated cloaks... the intelligence ships. You're doing the equivalent of saying pilot maneuvers are now standard because, "Look at all the ships with pilot maneuvers!" (which, btw, is also three, and all pilot ships much like integrated cloaks are all intelligence ships).
So how about waiting until (m)any non-specialty ships have it as a feature before you start calling it standard...
And once again I sit happily in my world of "I don't give a (insert expletive here)!" Since it's not a science ship for romulans. Will just wait for the next set of ships and probably have the same response.
Are you sure the Devs changed it to Quantums and it wasn't a Blog error?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So how about waiting until (m)any non-specialty ships have it as a feature before you start calling it standard...
I'm not indulging the "specialty" hair-split. It is a Starfleet vessel, period. As for "standard," once you've churned out large numbers of ships with this equipment, it's not reasonable to consider it anything but standard.
Is cloaking technology now firmly established as something that is officially permitted as Starfleet technology? Yes. It is not one-off foreign technology. It is not a special circumstance. It is a "dealership" option at the shipyards, just like any other. So there is no objective, technical reason why any Starfleet vessel can't have an integrated cloak, even in the game's "lore."
As for why it shouldn't have one, it's now basically reduced to some people wanting their ships to feel more special, which is not the least bit compelling.
It wasn't unreasonable or unrealistic to ask for an integrated cloak, and that would not have amounted to some ridiculously overpowered vessel that renders all other T6 escorts obsolete. Both of those arguments are 100% strawman.
It is in a sense, because whilst the rants are not worse in themselves, the context is. It isn't quite so bad when the ranting has a basis in reality, but the majority of this ranting seems to be based upon the Devs not adhereing to personal pipedreams, in complete ignorance to how EVERY previous T6 canon ship release has worked, about the Valiant having a 5/2 weapon layout, pilot manouvers and a battle cloak.
Okay, then we probably had different expectations - I expected that some people hoped/believed/wished that the Defiant would get Pilot ship abilities and a different weapon loadout. I expected that people would be ignorant of all the other anon retrofits. I expected people wanted battle cloak or at least integrated claok. And I expected that would be the basis of any rants.
I also expected people to hope for the BOP to no longer have a BO lot less than other ships of its tier.
What I didn't expected was that the Defiant would get a Lt.Universal or the BOP would actually go the Dual Lt.Cmdr way. I consider these nice surprises.
On a tangent:
I also didn't realize fully that the torpedo console is... a console. Not something you slot as a weapon. Which could make a huge difference in its potency, I think, because it could mean it's effectively a bonus weapon slot. Depending on the cooldowns and damage output, of course.
I expected all of the above too - it is still, nonetheless, disappointing to see such ranting based on unrealistic expectations and uninformed opinion.
You, me, some others expected the ranting was going to happen anyways.
Unrealistic expectations unfulfilled despite tons of T5->T6 conversions already done to see how Cryptic handles it???
FAIL!
It was funny reading about the requests to turn Defiant into a 5/2, Battle Cloaking Escort with Pilot Maneuvers. No sense of restraint in what to realistically expect.
Unrealistic expectations unfulfilled despite tons of T5->T6 conversions already done to see how Cryptic handles it???
I seriously doubt many were surprised by how it was handled- but are upset with the decision that all the iconic ships are third rate ships compared to Cryptic's own designs and lockboxes.
They might be "solid" but the pilot escorts are superior.
All I need to say, is that the Defiant is going to have an ability that makes CSV last what 5 seconds longer, considering the cool down, you can spam CSV faster than ships can spam FAW.
And you think that is worthless?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
They might be "solid" but the pilot escorts are superior.
All I need to say, is that the Defiant is going to have an ability that makes CSV last what 5 seconds longer, considering the cool down, you can spam CSV faster than ships can spam FAW.
And you think that is worthless?
Cannons, so yes not all that interesting. And the trait isn't locked to the ship, it can be moved to better ones.
They might be "solid" but the pilot escorts are superior.
All I need to say, is that the Defiant is going to have an ability that makes CSV last what 5 seconds longer, considering the cool down, you can spam CSV faster than ships can spam FAW.
And you think that is worthless?
Cannons, so yes not all that interesting. And the trait isn't locked to the ship, it can be moved to better ones.
Like what pray tell?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
So how about waiting until (m)any non-specialty ships have it as a feature before you start calling it standard...
I'm not indulging the "specialty" hair-split. It is a Starfleet vessel, period. As for "standard," once you've churned out large numbers of ships with this equipment, it's not reasonable to consider it anything but standard.
Is cloaking technology now firmly established as something that is officially permitted as Starfleet technology? Yes. It is not one-off foreign technology. It is not a special circumstance. It is a "dealership" option at the shipyards, just like any other. So there is no objective, technical reason why any Starfleet vessel can't have an integrated cloak, even in the game's "lore."
As for why it shouldn't have one, it's now basically reduced to some people wanting their ships to feel more special, which is not the least bit compelling.
It wasn't unreasonable or unrealistic to ask for an integrated cloak, and that would not have amounted to some ridiculously overpowered vessel that renders all other T6 escorts obsolete. Both of those arguments are 100% strawman.
poor gene.
I'm just not gonna bother explianing what your missing but I'm gonna leave a clue. your starfleet, not romulans, klingons or any of the minor races with cloak.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
They might be "solid" but the pilot escorts are superior.
All I need to say, is that the Defiant is going to have an ability that makes CSV last what 5 seconds longer, considering the cool down, you can spam CSV faster than ships can spam FAW.
And you think that is worthless?
Cannons, so yes not all that interesting. And the trait isn't locked to the ship, it can be moved to better ones.
Like what pray tell?
Like the Intel escort*, Command Ships, Pilot Ships, the upcoming T6 Patrol Escort, or any number of Lockbox ships. It's amazing how many ships can use cannons these days.
Traits may be a reason for the well-off to buy a ship, but they are never a reason to fly it after its earned.
They might be "solid" but the pilot escorts are superior.
All I need to say, is that the Defiant is going to have an ability that makes CSV last what 5 seconds longer, considering the cool down, you can spam CSV faster than ships can spam FAW.
And you think that is worthless?
Cannons, so yes not all that interesting. And the trait isn't locked to the ship, it can be moved to better ones.
Like what pray tell?
Like the Intel ships, Command Ships, Pilot Ships, the upcoming T6 Patrol Escort, or any number of Lockbox ships. It's amazing how many ships can use cannons these days.
Traits may be a reason for the well-off to buy a ship, but they are never a reason to fly it after its earned.
Welp, I'll still probably buy the set just because my KDF and Rom toons can use those escorts. Least they could of done is integrate the damn cloaking device.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
So how about waiting until (m)any non-specialty ships have it as a feature before you start calling it standard...
I'm not indulging the "specialty" hair-split. It is a Starfleet vessel, period. As for "standard," once you've churned out large numbers of ships with this equipment, it's not reasonable to consider it anything but standard.
Is cloaking technology now firmly established as something that is officially permitted as Starfleet technology? Yes. It is not one-off foreign technology.
It is actually quite exactly "one-off". It was used at precisely one time in three ships. That was more than a year ago. Since then no other ships Fed side got it. So your argument
How many new ships from the 2400s must be released with integrated cloaks before we dispense with the misconception that the technology has no place in Starfleet?
can easily be reversed to "How many new ships from the 2400s must be released without integrated cloaks before we dispense with the misconception that the technology would be used on every Starfleet vessel?" 11 apparently isn't enough.
Because you know, real life militaries have a lot of technologies at their hand that they do not use on each and every vessel. It may just not be necessary for the role of the vessel. It may be too expensive compared to what the ship can do. It may have other disadvantages (conflict with other technology, space limitations - the latter can definitely apply for any Defiant lookalike, so having a cloak take up a console spot makes sense). Certain types of vessels get special equipment, certain types don't.
So yes, a Valiant could be argued to be able to have an integrated cloak. But there is absolutely no "must" here. And the "so others feel special" argument? A "Jack of all trades, master of them all" is boring. So "specialty" does play a part. And yes, different choices need different advantages. Or why must YOUR ship be so special to have it all?
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I'm not indulging the "specialty" hair-split. It is a Starfleet vessel, period.
Oh God, you wanna talk about straw man arguments...
By that logic there are three ships with pilot maneuvers, three ships with gather intel, three ships with inspiration, three T6 ships with secondary deflectors, five ships with hangar pets, seven ships with a baked-in defense bonus, 13+ ships that can mount cannons and they're ALL Starfleet vessels period!
So realistically when they release a T6 Cheyenne it should have integrated cloak, a defense bonus, pilot maneuvers, gather intel, inspiration, a secondary deflector, a hangar pet, and mount cannons. Sure, it's a cruiser not a science vessel, nor an escort, nor a carrier, nor an intelligence ship, nor a command ship, nor a pilot ship... but that's just splitting hairs! These are ALL Starlfeet vessels PERIOD so ALL this stuff should be standard now and my Cheyenne should get them all!
Seriously, you're being ridiculous. They have NOT churned out a large number of ships with integrated cloak, they have given it to THREE, and all of them were intelligence ships. Period. Just like they've given out three secondary deflectors at T6 and they were ALL science vessels... that doesn't make them Starfleet standard, it makes then science vessel standard, much like cloaking is standard on Intelligence ships.
I'm not indulging the "specialty" hair-split. It is a Starfleet vessel, period.
Oh God, you wanna talk about straw man arguments...
By that logic there are three ships with pilot maneuvers, three ships with gather intel, three ships with inspiration, three T6 ships with secondary deflectors, five ships with hangar pets, seven ships with a baked-in defense bonus, 13+ ships that can mount cannons and they're ALL Starfleet vessels period!
So realistically when they release a T6 Cheyenne it should have integrated cloak, a defense bonus, pilot maneuvers, gather intel, inspiration, a secondary deflector, a hangar pet, and mount cannons. Sure, it's a cruiser not a science vessel, nor an escort, nor a carrier, nor an intelligence ship, nor a command ship, nor a pilot ship... but that's just splitting hairs! These are ALL Starlfeet vessels PERIOD so ALL this stuff should be standard now and my Cheyenne should get them all!
Seriously, you're being ridiculous. They have NOT churned out a large number of ships with integrated cloak, they have given it to THREE, and all of them were intelligence ships. Period. Just like they've given out three secondary deflectors at T6 and they were ALL science vessels... that doesn't make them Starfleet standard, it makes then science vessel standard, much like cloaking is standard on Intelligence ships.
Don't ya know. If it doesn't outdo every single goddamn thing before it and in spades, it's suddenly worthless? Granted I think the argument over an integrated cloak is a worthy one, but the trait and torp launcher abilities are nice and it's finally nice to have a tier 6 Defiant in the fleet.
But seriously, this "ERMAGAWD! It's not better than all before it! It's trash! HMPH!" attitude really needs to go.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I think people are suggesting people wanted the pilot, the cloak, and the 5/2 weapons layout. I would have been happy with one of these or even the torp being a locked 5th front weapon that would have been a very satisfying ship to me.
I think the main problem people are having is that we Klingons got a cooler ship than the Feds did
Which is very funny considering the Kor is only a slight bump in stats compared to the T5F-U B'rel. The difference is the Majority of KDF players had more realistic expectations, a few hopes for something a bit different, but not expecting it to be so. Kinda helps that the KDF players are used to being let down by Cryptic by now.
Unrealistic expectations unfulfilled despite tons of T5->T6 conversions already done to see how Cryptic handles it???
I seriously doubt many were surprised by how it was handled- but are upset with the decision that all the iconic ships are third rate ships compared to Cryptic's own designs and lockboxes.
That is not what a Star Trek game should be like.
LOL, you doubt many were surprised? Just LOOK at the presence of this thread and the amount of sheer anguish, shock, horror by Feds
I was warning a bunch of you guys that your unrealistic expectations would set you up for nothing but disappointment. Expectations that the Defiant would be 5/2, Battle Cloaking Escort with Pilot Maneuvers. On top of even veteran players that have absolutely ZERO IDEA what the differences are between a T5U and T6 ship are... It's hilarious to watch.
The funny part is that this whole process repeated itself with each and every T5->T6 conversion that has occurred since Delta Rising came out in October 2014.
I can't fault veteran players for not knowing what to expect when the T6 Intrepid came out after DR hit. Because it was the first one to get the T5->T6 conversion. But there have been many conversions since the T6 Intrepid and each time the playerbase is fuming that the newer ship didn't get some outlandish features (demands) they expected it should. The notion of "Trend Analysis" is an unknown thing for veteran players in this game. The notion of "restraint" in what to realistically expect is nonexistent by veteran players. New players I will never fault because their heads are still in dreamy land with everything being so new.
This funny cycle of outlandish, unrealistic expectations repeated itself with each and every T5->T6 conversion after the T6 Intrepid. The exact same outlandish, unrealistic expectations will occur.
Mark my works: When the Odyssey, Scimitar are up on the block for players to estimate what the stats will generally be like, it's going to fall into these 2 categories:
- Restrained, realistic stat estimates
- Fan-Wanking Expectations. 10 weapon slot Scimitars, anyone? Commander TAC AND ENG stations? Odyssey with built in Cloaks?
Guess which of the 2 estimates types are going to be more prevalent among the playerbase?
Unrealistic expectations unfulfilled despite tons of T5->T6 conversions already done to see how Cryptic handles it???
I seriously doubt many were surprised by how it was handled- but are upset with the decision that all the iconic ships are third rate ships compared to Cryptic's own designs and lockboxes.
That is not what a Star Trek game should be like.
LOL, you doubt many were surprised? Just LOOK at the presence of this thread and the amount of sheer anguish, shock, horror by Feds
I was warning a bunch of you guys that your unrealistic expectations would set you up for nothing but disappointment. Expectations that the Defiant would be 5/2, Battle Cloaking Escort with Pilot Maneuvers. On top of even veteran players that have absolutely ZERO IDEA what the differences are between a T5U and T6 ship are... It's hilarious to watch.
The funny part is that this whole process repeated itself with each and every T5->T6 conversion that has occurred since Delta Rising came out in October 2014.
I can't fault veteran players for not knowing what to expect when the T6 Intrepid came out after DR hit. Because it was the first one to get the T5->T6 conversion. But there have been many conversions since the T6 Intrepid and each time the playerbase is fuming that the newer ship didn't get some outlandish features (demands) they expected it should. The notion of "Trend Analysis" is an unknown thing for veteran players in this game. The notion of "restraint" in what to realistically expect is nonexistent by veteran players. New players I will never fault because their heads are still in dreamy land with everything being so new.
This funny cycle of outlandish, unrealistic expectations repeated itself with each and every T5->T6 conversion after the T6 Intrepid. The exact same outlandish, unrealistic expectations will occur.
Mark my works: When the Odyssey, Scimitar are up on the block for players to estimate what the stats will generally be like, it's going to fall into these 2 categories:
- Restrained, realistic stat estimates
- Fan-Wanking Expectations. 10 weapon slot Scimitars, anyone? Commander TAC AND ENG stations? Odyssey with built in Cloaks?
Guess which of the 2 estimates types are going to be more prevalent among the playerbase?
The second.
I guess I'm one of a rare few who even after being adamant about "no pilot maneuvers=no sale", I still am considering the pack. Would I have liked them? Sure! Would I have liked the 4 shooters to be part of a set, the 3rd piece bonus being battlecloak? Yes. But even to assume right now that I won't be getting them... WOW! That's a lot of "epic fail" posts.
Unrealistic expectations unfulfilled despite tons of T5->T6 conversions already done to see how Cryptic handles it???
I seriously doubt many were surprised by how it was handled- but are upset with the decision that all the iconic ships are third rate ships compared to Cryptic's own designs and lockboxes.
That is not what a Star Trek game should be like.
LOL, you doubt many were surprised? Just LOOK at the presence of this thread and the amount of sheer anguish, shock, horror by Feds
I was warning a bunch of you guys that your unrealistic expectations would set you up for nothing but disappointment. Expectations that the Defiant would be 5/2, Battle Cloaking Escort with Pilot Maneuvers. On top of even veteran players that have absolutely ZERO IDEA what the differences are between a T5U and T6 ship are... It's hilarious to watch.
The funny part is that this whole process repeated itself with each and every T5->T6 conversion that has occurred since Delta Rising came out in October 2014.
...
I don't get it, for exactly the same reasons you mentioned. We've seen T6 updates many times now. And the Devs were consistent in saying that T6 wasn't going to put T5 out of commission. Players freaked out that the devs were lying, but Cryptic's proven very clearly that their intent with T6 was clear all along - small, incremental updates with new shinies.
And now players are losing their minds, crying over the fact that the new ships aren't power creep monsters.
Set Bonuses
•Overcloaked (2 pc) – Passive ◦Reduces the recharge time on Cloak
•Critical Ambush (2 pc) – Passive ◦Grants a bonus to Critical Hit Chance and Critical Severity for a short time after exiting cloak
that's my beef and i'm sticking to it. This has no real reason to be the set for the Defiant since its a normal cloak, and as mentioned about a dozen other times, quad cannons should be a 3 piece bonus..
it boggles my mind so much to see so many disgusted at the idea some are voicing their opinions about the ship and why we are disgruntled with it, when just a few days ago in the redit forums, the devs listened and changed the photon torpedo console into a quantum console... so yes, if its argued well enough such as my beef above about the set bonus the developers should go back and redo it, they would get a sell from me if the bonus made any sense.
While I'm completely un-surprised by the Defiants stats, and agree with several that most of the expectations are entirely unrealistic.
I also agree the set bonus is something of a wasted effort for it. The B'rel/Kor has a battle cloak so it can make decent use of the set bonus, for the defiant, the overcloaked part is entirely worthless and you get to use the bonus to ambush at best once per fight.
I think the reasons for not including the quads is because they are not Tactical Escort specific but can be used on any ship that runs DHC, still it could be used in a set, and its not like the B'rel and Defiant needs to have the same set bonuses in the first place, the T'varo doesn't afterall.
Comments
The technology has no place in all starfleet ships because gameplay variety between factions.
apart from that, Fed T6 ships:
Integrated cloak:
Scryer, Eclipse, Phantom - the three specialized Intelligence ships.
No cloak:
Everybody else (11 to 15 classes, depending on whether you count the command and pilot ships as one class or three)
So basically we only have the Intel ships, which fill a special role that others don't.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
As a consumer I get to decide what I buy or not, when I say boycott I mean me personally, I'm not asking or telling anyone else which ships to buy, but if my choice is between cryptic designed ships with fun mechanics or canon designs without said mechanic (slight buff only) then i may just choose the 3rd way and keep my wallet shut. If this affect cryptics bottom line to the point they can't afford to make/sell new ships, this is my problem how?
I assume this was directed at me?
When a company does something I like I WILL praise them for it (the defiant remodel for example, thankyou cryptic), on the other hand if they do something I don't like I WILL tell them I think they made a mistake (making cryptic designs with OP traits and extra features etc).
This doesn't make me or anyone else a drama queen.
And to be clear, I may still buy the defiant (favourite ship afterall) but it really annoys me that the cryptic designs get the fun features while canon designs just get a slight buff to T6 level.
Makes you wonder if they have any confidence in their own designs to sell at all lol.
(Lets face it cryptic tried leaving canon designs at T5 until they realised they had royally screwed the pooch).
I don't expect anyone to agree with me but this is honestly what I think.
The T6 Gal-X has no integrated cloak. The T6 Avenger has no integrated cloak. Only three ships have integrated cloaks... the intelligence ships. You're doing the equivalent of saying pilot maneuvers are now standard because, "Look at all the ships with pilot maneuvers!" (which, btw, is also three, and all pilot ships much like integrated cloaks are all intelligence ships).
So how about waiting until (m)any non-specialty ships have it as a feature before you start calling it standard...
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm not indulging the "specialty" hair-split. It is a Starfleet vessel, period. As for "standard," once you've churned out large numbers of ships with this equipment, it's not reasonable to consider it anything but standard.
Is cloaking technology now firmly established as something that is officially permitted as Starfleet technology? Yes. It is not one-off foreign technology. It is not a special circumstance. It is a "dealership" option at the shipyards, just like any other. So there is no objective, technical reason why any Starfleet vessel can't have an integrated cloak, even in the game's "lore."
As for why it shouldn't have one, it's now basically reduced to some people wanting their ships to feel more special, which is not the least bit compelling.
It wasn't unreasonable or unrealistic to ask for an integrated cloak, and that would not have amounted to some ridiculously overpowered vessel that renders all other T6 escorts obsolete. Both of those arguments are 100% strawman.
You, me, some others expected the ranting was going to happen anyways.
Unrealistic expectations unfulfilled despite tons of T5->T6 conversions already done to see how Cryptic handles it???
FAIL!
It was funny reading about the requests to turn Defiant into a 5/2, Battle Cloaking Escort with Pilot Maneuvers. No sense of restraint in what to realistically expect.
I seriously doubt many were surprised by how it was handled- but are upset with the decision that all the iconic ships are third rate ships compared to Cryptic's own designs and lockboxes.
That is not what a Star Trek game should be like.
All I need to say, is that the Defiant is going to have an ability that makes CSV last what 5 seconds longer, considering the cool down, you can spam CSV faster than ships can spam FAW.
And you think that is worthless?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Cannons, so yes not all that interesting. And the trait isn't locked to the ship, it can be moved to better ones.
Like what pray tell?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
poor gene.
I'm just not gonna bother explianing what your missing but I'm gonna leave a clue. your starfleet, not romulans, klingons or any of the minor races with cloak.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Like the Intel escort*, Command Ships, Pilot Ships, the upcoming T6 Patrol Escort, or any number of Lockbox ships. It's amazing how many ships can use cannons these days.
Traits may be a reason for the well-off to buy a ship, but they are never a reason to fly it after its earned.
*just one of the three
Welp, I'll still probably buy the set just because my KDF and Rom toons can use those escorts. Least they could of done is integrate the damn cloaking device.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
It is actually quite exactly "one-off". It was used at precisely one time in three ships. That was more than a year ago. Since then no other ships Fed side got it. So your argument
can easily be reversed to "How many new ships from the 2400s must be released without integrated cloaks before we dispense with the misconception that the technology would be used on every Starfleet vessel?" 11 apparently isn't enough.
Because you know, real life militaries have a lot of technologies at their hand that they do not use on each and every vessel. It may just not be necessary for the role of the vessel. It may be too expensive compared to what the ship can do. It may have other disadvantages (conflict with other technology, space limitations - the latter can definitely apply for any Defiant lookalike, so having a cloak take up a console spot makes sense). Certain types of vessels get special equipment, certain types don't.
So yes, a Valiant could be argued to be able to have an integrated cloak. But there is absolutely no "must" here. And the "so others feel special" argument? A "Jack of all trades, master of them all" is boring. So "specialty" does play a part. And yes, different choices need different advantages. Or why must YOUR ship be so special to have it all?
Oh God, you wanna talk about straw man arguments...
By that logic there are three ships with pilot maneuvers, three ships with gather intel, three ships with inspiration, three T6 ships with secondary deflectors, five ships with hangar pets, seven ships with a baked-in defense bonus, 13+ ships that can mount cannons and they're ALL Starfleet vessels period!
So realistically when they release a T6 Cheyenne it should have integrated cloak, a defense bonus, pilot maneuvers, gather intel, inspiration, a secondary deflector, a hangar pet, and mount cannons. Sure, it's a cruiser not a science vessel, nor an escort, nor a carrier, nor an intelligence ship, nor a command ship, nor a pilot ship... but that's just splitting hairs! These are ALL Starlfeet vessels PERIOD so ALL this stuff should be standard now and my Cheyenne should get them all!
Seriously, you're being ridiculous. They have NOT churned out a large number of ships with integrated cloak, they have given it to THREE, and all of them were intelligence ships. Period. Just like they've given out three secondary deflectors at T6 and they were ALL science vessels... that doesn't make them Starfleet standard, it makes then science vessel standard, much like cloaking is standard on Intelligence ships.
Don't ya know. If it doesn't outdo every single goddamn thing before it and in spades, it's suddenly worthless? Granted I think the argument over an integrated cloak is a worthy one, but the trait and torp launcher abilities are nice and it's finally nice to have a tier 6 Defiant in the fleet.
But seriously, this "ERMAGAWD! It's not better than all before it! It's trash! HMPH!" attitude really needs to go.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Ands Feds don't get a battlecloak.
What is so hard to understand about this concept???
Which is very funny considering the Kor is only a slight bump in stats compared to the T5F-U B'rel. The difference is the Majority of KDF players had more realistic expectations, a few hopes for something a bit different, but not expecting it to be so. Kinda helps that the KDF players are used to being let down by Cryptic by now.
LOL, you doubt many were surprised? Just LOOK at the presence of this thread and the amount of sheer anguish, shock, horror by Feds
I was warning a bunch of you guys that your unrealistic expectations would set you up for nothing but disappointment. Expectations that the Defiant would be 5/2, Battle Cloaking Escort with Pilot Maneuvers. On top of even veteran players that have absolutely ZERO IDEA what the differences are between a T5U and T6 ship are... It's hilarious to watch.
The funny part is that this whole process repeated itself with each and every T5->T6 conversion that has occurred since Delta Rising came out in October 2014.
I can't fault veteran players for not knowing what to expect when the T6 Intrepid came out after DR hit. Because it was the first one to get the T5->T6 conversion. But there have been many conversions since the T6 Intrepid and each time the playerbase is fuming that the newer ship didn't get some outlandish features (demands) they expected it should. The notion of "Trend Analysis" is an unknown thing for veteran players in this game. The notion of "restraint" in what to realistically expect is nonexistent by veteran players. New players I will never fault because their heads are still in dreamy land with everything being so new.
This funny cycle of outlandish, unrealistic expectations repeated itself with each and every T5->T6 conversion after the T6 Intrepid. The exact same outlandish, unrealistic expectations will occur.
Mark my works: When the Odyssey, Scimitar are up on the block for players to estimate what the stats will generally be like, it's going to fall into these 2 categories:
- Restrained, realistic stat estimates
- Fan-Wanking Expectations. 10 weapon slot Scimitars, anyone? Commander TAC AND ENG stations? Odyssey with built in Cloaks?
Guess which of the 2 estimates types are going to be more prevalent among the playerbase?
The second.
I guess I'm one of a rare few who even after being adamant about "no pilot maneuvers=no sale", I still am considering the pack. Would I have liked them? Sure! Would I have liked the 4 shooters to be part of a set, the 3rd piece bonus being battlecloak? Yes. But even to assume right now that I won't be getting them... WOW! That's a lot of "epic fail" posts.
I don't get it, for exactly the same reasons you mentioned. We've seen T6 updates many times now. And the Devs were consistent in saying that T6 wasn't going to put T5 out of commission. Players freaked out that the devs were lying, but Cryptic's proven very clearly that their intent with T6 was clear all along - small, incremental updates with new shinies.
And now players are losing their minds, crying over the fact that the new ships aren't power creep monsters.
Set Bonuses
•Overcloaked (2 pc) – Passive ◦Reduces the recharge time on Cloak
•Critical Ambush (2 pc) – Passive ◦Grants a bonus to Critical Hit Chance and Critical Severity for a short time after exiting cloak
that's my beef and i'm sticking to it. This has no real reason to be the set for the Defiant since its a normal cloak, and as mentioned about a dozen other times, quad cannons should be a 3 piece bonus..
it boggles my mind so much to see so many disgusted at the idea some are voicing their opinions about the ship and why we are disgruntled with it, when just a few days ago in the redit forums, the devs listened and changed the photon torpedo console into a quantum console... so yes, if its argued well enough such as my beef above about the set bonus the developers should go back and redo it, they would get a sell from me if the bonus made any sense.
I also agree the set bonus is something of a wasted effort for it. The B'rel/Kor has a battle cloak so it can make decent use of the set bonus, for the defiant, the overcloaked part is entirely worthless and you get to use the bonus to ambush at best once per fight.
I think the reasons for not including the quads is because they are not Tactical Escort specific but can be used on any ship that runs DHC, still it could be used in a set, and its not like the B'rel and Defiant needs to have the same set bonuses in the first place, the T'varo doesn't afterall.