Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I have to admit, there may be a point coming where I drop all but basic cable service, and if that happens, that will change my budget picture noticeably...and make this a little easier to swallow if push comes to shove and there is NOT a delayed rebroadcast on normal TV.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Will it be good for CBS if it's wildly successful? Sure.
The real question is are there enough Star Trek fans (old or new) to make it viable long-term? That only time will tell.
I think if it's good people will watch it. Look at the reboot Battlestar Galactica. How many BSG fans were there before the show aired? The show was so good that people who weren't fans watched the show. Star Trek needs that kind of crossover appeal.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I have to admit, there may be a point coming where I drop all but basic cable service, and if that happens, that will change my budget picture noticeably...and make this a little easier to swallow if push comes to shove and there is NOT a delayed rebroadcast on normal TV.
I believe we are heading for a point where 'normal tv' will become something entirely different.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
@khan5000, Eventually so--I believe that "TV" will become completely synonymous with the Internet. I actually don't think I'd object to this streaming thing so much if we were already at that end state, which I think is likely to be purchasing channels or shows entirely a la carte, or at least via service packages that are much narrower and more targeted than all the unwatched TRIBBLE I am currently paying for. I mean, I care about only a few specific things on my TV: local news, national news, sports, and if I had the option to pay for specific shows on demand when I felt like it...that is ALL I want. The only reason I HAVE cable is because you can't get cable news elsewhere, or all the college football games I'd like to watch. Otherwise I'd be happy to go streaming only.
It's this halfway state that is obnoxious and painful, if you ask me. THAT is what I cannot stand and why the paywall annoys me, because I am already being completely screwed over by the cable company. I'm sure the satellite companies will fight it until the very bitter end...whereas at least the cable and phone companies still have at least some future ahead of them as bandwidth/LTE providers until Google Fiber finally destroys them.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I think if it's good people will watch it. Look at the reboot Battlestar Galactica. How many BSG fans were there before the show aired? The show was so good that people who weren't fans watched the show. Star Trek needs that kind of crossover appeal.
But how successful would BSG have been if people had to shell out 6 bucks a month to get it? But yeah I hear what you're saying. We can only hope for that level of quality.
@khan5000, Eventually so--I believe that "TV" will become completely synonymous with the Internet. I actually don't think I'd object to this streaming thing so much if we were already at that end state, which I think is likely to be purchasing channels or shows entirely a la carte, or at least via service packages that are much narrower and more targeted than all the unwatched TRIBBLE I am currently paying for. I mean, I care about only a few specific things on my TV: local news, national news, sports, and if I had the option to pay for specific shows on demand when I felt like it...that is ALL I want. The only reason I HAVE cable is because you can't get cable news elsewhere, or all the college football games I'd like to watch. Otherwise I'd be happy to go streaming only.
It's this halfway state that is obnoxious and painful, if you ask me. THAT is what I cannot stand and why the paywall annoys me, because I am already being completely screwed over by the cable company. I'm sure the satellite companies will fight it until the very bitter end...whereas at least the cable and phone companies still have at least some future ahead of them as bandwidth/LTE providers until Google Fiber finally destroys them.
I agree. This was the only part of the news that caused me concern.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I think if it's good people will watch it. Look at the reboot Battlestar Galactica. How many BSG fans were there before the show aired? The show was so good that people who weren't fans watched the show. Star Trek needs that kind of crossover appeal.
But how successful would BSG have been if people had to shell out 6 bucks a month to get it? But yeah I hear what you're saying. We can only hope for that level of quality.
I know people who only subscribe to HBOGo for Game of Thrones. If the show is good people will subscribe.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
@khan5000, Eventually so--I believe that "TV" will become completely synonymous with the Internet. I actually don't think I'd object to this streaming thing so much if we were already at that end state, which I think is likely to be purchasing channels or shows entirely a la carte, or at least via service packages that are much narrower and more targeted than all the unwatched TRIBBLE I am currently paying for. I mean, I care about only a few specific things on my TV: local news, national news, sports, and if I had the option to pay for specific shows on demand when I felt like it...that is ALL I want. The only reason I HAVE cable is because you can't get cable news elsewhere, or all the college football games I'd like to watch. Otherwise I'd be happy to go streaming only.
It's this halfway state that is obnoxious and painful, if you ask me. THAT is what I cannot stand and why the paywall annoys me, because I am already being completely screwed over by the cable company. I'm sure the satellite companies will fight it until the very bitter end...whereas at least the cable and phone companies still have at least some future ahead of them as bandwidth/LTE providers until Google Fiber finally destroys them.
I agree. This was the only part of the news that caused me concern.
I did look over my cable bill today, and I do at least see where I can cut a $6.99 per month amount easily. I was carrying a subscription to Latino programs for Spanish language practice but I think I will do better with free streaming services for that since I am not a native speaker, and there are more options out there now than when I first subscribed to that service.
Right now short of dropping cable service entirely, I may have the TV part of my bill down as low as it goes. Still, I'll ask the question of the cable company though when I drop the one extra service I had, just to see if I can snag a promo deal or any other kind of cost savings.
But worst case scenario where neither a delayed rebroadcast nor Amazon Prime are options, making that one change will leave me with enough extra in my pocket to offset the CBS subscription.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I read an interview after Star Trek had come out and I don't remember if it was the writers or the JJ himself but they mentioned that the universe was out of alignment when the Narada went back in time and so it was trying to make things right...so a lot of the coincidences was the universe fixing itself...the crew coming together....Kirk landing on the same planet as Spock and Scotty. I'll try to find it.
I have heard something along those lines as to the presence of the Narada throwing everything out of whack and the resultant changes, and that's essentially the three-part crux of my issue with JJ's Trek films:
- Would the shuttles fleeing the Kelvin have been able to have made such sufficiently detailed scans to allow Starfleet to reverse engineer the technological advances seen? I know the capability is plot-dependent, but personally, I would have thought no...
- While the impact on the lives of Jim and Sam Kirk would indeed be significant, ripples touching on the lives of Chekov, Scotty, etc, I would have considered less likely, so again, comes across as contrivances rather than natural plot flow... (although I did like that the Spock/Uhura relationship hinted at in Charlie X was resurrected if indeed the writers were aware of that, and not simply deliberately trying to have something different, just for the purpose of putting a different angle on something for the sake of it)
- I consider it very weak on the part of JJ as a director, that he has to rely on articles, comics, interviews and deleted scenes to explain plot holes, rather than simply addressing them on screen. Yes, sometimes a writer might later explain something which is either not immediately obvious, or perhaps specifically explaining their direct intent as author to clarify a point, but the extent to which JJ relies on it via supplementary material (comics/deleted scenes) goes beyond that clarification, into intentional reliance on supplementary material, rather than simply covering the bases to start off with...
Those issues aside, an AU series wouldn't bother me, I just don't want to see change for change's sake, when it's not necessary...
I read an interview after Star Trek had come out and I don't remember if it was the writers or the JJ himself but they mentioned that the universe was out of alignment when the Narada went back in time and so it was trying to make things right...so a lot of the coincidences was the universe fixing itself...the crew coming together....Kirk landing on the same planet as Spock and Scotty. I'll try to find it.
I have heard something along those lines as to the presence of the Narada throwing everything out of whack and the resultant changes, and that's essentially the three-part crux of my issue with JJ's Trek films:
- Would the shuttles fleeing the Kelvin have been able to have made such sufficiently detailed scans to allow Starfleet to reverse engineer the technological advances seen? I know the capability is plot-dependent, but personally, I would have thought no...
- While the impact on the lives of Jim and Sam Kirk would indeed be significant, ripples touching on the lives of Chekov, Scotty, etc, I would have considered less likely, so again, comes across as contrivances rather than natural plot flow... (although I did like that the Spock/Uhura relationship hinted at in Charlie X was resurrected if indeed the writers were aware of that, and not simply deliberately trying to have something different, just for the purpose of putting a different angle on something for the sake of it)
- I consider it very weak on the part of JJ as a director, that he has to rely on articles, comics, interviews and deleted scenes to explain plot holes, rather than simply addressing them on screen. Yes, sometimes a writer might later explain something which is either not immediately obvious, or perhaps specifically explaining their direct intent as author to clarify a point, but the extent to which JJ relies on it via supplementary material (comics/deleted scenes) goes beyond that clarification, into intentional reliance on supplementary material, rather than simply covering the bases to start off with...
Those issues aside, an AU series wouldn't bother me, I just don't want to see change for change's sake, when it's not necessary...
The writers have said they did a lot of research on Memory Alpha so they may have got the idea of Spock and Uhura from Charlie X. I believe in the story that the Narada and crew were captured by the Klingons and they escaped. I imagine that the Klingons took extensive scans of the ship and if Star Fleet Intelligence is up to the task may have gotten their hands on the designs. Or with the Narada disabled after Thor rammed it the shuttles could have been free to scan the ship as much as they want.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
Nope, I don't want to re-think anything. You simply don't understand my point. Yes, a series set post Nemesis will have the history of everything from ENT through Nemesis. However, that is all in the past. That doesn't affect them at all unless they want to do some kind of time travel story into the past. But going forward into the timeline they can do absolutely anything they want, because there is no canon rules post Nemesis, with the one exception of the events that brought old Spock into the JJ-verse.
I understood, but I'm not so sure you do. Yes, they can do anything they want plot-wise, but as I mentioned, we shouldn't be seeing Laughing Vulcans or pink Andorians (or even four-armed Andorians, according to a deviantArt page I once saw) There is still canon which a new series needs to adhere to, in order to comtinue to call itself Star Trek, rather than just being The New Sci-Fi Series...
Laughing vulcans? Pink Adorians? WTH are you talking about? My post, which you took issue with, was saying that post-Nemesis gives them the most story-telling freedom, because there is no canon already in place about that time frame. Do you actually disagree with that point?
The writers have said they did a lot of research on Memory Alpha so they may have got the idea of Spock and Uhura from Charlie X.
Yes, that's certainly possible, and if they did indeed do so, then all good. But if it was simply a matter of "What can we do differently...?" and it was coincidental, that's when I take exception to changes, and feel that if they want to do things differently, they could just have done A Sci-Fi movie, not used the Trek characters, and put out a sci-fi film about a mining ship that comes back from the future seeking Revenge... And that, is my fear for a series with Kurtzman at the helm... From his other series, yes, it could be good, but the likelihood of revisionsim makes me uncomfortable. I'd rather he just release his own series and call it Galaxy Ranger Quest or something, rather than being given the Trek franchise, and remaking it in his own image. That's not to say that it'll happen, but that's my fear...
I believe in the story that the Narada and crew were captured by the Klingons and they escaped. I imagine that the Klingons took extensive scans of the ship and if Star Fleet Intelligence is up to the task may have gotten their hands on the designs.
Yes, they were captured by the Klingons and eventually escaped (just in time to resume Nero's quest for Revenge)
But none of that comes from the movie, and that is precisely my point. It's sloppy of JJ to require additional material to tell his story and make it make sense (but also a great marketing tactic, as it means rubes will spend the $$s to get the full scoop...)
Re Starfleet intelligence, I'm not 100% sure if they were operating on captured Klingon files, or the sensor logs from the Kelvin shuttles...
Or with the Narada disabled after Thor rammed it the shuttles could have been free to scan the ship as much as they want.
The crew aboard the shuttles may not have known if the Narada was disabled or not, and certainly appeared to be simply trying to get away from it as quickly as possible, somewhat limiting the opportunity for detailed scans... As above, plot requirement determines wether said shuttles were all equipped with high-end sensor capabilities, or if they were little more than glorified escape-pods*, so while it is something of a Schroedinger's Cat scenario regarding sensor capacity, it's certainly a pretty tenuous plot point to rely on explaining all Starfleet's enhanced militarism and boosted technology, on scans taken by shuttles fleeing the area (and indeed, if the shuttle scans providing said data was even acknowledged as the source on screen)
*The amount of shuttles seen (and no escape pods) suggests that they were the method for abandoning ship aboard the Einstein-Class
- I consider it very weak on the part of JJ as a director, that he has to rely on articles, comics, interviews and deleted scenes to explain plot holes, rather than simply addressing them on screen. Yes, sometimes a writer might later explain something which is either not immediately obvious, or perhaps specifically explaining their direct intent as author to clarify a point, but the extent to which JJ relies on it via supplementary material (comics/deleted scenes) goes beyond that clarification, into intentional reliance on supplementary material, rather than simply covering the bases to start off with...
JJ Abrams had to rely on those because the plot holes were so gapingly enormous you could drive an entire galaxy through them with room to spare. That's what happens when you have bad story writing.
The writers have said they did a lot of research on Memory Alpha so they may have got the idea of Spock and Uhura from Charlie X.
Yes, that's certainly possible, and if they did indeed do so, then all good. But if it was simply a matter of "What can we do differently...?" and it was coincidental, that's when I take exception to changes, and feel that if they want to do things differently, they cluld just have done A Sci-Fi movie, not used the Trek characters, and put out a sci-fi film about a mining ship that comes back from the future seeking Revenge... And that, is my fear for a series with Kurtzman at the helm... From his other series, yes, it could be good, but the likelihood of revisionsim makes me uncomfortable. I'd rather he just release his own series and call it Galaxy Ranger Quest or something, rather than being given the Trek franchise, and remaking it in his own image. That's not to say that it'll happen, but that's my fear...
I believe in the story that the Narada and crew were captured by the Klingons and they escaped. I imagine that the Klingons took extensive scans of the ship and if Star Fleet Intelligence is up to the task may have gotten their hands on the designs.
Yes, they were captured by the Klingons and eventually escaped (just in time to resume Nero's quest for Revenge)
But none of that comes from the movie, and that is precisely my point. It's sloppy of JJ to require additional material to tell his story and make it make sense (but also a great marketing tactic, as it means rubes will spend the $$s to get the full scoop...)
Re Starfleet intelligence, I'm not 100% sure if they were operating on captured Klingon files, or the sensor logs from the Kelvin shuttles...
Or with the Narada disabled after Thor rammed it the shuttles could have been free to scan the ship as much as they want.
The crew aboard the shuttles may not have known if the Narada was disabled or not, and certainly appeared to be simply trying to get away from it as quickly as possible, somewhat limiting the opportunity for detailed scans... As above, plot requirement determines wether said shuttles were all equipped with high-end sensor capabilities, or if they were little more than glorified escape-pods*, so while it is something of a Schroedinger's Cat scenario regarding sensor capacity, it's certainly a pretty tenuous plot point to rely i
on exxplaining all Starfleet's enhanced militarism and boosted technology, on scans taken by shuttles fleeing the area (and indeed, if the shuttle scans providing said data was even acknowledged as the source on screen)
*The amount of shuttles seen (and no escape pods) suggests that they were the method for abandoning ship aboard the Einstein-Class
That is the point of setting it in an alternate reality...to make it different. It's not supposed to be Kirk and Spock as you know them but as different characters...just like the Mirror Universe.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The writers have said they did a lot of research on Memory Alpha so they may have got the idea of Spock and Uhura from Charlie X.
Yes, that's certainly possible, and if they did indeed do so, then all good. But if it was simply a matter of "What can we do differently...?" and it was coincidental, that's when I take exception to changes, and feel that if they want to do things differently, they cluld just have done A Sci-Fi movie, not used the Trek characters, and put out a sci-fi film about a mining ship that comes back from the future seeking Revenge... And that, is my fear for a series with Kurtzman at the helm... From his other series, yes, it could be good, but the likelihood of revisionsim makes me uncomfortable. I'd rather he just release his own series and call it Galaxy Ranger Quest or something, rather than being given the Trek franchise, and remaking it in his own image. That's not to say that it'll happen, but that's my fear...
I believe in the story that the Narada and crew were captured by the Klingons and they escaped. I imagine that the Klingons took extensive scans of the ship and if Star Fleet Intelligence is up to the task may have gotten their hands on the designs.
Yes, they were captured by the Klingons and eventually escaped (just in time to resume Nero's quest for Revenge)
But none of that comes from the movie, and that is precisely my point. It's sloppy of JJ to require additional material to tell his story and make it make sense (but also a great marketing tactic, as it means rubes will spend the $$s to get the full scoop...)
Re Starfleet intelligence, I'm not 100% sure if they were operating on captured Klingon files, or the sensor logs from the Kelvin shuttles...
Or with the Narada disabled after Thor rammed it the shuttles could have been free to scan the ship as much as they want.
The crew aboard the shuttles may not have known if the Narada was disabled or not, and certainly appeared to be simply trying to get away from it as quickly as possible, somewhat limiting the opportunity for detailed scans... As above, plot requirement determines wether said shuttles were all equipped with high-end sensor capabilities, or if they were little more than glorified escape-pods*, so while it is something of a Schroedinger's Cat scenario regarding sensor capacity, it's certainly a pretty tenuous plot point to rely i
on exxplaining all Starfleet's enhanced militarism and boosted technology, on scans taken by shuttles fleeing the area (and indeed, if the shuttle scans providing said data was even acknowledged as the source on screen)
*The amount of shuttles seen (and no escape pods) suggests that they were the method for abandoning ship aboard the Einstein-Class
That is the point of setting it in an alternate reality...to make it different. It's not supposed to be Kirk and Spock as you know them but as different characters...just like the Mirror Universe.
Not exactly. In the Mirror Universe the characters are completely different than their "normal" versions. In the JJ-verse they are supposed to be almost the same, just a little more modern and "sexy".
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
Nope, I don't want to re-think anything. You simply don't understand my point. Yes, a series set post Nemesis will have the history of everything from ENT through Nemesis. However, that is all in the past. That doesn't affect them at all unless they want to do some kind of time travel story into the past. But going forward into the timeline they can do absolutely anything they want, because there is no canon rules post Nemesis, with the one exception of the events that brought old Spock into the JJ-verse.
I understood, but I'm not so sure you do. Yes, they can do anything they want plot-wise, but as I mentioned, we shouldn't be seeing Laughing Vulcans or pink Andorians (or even four-armed Andorians, according to a deviantArt page I once saw) There is still canon which a new series needs to adhere to, in order to comtinue to call itself Star Trek, rather than just being The New Sci-Fi Series...
Laughing vulcans? Pink Adorians? WTH are you talking about? My post, which you took issue with, was saying that post-Nemesis gives them the most story-telling freedom, because there is no canon already in place about that time frame. Do you actually disagree with that point?
On rereading, marcus, I think this may be the crux of the "disagreement", and I'm not even sure it is one really. Sure, in any Trek series they're going to have to deal with the Trek universe - there's a United Federation of Planets, there are Klingons and Romulans and Cardassians, all that sort of thing. Those are extremely minor constraints.
On the other hand, in a series set in the example of the Earth-Romulus War, we can't have, say, an episode in which Our Heroes have to form a temporary alliance with an alien captain to fight some greater threat, because we already know that never happened - remember, it's important that no Human see any Romulan until TOS. (That is, assuming we are using the Prime universe; in any other universe, we can use whatever constraints we want, but will only see even greater complaints from the fanbase (cf Abrams).) That's what I mean about the writers in a prequel series having their hands tied - there are certain kinds of stories we can't tell in a prequel.
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
Nope, I don't want to re-think anything. You simply don't understand my point. Yes, a series set post Nemesis will have the history of everything from ENT through Nemesis. However, that is all in the past. That doesn't affect them at all unless they want to do some kind of time travel story into the past. But going forward into the timeline they can do absolutely anything they want, because there is no canon rules post Nemesis, with the one exception of the events that brought old Spock into the JJ-verse.
I understood, but I'm not so sure you do. Yes, they can do anything they want plot-wise, but as I mentioned, we shouldn't be seeing Laughing Vulcans or pink Andorians (or even four-armed Andorians, according to a deviantArt page I once saw) There is still canon which a new series needs to adhere to, in order to comtinue to call itself Star Trek, rather than just being The New Sci-Fi Series...
Laughing vulcans? Pink Adorians? WTH are you talking about? My post, which you took issue with, was saying that post-Nemesis gives them the most story-telling freedom, because there is no canon already in place about that time frame. Do you actually disagree with that point?
On rereading, marcus, I think this may be the crux of the "disagreement", and I'm not even sure it is one really. Sure, in any Trek series they're going to have to deal with the Trek universe - there's a United Federation of Planets, there are Klingons and Romulans and Cardassians, all that sort of thing. Those are extremely minor constraints.
On the other hand, in a series set in the example of the Earth-Romulus War, we can't have, say, an episode in which Our Heroes have to form a temporary alliance with an alien captain to fight some greater threat, because we already know that never happened - remember, it's important that no Human see any Romulan until TOS. (That is, assuming we are using the Prime universe; in any other universe, we can use whatever constraints we want, but will only see even greater complaints from the fanbase (cf Abrams).) That's what I mean about the writers in a prequel series having their hands tied - there are certain kinds of stories we can't tell in a prequel.
concerning the fed /romulan war if they did do it and went by the TOS canon then each time the hero would encounter a romulan vessel the romulans would only contact using audio only.
This was layed out during BoT that no one knew what romulans looked like because
1) those who seen them died before reporting back
2) The romulans only contacted other races using audio only ( Btw from what i understand that was the only form of comms during that period. if were going by TOS and the lore that was described during BoT )
About the Romulans not being seen, it's also worth considering that the characters who make statements like that are not infallible or omniscient. Sometimes a character is saying what they think or believe to be true, and can be wrong or misinformed. While I'm not saying this is the case, it is hypothetically possible that a secret meeting could have taken place between the Federation and Romulans, but have been classified and never made public, and therefore the general public and even most members of the military would have no idea it happened and would think a Romulan had never been seen. Again, I'm not saying that happened, it is just an example of how writers can "get around" statements characters make without blatantly contradicting storylines.
I love evidence-free speculation as much as anyone, but we'll only get a good sense of the fidelity of the new series once we find out who is working on it. If Manny Coto gets involved, or the Okudas, we will at least know that it is real Trek regardless of universe, timeframe, or dimension.
Will it be good for CBS if it's wildly successful? Sure.
The real question is are there enough Star Trek fans (old or new) to make it viable long-term? That only time will tell.
I think if it's good people will watch it. Look at the reboot Battlestar Galactica. How many BSG fans were there before the show aired? The show was so good that people who weren't fans watched the show. Star Trek needs that kind of crossover appeal.
Agreed. All Star Trek fans were once people who were not Star Trek fans. And the number of current fans is slowly dwindling, thus you always need more fans.
Will it be good for CBS if it's wildly successful? Sure.
The real question is are there enough Star Trek fans (old or new) to make it viable long-term? That only time will tell.
I think if it's good people will watch it. Look at the reboot Battlestar Galactica. How many BSG fans were there before the show aired? The show was so good that people who weren't fans watched the show. Star Trek needs that kind of crossover appeal.
But of course, there are also strong naysayers that hate the new Battlestar Galactica.
I don't. It's my favorite franchise and in some ways it rivals Star Trek for me. But any show with an established fanbase will probably face some people that hate the new stuff. And Star Trek will certainly not be exempt from this suddenly.
The interesting question will be how many new viewers can Star Trek attract with a new series.
Yes, and the Romulans do not take prisoners. So unless there was a boarding party there would be no opportunity to ever see the enemy.
Even if they don't take prisoners, the humans would take prisoners. that suggests that the Romulans were never beaten in a way that allowed taking prisoners or looking at their corpses. That seems so unlikely and hard to believe.
All the Romulan ships must have exploded and burned or disintegrated all the corpses. There must never have been any ground engagements the Romulans lost.
What kind of war could really leave behind no traces of the soldiers that fought in it?
It might make more sense to assume that the characters in the episode where we got that information were ill-informed. Maybe it was a deliberate desinformation policy because people hate racial hatred against the Vulcans or something.
It's the same with the Romulan ship having no warp drive. It must have some kind of FTL capability, otherwise it can't possible perform its function. Maybe it was an unusual type of warp drive or FTL drive they didn't recognize, or it had a Carrier ship with FTL capability that had long retreated (but even that doesn't really work, because the ship attacked multiple outposts across the neutral zone - unless it's all confined to a single star system, without FTL this is not going to happen.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
From his other series, yes, it could be good, but the likelihood of revisionsim makes me uncomfortable. I'd rather he just release his own series and call it Galaxy Ranger Quest or something, rather than being given the Trek franchise, and remaking it in his own image. That's not to say that it'll happen, but that's my fear...
Question: what's wrong with revisionism? We have a whole set of laws built around letting creative works enter the public domain so they can be spun off into new flavors. Take Forbidden Planet--would you say it suffers because it's a revisionist version of Shakespeare's The Tempest?
IMO, the problem with JJ-Trek isn't that it did things differently, it's that it did them badly. If a reboot can be done well, is it really a bad thing that it doesn't quite fit with the original work?
That is the point of setting it in an alternate reality...to make it different. It's not supposed to be Kirk and Spock as you know them but as different characters...just like the Mirror Universe.
I understand that (well actually, I don't, because I think if it's supposed to be different characters, why not just write, y'know, different characters and be done with it...) but my point, is that the presense of the Narada would not have affected things related to the Kelvin, things such as the amount of shuttles aboard, the type of phaser turrets being used, the aesthetics of the ship itself, all of which, were of a PrimeVerse Wrath of Khan Era-level, not ToS Era-level. The fact that the ships then remained essentially unchanged, or rather, unadvanced, (with the exception of the Enterprise) (and illustrated by the taskforce heading to Vulcan) actually shows that the claimed 'advancement of the fleet because of scans of the scary alien ship' simply didn't happen. That was just a hand-wave excuse for why they as writers didn't maintain consistency, which doesn't hold up to scrutiny. While it may hold validity for explaining subsequent events, such as the earlier-than-Prime discovery of the Botany Bay, it doesn't really hold water when applied to the original movie, because the Kelvin itself shows the 'native baseline' for that Verse's technology way before the Narada ever showed up.
All the other stuff which was in supplementary material, ie Nero and co getting caltured by the Klingons, is nothing more than stories being written after the fact which could plausibly fill the holes... If that had actually been the case all along, then Nero would have ranted that he had spent the entirity of Kirk's life under the lash in a Klingon prison, only to escape to continue his quest. But he didn't. Because JJ and co never thought of it at the time... And it's that kind of sloppy writing, that gives me concerns about Kurtzman serving as EP of the new series... How much of that attitude and sloppy ethic will continue? Will people have to buy a comic each week to explain the plot holes of that week's episode? Sure, it's a great way to sell comics, but it's a lousy way to conduct a TV series...
Personally, something I would like to see, is if the new Trek series was more directly linked to STO, in the same way that the series and game of Defiance were linked. Something like that would really give viewers a sense of connection to the show. The world (and TV) is different to what it was during the Golden Era of Trek (TNG/DS-9/VOY) Back then, I could only watch the episodes and admire the actors from afar. Now, I can just message them on facebook, or meet them at conventions. Star Trek Continues, for example, I can both watch, as a viewer, and engage with in terms of funding, conversation with the cast, etc. It's very different to how things used to be, and that creates a different dynamic between producer and audience. How cool would it be say, to enter a competition of some kind either in game or on forum, where the prize, is that your ship is somehow incorporated into an upcoming episode? Maybe Captain Someone gets namedropped in conversation, or Ensign HotChick gets cast as a live character, or the USS Random appears in a space-scene... How badass would that be?? Sure beats the times when an astronaut, a prince, or a musician managed to snag cameos, this would be something attainable by anyone... The only character I personally could convincingly play on-screen would be a Bolian barber (like all those fat Jedi who haunt conventions... Never saw a fat Jedi on screen...) but anyone's ship could be modelled by the FX team to be inserted for a fleet scene... Very different to just watching TV and drooling over a poster or sending fanmail to the studio... If the new series is going to be using a new medium, they may as well fully explore that to heighten engagement, which would only increase audience numbers, and with actual fans, not just casual 'viewers'...
Comments
http://news.yahoo.com/why-cbss-star-trek-show-161100791.html;_ylt=A0LEVyuRGjlWDe0AVahXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybDZvNmFxBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjEyMDNfMQRzZWMDc2M-
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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The real question is are there enough Star Trek fans (old or new) to make it viable long-term? That only time will tell.
I think if it's good people will watch it. Look at the reboot Battlestar Galactica. How many BSG fans were there before the show aired? The show was so good that people who weren't fans watched the show. Star Trek needs that kind of crossover appeal.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I believe we are heading for a point where 'normal tv' will become something entirely different.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It's this halfway state that is obnoxious and painful, if you ask me. THAT is what I cannot stand and why the paywall annoys me, because I am already being completely screwed over by the cable company. I'm sure the satellite companies will fight it until the very bitter end...whereas at least the cable and phone companies still have at least some future ahead of them as bandwidth/LTE providers until Google Fiber finally destroys them.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I agree. This was the only part of the news that caused me concern.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I know people who only subscribe to HBOGo for Game of Thrones. If the show is good people will subscribe.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I did look over my cable bill today, and I do at least see where I can cut a $6.99 per month amount easily. I was carrying a subscription to Latino programs for Spanish language practice but I think I will do better with free streaming services for that since I am not a native speaker, and there are more options out there now than when I first subscribed to that service.
Right now short of dropping cable service entirely, I may have the TV part of my bill down as low as it goes. Still, I'll ask the question of the cable company though when I drop the one extra service I had, just to see if I can snag a promo deal or any other kind of cost savings.
But worst case scenario where neither a delayed rebroadcast nor Amazon Prime are options, making that one change will leave me with enough extra in my pocket to offset the CBS subscription.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I have heard something along those lines as to the presence of the Narada throwing everything out of whack and the resultant changes, and that's essentially the three-part crux of my issue with JJ's Trek films:
- Would the shuttles fleeing the Kelvin have been able to have made such sufficiently detailed scans to allow Starfleet to reverse engineer the technological advances seen? I know the capability is plot-dependent, but personally, I would have thought no...
- While the impact on the lives of Jim and Sam Kirk would indeed be significant, ripples touching on the lives of Chekov, Scotty, etc, I would have considered less likely, so again, comes across as contrivances rather than natural plot flow... (although I did like that the Spock/Uhura relationship hinted at in Charlie X was resurrected if indeed the writers were aware of that, and not simply deliberately trying to have something different, just for the purpose of putting a different angle on something for the sake of it)
- I consider it very weak on the part of JJ as a director, that he has to rely on articles, comics, interviews and deleted scenes to explain plot holes, rather than simply addressing them on screen. Yes, sometimes a writer might later explain something which is either not immediately obvious, or perhaps specifically explaining their direct intent as author to clarify a point, but the extent to which JJ relies on it via supplementary material (comics/deleted scenes) goes beyond that clarification, into intentional reliance on supplementary material, rather than simply covering the bases to start off with...
Those issues aside, an AU series wouldn't bother me, I just don't want to see change for change's sake, when it's not necessary...
The writers have said they did a lot of research on Memory Alpha so they may have got the idea of Spock and Uhura from Charlie X. I believe in the story that the Narada and crew were captured by the Klingons and they escaped. I imagine that the Klingons took extensive scans of the ship and if Star Fleet Intelligence is up to the task may have gotten their hands on the designs. Or with the Narada disabled after Thor rammed it the shuttles could have been free to scan the ship as much as they want.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Laughing vulcans? Pink Adorians? WTH are you talking about? My post, which you took issue with, was saying that post-Nemesis gives them the most story-telling freedom, because there is no canon already in place about that time frame. Do you actually disagree with that point?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yes, they were captured by the Klingons and eventually escaped (just in time to resume Nero's quest for Revenge)
But none of that comes from the movie, and that is precisely my point. It's sloppy of JJ to require additional material to tell his story and make it make sense (but also a great marketing tactic, as it means rubes will spend the $$s to get the full scoop...)
Re Starfleet intelligence, I'm not 100% sure if they were operating on captured Klingon files, or the sensor logs from the Kelvin shuttles...
The crew aboard the shuttles may not have known if the Narada was disabled or not, and certainly appeared to be simply trying to get away from it as quickly as possible, somewhat limiting the opportunity for detailed scans... As above, plot requirement determines wether said shuttles were all equipped with high-end sensor capabilities, or if they were little more than glorified escape-pods*, so while it is something of a Schroedinger's Cat scenario regarding sensor capacity, it's certainly a pretty tenuous plot point to rely on explaining all Starfleet's enhanced militarism and boosted technology, on scans taken by shuttles fleeing the area (and indeed, if the shuttle scans providing said data was even acknowledged as the source on screen)
*The amount of shuttles seen (and no escape pods) suggests that they were the method for abandoning ship aboard the Einstein-Class
That is the point of setting it in an alternate reality...to make it different. It's not supposed to be Kirk and Spock as you know them but as different characters...just like the Mirror Universe.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Not exactly. In the Mirror Universe the characters are completely different than their "normal" versions. In the JJ-verse they are supposed to be almost the same, just a little more modern and "sexy".
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
On the other hand, in a series set in the example of the Earth-Romulus War, we can't have, say, an episode in which Our Heroes have to form a temporary alliance with an alien captain to fight some greater threat, because we already know that never happened - remember, it's important that no Human see any Romulan until TOS. (That is, assuming we are using the Prime universe; in any other universe, we can use whatever constraints we want, but will only see even greater complaints from the fanbase (cf Abrams).) That's what I mean about the writers in a prequel series having their hands tied - there are certain kinds of stories we can't tell in a prequel.
concerning the fed /romulan war if they did do it and went by the TOS canon then each time the hero would encounter a romulan vessel the romulans would only contact using audio only.
This was layed out during BoT that no one knew what romulans looked like because
1) those who seen them died before reporting back
2) The romulans only contacted other races using audio only ( Btw from what i understand that was the only form of comms during that period. if were going by TOS and the lore that was described during BoT )
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The USS Diversity ...you know that gives me a wonderfull idea for an alien toon lol
My character Tsin'xing
I have. I wonder if we may see some things from the new show in the game,... and maybe vice versa?
Like It'd be kinda neat if the ship in the new show took place on an odyssey class ship, as sorta a nod to the game.
I don't. It's my favorite franchise and in some ways it rivals Star Trek for me. But any show with an established fanbase will probably face some people that hate the new stuff. And Star Trek will certainly not be exempt from this suddenly.
The interesting question will be how many new viewers can Star Trek attract with a new series.
Even if they don't take prisoners, the humans would take prisoners. that suggests that the Romulans were never beaten in a way that allowed taking prisoners or looking at their corpses. That seems so unlikely and hard to believe.
All the Romulan ships must have exploded and burned or disintegrated all the corpses. There must never have been any ground engagements the Romulans lost.
What kind of war could really leave behind no traces of the soldiers that fought in it?
It might make more sense to assume that the characters in the episode where we got that information were ill-informed. Maybe it was a deliberate desinformation policy because people hate racial hatred against the Vulcans or something.
It's the same with the Romulan ship having no warp drive. It must have some kind of FTL capability, otherwise it can't possible perform its function. Maybe it was an unusual type of warp drive or FTL drive they didn't recognize, or it had a Carrier ship with FTL capability that had long retreated (but even that doesn't really work, because the ship attacked multiple outposts across the neutral zone - unless it's all confined to a single star system, without FTL this is not going to happen.)
IMO, the problem with JJ-Trek isn't that it did things differently, it's that it did them badly. If a reboot can be done well, is it really a bad thing that it doesn't quite fit with the original work?
All the other stuff which was in supplementary material, ie Nero and co getting caltured by the Klingons, is nothing more than stories being written after the fact which could plausibly fill the holes... If that had actually been the case all along, then Nero would have ranted that he had spent the entirity of Kirk's life under the lash in a Klingon prison, only to escape to continue his quest. But he didn't. Because JJ and co never thought of it at the time... And it's that kind of sloppy writing, that gives me concerns about Kurtzman serving as EP of the new series... How much of that attitude and sloppy ethic will continue? Will people have to buy a comic each week to explain the plot holes of that week's episode? Sure, it's a great way to sell comics, but it's a lousy way to conduct a TV series...
Personally, something I would like to see, is if the new Trek series was more directly linked to STO, in the same way that the series and game of Defiance were linked. Something like that would really give viewers a sense of connection to the show. The world (and TV) is different to what it was during the Golden Era of Trek (TNG/DS-9/VOY) Back then, I could only watch the episodes and admire the actors from afar. Now, I can just message them on facebook, or meet them at conventions. Star Trek Continues, for example, I can both watch, as a viewer, and engage with in terms of funding, conversation with the cast, etc. It's very different to how things used to be, and that creates a different dynamic between producer and audience. How cool would it be say, to enter a competition of some kind either in game or on forum, where the prize, is that your ship is somehow incorporated into an upcoming episode? Maybe Captain Someone gets namedropped in conversation, or Ensign HotChick gets cast as a live character, or the USS Random appears in a space-scene... How badass would that be?? Sure beats the times when an astronaut, a prince, or a musician managed to snag cameos, this would be something attainable by anyone... The only character I personally could convincingly play on-screen would be a Bolian barber (like all those fat Jedi who haunt conventions... Never saw a fat Jedi on screen...) but anyone's ship could be modelled by the FX team to be inserted for a fleet scene... Very different to just watching TV and drooling over a poster or sending fanmail to the studio... If the new series is going to be using a new medium, they may as well fully explore that to heighten engagement, which would only increase audience numbers, and with actual fans, not just casual 'viewers'...