That depends on the nature and reason for the revision(s) taking place...
For example, George Lucas re-mastering Star Wars: If he was doing it, and adding touches which modern technology allowed him to add which he had always intended, but which the technology of his day would not allow him to include, then fair enough, that's no worse than an author revising and reissuing a novel (such as Jeffrey Archer did with Kane and Abel) to give a richer experience, then that would be good. But if he only did it so he could rake in some more $$s, then that's bad (IMHO)
Take Forbidden Planet--would you say it suffers because it's a revisionist version of Shakespeare's The Tempest?
Another example would be Lost in Space, and to both, I would say, 'no', I don't think the work suffers because it is, I would prefer to say inspired by, another work. It's taking a story, giving it a different setting, different characters, and letting it play out. I don't have issue with that kind of work. Re-making Battlestar Galactica, the A-Team, Hawaii 5-O, Star Trek etc, however, is not the same as turning The Tempest into Forbidden Planet... It's taking a fat Hawaiian man and turning him into a skinny Hawaiian girl 'for the lulz' (Personally, I think Kono looks great after the operation ) IMHO, it's just riding on the coattails of something popular, rather than just creating something original...
As I said about Mad Max in another thread, I think the concept and story would translate very well into other settings, western, sci-fi etc, but I don't think it has enough to pad out an ongoing weekly TV series, but more than that, I think George Miller is a washed up hack for recycling his previous work into Fury Road, just so he can release another movie to continue to line his pockets, and thus I refuse to ever watch it on principle. It's the 'hackery' and lack of creativity with these TRIBBLE rebooters resort to which pisses me off. To say that I'm pleased that the last Fantastic Four was a flop, would be an understatement. The very premise of the movie sucked from the get go, and was handled by TRIBBLE. I'm glad that the figures proved the naysayers right, and it was indeed the steaming pile many knew/suspected it was going to be...
IMO, the problem with JJ-Trek isn't that it did things differently, it's that it did them badly. If a reboot can be done well, is it really a bad thing that it doesn't quite fit with the original work?
On that point, I agree: It was done badly. But I must also say, that my issue is with doing things differently 'for the sake of it'. I don't think it's a bad thing if a reboot doesn't quite fit the original work, I just think it's a sad thing that the writers/producers/whoever, don't have the creativity to actually come up with something unique of their own, so have to 'mess with other people's stuff' to generate output (Can you tell that I was raised as an only child and don't like sharing my toys )
IMO, the problem with JJ-Trek isn't that it did things differently, it's that it did them badly. If a reboot can be done well, is it really a bad thing that it doesn't quite fit with the original work?
On that point, I agree: It was done badly. But I must also say, that my issue is with doing things differently 'for the sake of it'. I don't think it's a bad thing if a reboot doesn't quite fit the original work, I just think it's a sad thing that the writers/producers/whoever, don't have the creativity to actually come up with something unique of their own, so have to 'mess with other people's stuff' to generate output (Can you tell that I was raised as an only child and don't like sharing my toys )[/quote]
It's not that they couldn't come up with something new on their own. Paramount wanted a new Star Trek and hired people to do it brand new. JJ and company rebooted the series perfectly...and when I say perfectly I am not talking about stories or plot lines. They set this new series in an alternate universe so it doesn't wipe away everything that came before it. They did things differently "for the sake of it" because that was the job they were hired to do. Anyone else could have and would have just rebooted the franchise and wiped everything else out.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It's not that they couldn't come up with something new on their own.
Yes, it is... The amount of derivative work JJ (as well as Kurtzman and Orci) as produced over the years, is frankly laughable and indefensible.
If that's all they can do, then fine, everyone has their level, but (aimed at them) at least be honest about it... Don't make out you're a gourmet-trained chef when you burn the burgers at the barbecue and microwave noodles for each meal. And that's what their work is: It's not fine dining, it's fast-food
Paramount wanted a new Star Trek and hired people to do it brand new. JJ and company rebooted the series perfectly...and when I say perfectly I am not talking about stories or plot lines. They set this new series in an alternate universe so it doesn't wipe away everything that came before it. They did things differently "for the sake of it" because that was the job they were hired to do. Anyone else could have and would have just rebooted the franchise and wiped everything else out.
JJ got the gig (as well as most of his gigs) because his dad is big time Paramount producer Gerald W. Abrams... Don't ever forget that... The level of nepotism in the industry is absolutely massive...
After high school, Abrams planned to go to film school rather than to an academic college but eventually enrolled at Sarah Lawrence, following his father's advice: "it's more important that you go off and learn what to make movies about than how to make movies."
JJ also wanted to wipe all other Star Trek work and merch, but on that point, Paramount told him to sit down and STFU... It was no act of benevolence on his part... Paramount wanted to make $$s off the Star Trek name again, so that's what they set out to do. Doesn't mean I have to accept or approve of it... Something else to bear in mind, is about a year ago, there was a discussion about the possibility of a new Star Trek TV series. Someone put a YouTube clip of where JJ was interviewed (maybe at a premier) about if there was to be a new series, and he replied that "they (Paramount/CBS) weren't interested in that..." I felt that the look of rejected shame in his eyes was enough to translate that 'they' weren't interested in working with him, and this revelation of a new series with Kurtzman as EP rather confirms my suspicion... JJ did Star Trek so he would have a fresh showreel to get him Star Wars. Well, he got Star Wars, but he also pissed off a lot of people along the way, and the repercussions of that are now becoming clearer to see...
JJ also wanted to wipe all other Star Trek work and merch,
Again with that uncorroborated BS article.
Oh and for the record the only reason we're getting a new show now instead of some time in the future when they would probably do a total reboot, is BECUASE of those movies you all hate.
Or did you guys miss the part where they made lots of money and got good reviews, whilst focusing on how they need to be more like the series that got canceled or the movie that floped?
It's not that they couldn't come up with something new on their own.
Yes, it is... The amount of derivative work JJ (as well as Kurtzman and Orci) as produced over the years, is frankly laughable and indefensible.
If that's all they can do, then fine, everyone has their level, but (aimed at them) at least be honest about it... Don't make out you're a gourmet-trained chef when you burn the burgers at the barbecue and microwave noodles for each meal. And that's what their work is: It's not fine dining, it's fast-food
Paramount wanted a new Star Trek and hired people to do it brand new. JJ and company rebooted the series perfectly...and when I say perfectly I am not talking about stories or plot lines. They set this new series in an alternate universe so it doesn't wipe away everything that came before it. They did things differently "for the sake of it" because that was the job they were hired to do. Anyone else could have and would have just rebooted the franchise and wiped everything else out.
JJ got the gig (as well as most of his gigs) because his dad is big time Paramount producer Gerald W. Abrams... Don't ever forget that... The level of nepotism in the industry is absolutely massive...
After high school, Abrams planned to go to film school rather than to an academic college but eventually enrolled at Sarah Lawrence, following his father's advice: "it's more important that you go off and learn what to make movies about than how to make movies."
JJ also wanted to wipe all other Star Trek work and merch, but on that point, Paramount told him to sit down and STFU... It was no act of benevolence on his part... Paramount wanted to make $$s off the Star Trek name again, so that's what they set out to do. Doesn't mean I have to accept or approve of it... Something else to bear in mind, is about a year ago, there was a discussion about the possibility of a new Star Trek TV series. Someone put a YouTube clip of where JJ was interviewed (maybe at a premier) about if there was to be a new series, and he replied that "they (Paramount/CBS) weren't interested in that..." I felt that the look of rejected shame in his eyes was enough to translate that 'they' weren't interested in working with him, and this revelation of a new series with Kurtzman as EP rather confirms my suspicion... JJ did Star Trek so he would have a fresh showreel to get him Star Wars. Well, he got Star Wars, but he also pissed off a lot of people along the way, and the repercussions of that are now becoming clearer to see...
Every story is derivative of something else. I am not trying to elevate JJ and company to superstar status. Just that these guys are too dumb to make their own stuff.
His father isn't a big time producer...he produces TV movies...some of which I doubt you could even name without looking up. Paramount offered Kurtzman, Orci and JJ the job because they just made Paramount a bunch of money with Mission Impossible III. The reward for a good job in Hollywood is more work. JJ wasn't even going to direct the film because he wasn't a Trek fan but once he read the script he wanted to make it...He explained that he had decided to direct the film because, after reading the script, he realized that he "would be so agonizingly envious of whoever stepped in and directed the movie." Orci and Kurtzman said that their aim had been to impress a casual fan like Abrams with their story. The job was given to them in 2005 to write the new movie...JJ didn't agree to direct it until 2007. That doesn't sound like Papa pulling his weight to get I'm the gig.
That year, the corporate behemoth Viacom, which owned “Star Trek,” was splitting itself in two, divorcing its CBS studio (which made the “Trek” shows) from its Paramount studio (which made the films). “Trek” was likely to go to CBS, where another television show might eventually be developed. Gail Berman, then the president of Paramount, convinced Leslie Moonves, the chief executive of CBS, to allow her one more chance at a “Trek” film; he gave her 18 months to get the cameras rolling or lose the property. (Under the arrangement CBS retained the “Star Trek” merchandising rights.)
Yes JJ did Star Trek (he agreed to it in 2007, shot it in 2008...it came out in 2009) for a movie that wasn't even announced until 2012????? Is he a time traveller?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It's not that they couldn't come up with something new on their own.
Yes, it is... The amount of derivative work JJ (as well as Kurtzman and Orci) as produced over the years, is frankly laughable and indefensible.
If that's all they can do, then fine, everyone has their level, but (aimed at them) at least be honest about it... Don't make out you're a gourmet-trained chef when you burn the burgers at the barbecue and microwave noodles for each meal. And that's what their work is: It's not fine dining, it's fast-food
Paramount wanted a new Star Trek and hired people to do it brand new. JJ and company rebooted the series perfectly...and when I say perfectly I am not talking about stories or plot lines. They set this new series in an alternate universe so it doesn't wipe away everything that came before it. They did things differently "for the sake of it" because that was the job they were hired to do. Anyone else could have and would have just rebooted the franchise and wiped everything else out.
JJ got the gig (as well as most of his gigs) because his dad is big time Paramount producer Gerald W. Abrams... Don't ever forget that... The level of nepotism in the industry is absolutely massive...
After high school, Abrams planned to go to film school rather than to an academic college but eventually enrolled at Sarah Lawrence, following his father's advice: "it's more important that you go off and learn what to make movies about than how to make movies."
JJ also wanted to wipe all other Star Trek work and merch, but on that point, Paramount told him to sit down and STFU... It was no act of benevolence on his part... Paramount wanted to make $$s off the Star Trek name again, so that's what they set out to do. Doesn't mean I have to accept or approve of it... Something else to bear in mind, is about a year ago, there was a discussion about the possibility of a new Star Trek TV series. Someone put a YouTube clip of where JJ was interviewed (maybe at a premier) about if there was to be a new series, and he replied that "they (Paramount/CBS) weren't interested in that..." I felt that the look of rejected shame in his eyes was enough to translate that 'they' weren't interested in working with him, and this revelation of a new series with Kurtzman as EP rather confirms my suspicion... JJ did Star Trek so he would have a fresh showreel to get him Star Wars. Well, he got Star Wars, but he also pissed off a lot of people along the way, and the repercussions of that are now becoming clearer to see...
Actually, Paramount was pretty much willing to let JJ do what ever he wanted with the merchandising...
CBS was the one that told him to STFU.
They weren't willing to pull all the previous Trek licenses that were already out there.
JJ did want everything from ST09 onward, to only reflect the new universe in the merchandising.
That was a bit to much to expect, even for him.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Oh and for the record the only reason we're getting a new show now instead of some time in the future when they would probably do a total reboot, is BECUASE of those movies you all hate.
Or did you guys miss the part where they made lots of money and got good reviews, whilst focusing on how they need to be more like the series that got canceled or the movie that floped?
Oh, so it's BS that JJ's dad is a big time producer, and that nepotism is what got his foot in the door and kept it there? Is it? Re the merch, I admit, I'm only repeating what others have said on forum on the topic, but the rest is all solid...
Maybe you missed the part where I said (repeatedly) that I don't give a damn if there's a new series at all, and would be quite happy if there was never any new Trek at all, because, y'know, maybe the frnchise doesn't need CONSTANTOUTPUT!! to retain popularity?
Maybe you also missed the part where not everyone loves JJ and his flying monkeys, and sees them as a bunch of derivative hacks. Without going into an essay on economics, the amount of cash made is no marker of how good the movies actually are, just how many people were interested enough to go and see them. They're still riddled with plot-holes (but good fun to sit and zone out infront of) Or that CBS weren't interested in working with JJ on a new Trek series, but are clearly happy to do a new Trek series, because, wait, that's what we're talking about! So let's drop the notion of Saint JJ, Saviour of the Star Trek Franchise, and realize that it was the continued interest in the franchise by a massive fanbae, which made the recent movies financially successful, even if critically debated, not a hack with daddy-issues...
And as for the series that got cancelled (Enterprise) it sucked. (Because the franchise was overworked) And the movie (I'll assume you mean Nemesis) was a pathetic romp hauling out a crew that were well passed their sell-by date... Which touches back on the issue of the production company over-saturating and over-working the franchise. Not that I'd expect anyone to actually realize that, and just think that 'new (recycling and rehashing old) ideas' are good enough, when it's really just time to call it a day and enjoy what there is...
Actually, Paramount was pretty much willing to let JJ do what ever he wanted with the merchandising...
CBS was the one that told him to STFU.
They weren't willing to pull all the previous Trek licenses that were already out there.
JJ did want everything from ST09 onward, to only reflect the new universe in the merchandising.
That was a bit to much to expect, even for him.
Do we know this to be fact or it's something that's been repeated so much that we accept it as fact?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually, Paramount was pretty much willing to let JJ do what ever he wanted with the merchandising...
CBS was the one that told him to STFU.
They weren't willing to pull all the previous Trek licenses that were already out there.
JJ did want everything from ST09 onward, to only reflect the new universe in the merchandising.
That was a bit to much to expect, even for him.
Do we know this to be fact or it's something that's been repeated so much that we accept it as fact?
You can find assorted articles out there from that time period, that pretty much corroborate this as being factual in nature.
I believe that even the Hollywood Reporter ran with the story.
(99% of the time, they tend to be quite hard on making sure the reported facts are based on actual information from the studios or studio sources themselves)
You can see from the way Star Wars is being merchandised, that JJ has a very large influence on it.
It's not difficult to imagine this same thing might have occurred if he had had his way with Trek.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Oh, so it's BS that JJ's dad is a big time producer, and that nepotism is what got his foot in the door and kept it there? Is it? Re the merch, I admit, I'm only repeating what others have said on forum on the topic, but the rest is all solid...
Maybe you missed the part where I said (repeatedly) that I don't give a damn if there's a new series at all, and would be quite happy if there was never any new Trek at all, because, y'know, maybe the frnchise doesn't need CONSTANTOUTPUT!! to retain popularity?
Maybe you also missed the part where not everyone loves JJ and his flying monkeys, and sees them as a bunch of derivative hacks. Without going into an essay on economics, the amount of cash made is no marker of how good the movies actually are, just how many people were interested enough to go and see them. They're still riddled with plot-holes (but good fun to sit and zone out infront of) Or that CBS weren't interested in working with JJ on a new Trek series, but are clearly happy to do a new Trek series, because, wait, that's what we're talking about! So let's drop the notion of Saint JJ, Saviour of the Star Trek Franchise, and realize that it was the continued interest in the franchise by a massive fanbae, which made the recent movies financially successful, even if critically debated, not a hack with daddy-issues...
And as for the series that got cancelled (Enterprise) it sucked. (Because the franchise was overworked) And the movie (I'll assume you mean Nemesis) was a pathetic romp hauling out a crew that were well passed their sell-by date... Which touches back on the issue of the production company over-saturating and over-working the franchise. Not that I'd expect anyone to actually realize that, and just think that 'new (recycling and rehashing old) ideas' are good enough, when it's really just time to call it a day and enjoy what there is...
If his father is a big time producer name something he produced.
The series does need constant out put to grow. That's how new fans are made. If there was only TOS and no TNG or DS9 or Voy...would there be as many fans as there is now? Sure maybe there are cool Mommy and Daddies out there showing the shows to their kids or that cool Aunt or Uncle doing the same but nothing beats having your own thing.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You can find assorted articles out there from that time period, that pretty much corroborate this as being factual in nature.
I believe that even the Hollywood Reporter ran with the story.
(99% of the time, they tend to be quite hard on making sure the reported facts are based on actual information from the studios or studio sources themselves)
You can see from the way Star Wars is being merchandised, that JJ has a very large influence on it.
It's not difficult to imagine this same thing might have occurred if he had had his way with Trek.
Which not really a bad thing when you consider Disney already made back the cost of this new movie on Force Friday. However lets say this is true...how are things better now? Can I go into Toy R Us and by an assortment of Star Trek toys? Can I go into Walmart and see a Star Trek section? Where is this large selection of TOS items that JJ was going to have trashed in favor of his new series? Right now you have to go out of your way to by something Star Trek. StarTrek.com for the most part.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Oh and for the record the only reason we're getting a new show now instead of some time in the future when they would probably do a total reboot, is BECUASE of those movies you all hate.
Wrong. Paramount is the company that benefited from the nuTrek movies. Other than JJ-verse related merchandise, CBS made nothing off the nuTrek movies. Their Star Trek revenue comes from TV and associated merchandising, which for the most part has been basically stagnant since 2005.
CBS is doing this because they want to make money off the IP, and the timing is to capitalize on the 50th Anniversary. They are hoping their new, nuTrek will sustain the streaming service they want to establish.
You can find assorted articles out there from that time period, that pretty much corroborate this as being factual in nature.
I believe that even the Hollywood Reporter ran with the story.
(99% of the time, they tend to be quite hard on making sure the reported facts are based on actual information from the studios or studio sources themselves)
You can see from the way Star Wars is being merchandised, that JJ has a very large influence on it.
It's not difficult to imagine this same thing might have occurred if he had had his way with Trek.
Which not really a bad thing when you consider Disney already made back the cost of this new movie on Force Friday. However lets say this is true...how are things better now? Can I go into Toy R Us and by an assortment of Star Trek toys? Can I go into Walmart and see a Star Trek section? Where is this large selection of TOS items that JJ was going to have trashed in favor of his new series? Right now you have to go out of your way to by something Star Trek. StarTrek.com for the most part.
That's not really anything new with Trek merchandising though.
It's always been a niche market.
Actually, if you do a search on Amazon you'll find plenty of Trek stuff out there.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That's not really anything new with Trek merchandising though.
It's always been a niche market.
Actually, if you do a search on Amazon you'll find plenty of Trek stuff out there.
While it's never been AS prominent as Star Wars, I can tell you that the merchandising was quite a lot more visible and better promoted during Trek's heyday in the 90's. This is both on the "toy" side and with the official books.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Oh and for the record the only reason we're getting a new show now instead of some time in the future when they would probably do a total reboot, is BECUASE of those movies you all hate.
Wrong. Paramount is the company that benefited from the nuTrek movies. Other than JJ-verse related merchandise, CBS made nothing off the nuTrek movies. Their Star Trek revenue comes from TV and associated merchandising, which for the most part has been basically stagnant since 2005.
CBS is doing this because they want to make money off the IP, and the timing is to capitalize on the 50th Anniversary. They are hoping their new, nuTrek will sustain the streaming service they want to establish.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually you clearly didn't read what I wrote, since I said that very thing and gave the same link you just gave.
My bad I am so many threads and my brain is pulled in many directions
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Oh, so it's BS that JJ's dad is a big time producer, and that nepotism is what got his foot in the door and kept it there? Is it? Re the merch, I admit, I'm only repeating what others have said on forum on the topic, but the rest is all solid...
Maybe you missed the part where I said (repeatedly) that I don't give a damn if there's a new series at all, and would be quite happy if there was never any new Trek at all, because, y'know, maybe the frnchise doesn't need CONSTANTOUTPUT!! to retain popularity?
Maybe you also missed the part where not everyone loves JJ and his flying monkeys, and sees them as a bunch of derivative hacks. Without going into an essay on economics, the amount of cash made is no marker of how good the movies actually are, just how many people were interested enough to go and see them. They're still riddled with plot-holes (but good fun to sit and zone out infront of) Or that CBS weren't interested in working with JJ on a new Trek series, but are clearly happy to do a new Trek series, because, wait, that's what we're talking about! So let's drop the notion of Saint JJ, Saviour of the Star Trek Franchise, and realize that it was the continued interest in the franchise by a massive fanbae, which made the recent movies financially successful, even if critically debated, not a hack with daddy-issues...
And as for the series that got cancelled (Enterprise) it sucked. (Because the franchise was overworked) And the movie (I'll assume you mean Nemesis) was a pathetic romp hauling out a crew that were well passed their sell-by date... Which touches back on the issue of the production company over-saturating and over-working the franchise. Not that I'd expect anyone to actually realize that, and just think that 'new (recycling and rehashing old) ideas' are good enough, when it's really just time to call it a day and enjoy what there is...
If his father is a big time producer name something he produced.
The series does need constant out put to grow. That's how new fans are made. If there was only TOS and no TNG or DS9 or Voy...would there be as many fans as there is now? Sure maybe there are cool Mommy and Daddies out there showing the shows to their kids or that cool Aunt or Uncle doing the same but nothing beats having your own thing.
Yeah, the franchise would have DIED without TNG.
Oh and How many films has JJ worked on? Oh wait, I can look it up! JJ Abrams 20... 5 as director, 12 as producer, 9 as writer, and 3 as actor. He's also been involved in some capacity with 19 TV series..... the idea that ALL of this can be attributed to his family connections is laughable. Especially since his father doesn't do big-screen work.
CBS is doing this because they want to make money off the IP, and the timing is to capitalize on the 50th Anniversary. They are hoping their new, nuTrek will sustain the streaming service they want to establish.
Seeing as they had no plans to do a trek series since 2005 becuase of the bad ratings and a flopped movie, I wonder just what could have happened in the last decade to make them think a Trek series would be profitable?
Gee, maybe those 2 movies the guy who is EPing the new show helped make being popular had something to do with it?
You know like the last time trek came back to TV after a lengthy period of time. Because I doubt the anniversary was a big reason seeing as the show comes out 4 months after it and the 45th wasn't enough to get CBS to do anything else with the IP.
Oh and How many films has JJ worked on? Oh wait, I can look it up! JJ Abrams 20... 5 as director, 12 as producer, 9 as writer, and 3 as actor. He's also been involved in some capacity with 19 TV series..... the idea that ALL of this can be attributed to his family connections is laughable. Especially since his father doesn't do big-screen work.
If you don't like the movies that is fine. However making stuff is is disingenuous. His father is not a big time producer. He produced TV movies back in the 70's.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
In the broadest of strokes, yes... As mentioned above, Forbidden Planet was a reworking of The Tempest, but that's still worlds away, no pun intended, from a reworking such as The A-Team and Star Trek... And even if that is the case, it is still no defence for the Decade of Reboots that Hollywood's been churning out...
His father isn't a big time producer...he produces TV movies...some of which I doubt you could even name without looking up.
The man has worked as a producer in the film industry since the early Seventies. He may not be a household name, but with forty-something years in the industry, he will know people and have contacts. Nepotism. It's the name of the game...
Paramount offered Kurtzman, Orci and JJ the job because they just made Paramount a bunch of money with Mission Impossible III. The reward for a good job in Hollywood is more work.
JJ wasn't even going to direct the film because he wasn't a Trek fan but once he read the script he wanted to make it...He explained that he had decided to direct the film because, after reading the script, he realized that he "would be so agonizingly envious of whoever stepped in and directed the movie." Orci and Kurtzman said that their aim had been to impress a casual fan like Abrams with their story. The job was given to them in 2005 to write the new movie...JJ didn't agree to direct it until 2007. That doesn't sound like Papa pulling his weight to get I'm the gig.
They also said that Khan wasn't in Into Darkness... Like the Doctor, JJ lies... Also, the boldened text simply makes no sense... I'm a tattoo artist, I focus almost exclusively on traditional Japanese irezumi-style, and I absolutely loathe trash-polka and watercolor styles of tattoos. That doesn't mean that as an artist, I can't appreciate a well-executed piece of work by another artist, but it does means there are projects I would turn down because they're not my thing. I would never be 'agonizingly envious' of the artist who executed any trash-polka piece, no matter how flawlessly, simply because I would not want to do it myself. JJ's foot in the door in the industry came from following his dad around movie sets...
That year, the corporate behemoth Viacom, which owned “Star Trek,” was splitting itself in two, divorcing its CBS studio (which made the “Trek” shows) from its Paramount studio (which made the films). “Trek” was likely to go to CBS, where another television show might eventually be developed. Gail Berman, then the president of Paramount, convinced Leslie Moonves, the chief executive of CBS, to allow her one more chance at a “Trek” film; he gave her 18 months to get the cameras rolling or lose the property. (Under the arrangement CBS retained the “Star Trek” merchandising rights.)
Yes JJ did Star Trek (he agreed to it in 2007, shot it in 2008...it came out in 2009) for a movie that wasn't even announced until 2012????? Is he a time traveller?
Announced to the public, and what was under-discussion within the clique of Lucas and Spielberg and their buddies (of which JJ is undoubtably a part of, following Super8) is a different matter Either way, it comes across to me, and apparently others, as someone just looking to expand his resume with a shiny new moview full of the pew pew...
The series does need constant out put to grow. That's how new fans are made. If there was only TOS and no TNG or DS9 or Voy...would there be as many fans as there is now? Sure maybe there are cool Mommy and Daddies out there showing the shows to their kids or that cool Aunt or Uncle doing the same but nothing beats having your own thing.
That's simply not so. Until summer 2014, while I had heard of the Mad Max trilogy, I had never watched (or been interested in watching) any of the films. Late one evening in the summer, I happened to catch a marathon of the trilogy on TV, watched them back to back, and became a fan (Essentially One and Two, I was less impressed with Three) I didn't have to see Fury Road to then become interested in the series and look back on the original trilogy, so your argument of new output being necessary to create new fans, is simply incorrect. As mentioned upthread, I intend to never watch Fury Road on principle against George Miller (despite having been a fan of Tom Hardy since I first saw him in Layer Cake) so so much for 'keeping the franchise alive', especially as I can watch the DVDs any time I like...
In the broadest of strokes, yes... As mentioned above, Forbidden Planet was a reworking of The Tempest, but that's still worlds away, no pun intended, from a reworking such as The A-Team and Star Trek... And even if that is the case, it is still no defence for the Decade of Reboots that Hollywood's been churning out...
His father isn't a big time producer...he produces TV movies...some of which I doubt you could even name without looking up.
The man has worked as a producer in the film industry since the early Seventies. He may not be a household name, but with forty-something years in the industry, he will know people and have contacts. Nepotism. It's the name of the game...
Paramount offered Kurtzman, Orci and JJ the job because they just made Paramount a bunch of money with Mission Impossible III. The reward for a good job in Hollywood is more work.
JJ wasn't even going to direct the film because he wasn't a Trek fan but once he read the script he wanted to make it...He explained that he had decided to direct the film because, after reading the script, he realized that he "would be so agonizingly envious of whoever stepped in and directed the movie." Orci and Kurtzman said that their aim had been to impress a casual fan like Abrams with their story. The job was given to them in 2005 to write the new movie...JJ didn't agree to direct it until 2007. That doesn't sound like Papa pulling his weight to get I'm the gig.
They also said that Khan wasn't in Into Darkness... Like the Doctor, JJ lies... Also, the boldened text simply makes no sense... I'm a tattoo artist, I focus almost exclusively on traditional Japanese irezumi-style, and I absolutely loathe trash-polka and watercolor styles of tattoos. That doesn't mean that as an artist, I can't appreciate a well-executed piece of work by another artist, but it does means there are projects I would turn down because they're not my thing. I would never be 'agonizingly envious' of the artist who executed any trash-polka piece, no matter how flawlessly, simply because I would not want to do it myself. JJ's foot in the door in the industry came from following his dad around movie sets...
That year, the corporate behemoth Viacom, which owned “Star Trek,” was splitting itself in two, divorcing its CBS studio (which made the “Trek” shows) from its Paramount studio (which made the films). “Trek” was likely to go to CBS, where another television show might eventually be developed. Gail Berman, then the president of Paramount, convinced Leslie Moonves, the chief executive of CBS, to allow her one more chance at a “Trek” film; he gave her 18 months to get the cameras rolling or lose the property. (Under the arrangement CBS retained the “Star Trek” merchandising rights.)
Yes JJ did Star Trek (he agreed to it in 2007, shot it in 2008...it came out in 2009) for a movie that wasn't even announced until 2012????? Is he a time traveller?
Announced to the public, and what was under-discussion within the clique of Lucas and Spielberg and their buddies (of which JJ is undoubtably a part of, following Super8) is a different matter Either way, it comes across to me, and apparently others, as someone just looking to expand his resume with a shiny new moview full of the pew pew...
The series does need constant out put to grow. That's how new fans are made. If there was only TOS and no TNG or DS9 or Voy...would there be as many fans as there is now? Sure maybe there are cool Mommy and Daddies out there showing the shows to their kids or that cool Aunt or Uncle doing the same but nothing beats having your own thing.
That's simply not so. Until summer 2014, while I had heard of the Mad Max trilogy, I had never watched (or been interested in watching) any of the films. Late one evening in the summer, I happened to catch a marathon of the trilogy on TV, watched them back to back, and became a fan (Essentially One and Two, I was less impressed with Three) I didn't have to see Fury Road to then become interested in the series and look back on the original trilogy, so your argument of new output being necessary to create new fans, is simply incorrect. As mentioned upthread, I intend to never watch Fury Road on principle against George Miller (despite having been a fan of Tom Hardy since I first saw him in Layer Cake) so so much for 'keeping the franchise alive', especially as I can watch the DVDs any time I like...
Sorry I haven't figure out the quote system yet.
Disney is taking a chance on him starting their new Star Wars franchise. They don't seem to be concerned...especially since he turned the job down a few times and had to be convinced by Spielberg to take the job.
The reason why I ask you to name something he produced is because that shows you just how much power he has. Which is next to nothing. Nepotism is in Hollywood but not as much as you think it is. However you have no real proof that his father got him all his gigs.
The point in your example is you loathe and hate polka and watercolor style of tattoos. At no time did JJ ever say he hated Star Trek. He said he was more of a Star Wars fan. He read the script and it appealed to him as a non-trekkie.
The Disney buyout of Lucasfilm was very secretive that when it was announced it caught a lot of people off guard. I work in Hollywood and I can tell you no one saw that coming.
Your experience is actually proof that you have to keep putting out new products. You don't think the reason the network you were watching aired a Mad Max marathon was because a new movie was coming out? It's the same reason why a new Mad Max box set came out around the same time as the movie did. As I said do you think there would be so many Star Trek fans now if there was only TOS?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Oh and How many films has JJ worked on? Oh wait, I can look it up! JJ Abrams 20... 5 as director, 12 as producer, 9 as writer, and 3 as actor. He's also been involved in some capacity with 19 TV series..... the idea that ALL of this can be attributed to his family connections is laughable. Especially since his father doesn't do big-screen work.
If you don't like the movies that is fine. However making stuff is is disingenuous. His father is not a big time producer. He produced TV movies back in the 70's.
1: I don't understand what you're trying to say, 2: I was agreeing with you, my point was that JJ has worked on too many things for his family connections to be how he gets work.
the Decade of Reboots that Hollywood's been churning out...
More like century.
The man has worked as a producer in the film industry since the early Seventies. He may not be a household name, but with forty-something years in the industry, he will know people and have contacts. Nepotism. It's the name of the game... JJ's foot in the door in the industry came from following his dad around movie sets...
Getting a start because you know people is easy. JJ Abrams has been getting work in Hollywood since 1990... there's no way that he could ride his father(and mother)'s street cred to get jobs for 25 years... 2.5 maybe.... But 25? no. Especially not big-name stuff, seeing as his father doesn't work that side of the street.
Oh and How many films has JJ worked on? Oh wait, I can look it up! JJ Abrams 20... 5 as director, 12 as producer, 9 as writer, and 3 as actor. He's also been involved in some capacity with 19 TV series..... the idea that ALL of this can be attributed to his family connections is laughable. Especially since his father doesn't do big-screen work.
If you don't like the movies that is fine. However making stuff is is disingenuous. His father is not a big time producer. He produced TV movies back in the 70's.
1: I don't understand what you're trying to say, 2: I was agreeing with you, my point was that JJ has worked on too many things for his family connections to be how he gets work.
the Decade of Reboots that Hollywood's been churning out...
More like century.
The man has worked as a producer in the film industry since the early Seventies. He may not be a household name, but with forty-something years in the industry, he will know people and have contacts. Nepotism. It's the name of the game... JJ's foot in the door in the industry came from following his dad around movie sets...
Getting a start because you know people is easy. JJ Abrams has been getting work in Hollywood since 1990... there's no way that he could ride his father(and mother)'s street cred to get jobs for 25 years... 2.5 maybe.... But 25? no. Especially not big-name stuff, seeing as his father doesn't work that side of the street.
I was agreeing with you too.
Hollywood has been churning out reboot since the beginning of Hollywood. When talkies took over...many silent films were remade as talkies.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Look, I bow to few in my love of all things Trek (except the last two TNG films, they both sucked as Trek, as movies, and as SF). And I am willing to state unequivocally that until Star Wars came out and sent every other studio scrambling to ride its coattails, Star Trek was as dead as any redshirt. It wasn't until someone at Paramount said, "Hey, don't we already have a space property we can exploit?", that TMP even became a possibility (and it was cobbled together out of scripts written when Paramount had plans to launch a new TV network in the mid-'70s, and were going to use Star Trek Phase II as one of their anchors). More movies were made subsequently - and after the second one, viewership began to decline. Then a new series was launched, and roundly castigated by old-school Trekkies as a terrible pastiche of everything they'd loved about the old show. Four years later, another new series premiered, and was mocked by TNG fans because of its violence, dark tone, and acceptance of spiritual concepts as fit subjects for Star Trek. And so forth.
This franchise requires new series to create new fans. Without new fans, this will fall into TV history alongside Dr. Kildare and Gunsmoke. Movies aren't going to cut it, either - you think $6 is too much to pay to watch four episodes at home, at times convenient for you? Then why do you imagine the franchise can thrive when each new story costs better than $10 and can only be viewed in particular buildings (that is to say, movie theaters) on a fixed schedule?
@jonsills, that is a perfect example of what I pointed out in another thread that JJ Abrams--or Kurtzman now--are NOT responsible for the sheer level of vitriol by some in the fanbase. Different tastes and disagreements are one thing. Flat out tearing each other apart is a whole other, and is a self-inflicted wound on the part of the fanbase. If more of us could live with others having different preferences, I suspect we might've had this sooner. I mean, other than JJ and Cryptic, who else has been willing to deal with us until now? I do wonder if our behavior would give some people pause.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
@jonsills, that is a perfect example of what I pointed out in another thread that JJ Abrams--or Kurtzman now--are NOT responsible for the sheer level of vitriol by some in the fanbase. Different tastes and disagreements are one thing. Flat out tearing each other apart is a whole other, and is a self-inflicted wound on the part of the fanbase. If more of us could live with others having different preferences, I suspect we might've had this sooner. I mean, other than JJ and Cryptic, who else has been willing to deal with us until now? I do wonder if our behavior would give some people pause.
This would take people living up to the standards of their favorite characters
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Can I just ask everyone slamming this based on Kurtzman's roll to actually look at his record? ST:09 and ID were co-written with Orci and overseen by Abrams. Kurtzman's solo shows have been successes (Hawaii 5-0 is a show that, while I don't make a point of watching, impressed me when I did watch it) and in any case he's not writing this series. He's the Executive Producer, which means he's overseeing it, not necessarily taking a major hand in it. He'll lay out a direction for, sure, but there are no indications so far that he will interfere with those who do write it like Berman and Braga did with Voyager and Enterprise.
I'll have to wait for it anyway because I live in the UK (and there's no guarantee it'll be on an easily accessible platform over here either), but I'm going to at least give it the chance.
@jonsills, that is a perfect example of what I pointed out in another thread that JJ Abrams--or Kurtzman now--are NOT responsible for the sheer level of vitriol by some in the fanbase. Different tastes and disagreements are one thing. Flat out tearing each other apart is a whole other, and is a self-inflicted wound on the part of the fanbase. If more of us could live with others having different preferences, I suspect we might've had this sooner. I mean, other than JJ and Cryptic, who else has been willing to deal with us until now? I do wonder if our behavior would give some people pause.
This would take people living up to the standards of their favorite characters
Our fandom is dying and it's not JJ's fault or Paramount's fault or CBS' fault. It's our fault...as a whole. We don't welcome in new fans. We don't direct fans of the new movies to check out the series...we berate them for not being True Fans.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
@jonsills, that is a perfect example of what I pointed out in another thread that JJ Abrams--or Kurtzman now--are NOT responsible for the sheer level of vitriol by some in the fanbase. Different tastes and disagreements are one thing. Flat out tearing each other apart is a whole other, and is a self-inflicted wound on the part of the fanbase. If more of us could live with others having different preferences, I suspect we might've had this sooner. I mean, other than JJ and Cryptic, who else has been willing to deal with us until now? I do wonder if our behavior would give some people pause.
This would take people living up to the standards of their favorite characters
Our fandom is dying and it's not JJ's fault or Paramount's fault or CBS' fault. It's our fault...as a whole. We don't welcome in new fans. We don't direct fans of the new movies to check out the series...we berate them for not being True Fans.
Not exclusively true. I only got into Trek because my Dad had DVDs of both TNG and the Star Wars Original Trilogy that he let me watch (I was barely 5, I couldn't tell the difference) and I fell in love with both franchises over the years.
A few years ago, a friend at school and I were having a discussion about the new Trek films and I recommended he watch the series (admittedly to show why the new films weren't good Trek films IMO). He since became an even more avid Trek fan than I am (admittedly his favourite series is Voyager... but no one is perfect ) and while I came to respect the new films, he and I now have arguments where I'm defending the new films as opposed to the other way around!
Most of us do recommend ST to others who watch the films. It's the 'Old Guard', if you will, who don't (I've personally seen this on Facebook with some users attacking fans of the new films or even TNG, DS9 or Voyager as 'not true fans'). I should stress, this is the community of ST fans who regard the Trek they grew up with as the 'only Trek', not older Trek fans as a whole.
My opinion on the new films: ST:09 is a good film but a bad Star Trek film, ST:ID is a good Trek film but a bad film overall.
Comments
For example, George Lucas re-mastering Star Wars: If he was doing it, and adding touches which modern technology allowed him to add which he had always intended, but which the technology of his day would not allow him to include, then fair enough, that's no worse than an author revising and reissuing a novel (such as Jeffrey Archer did with Kane and Abel) to give a richer experience, then that would be good. But if he only did it so he could rake in some more $$s, then that's bad (IMHO)
Another example would be Lost in Space, and to both, I would say, 'no', I don't think the work suffers because it is, I would prefer to say inspired by, another work. It's taking a story, giving it a different setting, different characters, and letting it play out. I don't have issue with that kind of work. Re-making Battlestar Galactica, the A-Team, Hawaii 5-O, Star Trek etc, however, is not the same as turning The Tempest into Forbidden Planet... It's taking a fat Hawaiian man and turning him into a skinny Hawaiian girl 'for the lulz' (Personally, I think Kono looks great after the operation
As I said about Mad Max in another thread, I think the concept and story would translate very well into other settings, western, sci-fi etc, but I don't think it has enough to pad out an ongoing weekly TV series, but more than that, I think George Miller is a washed up hack for recycling his previous work into Fury Road, just so he can release another movie to continue to line his pockets, and thus I refuse to ever watch it on principle. It's the 'hackery' and lack of creativity with these TRIBBLE rebooters resort to which pisses me off. To say that I'm pleased that the last Fantastic Four was a flop, would be an understatement. The very premise of the movie sucked from the get go, and was handled by TRIBBLE. I'm glad that the figures proved the naysayers right, and it was indeed the steaming pile many knew/suspected it was going to be...
On that point, I agree: It was done badly. But I must also say, that my issue is with doing things differently 'for the sake of it'. I don't think it's a bad thing if a reboot doesn't quite fit the original work, I just think it's a sad thing that the writers/producers/whoever, don't have the creativity to actually come up with something unique of their own, so have to 'mess with other people's stuff' to generate output (Can you tell that I was raised as an only child and don't like sharing my toys
It's not that they couldn't come up with something new on their own. Paramount wanted a new Star Trek and hired people to do it brand new. JJ and company rebooted the series perfectly...and when I say perfectly I am not talking about stories or plot lines. They set this new series in an alternate universe so it doesn't wipe away everything that came before it. They did things differently "for the sake of it" because that was the job they were hired to do. Anyone else could have and would have just rebooted the franchise and wiped everything else out.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If that's all they can do, then fine, everyone has their level, but (aimed at them) at least be honest about it... Don't make out you're a gourmet-trained chef when you burn the burgers at the barbecue and microwave noodles for each meal. And that's what their work is: It's not fine dining, it's fast-food
JJ got the gig (as well as most of his gigs) because his dad is big time Paramount producer Gerald W. Abrams... Don't ever forget that... The level of nepotism in the industry is absolutely massive...
JJ also wanted to wipe all other Star Trek work and merch, but on that point, Paramount told him to sit down and STFU... It was no act of benevolence on his part... Paramount wanted to make $$s off the Star Trek name again, so that's what they set out to do. Doesn't mean I have to accept or approve of it... Something else to bear in mind, is about a year ago, there was a discussion about the possibility of a new Star Trek TV series. Someone put a YouTube clip of where JJ was interviewed (maybe at a premier) about if there was to be a new series, and he replied that "they (Paramount/CBS) weren't interested in that..." I felt that the look of rejected shame in his eyes was enough to translate that 'they' weren't interested in working with him, and this revelation of a new series with Kurtzman as EP rather confirms my suspicion... JJ did Star Trek so he would have a fresh showreel to get him Star Wars. Well, he got Star Wars, but he also pissed off a lot of people along the way, and the repercussions of that are now becoming clearer to see...
Again with that uncorroborated BS article.
Oh and for the record the only reason we're getting a new show now instead of some time in the future when they would probably do a total reboot, is BECUASE of those movies you all hate.
Or did you guys miss the part where they made lots of money and got good reviews, whilst focusing on how they need to be more like the series that got canceled or the movie that floped?
Every story is derivative of something else. I am not trying to elevate JJ and company to superstar status. Just that these guys are too dumb to make their own stuff.
His father isn't a big time producer...he produces TV movies...some of which I doubt you could even name without looking up. Paramount offered Kurtzman, Orci and JJ the job because they just made Paramount a bunch of money with Mission Impossible III. The reward for a good job in Hollywood is more work. JJ wasn't even going to direct the film because he wasn't a Trek fan but once he read the script he wanted to make it...He explained that he had decided to direct the film because, after reading the script, he realized that he "would be so agonizingly envious of whoever stepped in and directed the movie." Orci and Kurtzman said that their aim had been to impress a casual fan like Abrams with their story. The job was given to them in 2005 to write the new movie...JJ didn't agree to direct it until 2007. That doesn't sound like Papa pulling his weight to get I'm the gig.
Again this seems to be a false rumor because Paramount does not have Star Trek merchandizing rights. CBS does.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/movies/26itzk.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all
That year, the corporate behemoth Viacom, which owned “Star Trek,” was splitting itself in two, divorcing its CBS studio (which made the “Trek” shows) from its Paramount studio (which made the films). “Trek” was likely to go to CBS, where another television show might eventually be developed. Gail Berman, then the president of Paramount, convinced Leslie Moonves, the chief executive of CBS, to allow her one more chance at a “Trek” film; he gave her 18 months to get the cameras rolling or lose the property. (Under the arrangement CBS retained the “Star Trek” merchandising rights.)
Yes JJ did Star Trek (he agreed to it in 2007, shot it in 2008...it came out in 2009) for a movie that wasn't even announced until 2012????? Is he a time traveller?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually, Paramount was pretty much willing to let JJ do what ever he wanted with the merchandising...
CBS was the one that told him to STFU.
They weren't willing to pull all the previous Trek licenses that were already out there.
JJ did want everything from ST09 onward, to only reflect the new universe in the merchandising.
That was a bit to much to expect, even for him.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Oh, so it's BS that JJ's dad is a big time producer, and that nepotism is what got his foot in the door and kept it there? Is it? Re the merch, I admit, I'm only repeating what others have said on forum on the topic, but the rest is all solid...
Maybe you missed the part where I said (repeatedly) that I don't give a damn if there's a new series at all, and would be quite happy if there was never any new Trek at all, because, y'know, maybe the frnchise doesn't need CONSTANTOUTPUT!! to retain popularity?
Maybe you also missed the part where not everyone loves JJ and his flying monkeys, and sees them as a bunch of derivative hacks. Without going into an essay on economics, the amount of cash made is no marker of how good the movies actually are, just how many people were interested enough to go and see them. They're still riddled with plot-holes (but good fun to sit and zone out infront of) Or that CBS weren't interested in working with JJ on a new Trek series, but are clearly happy to do a new Trek series, because, wait, that's what we're talking about! So let's drop the notion of Saint JJ, Saviour of the Star Trek Franchise, and realize that it was the continued interest in the franchise by a massive fanbae, which made the recent movies financially successful, even if critically debated, not a hack with daddy-issues...
And as for the series that got cancelled (Enterprise) it sucked. (Because the franchise was overworked) And the movie (I'll assume you mean Nemesis) was a pathetic romp hauling out a crew that were well passed their sell-by date... Which touches back on the issue of the production company over-saturating and over-working the franchise. Not that I'd expect anyone to actually realize that, and just think that 'new (recycling and rehashing old) ideas' are good enough, when it's really just time to call it a day and enjoy what there is...
Do we know this to be fact or it's something that's been repeated so much that we accept it as fact?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You can find assorted articles out there from that time period, that pretty much corroborate this as being factual in nature.
I believe that even the Hollywood Reporter ran with the story.
(99% of the time, they tend to be quite hard on making sure the reported facts are based on actual information from the studios or studio sources themselves)
You can see from the way Star Wars is being merchandised, that JJ has a very large influence on it.
It's not difficult to imagine this same thing might have occurred if he had had his way with Trek.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
If his father is a big time producer name something he produced.
The series does need constant out put to grow. That's how new fans are made. If there was only TOS and no TNG or DS9 or Voy...would there be as many fans as there is now? Sure maybe there are cool Mommy and Daddies out there showing the shows to their kids or that cool Aunt or Uncle doing the same but nothing beats having your own thing.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Which not really a bad thing when you consider Disney already made back the cost of this new movie on Force Friday. However lets say this is true...how are things better now? Can I go into Toy R Us and by an assortment of Star Trek toys? Can I go into Walmart and see a Star Trek section? Where is this large selection of TOS items that JJ was going to have trashed in favor of his new series? Right now you have to go out of your way to by something Star Trek. StarTrek.com for the most part.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
CBS is doing this because they want to make money off the IP, and the timing is to capitalize on the 50th Anniversary. They are hoping their new, nuTrek will sustain the streaming service they want to establish.
Interesting article:
How the Battle Over ‘Star Trek’ Rights Killed JJ Abrams’ Grand Ambitions
The irony is Roddenberry was all about merchandising tie-ins, but compared to the Disney juggernaut he was a rank amateur.
That's not really anything new with Trek merchandising though.
It's always been a niche market.
Actually, if you do a search on Amazon you'll find plenty of Trek stuff out there.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
While it's never been AS prominent as Star Wars, I can tell you that the merchandising was quite a lot more visible and better promoted during Trek's heyday in the 90's. This is both on the "toy" side and with the official books.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Actually because of the deal...Paramount only benefited from ticket sales....which were a lot. All Star Trek merchandise is through CBS.Paramount must license the “Star Trek” characters from CBS Consumer Products for film merchandising. - See more at: https://www.thewrap.com/how-web-star-trek-rights-killed-jj-abrams-grand-ambitions-91766/#sthash.m6r26gIv.dpuf
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My bad I am so many threads and my brain is pulled in many directions
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Oh and How many films has JJ worked on? Oh wait, I can look it up! JJ Abrams 20... 5 as director, 12 as producer, 9 as writer, and 3 as actor. He's also been involved in some capacity with 19 TV series..... the idea that ALL of this can be attributed to his family connections is laughable. Especially since his father doesn't do big-screen work.
My character Tsin'xing
Seeing as they had no plans to do a trek series since 2005 becuase of the bad ratings and a flopped movie, I wonder just what could have happened in the last decade to make them think a Trek series would be profitable?
Gee, maybe those 2 movies the guy who is EPing the new show helped make being popular had something to do with it?
You know like the last time trek came back to TV after a lengthy period of time. Because I doubt the anniversary was a big reason seeing as the show comes out 4 months after it and the 45th wasn't enough to get CBS to do anything else with the IP.
If you don't like the movies that is fine. However making stuff is is disingenuous. His father is not a big time producer. He produced TV movies back in the 70's.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
In the broadest of strokes, yes... As mentioned above, Forbidden Planet was a reworking of The Tempest, but that's still worlds away, no pun intended, from a reworking such as The A-Team and Star Trek... And even if that is the case, it is still no defence for the Decade of Reboots that Hollywood's been churning out...
So hardly someone to entrust with what will undoubtably be a massively anticipated series...
The man has worked as a producer in the film industry since the early Seventies. He may not be a household name, but with forty-something years in the industry, he will know people and have contacts. Nepotism. It's the name of the game...
That's a fair point...
However... They also said that Khan wasn't in Into Darkness... Like the Doctor, JJ lies... Also, the boldened text simply makes no sense... I'm a tattoo artist, I focus almost exclusively on traditional Japanese irezumi-style, and I absolutely loathe trash-polka and watercolor styles of tattoos. That doesn't mean that as an artist, I can't appreciate a well-executed piece of work by another artist, but it does means there are projects I would turn down because they're not my thing. I would never be 'agonizingly envious' of the artist who executed any trash-polka piece, no matter how flawlessly, simply because I would not want to do it myself. JJ's foot in the door in the industry came from following his dad around movie sets...
Interesting link, thank you...
Announced to the public, and what was under-discussion within the clique of Lucas and Spielberg and their buddies (of which JJ is undoubtably a part of, following Super8) is a different matter
Wether I can name anything he has produced, is utterly irrelevant...
That's simply not so. Until summer 2014, while I had heard of the Mad Max trilogy, I had never watched (or been interested in watching) any of the films. Late one evening in the summer, I happened to catch a marathon of the trilogy on TV, watched them back to back, and became a fan (Essentially One and Two, I was less impressed with Three) I didn't have to see Fury Road to then become interested in the series and look back on the original trilogy, so your argument of new output being necessary to create new fans, is simply incorrect. As mentioned upthread, I intend to never watch Fury Road on principle against George Miller (despite having been a fan of Tom Hardy since I first saw him in Layer Cake) so so much for 'keeping the franchise alive', especially as I can watch the DVDs any time I like...
Sorry I haven't figure out the quote system yet.
Disney is taking a chance on him starting their new Star Wars franchise. They don't seem to be concerned...especially since he turned the job down a few times and had to be convinced by Spielberg to take the job.
The reason why I ask you to name something he produced is because that shows you just how much power he has. Which is next to nothing. Nepotism is in Hollywood but not as much as you think it is. However you have no real proof that his father got him all his gigs.
The point in your example is you loathe and hate polka and watercolor style of tattoos. At no time did JJ ever say he hated Star Trek. He said he was more of a Star Wars fan. He read the script and it appealed to him as a non-trekkie.
The Disney buyout of Lucasfilm was very secretive that when it was announced it caught a lot of people off guard. I work in Hollywood and I can tell you no one saw that coming.
Your experience is actually proof that you have to keep putting out new products. You don't think the reason the network you were watching aired a Mad Max marathon was because a new movie was coming out? It's the same reason why a new Mad Max box set came out around the same time as the movie did. As I said do you think there would be so many Star Trek fans now if there was only TOS?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My character Tsin'xing
I was agreeing with you too.
Hollywood has been churning out reboot since the beginning of Hollywood. When talkies took over...many silent films were remade as talkies.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
This franchise requires new series to create new fans. Without new fans, this will fall into TV history alongside Dr. Kildare and Gunsmoke. Movies aren't going to cut it, either - you think $6 is too much to pay to watch four episodes at home, at times convenient for you? Then why do you imagine the franchise can thrive when each new story costs better than $10 and can only be viewed in particular buildings (that is to say, movie theaters) on a fixed schedule?
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
This would take people living up to the standards of their favorite characters
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I'll have to wait for it anyway because I live in the UK (and there's no guarantee it'll be on an easily accessible platform over here either), but I'm going to at least give it the chance.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Our fandom is dying and it's not JJ's fault or Paramount's fault or CBS' fault. It's our fault...as a whole. We don't welcome in new fans. We don't direct fans of the new movies to check out the series...we berate them for not being True Fans.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Not exclusively true. I only got into Trek because my Dad had DVDs of both TNG and the Star Wars Original Trilogy that he let me watch (I was barely 5, I couldn't tell the difference) and I fell in love with both franchises over the years.
A few years ago, a friend at school and I were having a discussion about the new Trek films and I recommended he watch the series (admittedly to show why the new films weren't good Trek films IMO). He since became an even more avid Trek fan than I am (admittedly his favourite series is Voyager... but no one is perfect
Most of us do recommend ST to others who watch the films. It's the 'Old Guard', if you will, who don't (I've personally seen this on Facebook with some users attacking fans of the new films or even TNG, DS9 or Voyager as 'not true fans'). I should stress, this is the community of ST fans who regard the Trek they grew up with as the 'only Trek', not older Trek fans as a whole.
My opinion on the new films: ST:09 is a good film but a bad Star Trek film, ST:ID is a good Trek film but a bad film overall.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood