Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before... That's what it means to write for an established franchise... We might get some new characters, species, ships and technology, but if they want to call it Star Trek, we're not going to be seeing, for example, any laughing Vulcans or pink Andorians... Unless Kurtzman decides to stick with the approach that they went for on ST and ST:ID went for, of doing whatever they wanted and basically telling the audience to suck it...
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy 5-O, but the amount of 'reimagining' which went into the characters, if that happens in a massively-established franchise like Star Trek, sure, it might be 'edgy' and 'new', but it would also lose a lot of fans who want to see a continuation of the continuity they are invested in...
As I've said before when the subject of a new series came up, I couldn't care less if there was ever another new series or movie, and the franchise be allowed to continue as it has been with games, merch, and the actors doing the convention circuit... I'd much rather see something completely new
I think I'm going to be terribly boring and staid and old-fashioned, here, and wait until I've seen some of it before I form any opinions.
Yeah, exactly. I think it's premature to say for sure what the quality will or won't be...yes, "even" with Kurtzman involved.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
That's been true of every Trek since TOS, but the fact that their future storylines and possibilities weren't tied down was what made them successful. (Imagine if TNG hadn't been able to introduce the Cardassian conflict as part of history because there weren't any Cardassians in TOS, or if the war in DS9 had been conducted using TOS-era communications where it could take days or weeks for a message to reach Starfleet Command...)
One set in Trek's future, however, merely means that they have to remember what has gone before - it doesn't constrain where they can go after that. We can see a future in which the Federation is once again at war, or one in which the Klingons and Romulans have joined as associate members and a multicultural ship is exploring the fringes of the galaxy, or anything in between. On the other hand, if, as had been suggested earlier, we go with the Earth-Romulan War, then we'd have to manage to write a war-based series in which Our Heroes never, ever see the face of the enemy, because that not only contradicts something in TOS, it destroys the major punch in "Balance of Terror".
And I'm not despairing over the Kurtzman thing, because I remember how much TOS was influenced by Gene L. Coon, Dorothy Fontana, and various actual SF writers who wrote scripts for the show (not everyone hated the experience the way Harlan Ellison did - that was mostly just Harlan being Harlan). And I try to imagine how a 1964 Internet would have responded to the idea that a new sci-fi show was going to be helmed by someone best known for his police procedurals like The Lieutenant, and I can't imagine that conversation going much better than the one here...
:Honestly, I am going with the cautious optimistic crowd. To me the announcement of a new series for Star Trek is a dream come true. But things don't always work out the way we want. As far as the "New Ship, New crew thing" That doesn't bother me. Technically you could say that about DS9 (Mostly if you forget O'Brien and Later Worf) and definitely Voyager. And they were both directly tied to TNG.
So the possibility that it is set in Prime Universe and after Nemesis (while hopefully forgetting the whole "Blow up Romulus" thing) is very much up in the air.
The fact is we no nothing about the series, so I am not ready to pan it already. Hopefully it is everything it should be, but until I know more, I am going to be reserved on the whole thing.
I would rather make an evidence-based decision, as I did with Enterprise, actually watching the show for a couple of years and giving it a chance--but even then I've heard I stopped watching too early and missed all the good stuff. I'm going to have to sit down someday with my Prime subscription and do a binge watch of the later episodes (I think it was the fourth season that's supposed to be the good one?) and make up for all that I missed.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Just saw the announcement. Not sure how it's going to go, but there is a list of 14 possible captains for the new ship. Out of the 14 I saw, I see one that definitely deserves to be in the chair: Gina Torres.
I would rather make an evidence-based decision, as I did with Enterprise, actually watching the show for a couple of years and giving it a chance--but even then I've heard I stopped watching too early and missed all the good stuff. I'm going to have to sit down someday with my Prime subscription and do a binge watch of the later episodes (I think it was the fourth season that's supposed to be the good one?) and make up for all that I missed.
I didn't hate Enterprise. It just didn't spark my interest. They seemed to draw from the same 10-12 story plots that were used in TNG, DS9 and VOY...I am sure if the series would have continue we would have seen an episode where Archer woke up in an insane asylum discovering his time aboard Enterprise was just him going insane. I did like the Expanse season and it really fueled my love for Andorians.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
Nope, I don't want to re-think anything. You simply don't understand my point. Yes, a series set post Nemesis will have the history of everything from ENT through Nemesis. However, that is all in the past. That doesn't affect them at all unless they want to do some kind of time travel story into the past. But going forward into the timeline they can do absolutely anything they want, because there is no canon rules post Nemesis, with the one exception of the events that brought old Spock into the JJ-verse.
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
Nope, I don't want to re-think anything. You simply don't understand my point. Yes, a series set post Nemesis will have the history of everything from ENT through Nemesis. However, that is all in the past. That doesn't affect them at all unless they want to do some kind of time travel story into the past. But going forward into the timeline they can do absolutely anything they want, because there is no canon rules post Nemesis, with the one exception of the events that brought old Spock into the JJ-verse.
Agreed. It's best to move forward than to go backwards. The main problem with Enterprise is they were doing a prequel show and a lot of their show ideas didn't sit well with fans conception of what happened back then. If this new show has a new crew and a new ship without anything happening in the future to booked the series they can sort of do whatever they want.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
That's been true of every Trek since TOS, but the fact that their future storylines and possibilities weren't tied down was what made them successful. (Imagine if TNG hadn't been able to introduce the Cardassian conflict as part of history because there weren't any Cardassians in TOS, or if the war in DS9 had been conducted using TOS-era communications where it could take days or weeks for a message to reach Starfleet Command...)
One set in Trek's future, however, merely means that they have to remember what has gone before - it doesn't constrain where they can go after that. We can see a future in which the Federation is once again at war, or one in which the Klingons and Romulans have joined as associate members and a multicultural ship is exploring the fringes of the galaxy, or anything in between. On the other hand, if, as had been suggested earlier, we go with the Earth-Romulan War, then we'd have to manage to write a war-based series in which Our Heroes never, ever see the face of the enemy, because that not only contradicts something in TOS, it destroys the major punch in "Balance of Terror".
And I'm not despairing over the Kurtzman thing, because I remember how much TOS was influenced by Gene L. Coon, Dorothy Fontana, and various actual SF writers who wrote scripts for the show (not everyone hated the experience the way Harlan Ellison did - that was mostly just Harlan being Harlan). And I try to imagine how a 1964 Internet would have responded to the idea that a new sci-fi show was going to be helmed by someone best known for his police procedurals like The Lieutenant, and I can't imagine that conversation going much better than the one here...
Absolutely so, my concern, is if that continuity will be held in mind, or simply 're-written because'.
I agree, trying to set a series during the Earth-Romulan War is going to run into issues. It's possible to address it in small ways, such as how Archer and Co were never informed that they were facing the Borg, or didn't know they were getting rolled by Ferengi, and that might even be enough to build a movie around. But to stretch that over a series? I don't think it would work well...
I'd be keen to give the new series a try and see what it's like, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have concerns, and that I'm expecting to see revisionism rather than continuation, and IMHO, depending on the degree of revisionism, I would just as soon see a completely new franchise, rather than an unneeded new series of Star Trek.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek. My earliest memory is of watching The Doomsday Machine. I sent spec scripts to Berman's office. I have a giggle taking part in the LCs, and Trexels kills time while waiting on the microwave. But I'm not desperate, or even keen, to see 'moar Trek', I'm happy to just appreciate what there is already
Ok, so now for a little plot speculation: this series almost certainly has to be after Nemesis. Why? Because anything before Nemesis would tie the hands of the writers, because they would have to stick to existing canon established in the previous TV shows/movies. After Nemesis gives them complete freedom to make new canon without contradicting anything. Also, it means there is a very good chance STO's storyline will be completely disregarded.
You might want to re-think that... Regardless of when this new series will be set, the writer's hands will be completely tied by the canon of everything that has come before...
Nope, I don't want to re-think anything. You simply don't understand my point. Yes, a series set post Nemesis will have the history of everything from ENT through Nemesis. However, that is all in the past. That doesn't affect them at all unless they want to do some kind of time travel story into the past. But going forward into the timeline they can do absolutely anything they want, because there is no canon rules post Nemesis, with the one exception of the events that brought old Spock into the JJ-verse.
I understood, but I'm not so sure you do. Yes, they can do anything they want plot-wise, but as I mentioned, we shouldn't be seeing Laughing Vulcans or pink Andorians (or even four-armed Andorians, according to a deviantArt page I once saw) There is still canon which a new series needs to adhere to, in order to comtinue to call itself Star Trek, rather than just being The New Sci-Fi Series...
I understood, but I'm not so sure you do. Yes, they can do anything they want plot-wise, but as I mentioned, we shouldn't be seeing Laughing Vulcans or pink Andorians (or even four-armed Andorians, according to a deviantArt page I once saw) There is still canon which a new series needs to adhere to, in order to comtinue to call itself Star Trek, rather than just being The New Sci-Fi Series...
This right here is why people have a hard time with Star Trek. Why can't there be laughing Vulcans? Are there no Vulcans that turn their back on logic and just live how they want to live? Is everyone who portrays a Vulcan going to have to do their best Leonard Nimoy impression?
Why can't their be pink Andorians? Has Andoria been fully investigated in a series? Hell it wasn't until Voyager that people even thought that there would be a dark-skinned Vulcan.
The best way this series will make it is if they shed a lot of the preconceived notions people have about the Star Trek Universe.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Spock's half brother Sybok was a Vulcan who enjoyed laughing. There are always outliers that deviate from the normal societal structures, no culture is monolithic.
As for the news of the new show... Even if it isn't set in the rebooted continuity, I think they might try to put it in in a visually updated TOS era simply for the sake of familiarity for the new generation of fans who are coming in off the rebooted movies. Given the financial success of those rebooted films it makes sense that they would want to try and stick to that formula.
I'm personally very much against the idea of the show being trapped behind a pay-wall like this. I think this will only discourage the casual new viewers and prevent the show from growing its audience. Plus I've seen nothing to indicate that CBS has learned from the mistakes of ST: Enterprise. When that show got cancelled the network turned around and blamed the audience rather than admitting they had made mistakes. Considering this attitude I worry that this new show will be a directionless mess the way Enterprise was.
The best way this series will make it is if they shed a lot of the preconceived notions people have about the Star Trek Universe.
If by 'preconceived notions', you mean 'defining characteristics', sure... As above, I'd as soon see creativity going toward a new franchise, than needlessly revising (if this does indeed happen, it may not) an existing one just so they can keep returning to the well...
The best way this series will make it is if they shed a lot of the preconceived notions people have about the Star Trek Universe.
If by 'preconceived notions', you mean 'defining characteristics', sure... As above, I'd as soon see creativity going toward a new franchise, than needlessly revising (if this does indeed happen, it may not) an existing one just so they can keep returning to the well...
My post wasn't to poke fun at you or put you on the spot. If I did that i apologize. The point I was trying to make is that people have a lot of preconceived ideas about Star Trek. This is why people have issues with the reboot universe. It's not the way they think it should be...which is the point of doing an alternate universe.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My post wasn't to poke fun at you or put you on the spot. If I did that i apologize. The point I was trying to make is that people have a lot of preconceived ideas about Star Trek. This is why people have issues with the reboot universe. It's not the way they think it should be...which is the point of doing an alternate universe.
Thanks, apology accepted To be fair, I think much of the issue folks have with the JJVerse, is things like, that the events in the movies are taking place solely to satisfy plot requirements (ie all the crew coming together at the same time) and other issues, not so much that it was because it offered a slightly different view of things (which personally, I didn't take issue with) It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, but as mentioned, I'd rather see a new franchise, rather than another Star Trek show, because I think the franchise deserves a rest, rather than just being used a a cash cow, and as a sub-point, I wouldn't want to see 'revisions just because', because as I mentioned above, if they're going to go to that much effort, they might as well just do a new franchise and hold their heads up, rather than riding on Trek's coat-tails for an insta-fanbase...
My post wasn't to poke fun at you or put you on the spot. If I did that i apologize. The point I was trying to make is that people have a lot of preconceived ideas about Star Trek. This is why people have issues with the reboot universe. It's not the way they think it should be...which is the point of doing an alternate universe.
Thanks, apology accepted To be fair, I think much of the issue folks have with the JJVerse, is things like, that the events in the movies are taking place solely to satisfy plot requirements (ie all the crew coming together at the same time) and other issues, not so much that it was because it offered a slightly different view of things (which personally, I didn't take issue with) It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, but as mentioned, I'd rather see a new franchise, rather than another Star Trek show, because I think the franchise deserves a rest, rather than just being used a a cash cow, and as a sub-point, I wouldn't want to see 'revisions just because', because as I mentioned above, if they're going to go to that much effort, they might as well just do a new franchise and hold their heads up, rather than riding on Trek's coat-tails for an insta-fanbase...
I read an interview after Star Trek had come out and I don't remember if it was the writers or the JJ himself but they mentioned that the universe was out of alignment when the Narada went back in time and so it was trying to make things right...so a lot of the coincidences was the universe fixing itself...the crew coming together....Kirk landing on the same planet as Spock and Scotty. I'll try to find it.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I think I have a more...flexible approach to canon than some people, which probably explains why even though I can see the mistakes in JJTrek, I don't foam at the mouth when JJ's name is mentioned, or his coworkers. I wouldn't have done everything the same way he did, but I have no problem with alternate universes (AU's). The JJverse is an AU. That's fine.
Heck, even with my Star Trek fanfic, I have more universes and continuities than you could shake a stick at. I'm thinking that if you count my non-STO stuff, I'm probably somewhere in the region of 6 to 8 continuities, some of which are related by certain core assumptions, others of which are not so much. This goes across the Prime Universe ending with Enterprise, the STO Prime Universe, and the JJverse, with multiple variations on some of those. Part of this is why I am sometimes able to appreciate the good parts of stories and continuities that don't always work. All I need is at least some compelling pieces to play with and I'll either fill in the gaps or spin off an AU.
I'm fully expecting the new series to violate the assumptions I've founded some of those on. If the violation is significant enough to where I can't make a particular universe fit the trajectory set by the new series, I probably won't retcon...I'd probably just spin off and treat it as another AU if it struck me to write something tied to it.
For me as a Star Trek fan, I took the TNG: "Parallels" concept to heart and really ran with it. The many-worlds interpretation (MWI) of quantum theory, as well as the alternate history genre, really fascinates me even though I am aware that IRL, MWI is a minority view. So while I may be annoyed by something I don't like, I have no problem with the existence of multiple universes, multiple canons, and even individual fans' different headcanons.
There's almost an evil little part of me that wants to whip up a big batch of popcorn for the nerd rage that will definitely ensue as some of those with more rigid perspectives on canon start getting their bubbles burst. I guarantee no matter what Kurtzman or anyone does with this, there will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth from at least one loud segment of the fandom. The only thing that could change IMO, depending on the many approaches that could be taken, is which segment(s) of the fandom pitches the biggest, loudest, angriest fit.
Somebody's dreams are going to get blown up if they see their interpretation as the One Valid Approach. That IMO is a given--it's just a question of when and who.
The question is not whether or not this will occur, but whether or not we are able to handle our differences in opinion as mature adults. I may like the new approach, I may not, but I know there's no way everyone will see it the same as I end up seeing it. But I am not going to attack others for not liking (or disliking) what I like.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I think I have a more...flexible approach to canon than some people, which probably explains why even though I can see the mistakes in JJTrek, I don't foam at the mouth when JJ's name is mentioned, or his coworkers. I wouldn't have done everything the same way he did, but I have no problem with alternate universes (AU's). The JJverse is an AU. That's fine.
Heck, even with my Star Trek fanfic, I have more universes and continuities than you could shake a stick at. I'm thinking that if you count my non-STO stuff, I'm probably somewhere in the region of 6 to 8 continuities, some of which are related by certain core assumptions, others of which are not so much. This goes across the Prime Universe ending with Enterprise, the STO Prime Universe, and the JJverse, with multiple variations on some of those. Part of this is why I am sometimes able to appreciate the good parts of stories and continuities that don't always work. All I need is at least some compelling pieces to play with and I'll either fill in the gaps or spin off an AU.
I'm fully expecting the new series to violate the assumptions I've founded some of those on. If the violation is significant enough to where I can't make a particular universe fit the trajectory set by the new series, I probably won't retcon...I'd probably just spin off and treat it as another AU if it struck me to write something tied to it.
For me as a Star Trek fan, I took the TNG: "Parallels" concept to heart and really ran with it. The many-worlds interpretation (MWI) of quantum theory, as well as the alternate history genre, really fascinates me even though I am aware that IRL, MWI is a minority view. So while I may be annoyed by something I don't like, I have no problem with the existence of multiple universes, multiple canons, and even individual fans' different headcanons.
There's almost an evil little part of me that wants to whip up a big batch of popcorn for the nerd rage that will definitely ensue as some of those with more rigid perspectives on canon start getting their bubbles burst. I guarantee no matter what Kurtzman or anyone does with this, there will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth from at least one loud segment of the fandom. The only thing that could change IMO, depending on the many approaches that could be taken, is which segment(s) of the fandom pitches the biggest, loudest, angriest fit.
Somebody's dreams are going to get blown up if they see their interpretation as the One Valid Approach. That IMO is a given.
The question is not whether or not this will occur, but whether or not we are able to handle our differences in opinion as mature adults. I may like the new approach, I may not, but I know there's no way everyone will see it the same as I end up seeing it. But I am not going to attack others for not liking (or disliking) what I like.
Not gonna lie...I secretly wish it's the alternate universe. the Alternate Universe provides a lot more freedom of writing that the prime one does.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If it's the Prime Universe and it screws with how I saw things fitting together for my own work, I'll deal with it like an adult and either continue my stuff as an AU if necessary, or adjust if the adjustments won't be that major. It's not the end of the world.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
F YOU'RE
A TV PROFESSIONAL, YOU ALREADY KNOW THE FOLLOWING SEVEN RULES:
I. Build your episode on an action-adventure frame-
work. We must reach out, hold and entertain
a mass audience of some 20.,000,000 people or we
simply don't stay on the air.
II. Tell your story about people, not about science
and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain
the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare
never did a monologue about the theory of anes-
thetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and dis-
cusses the breed of his horse before he rides
off on it.
III. Keep in mind that science fiction is not a separate
field of literature with rules of its own, but,
indeed, needs the same ingredients as any story
-- including a jeopardy of some type to someone
we learn to care about, climactic build, sound
motivitation, you know the list.
IV. Then, with that firm foundation established, inter-
weave in it any statement to be made about man,
society and so on. Yes, we want you to have some-
thing to say, but say it entertainingly as you do
on any other show. We don't need essays, how-
ever brilliant.
V. Remember always that STAR TREK is never fantasy;
whatever happens, no matter how unusual or bizarre,
must have some basis in either fact or theory and
stay true to that premise (don't give the enemy
Starflight capability and then have them engage
our vessel with grappling hooks and drawn swords.)
VI. Don't try to tell a story about whole civilizations .
We've never yet been able to get a usable story
from a writer who began... "I see the strange
civilization which...".
VII. Stop worrying about not being a scientist. How
many cowboys, police officers and doctors wrote
westerns, detective and hospital shows?
You'll notice there is nothing about scientific accuracy, or Utopian values, or continuity, or what ever boring TRIBBLE the hardcore fanbase has been demanding.
F YOU'RE
A TV PROFESSIONAL, YOU ALREADY KNOW THE FOLLOWING SEVEN RULES:
I. Build your episode on an action-adventure frame-
work. We must reach out, hold and entertain
a mass audience of some 20.,000,000 people or we
simply don't stay on the air.
II. Tell your story about people, not about science
and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain
the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare
never did a monologue about the theory of anes-
thetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and dis-
cusses the breed of his horse before he rides
off on it.
III. Keep in mind that science fiction is not a separate
field of literature with rules of its own, but,
indeed, needs the same ingredients as any story
-- including a jeopardy of some type to someone
we learn to care about, climactic build, sound
motivitation, you know the list.
IV. Then, with that firm foundation established, inter-
weave in it any statement to be made about man,
society and so on. Yes, we want you to have some-
thing to say, but say it entertainingly as you do
on any other show. We don't need essays, how-
ever brilliant.
V. Remember always that STAR TREK is never fantasy;
whatever happens, no matter how unusual or bizarre,
must have some basis in either fact or theory and
stay true to that premise (don't give the enemy
Starflight capability and then have them engage
our vessel with grappling hooks and drawn swords.)
VI. Don't try to tell a story about whole civilizations .
We've never yet been able to get a usable story
from a writer who began... "I see the strange
civilization which...".
VII. Stop worrying about not being a scientist. How
many cowboys, police officers and doctors wrote
westerns, detective and hospital shows?
You'll notice there is nothing about scientific accuracy, or Utopian values, or continuity, or what ever boring TRIBBLE the hardcore fanbase has been demanding.
it's an action adventure series...I like that they knew what they were going for (for the people that complain about too much pew pew)
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
F YOU'RE
A TV PROFESSIONAL, YOU ALREADY KNOW THE FOLLOWING SEVEN RULES:
I. Build your episode on an action-adventure frame-
work. We must reach out, hold and entertain
a mass audience of some 20.,000,000 people or we
simply don't stay on the air.
II. Tell your story about people, not about science
and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain
the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare
never did a monologue about the theory of anes-
thetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and dis-
cusses the breed of his horse before he rides
off on it.
III. Keep in mind that science fiction is not a separate
field of literature with rules of its own, but,
indeed, needs the same ingredients as any story
-- including a jeopardy of some type to someone
we learn to care about, climactic build, sound
motivitation, you know the list.
IV. Then, with that firm foundation established, inter-
weave in it any statement to be made about man,
society and so on. Yes, we want you to have some-
thing to say, but say it entertainingly as you do
on any other show. We don't need essays, how-
ever brilliant.
V. Remember always that STAR TREK is never fantasy;
whatever happens, no matter how unusual or bizarre,
must have some basis in either fact or theory and
stay true to that premise (don't give the enemy
Starflight capability and then have them engage
our vessel with grappling hooks and drawn swords.)
VI. Don't try to tell a story about whole civilizations .
We've never yet been able to get a usable story
from a writer who began... "I see the strange
civilization which...".
VII. Stop worrying about not being a scientist. How
many cowboys, police officers and doctors wrote
westerns, detective and hospital shows?
You'll notice there is nothing about scientific accuracy, or Utopian values, or continuity, or what ever boring TRIBBLE the hardcore fanbase has been demanding.
How those cardinal rules got ignored later on with the Klingons..."don't have them engage with swords..."
A shame.
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[quote="gulberat;12768471
How those cardinal rules got ignored later on with the Klingons..."don't have them engage with swords..."
A shame.[/quote]
One of the reasons I like the Terran Taskforce Armor is that the Klingons finally got some futuristic space armor instead of the leather Renaissance fair look.
[quote="gulberat;12768471
How those cardinal rules got ignored later on with the Klingons..."don't have them engage with swords..."
A shame.
One of the reasons I like the Terran Taskforce Armor is that the Klingons finally got some futuristic space armor instead of the leather Renaissance fair look.[/quote]
The promo illustration doesn't flatter it. Maybe it looks better in game...dunno.
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The main issue I have with it is that it's not really a television series. It's a CBS All Access exclusive. If it were coming to broadcast TV, sure, but . . . an obscure in-house streaming subscription service? I don't think so.
[quote="gulberat;12768471
How those cardinal rules got ignored later on with the Klingons..."don't have them engage with swords..."
A shame.
One of the reasons I like the Terran Taskforce Armor is that the Klingons finally got some futuristic space armor instead of the leather Renaissance fair look.[/quote]
The Klingons have been criminally underdeveloped...outside of the game too
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
This right here is why people have a hard time with Star Trek. Why can't there be laughing Vulcans? Are there no Vulcans that turn their back on logic and just live how they want to live?
We already have laughing Vulcans: they're called Romulans.
But for literal Vulcans we had Sybok in FF and an episode of Enterprise showed "unconventional" Vulcans. The former fully embraced his passions (did that lead to his madness?), and the latter were doing mind melds to share emotions.
Comments
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy 5-O, but the amount of 'reimagining' which went into the characters, if that happens in a massively-established franchise like Star Trek, sure, it might be 'edgy' and 'new', but it would also lose a lot of fans who want to see a continuation of the continuity they are invested in...
As I've said before when the subject of a new series came up, I couldn't care less if there was ever another new series or movie, and the franchise be allowed to continue as it has been with games, merch, and the actors doing the convention circuit... I'd much rather see something completely new
And who have I always 'cast' as my namesake character reference...?
*Plans ways to blow royalty cheques*
Yeah, exactly. I think it's premature to say for sure what the quality will or won't be...yes, "even" with Kurtzman involved.
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One set in Trek's future, however, merely means that they have to remember what has gone before - it doesn't constrain where they can go after that. We can see a future in which the Federation is once again at war, or one in which the Klingons and Romulans have joined as associate members and a multicultural ship is exploring the fringes of the galaxy, or anything in between. On the other hand, if, as had been suggested earlier, we go with the Earth-Romulan War, then we'd have to manage to write a war-based series in which Our Heroes never, ever see the face of the enemy, because that not only contradicts something in TOS, it destroys the major punch in "Balance of Terror".
And I'm not despairing over the Kurtzman thing, because I remember how much TOS was influenced by Gene L. Coon, Dorothy Fontana, and various actual SF writers who wrote scripts for the show (not everyone hated the experience the way Harlan Ellison did - that was mostly just Harlan being Harlan). And I try to imagine how a 1964 Internet would have responded to the idea that a new sci-fi show was going to be helmed by someone best known for his police procedurals like The Lieutenant, and I can't imagine that conversation going much better than the one here...
So the possibility that it is set in Prime Universe and after Nemesis (while hopefully forgetting the whole "Blow up Romulus" thing) is very much up in the air.
The fact is we no nothing about the series, so I am not ready to pan it already. Hopefully it is everything it should be, but until I know more, I am going to be reserved on the whole thing.
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Wow, I was thinking this exact thing.
I didn't hate Enterprise. It just didn't spark my interest. They seemed to draw from the same 10-12 story plots that were used in TNG, DS9 and VOY...I am sure if the series would have continue we would have seen an episode where Archer woke up in an insane asylum discovering his time aboard Enterprise was just him going insane. I did like the Expanse season and it really fueled my love for Andorians.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Nope, I don't want to re-think anything. You simply don't understand my point. Yes, a series set post Nemesis will have the history of everything from ENT through Nemesis. However, that is all in the past. That doesn't affect them at all unless they want to do some kind of time travel story into the past. But going forward into the timeline they can do absolutely anything they want, because there is no canon rules post Nemesis, with the one exception of the events that brought old Spock into the JJ-verse.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Agreed. It's best to move forward than to go backwards. The main problem with Enterprise is they were doing a prequel show and a lot of their show ideas didn't sit well with fans conception of what happened back then. If this new show has a new crew and a new ship without anything happening in the future to booked the series they can sort of do whatever they want.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I agree, trying to set a series during the Earth-Romulan War is going to run into issues. It's possible to address it in small ways, such as how Archer and Co were never informed that they were facing the Borg, or didn't know they were getting rolled by Ferengi, and that might even be enough to build a movie around. But to stretch that over a series? I don't think it would work well...
I'd be keen to give the new series a try and see what it's like, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have concerns, and that I'm expecting to see revisionism rather than continuation, and IMHO, depending on the degree of revisionism, I would just as soon see a completely new franchise, rather than an unneeded new series of Star Trek.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek. My earliest memory is of watching The Doomsday Machine. I sent spec scripts to Berman's office. I have a giggle taking part in the LCs, and Trexels kills time while waiting on the microwave. But I'm not desperate, or even keen, to see 'moar Trek', I'm happy to just appreciate what there is already
I understood, but I'm not so sure you do. Yes, they can do anything they want plot-wise, but as I mentioned, we shouldn't be seeing Laughing Vulcans or pink Andorians (or even four-armed Andorians, according to a deviantArt page I once saw) There is still canon which a new series needs to adhere to, in order to comtinue to call itself Star Trek, rather than just being The New Sci-Fi Series...
This right here is why people have a hard time with Star Trek. Why can't there be laughing Vulcans? Are there no Vulcans that turn their back on logic and just live how they want to live? Is everyone who portrays a Vulcan going to have to do their best Leonard Nimoy impression?
Why can't their be pink Andorians? Has Andoria been fully investigated in a series? Hell it wasn't until Voyager that people even thought that there would be a dark-skinned Vulcan.
The best way this series will make it is if they shed a lot of the preconceived notions people have about the Star Trek Universe.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
As for the news of the new show... Even if it isn't set in the rebooted continuity, I think they might try to put it in in a visually updated TOS era simply for the sake of familiarity for the new generation of fans who are coming in off the rebooted movies. Given the financial success of those rebooted films it makes sense that they would want to try and stick to that formula.
I'm personally very much against the idea of the show being trapped behind a pay-wall like this. I think this will only discourage the casual new viewers and prevent the show from growing its audience. Plus I've seen nothing to indicate that CBS has learned from the mistakes of ST: Enterprise. When that show got cancelled the network turned around and blamed the audience rather than admitting they had made mistakes. Considering this attitude I worry that this new show will be a directionless mess the way Enterprise was.
Yes, they're called 'Romulans'...
Worst Vulcan Ever (IMHO)
Not the point...
I'm pretty sure there was a dark-skinned Vulcan in Search for Spock... There was definitely a Vulcan of oriental appearance...
If by 'preconceived notions', you mean 'defining characteristics', sure... As above, I'd as soon see creativity going toward a new franchise, than needlessly revising (if this does indeed happen, it may not) an existing one just so they can keep returning to the well...
My post wasn't to poke fun at you or put you on the spot. If I did that i apologize. The point I was trying to make is that people have a lot of preconceived ideas about Star Trek. This is why people have issues with the reboot universe. It's not the way they think it should be...which is the point of doing an alternate universe.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I read an interview after Star Trek had come out and I don't remember if it was the writers or the JJ himself but they mentioned that the universe was out of alignment when the Narada went back in time and so it was trying to make things right...so a lot of the coincidences was the universe fixing itself...the crew coming together....Kirk landing on the same planet as Spock and Scotty. I'll try to find it.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Heck, even with my Star Trek fanfic, I have more universes and continuities than you could shake a stick at. I'm thinking that if you count my non-STO stuff, I'm probably somewhere in the region of 6 to 8 continuities, some of which are related by certain core assumptions, others of which are not so much. This goes across the Prime Universe ending with Enterprise, the STO Prime Universe, and the JJverse, with multiple variations on some of those. Part of this is why I am sometimes able to appreciate the good parts of stories and continuities that don't always work. All I need is at least some compelling pieces to play with and I'll either fill in the gaps or spin off an AU.
I'm fully expecting the new series to violate the assumptions I've founded some of those on. If the violation is significant enough to where I can't make a particular universe fit the trajectory set by the new series, I probably won't retcon...I'd probably just spin off and treat it as another AU if it struck me to write something tied to it.
For me as a Star Trek fan, I took the TNG: "Parallels" concept to heart and really ran with it. The many-worlds interpretation (MWI) of quantum theory, as well as the alternate history genre, really fascinates me even though I am aware that IRL, MWI is a minority view. So while I may be annoyed by something I don't like, I have no problem with the existence of multiple universes, multiple canons, and even individual fans' different headcanons.
There's almost an evil little part of me that wants to whip up a big batch of popcorn for the nerd rage that will definitely ensue as some of those with more rigid perspectives on canon start getting their bubbles burst. I guarantee no matter what Kurtzman or anyone does with this, there will be the wailing and gnashing of teeth from at least one loud segment of the fandom. The only thing that could change IMO, depending on the many approaches that could be taken, is which segment(s) of the fandom pitches the biggest, loudest, angriest fit.
Somebody's dreams are going to get blown up if they see their interpretation as the One Valid Approach. That IMO is a given--it's just a question of when and who.
The question is not whether or not this will occur, but whether or not we are able to handle our differences in opinion as mature adults. I may like the new approach, I may not, but I know there's no way everyone will see it the same as I end up seeing it. But I am not going to attack others for not liking (or disliking) what I like.
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Not gonna lie...I secretly wish it's the alternate universe. the Alternate Universe provides a lot more freedom of writing that the prime one does.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
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I'm secretly hoping for a total reboot that gets back to the core of what trek is i.e. stuff like
and
You'll notice there is nothing about scientific accuracy, or Utopian values, or continuity, or what ever boring TRIBBLE the hardcore fanbase has been demanding.
it's an action adventure series...I like that they knew what they were going for (for the people that complain about too much pew pew)
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
How those cardinal rules got ignored later on with the Klingons..."don't have them engage with swords..."
A shame.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
How those cardinal rules got ignored later on with the Klingons..."don't have them engage with swords..."
A shame.[/quote]
One of the reasons I like the Terran Taskforce Armor is that the Klingons finally got some futuristic space armor instead of the leather Renaissance fair look.
One of the reasons I like the Terran Taskforce Armor is that the Klingons finally got some futuristic space armor instead of the leather Renaissance fair look.[/quote]
The promo illustration doesn't flatter it. Maybe it looks better in game...dunno.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
One of the reasons I like the Terran Taskforce Armor is that the Klingons finally got some futuristic space armor instead of the leather Renaissance fair look.[/quote]
The Klingons have been criminally underdeveloped...outside of the game too
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
But for literal Vulcans we had Sybok in FF and an episode of Enterprise showed "unconventional" Vulcans. The former fully embraced his passions (did that lead to his madness?), and the latter were doing mind melds to share emotions.