If you want your Orion to be green, make it green.
If you don't want your Orion to be green, don't make it green.
If you don't like the fact that someone does or doesn't have a green Orion, get over it, it's not your Orion to judge. Look away if it offense you so much.
Done.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
If they were going to spend time on the Orion character costumes, I'd be happier if they fixed the bare chest options to allow the males to use the metal parts they should have (currently non-NPCs only get to use them with armour, and fix the palette of that and the head pieces too please) and the females to wear KDF armour parts over the "bikini" tops (and pref. versions of the male's leather jacket and vest too).
As to the OP, it depends on which version of canon you take as current (hence the options presumably, and that's even before you get into the range of shades comparable human skin can have due to environmental/mixed heritage reasons). While you can't really count the TAS Orion shades (as mentioned before, it's been documented since that the guy in charge of the colouring was colour blind :P), it was stated in the original series pilot that green Orions were a subset of the Orion race and the other Orions shown just looked like white humans (in Pike's Talosian-induced rather dubious fantasy). Enterprise had them as green only when they appeared, and is arguably the most canon out of their screen appearances to date.
Because making Human-look-alike female Orions has nothing to do with the fact you can put them in a ridiculously skimpy outfit that no other species can wear, so that maxed out boob slider has its dues... oh wait.
Seriously, if this was about diversity, you can still use alien-gen character, if you are true to the claim it's not about the skimpy outfits. That being said - I'm not saying restrict the colors of Orions, thus going too far, and defo have no interest in restricting options for anyone just because I dislike something, but I do think that people who skimp out their female characters for whatever odd fantasies are a low brow; and I make no denial of the fact that laughs and funny discussions always commence, whenever I see a "bleached" Orions. Just visiting Dyson BZ provides the "Barbie-squads" at large, and is a source of many facepalms. Just my opinion though. Duh.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Last I checked, Orion captains made up something like 0.5% of all STO characters, so this is a petty objection, IMO. As others have indicated, interspecies breeding will affect the phenotype of any race, so there must be some degree of flexibility in creating ANY character. Some combinations would just not be possible (swapping body parts, for instance), and some species just would not be able to cross-breed, but some superficial variations are inevitable. Until Voyager, I would never have imagined that there could be black Vulcans, but there you have it!
Heh, also.... it IS canon that not all Orions are green.
Nobody's posted a single screen cap from Star Trek of an Orion that wasn't green.
Even in that awful novelty cartoon they did, the proper Orion's were green and the goofy ones were blue-green.
Actually, there wasn't a single Orion in TAS, that is what you would consider the "right" color. Devna was a pale yellowish color, and the guys in the pirate ship were light blue-green.
And yes, in the first appearance of Orions it was said that they weren't all green.
They made a point of putting emphasis on the word 'green' when describing Orion 'slave women', but so much so, that it strongly implies a couple of other things.
One is illustrated by the way we would use a color descriptive for a human in English (He is a white man, she is a black woman) and if you just add the necessity of galactic racial clarification, you get the perfectly logical relationship between a 'red Human Lakota man', and a 'green Orion slave woman. If you like to see this example as it fits a different universe, you have a Green Barsoomian woman, a White Barsoomian man, a Yellow Barsoomian woman, and a Black Barsoomian man, a 'red Barsoomian slave woman' not to mention a Barsoomian plant man just to give you more logical examples of what that choice of language carries with it in the form of subtle communication.
A second subtle suggestion is that the Orions did keep green slave women who at the time were not defined as specifically being racially Orion. This second seems less likely after Enterprise, but even Enterprise does not negate the previously noted verbal implications made by language usage.
Basically they were in the Rigel system which has so many inhabitable worlds it makes accurately tracking the racial types to be found there very difficult, especially since it was a galactic trading hub. Who really knows what 'race' the green slaves represent? A subject species lumped together under a common Orion political umbrella along with their masters?
In terrestrial terms we have 'Americans'. Do we need to break this down further? Do we realize how many kinds of 'Americans' there are? Which 'Americans' are canon, basing the question off of the first six episodes of the western TV show "Gunsmoke", for example. If we are only seeing a single slice of their whole culture most of the time, we would have the wrong impression from the get go.
Are there any other people who took Anthropology in college? If so, you know that initial examination of a culture has a high chance of establishing misconceptions about that culture if not handled carefully. You can also see how an extraterrestrial people might get the idea that all Humans are some shade of white, if they learned about us from our earliest TV broadcasts.
Because making Human-look-alike female Orions has nothing to do with the fact you can put them in a ridiculously skimpy outfit that no other species can wear, so that maxed out boob slider has its dues... oh wait.
Seriously, if this was about diversity, you can still use alien-gen character, if you are true to the claim it's not about the skimpy outfits. That being said - I'm not saying restrict the colors of Orions, thus going too far, and defo have no interest in restricting options for anyone just because I dislike something, but I do think that people who skimp out their female characters for whatever odd fantasies are a low brow; and I make no denial of the fact that laughs and funny discussions always commence, whenever I see a "bleached" Orions. Just visiting Dyson BZ provides the "Barbie-squads" at large, and is a source of many facepalms. Just my opinion though. Duh.
So madame moderator, do you support the op and suggest that he is a good judge between the acceptable and the freakish? I ask because here's what he said about you:
My opinions do not change based on what someone said about me, quite frankly. And I'm not dictating what's acceptable and what's not. I /can/ laugh about things I don't like & if I think people making skimpy-females to support whatever fantasies they get are funny, I can, right?
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
You can claim to dislike it, but STO includes elements and inspirations from soft canon.
This statement is true. However, it is a fallacy to claim that simply because STO features some elements drawn from 'soft canon' sources, this means that OTHER or ALL soft canon sources are valid canonical sources for STO. Only those soft-canon elements directly featured in Star Trek Online by the devs can be considered canonical for the purposes of STO.
Put simply, STO does draw upon a limited number of soft canon elements - to give an example it clearly had a President Nanietta Bacco at one point. This doesn't mean that other or all soft canon sources - even those relating to Nanietta Bacco - are canonical for STO. If they were, where is the Typhon Pact, what happened to the suicide of Sela which took place several years before STO is set, etc? Clearly, even though these sources feature Bacco, they are mutually contradictory and therefore not fully canonical to STO.
The use of such material does not elevate other soft canon sources to STO canon. All that is canonical here, is that STO had a Federation President called Nanietta Bacco at one point. Nothing more.
To support your argument you say that some 'soft canon' sources feature Orions of differing skin colours. The 'soft canon' sources you cite are the long-defunct FASA roleplaying game and the Animated Series. AFAIK STO does not currently feature any material from the FASA RPG or TAS. Therefore there is no evidence which supports their being in any way canon in relation to STO at present.
However, even if they were considered canon for STO, it still doesn't make ANY difference to the proposal to correct Orion skin colour palette options. Here's why:
You can claim to dislike it, but soft canon does not restrict Orions to green skin only.
The argument is not to restrict Orions to green skin only (though it may have been phrased by others as such at times), simply to remove the non-canonical 'white' skin option.
With respect to TAS - I have already cited the colouring errors which took place and that the colouring of several male Orions as blue was 'unintentional' due to a technical issue. However, even if we accept the existence of blue (male) Orions - how does this support having a 'white' option available (when this was not featured in TAS) and no blue option (which was)?
As for the FASA RPG - I understand it lists the Orion skin colours as 'ruddy', 'green' and 'grey'. Aside from the default green, none of these colour options are currently in the game. If FASA was regarded as a canonical source they presumably would be.
So even if we accept your arguments about the canoncity of other books/games - none of these support white Orions.
I never said or implied that the presence of soft canon elements in STO requires that other soft canon elements be included, much less that all other soft canon elements must be included. There's a still a bit of unflagellated straw poking out of your rhetorical effigy over here. Deal with what I actually said, and not a caricature of it.
And yes, there is evidence that the idea of "white" Orions is canon in relation to STO at present, that being the rather obvious existence of "white" Orions in STO. Whether you like it or not, it's there. Burying your head in the sand and denying the existence of such does not make them non-existent. They do exist in STO.
Contrary to your assertion that no soft canon supports white Orions, as I quoted from Memory Beta, "Caucasian Human" skin tones were given as possible for "Ruddy Orions" in the FASA system. "Ruddy Orion" is not a skintone, but an ethnicity within the Orion species, and that ethnicity includes a spectrum of skintones ranging from a reddish-orange through yellow to the same as that of a Caucasian Human.
There is a lot of stuff in this game that isn't canon. Asking to have skin tones on a single species removed because it isn't canon is kinda, ridiculous. You might as well ask them to remove 75% of the ships from this game, or the popular Risian Caracal pets from the summer event. Heck, when did Talaxians ever join Starfleet and the KDF? As a lifetime member I can play as one.
There is only so much canon stuff that Cryptic can use. If we were left with only stuff seen in the TV shows and movies we wouldn't have much of a game.
I like how they have expanded on canon, adding more to it and referencing what was seen in the shows and movies. There are some very well done stories in the game that Cryptic came up with, with more to come.
If it wasn't for Cryptic, we wouldn't have ever found out just how sexy the Iconians really are. They were never seen on any shows or movies; they were merely mentioned and talked about a little.
There is a lot of stuff in this game that isn't canon. Asking to have skin tones on a single species removed because it isn't canon is kinda, ridiculous. You might as well ask them to remove 75% of the ships from this game, or the popular Risian Caracal pets from the summer event. Heck, when did Talaxians ever join Starfleet and the KDF? As a lifetime member I can play as one.
There is only so much canon stuff that Cryptic can use. If we were left with only stuff seen in the TV shows and movies we wouldn't have much of a game.
I like how they have expanded on canon, adding more to it and referencing what was seen in the shows and movies. There are some very well done stories in the game that Cryptic came up with, with more to come.
If it wasn't for Cryptic, we wouldn't have ever found out just how sexy the Iconians really are. They were never seen on any shows or movies; they were merely mentioned and talked about a little.
#TakeMyNandiCauseItIsn'tCanon
Nah just asking them to please consider in this instance the trek canon and Keep Orions Green.
Its such an egregious thing and so easy, so easy to fix!
Not everything in this game has to be canon. That was my point.
There is a lot of stuff in this game that isn't canon. Asking to have skin tones on a single species removed because it isn't canon is kinda, ridiculous. You might as well ask them to remove 75% of the ships from this game, or the popular Risian Caracal pets from the summer event. Heck, when did Talaxians ever join Starfleet and the KDF? As a lifetime member I can play as one.
There is only so much canon stuff that Cryptic can use. If we were left with only stuff seen in the TV shows and movies we wouldn't have much of a game.
I like how they have expanded on canon, adding more to it and referencing what was seen in the shows and movies. There are some very well done stories in the game that Cryptic came up with, with more to come.
If it wasn't for Cryptic, we wouldn't have ever found out just how sexy the Iconians really are. They were never seen on any shows or movies; they were merely mentioned and talked about a little.
#TakeMyNandiCauseItIsn'tCanon
Nah just asking them to please consider in this instance the trek canon and Keep Orions Green.
Its such an egregious thing and so easy, so easy to fix!
So what's the problem? Make your Orions green. Problem solved, nothing to fix on Cryptic's end at all.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
There is a lot of stuff in this game that isn't canon. Asking to have skin tones on a single species removed because it isn't canon is kinda, ridiculous. You might as well ask them to remove 75% of the ships from this game, or the popular Risian Caracal pets from the summer event. Heck, when did Talaxians ever join Starfleet and the KDF? As a lifetime member I can play as one.
There is only so much canon stuff that Cryptic can use. If we were left with only stuff seen in the TV shows and movies we wouldn't have much of a game.
I like how they have expanded on canon, adding more to it and referencing what was seen in the shows and movies. There are some very well done stories in the game that Cryptic came up with, with more to come.
If it wasn't for Cryptic, we wouldn't have ever found out just how sexy the Iconians really are. They were never seen on any shows or movies; they were merely mentioned and talked about a little.
#TakeMyNandiCauseItIsn'tCanon
Nah just asking them to please consider in this instance the trek canon and Keep Orions Green.
Its such an egregious thing and so easy, so easy to fix!
So what's the problem? Make your Orions green. Problem solved, nothing to fix on Cryptic's end at all.
I think his issue is all the pink skinned Orions running around in bikinis with max boob sliders, operated by autistic perverts.
Or maybe he just needs more cheese in his diet. Edit: Or more coffee. Coffee fixes everything.
What is egregious is the crooked pelvic stance used by many female characters, Orion or otherwise. Not even Mudd's Women employed that stance let alone Fleet Admirals, Dahar Masters and the like.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There is a lot of stuff in this game that isn't canon. Asking to have skin tones on a single species removed because it isn't canon is kinda, ridiculous. You might as well ask them to remove 75% of the ships from this game, or the popular Risian Caracal pets from the summer event. Heck, when did Talaxians ever join Starfleet and the KDF? As a lifetime member I can play as one.
There is only so much canon stuff that Cryptic can use. If we were left with only stuff seen in the TV shows and movies we wouldn't have much of a game.
I like how they have expanded on canon, adding more to it and referencing what was seen in the shows and movies. There are some very well done stories in the game that Cryptic came up with, with more to come.
If it wasn't for Cryptic, we wouldn't have ever found out just how sexy the Iconians really are. They were never seen on any shows or movies; they were merely mentioned and talked about a little.
#TakeMyNandiCauseItIsn'tCanon
Nah just asking them to please consider in this instance the trek canon and Keep Orions Green.
Its such an egregious thing and so easy, so easy to fix!
So what's the problem? Make your Orions green. Problem solved, nothing to fix on Cryptic's end at all.
I think his issue is all the pink skinned Orions running around in bikinis with max boob sliders, operated by autistic perverts.
Or maybe he just needs more cheese in his diet. Edit: Or more coffee. Coffee fixes everything.
If that is the case he can look/run away and go have some coffee. Problem solved again.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Besides making them properly green, perhaps mandating proper combat attire for away missions or shipboard duties would be in order, including for captains.
Some sense of safe, survival-oriented, and functional attire would only come naturally to a starship captain and their crews of course, whether on the ship or ground.
My opinions do not change based on what someone said about me, quite frankly. And I'm not dictating what's acceptable and what's not. I /can/ laugh about things I don't like & if I think people making skimpy-females to support whatever fantasies they get are funny, I can, right?
What about the fact that they admit starting this thread to rile people up here in that linked thread? Surely it's worth a few infractions if you have what amounts to trolling confessions.
Oh, and hi, guys! I tip my top hat at you. Nice to see you're still using autism as a slur. Keeping the hate speech classy, as usual!
Besides making them properly green, perhaps mandating proper combat attire for away missions or shipboard duties would be in order, including for captains.
Some sense of safe, survival-oriented, and functional attire would only come naturally to a starship captain and their crews of course, whether on the ship or ground.
What about the fact that they admit starting this thread to rile people up here in that linked thread? Surely it's worth a few infractions if you have what amounts to trolling confessions.
See, this is not about white Orions at all. This is part of an agenda.
My opinions do not change based on what someone said about me, quite frankly. And I'm not dictating what's acceptable and what's not. I /can/ laugh about things I don't like & if I think people making skimpy-females to support whatever fantasies they get are funny, I can, right?
What about the fact that they admit starting this thread to rile people up here in that linked thread? Surely it's worth a few infractions if you have what amounts to trolling confessions.
Oh, and hi, guys! I tip my top hat at you. Nice to see you're still using autism as a slur. Keeping the hate speech classy, as usual!
What goes on outside of anything owned/operated by Cryptic and PWE is out of their control. I don't think the moderators can take anything outside these forums into account, nor should they. They can only moderate for what is posted on these forums.
Heh, also.... it IS canon that not all Orions are green.
greens still a good color ^^
Nice ...
If I look left, if I look right,
let no green babe escape my sight,
let babes who wear cat suits so tight,
be seen all around this Star Trek site.
Anyway, green is a fine color, but it isn't the only one, obviously. SO why settle for one, because one is less than two, and also less than three, by a reasonable extension of that original thought process
However you slice it, less is not going to provide more when it comes to costume options, unless maybe it's an Orion bikini. Less could be more in that case, I suppose.
I did decide yesterday to make a whole ton of Orion Boffs who were all colors except green. Haven't started yet, and actually bikinis are very limiting when trying to define a characters personality. From a writers standpoint they are made for shallow TV and video game viewing, not so much for prose.
What goes on outside of anything owned/operated by Cryptic and PWE is out of their control. I don't think the moderators can take anything outside these forums into account, nor should they. They can only moderate for what is posted on these forums.
Pretty much, this, yes.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
If I'm understanding this argument correctly the OP wants Orions to be green, yes?
But Orions can be green now...
So the OP wants Cryptic to take away customization options from players forcing everyone to make the same color Orion characters?
Seems a bit petty doesn't it?
Apologies if this sounds like meaningless trolling, but I'm actually somewhat confused about this... discussion? Is that the right word? Things here are still relatively civil, right?
Wow...some of the people I'm agreeing with on this topic are people I'd never expect, but yeah I agree it should be changed...I mean the only reason these people are making them such a color is so they can be a scantily clad *human*.
Which is stupid because you don't look human...you look like a peach or a light carrot...obviously not human...if you can pretend you're human when you look like a piece of fruit why can't you pretend you're human when you look like a vegetable?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
My opinions do not change based on what someone said about me, quite frankly. And I'm not dictating what's acceptable and what's not. I /can/ laugh about things I don't like & if I think people making skimpy-females to support whatever fantasies they get are funny, I can, right?
What about the fact that they admit starting this thread to rile people up here in that linked thread? Surely it's worth a few infractions if you have what amounts to trolling confessions.
Oh, and hi, guys! I tip my top hat at you. Nice to see you're still using autism as a slur. Keeping the hate speech classy, as usual!
What goes on outside of anything owned/operated by Cryptic and PWE is out of their control. I don't think the moderators can take anything outside these forums into account, nor should they. They can only moderate for what is posted on these forums.
And if there are obvious signs of insincerity here, I think outside information should be factored into an assessment of penalties.
Use this thread alone as evidence of insincere trolling. Use the supplemental evidence (complete with reliable timestamps) as additional evidence.
It would be nice if we knew whether their comments there about Butts being given access to dev tools were about trolling this thread or were a real sign of massive incompetence and malice on Cryptic's part.
(( The brilliant Orion biochemist Peh'ni adjusted the shoulder straps of her nearly nothing bikini plate armor as she walked towards the laboratory. "This was an important day." she thought to herself, " We are going to recreate the augment virus, but this time without the negative effects! Victory will belong to ... the Syndicate!"
She smiled to herself, and stopped to check her reflection in a large glass tank, paying no attention to the tanks lonely occupant. Her armor still looked not quite right to her. Peh'ni turned around looking behind herself and decided it was definitely not right. " My butt looks big in this armor, I hope nobody notices before I can retrieve a bigger loincloth ..." It was then she realized the Klingon rebel restrained inside the glass tank had been staring right at the gap in her armor.
" Dammit!" she said, whirling around and storming back to her quarters, " I hate delaying my evil schemes and biochemical breakthroughs like this, but a leading mind in biochemistry must always look her best while randomly seducing people ." She got inside her doorway, her vastly potent mind working on what she should do next.
She looked in a full length mirror thinking it would be nice if she could just wave her hand and make the big butt slide into a smaller size, but she didn't have much time for fantasy right now. She might be a little pudgy but she knew the boys only really loved her for her incredible powers of reason. It was one of her most active traits.
"Maybe I can sell this new formula to some Great House and then go to Gornstroms and get a few new outfits?" she considered, "I should have enough to do that, if I alter my plans slightly ..." she took a seductive pose, for no apparent reason, and gave it all a little more thought. "I don't want to sell it though. I want to be the one who rules the galaxy. not some smelly, macho, Klingon idiot!". She calmed down.
Switching to a relaxed pose, she continued to study herself. "I am getting a little pale ..." she thought, "Maybe I should get some of that olive colored lotion that the Gorns use for dry, scaly skin? I'm going to be there anyway. Should I? I don't have it in my budget, but I don't want to lose my green Orion mystique, so I guess maybe I should" After awhile she took a thoughtful pose, and this worked better for her. Being a brilliant scientist in a metal bikini, she decided quickly!
"I have it! " She exclaimed, reaching suddenly for her Ferengi Express card. "No need to use cash, when I have credit!" Peh'ni reasoned with her scientifically honed mind. Grabbing her communicator, she had herself immediately beamed to directly to Gornstroms! "Maybe I'll get a hat while I'm here?" she thought.))
Green Orions are kind of silly, canon or not
Wow...some of the people I'm agreeing with on this topic are people I'd never expect, but yeah I agree it should be changed...I mean the only reason these people are making them such a color is so they can be a scantily clad *human*.
Actually, no. FASA's Trek tabletop RPG has the "Ruddy Orions" as a former ruling class of the Orion people. Many STO players have played the RPG in question (and I myself have several of the sourcebooks, although I never played the game). Some of those are likely to be making "white" Orions in order to RP as Ruddy Orions because of their former status within Orion society.
Now, as I've said, my two Orions are green (one of them isn't even intended to be an Orion, but a Romulan spy in disguise as an Orion, but that's irrelevant), I'm not a member of any fleet which actually or allegedly "forces" their Orion membership to "bleach" their Orions, and my two Orions are alts, not characters I play a lot, so I have no vested interest in "white" skintone being available for Orions, but I will oppose this rather transparent attempt to grief other players for what it is, and not (as it pretends to be) a "proposal" to force one interpretation of information from hard canon about what an Orion "should" be on the player community.
Comments
If you want your Orion to be green, make it green.
If you don't want your Orion to be green, don't make it green.
If you don't like the fact that someone does or doesn't have a green Orion, get over it, it's not your Orion to judge. Look away if it offense you so much.
Done.
As to the OP, it depends on which version of canon you take as current (hence the options presumably, and that's even before you get into the range of shades comparable human skin can have due to environmental/mixed heritage reasons). While you can't really count the TAS Orion shades (as mentioned before, it's been documented since that the guy in charge of the colouring was colour blind :P), it was stated in the original series pilot that green Orions were a subset of the Orion race and the other Orions shown just looked like white humans (in Pike's Talosian-induced rather dubious fantasy). Enterprise had them as green only when they appeared, and is arguably the most canon out of their screen appearances to date.
Seriously, if this was about diversity, you can still use alien-gen character, if you are true to the claim it's not about the skimpy outfits. That being said - I'm not saying restrict the colors of Orions, thus going too far, and defo have no interest in restricting options for anyone just because I dislike something, but I do think that people who skimp out their female characters for whatever odd fantasies are a low brow; and I make no denial of the fact that laughs and funny discussions always commence, whenever I see a "bleached" Orions. Just visiting Dyson BZ provides the "Barbie-squads" at large, and is a source of many facepalms. Just my opinion though. Duh.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
They made a point of putting emphasis on the word 'green' when describing Orion 'slave women', but so much so, that it strongly implies a couple of other things.
One is illustrated by the way we would use a color descriptive for a human in English (He is a white man, she is a black woman) and if you just add the necessity of galactic racial clarification, you get the perfectly logical relationship between a 'red Human Lakota man', and a 'green Orion slave woman. If you like to see this example as it fits a different universe, you have a Green Barsoomian woman, a White Barsoomian man, a Yellow Barsoomian woman, and a Black Barsoomian man, a 'red Barsoomian slave woman' not to mention a Barsoomian plant man just to give you more logical examples of what that choice of language carries with it in the form of subtle communication.
A second subtle suggestion is that the Orions did keep green slave women who at the time were not defined as specifically being racially Orion. This second seems less likely after Enterprise, but even Enterprise does not negate the previously noted verbal implications made by language usage.
Basically they were in the Rigel system which has so many inhabitable worlds it makes accurately tracking the racial types to be found there very difficult, especially since it was a galactic trading hub. Who really knows what 'race' the green slaves represent? A subject species lumped together under a common Orion political umbrella along with their masters?
In terrestrial terms we have 'Americans'. Do we need to break this down further? Do we realize how many kinds of 'Americans' there are? Which 'Americans' are canon, basing the question off of the first six episodes of the western TV show "Gunsmoke", for example. If we are only seeing a single slice of their whole culture most of the time, we would have the wrong impression from the get go.
Are there any other people who took Anthropology in college? If so, you know that initial examination of a culture has a high chance of establishing misconceptions about that culture if not handled carefully. You can also see how an extraterrestrial people might get the idea that all Humans are some shade of white, if they learned about us from our earliest TV broadcasts.
So what IS the big deal here?
Qapla.
So madame moderator, do you support the op and suggest that he is a good judge between the acceptable and the freakish? I ask because here's what he said about you:
hakimashou (Druk)
Jul 15, 2002
(Picture of Jan Darkrider here)
"they made this freakish person an sto forum mod"
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3627820&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=363
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
I never said or implied that the presence of soft canon elements in STO requires that other soft canon elements be included, much less that all other soft canon elements must be included. There's a still a bit of unflagellated straw poking out of your rhetorical effigy over here. Deal with what I actually said, and not a caricature of it.
And yes, there is evidence that the idea of "white" Orions is canon in relation to STO at present, that being the rather obvious existence of "white" Orions in STO. Whether you like it or not, it's there. Burying your head in the sand and denying the existence of such does not make them non-existent. They do exist in STO.
Contrary to your assertion that no soft canon supports white Orions, as I quoted from Memory Beta, "Caucasian Human" skin tones were given as possible for "Ruddy Orions" in the FASA system. "Ruddy Orion" is not a skintone, but an ethnicity within the Orion species, and that ethnicity includes a spectrum of skintones ranging from a reddish-orange through yellow to the same as that of a Caucasian Human.
There is only so much canon stuff that Cryptic can use. If we were left with only stuff seen in the TV shows and movies we wouldn't have much of a game.
I like how they have expanded on canon, adding more to it and referencing what was seen in the shows and movies. There are some very well done stories in the game that Cryptic came up with, with more to come.
If it wasn't for Cryptic, we wouldn't have ever found out just how sexy the Iconians really are.
#TakeMyNandiCauseItIsn'tCanon
Not everything in this game has to be canon. That was my point.
#TakeMyNandiCauseItIsn'tCanon
So what's the problem? Make your Orions green. Problem solved, nothing to fix on Cryptic's end at all.
I think his issue is all the pink skinned Orions running around in bikinis with max boob sliders, operated by autistic perverts.
Or maybe he just needs more cheese in his diet. Edit: Or more coffee. Coffee fixes everything.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If that is the case he can look/run away and go have some coffee. Problem solved again.
Some sense of safe, survival-oriented, and functional attire would only come naturally to a starship captain and their crews of course, whether on the ship or ground.
That's your problem. I like Tomato Klingons.
But isn't it great that you can make whatever you want? I think it is.
What about the fact that they admit starting this thread to rile people up here in that linked thread? Surely it's worth a few infractions if you have what amounts to trolling confessions.
Oh, and hi, guys! I tip my top hat at you. Nice to see you're still using autism as a slur. Keeping the hate speech classy, as usual!
-- the upper portion of page 4 of FASA's Orions: Book of Common Knowledge
Link to full-sized image
Look at that. "Terran Caucasian." Goodness. Why, it even talks about black Orions!
See, this is not about white Orions at all. This is part of an agenda.
It's time for this thread to be shut down.
What goes on outside of anything owned/operated by Cryptic and PWE is out of their control. I don't think the moderators can take anything outside these forums into account, nor should they. They can only moderate for what is posted on these forums.
Nice ...
If I look left, if I look right,
let no green babe escape my sight,
let babes who wear cat suits so tight,
be seen all around this Star Trek site.
Anyway, green is a fine color, but it isn't the only one, obviously. SO why settle for one, because one is less than two, and also less than three, by a reasonable extension of that original thought process
However you slice it, less is not going to provide more when it comes to costume options, unless maybe it's an Orion bikini. Less could be more in that case, I suppose.
I did decide yesterday to make a whole ton of Orion Boffs who were all colors except green. Haven't started yet, and actually bikinis are very limiting when trying to define a characters personality. From a writers standpoint they are made for shallow TV and video game viewing, not so much for prose.
Qapla
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
But Orions can be green now...
So the OP wants Cryptic to take away customization options from players forcing everyone to make the same color Orion characters?
Seems a bit petty doesn't it?
Apologies if this sounds like meaningless trolling, but I'm actually somewhat confused about this... discussion? Is that the right word? Things here are still relatively civil, right?
Which is stupid because you don't look human...you look like a peach or a light carrot...obviously not human...if you can pretend you're human when you look like a piece of fruit why can't you pretend you're human when you look like a vegetable?
And if there are obvious signs of insincerity here, I think outside information should be factored into an assessment of penalties.
Use this thread alone as evidence of insincere trolling. Use the supplemental evidence (complete with reliable timestamps) as additional evidence.
It would be nice if we knew whether their comments there about Butts being given access to dev tools were about trolling this thread or were a real sign of massive incompetence and malice on Cryptic's part.
(( The brilliant Orion biochemist Peh'ni adjusted the shoulder straps of her nearly nothing bikini plate armor as she walked towards the laboratory. "This was an important day." she thought to herself, " We are going to recreate the augment virus, but this time without the negative effects! Victory will belong to ... the Syndicate!"
She smiled to herself, and stopped to check her reflection in a large glass tank, paying no attention to the tanks lonely occupant. Her armor still looked not quite right to her. Peh'ni turned around looking behind herself and decided it was definitely not right. " My butt looks big in this armor, I hope nobody notices before I can retrieve a bigger loincloth ..." It was then she realized the Klingon rebel restrained inside the glass tank had been staring right at the gap in her armor.
" Dammit!" she said, whirling around and storming back to her quarters, " I hate delaying my evil schemes and biochemical breakthroughs like this, but a leading mind in biochemistry must always look her best while randomly seducing people ." She got inside her doorway, her vastly potent mind working on what she should do next.
She looked in a full length mirror thinking it would be nice if she could just wave her hand and make the big butt slide into a smaller size, but she didn't have much time for fantasy right now. She might be a little pudgy but she knew the boys only really loved her for her incredible powers of reason. It was one of her most active traits.
"Maybe I can sell this new formula to some Great House and then go to Gornstroms and get a few new outfits?" she considered, "I should have enough to do that, if I alter my plans slightly ..." she took a seductive pose, for no apparent reason, and gave it all a little more thought. "I don't want to sell it though. I want to be the one who rules the galaxy. not some smelly, macho, Klingon idiot!". She calmed down.
Switching to a relaxed pose, she continued to study herself. "I am getting a little pale ..." she thought, "Maybe I should get some of that olive colored lotion that the Gorns use for dry, scaly skin? I'm going to be there anyway. Should I? I don't have it in my budget, but I don't want to lose my green Orion mystique, so I guess maybe I should" After awhile she took a thoughtful pose, and this worked better for her. Being a brilliant scientist in a metal bikini, she decided quickly!
"I have it! " She exclaimed, reaching suddenly for her Ferengi Express card. "No need to use cash, when I have credit!" Peh'ni reasoned with her scientifically honed mind. Grabbing her communicator, she had herself immediately beamed to directly to Gornstroms! "Maybe I'll get a hat while I'm here?" she thought.))
Green Orions are kind of silly, canon or not
Qapla
Actually, no. FASA's Trek tabletop RPG has the "Ruddy Orions" as a former ruling class of the Orion people. Many STO players have played the RPG in question (and I myself have several of the sourcebooks, although I never played the game). Some of those are likely to be making "white" Orions in order to RP as Ruddy Orions because of their former status within Orion society.
Now, as I've said, my two Orions are green (one of them isn't even intended to be an Orion, but a Romulan spy in disguise as an Orion, but that's irrelevant), I'm not a member of any fleet which actually or allegedly "forces" their Orion membership to "bleach" their Orions, and my two Orions are alts, not characters I play a lot, so I have no vested interest in "white" skintone being available for Orions, but I will oppose this rather transparent attempt to grief other players for what it is, and not (as it pretends to be) a "proposal" to force one interpretation of information from hard canon about what an Orion "should" be on the player community.