If they want to change their outfit, they have to be an actual Orion.
If they don't, not the end of the world.
A simple solution, no argument there. But it doesn't change the fact that the devs would likely endure many complaints from players about the removed options.
Since the color palettes aren't causing any functional issues, it could be argued "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
It is also a matter of personal preference if a player chooses to make a non-green Orion.
It's also not any more game-breaking or immersion breaking than discoballs. Which are either loved, hated, or ignored, and the Devs have done little to accomidate the players who hate them (aside from the nullifier which elmininates the invouluntary dancing but does not remove the immersion breaking visuals)... See where I'm going?
What is unpleasant for some may be enjoyable for others.
You can't make all of the people happy all of the time.
But if you have a good reason to do something, like correcting an oversight to make the one star trek game more faithful to star trek, you should do it.
By this reasoning, discoballs should be removed from STO, since they are non-canon, serve no functional purpose (by themselves) and are hardly "Star Trek" in any sense of the term, and some players are most annoyed by them...
I must admit, I'm starting to be annoyed by this conversation. You seem to be ignoring all of my logical arguments and focusing on the irrelevant inconsistancies...
It's hard to have a valid discussion with someone who just doesn't listen.
For the record, I'm not opposed to green Orions, but removing customization options would make many players unhappy, and would require effort to accomplish.
Why would the devs do something that would cost them (Cryptic) money in man-hours, to accomplish if it will yield no profits, make only a few players happy and would also risk making many more players unhappy?
I have a green Orion as my main but she is serious not skimpy but that was my choice. I would support more non skimpy armor choices for Orions. The different skin colors are fine as they are. They are not broken so I don't think anything needs fixed for "immersion's" sake.
But it doesn't mean that ALL Orions should be required to be green, to remove options from players makes little sense, also I might add that there is nowhere canonically stated that Orions can't be other colors than green...
But it doesn't mean that ALL Orions should be required to be green, to remove options from players makes little sense, also I might add that there is nowhere canonically stated that Orions can't be other colors than green...
Should all humans have humanoid heads or should some humans have gorn heads and some have bird heads and cat heads?
It depends, do those humans have Caitan or Gorn ancestors?
As much as I'm going to kick myself for bringing it up -
If cryptic was only about money there would be a t6 Connie
i don't think they're allowed to do that by contract, otherwise it'd be in already.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
What this really boils down to is character customization palettes, and what is appropriate to allow for players to customize their characters...
I'll admit green on an Orion is appropriate, but is it right to deny other players who want something different from having the option to do so?
My main Fed has blue hair, should blue be removed from the customization options for Human hair because Humans don't naturally have blue hair? What about Pink, Purple, Green? Where does it stop?
I'd like to remind everyone that this is just a game, if it bothers you what others customize their characters to look like you don't have to look at them, you could rotate your camera, change instances, or even leave the map if it really annoys you.
This is all personal preferences. Is it right for the few who find it repulsive to determine what everyone can or cannot put on their character?
At this point arguments about canon are irrelevant, as many races in STO can be customized with options not seen in canon Star Trek and to fix them all would require significant tweaks to numerous races, not to mention removing the main selling point of the "Alien" race, it's customizability in appearance.
I have no problem with pale orions. What if some of them are albinos? Or half-breeds? Or have a disease? Or if someone wants to RP a captured human who got sold into slavery to the orion syndicate?
Some humans do have Gorn heads or Caitian (at least cat like) heads. The actors wore them to represent those aliens in canonical film, and that is why a character costume system needs to be as diverse as possible to serve the customer base. More different looking people is a good thing, and when you get right down to it, cannonically speaking for all we know Orion culture was dominated by people who just liked to wear green makeup ALL OVER
I mean canonically, we could say that Gorns are just people who move slow, are strong, and like to wear lizard masks
In canon, the USS Eneterprise N.C.C. 1701 was weeks away from help in the TOS, while patrolling regions the NX01 got to in days! Canon is a mushy pile of slop sort of like always wet putty, and it takes the shape of the writers will, and it changes whenever another writer decided to rub out that crease, or add more demension to this or that protrusion.
Warp 8 is this fast, than it is that fast. They fly to the center of the galaxy in days, but can't go to the other side of it in 50+ years even though its only about three times farther away? Orions are green, blue, and probably pink, and Klingons have ridges, ruffles, or are smooth. Lets not mention JJ Trek's Klingons more than to say, 'see what I mean about canon?'
Canon is personal. It transcends the writers of the work being canonized, and because of this, you cannot control it, it will end up mutating beyond all ability to restrain, and it will destroy itself, and rise from it's own ashes. Green Orions are no more sacred than warp factor eleven! We have seen both, and both as as if ashes to the morning sun of the new day! Can we please stop worrying about this? Despite the comedic value, it is getting old
Providing more options for aliens is a good thing. My advice is that OP not go crazy trying to take options away.
Why not propose instead, a Universal costume generator irrespective of faction, that all sides can use to make whatever combination they want to. The Game Designers can list some specific races 'pure blood' apprearance recipes, and players who stick with that can get a free trait of a very, very specific type. Otherwise, it's a big galaxy and we don't need to put walls around it.
Or if someone wants to RP a captured human who got sold into slavery to the orion syndicate?.
Then they're not Orions and shouldn't be using the Orion species as a template. You wouldn't make a Gorn to represent a human captured by the Gorn, would you?
Or if someone wants to RP a captured human who got sold into slavery to the orion syndicate?.
Then they're not Orions and shouldn't be using the Orion species as a template. You wouldn't make a Gorn to represent a human captured by the Gorn, would you?
But what if they are transpecies and identify as Gorn? It wouldn't be politically correct to tell them they're not!
Or if someone wants to RP a captured human who got sold into slavery to the orion syndicate?.
Then they're not Orions and shouldn't be using the Orion species as a template. You wouldn't make a Gorn to represent a human captured by the Gorn, would you?
But what if they are transpecies and identify as Gorn? It wouldn't be politically correct to tell them they're not!
then send em on a mission the is lethal for non gorn. :P
and yes green people should be green.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
As much as I'm going to kick myself for bringing it up -
If cryptic was only about money there would be a t6 Connie
Well, you have me there. lol sry cryptic
as for the orions, i would of figured the aliens race on the kdf side would probably suit the need for mixed races, i imagine u would probably have more costume options going with alien too. speaking of green skins, what happened to the tos gorn options?
Or if someone wants to RP a captured human who got sold into slavery to the orion syndicate?.
Then they're not Orions and shouldn't be using the Orion species as a template. You wouldn't make a Gorn to represent a human captured by the Gorn, would you?
So then where is the template to create a KDF faction human? See we are working with what we have here. I have a KDF Andorian because I found a way. I have a UFP Orion because I found a way, but if you take away all the toys, we won't have those options anymore, and those of us who like the story of someone displaced from thier home tying to make it in a strange and hostile culture can't do that anymore. Adventure is the most canonical thing about Star Trek.
Besides, as I pointed out, Gorns are human, they just like to wear lizard man costumes ... Maybe some of them are rebels, and want out of the rubber suit?! Maybe some Starfleet humans want to wear a rubber lizard suit. Why not? After all Romulans are humans wearing fake ears, so I really don't see what the big deal is ...
If there was a Augment Klingon template maybe we could use that for 'humans', but that ain't there either. Basically, I see some folks argueing to take something away from other people. For not a good enough reason, and especially since there are many good reasons not to take it away. I am firmly commited to not taking anything away from the game if it reduces any of our options. As far as canon goes, I love knowing it, but it is ultimately to maleable a thing to be useful.
The concept of IDIC !
IDIC is very canonical. This whole thread is driven by someone attempting to argue against that concept, for the sake of an imagined Orion racial purity. The arguement in favor of imagined racial purity for Orions is actually not very consistant with Star Trek as a whole. I am suspecting that either the ones who started this are either very unfamiliar with the philosophical roots of Star Trek, or that they are trolling the community with some kind of strange joke, or that they wish they could achieve racial purity in RL, but are frustrated there, and so hope to achieve an online apartheid state instead
Mostly I think it's trolling
Anyway, I am going to make a bunch of pink and black, and blue, and white Orion BOFFs to follow all my characters around from now on. I made that decision just now
I personally find it disgusting that green Orions have to cover themselves in white facepaint to try and fit in. Minstrel shows were tasteless when they had white guys in blackface, having green guys in whiteface now isn't any better. Make Orions green.
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
Well, most of us know why people make white'ish Orions. T'is the clothes, as they're the only species people can skimp-out. Go figure.
While I'd be probably one of the last one to go scream 'muh immersion', because I'm not in the business of dictating perception of others' characters, I kinda find the OP's topic pointing at the very obvious, in rather chucklesome way, as to why /some/ people make white Orions. And I do wonder if it's something to laugh about and/or sad at times. But that's just me.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Or if someone wants to RP a captured human who got sold into slavery to the orion syndicate?.
Then they're not Orions and shouldn't be using the Orion species as a template. You wouldn't make a Gorn to represent a human captured by the Gorn, would you?
So then where is the template to create a KDF faction human? See we are working with what we have here. I have a KDF Andorian because I found a way. I have a UFP Orion because I found a way, but if you take away all the toys, we won't have those options anymore, and those of us who like the story of someone displaced from thier home tying to make it in a strange and hostile culture can't do that anymore. Adventure is the most canonical thing about Star Trek.
Besides, as I pointed out, Gorns are human, they just like to wear lizard man costumes ... Maybe some of them are rebels, and want out of the rubber suit?! Maybe some Starfleet humans want to wear a rubber lizard suit. Why not? After all Romulans are humans wearing fake ears, so I really don't see what the big deal is ...
If there was a Augment Klingon template maybe we could use that for 'humans', but that ain't there either. Basically, I see some folks argueing to take something away from other people. For not a good enough reason, and especially since there are many good reasons not to take it away. I am firmly commited to not taking anything away from the game if it reduces any of our options. As far as canon goes, I love knowing it, but it is ultimately to maleable a thing to be useful.
The concept of IDIC !
IDIC is very canonical. This whole thread is driven by someone attempting to argue against that concept, for the sake of an imagined Orion racial purity. The arguement in favor of imagined racial purity for Orions is actually not very consistant with Star Trek as a whole. I am suspecting that either the ones who started this are either very unfamiliar with the philosophical roots of Star Trek, or that they are trolling the community with some kind of strange joke, or that they wish they could achieve racial purity in RL, but are frustrated there, and so hope to achieve an online apartheid state instead
Mostly I think it's trolling
Anyway, I am going to make a bunch of pink and black, and blue, and white Orion BOFFs to follow all my characters around from now on. I made that decision just now
Have a good day.
Ok, this (for the most part) just about sums things up...
I think we're done here, I doubt there will be any civil discussion from this point on, so I'll bid you all Adieu.
(Besides I've stated my arguments and since I highly doubt Cryptic would bother taking the time to make any changes to the racial color palettes this continuing conversation seems pointless, and will likely degrade into flaming soon anyways.)
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I don't really care about making all Orions green or not, but do we know for a fact that ALL 100% Orions are in fact green?
"Because the only ones we saw on screen were all the same shade of green, therefore ALL Orions must be the same shade of green, no exceptions! While we're at it, lets make all Andorians the same shade of blue and make it so they only have white hair!"
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
So then where is the template to create a KDF faction human? See we are working with what we have here.
Alien. People can make "aliens" that look exactly human with the alien species. That's what you are supposed to use when your desired race isn't available. And the Orion traits aren't exactly appropriate to a human, as we don't have
"super-pheromones". But people don't use alien. So why don't people do this? Metal bikinis.
That's it. That is literally it. It has nothing to do with Orions, it has everything to do with running around in underwear.
Don't go trying to sell this as, "But... how else can I make a human KDF-side!?" because everyone knows. This is not some noble crusade to make your desired species, it's a sad attempt to undress your desired species. People can't easily put aliens in metal bikinis which are exclusive to Orions, so Orions it is.
People aren't making due, they're making cut-rate TRIBBLE material.
Comments
By this reasoning, discoballs should be removed from STO, since they are non-canon, serve no functional purpose (by themselves) and are hardly "Star Trek" in any sense of the term, and some players are most annoyed by them...
It's hard to have a valid discussion with someone who just doesn't listen.
For the record, I'm not opposed to green Orions, but removing customization options would make many players unhappy, and would require effort to accomplish.
Why would the devs do something that would cost them (Cryptic) money in man-hours, to accomplish if it will yield no profits, make only a few players happy and would also risk making many more players unhappy?
I will concede that Green Orions are iconic.
But it doesn't mean that ALL Orions should be required to be green, to remove options from players makes little sense, also I might add that there is nowhere canonically stated that Orions can't be other colors than green...
It depends, do those humans have Caitan or Gorn ancestors?
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I'll admit green on an Orion is appropriate, but is it right to deny other players who want something different from having the option to do so?
My main Fed has blue hair, should blue be removed from the customization options for Human hair because Humans don't naturally have blue hair? What about Pink, Purple, Green? Where does it stop?
I'd like to remind everyone that this is just a game, if it bothers you what others customize their characters to look like you don't have to look at them, you could rotate your camera, change instances, or even leave the map if it really annoys you.
This is all personal preferences. Is it right for the few who find it repulsive to determine what everyone can or cannot put on their character?
At this point arguments about canon are irrelevant, as many races in STO can be customized with options not seen in canon Star Trek and to fix them all would require significant tweaks to numerous races, not to mention removing the main selling point of the "Alien" race, it's customizability in appearance.
More customization is better than less.
Don't be racist - albino Orions are people too.
I mean canonically, we could say that Gorns are just people who move slow, are strong, and like to wear lizard masks
In canon, the USS Eneterprise N.C.C. 1701 was weeks away from help in the TOS, while patrolling regions the NX01 got to in days! Canon is a mushy pile of slop sort of like always wet putty, and it takes the shape of the writers will, and it changes whenever another writer decided to rub out that crease, or add more demension to this or that protrusion.
Warp 8 is this fast, than it is that fast. They fly to the center of the galaxy in days, but can't go to the other side of it in 50+ years even though its only about three times farther away? Orions are green, blue, and probably pink, and Klingons have ridges, ruffles, or are smooth. Lets not mention JJ Trek's Klingons more than to say, 'see what I mean about canon?'
Canon is personal. It transcends the writers of the work being canonized, and because of this, you cannot control it, it will end up mutating beyond all ability to restrain, and it will destroy itself, and rise from it's own ashes. Green Orions are no more sacred than warp factor eleven! We have seen both, and both as as if ashes to the morning sun of the new day! Can we please stop worrying about this? Despite the comedic value, it is getting old
Providing more options for aliens is a good thing. My advice is that OP not go crazy trying to take options away.
Why not propose instead, a Universal costume generator irrespective of faction, that all sides can use to make whatever combination they want to. The Game Designers can list some specific races 'pure blood' apprearance recipes, and players who stick with that can get a free trait of a very, very specific type. Otherwise, it's a big galaxy and we don't need to put walls around it.
Qapla
Then they're not Orions and shouldn't be using the Orion species as a template. You wouldn't make a Gorn to represent a human captured by the Gorn, would you?
But what if they are transpecies and identify as Gorn? It wouldn't be politically correct to tell them they're not!
then send em on a mission the is lethal for non gorn.
and yes green people should be green.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I don't need to post my view, someone already did it for me.
Well, you have me there. lol sry cryptic
as for the orions, i would of figured the aliens race on the kdf side would probably suit the need for mixed races, i imagine u would probably have more costume options going with alien too. speaking of green skins, what happened to the tos gorn options?
So then where is the template to create a KDF faction human? See we are working with what we have here. I have a KDF Andorian because I found a way. I have a UFP Orion because I found a way, but if you take away all the toys, we won't have those options anymore, and those of us who like the story of someone displaced from thier home tying to make it in a strange and hostile culture can't do that anymore. Adventure is the most canonical thing about Star Trek.
Besides, as I pointed out, Gorns are human, they just like to wear lizard man costumes ... Maybe some of them are rebels, and want out of the rubber suit?! Maybe some Starfleet humans want to wear a rubber lizard suit. Why not? After all Romulans are humans wearing fake ears, so I really don't see what the big deal is ...
If there was a Augment Klingon template maybe we could use that for 'humans', but that ain't there either. Basically, I see some folks argueing to take something away from other people. For not a good enough reason, and especially since there are many good reasons not to take it away. I am firmly commited to not taking anything away from the game if it reduces any of our options. As far as canon goes, I love knowing it, but it is ultimately to maleable a thing to be useful.
The concept of IDIC !
IDIC is very canonical. This whole thread is driven by someone attempting to argue against that concept, for the sake of an imagined Orion racial purity. The arguement in favor of imagined racial purity for Orions is actually not very consistant with Star Trek as a whole. I am suspecting that either the ones who started this are either very unfamiliar with the philosophical roots of Star Trek, or that they are trolling the community with some kind of strange joke, or that they wish they could achieve racial purity in RL, but are frustrated there, and so hope to achieve an online apartheid state instead
Mostly I think it's trolling
Anyway, I am going to make a bunch of pink and black, and blue, and white Orion BOFFs to follow all my characters around from now on. I made that decision just now
Have a good day.
While I'd be probably one of the last one to go scream 'muh immersion', because I'm not in the business of dictating perception of others' characters, I kinda find the OP's topic pointing at the very obvious, in rather chucklesome way, as to why /some/ people make white Orions. And I do wonder if it's something to laugh about and/or sad at times. But that's just me.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
The lighter shades are green. Just light green to extremely pale green.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Ok, this (for the most part) just about sums things up...
I think we're done here, I doubt there will be any civil discussion from this point on, so I'll bid you all Adieu.
(Besides I've stated my arguments and since I highly doubt Cryptic would bother taking the time to make any changes to the racial color palettes this continuing conversation seems pointless, and will likely degrade into flaming soon anyways.)
M'Ress says... two.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
"Because the only ones we saw on screen were all the same shade of green, therefore ALL Orions must be the same shade of green, no exceptions! While we're at it, lets make all Andorians the same shade of blue and make it so they only have white hair!"
That's pretty much the argument.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Alien. People can make "aliens" that look exactly human with the alien species. That's what you are supposed to use when your desired race isn't available. And the Orion traits aren't exactly appropriate to a human, as we don't have
"super-pheromones". But people don't use alien. So why don't people do this? Metal bikinis.
That's it. That is literally it. It has nothing to do with Orions, it has everything to do with running around in underwear.
Don't go trying to sell this as, "But... how else can I make a human KDF-side!?" because everyone knows. This is not some noble crusade to make your desired species, it's a sad attempt to undress your desired species. People can't easily put aliens in metal bikinis which are exclusive to Orions, so Orions it is.
People aren't making due, they're making cut-rate TRIBBLE material.
If you're gonna do it, then own it.