Sadly guys this just falls on the ears of people who just have no interest in fixing anything.
I created a thread about boycotting the new ships which was swiftly locked by a Mod, just as I thought it would be.
I understand that the gfx designers don't have anything to do with fixing the lag, I'm really not that much of an idiot, but when the game is in such a horrible and unplayable state it's nothing but a total kick in the face to be rubbing new ships in our faces whilst at the same time doing next to nothing about the lag issues.
Surely the cleverest thing to do would be to put the new things you are trying to sell "On Hold" until the game is in a playable state ?
What is going on is only alienating the players and pushing them away.
The sad fact is that the people that seem most affected by this are the higher level players. The ones that spend money on the new ships, that buy ships just for the traits and so on.
I have been unable to play this game for such a long time now that I have pretty much decided that I will no longer put any money into this game.
I really don't see the point since I cannot really play it. I cannot use any of the things that I have bought ! If other people actually did the same maybe they would sit up and take a bit of notice ? Since money really is all they seem to care about
Pinging patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 208.95.185.41: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=47
Reply from 208.95.185.41: bytes=32 time=96ms TTL=47
Reply from 208.95.185.41: bytes=32 time=94ms TTL=47
Reply from 208.95.185.41: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=47
Ping statistics for 208.95.185.41:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 94ms, Maximum = 101ms, Average = 97ms
Tracing route to patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms ██.█.█.█
2 9 ms 12 ms 12 ms ██.███.██.██
3 50 ms 15 ms 8 ms xe-1-0-0-0-sur03.longview.wa.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.216.241]
4 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms ae-2-0-sur04.longview.wa.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.222.206]
5 13 ms 11 ms 14 ms ae-56-0-ar03.troutdale.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.222.209]
6 20 ms 28 ms 16 ms he-0-4-0-2-11-cr02.seattle.wa.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.90.213]
7 17 ms 18 ms 15 ms he-0-12-0-1-pe04.seattle.wa.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.82.230]
8 17 ms 17 ms 18 ms as174.seattle.wa.ibone.comcast.net [66.208.228.110]
9 280 ms 44 ms 39 ms be2085.ccr21.slc01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.2.198]
10 67 ms 75 ms 371 ms be2126.ccr21.den01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.65]
11 272 ms 77 ms 67 ms be2128.ccr21.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.174]
12 69 ms 69 ms 68 ms be2156.ccr41.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.6.86]
13 87 ms 74 ms 77 ms be2351.ccr21.cle04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.86]
14 92 ms 131 ms 88 ms be2009.ccr21.alb02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.89]
15 97 ms 115 ms391 ms be2299.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.43.9]
16 96 ms 100 ms117 ms te0-0-1-0.rcr11.b002133-1.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.134]
17 104 ms 94 ms 101 ms 38.111.40.114
18 91 ms 390 ms 91 ms patchserver2.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41]
Trace complete.
Ping and tracert performed while frozen in combat at Memba III playing story mission on KDF-aligned Rom character, resulting in DC after "server not responding" repeatedly and for long durations. See? It's not "us". It's "you", Cryptic/IMPerfect World. And this is using your own suggested methods (ping, tracert) with your own criteria (>180).
It's not even an STF with a ton of mobs.
It's not even a team mission.
It's one character against 1-3 enemies in space. That's it. And it's lagalicious.
I won't even go into Herald ground fights...:mad:
Not to mention when you claim it's our ISP or our computers or someone else's network (anyone but YOU), you fail to see that, while we're lagging or rubberbanding or being DCed from the game, we're coming on to this forum to complain about it and not having any issues whatsoever with lag or connectivity. And it's YOUR forum (just not the game).
The game is broken. Quit adding new content.
FIX.
THE.
GAME.
FYI, I'm not a F2Per. I paid to play, not to lag.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Recorded on 5th May 2015 at 0700 Australian Central Time.
In support of this thread this is a lag free Battle of Korfez. As any player of STO who regularly plays Korfez knows, this map has a particular problem with lag when maxed out builds are on the map and especially when Command Ships (with their Inspiration Generating Ability) and/or the recently added Command Specialization Tree are present and active.
This video is a PUG Battle of Korfez containing the following player's starships:
1) Andorian Charal T5-U Escort (Piloted by me)
2) Wells Temporal Science Vessel T5-U
3) Long Range Science Vessel - Intrepid Class
4) Risian Corvette T5-U
5) Intel Phantom Escort T6
As far as starship traits go, I was running Pedal to the Metal, Reciprocity, All Hands on Deck and Supremacy. The Wells was running at least Pedal to the Metal and Supremacy.
There was no command tree active on the map and I only have a partial intel/pilot tree completed on this character.
The other thing to note is the number of ability/buff/debuff flags. The number of flags I have is a typical number for max build players. The Temporal Science ship is also a maxed out build and has a similar number of flags. The Risian Corvette has fewer still, the Phantom even less again and is the average amount a new or casual player would have. And finally, the Intrepid has little to no flags.
We observe lag when there are Command Ships in the queue, the Command Spec tree is being used by someone (meaning 3 active trees in the one instance) and when all 5 players have all their abilities/buffs/debuffs active which can be 25+ flags each. So for example, a 5 scimitar PVE could have in excess of 125-150 active flags. This is a lot of calculations and polling for the game server to do to the players in that match. The Command Ship/Tree compounds this problem. But in this Korfez, less than half the number of flags are active.
This therefore, supports our assertions as well as the Devs explanation to the community on the issue. This is also a possible reason why players like Plasmanugget say they have no lag (no, thats ok mate. I'll bring your proof for you. I hope it doesn't make you sick) as those players don't have resource intensive builds.
Regards,
Snipey47a
P.S. Sorry for the sloppy piloting... I've grown so used to the lag that I was having trouble adjusting to the smoothness & speed lol
This therefore, supports our assertions as well as the Devs explanation to the community on the issue. This is also a possible reason why players like Plasmanugget say they have no lag (no, thats ok mate. I'll bring your proof for you. I hope it doesn't make you sick) as those players don't have resource intensive builds.
Unfortunately, your example holds no water as the ever-increasing occurences of lag/rubberbanding/DC extend beyond these example STFs that you all are posting (hence my post just before yours).
I wasn't in an STF, normal, advanced, or elite. I wasn't in a multi-player instance. I was on my Lieutenant-11 KDF character in a solo-player story mission with no more than 3 active mobs at any one time, and I was stuttering and bouncing all over the place. It has been like this all day (that I've been playing the game). It doesn't require an STF, multiple players, a high volume of traits or buffs, or a complicated build to trip up the game server.
Pings and tracerts can be horrendous at sometimes and beautiful at others and it doesn't seem to matter anymore. Login timeouts, long character load times, "server not responding" over and over and extending sometimes more than 5 minutes, all point to a serious problem within the game itself, not networks or player PCs. I can play any other game, MMO or otherwise, surf the 'net, stream video, anything and be perfectly fine, even post on these forums, but as soon as I get into the game...LLLAAAGGG...
The game is broken. It has had terrible lag and DC issues since the WW and it's gotten continuously worse with every new development in the game. It has nothing to do with STFs or builds. It's making players, F2P and paying alike, angry and ready to quit. It's been months of talk by the devs and CMs but very little visible effort taken to improve the situation. All we seem to see is more content released to cover the cracks, and the cracks are getting bigger all the time.
If I didn't know better (well, I don't know better, in fact, I honestly think...), I'd think the devs and CMs really just don't give a damn about their own game and have no pride (shame) in the (lack of) quality in their work.
No amount of Pledge is going to cover up the big growing crack in the dinner table. Eventually, people are going to eat elsewhere.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The lag has gotten so bad of late that i dont even play STO as much as in the past that along with other issues has made me start looking elsewhere for gaming enjoyment.
Cryptic with the release of DR showed the path they were taking STO and with each subsaquent patch and expansion things will just continue down this path.
Ive wondered why and my conclusion and i know it wont be a popular is they are trying to get as much money in the shortest span of time possible wont suprise me this game shuts down on the 50th anniversary of trek imo.
It would have been interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of that 20 man instance with all the command ships/traits or whatever and another run a few minutes later in the same instance, same 20 people but with them all in regular ships like T4, T5 or T5U and with no carriers, no command ships, no command traits and no romulan ships (since someone a while back mentioned singularity abilities using the same check system).
I do believe you guys but i just want to see how bad/good it can get.
Enough is enough, stop telling us that you have people working on it; i don't care about words. I only care about results.
Ah yes, the Pointy Headed Boss School of Code Development.
Look, its well known now to all but the most attention deprived that there's a lag problem. The devs are well aware of this. And repeatedly shouting 'FIX THIS' won't make them fix it any faster. If you want to help, try perhaps offering temporary solutions to alleviate the problem.
Let's try this: The possibility of temporarily disabling lag-inducing commands and powers while the devs fix the issue. Yeah, it will suck that you paid for stuff that isn't working, here's some zen / dil / whatever as a 'we're sorry'.
Look, its well known now to all but the most attention deprived that there's a lag problem. The devs are well aware of this. And repeatedly shouting 'FIX THIS' won't make them fix it any faster. If you want to help, try perhaps offering temporary solutions to alleviate the problem.
Not listening is not listening, that simple.
I and many many other players have been shouting "FIX THIS" for months at the minimum (at least since WW), and all we hear in response are excuses (both by CMs and by "white knight" players) and the announcements of new material. What we are not hearing is "hey guys, we heard your complains, we worked on it, we found the problem, and we are fixing it". And any time some shmo, expecially if it's a company rep, claims the game is not broken and the problem exists with Cogentco/Comcast/the players' various systems, when all evidence is to the contrary, it's just plain insulting.
When the Known Issues of the Release Notes gets longer and longer and keeps saying the same things, this is also evident that, despite what some (like you) say about the devs, they really just don't give a damn about fixing the game.
The sorry thing is that the broken game reflects negatively upon their developmental talents, no matter how many shiny new ships they add to the C-Store to suck more money out of the players' wallets.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Ah yes, the Pointy Headed Boss School of Code Development.
Look, its well known now to all but the most attention deprived that there's a lag problem. The devs are well aware of this. And repeatedly shouting 'FIX THIS' won't make them fix it any faster. If you want to help, try perhaps offering temporary solutions to alleviate the problem.
I think sarcasmdetector and their group have done more than enough to illustrate (and document in detailed posts), vids and all, what the likely culprits are. At this point, honestly, like I said as well, they need to start actually working on fixing the lag. Remember, in Alien, when Ash said "We're still collating."? At some point, LOL, ppl had enough of that. :P
Let's try this: The possibility of temporarily disabling lag-inducing commands and powers while the devs fix the issue. Yeah, it will suck that you paid for stuff that isn't working, here's some zen / dil / whatever as a 'we're sorry'.
Yeah. Naturally ppl would frown at that; but doing so for, say, a few hours, just to see whether the lag is indeed Command ships-induced, that might actually be a good idea. Like a large, announced Community test.
Ok, just did a fleet base defense mission. Only 5 of us there, none in command ships (in fact, only I was in an admiral level ship, a Pathfinder, the others were all commanders).
Before the enemy arrived, I started my engines and began bouncing back and forth. Eventually, the enemy warped in, an Orion corvette. I pressed my HY Torpedoes, waited about 10 seconds for it to activate, then pressed the space bar to fire. After about 5 seconds, the first torpedo fired (HY2 fires three times), then disappeared and fired again when my ship bounced backwards, then disappeared and fired again. About 15 seconds later, the second torpedo fired, then fired again, then again. Then all the torpedoes vanished and it started firing again from the first torpedo.
This went on for about 4 minutes, before all the torpedoes fired. They never did hit the target, because it suddenly warped out of arc, about 40 km behind me somewhere, and all the torpedoes disappeared.
The game cannot be played this way. Nothing else matters at this point, Cryptic. You CANNOT let this continue, or this game is finished. People will not pay for a game they can't play, no matter how shiny your fancy new ships might be.
I think the Fleet Alert map has got issues or has been throttled to the hilt.
Yeah. Naturally ppl would frown at that; but doing so for, say, a few hours, just to see whether the lag is indeed Command ships-induced, that might actually be a good idea. Like a large, announced Community test.
I think it makes sense. And given the choice between constant game breaking lag and not being able to use a ship for a few days while they sort stuff out, I'd like to think the overwhelming majority would choose the latter option.
It took PvPers 5 years to all quit (well, the majority anyway). How long are you guys going to hang it in there?
Probably not another 5 years, like you guys. And with me likely many others won't. The game needs to be playable. It doesn't even need to be good per se: it just needs to be playable, foremost.
Now you know what it's like to be a PvPer in this game :P. Welcome to the club.
Or a KDF-er, endlessly holding out hopes for better times. Or a KDF-er who also happens to be a PvP-er. :P
Probably not another 5 years, like you guys. And with me likely many others won't. The game needs to be playable. It doesn't even need to be good per se: it just needs to be playable, foremost.
Or a KDF-er, endlessly holding out hopes for better times. Or a KDF-er who also happens to be a PvP-er. :P
Maybe thats the evil masterplan behind all the lagging... Make us happy to be able to play even if the game sucks instread of screeming for more/harder/whatever content
Maybe thats the evil masterplan behind all the lagging... Make us happy to be able to play even if the game sucks instread of screeming for more/harder/whatever content
Will cyptic act and fix the mess they have created. Not looking like it at the moment so there is only one thing for it.
"not another penny".
Only weapon the player base has in reality.
Until they fix the unplayable lag issues, not another penny.
Forget about not another penny, I won't even play the game until this problem is fixed its just impossible enjoy. Any content is more slideshow than video game right now. Only Cryptic would release new content for a game that is this unstable. It's just incredible to me that Cryptic actually seems to believe that if they just ignore a problem it will go away.
Well everytime "the few" keep taking their business elsewhere over time that becomes a huge and considerable loss of income.
Indeed, its not smart to ignore technical issues at all. Even if it is affecting a few, because they have this nasty habit of progressing into major user-wide problems.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical
Comments
I created a thread about boycotting the new ships which was swiftly locked by a Mod, just as I thought it would be.
I understand that the gfx designers don't have anything to do with fixing the lag, I'm really not that much of an idiot, but when the game is in such a horrible and unplayable state it's nothing but a total kick in the face to be rubbing new ships in our faces whilst at the same time doing next to nothing about the lag issues.
Surely the cleverest thing to do would be to put the new things you are trying to sell "On Hold" until the game is in a playable state ?
What is going on is only alienating the players and pushing them away.
The sad fact is that the people that seem most affected by this are the higher level players. The ones that spend money on the new ships, that buy ships just for the traits and so on.
I have been unable to play this game for such a long time now that I have pretty much decided that I will no longer put any money into this game.
I really don't see the point since I cannot really play it. I cannot use any of the things that I have bought ! If other people actually did the same maybe they would sit up and take a bit of notice ? Since money really is all they seem to care about
It's not even an STF with a ton of mobs.
It's not even a team mission.
It's one character against 1-3 enemies in space. That's it. And it's lagalicious.
I won't even go into Herald ground fights...:mad:
Not to mention when you claim it's our ISP or our computers or someone else's network (anyone but YOU), you fail to see that, while we're lagging or rubberbanding or being DCed from the game, we're coming on to this forum to complain about it and not having any issues whatsoever with lag or connectivity. And it's YOUR forum (just not the game).
The game is broken. Quit adding new content.
FIX.
THE.
GAME.
FYI, I'm not a F2Per. I paid to play, not to lag.
Recorded on 5th May 2015 at 0700 Australian Central Time.
In support of this thread this is a lag free Battle of Korfez. As any player of STO who regularly plays Korfez knows, this map has a particular problem with lag when maxed out builds are on the map and especially when Command Ships (with their Inspiration Generating Ability) and/or the recently added Command Specialization Tree are present and active.
This video is a PUG Battle of Korfez containing the following player's starships:
1) Andorian Charal T5-U Escort (Piloted by me)
2) Wells Temporal Science Vessel T5-U
3) Long Range Science Vessel - Intrepid Class
4) Risian Corvette T5-U
5) Intel Phantom Escort T6
As far as starship traits go, I was running Pedal to the Metal, Reciprocity, All Hands on Deck and Supremacy. The Wells was running at least Pedal to the Metal and Supremacy.
There was no command tree active on the map and I only have a partial intel/pilot tree completed on this character.
The other thing to note is the number of ability/buff/debuff flags. The number of flags I have is a typical number for max build players. The Temporal Science ship is also a maxed out build and has a similar number of flags. The Risian Corvette has fewer still, the Phantom even less again and is the average amount a new or casual player would have. And finally, the Intrepid has little to no flags.
We observe lag when there are Command Ships in the queue, the Command Spec tree is being used by someone (meaning 3 active trees in the one instance) and when all 5 players have all their abilities/buffs/debuffs active which can be 25+ flags each. So for example, a 5 scimitar PVE could have in excess of 125-150 active flags. This is a lot of calculations and polling for the game server to do to the players in that match. The Command Ship/Tree compounds this problem. But in this Korfez, less than half the number of flags are active.
This therefore, supports our assertions as well as the Devs explanation to the community on the issue. This is also a possible reason why players like Plasmanugget say they have no lag (no, thats ok mate. I'll bring your proof for you. I hope it doesn't make you sick) as those players don't have resource intensive builds.
Regards,
Snipey47a
P.S. Sorry for the sloppy piloting... I've grown so used to the lag that I was having trouble adjusting to the smoothness & speed lol
I wasn't in an STF, normal, advanced, or elite. I wasn't in a multi-player instance. I was on my Lieutenant-11 KDF character in a solo-player story mission with no more than 3 active mobs at any one time, and I was stuttering and bouncing all over the place. It has been like this all day (that I've been playing the game). It doesn't require an STF, multiple players, a high volume of traits or buffs, or a complicated build to trip up the game server.
Pings and tracerts can be horrendous at sometimes and beautiful at others and it doesn't seem to matter anymore. Login timeouts, long character load times, "server not responding" over and over and extending sometimes more than 5 minutes, all point to a serious problem within the game itself, not networks or player PCs. I can play any other game, MMO or otherwise, surf the 'net, stream video, anything and be perfectly fine, even post on these forums, but as soon as I get into the game...LLLAAAGGG...
The game is broken. It has had terrible lag and DC issues since the WW and it's gotten continuously worse with every new development in the game. It has nothing to do with STFs or builds. It's making players, F2P and paying alike, angry and ready to quit. It's been months of talk by the devs and CMs but very little visible effort taken to improve the situation. All we seem to see is more content released to cover the cracks, and the cracks are getting bigger all the time.
If I didn't know better (well, I don't know better, in fact, I honestly think...), I'd think the devs and CMs really just don't give a damn about their own game and have no pride (shame) in the (lack of) quality in their work.
No amount of Pledge is going to cover up the big growing crack in the dinner table. Eventually, people are going to eat elsewhere.
Cryptic with the release of DR showed the path they were taking STO and with each subsaquent patch and expansion things will just continue down this path.
Ive wondered why and my conclusion and i know it wont be a popular is they are trying to get as much money in the shortest span of time possible wont suprise me this game shuts down on the 50th anniversary of trek imo.
I do believe you guys but i just want to see how bad/good it can get.
Ah yes, the Pointy Headed Boss School of Code Development.
Look, its well known now to all but the most attention deprived that there's a lag problem. The devs are well aware of this. And repeatedly shouting 'FIX THIS' won't make them fix it any faster. If you want to help, try perhaps offering temporary solutions to alleviate the problem.
Let's try this: The possibility of temporarily disabling lag-inducing commands and powers while the devs fix the issue. Yeah, it will suck that you paid for stuff that isn't working, here's some zen / dil / whatever as a 'we're sorry'.
I and many many other players have been shouting "FIX THIS" for months at the minimum (at least since WW), and all we hear in response are excuses (both by CMs and by "white knight" players) and the announcements of new material. What we are not hearing is "hey guys, we heard your complains, we worked on it, we found the problem, and we are fixing it". And any time some shmo, expecially if it's a company rep, claims the game is not broken and the problem exists with Cogentco/Comcast/the players' various systems, when all evidence is to the contrary, it's just plain insulting.
When the Known Issues of the Release Notes gets longer and longer and keeps saying the same things, this is also evident that, despite what some (like you) say about the devs, they really just don't give a damn about fixing the game.
The sorry thing is that the broken game reflects negatively upon their developmental talents, no matter how many shiny new ships they add to the C-Store to suck more money out of the players' wallets.
I think sarcasmdetector and their group have done more than enough to illustrate (and document in detailed posts), vids and all, what the likely culprits are. At this point, honestly, like I said as well, they need to start actually working on fixing the lag. Remember, in Alien, when Ash said "We're still collating."? At some point, LOL, ppl had enough of that. :P
Yeah. Naturally ppl would frown at that; but doing so for, say, a few hours, just to see whether the lag is indeed Command ships-induced, that might actually be a good idea. Like a large, announced Community test.
Seriously? Welcome to MY club. I haven't PvPed since DR hit, it's a joke. Now PvE is a absurd farce.
I hear some of the 5 remaining PvPers are switching to PvE... I wish them the best of luck with that. :rolleyes:
I think the Fleet Alert map has got issues or has been throttled to the hilt.
Playable game means more people playing means more people enjoying themselves means more people spending money.
Unplayable game means less people playing means less people having fun less people spending money.
I would GLADLY go 2 or 3 months without ANY new content if you took that time and just fixed as much of the bugs affecting play as possible.
I think it makes sense. And given the choice between constant game breaking lag and not being able to use a ship for a few days while they sort stuff out, I'd like to think the overwhelming majority would choose the latter option.
Probably not another 5 years, like you guys.
Or a KDF-er, endlessly holding out hopes for better times. Or a KDF-er who also happens to be a PvP-er. :P
Maybe thats the evil masterplan behind all the lagging... Make us happy to be able to play even if the game sucks instread of screeming for more/harder/whatever content
Happy like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfOAJBQuMGY
Really good OP you guys did.
Will cyptic act and fix the mess they have created. Not looking like it at the moment so there is only one thing for it.
"not another penny".
Only weapon the player base has in reality.
Until they fix the unplayable lag issues, not another penny.
@DevolvedOne
Is that a real quote in response to the lag problems?
Forget about not another penny, I won't even play the game until this problem is fixed its just impossible enjoy. Any content is more slideshow than video game right now. Only Cryptic would release new content for a game that is this unstable. It's just incredible to me that Cryptic actually seems to believe that if they just ignore a problem it will go away.
Indeed, its not smart to ignore technical issues at all. Even if it is affecting a few, because they have this nasty habit of progressing into major user-wide problems.
Lag Watch:
Delta Rising: Warning
Anniversary Event: Severe
Iconian Season: Critical