I think Cryptic put this in perspective with the 5-year Infographic. 16% of toons are KDF, including unplayed alts.
Given that ship sales are the thing that keeps the lights on, making ships for a market of 73% of potential customers is going to be more lucrative than making ones for a potential 16% (or 11%) of them, no matter how you cut it - so that's what happens. Throw in the lockbox ships that reach 100% of potential buyers and can be used by the minorities, and the appeal of spending expensive and limited art budget on them is pretty low.
So you end up with a chicken and egg thing - there aren't nearly as many KDF players, so making new ships for them will simply not make as much money as making them for the Feds, but not having as many ships makes the KDF less appealing so it doesn't attract as many players.
You do need to give Cryptic some credit for trying. Both the KDF and Rom story missions are better than the Feds. They have interesting and different playstyles that should attract new players. However, none of that seems to really be able to draw new players to them.
HAHA! Right now its my Feds alts that are unplayed. I just found it boring and blah. You know like sitting through a power point presentation on how to prevent people from commiting suicide. By the end of it, all you want to do is kill yourself to end the misery.
Everyone has their own definition of "finished", so there is NO definitive answer to this question. But what *I* would personally like would be one more faction specific story arc for the KDF, as they currently have the least faction specific content. That said, I am satisfied with the current state of the KDF, and appreciate how far they have come since launch.
But as far as ships, revamps, and such. Name one thing that we're asking for that is specifically the Federations? Besides, you can keep you ships. The KDF and Romulans wouldn't be caught dead in your Space Ducks.
Does Science ships count?
Because plenty of KDF have been asking for a KDF equivalent of the Pathfinder or the Vestas. I've even seen a few straight up beg for the Scryer even, doughnut saucer and all.
Aside from that, we've been heading towards a path of commonality between new ships. First we got the Flagships (Odyssey and Bort share identical loadouts; different consoles), then the DSDs (identical consoles, but different loadouts), then the Command ships (identical loadouts, identical consoles, and identical mastery traits), and now the X-faction bundle (Fed/KDF share similar loadouts, all 3 share identical consoles and mastery traits).
On top of that, the Devs themselves said due to the popularity of bundles, they will be doing it more often. We've already seen one Fed and KDF Pilot ship; they're probably going to have the same general layout between them as well.
So sooner or later KDF will get their equivalents to Fed ships; just probably not in the manner they would want (T6 BoP being an oddball due to having no Fed or Rom equivalent; unless they release a T6 Aquarius to match and a new T6 Light Rom Escort).
I'll accept that as a ship you "need" the second people decide the Federation needs a battle cloaking raider. The standard has already been set that a faction can be complete without access to every type of ship. It gives the factions a small bit of uniqueness that. Thus the disclaiming sentence you left off about how sticky this kind of discussion gets when faction identity needs to be maintained.
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And I blame myself for the fact that I have only gotten a single discussion opening answer to my question. I really should have been more clear.
If you're asking for something in this thread, it's because you believe your faction is incomplete without it, not because you simply want it and not because it's being developed too slowly for you.
T6 ships is not a valid response because they are still being added to the game. Cryptic has not declared that they are done with T6 ships, nor have they given any indication that they are slowing production on T6 ships and no faction, even the Federation, has enough T6 options yet.
As such, I'll amend the original post to represent this, but if you could add to your response the reason you believe your faction is incomplete without your requested content, rather than just treating this thread like a letter you're writing to Santa, it would facilitate actual discussion.
So why does the federation need a battle cloaking raider when the KDF doesn't have a T6 raider as of yet? As far as I've seen it is only "hope" amongst the KDF community that the T6 "pilot" spec ship will be a BOP, I've not seen any official confirmation of this anywhere (if I've missed it please point me in the right direction). Feds got a bunch of cloaking intel ships with DR, KDF got a battle cloaking battle cruiser (why instead of a BOP intel ship I still do not understand) and one normal cloaking raptor. Neither roms nor KDF have gotten a real science ship to this day that is even close to the T5 Vesta, let alone an actual T6 science ship. Considering that feds do have multiple T6 ships now with integrated cloaks I see no more reason for excluding roms/KDF from having a real science ship each. Otherwise it seems to me you are just trolling the non-fed community in saying we have enough of everything and that cryptic should focus on your playable borg faction now...
The thing you somehow don't get, is that it has all been said before. Ad nauseum. I've said it. I've made threads. Contributed to others. People say it in this very thread. But you're acting like it's either irrelevant or nonexistent. I seriously thought you were trolling, since the OP is delusional, at best.
So you've come to this thread to insult people who disagree with but otherwise say nothing. Noted, you have insulted me and said nothing, your mission is complete!
It is easy to say that since the years of Fed whining in the years past is long-since over, and many of the best KDF 'toys' have been ported over.
Carriers
Raiders
Uni consoles
More cloaking ships
Possibly other stuff I'm forgetting
Okay, my mistake for getting drawn off topic like this, so I apologize, this will be the last time I address this point. Feds still don't have a battle cloak, so Battle Cloaking Raider is still unique to the KDF and Romulan Republic. Alot of other unique stuff, on both the Fed and KDF side, such as science vessels, carriers, universal bridge officer stations, and consoles, have become available to both factions. The homogenization runs both ways, you just see the Federation ******** about it less because the Klingons started with so much less overall.
However, in the context of THIS thread, we only need to decide whether access to tac-heavy science vessels at tier-6 are essential for faction completion. The general consensus is no.
If what you say is true, then I'd gladly accept not getting a new science ship, because we don't 'need' one, IF we in turn actually got new ships that AREN'T battlecruisers.
Everyone has their own definition of "finished", so there is NO definitive answer to this question. But what *I* would personally like would be one more faction specific story arc for the KDF, as they currently have the least faction specific content. That said, I am satisfied with the current state of the KDF, and appreciate how far they have come since launch.
I'm not even talking about finished because these factions will only be finished when Cryptic stops making money selling new shineys for them. As I tried to explain in my original post, I'm using the adjective form of complete, meaning they have all he necessary and appropriate parts. I'm trying to find out from players, some of them more thoughtful and intelligent than others, if the KDF are missing any essential components.
And as for how far they've come. I sorta feel like a rickety old man sitting on his rocking chair telling boring stories about how bad things used to be, while the younger generation get fired up over some perceived slight that doesn't even register in comparison.
So why does the federation need a battle cloaking raider when the KDF doesn't have a T6 raider as of yet? As far as I've seen it is only "hope" amongst the KDF community that the T6 "pilot" spec ship will be a BOP, I've not seen any official confirmation of this anywhere (if I've missed it please point me in the right direction). Feds got a bunch of cloaking intel ships with DR, KDF got a battle cloaking battle cruiser (why instead of a BOP intel ship I still do not understand) and one normal cloaking raptor. Neither roms nor KDF have gotten a real science ship to this day that is even close to the T5 Vesta, let alone an actual T6 science ship. Considering that feds do have multiple T6 ships now with integrated cloaks I see no more reason for excluding roms/KDF from having a real science ship each. Otherwise it seems to me you are just trolling the non-fed community in saying we have enough of everything and that cryptic should focus on your playable borg faction now...
The Federation doesn't. Please reread the section you quoted, and any of the responses I've already made about this topic, and then ask if you have any questions.
ahem.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.....-gasp of air- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
KDF finished...that's priceless, pure comedy gold.
How bout outside the fact of about 15 original missions for the KDF, it's a copy and paste of the Fed missions with a few cosmetic changes.
Add in the fact missing about 5 iconic bladed weapons for the KDF though somehow the NPCS can use them, Dahar Master coat etc.
Plus the ships. Feds have what 2-3 times the amount of ships the rest of the "Factions" do.
Also story. I mean come on. Cardassian arc and onwards devs could of written completely separate but concurrent stories that complimented eachother but no, just wrote one for the Feds then copy and pasted.
Sorry this is a bunch of BS. KDF finished? What a joke. Only side that is finished is the Feds, devs simply copy and paste for the other sides.
And don't even get me started on the garbage that is Romulans.
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I think after the iconian war they should just go ahead and have the KDF join the federation and move on.
seriously the PvP aspect of this game is not good which is the only selling point to even keep a KDF faction.
I say let them join the federation and move on with the story that way the klingons will get some love aswell oretty much it seems that everyone will join the federation someday.
And then on that day star trek will truely be over and the universe wil be under the federation flag :rolleyes:
ahem.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.....-gasp of air- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
KDF finished...that's priceless, pure comedy gold.
How bout outside the fact of about 15 original missions for the KDF, it's a copy and paste of the Fed missions with a few cosmetic changes.
Add in the fact missing about 5 iconic bladed weapons for the KDF though somehow the NPCS can use them, Dahar Master coat etc.
Plus the ships. Feds have what 2-3 times the amount of ships the rest of the "Factions" do.
Also story. I mean come on. Cardassian arc and onwards devs could of written completely separate but concurrent stories that complimented eachother but no, just wrote one for the Feds then copy and pasted.
Sorry this is a bunch of BS. KDF finished? What a joke. Only side that is finished is the Feds, devs simply copy and paste for the other sides.
And don't even get me started on the garbage that is Romulans.
Save your breath. I believe I hear "LALALALA I can't hear you" somewhere.
ahem.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.....-gasp of air- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
KDF finished...that's priceless, pure comedy gold.
How bout outside the fact of about 15 original missions for the KDF, it's a copy and paste of the Fed missions with a few cosmetic changes.
Add in the fact missing about 5 iconic bladed weapons for the KDF though somehow the NPCS can use them, Dahar Master coat etc.
Plus the ships. Feds have what 2-3 times the amount of ships the rest of the "Factions" do.
Also story. I mean come on. Cardassian arc and onwards devs could of written completely separate but concurrent stories that complimented eachother but no, just wrote one for the Feds then copy and pasted.
Sorry this is a bunch of BS. KDF finished? What a joke. Only side that is finished is the Feds, devs simply copy and paste for the other sides.
And don't even get me started on the garbage that is Romulans.
I'm sorry, I'm going to ignore your childish jabs at those three or four people in this very thread who disagree with you, and all of the other people out there, and simply give you a second chance to contribute.
Why do you think those things are necessary components to your faction? Keep in mind, I didn't ask you what would be needed for you to feel like the KDF faction is as big or supported as the Federation. I didn't ask for a wishlist of all the things you'd like to see. I asked what things would be necessary for you to feel like the KDF faction were complete and WHY they were essential for completion.
So no, please, don't get started on the Romulans, you haven't even started on the KDF yet.
Anyone who actually understand how game development works could tell you that isn't feasible.
Also, to say that its "fed" content that was copy-pasted onto other factions is equally dumb.
Its a freaking ALLIANCE of races, it no one race's content.
I wouldn't say infeasible so much as very very unlikely. Cryptic's development is skewing away from faction unique content in favor of faction agnostic content. Most game developers do this actually, World of Must-Not-Be-Named will usually have two neutral zones for every faction specific zone in any new expansion they launch, just as an example.
And that's sad because "A separate story line that spans the game and makes me feel like a warrior of the Klingon Empire" is the one response that's been made that doesn't seem petty or childish.
Anyone who actually understand how game development works could tell you that isn't feasible.
Also, to say that its "fed" content that was copy-pasted onto other factions is equally dumb.
Its a freaking ALLIANCE of races, it no one race's content.
You mean like they did in the canon materials, TV shows/movies, and thus would in any adaption of those materials?
How bout all the stuff that was left out of the KDF that was in the shows? Hmm plenty there they could throw in.
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From a playable Content standpoint everyone is finished - though they could all use more; especially in the 50+ range.
There is no denying the KDF and Roms are lacking on the cosmetic side: ship choices, clothing, body modification, etc. It would seem that some of these things are being addressed - though probably not as thoroughly as some might like.
I doubt you will ever see ship parity. Every business has to justify man-hours versus ROI. If it takes 100 man-hours to make a ship Cryptic can get a 1% ROI or a 5% ROI they are going to choose the 5% almost every time.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
How bout all the stuff that was left out of the KDF that was in the shows? Hmm plenty there they could throw in.
Well lets be honest about this one, in the 49 years weve had the shows, how much stuff from them has actually been tossed into the game? and how much TRON and MASS EFFECT have we been receiving lately?
This whole thing boils down to whatever fancies the man behind the curtain and its been quite obvious what he fancies for the past 5 years.
I expect responses to follow this approximate format. "For the KDF to be a whole faction they need X. X is essential for KDF completion for the following reasons."
And then what we would discuss would be why X, which could be anything from Dahar Master Robes to a Tier 4 free science vessel are essential for KDF completion.
I still don't understand the purpose.
Klingons had enough content to complete the game challenges BEFORE the revamp. You've arbitrarily decided that "complete" means "enough missions to level without doing patrol grinds" where someone else has arbitrarily decided that "complete" means "a science heavy ship for their science character".
Any discussion is going to be around "feels". You "feel" the KDF and Romulan space force are complete. Others "feel" they are not. Obviously, the format is going to be "here is a list of things that would improve/complete my gameplay experience in the KDF/Romulan space force". You already rejected that from a different poster.
How bout outside the fact of about 15 original missions for the KDF, it's a copy and paste of the Fed missions with a few cosmetic changes.
The same can be said for Roms, which you did not want to mention, but have to be mentioned as they're in the same boat, probably actually a bit worse off. However, the last few Dev statements have said they're sticking with faction-agnostic missions, but are going to have some KDF-centric missions with Feds and Romulans providing support. Both just to take a break from a more Fed-centric general storyline and to also do a little more work on the KDF.
Plus the ships. Feds have what 2-3 times the amount of ships the rest of the "Factions" do.
To be fair, that's due to materials to work with (among other things, such as not really working with KDF ship designers as often as they do with Fed ship designers). As well, KDF also complained that they don't want KDF copies of Fed ships, so they got almost no ships instead. Except now, enough KDF have begged for any ship to match some of the Feds own, and Cryptic has been on a path towards releasing ships across all factions with shared stats, loadouts, mastery traits, or consoles.
An ship KDF (and Romulans) gets will inevitably be tied to a Fed one, except in rare cases such as the Intel ships (in which Feds get priority due to the self-sustaining circle of monetary stability).
On OP's topic proper: KDF, and Romulans as well, is "finished" if you're just going off the most barebones of checks.
Separate Faction at the start? Check.
Unique set of ships? Check.
Unique set of equipment? Check.
Unique set of customization? Check.
Unique story segment? Check.
Balanced within itself? Check.
All classes covered? Check.
Of course, that doesn't take into account the imbalance in ships, equipment, and other things when compared to the original faction.
I'm sorry, I'm going to ignore your childish jabs at those three or four people in this very thread who disagree with you, and all of the other people out there, and simply give you a second chance to contribute.
Why do you think those things are necessary components to your faction? Keep in mind, I didn't ask you what would be needed for you to feel like the KDF faction is as big or supported as the Federation. I didn't ask for a wishlist of all the things you'd like to see. I asked what things would be necessary for you to feel like the KDF faction were complete and WHY they were essential for completion.
So no, please, don't get started on the Romulans, you haven't even started on the KDF yet.
Why do I feel they are necessary. Let me give you an Example. It's like having a star fleet uniform without any combadges.
Or missing a type of phaser. I mean devil is in the details. Lets face it progression wise the Feds have the easiest time because at EVERY tier they have a ship for each profession. KDF doesn't, and Roms sure as hell don't.
I mean we have the Dahar master, but no coat which was a big thing like getting a black belt in Karate. It's like "OK you're a black belt, but you're not getting the belt."
Say what?
And while the bat'leth is cool, how bout Gin'Tak Spear, or Mik'leth or any of the other blades many(including myself) have literally been telling PWE/Cryptic we want and we'd even shell out Zen to do it.
Or the fact up until the Dyson Destroyers came out the KDF didn't have a single decent science ship available. And even then it was here for an event then gone then you have to shell out Zen to get one.
I mean there are a whole HEAP of problems that have yet to be addressed and likely will not. So no, KDF faction let alone Romulan....eh promised not to go there sorry.
But lets face it. Yes everybody wants to be Picard, or Kirk, but for heaven's sake lets balance out the factions we have before there's even talk about adding yet another which will be likely to follow the romulans.
And hell how bout some different stories! Not just 1 and done for 3 factions.
I even made a post about how the devs missed a GOLDEN oppertunity to have 3 separate stories one for KDF, one for Fed one for ROM that each covered a portion of the delta story but would of tied together which would of made it FUN and you'd HAVE to do atleast 1 toon per story to get the whole thing.
Instead again 1 and done. And they are STILL doing it in the Iconian war. Quite sad, lazy and pathetic story writing.
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Save your breath. I believe I hear "LALALALA I can't hear you" somewhere.
Now that's a little unfair, just because you've posted three times and been dismissed as not saying anything doesn't mean he won't contribute. Have faith in people, he atleast tried to address the original post, you're being ignored because you were too cool to even do that.
Klingons had enough content to complete the game challenges BEFORE the revamp. You've arbitrarily decided that "complete" means "enough missions to level without doing patrol grinds" where someone else has arbitrarily decided that "complete" means "a science heavy ship for their science character".
Any discussion is going to be around "feels". You "feel" the KDF and Romulan space force are complete. Others "feel" they are not. Obviously, the format is going to be "here is a list of things that would improve/complete my gameplay experience in the KDF/Romulan space force". You already rejected that from a different poster.
No, what I rejected from a different post was the omission of WHY he felt it was important. You know, the thing that I asked for in the original post you responded to.
I'm not sure how much more simple I can make this to be honest.
"Give me X" is bad.
"The KDF is incomplete without X because y" is good.
And by the way, I didn't arbitrarily pick that point, I subjectively picked that point based on reasoning that I provided. If you wish to subjectively pick a different point, that's fine, you would phrase it as
"The KDF is incomplete without more mission content because y" in this format.
I think after the iconian war they should just go ahead and have the KDF join the federation and move on.
seriously the PvP aspect of this game is not good which is the only selling point to even keep a KDF faction.
I say let them join the federation and move on with the story that way the klingons will get some love aswell oretty much it seems that everyone will join the federation someday.
And then on that day star trek will truely be over and the universe wil be under the federation flag :rolleyes:
How about HELL NO! I joined the KDf because I didn't want to be a part of the Federation any more. If you make the KDF a part of the Federation.... well you actually, just killed the game.
Thats one of the reason multiple faction games do well. I mean hell, look at Scarlet Blade.
Two factions. Still does well for itself. Because the Factions are balanced. This works for any multi-faction game. as long as the sides are equal to each other, you will have player bases as such. Give or take personal play preferences.
As someone else said, Romulans and KDf have like 15 stories all their own. After that its a copy/paste of the federation. This can be over looked simply by not paying any attention nor care to the storyline. Even with the new stuff coming out. Unless I can't just accept a mission to skip over the story, or esc a cutscene, I don't bother with it. Though I do wish they'd stop with the Kurkland popups. Those are just bloody annoying.
Also, I don't see the KDF being able to live up to Starfleet regulations. the federation is more bunny huggers. The KDF are more bunny killers. The two usually do not mix well.
*facepalm* And I should actually read post instead of just skimmingn them. You're last line puts up both in aggreement.
In terms of total story content both the Feds and Roms have 103 missions, while the Klingons have 97.
However, with the upcoming Cardassian story revamp, this is likely to change, as the Feds are bound to LOSE a number of missions.
If the cuts are anything like the Romulan one, and the missions are available to everyone, like the Borg/Undine one was as a shared mission arc, like the Cardy arc is shared, the Romulans are actually in the position to have the MOST content, and the Feds/Klingons are going to have the same amount of content, due to the Feds losing all of their faction specific missions.
The KDF will lose some of those missions as well so likely it will be kept about the same anyways.
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The same can be said for Roms, which you did not want to mention, but have to be mentioned as they're in the same boat, probably actually a bit worse off. However, the last few Dev statements have said they're sticking with faction-agnostic missions, but are going to have some KDF-centric missions with Feds and Romulans providing support. Both just to take a break from a more Fed-centric general storyline and to also do a little more work on the KDF.
To be fair, that's due to materials to work with (among other things, such as not really working with KDF ship designers as often as they do with Fed ship designers). As well, KDF also complained that they don't want KDF copies of Fed ships, so they got almost no ships instead. Except now, enough KDF have begged for any ship to match some of the Feds own, and Cryptic has been on a path towards releasing ships across all factions with shared stats, loadouts, mastery traits, or consoles.
An ship KDF (and Romulans) gets will inevitably be tied to a Fed one, except in rare cases such as the Intel ships (in which Feds get priority due to the self-sustaining circle of monetary stability).
On OP's topic proper: KDF, and Romulans as well, is "finished" if you're just going off the most barebones of checks.
Separate Faction at the start? Check.
Unique set of ships? Check.
Unique set of equipment? Check.
Unique set of customization? Check.
Unique story segment? Check.
Balanced within itself? Check.
All classes covered? Check.
Of course, that doesn't take into account the imbalance in ships, equipment, and other things when compared to the original faction.
Again that's just poor management. They've followed the path of Battlestar galactica online of "Everything equal with a different skin."
Instead of going with "Separate but equal."
But this is highly typical of the years I've been playing this game of one word. LAZINESS. Plain and simple the devs are pure LAZY.
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The KDF will lose some of those missions as well so likely it will be kept about the same anyways.
You forget there's a revamp coming for the Fek'ihri story arc. Just like the character revamps. Though, like always. They aren't atually saying when its coming.
Well lets be honest about this one, in the 49 years weve had the shows, how much stuff from them has actually been tossed into the game? and how much TRON and MASS EFFECT have we been receiving lately?
This whole thing boils down to whatever fancies the man behind the curtain and its been quite obvious what he fancies for the past 5 years.
Yeah I know the whole "tron" TRIBBLE was really in poor taste. Trust me if I headed up this game, well new content as in Iconian and on would come to a screeching halt and I'd redo a lot of missions to have a completely separate story line, but important to the story, much like SWTOR did.
If you want the whole story you literally have to play to ATLEAST the beginning of chapter 4 of every classes path.
If STO had done that from the beginning, more people would take more fun in replaying the stories and might even pump some more money into the game.
And for the Roms, oh god did they TRIBBLE the pooch IMHO. So much they could of done there.
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"Give me X" is bad.
"The KDF is incomplete without X because y" is good.
And by the way, I didn't arbitrarily pick that point, I subjectively picked that point based on reasoning that I provided. If you wish to subjectively pick a different point, that's fine, you would phrase it as
"The KDF is incomplete without more mission content because y" in this format.
You subjectively picked that point based on reasoning that came from "feels". You "felt" grinding the same patrol was boring, yet doing missions (that you played as a Starfleet character) was not boring. Thus, the KDF is "complete", since you don't have to grind patrol missions to level.
Anything anyone posts here is going to be "I feel the KDF is missing x". Often, they will make a comparison to Starfleet content. Then you will tell them "you don't need it". So, again, where is the discussion?
Again that's just poor management. They've followed the path of Battlestar galactica online of "Everything equal with a different skin."
Instead of going with "Separate but equal."
But this is highly typical of the years I've been playing this game of one word. LAZINESS. Plain and simple the devs are pure LAZY.
Bold words from someone who likely hasn't worked in any sort of corporate culture. Devs aren't lazy, they do what they are told to do by their management. If that means art making three ships and systems being told to make all three of them the same, that's what gets done. If it doesn't get done, you get a bad eval and out the door you go, and they hire the next guy who got laid off when his shop was shut down by a publisher because they made the mistake of making a game not enough people bought - that's what lazy get you.
What you're calling laziness is actually the opposite - it's a company trying to push out things on tight deadlines and experimenting with ways to get things done faster. Sometimes those methods work, sometimes they don't.
I've seen a lot of evidence of incompetence (bugs that were fixed but come back the same as they were - that's a symptom of poor source control, plain and simple), but most of that isn't happening much anymore. Laziness, though? No, no evidence of that.
Bold words from someone who likely hasn't worked in any sort of corporate culture. Devs aren't lazy, they do what they are told to do by their management. If that means art making three ships and systems being told to make all three of them the same, that's what gets done. If it doesn't get done, you get a bad eval and out the door you go, and they hire the next guy who got laid off when his shop was shut down by a publisher because they made the mistake of making a game not enough people bought - that's what lazy get you.
What you're calling laziness is actually the opposite - it's a company trying to push out things on tight deadlines and experimenting with ways to get things done faster. Sometimes those methods work, sometimes they don't.
I've seen a lot of evidence of incompetence (bugs that were fixed but come back the same as they were - that's a symptom of poor source control, plain and simple), but most of that isn't happening much anymore. Laziness, though? No, no evidence of that.
Yes actually I have worked some in a corporate culture. And yes I do know about deadlines and yadda yadda yadda.
Point is it IS laziness at some level when they could of just said "hey we're slowing down to offer up something new and different, please bear with us as we make changes."
How many times has that been done in gaming? Too many times to count. Headshed, devs whoever ya want to say took the easy way out. Simple pure laziness.
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HAHA! Right now its my Feds alts that are unplayed. I just found it boring and blah. You know like sitting through a power point presentation on how to prevent people from commiting suicide. By the end of it, all you want to do is kill yourself to end the misery.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Because plenty of KDF have been asking for a KDF equivalent of the Pathfinder or the Vestas. I've even seen a few straight up beg for the Scryer even, doughnut saucer and all.
Aside from that, we've been heading towards a path of commonality between new ships. First we got the Flagships (Odyssey and Bort share identical loadouts; different consoles), then the DSDs (identical consoles, but different loadouts), then the Command ships (identical loadouts, identical consoles, and identical mastery traits), and now the X-faction bundle (Fed/KDF share similar loadouts, all 3 share identical consoles and mastery traits).
On top of that, the Devs themselves said due to the popularity of bundles, they will be doing it more often. We've already seen one Fed and KDF Pilot ship; they're probably going to have the same general layout between them as well.
So sooner or later KDF will get their equivalents to Fed ships; just probably not in the manner they would want (T6 BoP being an oddball due to having no Fed or Rom equivalent; unless they release a T6 Aquarius to match and a new T6 Light Rom Escort).
So why does the federation need a battle cloaking raider when the KDF doesn't have a T6 raider as of yet? As far as I've seen it is only "hope" amongst the KDF community that the T6 "pilot" spec ship will be a BOP, I've not seen any official confirmation of this anywhere (if I've missed it please point me in the right direction). Feds got a bunch of cloaking intel ships with DR, KDF got a battle cloaking battle cruiser (why instead of a BOP intel ship I still do not understand) and one normal cloaking raptor. Neither roms nor KDF have gotten a real science ship to this day that is even close to the T5 Vesta, let alone an actual T6 science ship. Considering that feds do have multiple T6 ships now with integrated cloaks I see no more reason for excluding roms/KDF from having a real science ship each. Otherwise it seems to me you are just trolling the non-fed community in saying we have enough of everything and that cryptic should focus on your playable borg faction now...
So you've come to this thread to insult people who disagree with but otherwise say nothing. Noted, you have insulted me and said nothing, your mission is complete!
Okay, my mistake for getting drawn off topic like this, so I apologize, this will be the last time I address this point. Feds still don't have a battle cloak, so Battle Cloaking Raider is still unique to the KDF and Romulan Republic. Alot of other unique stuff, on both the Fed and KDF side, such as science vessels, carriers, universal bridge officer stations, and consoles, have become available to both factions. The homogenization runs both ways, you just see the Federation ******** about it less because the Klingons started with so much less overall.
However, in the context of THIS thread, we only need to decide whether access to tac-heavy science vessels at tier-6 are essential for faction completion. The general consensus is no.
Exactly.
I'm not even talking about finished because these factions will only be finished when Cryptic stops making money selling new shineys for them. As I tried to explain in my original post, I'm using the adjective form of complete, meaning they have all he necessary and appropriate parts. I'm trying to find out from players, some of them more thoughtful and intelligent than others, if the KDF are missing any essential components.
And as for how far they've come. I sorta feel like a rickety old man sitting on his rocking chair telling boring stories about how bad things used to be, while the younger generation get fired up over some perceived slight that doesn't even register in comparison.
The Federation doesn't. Please reread the section you quoted, and any of the responses I've already made about this topic, and then ask if you have any questions.
ahem.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.....-gasp of air- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
KDF finished...that's priceless, pure comedy gold.
How bout outside the fact of about 15 original missions for the KDF, it's a copy and paste of the Fed missions with a few cosmetic changes.
Add in the fact missing about 5 iconic bladed weapons for the KDF though somehow the NPCS can use them, Dahar Master coat etc.
Plus the ships. Feds have what 2-3 times the amount of ships the rest of the "Factions" do.
Also story. I mean come on. Cardassian arc and onwards devs could of written completely separate but concurrent stories that complimented eachother but no, just wrote one for the Feds then copy and pasted.
Sorry this is a bunch of BS. KDF finished? What a joke. Only side that is finished is the Feds, devs simply copy and paste for the other sides.
And don't even get me started on the garbage that is Romulans.
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seriously the PvP aspect of this game is not good which is the only selling point to even keep a KDF faction.
I say let them join the federation and move on with the story that way the klingons will get some love aswell oretty much it seems that everyone will join the federation someday.
And then on that day star trek will truely be over and the universe wil be under the federation flag :rolleyes:
Bring in some of the traditions and rituals. etc..
Age of Ascension/Rite of Passage
Challenge Rituals
Mauk-to 'Vor
Save your breath. I believe I hear "LALALALA I can't hear you" somewhere.
I'm sorry, I'm going to ignore your childish jabs at those three or four people in this very thread who disagree with you, and all of the other people out there, and simply give you a second chance to contribute.
Why do you think those things are necessary components to your faction? Keep in mind, I didn't ask you what would be needed for you to feel like the KDF faction is as big or supported as the Federation. I didn't ask for a wishlist of all the things you'd like to see. I asked what things would be necessary for you to feel like the KDF faction were complete and WHY they were essential for completion.
So no, please, don't get started on the Romulans, you haven't even started on the KDF yet.
I wouldn't say infeasible so much as very very unlikely. Cryptic's development is skewing away from faction unique content in favor of faction agnostic content. Most game developers do this actually, World of Must-Not-Be-Named will usually have two neutral zones for every faction specific zone in any new expansion they launch, just as an example.
And that's sad because "A separate story line that spans the game and makes me feel like a warrior of the Klingon Empire" is the one response that's been made that doesn't seem petty or childish.
How bout all the stuff that was left out of the KDF that was in the shows? Hmm plenty there they could throw in.
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There is no denying the KDF and Roms are lacking on the cosmetic side: ship choices, clothing, body modification, etc. It would seem that some of these things are being addressed - though probably not as thoroughly as some might like.
I doubt you will ever see ship parity. Every business has to justify man-hours versus ROI. If it takes 100 man-hours to make a ship Cryptic can get a 1% ROI or a 5% ROI they are going to choose the 5% almost every time.
Well lets be honest about this one, in the 49 years weve had the shows, how much stuff from them has actually been tossed into the game? and how much TRON and MASS EFFECT have we been receiving lately?
This whole thing boils down to whatever fancies the man behind the curtain and its been quite obvious what he fancies for the past 5 years.
I still don't understand the purpose.
Klingons had enough content to complete the game challenges BEFORE the revamp. You've arbitrarily decided that "complete" means "enough missions to level without doing patrol grinds" where someone else has arbitrarily decided that "complete" means "a science heavy ship for their science character".
Any discussion is going to be around "feels". You "feel" the KDF and Romulan space force are complete. Others "feel" they are not. Obviously, the format is going to be "here is a list of things that would improve/complete my gameplay experience in the KDF/Romulan space force". You already rejected that from a different poster.
To be fair, that's due to materials to work with (among other things, such as not really working with KDF ship designers as often as they do with Fed ship designers). As well, KDF also complained that they don't want KDF copies of Fed ships, so they got almost no ships instead. Except now, enough KDF have begged for any ship to match some of the Feds own, and Cryptic has been on a path towards releasing ships across all factions with shared stats, loadouts, mastery traits, or consoles.
An ship KDF (and Romulans) gets will inevitably be tied to a Fed one, except in rare cases such as the Intel ships (in which Feds get priority due to the self-sustaining circle of monetary stability).
On OP's topic proper: KDF, and Romulans as well, is "finished" if you're just going off the most barebones of checks.
Separate Faction at the start? Check.
Unique set of ships? Check.
Unique set of equipment? Check.
Unique set of customization? Check.
Unique story segment? Check.
Balanced within itself? Check.
All classes covered? Check.
Of course, that doesn't take into account the imbalance in ships, equipment, and other things when compared to the original faction.
Why do I feel they are necessary. Let me give you an Example. It's like having a star fleet uniform without any combadges.
Or missing a type of phaser. I mean devil is in the details. Lets face it progression wise the Feds have the easiest time because at EVERY tier they have a ship for each profession. KDF doesn't, and Roms sure as hell don't.
I mean we have the Dahar master, but no coat which was a big thing like getting a black belt in Karate. It's like "OK you're a black belt, but you're not getting the belt."
Say what?
And while the bat'leth is cool, how bout Gin'Tak Spear, or Mik'leth or any of the other blades many(including myself) have literally been telling PWE/Cryptic we want and we'd even shell out Zen to do it.
Or the fact up until the Dyson Destroyers came out the KDF didn't have a single decent science ship available. And even then it was here for an event then gone then you have to shell out Zen to get one.
I mean there are a whole HEAP of problems that have yet to be addressed and likely will not. So no, KDF faction let alone Romulan....eh promised not to go there sorry.
But lets face it. Yes everybody wants to be Picard, or Kirk, but for heaven's sake lets balance out the factions we have before there's even talk about adding yet another which will be likely to follow the romulans.
And hell how bout some different stories! Not just 1 and done for 3 factions.
I even made a post about how the devs missed a GOLDEN oppertunity to have 3 separate stories one for KDF, one for Fed one for ROM that each covered a portion of the delta story but would of tied together which would of made it FUN and you'd HAVE to do atleast 1 toon per story to get the whole thing.
Instead again 1 and done. And they are STILL doing it in the Iconian war. Quite sad, lazy and pathetic story writing.
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Now that's a little unfair, just because you've posted three times and been dismissed as not saying anything doesn't mean he won't contribute. Have faith in people, he atleast tried to address the original post, you're being ignored because you were too cool to even do that.
No, what I rejected from a different post was the omission of WHY he felt it was important. You know, the thing that I asked for in the original post you responded to.
I'm not sure how much more simple I can make this to be honest.
"Give me X" is bad.
"The KDF is incomplete without X because y" is good.
And by the way, I didn't arbitrarily pick that point, I subjectively picked that point based on reasoning that I provided. If you wish to subjectively pick a different point, that's fine, you would phrase it as
"The KDF is incomplete without more mission content because y" in this format.
How about HELL NO! I joined the KDf because I didn't want to be a part of the Federation any more. If you make the KDF a part of the Federation.... well you actually, just killed the game.
Thats one of the reason multiple faction games do well. I mean hell, look at Scarlet Blade.
Two factions. Still does well for itself. Because the Factions are balanced. This works for any multi-faction game. as long as the sides are equal to each other, you will have player bases as such. Give or take personal play preferences.
As someone else said, Romulans and KDf have like 15 stories all their own. After that its a copy/paste of the federation. This can be over looked simply by not paying any attention nor care to the storyline. Even with the new stuff coming out. Unless I can't just accept a mission to skip over the story, or esc a cutscene, I don't bother with it. Though I do wish they'd stop with the Kurkland popups. Those are just bloody annoying.
Also, I don't see the KDF being able to live up to Starfleet regulations. the federation is more bunny huggers. The KDF are more bunny killers. The two usually do not mix well.
*facepalm* And I should actually read post instead of just skimmingn them. You're last line puts up both in aggreement.
The KDF will lose some of those missions as well so likely it will be kept about the same anyways.
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Again that's just poor management. They've followed the path of Battlestar galactica online of "Everything equal with a different skin."
Instead of going with "Separate but equal."
But this is highly typical of the years I've been playing this game of one word. LAZINESS. Plain and simple the devs are pure LAZY.
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You forget there's a revamp coming for the Fek'ihri story arc. Just like the character revamps. Though, like always. They aren't atually saying when its coming.
Yeah I know the whole "tron" TRIBBLE was really in poor taste. Trust me if I headed up this game, well new content as in Iconian and on would come to a screeching halt and I'd redo a lot of missions to have a completely separate story line, but important to the story, much like SWTOR did.
If you want the whole story you literally have to play to ATLEAST the beginning of chapter 4 of every classes path.
If STO had done that from the beginning, more people would take more fun in replaying the stories and might even pump some more money into the game.
And for the Roms, oh god did they TRIBBLE the pooch IMHO. So much they could of done there.
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You subjectively picked that point based on reasoning that came from "feels". You "felt" grinding the same patrol was boring, yet doing missions (that you played as a Starfleet character) was not boring. Thus, the KDF is "complete", since you don't have to grind patrol missions to level.
Anything anyone posts here is going to be "I feel the KDF is missing x". Often, they will make a comparison to Starfleet content. Then you will tell them "you don't need it". So, again, where is the discussion?
Bold words from someone who likely hasn't worked in any sort of corporate culture. Devs aren't lazy, they do what they are told to do by their management. If that means art making three ships and systems being told to make all three of them the same, that's what gets done. If it doesn't get done, you get a bad eval and out the door you go, and they hire the next guy who got laid off when his shop was shut down by a publisher because they made the mistake of making a game not enough people bought - that's what lazy get you.
What you're calling laziness is actually the opposite - it's a company trying to push out things on tight deadlines and experimenting with ways to get things done faster. Sometimes those methods work, sometimes they don't.
I've seen a lot of evidence of incompetence (bugs that were fixed but come back the same as they were - that's a symptom of poor source control, plain and simple), but most of that isn't happening much anymore. Laziness, though? No, no evidence of that.
Yes actually I have worked some in a corporate culture. And yes I do know about deadlines and yadda yadda yadda.
Point is it IS laziness at some level when they could of just said "hey we're slowing down to offer up something new and different, please bear with us as we make changes."
How many times has that been done in gaming? Too many times to count. Headshed, devs whoever ya want to say took the easy way out. Simple pure laziness.
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