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The KDF aren't complete?
jermbot
Member Posts: 801 Arc User
Recently the priority one podcast has alluded to the possibility of a Borg faction. For those interested, they nixed the idea of a Borg lockbox ship because they are saving it for a possible Borg faction in the future, much the same way they used to nix Romulan ships and content in preparation for a Romulan faction. Obviously this revelation that a playable Borg faction is not only possible, but being planned around, brought out the usual interested fans who would very much like to Borg for Great Justice! And then a deja vu inducing flood of naysayers claiming it shouldn't happen because Cryptic hasn't finished the KDF or Romulan Republic.
Now, I've heard all of these complaints years ago, five years ago in fact, when people were talking about a Romulan Faction during the beta. And five years ago the complaints that the KDF were not complete made a lot more sense. Five years ago the Klingon faction had a huge hole in their leveling content that required grinding endless mobs without context in the Kahless Expanse and other mindless kill zones. Five years ago, the KDF had four ship choices at end game, and their bridge officer layouts were none too good. Five years ago, the KDF had no tier 2 cruisers, you had to grind through two tiers worth of BoP's if you wanted something sturdy.
But today the KDF feels like a complete faction to me. Now understand when I say complete I don't mean of equal size, that'll probably never happen, and I don't mean finished, that'll probably never happen either. When I say complete, I mean that I can't find any gaps in KDF play. I can't find any levels where the KDF, and only the KDF, needs to grind mobs or PVP to bridge a hole in content. I can't look over their ship roster and see a ship that needs to be added or a Klingon absolutely can't play in a certain way. Though, with the attempt to maintain faction identity limiting certain ship choices overall, that's more of a sticky situation. I can't purchase all of their clothing options because I don't want to spend that much money on clothes.
So, I guess my question would be, if you don't think the KDF is complete, why and what would it take to make them complete for you?
Edit:
And just to clarify. Please make sure you are mentioning things that are needed to make your faction complete, and not just listing things you'd like to see or individual pet peeves. There is a place for things you would like to see, and there is a place for pet peeves. It's other threads.
Now, I've heard all of these complaints years ago, five years ago in fact, when people were talking about a Romulan Faction during the beta. And five years ago the complaints that the KDF were not complete made a lot more sense. Five years ago the Klingon faction had a huge hole in their leveling content that required grinding endless mobs without context in the Kahless Expanse and other mindless kill zones. Five years ago, the KDF had four ship choices at end game, and their bridge officer layouts were none too good. Five years ago, the KDF had no tier 2 cruisers, you had to grind through two tiers worth of BoP's if you wanted something sturdy.
But today the KDF feels like a complete faction to me. Now understand when I say complete I don't mean of equal size, that'll probably never happen, and I don't mean finished, that'll probably never happen either. When I say complete, I mean that I can't find any gaps in KDF play. I can't find any levels where the KDF, and only the KDF, needs to grind mobs or PVP to bridge a hole in content. I can't look over their ship roster and see a ship that needs to be added or a Klingon absolutely can't play in a certain way. Though, with the attempt to maintain faction identity limiting certain ship choices overall, that's more of a sticky situation. I can't purchase all of their clothing options because I don't want to spend that much money on clothes.
So, I guess my question would be, if you don't think the KDF is complete, why and what would it take to make them complete for you?
Edit:
And just to clarify. Please make sure you are mentioning things that are needed to make your faction complete, and not just listing things you'd like to see or individual pet peeves. There is a place for things you would like to see, and there is a place for pet peeves. It's other threads.
Post edited by jermbot on
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The kdf is the worst faction in any mmo I have seen but I play it because like Star Trek and the Feds are not Star Trek Feds. They are sociopaths.
But playing as a kdf I can pretend that the Feds are Star Trek Feds.
That being said, the kdf need a few things.
1) more good ships. No carrier in 4 years? The bortasq was a bad ship. The t6 bop wasn't the first ship you Madeira t6?
2) the ability to just punch another Klingon walking around qu'nos. all Klingons do that. It seems to be a part of the culture. Can't have a bar fight? Has cryptic ever seen an episode of Star Trek? Every single time you see a bar there is some sort of fight.
Other than that, nothing. After 5 years of neglect if cryptic took that trillion dollars and put it into the kdf faction it would not prop it up at this time.
Thank goodness other games that are solely ip based with one faction didn't just arbitrarily give up on the other factions when they released the game.
"In a mirror, darkly" eh^^
As for the OP, KDF is pretty much finished. There will always be people who say a faction needs more ships (which is not necessarily wrong), but the KDF has already enough for every Level. Everything else would be bonus.
Except decent science ships. Those we don't have. And on that, its not like the KDF and Romulans are asking for much. Just a level 40 freebie science ship, and a T6 science ship.
And how about some Klingon and Romulan formal clothing. Kinda weird being KDF and clicking to use these and the Federation Tux/Dress is the only option.
*looks at his nonexistent dahar master coat, targ, t6 bop, t6 kdf sci ship and t6 kdf carrier, *
Can I have whatever it is your smoking?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
They're supposedly giving us the T6 BoP.
What needs to be happen is for all the copied over content to be deleted and KDF given a complete and unique full story progression of their own.
The ONLY thing KDF and Feds should share are the old feature episode stories, Delta Rising and Iconian war episodes.
I'm not counting it tell we have it. Cryptic has... a questionable history when it comes to actually giving kdf ships when they say they will.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Tier 5 / 6 full on "offensive" Science.
I'm talking science capabilities like the Vesta and Pathfinder provide... Not the "defensive" engineering-oriented builds that the Varanus (DSSV clone) and Carriers provide...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Costume? Not needed. BoP? Seems like its coming, but BoPs dont mix too well in the current PvE-meta. Sci... Already said, Carrier? ok Carrier would be nice, if its better than the Karfi.
You really want to spent much time traveling between systems? KDFs level currently on low level half as fast than FED, even less compared to Roms. And I doubt adding new episodes would change something about that.
Vulcan, big brained sci guys from the big smarter then everyone else faction.
Time travel = impossible
Klingon, big dumb warrior guy whose scientists get no respect.
Time travel impossible = challenge accepted.
Then they make the first actual time travel device. And make it so it fits in a shuttles. ask janeway she stole it. So who should have sci ships again. Actually forget sci ship all kdf ship should'be time ships too :P
Now excuse me I must sleep.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Not to mention that Fed ships need to you know come with and "Aflack" sound. Oh look there goes a space duck... err I mean Federation ship.
-Many more customization options (Klingons still have to make do with the original (ie. 1, 6, aged) facial options)
-Unique, more klingon-y ground weapons (similar to the romulan plasma set)
-One or two more species (which are generally accessible to both captains and as boffs/doffs.)
-A Fel'Khir series revamp (plus one of the two unashamedly filler low-level missions.)
-A Qo'nos revamp
In other words not much (you could bang this out in S11 and still launch a new faction with Expansion 3.) There's not an inevitable conflict between the two ideas (they're at different scales) but before Cryptic launches into the expensive operation of making a fourth viable playable option there's still more to potential to get out of the existing ones.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I'll accept that as a ship you "need" the second people decide the Federation needs a battle cloaking raider. The standard has already been set that a faction can be complete without access to every type of ship. It gives the factions a small bit of uniqueness that. Thus the disclaiming sentence you left off about how sticky this kind of discussion gets when faction identity needs to be maintained.
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And I blame myself for the fact that I have only gotten a single discussion opening answer to my question. I really should have been more clear.
If you're asking for something in this thread, it's because you believe your faction is incomplete without it, not because you simply want it and not because it's being developed too slowly for you.
T6 ships is not a valid response because they are still being added to the game. Cryptic has not declared that they are done with T6 ships, nor have they given any indication that they are slowing production on T6 ships and no faction, even the Federation, has enough T6 options yet.
As such, I'll amend the original post to represent this, but if you could add to your response the reason you believe your faction is incomplete without your requested content, rather than just treating this thread like a letter you're writing to Santa, it would facilitate actual discussion.
They revamped the apparently already revamped ESD after featuring it in an episode. :rolleyes:
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
nuqneH Klingons!
The following is on the character art side of things but we thought it big enough news to put here in the GD thread...
Weʼre excited to say there is a gradual but fairly good sized revamp in the works to the Klingon faction (both for players and NPCs) to make them look tougher, more realistic, and cooler trying to capture more the essence of the shows.
In fact, due to a recent check-in bug, some of these changes are going in even sooner than we intended! (mainly updates to male boots)
Anyway, as youve probably noticed, many of our older Klingon armor pieces are a bit cartoonish and/or oddly shaped, gravity-defying, and often over-sized. This was an attempt to make the Klingons look bulkier as they do in the shows. The problem is the underlying body in STO is/was usually still skinny to average in size. So the end result often looks like a skinny kid wearing oversized foam costume armor and an old man mask
Rest assured, we have no intention of limiting the body scaling - so you can make just as wide a range of body types as you can now. But we want to make the default, starting Klingon body type bulkier, stronger and more natural and proportionate. Additionally, we plan on a similar treatment with other species/genders as appropriate, like Orion males.
Then, with a better base body, adjustments will be made to the armor components to give a better fit.
Next, and possibly most exciting to many players, will be to include a sheathed Dk Tahg (Klingon Dagger), fingerless gloves, and a starting rank 0 sash (leather strap) as optional starting gear for Klingon faction.
Visuals to help illustrate: http://imgur.com/bpgiA71
As I said, the updates will eventually affect the NPCs and enemy groups as well. A rough mock-up of the general direction (note: this isnt the final pass, the armor is not refitted and/or necessarily the final combination, and the group will have more color variance):
http: //imgur.com/2EeUnQ2
And yes, female KDF will get a pass too.
Sooo....while we donʼt intend to do before/after shots for each and every asset, the boots already show subtle but marked improvement. For the most part the feet are a more unified and proportionate size to the rest of the body. Many of the boots are generally taller, usually over the knee, which is more directly influenced from the actual costumes on the series. And many boots got a shape massage and an extra embellishment here and there. Before and after here:
http: //imgur.com/lQXxy0I
Finally, long term goals will be to possibly add and/or unlock more hairstyles.
Final, final note this is a big undertaking that is getting addressed little by little between many of our other tasks. There isnt a set date for it to go out, and it wont happen soon, but theres also a chance little bits will trickle in (or in big chunks as has happened w/ male boots ). Were posting here to share our plans and receive feedback early.
Thanks and hope youre as excited about this as we are!
Please don't say you don't know that maps can be reused and relocated to different game nodes.
They could make a hundred ep's with that maze of a city and still have it NOT be the KDF base city.
The ground PvE que is a damn good reason to revamp it actually. I mean you usually rebuild a city after a war.
Ok, I have to hand it to you. That was pretty hilarious.
What "discussion" is there to be had? Your position is "KDF has enough content to do the content". KDF players say "more variety is required for the faction to be complete". Your response is "variety is irrelevant".
So what are you looking for in a discussion? People to agree with you that players should stop asking for content for their faction so Cryptic can work on a possible "Liberated Borg" faction?
Again, you have our cloak, it's on the Defiant. Which is one thing I stress about this. The KDF and Romulans are not asking for ANYTHING that the Federation has. Nothing, not a damn thing do we want from the Federation. Well, I take that back, we do wish one thing from the Feds, and that's just to, you know, get completely obliterated(might just be my own wishful thinking here).
But as far as ships, revamps, and such. Name one thing that we're asking for that is specifically the Federations? Besides, you can keep you ships. The KDF and Romulans wouldn't be caught dead in your Space Ducks.
Your races you can keep those. You already have Federation Klingon Captain's in the C-Store. You have Andorians, with the same warrior society that the KDF have. Which kinda makes me wonder why they are a part of the Federation to begin with.
Your clothes, yeah you can keep those to. Though as I said, a Formal set that isn't the same as the feds would be nice though it isn't really needed. Though the Dahar master coat is. Wouldn't mind seeing a T6 Sash added as well.
As far as a T6 ship goes. Give us a retrofit of a T5. Preferably from Orions, Gorn, Naussicans, or Letheans. That's why I enjoy the KDF. The ships aren't the same design over and over. Well the Klingons are, but ehh. But our ships are from our races. Not "your ships can only look like everyone elses ship, and it has to be a Space Duck".
Seriously another one of these I WANT BORG NAOW THREADS EFF THE KDF AND ROMULANS...
that's what this is in a nutshell, you , the OP, is trying to sway a topic into your favor by suggesting to everyone that the KDF and Romulans are complete and don't need anything else to give purpose for a BORG faction, let me tell you something, IT AINT HAPPENING
dunno why people insist on wanting to play a faction that has no real purpose or life except to be Janeways silly excuse for a badguy.
Also, no need to post a thread from Reddit, when the post was made right here and stickied about how the KDF will be seeing some love..
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1445201
The KDF and Romulans have a long way to go before they are Complete on the same scale as the Federation,
KDF has a very marginal choice of costumes
Limited selection of ships, yep I said it, when you have very few t6 ships on any front, its auto limited
Hair, 90% of the kdf hair allowed, was never showed in the series /shrug
Story, a lot of the earlier stuff needs work still, and until you can do on avg of 10 missions per rank leve that is directly kdf related I don't see it complete
Revamp First City, why, tbh the current version is horrid and having to run all over the place including beaming up to do anything is silly, its been blown up, rubbbled, and blood spilled, time for a new one, why? Because I just ran that mission and now im back in first city like nothing ever happened, time paradox?
Dunno why so many other games are capable of doing multiple factions just fine but here its a never ending struggle for equality.
*removed some stuff from the original version of this to save me from prosecution
So you have an opinion, and that is a beautiful special thing that nobody can ever take from you. Cherish that you have this opinion because it is a gift.
But rather than shouting that opinion out into the void, maybe try to distinguish yourself by basing your opinion on something, and making an argument in favor of your opinion based on that. There is this chance that incredible things may occur. For instance, those who agree with your opinion may gain greater esteem for you from the expert way you have phrased their thoughts, or those who disagree with your opinion may gain an understand your point of view and could conceivably agree with you.
Or not, I mean, all of this is dependent on you being able to communicate reasonably well, and if your attempts at argumentation are as masterful as your attempts at humor, probably no good will come of you saying more.
First off, the Defiant doesn't battle cloak so it doesn't qualify as a battle cloaking light raider. Secondly, I don't have a Defiant and you don't own a cloaking device. Tune down the outrage and try to get some perspective.
Do you think the Federation has a freebie science ship and a T6 science ship? Because YOU specifically, not the KDF and Romulans that you pretend to speak for, but YOU as an individual in this very thread asked for something the Federation has.
And the person that I was actually talking to, the one who seems smarter than you, asked for Federation equivalents by name.
The rest of your post was off topic to the thread and off topic to the post you were responding to. As such, I have no interest in continuing to speak with you.
I, as the OP, am merely trying to get some insight from the more thoughtful players about why they might beleive the KDF to be an incomplete faction and what would need to be done about it, as is laid out clearly in the Original Post and Title. Your paranoid speculation about my 'hidden agenda' or your opinions about the already referenced future Borg faction are of no interest to me, and of no use to this thread.
Okay, to clear up confusion.
I expect responses to follow this approximate format. "For the KDF to be a whole faction they need X. X is essential for KDF completion for the following reasons."
And then what we would discuss would be why X, which could be anything from Dahar Master Robes to a Tier 4 free science vessel are essential for KDF completion.
The Federation thats why.
The View Point right now on new stuff.
Federation gets new stuff.
Feds - "YAY! New Stuff."
KDF - "Meh, whatever."
Romulans - "Now how can we steal it."
KDF asks for new stuff, not even getting, just asking for it.
Feds - "No you shall not have it, because we aren't getting it to."
KDF - "We're just asking for it."
Romulans - "Thats a good idea."
Romulans asking for new stuff, not getting it, just asking for it.
Feds - "No you shall not have it, because we aren't getting it to."
KDF - "You need it. So why not."
Romulans - "We're just asking for it. Its not like we're trying to steal it or anything."
And this is the majority of what I've seen on any posts where the KDF and Romulans have asked for anything.
The thing you somehow don't get, is that it has all been said before. Ad nauseum. I've said it. I've made threads. Contributed to others. People say it in this very thread. But you're acting like it's either irrelevant or nonexistent. I seriously thought you were trolling, since the OP is delusional, at best.
It is easy to say that since the years of Fed whining in the years past is long-since over, and many of the best KDF 'toys' have been ported over.
Carriers
Raiders
Uni consoles
More cloaking ships
Possibly other stuff I'm forgetting
Technically yes, there's only one actual Fed 'raider', two if you count the Fleet version, not including any lockbox ships, or zero if you don't consider that an actual 'raider'.
But there are plenty of Fed carriers, and even ships with one hangar that are FAR superior to most anything the KDF has.
The uni consoles, things like Aceton Assimilator, Plasmonic Leech, and many others were constantly wanted for years until they were finally stuffed in a lockbox...after that, all the Fed complaints suddenly 'went away' miraculously, because now they had them.
Excluding lockbox ships, Feds have gotten more ships that can either use the cloak console, or have integrated cloak now. Plus you can sorta-get battle cloaking by playing a Rom, albeit of course you aren't a 'pure-Fed' by doing so, but you can technically get them that way.
If what you say is true, then I'd gladly accept not getting a new science ship, because we don't 'need' one, IF we in turn actually got new ships that AREN'T battlecruisers.
BUT...your reasoning, while I actually do agree with it, simply doesn't work, because as I mentioned above, Feds DO have all that stuff that used to be ONLY for the KDF. None of it was EVER 'needed', but it was whined for and gotten eventually.
In other words, your reasoning doesn't hold much weight anymore because many of the 'unique' features that the KDF once had are on the Fed side now, so I see zero point in preventing the KDF from getting a good sci ship because of that.
Don't forget. They're still after the Orions. Can't forget that.
Guess you haven't played feds since the revamping, but I did a fed for the delta thing recently and let me tell you, its complete minus an overhaul of the cardassian struggle
Given that ship sales are the thing that keeps the lights on, making ships for a market of 73% of potential customers is going to be more lucrative than making ones for a potential 16% (or 11%) of them, no matter how you cut it - so that's what happens. Throw in the lockbox ships that reach 100% of potential buyers and can be used by the minorities, and the appeal of spending expensive and limited art budget on them is pretty low.
So you end up with a chicken and egg thing - there aren't nearly as many KDF players, so making new ships for them will simply not make as much money as making them for the Feds, but not having as many ships makes the KDF less appealing so it doesn't attract as many players.
You do need to give Cryptic some credit for trying. Both the KDF and Rom story missions are better than the Feds. They have interesting and different playstyles that should attract new players. However, none of that seems to really be able to draw new players to them.