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Let's clear up one giant misconception about PvP and nerfing

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  • johndroidjohndroid Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    Every time PvP is brought up here, people like to claim that all PvP does it get things nerfed, and all PvPers want is to have everything nerfed.

    Guess what? That's totally and completely false.

    You know that FAW you love to use? Remember when it was useless the first time? Or the second time? Or broken the third time they fixed it?

    Who do you think brought the fact that it was A) useless B) broken up to the Devs?

    I'll give you a clue; it's not the people asking for new costume design choices.

    Yes, PvPers do ask for things to be nerfed. Why? Because there really shouldn't be horribly OP things in the game. Does it make sense that you can get strings of 50k+ Crits on NPCs with Beam Arrays, while they sit there utterly defenseless and unable to move because you hit them with Ionic Turbulence? Where's the challenge in that?

    Now, here is a short list of things that I can think of, off the top of my head, that PvP has gotten BUFFED. Yes, buffed. As in, boosted, or changed for the betterment of everyone.
    • FAW
    • Beam Overload
    • Torpedo Spread
    • Boarding Party (still a joke, though)
    • Gravity Well
    • Charged Particle Burst
    • Tachyon Beam (In case this was confusing, I'm talking about in the past, when it was buffed along with CPB. Not this past buff, where it was done to boost Command sales)
    • Tetryon and Polaron Procs
    • EPtW/A/E
    • Stun/Scramble Immunities
    • Targetting QoL improvements (screens aren't cluttered with mine/fighter spam)
    • Feedback Pulse

    And that's not even everything, that's just a short list.

    Here's some things that @jarvisandalfred suggested I bring up that people feel PvP HAS gotten nerfed, and why they were.
    • Surgical Strikes: Literally strings of 50k+ hits off of Beam Arrays, the second lowest (base) damage weapon in the game. And the Devs themselves were the ones who tested it and deemed, by their own metrics, that it was OP. Now, you can argue that you "need" it in PvE... but that's not the fault of PvPers or PvP; that's the FAW-centric game design that led to massive NPC HPs.
    • Ionic Turbulence: It still disables. It still has a -Res to it. It can just now be resisted, so you can't chain it with PSW/Viral Torp/IT. Also, it's not an "instant hit" anymore, it travels to it's target... just like Scramble Sensors, and torpedoes. Just as it should have from the start.
    • Viral Torp: It still does it's disable thing. It's just been changed so now the Immunity Resistance hard counter actually applies to it.
    • Beam Overload: Well, it was actually buffed... especially since everyone is PvE is stacking on massive levels of CrtD and BO now has a 100% CrtH.
    • PSW: Still does the same damage. Still stuns. Just can't be chained anymore.
    • CSV: Throw back example from way back when. I mean like June 2010 or thereabouts, for the sake of an example. CSV was bugged to give a +70% damage modifier (instead of it's intended +25%). When it was fixed, people blamed PvP.


    Okay lets see , someone with 300 graviton generators and there Tractorbeam repulsers and fbp kill people without firing a shot thats broke ....

    the beam overload for 58k hitting is broke and op ... don't remember our ships getting more hull or shields. so more dmg is dumb .... with all low hulled ships

    The disable build on intel ship can black out all tray abilities for 15 seconds and can use no skill or ability or console to do anything about it ..... broke as well .....

    Look at pvp queue's getting worse everyday and you think its better with broke skills and skill tree and console stacking only a few skills to 300 ?

    Even Tactical and Engineer toons are maxing out Science skills because there own tac/eng/ skills do nothing in game for power or actual defense ....

    So if people are doing One-shot kills or 100% disables or Tractor repulsers for 4 seconds and dead what good is armor skill tree and gear and rep do for anyone ???

    Theres is like 5 pvp players in Queues almost allay long with thousands of players on ... pvp is dead ... really all thats left is 1 tiny lil itty bitty pvp zone left called Kerrat thats it and thats almost completely dead ..... all the players there almost all agreed its dead.

    Now for the problem they were to fix 1 stf that was Azure nebula all the rest suck because they said they were going to fix them all after Azure nebula one at a time ... still haven't fixed it and it looks grotesque !!

    As for fixing Stf's all they did to compensate all there broken over the top powerful pvp skills that are insanely powerful plus all the epic elite geared people ..... was to max out the hit points on all there enemy's in Stf's !! to about 2 to 6 million hit points insanely overboard !!

    Thats there major fix the secrets out !! and it didn't fix anything but not letting people do an stf fast or be able to power grind fast in any Stf .... its all designed to slow or have insane enemy hit points is all ...they hardly fix anything but new content these days or ship skins ....

    Now that is why Pvp is dying its all made for Stf's these days and not Pvp so the insane enemys strengths can endure the time while all pvp player have lower hit points and all pvp die fast or not at all ..... or super easy deaths ... so all pvp is overpowered its all setup with stf's powers and strengths ... when real fighting in pvp combat with real people in real ships try to fight with Stf design to game its IMMPOSSIBLE ... Nuff said.

    yea my typing may need work but rationality of common sense is sound.
  • johndroidjohndroid Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    Aw, it got moved.

    The whole point of keeping it in the General Discussion was because this whole thread is addressed to the general population.

    Everyone in the PvP section here already knows all of this stuff.

    I was going to Kerrat with 5 Kdf people and all of us could not for and hour get more than 2 of us in same instance , while in you can't change any instance never but the window for it opens ... go figure

    They stated a season or so ago that all the programmers that made Kerrat were either fired or gone or moved on the way better jobs :)

    That they actually didn't know how and couldn't fix the 1 last true pvp zone... Kerrat .. this means they cant fix Pvp at all or never create another pvp arena or Warzone ewer they admitted it and they will do nothing for Pvp or its zones its mostly for end gamers that are at there end until Pvp dies 100% bye Pvp
  • blessedladyboyblessedladyboy Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Small note...Bo was actually nerfed with the change to autocrit as overall damage was reduced considerably. Ruined vapers at the time.
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited April 2015
    Freaking PvE's.... always ruined it all with their whaaaaambulance.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Small note...Bo was actually nerfed with the change to autocrit as overall damage was reduced considerably. Ruined vapers at the time.

    BO3 went from ~8.5x to ~6.4x to ~5.5x with those July/August changes last year.

    If they were using their "reasonable amounts" back then, then they were looking at 15% CrtH and 200% CrtD.

    Outside of other Bonus boosts then, they were looking at...

    Before-BO3: 8.5 * (1 + (0.15 * 2.0)) = 11.05
    After-BO3: 5.5 * (1 + (1 * 2)) = 16.5

    Which is what they would have meant by...
    Its damage will be higher on average due to 100% Critical chance.

    ...but it also killed the potential cause of the previous range using their "reasonable amounts" bit.

    8.5 <---> 25.5 became 16.5 where the average would have been 11.05

    Again, just looking at those specifics and assuming their numbers for it.

    It was part of a powers rebalance thing Hawk had been looking at with BO/FAW and so forth: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18307971#post18307971

    That's probably why he got run out of town...all the FAW, man I want to make the joke there with kers added to it - but the CM/mod mood's not been the best of late. ;)

    But yeah, left the way it is - having added in Surgical - BO's yeah...not.

    edit: Case anybody missed what I'm saying there...

    PvP got nerfed cause of PvE. :P
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    deokkent wrote: »
    LoL I was just wondering how many PvErs submitted tickets to get this thread moderated. Fun times.

    Jokes on them at this point.

    Now with all but 10-20 die hards left in the game... its clear things get "nerfed" when Cryptic has a new item to sell.

    Somehow some of them still want to blame PvPers... shows the critical thinking engines are solidly in the off position for some folk.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    BO3 went from ~8.5x to ~6.4x to ~5.5x with those July/August changes last year.

    If they were using their "reasonable amounts" back then, then they were looking at 15% CrtH and 200% CrtD.

    Outside of other Bonus boosts then, they were looking at...

    Before-BO3: 8.5 * (1 + (0.15 * 2.0)) = 11.05
    After-BO3: 5.5 * (1 + (1 * 2)) = 16.5

    Which is what they would have meant by...



    ...but it also killed the potential cause of the previous range using their "reasonable amounts" bit.

    8.5 <---> 25.5 became 16.5 where the average would have been 11.05

    Again, just looking at those specifics and assuming their numbers for it.

    It was part of a powers rebalance thing Hawk had been looking at with BO/FAW and so forth: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=18307971#post18307971

    That's probably why he got run out of town...all the FAW, man I want to make the joke there with kers added to it - but the CM/mod mood's not been the best of late. ;)

    But yeah, left the way it is - having added in Surgical - BO's yeah...not.

    edit: Case anybody missed what I'm saying there...

    PvP got nerfed cause of PvE. :P


    I just want to say that guy was ridiculous and wrong minded, and simply drove a function that was working perfectly as designed with the Hit/Miss two roll system as designed in STO and totally ignored all the magic consoles that are allowed to complete bypass that system, take effect 100% of the time, and are the bread and butter of 99.9% of the Rommie Vapers.

    I'm not bitter.:P
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thissler wrote: »
    I'm not bitter.:P

    Well, good, as long as you're not bitter. :)

    Me...I'm pretty damn bitter. Not about that, mind you, that's barely a speck of ink in the footnote of why I'm bitter. But it's all good...I guess. Years of /facepalms about things have had the odd effect of things not affecting me as much as they did...go figure. Maybe some of the /facepalms were a wee bit too hard. ;)
  • sysil84sysil84 Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thissler wrote: »
    I just want to say that guy was ridiculous and wrong minded, and simply drove a function that was working perfectly as designed with the Hit/Miss two roll system as designed in STO and totally ignored all the magic consoles that are allowed to complete bypass that system, take effect 100% of the time, and are the bread and butter of 99.9% of the Rommie Vapers.

    I'm not bitter.:P

    You don't understand.

    Metrics said PvE'ers were not using the skill, so clearly it needed a boost.

    Metrics don't measure Vapers, balance, PvP, good sense or bitterness.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    So yeah, the new Lock Box blog, and yeah...with that BO discussion and all...
    Finishing the Starship Mastery path on the Xindi-Primate Ateleth Dreadnought Cruiser [T6] will grant captains access to the following Starship Trait:

    Superweapon Ingenuity

    Grants a free Beam Overload I Mode any time another rank of Beam Overload is activated.
    Can only occur once per 30 sec
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Wait,

    first, they remove double tab, now they bring it back and monetize it. lol?

    Or do I misinterpret?
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ilhansk wrote: »
    Wait,

    first, they remove double tab, now they bring it back and monetize it. lol?

    Check out all the fun stuff there: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9196243-xindi-terrestrial-lock-box

    Too much fun to quote it all! ;)
  • tmghost999tmghost999 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ilhansk wrote: »
    Wait,

    first, they remove double tab, now they bring it back and monetize it. lol?

    Or do I misinterpret?

    Nope, u got it... :P

    See ya'll in GTA V :cool:
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    ilhansk wrote: »
    Wait,

    first, they remove double tab, now they bring it back and monetize it. lol?

    Or do I misinterpret?

    It's the dumbest idea ever, but hey, devs don't think new toys over. They just create them and let chaos reign.

    Hell, I still get killed by SS3 combined with other junk which usually involves BO. Now they just made it way to easy.
  • sysil84sysil84 Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Check out all the fun stuff there: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9196243-xindi-terrestrial-lock-box

    Too much fun to quote it all! ;)

    Before DR I would have been outraged. Right after I would have been sad.

    Now I can't stop laughing.
  • edited April 2015
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Kind of makes sense why [Pla] was changed the way it was with the Plasmatic stuff coming.
  • the4monkeysthe4monkeys Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Did anyone notice when you had 125 in engines it boosted the damage to [PLA]?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited April 2015
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  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    You know, all of this ire could be fixed if a complete revamp of the combat system could be completed. That way, PvE mob SP/HP wouldn't be so out of control, and PvP wouldn't be so horribly patchworked into disorganized chaos and left to the players to <sort out/exploit the hell out of/cry about> (pick two) the mechanics.

    But hey, I'm the n00blette flying a torpedo starship and dubbed my ship's role as Kinetic Heavy Fire Support.... and Cryptic copies said concept months later, waters it down, and names it, "Call Emergency Artillery", then tells everyone it's great! It's worse than transport warhead, and arguably in a tie with Demo Team for the worst implementation of a concept in STO's history.

    /golfclap
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
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