"raging griefers" are exactly the kind of players I like to destroy not mindless Borg drones.
While I don't think it would work in STO, there are several games where something along those lines has taken place. Heh, even going back to UO with the PKs and PKKs. There were the folks that hunted the masses and those that hunted the hunters. It even ended up with situations where the PKKs would patrol the areas where the PKs might strike...so in many cases the PKs and PKKs would be the groups fighting. Only if the PKs got by the PKKs would they get at the masses. Sometimes, the PKs would get their first but then the PKKs would sweep in exacting swift vengeance. It actually gets into a symbiotic relationship in some games...
...however, in other games - well, it does end up just being PKs striking at the masses while avoiding each other. You'll have these guys killing folks over here and these guys killing folks over there.
With the way gaming society has changed in the past 5-10 years, I'd lean more toward the latter happening than the former...cause well, yeah, people.
Thus far he/she's ignored 2 people that have pointed this out to him/her in this thread alone. Others have mentioned this many times over and over in other threads especially the one that discussed this nerf specifically. Why do you think you will fare any better?
Shhh, I'm waiting for the reply...so I can talk about how they're an Engineer - and - if they want to scapegoat somebody for the Surgical Strikes changes, maybe they should go after Tac Captains. Then if they were to stop to think about many of the changes, including the increase in difficulty, how they could probably point to Tac Captains as well. :P
So much this! If it isn't the fault of PvPers it's the DPS people who are at fault. Honestly I think we should all blame Doffers. Are they really even playing the game?
But really, I play plenty of other mmos and things get nerfed, changed, boosted, taken out, obsoleted, brought back in. Things change with the game; at least they're supposed to. Nothing would change on the nerf front if they removed pvp. The devs will still find things to be under and over performing. The only thing that will change will be who gets blamed.
In the end, it's about rewards...little else. Like all the folks clamoring about how awesome the changes to Advanced Queues will be for folks...ignoring that it's a massive nerf to rewards. The forums will go on as they go on...entertaining.
Thus far he/she's ignored 2 people that have pointed this out to him/her in this thread alone. Others have mentioned this many times over and over in other threads especially the one that discussed this nerf specifically. Why do you think you will fare any better?
Let me turn this around. If Bort, the Dev responsible for PvP, in fact nerfed SS3 because of PvP whines, do you think he'd tell us about it in public?!
More to the point, though, as I asked the OP repeatedly, are the PvP-ers now hiding behind an official post Bort made, so as to claim they had nothing to do with the nerfing? I mean, has it really come down to that?! For months on end the PvP community had been screaming for a nerf to SS3; and now, suddenly, y'all pretending you had nothing to do with it?! How lame is that!? If you got something nerfed, at least have the guts to say you did! Like the OP did, actually, in his start-post, when he flat-out admitted PvP-ers got Surgical Strikes nerfed. That, at least, was manly. This weak denial, otoh, is downright pathetic.
and that sums up well why so many people dislike pvpers.
Lol, i was joking ofc , but tell me, i'm curious why you should dislike a part of the playerbase that use to test new stuff introduced by the devs and find bugs about to be fixed ?
and that sums up well why so many people dislike pvpers.
people dislike PvPers because... well I don't freaking know. That's a myth somebody will have to tell me because in no way the PvP community actually gave a single TRIBBLE about PvErs ever, I don't see why PvErs have to complain that much.
Meh, PvErs are simply... envious? can't find the right word. Basically veteran PvPers know every bit of game mechanics, things like counters, healing, attacking, coordination, team communication, ship building that goes beyond PvErs world of moar DPS needed!!!1111!. PvErs do not have the experience to say what's good and what's bad because the only thing they now is damage, more damage, even more damage, ludicrous damage. Healers? That's an unknown word for them.
The guy who kept saying SS3 nerf was unnecessary even after a Dev told him twice it was overpowered since the beginning is the confirmation.
that must have been a LONG TIME AGO. possibly in a Galaxy far, far, away.
you know, or in a mirror universe where PvP'ers actually exist in sufficient numbers that their removal "Wouldn't impact the game' (Per Geko's statements).
maybe in 2010 or so?
Considering Smirk's Contortrix back in the days, he was running boarding party, a torpedo, mixed beams and cannons with zero synergy between boff powers. I guess the vast majority of the guys at cryptic has no idea of how to build a zero-budget ship lol.
Let me turn this around. If Bort, the Dev responsible for PvP, in fact nerfed SS3 because of PvP whines, do you think he'd tell us about it in public?!
More to the point, though, as I asked the OP repeatedly, are the PvP-ers now hiding behind an official post Bort made, so as to claim they had nothing to do with the nerfing? I mean, has it really come down to that?! For months on end the PvP community had been screaming for a nerf to SS3; and now, suddenly, y'all pretending you had nothing to do with it?! How lame is that!? If you got something nerfed, at least have the guts to say you did! Like the OP did, actually, in his start-post, when he flat-out admitted PvP-ers got Surgical Strikes nerfed. That, at least, was manly. This weak denial, otoh, is downright pathetic.
here's the damned answer. Official. SS3 was officially broken. Broken enough there was no reason to run fire at will, cannon rapid fire and cannon scatter volley. If it wasn't for PvPers, it would have never been fixed. All the rest of your post is senseless conjecture that may prove good for Illuminati conspiracy theories.
PvPers noticed it was broken because NPC, the PvErs targets, can't speak!. How the hell are you supposed to say a word when all you can do is point guns to a hitpoint bag?
here's the damned answer. Official. SS3 was officially broken. Broken enough there was no reason to run fire at will, cannon rapid fire and cannon scatter volley. If it wasn't for PvPers, it would have never been fixed. All the rest of your post is senseless conjecture that may prove good for Illuminati conspiracy theories.
No real reason to run BFAW, eh? Lolz. No DPS League record was ever broken using Surgical Strikes: that makes me 10x more right than all your usual drivel put together.
PvP is the convenient excuse. That is all it is as far as this forum is concerned.
It get's the blame for things getting nerfed, for blatantly overpowered things to turn up in a new season...about the only time the masses speak favourably of it is when it supports their own argument, which ironically most of the time has something to do with a nerf.
Thing is this argument is always pointless. Cryptic listen to Cryptic and no-one else. A PvP whine thread has just as much a chance of changing a devs mind as a PvE whine thread.
No real reason to run BFAW, eh? Lolz. No DPS League record was ever broken using Surgical Strikes: that makes me 10x more right than all your usual drivel put together.
DPS League? You mean how fast you kill hitpoint bags? God that must be a real accomplishment. Wow.
Have a look at this, a series of matches I took part in the last year from another participant's point of view. That was balanced. Not oneshot abilities like the old SS3 thing was.
Or even older this. Which happens to be my all time favorite match. (ps. I'm one of the Scimitars).
Bort is not responsible for PvP. There is no PvP Dev. Hell, there's no PvP Advocate - there's nobody there harassing everybody else on everything they're doing about how it will affect PvP. Doesn't mean that Bort or the other System guys 100% ignore PvP, but it's a PvE game and everybody knows that. There's not even a handful of them with a heinous production schedule, so they're going to miss things and even things players point out might not get fixed until the schedule allows them to get fixed. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - not as a reflection on the folks they've got - but imho they're simply understaffed for the production schedule they have. So we end up with the same cycle after each of the releases, ohhhhhhpower and then the time later to address that. Same goes for things that are underpowered too...it's going to take time to get that addressed.
Same thing is going to happen with S10...you can bet 2 EC on that if you could find somebody willing to take the bet, which I'd doubt, cause it happens over and over and over again.
But folks will go on blaming the PvPers...course, folks blame the DPSers too ("stop posting vids, Cryptic will nerf stuff" is a common complaint too).
And to be blunt, I think that's what it comes down to...that hatred for the PvPers and the DPSers. They're not hiding the issues...they're talking about them or they're displaying them. Folks that want to keep that stuff hidden...well, they don't like that.
Shhh, I'm waiting for the reply...so I can talk about how they're an Engineer - and - if they want to scapegoat somebody for the Surgical Strikes changes, maybe they should go after Tac Captains. Then if they were to stop to think about many of the changes, including the increase in difficulty, how they could probably point to Tac Captains as well. :P
Actually, now that you mention it, AHOD + Tact Captain totally *is* OP! And yes, I'm an Engineer. Yet you never see me clamor for nerfs to Tact Captains, do you?! And you know why? Because I believe in 'Live and let live.' I don't like being nerfed myself; and, in turn, never ask others be nerfed either. People invested money and time into getting their Rom Tact Captains: they deserve to keep their 'OP-ness.' Much like me, the Fed Engineer, deserved to keep my 'OP' Phantom. And you do understand I use the term 'OP' just anecdotallly here, right?
Sorry, VD, you're gonna have to do a lot better to goat me.
for most of the pvP community, Surgical Strikes wasn't even an issue after mid-november, aside from a few complainers who still didn't have a grasp of the basics, much less the advanced stuff.
false. SS3 + Ionic was a death sentence in mid-november. Meh, that was a period I hated. I didn't want to use SS3 because it was stupid, older escorts were flying targets, science was limited to reflection trickies. Essentially, I made an anti-intel Vesta that was bare invapable aimed to kill back the wankstains who were abusing SS3. Curious thing is that they've all disappeared after SS3 got nerfed. :rolleyes:
Essentially I hated it because there was zero variety in the metagame.
And to be blunt, I think that's what it comes down to...that hatred for the PvPers and the DPSers. They're not hiding the issues...they're talking about them or they're displaying them. Folks that want to keep that stuff hidden...well, they don't like that.
That seems to be pretty much it. People fear that their toys get nerfed. They refuse to see the perspective of people that actually have to deal with the imbalance -which can be a PvP player, a DPS guy, or just the guy that likes to fly a particular type of ship that can't use that particular toy and is now at a disadvantage, or has to give up his favourite ship.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Notably, like your FBP build, they weren't that great shakes in PvE until someone figured out how to work an AOE exploit in there using Grav Wells to pull mobs into the turbulence field.
Interesting why you'd call that an 'exploit.' Me, I would just call that 'clever gameplay.' Does that make using my gravtorp, working 'an AOE exploit in there using Grav Wells' now an exploit too?! Calling such tactics an eploit is setting a dangerous precedent, IMHO, because isn't that the whole purpose of the game, to become proficient at your builds?! Maybe that is how people looked at SS too: someone was smart enough to realize that, with a lot of CrtH, one might actually slot Vulnerability, erm, Exploiters (LOL). And then everyone starting screaming red.
No, seriously, why is thinking up half-way clever things deemed exploitative behavior? A little off-topic, I know, but I'm always curious why ppl feel that way.
Actually, now that you mention it, AHOD + Tact Captain totally *is* OP! And yes, I'm an Engineer. Yet you never see me clamor for nerfs to Tact Captains, do you?! And you know why? Because I believe in 'Live and let live.' I don't like being nerfed myself; and, in turn, never ask others be nerfed either. People invested money and time into getting their Rom Tact Captains: they deserve to keep their 'OP-ness.' Much like me, the Fed Engineer, deserved to keep my 'OP' Phantom. And you do understand I use the term 'OP' just anecdotallly here, right?
Sorry, VD, you're gonna have to do a lot better to goat me.
It's not a case of trying to goat you...it's just literally a case of pointing out why Surgical Strikes was likely adjusted and how as an Eng Captain that would have adversely affected you.
Those "reasonable amounts" by the way were 15% Crit Chance, and +200 Crit Severity. Values reasonably obtained by many players, and hilarious outstripped by our high-end performers.
Do you have 15% or more CrtH?
Do you have 200% or more CrtD?
We start with 2.5% CrtH and 50% CrtD...how did you get your +12.5% CrtH and +150% CrtD to reach that "reasonable amount" of both?
Precision and Advanced Targeting? Cool, you're at 6.5% and 66% CrtD. Only need +8.5% CrtH and +84% CrtD.
Perhaps you've got room for two SROs? Cool, you're at 10.5% and 76% CrtD. Only need +4.5% CrtH and +74% CrtD.
Work in 3x UR12 Locators with their 1.6% CrtH? You've hit the CrtH amount, but what about the CrtD?
Maybe running some [CrtD]x3 weapons? That's +60%...which isn't +76%. Wait, if you go with standard AP! Tada, you've hit the CrtD amount too.
Course, APA3 w/ 9 SAP (T1 skill) provides +5% CrtH and +49.6% CrtD....
* * * * *
You may feel that you're using the term "OP" in a certain fashion, but face it...
A Rom will have +7.5% CrtH / +18.8% CrtD over a non-Rom and a Scimitar is a Scimitar.
And while one might have felt that Surgical helped a non-Tac close some of the gap, it ignores that the Tac isn't prohibited from using it and with the underlying way mechanics worked, it would have actually increased the gap all that much more.
* * * * *
It really does come off after a time of you saying, "I don't care if everybody wants to call this an apple, but this is an orange and it's all the fault of those damn bananas."
By itself it wasn't though-it took running both Ionic turbulence aND SS3.
not just the one ability. Most of those wankstains left when they couldn't chain-disable, but if a ship could pack IT and BO3 it was doing basically the same thing.
The problems boiled down to synergies. Individually the intel abilities weren't and aren't all that great-it's only when you take what one does, and add in what another does, and leave them broken-with-no-counter that you see the lolkillz that Intel ships were racking up from release day in October through to the patch back in January.
Notably, like your FBP build, they weren't that great shakes in PvE until someone figured out how to work an AOE exploit in there using Grav Wells to pull mobs into the turbulence field.
That seems to be pretty much it. People fear that their toys get nerfed. They refuse to see the perspective of people that actually have to deal with the imbalance -which can be a PvP player, a DPS guy, or just the guy that likes to fly a particular type of ship that can't use that particular toy and is now at a disadvantage, or has to give up his favourite ship.
And thus you refuse to see the perspective of people that actually have to deal with being put at a disadvantage, or of those who had to give up their favourite ship. :P
Funny how that door swings boths ways, doesn't it?! Except, on my end of the door, there's 99% of the playerbase suffering penalties, because that 1% on the other end of the door couldn't win in PvP.
And to be blunt, I think that's what it comes down to...that hatred for the PvPers and the DPSers. They're not hiding the issues...they're talking about them or they're displaying them. Folks that want to keep that stuff hidden...well, they don't like that.
There's making discreet mention to the party involved and then there's slapping them in the face and throwing the gauntlet down in public.
Which one will gain the players involved more enmity from the devs is left as an exercise to the reader.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
You may feel that you're using the term "OP" in a certain fashion, but face it...
A Rom will have +7.5% CrtH / +18.8% CrtD over a non-Rom and a Scimitar is a Scimitar.
And while one might have felt that Surgical helped a non-Tac close some of the gap, it ignores that the Tac isn't prohibited from using it and with the underlying way mechanics worked, it would have actually increased the gap all that much more.
* * * * *
All true. A Tact Captain using SS will do a lot better with it than me, an Engineer. Never bothered me, really. At least, as a Fed Engineer, I could use Reciprocity to get it to global fairly easily. But a Fed Tact Captain can bring AHOD + APA + TI + FOMM to the table on top of that, all of which completely blows away what an Engineer can do with AHOD. Me, I just get to press my Nadion Inversion a few extra times. All of which I've long since come to peace with. If not, I couldn't continue to play the game and keep my sanity.
Records were broken using OP plasma doping. Another broken ability but you can't even remotely blame PvP for.
And no one even remotely did. :P
You're just QQing bc you used Surgical Strikes and you can't duplicate that DPS without something broken..
Um, remember the part where SS3, even in its glory days, was *still* being outperfomed by BFAW?! That's just the nature of how PvE works (lotsa AoE targets).
REMINDER: Do NOT quote posts which break forum rules! ~Bluegeek
Interesting why you'd call that an 'exploit.' Me, I would just call that 'clever gameplay.' Does that make using my gravtorp, working 'an AOE exploit in there using Grav Wells' now an exploit too?! Calling such tactics an eploit is setting a dangerous precedent, IMHO, because isn't that the whole purpose of the game, to become proficient at your builds?! Maybe that is how people looked at SS too: someone was smart enough to realize that, with a lot of CrtH, one might actually slot Vulnerability, erm, Exploiters (LOL). And then everyone starting screaming red.
No, seriously, why is thinking up half-way clever things deemed exploitative behavior? A little off-topic, I know, but I'm always curious why ppl feel that way.
You make a good point, but would you be surprised to learn that the overall difference between exploiters or locaters with SS is tiny? And it's currently in favor of locators with the latest nerf?
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Comments
While I don't think it would work in STO, there are several games where something along those lines has taken place. Heh, even going back to UO with the PKs and PKKs. There were the folks that hunted the masses and those that hunted the hunters. It even ended up with situations where the PKKs would patrol the areas where the PKs might strike...so in many cases the PKs and PKKs would be the groups fighting. Only if the PKs got by the PKKs would they get at the masses. Sometimes, the PKs would get their first but then the PKKs would sweep in exacting swift vengeance. It actually gets into a symbiotic relationship in some games...
...however, in other games - well, it does end up just being PKs striking at the masses while avoiding each other. You'll have these guys killing folks over here and these guys killing folks over there.
With the way gaming society has changed in the past 5-10 years, I'd lean more toward the latter happening than the former...cause well, yeah, people.
Shhh, I'm waiting for the reply...so I can talk about how they're an Engineer - and - if they want to scapegoat somebody for the Surgical Strikes changes, maybe they should go after Tac Captains. Then if they were to stop to think about many of the changes, including the increase in difficulty, how they could probably point to Tac Captains as well. :P
In the end, it's about rewards...little else. Like all the folks clamoring about how awesome the changes to Advanced Queues will be for folks...ignoring that it's a massive nerf to rewards. The forums will go on as they go on...entertaining.
Glorious PvPers master race!
No really. People pretending to be epic at smashing only non-thinking and scripted NPCs but not living people should just stay silent :rolleyes:
Let me turn this around. If Bort, the Dev responsible for PvP, in fact nerfed SS3 because of PvP whines, do you think he'd tell us about it in public?!
More to the point, though, as I asked the OP repeatedly, are the PvP-ers now hiding behind an official post Bort made, so as to claim they had nothing to do with the nerfing? I mean, has it really come down to that?! For months on end the PvP community had been screaming for a nerf to SS3; and now, suddenly, y'all pretending you had nothing to do with it?! How lame is that!? If you got something nerfed, at least have the guts to say you did! Like the OP did, actually, in his start-post, when he flat-out admitted PvP-ers got Surgical Strikes nerfed. That, at least, was manly. This weak denial, otoh, is downright pathetic.
Lol, i was joking ofc
people dislike PvPers because... well I don't freaking know. That's a myth somebody will have to tell me because in no way the PvP community actually gave a single TRIBBLE about PvErs ever, I don't see why PvErs have to complain that much.
Meh, PvErs are simply... envious? can't find the right word. Basically veteran PvPers know every bit of game mechanics, things like counters, healing, attacking, coordination, team communication, ship building that goes beyond PvErs world of moar DPS needed!!!1111!. PvErs do not have the experience to say what's good and what's bad because the only thing they now is damage, more damage, even more damage, ludicrous damage. Healers? That's an unknown word for them.
The guy who kept saying SS3 nerf was unnecessary even after a Dev told him twice it was overpowered since the beginning is the confirmation.
Considering Smirk's Contortrix back in the days, he was running boarding party, a torpedo, mixed beams and cannons with zero synergy between boff powers. I guess the vast majority of the guys at cryptic has no idea of how to build a zero-budget ship lol.
here's the damned answer. Official. SS3 was officially broken. Broken enough there was no reason to run fire at will, cannon rapid fire and cannon scatter volley. If it wasn't for PvPers, it would have never been fixed. All the rest of your post is senseless conjecture that may prove good for Illuminati conspiracy theories.
PvPers noticed it was broken because NPC, the PvErs targets, can't speak!. How the hell are you supposed to say a word when all you can do is point guns to a hitpoint bag?
No real reason to run BFAW, eh? Lolz. No DPS League record was ever broken using Surgical Strikes: that makes me 10x more right than all your usual drivel put together.
It get's the blame for things getting nerfed, for blatantly overpowered things to turn up in a new season...about the only time the masses speak favourably of it is when it supports their own argument, which ironically most of the time has something to do with a nerf.
Thing is this argument is always pointless. Cryptic listen to Cryptic and no-one else. A PvP whine thread has just as much a chance of changing a devs mind as a PvE whine thread.
DPS League? You mean how fast you kill hitpoint bags? God that must be a real accomplishment. Wow.
Have a look at this, a series of matches I took part in the last year from another participant's point of view. That was balanced. Not oneshot abilities like the old SS3 thing was.
Or even older this. Which happens to be my all time favorite match. (ps. I'm one of the Scimitars).
Bort is not responsible for PvP. There is no PvP Dev. Hell, there's no PvP Advocate - there's nobody there harassing everybody else on everything they're doing about how it will affect PvP. Doesn't mean that Bort or the other System guys 100% ignore PvP, but it's a PvE game and everybody knows that. There's not even a handful of them with a heinous production schedule, so they're going to miss things and even things players point out might not get fixed until the schedule allows them to get fixed. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - not as a reflection on the folks they've got - but imho they're simply understaffed for the production schedule they have. So we end up with the same cycle after each of the releases, ohhhhhhpower and then the time later to address that. Same goes for things that are underpowered too...it's going to take time to get that addressed.
Same thing is going to happen with S10...you can bet 2 EC on that if you could find somebody willing to take the bet, which I'd doubt, cause it happens over and over and over again.
But folks will go on blaming the PvPers...course, folks blame the DPSers too ("stop posting vids, Cryptic will nerf stuff" is a common complaint too).
And to be blunt, I think that's what it comes down to...that hatred for the PvPers and the DPSers. They're not hiding the issues...they're talking about them or they're displaying them. Folks that want to keep that stuff hidden...well, they don't like that.
Actually, now that you mention it, AHOD + Tact Captain totally *is* OP! And yes, I'm an Engineer. Yet you never see me clamor for nerfs to Tact Captains, do you?! And you know why? Because I believe in 'Live and let live.' I don't like being nerfed myself; and, in turn, never ask others be nerfed either. People invested money and time into getting their Rom Tact Captains: they deserve to keep their 'OP-ness.' Much like me, the Fed Engineer, deserved to keep my 'OP' Phantom. And you do understand I use the term 'OP' just anecdotallly here, right?
Sorry, VD, you're gonna have to do a lot better to goat me.
false. SS3 + Ionic was a death sentence in mid-november. Meh, that was a period I hated. I didn't want to use SS3 because it was stupid, older escorts were flying targets, science was limited to reflection trickies. Essentially, I made an anti-intel Vesta that was bare invapable aimed to kill back the wankstains who were abusing SS3. Curious thing is that they've all disappeared after SS3 got nerfed. :rolleyes:
Essentially I hated it because there was zero variety in the metagame.
Interesting why you'd call that an 'exploit.' Me, I would just call that 'clever gameplay.' Does that make using my gravtorp, working 'an AOE exploit in there using Grav Wells' now an exploit too?! Calling such tactics an eploit is setting a dangerous precedent, IMHO, because isn't that the whole purpose of the game, to become proficient at your builds?! Maybe that is how people looked at SS too: someone was smart enough to realize that, with a lot of CrtH, one might actually slot Vulnerability, erm, Exploiters (LOL). And then everyone starting screaming red.
No, seriously, why is thinking up half-way clever things deemed exploitative behavior? A little off-topic, I know, but I'm always curious why ppl feel that way.
It's not a case of trying to goat you...it's just literally a case of pointing out why Surgical Strikes was likely adjusted and how as an Eng Captain that would have adversely affected you.
Surgical w/ APA vs. Surgical w/o APA
The one part of what Bort said:
Do you have 15% or more CrtH?
Do you have 200% or more CrtD?
We start with 2.5% CrtH and 50% CrtD...how did you get your +12.5% CrtH and +150% CrtD to reach that "reasonable amount" of both?
Precision and Advanced Targeting? Cool, you're at 6.5% and 66% CrtD. Only need +8.5% CrtH and +84% CrtD.
Perhaps you've got room for two SROs? Cool, you're at 10.5% and 76% CrtD. Only need +4.5% CrtH and +74% CrtD.
Work in 3x UR12 Locators with their 1.6% CrtH? You've hit the CrtH amount, but what about the CrtD?
Maybe running some [CrtD]x3 weapons? That's +60%...which isn't +76%. Wait, if you go with standard AP! Tada, you've hit the CrtD amount too.
So all it took was...
Precision
Advanced Targeting
2x SROs
3x UR12 Locators
[CrtD]x3 AP Weapons
...wheeee!
Course, APA3 w/ 9 SAP (T1 skill) provides +5% CrtH and +49.6% CrtD....
* * * * *
You may feel that you're using the term "OP" in a certain fashion, but face it...
A Rom will have +7.5% CrtH / +18.8% CrtD over a non-Rom and a Scimitar is a Scimitar.
And while one might have felt that Surgical helped a non-Tac close some of the gap, it ignores that the Tac isn't prohibited from using it and with the underlying way mechanics worked, it would have actually increased the gap all that much more.
* * * * *
It really does come off after a time of you saying, "I don't care if everybody wants to call this an apple, but this is an orange and it's all the fault of those damn bananas."
Er...huh? What AoE exploit?
And thus you refuse to see the perspective of people that actually have to deal with being put at a disadvantage, or of those who had to give up their favourite ship. :P
Funny how that door swings boths ways, doesn't it?! Except, on my end of the door, there's 99% of the playerbase suffering penalties, because that 1% on the other end of the door couldn't win in PvP.
There's making discreet mention to the party involved and then there's slapping them in the face and throwing the gauntlet down in public.
Which one will gain the players involved more enmity from the devs is left as an exercise to the reader.
All true. A Tact Captain using SS will do a lot better with it than me, an Engineer. Never bothered me, really. At least, as a Fed Engineer, I could use Reciprocity to get it to global fairly easily. But a Fed Tact Captain can bring AHOD + APA + TI + FOMM to the table on top of that, all of which completely blows away what an Engineer can do with AHOD. Me, I just get to press my Nadion Inversion a few extra times.
And no one even remotely did. :P
Um, remember the part where SS3, even in its glory days, was *still* being outperfomed by BFAW?! That's just the nature of how PvE works (lotsa AoE targets).
REMINDER: Do NOT quote posts which break forum rules! ~Bluegeek
You make a good point, but would you be surprised to learn that the overall difference between exploiters or locaters with SS is tiny? And it's currently in favor of locators with the latest nerf?
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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