Either that, or let's open up the possibility of "making the other classes needed" - I mean, what if the spheres of ISA all EPtEed to the far corners of a 20km range rather than the far ends of the map? This way the 5 pack of Scims have a little work to do (split up and chase down their own "corner"), but that Sci with GW III kept them clustered together for 4x Scims to mow down... Or that Elite Tac Cube that one-hits a Tac-Scim will fire it's "OHK" attack on the local tank that's geared to survive it (instead of at the Scim) and leave the Scims to DeePS away...
Other classes? My tac in a Risian Corvette torpedo boat would love that. It can hit the 26 flight speed defense cap with slightly less than 1/4 throttle. If they could outrun the Corvette it'd have a pain train of hyper-plasma torpedoes coming for it. I'd love a reason to fly at full throttle, even though it outruns its torpedoes well before that speed.
Cruisers and park-n-shoots wouldn't like it though, so it'd never happen.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Trying to convince people that Engineers could use a buff is futile. I've tried it. You get two basic responses:
MY ENG IS FINE, L2P N00B! I CAN HIT 50K IN AN ENG
Tanks are totally needed in like, two of the queues. They're fine as is.
Ahhh - but here's the thing. CursedWolf (as the poster in this thread) has taken up the mantle of "let's ditch the trinity", and that the different playstyles should revolve around the method of delivery of DPS.
At this point, I'm going to "effectively call out" the "stance" that those who "traditionally seem to play this game" take - that their Tacticals in the Tac-oriented DPS machines are supposed to be the unchallenged champions of DPS and that, say, my Science-y role of CC or healer is supposed to make up for my "lacking" DPS.
Well, if I'm not called upon to heal or CC (trinity dead, remember?), then I should DeePS like the rest of you, amiright?
And of course, I'm not "so self centered" that I'll get "my" sciences fixed and call it a day. I remember there are engineers, too, and that they'll need to hit those Scimmy level numbers as easily as I can, too...
Or, I can point out that if Tacs "want to be able to be the kings of DeePS", then Sciences and Engineers need to have a kingdom of their own to rule, and that's suddenly going to be best represented via a trinity system - that actually almost needs all three parts of the trinity in each mission to complete it otherwise we're back to square one and the "Pick the one class that can cover for the lack of the other class(es) and roll exclusively that"...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Well, if I'm not called upon to heal or CC (trinity dead, remember?), then I should DeePS like the rest of you, amiright?
While I don't have a science slot for even GW1, explain the subspace wake, soliton generator, EWP1, constriction anchor, and nukara mines on my *tac's* Corvette?
If I hit the Romulan T5 ability I can tow even Recluses with the soliton generator.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here as well...too many folks making the Careers out to be more than they are:
Ships make much more of a difference in average play than career seems to.
Engineers might be getting the short straw in the buff/debuff department compared to the other two, especially if you aren't having problems staying alive and have your energy under control, but that takes that pressure off your boff powers and consoles.
To use Censoredcraft, here you can put a rogue in warrior's armor and be just as good a tank and the priest can throw on a different robe and rain down fiery space magic death just as well as a mage. And I like that.
For the record, I don't intentionally eat cube warp core explosions to trigger GDF on my tacs, so this is from an average gameplay viewpoint.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
While I don't have a science slot for even GW1, explain the subspace wake, soliton generator, EWP1, constriction anchor, and nukara mines on my *tac's* Corvette?
If I hit the Romulan T5 ability I can tow even Recluses with the soliton generator.
A true cynic would say "your tac can CC like a Sci can. So where's my tac-levels of DPS from my Science ship?"
One with a touch of understanding of the game does know that the three consoles to pull that build off, along with the selection of mines eating up one of those coveted omni-array tail slots, knows that you're "paying" for your Science-y CC "strength" with not being able to spew out scimitar levels of DPS, or have the tanking ability to survive that big hit that eludes your "speed based survival"...
I'm not "directly" championing the tying of class to role - I don't have a problem with a Tac "building themselves up like a Sci" being able to CC "like a Sci" - but by championing the "trinity", I am more accurately championing the necessity of the various roles - to be filled by whoever can fill them.
Unlike EQ / WOW where your class determines your role, the "beauty" of STO is that your Vette could take the place of my Sci in ISA, and trap those spheres as well as my GW III could. However, when that parse hits at the end of the run, you're probably closer to the 15k - 20k class where most "DPS built Tacs" average 25k - 30k.
Give and take. Maybe the beginning signs of this elusive concept called "balance"...
And if I pushed it a bit more - AMP core, APs over Polarons, etc., I could get my Sci / Sci into that 15-20k range that your vette might operate in. But still my "role", much like your Vette's, would be to provide CC, not to nuke targets in seconds...
Add a tweak or two to your Vette build - give up say EWP for Aux2SIF, one of them consoles for more neutronium, and you're Vette suddenly becomes a tank of the near highest order, but again, are you going to score 30k DPS while speed tanking like that?
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
One with a touch of understanding of the game does know that the three consoles to pull that build off, along with the selection of mines eating up one of those coveted omni-array tail slots, knows that you're "paying" for your Science-y CC "strength" with not being able to spew out scimitar levels of DPS, or have the tanking ability to survive that big hit that eludes your "speed based survival"...
If you don't have ship based subsystem targeting a beam, omni or not, has no business on a true torp boat save for set bonuses.
Also, the Risian Corvette can't even slot GW1 with its ensign science seat or lt universal.
More than one armor console starts getting into diminishing returns.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If you don't have ship based subsystem targeting a beam, omni or not, has no business on a true torp boat save for set bonuses.
Also, the Risian Corvette can't even slot GW1 with its ensign science seat or lt universal.
More than one armor console starts getting into diminishing returns.
1. I'm not about to argue build philosophy, I was thinking that the KCB is a common rear-slot weapon on many a torp boat to keep slivers of shields down for the torp(s) to hit. I've also heard a lot of "true torp boats" that can cycle 3 torps at global, so the 4th slot goes over to DBB for BO...
2. You opened with "my Vette can't slot GW I. However, I use pile-o-consoles, EWP, and Nukara Mines to do CC". And I agreed that your pile-o-stuffs = GW III-esque CC levels if not efficiency...
3. Having more than one source of damage resistance, period, begins to trip diminishing returns. However, depending on the magnitudes of the resistance(s), that second or even third source frequently is barely reduced. Again, without knowing the full build (or the maths that I can barely comprehend) I can't say where you stand on resists vs returns, and whether a second armor pushes your ships resistances up high enough to shrug off what would otherwise be a certain kill... I'll just say that my limited understanding of speed tanking and resists tell me that you'll be a better tank with than without...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
1. I'm not about to argue build philosophy, I was thinking that the KCB is a common rear-slot weapon on many a torp boat to keep slivers of shields down for the torp(s) to hit. I've also heard a lot of "true torp boats" that can cycle 3 torps at global, so the 4th slot goes over to DBB for BO...
Against PVE targets that don't use hazard emitters, which is basically all of them, plasma torpedoes with OKS can cook a ship with full shields.
Stance dancing power settings and burning a boff power on BO to not even make a dent in any non-trash shield is a lot of work for little payoff.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
On damage resistance, there is no diminishing returns like people think there is. The loss of value is actually very small when considering it as effective HP. Further it doesn't matter how many consoles you use, 30 armor from one console, two, or just a trait all give the exact same value in resistance. Armor is worthwhile, as are multiple armor consoles.
The only ships that might have a problem with significant diminished value are cruisers slotting all armor consoles of the same type and having other resistances from other places. But they will be very tough to kill all the same.
DPS League? You mean how fast you kill hitpoint bags? God that must be a real accomplishment. Wow.
Have a look at this, a series of matches I took part in the last year from another participant's point of view. That was balanced. Not oneshot abilities like the old SS3 thing was.
Or even older this. Which happens to be my all time favorite match. (ps. I'm one of the Scimitars).
To the vast majority of players, difficulty does not equate to fun factor. A lot of people who play this game what to feel like they are playing the shows the grew up watching, where a few phaser bursts and one spread of torpedoes was all it took to destroy a Klingon battle cruiser.
Now there are people who enjoy a long hard fight, people who want a challenge. People who want to work hard and pay for their victories in blood sweat and tears. These are a very small minority.
So, the reason why PVEers don't like PVPers by due to the fact they hate anything that reduces their damage output. They want to have fun, and for most people, a challenge isn't fun.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Against PVE targets that don't use hazard emitters, which is basically all of them, plasma torpedoes with OKS can cook a ship with full shields.
Stance dancing power settings and burning a boff power on BO to not even make a dent in any non-trash shield is a lot of work for little payoff.
So you're running a plasma torp boat... And, IIRC, you don't need the experimental array to get plasma bonus damage... So noted...
However, we're straying far from the point I was making. Your Vette, as built, can run the "role" of CC with that pile-o-consoles - at least once every two minutes or so... :P
Therefore, in a "pinch", say 5 Tac-scort(Destroyer) ISA, your Vette performs the "role" of CC - traditionally "pinned" on a Science type due to their "focus" on Sci skills and BOff slots...
Take those other 4 and have them coordinate heals on the "Alpha Tac" doing the most damage / taking most of the heat / "being the tank" - a "role" traditionally pinned to engineers because many engineering skills and engineer captain powers are focused on healing and hull strength.
Thusly, a "trinity" system of "tank" (Alpha Tac), "Controller" (torp-boat Corvette), and DPSers (the other three) is fulfilled and the mission completes - barring a fail of the heal rotation "creating the tank role" and/or mis-angle of the CC pass...
Of course, this system requires teamwork - coordination between the players to identify any missing roles, designate who will accept the post, use of the loadout system to slot a ship into that role, etc...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
point 1- this had to be moved from somewhere else, which would be missing the point of the thread entirely, as usual. anymore though, moving stuff like this into the pvp section is figuratively throwing it into a garbage can.
point 2- i've never successfully convinced a stupid person they were stupid by calling them stupid, threads like this just wont accomplish anything. their entire player identity revolves around the hated pvp boogyman, there's no point trying to prove something to "people" that put more stock in their gut feeling then actual evidence and dev quotes.
Simple solution (they will never do) - create a PVP server. Same game but "balanced" for PvP. Keep the current as a PvE server and leave the abilities alone.
Se ehow long until the PvP server runs on a minimal player base and how quickly they will be back to the PvE server complaining.
No PvPer wants to roflstomp failsauce PvEers. It's boring and a waste of time.
On damage resistance, there is no diminishing returns like people think there is. The loss of value is actually very small when considering it as effective HP. Further it doesn't matter how many consoles you use, 30 armor from one console, two, or just a trait all give the exact same value in resistance. Armor is worthwhile, as are multiple armor consoles.
The only ships that might have a problem with significant diminished value are cruisers slotting all armor consoles of the same type and having other resistances from other places. But they will be very tough to kill all the same.
The value is going to vary widely upon the build. Player A can point to their build and say they're getting X value out of doing something while Player B can point to their build where they're getting Y or Z value from doing the same instead of X.
Let me pull the two consoles I have providing DRR from the boat I'm currently in. It drops my resists down to: 29.2% Kinetic and 34.7% Energy.
So let's start off by slotting the console that provides an additional +37.5 Energy DRR.
Total: 92.1 DRR...46.2% DR
Some will say to ignore that the additional 37.5 DRR only provided 11.5% DR. That the diminishing returns there do no matter, it's about the effective health that it provides.
Energy: 96333 / (1 - 0.462) = 179058
179058 - 147524 = 31534
31,534 more effective health looks pretty good, yeah?
Course, I've got all sorts of things providing healing as well as all sorts of things providing other boosts to damage resistance.
Let's go back to the 54.6 DRR and add in the following...
Maybe grab 4x from Attract Fire for another +30 DRR, taking me to 221.3 DRR...or...62.8% DR.
Energy: 96333 / (1 - 0.628) = 258960
Now let's add that +37.5 back in, eh? So I'm at 258.8 DRR...and...64.9% DR.
Energy: 96333 / (1 - 0.649) = 274453
274453 - 258960 = 15493
So it's no longer giving me the 31534, but it's still giving 15493, eh? 49.13% of what it was giving previously. And well, when working the APS/DPS of NPCs...when looking at available heals...going from ~260k to ~275k EHP...doesn't really mean much compared to using that console slot for something else.
Course, this is the console I'm using for that +37.5 DRR...
Console - Universal - Bounty Hunter's Friend Mk XIV
+37.5 All Energy Damage Resistance Rating
+28.1 Starship Shield Emitters
-10% Weapon Power Cost
I don't have the shield healing boosts nor shield healing like I do for hull, so it's somewhat helpful and on a boat with 7 Energy Weapons without Leech, I like to pretend the Power Cost reduction helps.
How about looking at another ship? T5U D'Kyr, eh?
Energy: 12.6% DR (14.6 DRR)
Kinetic: 2.0% DR (2.0 DRR)
Adding in that +37.5 (E) and +50 (K) (oh yeah, forgot that my other console's a +50 Kinetic DRR G14 Exotic Particle Field Exciter)...takes me to 33.7% (52.1 DRR) and 33.6% (52.0 DRR).
So with the 61,181 hull I had...
Energy: 61181 / (1 - 0.126) = 70001 EHP
...the Bounty took me to...
Energy: 61181 / (1 - 0.337) = 92279 EHP
...increasing my EHP by 92279 - 70001 = 22278.
Oh yeah, though, AtS2, HE2, Scattering3...no Attract Fire though...but way better shields and shield healing so less chance of direct hull damage too.
It's all going to come down to the build and what's going on.
Keeping in mind the differences between PvP and PvE in wanting to have some buffer to survive spike...NPCs tickle compared to players.
Yeah, true. They should just murder NPCs instead. Let those poor guys learn the game a bit.
It was the difference between the groups that went balls to the wall against an outclassed opponent and those that might have somebody sit out, might offer up a few kills to the other team if they were putting in some effort, took a moment to talk to the other side, etc, etc, etc.
Some folks wanted more folks to PvP...cause folks that showed an interest, stuck around, got better, might provide a fun challenge down the line...and one could only actually improve through challenge.
Some folks never really wanted a challenge.
edit: It's kind of depressing thinking about how many groups out there did all they could to drive folks away from PvP. Which in turn led to folks that were trying to help/grow the community getting tarred and feathered...meh.
the echo chamber that is this isolated PvP community is likely to do nothing but stir up additional ire among the small number of players that come here
Comments
Other classes? My tac in a Risian Corvette torpedo boat would love that. It can hit the 26 flight speed defense cap with slightly less than 1/4 throttle. If they could outrun the Corvette it'd have a pain train of hyper-plasma torpedoes coming for it. I'd love a reason to fly at full throttle, even though it outruns its torpedoes well before that speed.
Cruisers and park-n-shoots wouldn't like it though, so it'd never happen.
Even beyond the Career choices, it gets brutal when Geko talks about the BOFF abilities being balanced.
Though much like I gave up on KDF to go Fed, I gave up on Eng to go Sci.
Ahhh - but here's the thing. CursedWolf (as the poster in this thread) has taken up the mantle of "let's ditch the trinity", and that the different playstyles should revolve around the method of delivery of DPS.
At this point, I'm going to "effectively call out" the "stance" that those who "traditionally seem to play this game" take - that their Tacticals in the Tac-oriented DPS machines are supposed to be the unchallenged champions of DPS and that, say, my Science-y role of CC or healer is supposed to make up for my "lacking" DPS.
Well, if I'm not called upon to heal or CC (trinity dead, remember?), then I should DeePS like the rest of you, amiright?
And of course, I'm not "so self centered" that I'll get "my" sciences fixed and call it a day. I remember there are engineers, too, and that they'll need to hit those Scimmy level numbers as easily as I can, too...
Or, I can point out that if Tacs "want to be able to be the kings of DeePS", then Sciences and Engineers need to have a kingdom of their own to rule, and that's suddenly going to be best represented via a trinity system - that actually almost needs all three parts of the trinity in each mission to complete it otherwise we're back to square one and the "Pick the one class that can cover for the lack of the other class(es) and roll exclusively that"...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
While I don't have a science slot for even GW1, explain the subspace wake, soliton generator, EWP1, constriction anchor, and nukara mines on my *tac's* Corvette?
If I hit the Romulan T5 ability I can tow even Recluses with the soliton generator.
Ships make much more of a difference in average play than career seems to.
Engineers might be getting the short straw in the buff/debuff department compared to the other two, especially if you aren't having problems staying alive and have your energy under control, but that takes that pressure off your boff powers and consoles.
To use Censoredcraft, here you can put a rogue in warrior's armor and be just as good a tank and the priest can throw on a different robe and rain down fiery space magic death just as well as a mage. And I like that.
For the record, I don't intentionally eat cube warp core explosions to trigger GDF on my tacs, so this is from an average gameplay viewpoint.
A true cynic would say "your tac can CC like a Sci can. So where's my tac-levels of DPS from my Science ship?"
One with a touch of understanding of the game does know that the three consoles to pull that build off, along with the selection of mines eating up one of those coveted omni-array tail slots, knows that you're "paying" for your Science-y CC "strength" with not being able to spew out scimitar levels of DPS, or have the tanking ability to survive that big hit that eludes your "speed based survival"...
I'm not "directly" championing the tying of class to role - I don't have a problem with a Tac "building themselves up like a Sci" being able to CC "like a Sci" - but by championing the "trinity", I am more accurately championing the necessity of the various roles - to be filled by whoever can fill them.
Unlike EQ / WOW where your class determines your role, the "beauty" of STO is that your Vette could take the place of my Sci in ISA, and trap those spheres as well as my GW III could. However, when that parse hits at the end of the run, you're probably closer to the 15k - 20k class where most "DPS built Tacs" average 25k - 30k.
Give and take. Maybe the beginning signs of this elusive concept called "balance"...
And if I pushed it a bit more - AMP core, APs over Polarons, etc., I could get my Sci / Sci into that 15-20k range that your vette might operate in. But still my "role", much like your Vette's, would be to provide CC, not to nuke targets in seconds...
Add a tweak or two to your Vette build - give up say EWP for Aux2SIF, one of them consoles for more neutronium, and you're Vette suddenly becomes a tank of the near highest order, but again, are you going to score 30k DPS while speed tanking like that?
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
If you don't have ship based subsystem targeting a beam, omni or not, has no business on a true torp boat save for set bonuses.
Also, the Risian Corvette can't even slot GW1 with its ensign science seat or lt universal.
More than one armor console starts getting into diminishing returns.
1. I'm not about to argue build philosophy, I was thinking that the KCB is a common rear-slot weapon on many a torp boat to keep slivers of shields down for the torp(s) to hit. I've also heard a lot of "true torp boats" that can cycle 3 torps at global, so the 4th slot goes over to DBB for BO...
2. You opened with "my Vette can't slot GW I. However, I use pile-o-consoles, EWP, and Nukara Mines to do CC". And I agreed that your pile-o-stuffs = GW III-esque CC levels if not efficiency...
3. Having more than one source of damage resistance, period, begins to trip diminishing returns. However, depending on the magnitudes of the resistance(s), that second or even third source frequently is barely reduced. Again, without knowing the full build (or the maths that I can barely comprehend) I can't say where you stand on resists vs returns, and whether a second armor pushes your ships resistances up high enough to shrug off what would otherwise be a certain kill... I'll just say that my limited understanding of speed tanking and resists tell me that you'll be a better tank with than without...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Against PVE targets that don't use hazard emitters, which is basically all of them, plasma torpedoes with OKS can cook a ship with full shields.
Stance dancing power settings and burning a boff power on BO to not even make a dent in any non-trash shield is a lot of work for little payoff.
The only ships that might have a problem with significant diminished value are cruisers slotting all armor consoles of the same type and having other resistances from other places. But they will be very tough to kill all the same.
I firmly believe that if you roll perfect criticals, the Galaxy X should have a Mastery trait for this exact thing for its Spine Lance ^^
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
You mean like EVE Online, which currently has fewer players than any point in the last three years?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
To the vast majority of players, difficulty does not equate to fun factor. A lot of people who play this game what to feel like they are playing the shows the grew up watching, where a few phaser bursts and one spread of torpedoes was all it took to destroy a Klingon battle cruiser.
Now there are people who enjoy a long hard fight, people who want a challenge. People who want to work hard and pay for their victories in blood sweat and tears. These are a very small minority.
So, the reason why PVEers don't like PVPers by due to the fact they hate anything that reduces their damage output. They want to have fun, and for most people, a challenge isn't fun.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
So you're running a plasma torp boat... And, IIRC, you don't need the experimental array to get plasma bonus damage... So noted...
However, we're straying far from the point I was making. Your Vette, as built, can run the "role" of CC with that pile-o-consoles - at least once every two minutes or so... :P
Therefore, in a "pinch", say 5 Tac-scort(Destroyer) ISA, your Vette performs the "role" of CC - traditionally "pinned" on a Science type due to their "focus" on Sci skills and BOff slots...
Take those other 4 and have them coordinate heals on the "Alpha Tac" doing the most damage / taking most of the heat / "being the tank" - a "role" traditionally pinned to engineers because many engineering skills and engineer captain powers are focused on healing and hull strength.
Thusly, a "trinity" system of "tank" (Alpha Tac), "Controller" (torp-boat Corvette), and DPSers (the other three) is fulfilled and the mission completes - barring a fail of the heal rotation "creating the tank role" and/or mis-angle of the CC pass...
Of course, this system requires teamwork - coordination between the players to identify any missing roles, designate who will accept the post, use of the loadout system to slot a ship into that role, etc...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The whole point of keeping it in the General Discussion was because this whole thread is addressed to the general population.
Everyone in the PvP section here already knows all of this stuff.
That always happens.
Anything with our magical 3 letter phrase automatically gets banished to the PvP section where no one but the PvPers read it.
are there rules for writing fantasy storys?
Considering getting back into writing. Tips?
So somewhere down the line when Ten Forward gets nerfed, folks will blame PvPers.
point 2- i've never successfully convinced a stupid person they were stupid by calling them stupid, threads like this just wont accomplish anything. their entire player identity revolves around the hated pvp boogyman, there's no point trying to prove something to "people" that put more stock in their gut feeling then actual evidence and dev quotes.
No PvPer wants to roflstomp failsauce PvEers. It's boring and a waste of time.
The value is going to vary widely upon the build. Player A can point to their build and say they're getting X value out of doing something while Player B can point to their build where they're getting Y or Z value from doing the same instead of X.
Let me pull the two consoles I have providing DRR from the boat I'm currently in. It drops my resists down to: 29.2% Kinetic and 34.7% Energy.
Energy
6 Starship Hull Plating: +12.6 DRR
Accolade: +2 DRR
Enhanced Hull Plating (Tier 3 Starship Mastery): +25 DRR
Integrated Enhanced RCS Module (2pc Command Platforms): +15 DRR
Total: 54.6 DRR...34.7% DR
Kinetic
Accolade: +2 DRR
Absorptive Hull Plating (Tier 1 Starship Mastery): +25 DRR
Integrated Enhanced RCS Module (2pc Command Platforms): +15 DRR
Total: 42 DRR...29.2% DR
Moving on, I've got 96,333 Hull. Figuring out the Effective Hull vs. Energy/Kinetic is basically...
Energy: 96333 / (1 - 0.347) = 147524
Kinetic: 96333 / (1 - 0.292) = 136064
So let's start off by slotting the console that provides an additional +37.5 Energy DRR.
Total: 92.1 DRR...46.2% DR
Some will say to ignore that the additional 37.5 DRR only provided 11.5% DR. That the diminishing returns there do no matter, it's about the effective health that it provides.
Energy: 96333 / (1 - 0.462) = 179058
179058 - 147524 = 31534
31,534 more effective health looks pretty good, yeah?
Course, I've got all sorts of things providing healing as well as all sorts of things providing other boosts to damage resistance.
Let's go back to the 54.6 DRR and add in the following...
Scattering3: +82.9 DRR
AtS2: +27.8 DRR
HE2: +26 DRR
...taking me to 191.3 DRR. I'm at ~60.5% DR now.
Maybe grab 4x from Attract Fire for another +30 DRR, taking me to 221.3 DRR...or...62.8% DR.
Energy: 96333 / (1 - 0.628) = 258960
Now let's add that +37.5 back in, eh? So I'm at 258.8 DRR...and...64.9% DR.
Energy: 96333 / (1 - 0.649) = 274453
274453 - 258960 = 15493
So it's no longer giving me the 31534, but it's still giving 15493, eh? 49.13% of what it was giving previously. And well, when working the APS/DPS of NPCs...when looking at available heals...going from ~260k to ~275k EHP...doesn't really mean much compared to using that console slot for something else.
Course, this is the console I'm using for that +37.5 DRR...
Console - Universal - Bounty Hunter's Friend Mk XIV
+37.5 All Energy Damage Resistance Rating
+28.1 Starship Shield Emitters
-10% Weapon Power Cost
I don't have the shield healing boosts nor shield healing like I do for hull, so it's somewhat helpful and on a boat with 7 Energy Weapons without Leech, I like to pretend the Power Cost reduction helps.
How about looking at another ship? T5U D'Kyr, eh?
Energy: 12.6% DR (14.6 DRR)
Kinetic: 2.0% DR (2.0 DRR)
Adding in that +37.5 (E) and +50 (K) (oh yeah, forgot that my other console's a +50 Kinetic DRR G14 Exotic Particle Field Exciter)...takes me to 33.7% (52.1 DRR) and 33.6% (52.0 DRR).
So with the 61,181 hull I had...
Energy: 61181 / (1 - 0.126) = 70001 EHP
...the Bounty took me to...
Energy: 61181 / (1 - 0.337) = 92279 EHP
...increasing my EHP by 92279 - 70001 = 22278.
Oh yeah, though, AtS2, HE2, Scattering3...no Attract Fire though...but way better shields and shield healing so less chance of direct hull damage too.
It's all going to come down to the build and what's going on.
Keeping in mind the differences between PvP and PvE in wanting to have some buffer to survive spike...NPCs tickle compared to players.
I don't know...there are a bunch of folks that like to do that just like there are folks that like to do that to NPCs.
Yeah, true. They should just murder NPCs instead. Let those poor guys learn the game a bit.
It was the difference between the groups that went balls to the wall against an outclassed opponent and those that might have somebody sit out, might offer up a few kills to the other team if they were putting in some effort, took a moment to talk to the other side, etc, etc, etc.
Some folks wanted more folks to PvP...cause folks that showed an interest, stuck around, got better, might provide a fun challenge down the line...and one could only actually improve through challenge.
Some folks never really wanted a challenge.
edit: It's kind of depressing thinking about how many groups out there did all they could to drive folks away from PvP. Which in turn led to folks that were trying to help/grow the community getting tarred and feathered...meh.
Well, PVP community must stay isolated.