DS9 itself also causes some issue about the location of AR-558, as an okudagram graphic seen onscreen has the relay some distance "north" of DS9, Starbase 375, and the badlands in Federation space: DS9 screencap #1; DS9 screencap #2. There's no way Chin'toka can both be a Cardassian world as claimed in the show and have AR-558 located in the same system.
When it comes to discrepancies between background graphics seen on-screen and real dialogue, the latter should always be given precedence. There are a few other instances like that, e.g., Starbase 23 <--> 24 in TNG: "Sins of the Father".
I'm not exactly clear how you came to your conclusion based on that Okudagram.
I was pointing out that even people who worked on the show also got it wrong from time to time. Quark clearly indicated in dialogue that AR-558 was in the Chin'toka system, and Weyoun mentioned the planet being Cardassian. The location on the okudagram places the the relay station and the system in a location far from Cardassian borders. Chin'toka is meant to be within the boundries of Cardassian space. The Star Charts book causes issues with itself since it lists Chin'toka as a separate system "southeast" of DS9 between the McAllister C-5 nebula and the Federation border, clearly the author of the book took the okudagram as the proper location of the relay, since it also reproduces the same diagram in the book itself, without checking what was mentioned on screen.
Now, 2D maps don't really help in determining an actual location in 3D space, however from STO's perspective we're ostensibly dealing with a "2D world", so it'd be better to have AR-558 renamed to Chin'toka system and moved to Cardassian space near Betazed, with reference to AR-558 and the relay station added to the info box that pops up when near the system.
I was pointing out that even people who worked on the show also got it wrong from time to time. Quark clearly indicated in dialogue that AR-558 was in the Chin'toka system, and Weyoun mentioned the planet being Cardassian. The location on the okudagram places the the relay station and the system in a location far from Cardassian borders. Chin'toka is meant to be within the boundries of Cardassian space. The Star Charts book causes issues with itself since it lists Chin'toka as a separate system "southeast" of DS9 between the McAllister C-5 nebula and the Federation border, clearly the author of the book took the okudagram as the proper location of the relay, since it also reproduces the same diagram in the book itself, without checking what was mentioned on screen.
Now, 2D maps don't really help in determining an actual location in 3D space, however from STO's perspective we're ostensibly dealing with a "2D world", so it'd be better to have AR-558 renamed to Chin'toka system and moved to Cardassian space near Betazed, with reference to AR-558 and the relay station added to the info box that pops up when near the system.
Agreed. Dialogue should win.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
To be honest, I am a little baffled as to why Battle Group Omega are being put back on the map.
Those ships shouldn't be there anymore in my opinion. They don't DO anything. Story-wise they don't participate in any anti-Borg missions, STF's or FE's. They are a task-group formed to fight the Borg. But they don't fight the Borg - they just sit at that gate, doing absolutely nothing, and let five random ships do all the work instead. Heck the ONE time that we saw Admiral D'ork (Hive Onslaught) he brought ONE ship (USS Houston), and it wasn't even one from the task group.
They are the obsolete remains of content long since gone from the game and serve no purpose.
From all the dialogue gathered on them, yes they're designed to fight the Borg, but they aren't actually a front-line group - they're far more of a last defense type of thing. They keep an eye on the Borg activities most of the time, planning and sending other captains to gather specific intel, then assigning missions and reacting as needed. If emergency situations arise, then they're there as needed
In other words, not really any different from the numerous Joint Command operatives we already deal with for orders - but in this case, doing anything unnecessary might alert the Borg to their location, which would then compromise their base of operations
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Actually, inertia was a thing in Sector Space long before this update - My Kumari could slow from 50 to 47ish LY's pretty easily, but for my Bortasqu', I needed to turn off max warp at 90 LY before he stopped just inside 40
I hardly think that's changed at all here, at least much
you can reduce this a bit by backing down (using reverse). not by much, but it helps.
To be honest, I am a little baffled as to why Battle Group Omega are being put back on the map.
Those ships shouldn't be there anymore in my opinion. They don't DO anything. Story-wise they don't participate in any anti-Borg missions, STF's or FE's. They are a task-group formed to fight the Borg. But they don't fight the Borg - they just sit at that gate, doing absolutely nothing, and let five random ships do all the work instead. Heck the ONE time that we saw Admiral D'ork (Hive Onslaught) he brought ONE ship (USS Houston), and it wasn't even one from the task group.
They are the obsolete remains of content long since gone from the game and serve no purpose.
but isn't it useful as a way station for players traveling through there to be able to access banks and other services? its basically a "station" out there now. if anything, its more useful now as a way station than it ever was as a gateway into borg space.
at least some of the problems with the new expanding systems might be helped a great deal by making the autonav a little bit better. giving it the ability to react to systems to pass by them and to also have a bit longer deceleration phase so you don't slam headlong into a star at your destination (this is very disconcerting).
---
might it be possible for the systems to use the elevation a bit? some systems at the bottom or the top of the sector space region?
this might also need the autonav feature to be improved, in the past, the feature has proven ignorant of the need to change "altitude" to get to a system.
One thing that hasn't been brought up yet; what kind of music are we going to be hearing in the Alpha and Beta quadrant sector space now? It'd be good if they were both different, and I know most will want something traditionally uplifting, however personally I'd love to hear something in the vein of the New Romulus track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUtHTe-S3Cc
DS9 itself also causes some issue about the location of AR-558, as an okudagram graphic seen onscreen has the relay some distance "north" of DS9, Starbase 375, and the badlands in Federation space: DS9 screencap #1; DS9 screencap #2. There's no way Chin'toka can both be a Cardassian world as claimed in the show and have AR-558 located in the same system.
Going off the new STO Alpha Quadrant map, it's conceivable that the Cardassians controlled significant portions of the Mizar and Denobula sectors. Actually, in my headcanon, the Cardassians and the Denobulans are distant relatives...
Author, "Facing the Past" and "Stepping Over the Line" (a duology), "Venus Unveiled", "Worlds of the Federation", and "Alliances and Alignments"
Member, Shadowbroker
Not linear
Any chance of a Betazed orbit map? I'd be happy even if it's not functional just to sit my ship in that map and pretend to be visiting home... if not of course I will just sit there in sector space and pretend to be in orbit
there is an ancient unmarked battle zone off of kdf space that does this. fed and kdf aligned players fight borg and each other (mainly the borg though).
its actually quite fun, I wish it was marked though, I can never remember which system its in.
Since after 6 years Cryptic finally starts to 'revamp' the 3D Astrometics chart map we used to fly in to give us a 'feeling' of real space, transforming it into one giant space block, will we get any open world pvp any time soon?
Or... did I miss anything? What else would this revamp be useful for?
Seems like sector space was nothing more than a 'instance' world with different movement parameters.
I guess it was more made for the RPers out there I guess. I thought this used to be an MMO. lol
whatever the maximize size is for a star expand the diameter beyond the stars boundary by say 15%. when this extended boundary is approached have a players ship divert its path to nav around the sun. As it is now, you just fly right into the sun (not a good idea unless you are trying to ensure a loved one makes to the klingon afterlife or time travel).
Actually, inertia was a thing in Sector Space long before this update - My Kumari could slow from 50 to 47ish LY's pretty easily, but for my Bortasqu', I needed to turn off max warp at 90 LY before he stopped just inside 40
My Bort never overshoots systems on Holodeck. Therefore and because it's working just fine in Alpha, it has to be a bug.
And why would inertia be a thing during warp travel? The way i understand the concept, the ship itself isn't moving.
And why would inertia be a thing during warp travel? The way i understand the concept, the ship itself isn't moving.
Warp theory in reality and warp travel in ST are slightly different, in terms of RL the ship wouldn't move and you would effectively bend space-time around it, in ST warp travel involves effectively sliding along subspace, the higher your warp factor the deeper into subspace you go and the less you're in real space.
You can't get to warp ten through conventional warp travel techniques because you dig yourself into a rut (like spinning car wheels in wet mud) and as such you come to a halt and are effectively everywhere and nowhere at once and if you were to drop out of warp you would appear wherever it is you reached the warp ten barrier.
That said however, I would suggest what the poster is experiencing with the Bort is a bug in the rate of slow down rather than inertia.
While visiting Defera in the Alpha Quadrant I noticed that the UI element, usually found above/below the "Enable Astrometrics" button, used for contacting Ambassador Surah to access his daily missions is missing. Speaking of which, I guess the Breen patrol ship will travel from Breen to Kelvani Belt when that's been added back in, or would a route to and from Zaria and Kelvani Belt make more sense?
Also, the Ferengi ship at Vlugta Asteroid Field is oversized compared to the player ship, in this case my Nebula-class.
-=Post March 6th update=-
I have to say, I'm really digging the regional/factional astrometrics colorations - even the small touches like the difference between Tal Shiar and Romulan Republic space. Thank you for adding them! (Looking forward to the Delta Quadrant getting some eventually as well!)
That said, the Borg-controlled Sectors still don't feel nearly as.. intimidating.. as Gamma Orionis currently does on Holodeck. I don't know if it's the "meh" jaundice yellow-green grid, or the lack of foreboding music and cubes flying around everywhere..
Also, the Borg Red Alerts.. honestly.. feel more like shooting galleries than.. "Red Alerts". Perhaps this is more of a level-scaling issue though - I noticed their Tachyon Beams aren't nearly as brutal as they are on Holodeck.
-=Post March 6th update=-
I have to say, I'm really digging the regional/factional astrometrics colorations - even the small touches like the difference between Tal Shiar and Romulan Republic space. Thank you for adding them! (Looking forward to the Delta Quadrant getting some eventually as well!)
Seconded -- although I definitely think the coloration is off in the vicinity of Bajor, Trill, and Betazed. It should be Federation blue in those areas, not Cardassian orange. The Khitomer, Narendra, and H'atoria sectors should also be Klingon red.
Author, "Facing the Past" and "Stepping Over the Line" (a duology), "Venus Unveiled", "Worlds of the Federation", and "Alliances and Alignments"
Member, Shadowbroker
Not linear
With the disclaimer that the sector space revamp is not final yet, I have seen a couple of things I would suggest modifying. for starters, I would add an auto navigation point to the edge of the alpha and beta quadrants the way current sectors have points you can set automatic courses to in order to change sectors.
I would also suggest changing how the red alerts handle returning players to sector space. With the demolition of the sector space walls, it is now possible to get a borg red alert literally from the other side of the quadrant. Right now, the alerts dump you out into the quadrant where the alert takes place. In my last time on tribble, that put me on the opposite side of the beta quadrant from where I was going. I would suggest either automatically returning players to where they were before the red alert was accepted or at a minimum, give players the option to return; especially since you have no idea what quadrant the alert is in now.
On the subject of the borg red alerts, you may want to edit the mission success text to remove the reference to the command ship since we apparently no longer face one. Speaking of the command ships, are those accolades just gone now?
BOff contacts (e.g., warp to next Quadrant, navigation info, red alert notifications) are erroneously displayed with a viewscreen frame (although they are supposed to be on your own bridge) and without or the wrong bridge background (Galaxy-style and not Origin style for FED).
Auto-navigating to several systems puts you almost on the star's surface and/or nowhere near the actual system-access point (if there is one): Zemet System, Omicron Kappa System, Sibiran System, Cestus System, Hotep System, and probably numerous more...
AR-558: Unfortunately you repeated an error from the Star Chart. Ar-558 is clearly stated to be a planetoid within the Chin'Toka System. Due to an erroneous background graphic that was visible for a brief moment in a DS9 episode, the Star Charts made a separate system several lightyears "north" of Chin'Toka out of it. It is a known error of the book (info from barely visible background props should always be overwritten by spoken dialogue) and should not be repeated in STO^^
Omicron Kappa System: It is mislabeled as "Omicron Kappa II System" in sector space.
Lamdba Bootis: Typo alert; it should read "Lambda Bo
The Malon System could be renamed for Blue Horizon, the planet mentioned in DS9 as Gideon Seyetik's crowning achievement in terraforming. Sisko mentioned that he visited there on his way from Earth to Bajor.
Author, "Facing the Past" and "Stepping Over the Line" (a duology), "Venus Unveiled", "Worlds of the Federation", and "Alliances and Alignments"
Member, Shadowbroker
Not linear
Just an FYI - started a Rom character on Tribble to check out the new Sector space. At the end of the 'Explore the Flotilla' mission, you have to head to sector space. It lets you head to sector space, but the mission does not complete like normal.
I submitted a ticket in support of this mission bug.
But sector space sure is big. I flew from the flotilla to Drozana Station and it took a lot longer than I thought it would. Granted I was in my starter warbird, but if I were to do that trip on live it still would have taken a lot longer.
All in all, it looks pretty cool with the planetary systems and such.
jb
FYI-Bug has been corrected in latest build. Thanks guys!!!
i continue to be unimpressed with the upgrade to sector space, after having some time to explore and update tribble;
1. the draw distance has not changed, it is still frustratingly small area of view. the only way i know i am going anywhere are the dark long distance objects like nebula, rocks and other features not planetary systems like.
2. the distance to my ship in sector space is still limited, i would still like to have the ability to draw back a little more so i can see more when flying around.
3. the turn rate could do with an increase, it drives worse then a tarmac roller attempting to corner at a reasonable speed, reasonable being driving limits in towns and cities, usually 30-40mph..
4. the suns suddenly expanding on you within 2km, im beginning to hate that.
5. the bloom intensity is all wrong, even scanning a meteor, the scanning beams are showing a bright blue and far more vibrant than usual and a lot more contrasting then it should.
6. the dyson sphere sector and the delta quadrant sectors have not been touched, rather sloppy work so far to change one part and leave the last bit untouched.
7. the sectors feel so empty and barren, adding some npcs would be nice in getting some form of civilization running through the quadrants.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Remarks (other than the known compromise with Vega.):
We need a big "Alpha" and "Beta" on the Area Maps of the opposite name (i.e., right and left of the map) to make clickable course plotting to the Quadrant borders easier.
There is currently no 'arrow' to allow you to 'auto-set' a course from quadrant-to-quadrant. I know you can just point your ship in the general direction, but it would nice to have that for players who are used to clicking the arrows on the map edges currently. Any system in-place on the map for the sector-to-sector transitions should be in place for quadrant-to-quadrant transitions.
There is currently no 'arrow' to allow you to 'auto-set' a course from quadrant-to-quadrant. I know you can just point your ship in the general direction, but it would nice to have that for players who are used to clicking the arrows on the map edges currently. Any system in-place on the map for the sector-to-sector transitions should be in place for quadrant-to-quadrant transitions.
Just my $.02.
jb
Taco did already say they will be adding those back in. They just haven't gotten around to it yet.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Comments
When it comes to discrepancies between background graphics seen on-screen and real dialogue, the latter should always be given precedence. There are a few other instances like that, e.g., Starbase 23 <--> 24 in TNG: "Sins of the Father".
STOWiki admin.
I was pointing out that even people who worked on the show also got it wrong from time to time. Quark clearly indicated in dialogue that AR-558 was in the Chin'toka system, and Weyoun mentioned the planet being Cardassian. The location on the okudagram places the the relay station and the system in a location far from Cardassian borders. Chin'toka is meant to be within the boundries of Cardassian space. The Star Charts book causes issues with itself since it lists Chin'toka as a separate system "southeast" of DS9 between the McAllister C-5 nebula and the Federation border, clearly the author of the book took the okudagram as the proper location of the relay, since it also reproduces the same diagram in the book itself, without checking what was mentioned on screen.
Now, 2D maps don't really help in determining an actual location in 3D space, however from STO's perspective we're ostensibly dealing with a "2D world", so it'd be better to have AR-558 renamed to Chin'toka system and moved to Cardassian space near Betazed, with reference to AR-558 and the relay station added to the info box that pops up when near the system.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Agreed. Dialogue should win.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
In other words, not really any different from the numerous Joint Command operatives we already deal with for orders - but in this case, doing anything unnecessary might alert the Borg to their location, which would then compromise their base of operations
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
you can reduce this a bit by backing down (using reverse). not by much, but it helps.
but isn't it useful as a way station for players traveling through there to be able to access banks and other services? its basically a "station" out there now. if anything, its more useful now as a way station than it ever was as a gateway into borg space.
---
might it be possible for the systems to use the elevation a bit? some systems at the bottom or the top of the sector space region?
this might also need the autonav feature to be improved, in the past, the feature has proven ignorant of the need to change "altitude" to get to a system.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Going off the new STO Alpha Quadrant map, it's conceivable that the Cardassians controlled significant portions of the Mizar and Denobula sectors. Actually, in my headcanon, the Cardassians and the Denobulans are distant relatives...
Member, Shadowbroker
Not linear
Aww..no PvPvE??
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
there is an ancient unmarked battle zone off of kdf space that does this. fed and kdf aligned players fight borg and each other (mainly the borg though).
its actually quite fun, I wish it was marked though, I can never remember which system its in.
Or... did I miss anything? What else would this revamp be useful for?
Seems like sector space was nothing more than a 'instance' world with different movement parameters.
I guess it was more made for the RPers out there I guess. I thought this used to be an MMO. lol
whatever the maximize size is for a star expand the diameter beyond the stars boundary by say 15%. when this extended boundary is approached have a players ship divert its path to nav around the sun. As it is now, you just fly right into the sun (not a good idea unless you are trying to ensure a loved one makes to the klingon afterlife or time travel).
The sun needs to be small... too big...
the ZOOM or CAMERA needs to be fix... I barely see my ship
And why would inertia be a thing during warp travel? The way i understand the concept, the ship itself isn't moving.
Warp theory in reality and warp travel in ST are slightly different, in terms of RL the ship wouldn't move and you would effectively bend space-time around it, in ST warp travel involves effectively sliding along subspace, the higher your warp factor the deeper into subspace you go and the less you're in real space.
You can't get to warp ten through conventional warp travel techniques because you dig yourself into a rut (like spinning car wheels in wet mud) and as such you come to a halt and are effectively everywhere and nowhere at once and if you were to drop out of warp you would appear wherever it is you reached the warp ten barrier.
That said however, I would suggest what the poster is experiencing with the Bort is a bug in the rate of slow down rather than inertia.
Also, the Ferengi ship at Vlugta Asteroid Field is oversized compared to the player ship, in this case my Nebula-class.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
I have to say, I'm really digging the regional/factional astrometrics colorations - even the small touches like the difference between Tal Shiar and Romulan Republic space. Thank you for adding them! (Looking forward to the Delta Quadrant getting some eventually as well!)
That said, the Borg-controlled Sectors still don't feel nearly as.. intimidating.. as Gamma Orionis currently does on Holodeck. I don't know if it's the "meh" jaundice yellow-green grid, or the lack of foreboding music and cubes flying around everywhere..
Also, the Borg Red Alerts.. honestly.. feel more like shooting galleries than.. "Red Alerts". Perhaps this is more of a level-scaling issue though - I noticed their Tachyon Beams aren't nearly as brutal as they are on Holodeck.
Seconded -- although I definitely think the coloration is off in the vicinity of Bajor, Trill, and Betazed. It should be Federation blue in those areas, not Cardassian orange. The Khitomer, Narendra, and H'atoria sectors should also be Klingon red.
Member, Shadowbroker
Not linear
I would also suggest changing how the red alerts handle returning players to sector space. With the demolition of the sector space walls, it is now possible to get a borg red alert literally from the other side of the quadrant. Right now, the alerts dump you out into the quadrant where the alert takes place. In my last time on tribble, that put me on the opposite side of the beta quadrant from where I was going. I would suggest either automatically returning players to where they were before the red alert was accepted or at a minimum, give players the option to return; especially since you have no idea what quadrant the alert is in now.
On the subject of the borg red alerts, you may want to edit the mission success text to remove the reference to the command ship since we apparently no longer face one. Speaking of the command ships, are those accolades just gone now?
Bugs/Errors:
STOWiki admin.
Member, Shadowbroker
Not linear
The description text for the system takes this into account and specifically mentions the existence of other systems of the same name.
STOWiki admin.
I submitted a ticket in support of this mission bug.
But sector space sure is big. I flew from the flotilla to Drozana Station and it took a lot longer than I thought it would. Granted I was in my starter warbird, but if I were to do that trip on live it still would have taken a lot longer.
All in all, it looks pretty cool with the planetary systems and such.
jb
FYI-Bug has been corrected in latest build. Thanks guys!!!
1. the draw distance has not changed, it is still frustratingly small area of view. the only way i know i am going anywhere are the dark long distance objects like nebula, rocks and other features not planetary systems like.
2. the distance to my ship in sector space is still limited, i would still like to have the ability to draw back a little more so i can see more when flying around.
3. the turn rate could do with an increase, it drives worse then a tarmac roller attempting to corner at a reasonable speed, reasonable being driving limits in towns and cities, usually 30-40mph..
4. the suns suddenly expanding on you within 2km, im beginning to hate that.
5. the bloom intensity is all wrong, even scanning a meteor, the scanning beams are showing a bright blue and far more vibrant than usual and a lot more contrasting then it should.
6. the dyson sphere sector and the delta quadrant sectors have not been touched, rather sloppy work so far to change one part and leave the last bit untouched.
7. the sectors feel so empty and barren, adding some npcs would be nice in getting some form of civilization running through the quadrants.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
There is currently no 'arrow' to allow you to 'auto-set' a course from quadrant-to-quadrant. I know you can just point your ship in the general direction, but it would nice to have that for players who are used to clicking the arrows on the map edges currently. Any system in-place on the map for the sector-to-sector transitions should be in place for quadrant-to-quadrant transitions.
Just my $.02.
jb
Taco did already say they will be adding those back in. They just haven't gotten around to it yet.