in 2357, the uss galaxy was only technically space worthy, the class was developed wile the first examples were built over 20 years or so. it took so long to build them because the galaxy wasn't using on the shelf tech, like the nebula was. thats why the nebula class was actually launched in the late 2350, and the galaxy class was not. in the intervening years, the uss galaxy was a work in progress test bed wile it's tech was being developed at the same time. the uss galaxy wasn't actually completed or fit for duty until 2363 like the rest of the originals.
No. Check again (I'm reading out of the tech manual too). The Galaxy was declared Deep Space worthy and commissioned in 2357 The Enterprise was still in orbit of Pluto receiving system updates and feedback from the Galaxy on her shakedown cruise and first missions.
But they were fielding her long before Enterprise, which had a lot of problems in construction, was launched.
And of course you're right, they packed a 20 year bleeding age development project into constructing the Galaxy class....all the more reason they're not gonna mothball her before her time.
its likely the USS sovereign, and every other first of their class, was out flying around in the years before being official launched too, running the same kind of trials and tests. that doesn't mean the class was launched at that time though.
you saw the excelsior with an NX prefix in development limbo for at least 4 years before it actually got put into service. the ship, and the class, wasn't officially launched until they gave it to sulu.
I've already said that I put the Negh'var against the Sovereign as far as placement and generation, if you're saying the Sovereign was out flying around for years before the Enterprise-D launched in 2372, then that only agrees with my statement that the Klingons saw a new battlecruiser or had data from Starfleet's projects and stepped their game up.
The Excelsior is an even more special case than the Galaxy class. They were creating whole cloth an entirely knew propulsion technology. The problem wasn't issues with the spaceframe, computers, weapons, or any other conventional technology. They just couldn't get the Transwarp to work right. That's saying nothing about Scotty's sabotage (or if you believe another story that if he hadn't sabotaged it, the Excelsior would've blown up due to an engine design flaw).
i have been of the opinion, that the Nebula-class was the true successor to the Ambassador. The Nebula was depicted as a very powerful ship and given that the Phoenix easily destroyed a number of Cardassian ships in The Wounded. The number of Nebulas seen were in similar mission profiles to the Constitution.
The Galaxy was built as a flagship. The main bridge was the flag bridge while the battle bridge was the true bridge. However, two ships, the Yamato and the Enterprise, were both configured as diplomatic/explorers. The other Galaxies seen, the Odyssey and Hansen's flagship at Wolf 359 had more bridges similar to the battle bridge (they used the battle bridge sets).
You know I always thought of the Nebula as the Miranda's successor. In the same way that it used the components of the Galaxy/Sovereign in a smaller configuration and could be reconfigured by its upper pod for different mission profiles. The smaller more modular ship to the all in one super ship.
Just that by default since the base ship, the Galaxy was so much bigger than the Constitution, the Nebula ended up bigger.
As for the Battle Bridges, when they dropped the new ship Endeavor that Eaves designed, as I understand it Hansen was on a Galaxy, and was in the Battle Bridge. And if I were Keogh I would command the Odyssey from the battle bridge too, the main bridge was too exposed. But. I think that was the main bridge. While the Enterprise-D has the expansive bridge but keep in mind the Battle Bridge set was also used for the Excelsior under Sulu's command. The Odyssey's bridge had the Cobra behind the Captain's chair. It's a visual cue I saw, but to me, on the E-D, Worf's console was representative of the saucer, the support behind Picard's chair was the neck, and Troi and Riker's Computer consoles were either the warp nacelles or the saucer impulse engines with the Conn and Ops consoles being the nacelles. So that visual cue strikes me with that Cobra shape appearing behind Keogh's captain's chair...a feature not present on the battle bridge.
would depend on the intention of the respective refit i would guess
A refit that keeps the any mission profile for the galaxy vs a wartime refit that focuses on tactical systems
Like the Dominion War refits of the Galaxies with the phaser banks on the nacelles.
and i guess the maximum power rating for their respective warpcores would probably be a big deciding factor as to their combat ability, no idea which has the edge though
As I understand it the Sovereign like the Defiant benefited from a multiple matter stream (matter and antimatter feeds) warp core, 4 for the Defiant and 8 for the Sovereign. So I would imagine it comfortably outpowers the single stream Class 6 core on the Galaxy.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Why is there a T5 Excelsior? That hunk of junk's twice as old as the GCS and was getting blown out of the sky left and right during the Dominion War, whereas Starfleet never lost a single GCS on-screen after the Odyssey. And the Kumari and Narcine date back to the 2150s.
If Cryptic had ever actually used any logic in their ship selections for this game you'd have a leg to stand on.
Yeah these people talking trash about the Galaxy being to old seem fine with the Excelsior. I say fly whatever ship you like and ignore everyone else.
Not really. If a Galaxy and a Sovereign were upgraded at the same time - say 15 years after the Sov was released - they would receive an identical level of tech. So with new shields, new warp cores, upgraded phasers...
I would say the Galaxy would be the more durable, more independent vessel. The Sovereign would have the edge in firepower and probably speed - though that's iffy because in canon we never hear of a Sovereign's maximum speed. The highest we ever hear is warp 8.something.
The Sovereign has a slightly taller warp core but overall both are around the same size.
Granted upgrades at the same time both cores would probably output similar energy...again depending on crew to align and make adjustments.
the core of the galaxy goes through 12 decks the MSD on the bridge and tech manual agree with this mainly because of the deuterium tanks sit right above it
the core of the sov is 12.5 decks. mainly to how the MCS caps are drawn on the MSD the tubes going tot he reactor and the reactor are the same length at 10 decks
i have no issue seeing a sov core physically fitting in a later refitted galaxy so the core difference is mute by 2409
As I understand it the Sovereign like the Defiant benefited from a multiple matter stream (matter and antimatter feeds) warp core, 4 for the Defiant and 8 for the Sovereign. So I would imagine it comfortably outpowers the single stream Class 6 core on the Galaxy.
Makes sense, I guess the question then would be
How hard it would be to remove and rebuild a newer core into the existing hull
If that turns out to be an extensive and costly job, then that might be upper limit of the ships usefulness as a "ship of the line" ( i know thats an outdated term but seemed appropriate)
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
that is true think the core was upgraded 4 times in the series one of those times was when it was hijacked by the binar when they where also updating the computer
thought it said it was a scheduled part of the upgrade during the captain log intro. it can be scheduled with out actually being removed at the time of hijacking
and the crew was evacuated form the ship because the binars triggered and fake containment breach. ship still had a skeleton crew before then
but i could very well be wrong the first few seasons kind of merge together for me on TNG
its debatable if how tall a core is even maters. the reaction occurs in the center, in the dilithium chamber, whats the rest of it really for? ships like the miranda couldn't have a core more then 4 decks tall, wile the constitution, if you look at a MDS, has a core that goes right up its neck! https://lcarsgfx.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/proxima-msd-lrg_blg.png its 15 decks tall by my count.
my theory is, ships that expect to travel possibly months at warp do better with tall cores for insert reason here, wile ships that operate inside boarders on short range missions don't really get anything out of decks and decks of big glowing deuterium and anti deuterium injectors. that would explain the difference between the core on a dedicated explorer connie refit, and the core on the within border operations miranda class.
its debatable if how tall a core is even maters. the reaction occurs in the center, in the dilithium chamber, whats the rest of it really for? ships like the miranda couldn't have a core more then 4 decks tall, wile the constitution, if you look at a MDS, has a core that goes right up its neck! https://lcarsgfx.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/proxima-msd-lrg_blg.png its 15 decks tall by my count.
my theory is, ships that expect to travel possibly months at warp do better with tall cores for insert reason here, wile ships that operate inside boarders on short range missions don't really get anything out of decks and decks of big glowing deuterium and anti deuterium injectors. that would explain the difference between the core on a dedicated explorer connie refit, and the core on the within border operations miranda class.
Weren't the original Consitution warp cores horizontal? Wasn't that what the red hallway behind the fence was in TOS? As to how tall/long a core has to be - I don't think it has anything to do how powerful the ship is, but it could be something along the lines of more controlled feeding of antimatter and Deuterium. Though the warp core is something that's never been propertly technobabbled. All we know about them is it's a 1:1 matter/antimatter mixture, dilithium is required, and they go boom if you look at them funny.
Well the problem with negligible length of a warp core means that a Miranda and Defiant can have more advanced and powerful warp cores than a Galaxy or Sovereign.
That's something I don't buy into without a way better explanation. If length didn't have something to do with it then why have warp cores over 10 stories tall? Purely a safety reason? Then why so short on other ships that we're sure are inferior power wise?
think about how much power it must take to propel one of these ships to warp speed, and then thousands of times faster then that. apparently, we could in theory propel a craft to practically c now, but it would need a fuel tank the size of jupiter, that had no added mass.
im pretty sure warp core size depends on how high the ship's top warp factor is more than anything else. running the rest of the ship, even in combat, it probably like running a lightbulb by comparisons. in nemesis, the impulse fusion reactors were able to run the E-E at full combat capacity in that battle. sure it ended up draining their entire deuterium supply in record time, a M/AM reaction is an order of magnitude more fuel efficient and powerful, but still the fusion reactors were enough.
asking which ship has the most powerful warp core is the wrong question, thats likely the same thing as asking whats the top sprint speed of a ship and how long they can maintain it. a better question is, how good is a ships EPS system, how much power can it pump into any system, how much power can each of these systems even use. these would be the limiting factors on performance. its why some ship probably have split up arrays for seemingly no reason, it's EPS system couldn't support the power draw of full array discharges of longer arrays with an acceptable fireing rate.
^ The Galaxy and the Defiant both have the same stock Warp 9.6 top speed so that's not it either.
As for swapping out Cores. After the Constitution refit and the introduction of the vertical shaft warp cores, I would imagine that M/ARA upgrades became a much simpler ordeal. I mean they can eject the core in under five seconds. The core is technically floating in the ship anyway. Remove the outer hull plate, open the door, pull it out, insert the new one. It's the starship equivalent of swapping out a giant USB card. It can probably be done in a day.
In fact comparing it to this game, it would be FAR simpler to switch out a warp core than to switch out a shield grid, which basically means replacing most of the underlying skin on a ship.
The Main Deflector is similar to a warp core, unhook everything and pull it out of the front, like a DVD drive.
that is true think the core was upgraded 4 times in the series one of those times was when it was hijacked by the binar when they where also updating the computer
The Bynar was a computer core upgrade.
The major one was the one that was sabotaged. The Drumhead, remember crazy old Judge Admiral Norah Satie? So there are at least two in that episode, the core upgrade that facilitated the accident, and the core replacement that repaired it.
its debatable if how tall a core is even maters. the reaction occurs in the center, in the dilithium chamber, whats the rest of it really for? ships like the miranda couldn't have a core more then 4 decks tall, wile the constitution, if you look at a MDS, has a core that goes right up its neck! https://lcarsgfx.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/proxima-msd-lrg_blg.png its 15 decks tall by my count.
Unless the momentum of the matter is a factor, like a particle accelerator, smashing the matter into the antimatter at relativistic speeds. And you get more acceleration with a longer core.
I would think that that energy would be negligible compared to the actual M/A reaction though otherwise the Hadron Collider would be an incredible power source.
Daystrom Institute Technical Library posits that it's a factor of precision aiming allowing for maximum efficiency, since small atoms can be difficult to force into a straight line even with powerful magnets. Longer cores thus have better aim.
And let's not even talk about how the Intrepid's class 9 core works, because I don't know what's going on in that thing visually.
my theory is, ships that expect to travel possibly months at warp do better with tall cores for insert reason here, wile ships that operate inside boarders on short range missions don't really get anything out of decks and decks of big glowing deuterium and anti deuterium injectors. that would explain the difference between the core on a dedicated explorer connie refit, and the core on the within border operations miranda class.
I think that the Defiant got that tiny core because they wanted to make a ship with a small cross section that was harder to hit and easier to mass produce because of its size. The multiple stream warp core, while definitely planned in advance (as per the tech manual and I think Galaxy's Child) is perfect to get such a small ship a LOT of power that it wouldn't otherwise have. On the other hand due to its small size and the fact that it would be using four times as much fuel at once the Defiant's range is likewise shortened.
Weren't the original Consitution warp cores horizontal? Wasn't that what the red hallway behind the fence was in TOS? As to how tall/long a core has to be - I don't think it has anything to do how powerful the ship is, but it could be something along the lines of more controlled feeding of antimatter and Deuterium. Though the warp core is something that's never been propertly technobabbled. All we know about them is it's a 1:1 matter/antimatter mixture, dilithium is required, and they go boom if you look at them funny.
Yep. As did the NX class. Funny that until Enterprise we never really saw the Connie's core at all, since it's under the deck in OG Engineering.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
^ The Galaxy and the Defiant both have the same stock Warp 9.6 top speed so that's not it either.
Actually - this is wrong. The Defiant can cruise at warp 9 - but has trouble passed 9.5. In the Sound of Her Voice - they have to completely disarm the weapons to use all power for the SIF. Granted this flaw might have - and probably was - corrected in later models, but the Prototype had problems with high sustained warp.
Granted - the DS9 Tech manual says the Defiant can pull 9.97 for 12 hours, but we never seen anywhere near this capability in the show. So we're back to the whole point of this thread. What is the ships real capability? What we see on screen or what was written in a manual based on the series bible?
Actually - this is wrong. The Defiant can cruise at warp 9 - but has trouble passed 9.5. In the Sound of Her Voice - they have to completely disarm the weapons to use all power for the SIF. Granted this flaw might have - and probably was - corrected in later models, but the Prototype had problems with high sustained warp.
Granted - the DS9 Tech manual says the Defiant can pull 9.97 for 12 hours, but we never seen anywhere near this capability in the show. So we're back to the whole point of this thread. What is the ships real capability? What we see on screen or what was written in a manual based on the series bible?
the stats in the ds9 tech manual are a joke. most of them are obvious copy/paste errors.
Actually - this is wrong. The Defiant can cruise at warp 9 - but has trouble passed 9.5. In the Sound of Her Voice - they have to completely disarm the weapons to use all power for the SIF. Granted this flaw might have - and probably was - corrected in later models, but the Prototype had problems with high sustained warp.
Granted - the DS9 Tech manual says the Defiant can pull 9.97 for 12 hours, but we never seen anywhere near this capability in the show. So we're back to the whole point of this thread. What is the ships real capability? What we see on screen or what was written in a manual based on the series bible?
yup that was part of the problem that mothballed the defiant too much power for the ship it;s size sisko even said in it's premiere episode that it;s warp engines are so powerful it was ripping the ship a part
o'brian and sisko did fix this later but a set speed was never mentioned on screen the tech manual only gives a theoretical top speed cruise of 9.8 and i have the second printing revised version that came out after the show (even talks about the war galaxies the manuals words)
nothing about the defiant int he tech manual was in the bible as the defiant did not exist until season 4 and shows only make a bible for the most part int he beginning. i have the DS9 bible and it's NOTHING like the show it's like they completely ignored it after episode 5
the TNG bible is the only one that looks like the writers followed and gave a TRIBBLE about which i think had to do with gene he was particular on his canon even flat out disregarding episodes of never happening if he did not like them
Actually - this is wrong. The Defiant can cruise at warp 9 - but has trouble passed 9.5. In the Sound of Her Voice - they have to completely disarm the weapons to use all power for the SIF. Granted this flaw might have - and probably was - corrected in later models, but the Prototype had problems with high sustained warp.
I specifically said, Top as in Maximum speed which is different from cruising speed, which as I understand it is defined as the highest velocity the ship can maintain essentially indefinitely.
I would imagine that O'Brien and Sisko's solution became the standard especially since the Defiant class appears to have gone into production afterwards.
Oh...might I take a moment to bask in just how awesome "The Sound of Her Voice" was. As much as I loved her on MAD TV, I fell in love with Debra Wilson all over again, just by the sound of her voice.
Granted - the DS9 Tech manual says the Defiant can pull 9.97 for 12 hours, but we never seen anywhere near this capability in the show. So we're back to the whole point of this thread. What is the ships real capability? What we see on screen or what was written in a manual based on the series bible?
I've got that tech manual too. It has plenty of discrepancies. The rule however is what's on screen always takes precedent. That's the hard rule only murky around the animated series which is steadily becoming more canon, especially around its better episodes, and other horrendous blunders like Threshold with the writers themselves, and These Are the Voyages, which most fans I know have thrown into the trash except for the last thirty seconds or so.
yup that was part of the problem that mothballed the defiant too much power for the ship it;s size sisko even said in it's premiere episode that it;s warp engines are so powerful it was ripping the ship a part
o'brian and sisko did fix this later but a set speed was never mentioned on screen the tech manual only gives a theoretical top speed cruise of 9.8 and i have the second printing revised version that came out after the show (even talks about the war galaxies the manuals words)
The Defiant's engine always seemed too powerful for a ship that size, that's why I personally give it credit in fights with ships above its weight class to a degree. Less ship and more power and those boss phaser cannons. The shunting the extra power into the SIF boosting the ship's hardness was genius of course.
I also want to point out that I appreciate the call forward on Enterprise, when Trip and Reed shunted the extra power from the Phase Cannons into the Polarized Hull Plating, meaning that when the weapons are firing, they got a boost to their armor...which is a very STO Tac thing to do.
I do wish that they had stated the Defiant and Sovereign's top speeds on the show...small details like that do matter.
nothing about the defiant int he tech manual was in the bible as the defiant did not exist until season 4 and shows only make a bible for the most part int he beginning. i have the DS9 bible and it's NOTHING like the show it's like they completely ignored it after episode 5
the TNG bible is the only one that looks like the writers followed and gave a TRIBBLE about which i think had to do with gene he was particular on his canon even flat out disregarding episodes of never happening if he did not like them
I can forgive that to a degree. By the time of Way of the Warrior, Deep Space Nine was VASTLY upgraded from that crappy station that Sisko found O'Brien trying to get the replicators working in Emissary.
But Gene wasright in that.
I've gotten into arguments with people about Star Trek and real world understood physics and all that TRIBBLE, but they ignore something that the TNG tech manual/bible and writers understood more than DS9 and ESPECIALLY Voyager's did.
The Supreme Value of internal consistency. If there is one thing that Mass Effect showed me in beautiful vivid color is just how strong a universe and the storytelling therein is when supported by a solid underlying foundation, in this case, the science that the fiction is built on. Or rather the Fictional Science the fiction is built on. You then play the game within the rules. It improves the story telling instead of limiting it. And when you introduce something that breaks those rules it has to be pointed out and then that becomes your explore strange new worlds mystery.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
DS9 got away with ignore the bible becuase the writers actually cared. same witht eh FX guys and the producers. they would talk with each other ask if this is correct is this ship able to be in the shis scene ect, ect
voyagers writers on the other hand did not seem to care at all and just wanted to make money and get it done. the DS9 crew just seemed to actually be interested in what was going on the FX guys put a name and registry on every single CGI ship even if you can not read it and would actually tell you what ship was where. this si how we knwo the galaxy was the one that was hit by the orbital and it was repaired sense it appeared later on and how we know there was 14 different galaxy class ships during the war and that the galaxy class ships where the fighter carriers and command ships.
bashir being a changeling was also thought up and planned way in advance it was planned out a full season before it was revealed it was not a surprise internally and for this stuff was able to be added that made the reveal that much better as you could go back and go "oh that's why he did that!"
the behind the scenes of voyager just is so depressing in comparison:(
Well new command ships the Fed ones look pretty, No Tier 6 Galaxy yet thou, However how about a Tier 6 Venture from the Zen-Store
if a tier 6 galaxy ever happens, likely with a command hybrid LT, it will probably be soonish, just like the intrepid was released soon after DR and the intel ships. i don't see an interior pack for it though, unless they somehow got levar burton, and the USS challenger is in space dock for a reason. who knows. question is, would i even be tempted to start playing again, if it became available? doubt it, i wouldn't even be able to use command skill until i ground out 10 levels of the stupid specialization.
i haven't logged since the day command specialization was announced, but someone said the challenger, Geordi's galaxy, was in there. dude could totally be lieing though lol
i haven't logged since the day command specialization was announced, but someone said the challenger, Geordi's galaxy, was in there. dude could totally be lieing though lol
The Challenger is indeed flying around Earth and ESD. It is listed outside Quinn's office.
Yeah, Challenger is in Space Dock. If you're facing the window - it's to the right towards the 'curve'. You can see the engineering hull and nacelles. Also if you go to the Admiral's office - his little chart shows what ships are docked inside, and it is Challenger.
DS9 got away with ignore the bible becuase the writers actually cared. same witht eh FX guys and the producers. they would talk with each other ask if this is correct is this ship able to be in the shis scene ect, ect
Absolutely DS9 was very strong with the internal consistency. Overall...or even more than that, living in the continuity. An advantage of their generally successful foray into serialization.
voyagers writers on the other hand did not seem to care at all and just wanted to make money and get it done.
The problem is that Braga pretty much lived by the rule of cool. He couldn't be bothered with technobabble and such because he felt, erroneously, that remembering what was established it was limiting. Like you say, if you don't care about the thing as a whole then things like that creep in. They abandoned the Maquis outsiders to create drama thing because it wasn't enough to carry a show seven seasons to begin with and at some point they HAD to start working together anyway otherwise both sides start looking stupid.
Voyager was an enforced explore strange new worlds premise. They were going to be traveling home so they had literally no choice but to run into all new never before seen species and technology every episode. While it sounds like a great premise for a Star Trek series, the fact is that in addition to exploration Star Trek is an attached universe and history, and it's hard to separate that, and that's basically what Voyager had to do. Be separate from all of the preceding Star Trek history. If they had also gone with a fully serialized take with Voyager basically being a flying DS9 with the crew functioning as the insanely huge supporting cast then it probably would've worked in any event. But part of their mission profile was get home which means keep moving and running into new things. They went full episodic and the underlying crew dynamics that would've held that together...suffered.
[/QUOTE]the DS9 crew just seemed to actually be interested in what was going on the FX guys put a name and registry on every single CGI ship even if you can not read it and would actually tell you what ship was where. this si how we knwo the galaxy was the one that was hit by the orbital and it was repaired sense it appeared later on and how we know there was 14 different galaxy class ships during the war and that the galaxy class ships where the fighter carriers and command ships.
bashir being a changeling was also thought up and planned way in advance it was planned out a full season before it was revealed it was not a surprise internally and for this stuff was able to be added that made the reveal that much better as you could go back and go "oh that's why he did that!"
the behind the scenes of voyager just is so depressing in comparison:([/QUOTE]
Agreed with everything except the Bashir bit.
Alexander Siddig, had NO clue. I doubt that it was planned a season in advance I've never heard or read that. It was a few episodes at most. But even when making **** up on the fly, they paid attention to detail, notice real Bashir's last season uniform.
if a tier 6 galaxy ever happens, likely with a command hybrid LT, it will probably be soonish, just like the intrepid was released soon after DR and the intel ships. i don't see an interior pack for it though, unless they somehow got levar burton, and the USS challenger is in space dock for a reason. who knows. question is, would i even be tempted to start playing again, if it became available? doubt it, i wouldn't even be able to use command skill until i ground out 10 levels of the stupid specialization.
Agreed and fingers crossed.
Levar Burton would definitely need to be part of the package by Cryptic's habits.
On the other hand, while the Reading Rainbow revival has taken off...I'm sure he can find some time between directing gigs to bring back one of Starfleet's greatest engineers.
The Challenger? You know they had a Galaxy parked in front of second Spacedock's engineering window for the longest time. I've scoped all the ships on the orbiting spacedock readout in front of Quinn's office, but I honestly can't say one way or another if the Challenger has been there the whole time. I want to say it was the Galaxy, which should get Starfleet's "Old Ironsides" award if any ship deserves it.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Don't get too excited about seeing Galaxy's docked in or around Spacedock ect, Cryptic have ignored our requests to give us proper upgrade for years, but have no shame in using the ships image for promotion and sales.
Comments
But they were fielding her long before Enterprise, which had a lot of problems in construction, was launched.
And of course you're right, they packed a 20 year bleeding age development project into constructing the Galaxy class....all the more reason they're not gonna mothball her before her time.
I've already said that I put the Negh'var against the Sovereign as far as placement and generation, if you're saying the Sovereign was out flying around for years before the Enterprise-D launched in 2372, then that only agrees with my statement that the Klingons saw a new battlecruiser or had data from Starfleet's projects and stepped their game up.
The Excelsior is an even more special case than the Galaxy class. They were creating whole cloth an entirely knew propulsion technology. The problem wasn't issues with the spaceframe, computers, weapons, or any other conventional technology. They just couldn't get the Transwarp to work right. That's saying nothing about Scotty's sabotage (or if you believe another story that if he hadn't sabotaged it, the Excelsior would've blown up due to an engine design flaw).
You know I always thought of the Nebula as the Miranda's successor. In the same way that it used the components of the Galaxy/Sovereign in a smaller configuration and could be reconfigured by its upper pod for different mission profiles. The smaller more modular ship to the all in one super ship.
Just that by default since the base ship, the Galaxy was so much bigger than the Constitution, the Nebula ended up bigger.
As for the Battle Bridges, when they dropped the new ship Endeavor that Eaves designed, as I understand it Hansen was on a Galaxy, and was in the Battle Bridge. And if I were Keogh I would command the Odyssey from the battle bridge too, the main bridge was too exposed. But. I think that was the main bridge. While the Enterprise-D has the expansive bridge but keep in mind the Battle Bridge set was also used for the Excelsior under Sulu's command. The Odyssey's bridge had the Cobra behind the Captain's chair. It's a visual cue I saw, but to me, on the E-D, Worf's console was representative of the saucer, the support behind Picard's chair was the neck, and Troi and Riker's Computer consoles were either the warp nacelles or the saucer impulse engines with the Conn and Ops consoles being the nacelles. So that visual cue strikes me with that Cobra shape appearing behind Keogh's captain's chair...a feature not present on the battle bridge.
Like the Dominion War refits of the Galaxies with the phaser banks on the nacelles.
As I understand it the Sovereign like the Defiant benefited from a multiple matter stream (matter and antimatter feeds) warp core, 4 for the Defiant and 8 for the Sovereign. So I would imagine it comfortably outpowers the single stream Class 6 core on the Galaxy.
Yeah these people talking trash about the Galaxy being to old seem fine with the Excelsior. I say fly whatever ship you like and ignore everyone else.
the core of the galaxy goes through 12 decks the MSD on the bridge and tech manual agree with this mainly because of the deuterium tanks sit right above it
the core of the sov is 12.5 decks. mainly to how the MCS caps are drawn on the MSD the tubes going tot he reactor and the reactor are the same length at 10 decks
i have no issue seeing a sov core physically fitting in a later refitted galaxy so the core difference is mute by 2409
Makes sense, I guess the question then would be
How hard it would be to remove and rebuild a newer core into the existing hull
If that turns out to be an extensive and costly job, then that might be upper limit of the ships usefulness as a "ship of the line" ( i know thats an outdated term but seemed appropriate)
and the crew was evacuated form the ship because the binars triggered and fake containment breach. ship still had a skeleton crew before then
but i could very well be wrong the first few seasons kind of merge together for me on TNG
my theory is, ships that expect to travel possibly months at warp do better with tall cores for insert reason here, wile ships that operate inside boarders on short range missions don't really get anything out of decks and decks of big glowing deuterium and anti deuterium injectors. that would explain the difference between the core on a dedicated explorer connie refit, and the core on the within border operations miranda class.
Weren't the original Consitution warp cores horizontal? Wasn't that what the red hallway behind the fence was in TOS? As to how tall/long a core has to be - I don't think it has anything to do how powerful the ship is, but it could be something along the lines of more controlled feeding of antimatter and Deuterium. Though the warp core is something that's never been propertly technobabbled. All we know about them is it's a 1:1 matter/antimatter mixture, dilithium is required, and they go boom if you look at them funny.
The pre-refit Connie, I mean.
Yeah - the pre-refit Connie had a horizontal core. https://trekazoid.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/constitution-cutaway.jpg
think about how much power it must take to propel one of these ships to warp speed, and then thousands of times faster then that. apparently, we could in theory propel a craft to practically c now, but it would need a fuel tank the size of jupiter, that had no added mass.
im pretty sure warp core size depends on how high the ship's top warp factor is more than anything else. running the rest of the ship, even in combat, it probably like running a lightbulb by comparisons. in nemesis, the impulse fusion reactors were able to run the E-E at full combat capacity in that battle. sure it ended up draining their entire deuterium supply in record time, a M/AM reaction is an order of magnitude more fuel efficient and powerful, but still the fusion reactors were enough.
asking which ship has the most powerful warp core is the wrong question, thats likely the same thing as asking whats the top sprint speed of a ship and how long they can maintain it. a better question is, how good is a ships EPS system, how much power can it pump into any system, how much power can each of these systems even use. these would be the limiting factors on performance. its why some ship probably have split up arrays for seemingly no reason, it's EPS system couldn't support the power draw of full array discharges of longer arrays with an acceptable fireing rate.
As for swapping out Cores. After the Constitution refit and the introduction of the vertical shaft warp cores, I would imagine that M/ARA upgrades became a much simpler ordeal. I mean they can eject the core in under five seconds. The core is technically floating in the ship anyway. Remove the outer hull plate, open the door, pull it out, insert the new one. It's the starship equivalent of swapping out a giant USB card. It can probably be done in a day.
In fact comparing it to this game, it would be FAR simpler to switch out a warp core than to switch out a shield grid, which basically means replacing most of the underlying skin on a ship.
The Main Deflector is similar to a warp core, unhook everything and pull it out of the front, like a DVD drive.
The Bynar was a computer core upgrade.
The major one was the one that was sabotaged. The Drumhead, remember crazy old Judge Admiral Norah Satie? So there are at least two in that episode, the core upgrade that facilitated the accident, and the core replacement that repaired it. Unless the momentum of the matter is a factor, like a particle accelerator, smashing the matter into the antimatter at relativistic speeds. And you get more acceleration with a longer core.
I would think that that energy would be negligible compared to the actual M/A reaction though otherwise the Hadron Collider would be an incredible power source.
Daystrom Institute Technical Library posits that it's a factor of precision aiming allowing for maximum efficiency, since small atoms can be difficult to force into a straight line even with powerful magnets. Longer cores thus have better aim.
And let's not even talk about how the Intrepid's class 9 core works, because I don't know what's going on in that thing visually.
I think that the Defiant got that tiny core because they wanted to make a ship with a small cross section that was harder to hit and easier to mass produce because of its size. The multiple stream warp core, while definitely planned in advance (as per the tech manual and I think Galaxy's Child) is perfect to get such a small ship a LOT of power that it wouldn't otherwise have. On the other hand due to its small size and the fact that it would be using four times as much fuel at once the Defiant's range is likewise shortened.
Yep. As did the NX class. Funny that until Enterprise we never really saw the Connie's core at all, since it's under the deck in OG Engineering.
Actually - this is wrong. The Defiant can cruise at warp 9 - but has trouble passed 9.5. In the Sound of Her Voice - they have to completely disarm the weapons to use all power for the SIF. Granted this flaw might have - and probably was - corrected in later models, but the Prototype had problems with high sustained warp.
Granted - the DS9 Tech manual says the Defiant can pull 9.97 for 12 hours, but we never seen anywhere near this capability in the show. So we're back to the whole point of this thread. What is the ships real capability? What we see on screen or what was written in a manual based on the series bible?
the stats in the ds9 tech manual are a joke. most of them are obvious copy/paste errors.
yup that was part of the problem that mothballed the defiant too much power for the ship it;s size sisko even said in it's premiere episode that it;s warp engines are so powerful it was ripping the ship a part
o'brian and sisko did fix this later but a set speed was never mentioned on screen the tech manual only gives a theoretical top speed cruise of 9.8 and i have the second printing revised version that came out after the show (even talks about the war galaxies the manuals words)
nothing about the defiant int he tech manual was in the bible as the defiant did not exist until season 4 and shows only make a bible for the most part int he beginning. i have the DS9 bible and it's NOTHING like the show it's like they completely ignored it after episode 5
the TNG bible is the only one that looks like the writers followed and gave a TRIBBLE about which i think had to do with gene he was particular on his canon even flat out disregarding episodes of never happening if he did not like them
I would imagine that O'Brien and Sisko's solution became the standard especially since the Defiant class appears to have gone into production afterwards.
Oh...might I take a moment to bask in just how awesome "The Sound of Her Voice" was. As much as I loved her on MAD TV, I fell in love with Debra Wilson all over again, just by the sound of her voice.
I've got that tech manual too. It has plenty of discrepancies. The rule however is what's on screen always takes precedent. That's the hard rule only murky around the animated series which is steadily becoming more canon, especially around its better episodes, and other horrendous blunders like Threshold with the writers themselves, and These Are the Voyages, which most fans I know have thrown into the trash except for the last thirty seconds or so.
The Defiant's engine always seemed too powerful for a ship that size, that's why I personally give it credit in fights with ships above its weight class to a degree. Less ship and more power and those boss phaser cannons. The shunting the extra power into the SIF boosting the ship's hardness was genius of course.
I also want to point out that I appreciate the call forward on Enterprise, when Trip and Reed shunted the extra power from the Phase Cannons into the Polarized Hull Plating, meaning that when the weapons are firing, they got a boost to their armor...which is a very STO Tac thing to do.
I do wish that they had stated the Defiant and Sovereign's top speeds on the show...small details like that do matter.
I can forgive that to a degree. By the time of Way of the Warrior, Deep Space Nine was VASTLY upgraded from that crappy station that Sisko found O'Brien trying to get the replicators working in Emissary.
But Gene was right in that.
I've gotten into arguments with people about Star Trek and real world understood physics and all that TRIBBLE, but they ignore something that the TNG tech manual/bible and writers understood more than DS9 and ESPECIALLY Voyager's did.
The Supreme Value of internal consistency. If there is one thing that Mass Effect showed me in beautiful vivid color is just how strong a universe and the storytelling therein is when supported by a solid underlying foundation, in this case, the science that the fiction is built on. Or rather the Fictional Science the fiction is built on. You then play the game within the rules. It improves the story telling instead of limiting it. And when you introduce something that breaks those rules it has to be pointed out and then that becomes your explore strange new worlds mystery.
voyagers writers on the other hand did not seem to care at all and just wanted to make money and get it done. the DS9 crew just seemed to actually be interested in what was going on the FX guys put a name and registry on every single CGI ship even if you can not read it and would actually tell you what ship was where. this si how we knwo the galaxy was the one that was hit by the orbital and it was repaired sense it appeared later on and how we know there was 14 different galaxy class ships during the war and that the galaxy class ships where the fighter carriers and command ships.
bashir being a changeling was also thought up and planned way in advance it was planned out a full season before it was revealed it was not a surprise internally and for this stuff was able to be added that made the reveal that much better as you could go back and go "oh that's why he did that!"
the behind the scenes of voyager just is so depressing in comparison:(
if a tier 6 galaxy ever happens, likely with a command hybrid LT, it will probably be soonish, just like the intrepid was released soon after DR and the intel ships. i don't see an interior pack for it though, unless they somehow got levar burton, and the USS challenger is in space dock for a reason. who knows. question is, would i even be tempted to start playing again, if it became available? doubt it, i wouldn't even be able to use command skill until i ground out 10 levels of the stupid specialization.
i haven't logged since the day command specialization was announced, but someone said the challenger, Geordi's galaxy, was in there. dude could totally be lieing though lol
The Challenger is indeed flying around Earth and ESD. It is listed outside Quinn's office.
Yeah, Challenger is in Space Dock. If you're facing the window - it's to the right towards the 'curve'. You can see the engineering hull and nacelles. Also if you go to the Admiral's office - his little chart shows what ships are docked inside, and it is Challenger.
The problem is that Braga pretty much lived by the rule of cool. He couldn't be bothered with technobabble and such because he felt, erroneously, that remembering what was established it was limiting. Like you say, if you don't care about the thing as a whole then things like that creep in. They abandoned the Maquis outsiders to create drama thing because it wasn't enough to carry a show seven seasons to begin with and at some point they HAD to start working together anyway otherwise both sides start looking stupid.
Voyager was an enforced explore strange new worlds premise. They were going to be traveling home so they had literally no choice but to run into all new never before seen species and technology every episode. While it sounds like a great premise for a Star Trek series, the fact is that in addition to exploration Star Trek is an attached universe and history, and it's hard to separate that, and that's basically what Voyager had to do. Be separate from all of the preceding Star Trek history. If they had also gone with a fully serialized take with Voyager basically being a flying DS9 with the crew functioning as the insanely huge supporting cast then it probably would've worked in any event. But part of their mission profile was get home which means keep moving and running into new things. They went full episodic and the underlying crew dynamics that would've held that together...suffered.
[/QUOTE]the DS9 crew just seemed to actually be interested in what was going on the FX guys put a name and registry on every single CGI ship even if you can not read it and would actually tell you what ship was where. this si how we knwo the galaxy was the one that was hit by the orbital and it was repaired sense it appeared later on and how we know there was 14 different galaxy class ships during the war and that the galaxy class ships where the fighter carriers and command ships.
bashir being a changeling was also thought up and planned way in advance it was planned out a full season before it was revealed it was not a surprise internally and for this stuff was able to be added that made the reveal that much better as you could go back and go "oh that's why he did that!"
the behind the scenes of voyager just is so depressing in comparison:([/QUOTE]
Agreed with everything except the Bashir bit.
Alexander Siddig, had NO clue. I doubt that it was planned a season in advance I've never heard or read that. It was a few episodes at most. But even when making **** up on the fly, they paid attention to detail, notice real Bashir's last season uniform.
They actually did good. Even most of the Klingon ships look good...from different angles than the first they released.
Those artists though, they must love designing Romulan ships...it shows.
Agreed and fingers crossed.
Levar Burton would definitely need to be part of the package by Cryptic's habits.
On the other hand, while the Reading Rainbow revival has taken off...I'm sure he can find some time between directing gigs to bring back one of Starfleet's greatest engineers.
The Challenger? You know they had a Galaxy parked in front of second Spacedock's engineering window for the longest time. I've scoped all the ships on the orbiting spacedock readout in front of Quinn's office, but I honestly can't say one way or another if the Challenger has been there the whole time. I want to say it was the Galaxy, which should get Starfleet's "Old Ironsides" award if any ship deserves it.