I think what it gets into for some folks out there would be the following:
Joe Jackass, doing his 30-40k DPS, takes note of Average Andy doing his 7-8k DPS and proceeds to mock Average Andy out the wahzoo.
Concerned Charlie comes along to complain about Tommy the Troll doing his 1-2k DPS.
Average Andy has some sort of PTSD moment and goes off on Concerned Charlie, when Concerned Charlie likely thinks Joe Jackass is as much of a dumbass as Average Andy does.
It's a team. Nobody's trying to tell folks how they should have fun when they're off playing by themselves. If their idea of fun is to troll the queues to ruin fun for the other four folks there...
I don't get why so many folks are into defending trolling. You'd think this was a thread on Party Amps or something.
Trolling, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Besides, aren't you just assuming that those people are trolling?
It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you label anyone who doesn't play your way as a "troll".
been saying this for years...all this boff setup options just makes it difficult for people. It is fun and has depth, but preset boff powers has its advantage.
it is also an excellent option for a balanced PVP...preset ships with preset roles. Diversity comes from the type of captain you bring.
If the expectation of a certain minimum of skill in higher difficulty queues is what OP was talking about, then OP should have phrased it as such instead of blanked bashing RPers and low DPS players as, effectively, children. As it stands the OP itself is nothing but eloquent flame bait - this is bad form and could be construed as trolling, which is funny considering the position on trolling OP takes...
I still fail to see where I claimed he was pro-DPS. My comment was about people who try to impose their play style on others, whether that style is high DPS or low DPS is irrelevant.
If the expectation of a certain minimum of skill in higher difficulty queues is what OP was talking about, then OP should have phrased it as such instead of blanked bashing RPers and low DPS players as, effectively, children. As it stands the OP itself is nothing but eloquent flame bait - this is bad form and could be construed as trolling, which is funny considering the position on trolling OP takes...
It's definitely an inflammatory original post he's got going there...and it's kind of a shame that he didn't go back and edit it given the discussion that took place later throughout the thread. Some folks might never read the other things he said because of that first post there...even apologizing for some of the comments from that first post and elaborating on them, etc, etc, etc.
It looks like one of those vent posts from just having hit up something and it being a miserable failgasm that just gnaws at the mind's ability to comprehend just how the Hell it happened...
...I normally go for a smoke or do something else for a bit, knowing that I'd go off the deep end about it - cause uh, I have in the past.
But yeah, the unedited original post there...surprised that any decent discussion has managed to take place...too many folks just read that and reply as if that's all the thread is about, when it's been clarified since. An edit would help, yeah?
I still fail to see where I claimed he was pro-DPS. My comment was about people who try to impose their play style on others, whether that style is high DPS or low DPS is irrelevant.
Um, if he was, as you say, calling everyone a troll who has a different game style, he pretty much would be calling EVERYONE a troll. I'm sorry if I was too subtle, but it seemed obvious to me.
Well then op why don't you do something about it instead of complaining. I'm new and well I can only reach up to 600 dps or 700 dps with the 2 purple phaser, 1 quantum purple, and the rest are in green color and yes all mark 12. I'm trying to get the r&d to maximum but that is going to take a while, and I'm not going to bother with the exchange unless it's for a console which cost a lot of credits well you know how people are with money.
Well then op why don't you do something about it instead of complaining. I'm new and well I can only reach up to 600 dps or 700 dps with the 2 purple phaser, 1 quantum purple, and the rest are in green color and yes all mark 12. I'm trying to get the r&d to maximum but that is going to take a while, and I'm not going to bother with the exchange unless it's for a console which cost a lot of credits well you know how people are with money.
Have you joined a fleet? Have you joined the DPS-Public channel?
I guarantee that doing either one of these will get you above "600 DPS or 700 DPS."
This thread could very well be talking about me, and I personally don't see this as a viable idea Cryptic should execute.
For one: I'm not a max-DPS kind of guy; I shoot from the hip. I'm an on-the-fly, chilled-out kind of player that does whatever "feels" right. For example: My ship has been badly damaged from a previous borg encounter, and suddenly I'm called in by Starfleet Command to defend the Kang. Well, I haven't had time to repair my shields, so I just jump right into the thick of things without them altogether.
Same for weapons. Sometimes playing the cheerleader from the sidelides is not only moreale-boosting, but it makes the team FEEL GOOD about themselves. Encouragement and kind words are severely lacking in this game, and I am here to put the cheer back into Star Trek.
Also, for canon/RP purposes, I also fly a Connie. I know, it's not the best ship, but it's what my main has been commissioned, and he has to make the best of what's available. Congrats for picking up a Galor or a Bugship, but I have no problem Captaining a slightly less-capable ship if that's how the cards fall; My main has always been a can-do, never-say-no officer.
It's not that we don't always know what we're doing, but due to RP/immersion constraints, I can only do the BEST that my toon, given his abilities, can. When my toon was just out of the academy, he was unsure of himself, questioning every order, second-guessing himself. As you can imagine, it didn't make him very effective in battle, but he's evolved a lot since then. and if no one else will give him credit for his achievements, then I will.
What you're suggesting is downright offensive. We don't ALL have to be DPSing whales. I prefer some challenge. Just in real life, you can't win every battle.
I DEMAND that you buy me a new irony meter! And a new eyebrow! My meter exploded and my eyebrow levitated clear off of my head while reading this!
Have you joined a fleet? Have you joined the DPS-Public channel?
I guarantee that doing either one of these will get you above "600 DPS or 700 DPS."
I'm in a fleet call section 31 yes I know I haven't bother in visiting the base but now that you mention it what should I keep my eye on if there's something better then phaser and quantum well feel free to tell me.
I still fail to see where I claimed he was pro-DPS. My comment was about people who try to impose their play style on others, whether that style is high DPS or low DPS is irrelevant.
The content says the team needs to be able to do X in order to have a chance at success. That's not something that a player coming along is saying. That's the content. That's not people trying to impose their play style on others. If somebody came along and said you needed 30k+ DPS so we could have a nice 'n easy quick run of something...that's somebody imposing their preferences.
If a player is showing up, where if there were five players doing the same thing there was guaranteed failure of the mission...pointing out that the player may need to address something is not people imposing their style of play.
That folks can't differentiate between pointing out content requirements and player preferences...speaks off some traumatic butthurt that probably requires therapy.
This is a problem that anyone can easily solve themselves with zero Dev time needed. Take the time to set up private matches among friends/fleetmates who all share a similar play style and there won't ever be an issue of sub-par gear, limited skill etc.
If other players in PUGs aren't living up to expectations, then don't PUG.
Absolutely. The discussion here could be constructive, even educational, but the OP sabotages that right out of the gate. Look at my knee-jerk reaction response last night, or so many other offended responses in this thread.
It's sad. There's merit to expecting a certain bare minimum performance for higher-difficulty content. I know I'm lucky to break 5k, and as a rule I keep out of Advanced queues unless I'm going in with a premade. I have roleplay ship builds, roleplay BOffs, and BOFf power layouts that I'm comfortable with rather than layouts that are efficient. I'm not an ideal teammate, saved only by reasonable competence with the objectives in (the old) STFs that at least helped me not TRIBBLE up a run by doing the wrong thing. A person like me shouldn't set foot into an Advanced without a team that knows they'll be a weak link and is perfectly okay with that.
The problem isn't entirely the players, though. Cryptic locked certain rewards behind those difficulties, rewards players of all stripes might need, and not everyone can just farm enough EC to buy them. Is that an excuse for not trying to pull your own weight? No. But it's enough to absolve them of intentional sabotage or trolling. Then there's people who just legitimately don't know. Maybe it's the first time they've stepped out of Normal.
You can't just occasionally toss the pigskin in the back yard and expect to jump right into college-level football, let alone professional.
You know, there is one simple (well, relatively simple) suggestion made upthread that would help quite a lot:
Somewhere, publish a list of the commonly-used abbreviations in ship-build discussions, along with what they're abbreviating. I've tried to read some of the suggestions people have made, but it quickly degenerated into an illegible alphabet soup of "ETBx" and whatnot. And do something similar for the instruction sets for STFs.
Personally, I've just steered clear of all the STFs (with one notable, one-time exception) because I'm expected to know what's coming up in them, and what I'm supposed to do about it. When I ask about it, I'm directed to the forums - where the supposedly "explanatory" posts are more jargon-laden than anything else I've read (and I'm a former programmer, and had a WWII-history-buff father!). I can't understand it, so I just skip the whole thing.
You want me to get better? Tell me how. And do it in a language I can understand, not like you're a Tamaranian librarian.
Um, if he was, as you say, calling everyone a troll who has a different game style, he pretty much would be calling EVERYONE a troll. I'm sorry if I was too subtle, but it seemed obvious to me.
He pretty much labelled anyone who doesn't do well in queued missions as trolls. He also implied that, because I don't share his opinion, I am somehow supporting trolls and then went on to say that I was trolling.
To be honest, STO is nothing more than entertainment for me and I feel dirty for allowing myself to be sucked into a topic with such a self-serving premise.
I'm new and well I can only reach up to 600 dps or 700 dps with the 2 purple phaser, 1 quantum purple, and the rest are in green color and yes all mark 12. I'm trying to get the r&d to maximum but that is going to take a while, and I'm not going to bother with the exchange unless it's for a console which cost a lot of credits well you know how people are with money.
If you're doing less than 1k DPS with Mk XII gear, the problem is with your build.
You're probably unaware of some of the fundamentals about building ships. For example:
Are you running multiples of key abilities to minimize downtime?
For example, Cannon Scatter Volley has a cooldown of 30s and a duplicate ability cooldown of 15s. With just one copy you would only be able to use CSV every 30s. With two copies you'd be able to use CSV every 15s by alternating between them.
Are you mixing weapon types?
You should have all beams or all cannons/turrets, because otherwise Beam Fire At Will or Cannon Scatter Volley would be affecting only some of your weapons, and not others. Since you want 2xFAW or 2xCSV, you'd be making inefficient use of your Tactical stations to run both.
Are you wasting your Tactical console slots?
They should be full of the appropriate energy boosting console. So for Phasers, you should have all Phaser Relays or (ideally) Tactical Vulnerability Locators. Never boost torpedoes unless you're running a torpedo boat. In fact, if you're not making a torpedo boat, you shouldn't be using torpedoes at all.
Do you have a kill zone?
Your ships should have an ideal firing cone where you can bring all your weapons to bear on your target. Beam Arrays have a 270 degree cone, so if you put Beam Arrays fore and aft you get overlapping cones at the port and starboard where you can bring all your weapons to bear. You wouldn't put a torpedo on that ship because it fires in a 90 degree cone, and wouldn't be able to add firepower to the killzone.
Are you using 100 Weapon Power?
By default ships are set to 50 Weapon / 50 Shields / 50 Engine / 50 Aux power. Usually we want to be set at around 100/50/25/25 if we're not in a Science Ship.
I just noticed something critical about the training system.
When you buy a power and mouse over the manual, it gives absolutely no information about that that power does. It gives information over what the manual does. It simply says,
Training Manual - Science - Feedback Pulse 1
Uncommon Inventory
Slot - Lieutenant
Allows you to train one Bridge Officer in the use of a new ability.
The info tab says exactly the same thing.
There is absolutely no indication whatsoever about the power being trained.
This omission of information has serious implications for the game. In a community that is torn asunder with complaints of others being "clueless about their builds" in missions, this is not a good state of affairs. This information needs to be added with a bit of urgency.
Somewhere, publish a list of the commonly-used abbreviations in ship-build discussions, along with what they're abbreviating. I've tried to read some of the suggestions people have made, but it quickly degenerated into an illegible alphabet soup of "ETBx" and whatnot. And do something similar for the instruction sets for STFs.
Personally, I've just steered clear of all the STFs (with one notable, one-time exception) because I'm expected to know what's coming up in them, and what I'm supposed to do about it. When I ask about it, I'm directed to the forums - where the supposedly "explanatory" posts are more jargon-laden than anything else I've read (and I'm a former programmer, and had a WWII-history-buff father!). I can't understand it, so I just skip the whole thing.
You want me to get better? Tell me how. And do it in a language I can understand, not like you're a Tamaranian librarian.
I think the STO forums are not really all that useful. You'd actually be better off on reddit.
For example, here's a glossary of acronyms. The guides for STFs are out of date, but give you a general idea. Really for STFs (due to lots of changes recently) you'd be better off asking your Fleet if you're in a good one, or the DPS-Public channel. The builds on /r/stobuilds don't use acronyms either, so that could be handy for you. Subsequent discussions about the builds are likely to be heavy with acronyms though, because you can only type Emergency Power to Weapons so many times before you start just using EPtW.
A new player comes along. They look at the queues. The "reporting error" only shows players involved in the public queues, not those players that are running private queues. They see the queues are dead. The game is apparently dead. They uninstall.
If instead there was a way to reduce the number of folks that have driven folks off to those private queues so the public queues were healthier...what would that new player see?
Healthy public queues...potential for new players to stay, players not to get fed up and leave, etc, etc, etc...potential for increased revenue and development of the game.
Dead public queues...potential for new players to leave, players to get fed up and leave, etc, etc, etc...potential for decreased revenue and shutting down the game.
He pretty much labelled anyone who doesn't do well in queued missions as trolls. He also implied that, because I don't share his opinion, I am somehow supporting trolls and then went on to say that I was trolling.
Perhaps it is because you failed to understand what was being said...which even had another chip in to try to explain to you...getting nowhere in the process.
To be honest, STO is nothing more than entertainment for me and I feel dirty for allowing myself to be sucked into a topic with such a self-serving premise.
Yep, wanting STO to do well is definitely self-serving. Sure, there are others that might like that too...but yeah, I want STO to flourish so I can enjoy it. Damn me, damn me, damn me. :rolleyes:
May I present everyone with a discovery I just made. The situation is not gong to get better with things like this in the game.
If you go to the Skills tab for a BOFF, it lists all the available abilities for them whether they have learned them or not - including actual numbers and not just narrative.
Comments
Joe Jackass, doing his 30-40k DPS, takes note of Average Andy doing his 7-8k DPS and proceeds to mock Average Andy out the wahzoo.
Concerned Charlie comes along to complain about Tommy the Troll doing his 1-2k DPS.
Average Andy has some sort of PTSD moment and goes off on Concerned Charlie, when Concerned Charlie likely thinks Joe Jackass is as much of a dumbass as Average Andy does.
Trolling, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Besides, aren't you just assuming that those people are trolling?
It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you label anyone who doesn't play your way as a "troll".
it is also an excellent option for a balanced PVP...preset ships with preset roles. Diversity comes from the type of captain you bring.
Have you read through some of my posts in this thread?
It's hard to take you as anything other than a troll. /shrug
The feeling is mutual.
I LOL'd. You do know that he isn't a DPS-centric player, right? Have you ever seen his other posts? :rolleyes:
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I've said, but thanks for the info.
Lest you forget:
That's a curious reply.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I still fail to see where I claimed he was pro-DPS. My comment was about people who try to impose their play style on others, whether that style is high DPS or low DPS is irrelevant.
WRONG!
i do 8 k in my multimission with xiv disruptor beams a mk xiii kenetic beam a 360 mk xiv disruptor beam.
and plasma doped with 3 embassy consoles
and fleet tac consoles with romulan set and romulan plas torpedo.
marion doff and full purple aux2batt setup.
however with me on the team we do collectively more dps, as i have lots of aoe heals.
fermion field generator.large shield and hull heal for everyone in 10k
nainite splash heal. i activate hazard emitters with auxillery battery and everyone in 3k gets a large hull heal.
undine rep shield regenerator.
quantum shield combined with extend shield with resistance buff,
eps conduit if there is a scimitar in group.
engineering fleet trait, heal everyone on team
and that pink kinetic shield bubble.
i may not be 10k.
but i can keep those that do 20k and above alive. that is equally valuable
It's definitely an inflammatory original post he's got going there...and it's kind of a shame that he didn't go back and edit it given the discussion that took place later throughout the thread. Some folks might never read the other things he said because of that first post there...even apologizing for some of the comments from that first post and elaborating on them, etc, etc, etc.
It looks like one of those vent posts from just having hit up something and it being a miserable failgasm that just gnaws at the mind's ability to comprehend just how the Hell it happened...
...I normally go for a smoke or do something else for a bit, knowing that I'd go off the deep end about it - cause uh, I have in the past.
But yeah, the unedited original post there...surprised that any decent discussion has managed to take place...too many folks just read that and reply as if that's all the thread is about, when it's been clarified since. An edit would help, yeah?
Um, if he was, as you say, calling everyone a troll who has a different game style, he pretty much would be calling EVERYONE a troll. I'm sorry if I was too subtle, but it seemed obvious to me.
Have you joined a fleet? Have you joined the DPS-Public channel?
I guarantee that doing either one of these will get you above "600 DPS or 700 DPS."
I DEMAND that you buy me a new irony meter! And a new eyebrow! My meter exploded and my eyebrow levitated clear off of my head while reading this!
Thanks for the laugh.
I'm in a fleet call section 31 yes I know I haven't bother in visiting the base but now that you mention it what should I keep my eye on if there's something better then phaser and quantum well feel free to tell me.
The content says the team needs to be able to do X in order to have a chance at success. That's not something that a player coming along is saying. That's the content. That's not people trying to impose their play style on others. If somebody came along and said you needed 30k+ DPS so we could have a nice 'n easy quick run of something...that's somebody imposing their preferences.
If a player is showing up, where if there were five players doing the same thing there was guaranteed failure of the mission...pointing out that the player may need to address something is not people imposing their style of play.
That folks can't differentiate between pointing out content requirements and player preferences...speaks off some traumatic butthurt that probably requires therapy.
That's the spirit! Let the trolls win! /facepalm
Absolutely. The discussion here could be constructive, even educational, but the OP sabotages that right out of the gate. Look at my knee-jerk reaction response last night, or so many other offended responses in this thread.
It's sad. There's merit to expecting a certain bare minimum performance for higher-difficulty content. I know I'm lucky to break 5k, and as a rule I keep out of Advanced queues unless I'm going in with a premade. I have roleplay ship builds, roleplay BOffs, and BOFf power layouts that I'm comfortable with rather than layouts that are efficient. I'm not an ideal teammate, saved only by reasonable competence with the objectives in (the old) STFs that at least helped me not TRIBBLE up a run by doing the wrong thing. A person like me shouldn't set foot into an Advanced without a team that knows they'll be a weak link and is perfectly okay with that.
The problem isn't entirely the players, though. Cryptic locked certain rewards behind those difficulties, rewards players of all stripes might need, and not everyone can just farm enough EC to buy them. Is that an excuse for not trying to pull your own weight? No. But it's enough to absolve them of intentional sabotage or trolling. Then there's people who just legitimately don't know. Maybe it's the first time they've stepped out of Normal.
You can't just occasionally toss the pigskin in the back yard and expect to jump right into college-level football, let alone professional.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Somewhere, publish a list of the commonly-used abbreviations in ship-build discussions, along with what they're abbreviating. I've tried to read some of the suggestions people have made, but it quickly degenerated into an illegible alphabet soup of "ETBx" and whatnot. And do something similar for the instruction sets for STFs.
Personally, I've just steered clear of all the STFs (with one notable, one-time exception) because I'm expected to know what's coming up in them, and what I'm supposed to do about it. When I ask about it, I'm directed to the forums - where the supposedly "explanatory" posts are more jargon-laden than anything else I've read (and I'm a former programmer, and had a WWII-history-buff father!). I can't understand it, so I just skip the whole thing.
You want me to get better? Tell me how. And do it in a language I can understand, not like you're a Tamaranian librarian.
He pretty much labelled anyone who doesn't do well in queued missions as trolls. He also implied that, because I don't share his opinion, I am somehow supporting trolls and then went on to say that I was trolling.
To be honest, STO is nothing more than entertainment for me and I feel dirty for allowing myself to be sucked into a topic with such a self-serving premise.
If you're doing less than 1k DPS with Mk XII gear, the problem is with your build.
You're probably unaware of some of the fundamentals about building ships. For example:
Are you running multiples of key abilities to minimize downtime?
For example, Cannon Scatter Volley has a cooldown of 30s and a duplicate ability cooldown of 15s. With just one copy you would only be able to use CSV every 30s. With two copies you'd be able to use CSV every 15s by alternating between them.
Are you mixing weapon types?
You should have all beams or all cannons/turrets, because otherwise Beam Fire At Will or Cannon Scatter Volley would be affecting only some of your weapons, and not others. Since you want 2xFAW or 2xCSV, you'd be making inefficient use of your Tactical stations to run both.
Are you wasting your Tactical console slots?
They should be full of the appropriate energy boosting console. So for Phasers, you should have all Phaser Relays or (ideally) Tactical Vulnerability Locators. Never boost torpedoes unless you're running a torpedo boat. In fact, if you're not making a torpedo boat, you shouldn't be using torpedoes at all.
Do you have a kill zone?
Your ships should have an ideal firing cone where you can bring all your weapons to bear on your target. Beam Arrays have a 270 degree cone, so if you put Beam Arrays fore and aft you get overlapping cones at the port and starboard where you can bring all your weapons to bear. You wouldn't put a torpedo on that ship because it fires in a 90 degree cone, and wouldn't be able to add firepower to the killzone.
Are you using 100 Weapon Power?
By default ships are set to 50 Weapon / 50 Shields / 50 Engine / 50 Aux power. Usually we want to be set at around 100/50/25/25 if we're not in a Science Ship.
I think the STO forums are not really all that useful. You'd actually be better off on reddit.
For example, here's a glossary of acronyms. The guides for STFs are out of date, but give you a general idea. Really for STFs (due to lots of changes recently) you'd be better off asking your Fleet if you're in a good one, or the DPS-Public channel. The builds on /r/stobuilds don't use acronyms either, so that could be handy for you. Subsequent discussions about the builds are likely to be heavy with acronyms though, because you can only type Emergency Power to Weapons so many times before you start just using EPtW.
A new player comes along. They look at the queues. The "reporting error" only shows players involved in the public queues, not those players that are running private queues. They see the queues are dead. The game is apparently dead. They uninstall.
If instead there was a way to reduce the number of folks that have driven folks off to those private queues so the public queues were healthier...what would that new player see?
Healthy public queues...potential for new players to stay, players not to get fed up and leave, etc, etc, etc...potential for increased revenue and development of the game.
Dead public queues...potential for new players to leave, players to get fed up and leave, etc, etc, etc...potential for decreased revenue and shutting down the game.
Perhaps it is because you failed to understand what was being said...which even had another chip in to try to explain to you...getting nowhere in the process.
Because I didn't do what you think I did...
Yep, wanting STO to do well is definitely self-serving. Sure, there are others that might like that too...but yeah, I want STO to flourish so I can enjoy it. Damn me, damn me, damn me. :rolleyes:
If you go to the Skills tab for a BOFF, it lists all the available abilities for them whether they have learned them or not - including actual numbers and not just narrative.