Old D'Angelo had a game
E-I-E-I-O
And in his game he had a nerf
E-I-E-I-O
With a nerf-nerf here
And a nerf-nerf there
Here nerf, there nerf
Everywhere nerf nerf!
Old D'Angelo had a game
E-I-E-I-O
And in his game he had a nerf
E-I-E-I-O
With a nerf-nerf here
And a nerf-nerf there
Here nerf, there nerf
Everywhere nerf nerf!
Any answer to whether skill points for defeating NPCs, which makes up the majority of skill point gains for many players, will be scaled to match these changes?
Even though quest rewards have been scaled up, this change amounted to a pretty huge loss in advancement speed for most players.
XP needed to level has almost been trippled. The XP given by NPCs has gone up by a little over 1/3 from around 300 to 420 or so (Given large race ship on advance). The amount from missions has gone up by about a little over three times. So the mission XP is correct from your thought process but what happen to your NPC math? Shouldn't their XP be given same example be closer to 900 XP?
You are still dropping the XP when we group too. I don't group a lot with my friends but would like to have the option as it stands it is faster and easier to play solo. At the least normalize the XP while grouped.
First off full points for writing the most obscurely worded patch note apology I have ever read. I had to re-read this 3 times to even begin to follow what was said.
While developing the Delta Rising expansion for Star Trek Online, there was a lot of work that went into creating the reward schema for skill points and the requirements of skill points needed to advance up through level 60. Throughout the creation and testing of these additional levels, much of the teams attention was focused on whether or not the rewards and the progression felt correct. Unfortunately, since the release of Delta Rising, we have discovered some issues with our initial math that have caused some anomalous player facing numbers that we are now addressing in our upcoming update.
"Anomalous Player facing numbers" that in awesome piece of vagueness, I have written solidly obscure stuff in my time but that deserves special recognition. I read this as "We thought about a whole lot and we did a lot of math, but when we put it all together the thing the players saw did not reflect our math, or in short we screwed up coding and didn't catch it. " Ok that happens, no big. What are you doing to make it right?
The major issue we discovered is that we built our rewards off of how much of a level we wanted a player to earn by completing a given piece of content, but did not take into account what the actual number that showed up in the rewards would be. The end result is that if you completed a mission or duty officer assignment at level 49 and then completed the same mission or duty officer assignment at level 51, you would see a smaller reward of skill points for the mission completed at a higher level. While this may sound like players were getting fewer rewards than they should, that has not been the case as the required amount of skill points needed to achieve each level was set with these values in mind.
I have read this paragraph a bunch, and it comes down to the last sentence "That was not the case as the required amount of skill points needed to achieve each level was set with these values in mind." These Values referring to what? The skill point reward, is my guess. If that's the case and the progression wasn't what was intended then how is it not the case?
As I read this it comes across as we didn't really TRIBBLE up, we just missed a little. Is that a fair assessment?
The fix for this is that we will be updating the skill point rewards throughout the game so that they will at least maintain the values seen at earlier levels, or in the case of critter kills increase in skill point rewards as you increase in player level. In order to maintain the desired rate of progression we spent a lot of time fine tuning while developing Delta Rising the required amount of skill points for each player level will also go up.
Yay we are finally getting to how you guys are going to get fix it! So your going to go back to leveling how we used to. Great. Everyone is thrilled I'm sure. Thank you for fixing this huge flaw.
While there are a lot of numbers changing, we have taken extra care to make sure that the speed at which players level up will remain the same as it is now. This means that if a player chooses to level up from level 51 to 52 using exclusively missions and it currently requires that they play 3 missions to do so, then after the update it will still take 3 missions to level up from 51 to 52 if you use them as your sole source of skill points. This is true for whatever method a player might choose for leveling up whether it is missions, duty officer assignments or critter kills.
So you intend 3 missions to equal a level of progression, great. That seems fine. I'm not sure that working right now but, we can get that in another thread.
We will furthermore ensure that every players current progression is maintained while these numbers are updated. If you are halfway between levels 52 and 53 now, you will remain halfway between levels 52 and 53 after the update even though the total amount of skill points to achieve level 52 has gone up and the required skill points youll need to earn in order to become level 53 has also gone up.
Ok enter my problem. So your acknowledge that this wasn't working as intended. When I logged in a I got the" you leveled sound", and figured you guys had finally fixed this, but when I checked the logs, low and behold there was no reward. In short you don't actually think that what happened was wrong, and that the players should not be compensated for the miserably leveling experience of this expansion. That is where I just find this to be ridiculous. The least you could do to make it up to the players would be to give us the benefit of this fix, and lets us pick up the spec point or level, instead of normalizing the whole update.
We are sorry to be making such drastic changes so far after launch. Unlike the other changes we are making to tune balance, this should be a one-time change.
Charles Gray
Lead Content Designer
Star Trek Online
Well thanks for the apology. But for the love of your IP, please get more testing, this leveling experience was terrible; and I for one find it silly that nothing has been done to alleviate the experience.
The math is completely irrelevant.
Fact is that the XP and leveling system was designed very very carefully to allow you to reach the minimum level for each new story mission as you complete the one before it, when playing on mid (advanced) difficulty.
If you choose the easy (normal) difficulty you need to do some things in between, but advanced allowed for a challenging, interesting and continuous story, which was absolutely lovely.
The player was essentially guided through the story seamlessly.
For some reason this fell under the table with the lvl50 missions not auto triggering, but it still worked.
It was only completely butchered with the XP update.
DR already feels grindy as hell because of the difficult enemies one has to kill, and because we get a way too big batch of "patrol these systems" dropped on us with every assignment.
It is NOT a good strategy to then impose another barrier to prevent people from continuing even with those until they get hundred thousands worth of XP from somewhere.
It would make people feel like they have to abort grinding towards the awesome missions to grind some other missions.
= "I'm sorry, you need to grind a bit more before we can allow you to grind even more to be allowed to see the actual gist of the expansion"
Sometimes i'm seriously considering applying for some job at cryptic just to be able to remind people there of things that should be common sense, because most of the recent ****-ups besides the truly awesome new content are seriously inexplicable rookie mistakes.
every mmo that i ever played that turned into a grind feast all have 1 thing in common a serious lack of players
add content that players enjoy playing not some repietive bull-**** that every1 get tired of
i lvl up from 50-to 60 before the patch and tought that was boring apart from doing the missions
i did a mission and had 2/3 to go in lvl before i could get the next 1 so i did the boring grind to get the so no missions after lvl 60 so all thats left is the boring grind to lvl up my specilisation and now youve made that boring grind even longer what a game this is.
p.s. that post about the changes by that dev that guy needs to get a reaily check hes living in cloud cookoo land.
I had a 1% hope the downage was to fix the obvious bugs in the exp. But I report no change to doff skill point rewards. Doffing remains nerfed into the stone age.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Before the Thursday patch I was able to run a patrol mission in Tau Dewa (yeah that sector block of space) I don't remember the planet name its just 5 waves of kdf ships you need to blow up.
But I was clearing almost 1 full white bar of xp, now im receiving only 1/3 of that, mind you im not solely running this over and over, I usually do it like 2-3 times a day at most.
Doffing has also slowed the xp crawl even further.
Dan Stahl, we need you. You are our only hope. (it truly says something about the current state of the game when im certain many others are starting to feel this same way)
If anything, a skill cpt point should of been granted at 25k XP instead of 55k...not around 160k instead of 55k.
Again, elite grounds grant under 1k, so go ahead and do 200 runs for a cpt skill point, since space is out of the equation.
Before the Thursday patch I was able to run a patrol mission in Tau Dewa (yeah that sector block of space) I don't remember the planet name its just 5 waves of kdf ships you need to blow up.
But I was clearing almost 1 full white bar of xp, now im receiving only 1/3 of that, mind you im not solely running this over and over, I usually do it like 2-3 times a day at most.
Doffing has also slowed the xp crawl even further.
Dan Stahl, we need you. You are our only hope. (it truly says something about the current state of the game when im certain many others are starting to feel this same way)
You realize how unfair this is for people that weren't power leveling?
They're thinking you'll still be here this time next year simply because you haven't maxed out your specialization sheets yet. They're hanging their carrots on longer sticks. That's all.
STO - its conversion to a true 'Asian Grind MMO' paradigm continues. I'm sure the folks at PWI are happy with what PWE has managed with the latest round of changes.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Congradulations, you got your wish. Your math is completely wrong. You win one internet!
First, before and after the patch, the SP cost per level changed every level. That is, the costs were not static from 50-55 as you mentioned. Here are the actual numbers:
Increase in SP costs:
154,800/55,500=2.79 times more
Increase is SP rewarded from Argala:
2730/944=2.89
So this missions award slightly more proportionally to the increase in SP. Each mission will vary slightly because math.
All these numbers were just double checked in data and in game and appear accurate from our end.
Now I dont know if you are considering SP from critter kills. That is certainly going to vary greatly if you kill a lot of critters versus another with few critters (and the Delta Patrols vary greatly and each time you play many of them generate a random number of waves). But remember critters also received an increase in proportion to the new requirements.
To be clear, player progression should be the same now as it was before. In fact, Starship Mastery will be faster since critter ships award a lot more SP and Starship Master requirement did not go up.
The main reason this change was made was there were odd discrepancies at each level causing some rewards (critter kill, doff assignments, and missions) to be lower at higher levels. The change fixes that. I give you my word no one is trying to pull a fast one on the community. It is entirely possible there is a bug we are unaware of. If there is, we will find it and fix it.
I hope this clears things up.
Very Best Regards,
LLAP,
-Al Captain Geko Rivera
should episode replays also not award the 2,730 XP on completion as well? currently they reward 1,973
Based on your figures and based on this argala reward only (does not include critter kills etc etc)
Based on level 60:-
Argala reward: 2,730 = 57 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Episode replay reward: 1,973 = 79 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Now one of you devs previously mentioned on another thread that there is other content we can play to level up.
If this was the case then these rewards should be standardised across the board, this clearly is not the case as the above shows and really is not worth the effort to complete any of the old story content again.
If i was the one setting the figures here and i wanted to make the story content to be more appealing to the player base i would probably increase this content reward above that of sector patrols possibly double that of argala?
PVE queues should also offer more (sorry not checked what they are)
This grind would be a little more bearable for me personally as it will not be the same content over and over again in a row, at least with story content i can pick and choose which missions i can run and like and not the same patrol all the time.
Comments
E-I-E-I-O
And in his game he had a nerf
E-I-E-I-O
With a nerf-nerf here
And a nerf-nerf there
Here nerf, there nerf
Everywhere nerf nerf!
Old D'Angelo had a nerf
E-I-E-I-O
>Cryptic at work<
My Lvl 59 ROM character was about 40k EP away from 60 before the patch. After yesterday's patch he jumped to 116k away.
That certainly seems pretty whacked.
Cool story BRAH...
FYI - You came off condescending.
Pretty sure you have already been spoken to about the ***** storm you have created on the forums / in game.
Not long now mate till that last straw breaks the proverbial camel's back and they ask you to clear your things and hand in your door pass.
The Sooner, The Better...
YOUR A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yet... no one is laughing =D
D,
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
Outstanding!! you just made me laugh out loud....unfortunately I'm still at work ...but it was worth it!
Even though quest rewards have been scaled up, this change amounted to a pretty huge loss in advancement speed for most players.
Agreed, do us all a favour Gecko and resign and go serve cookies in Subways.
You are still dropping the XP when we group too. I don't group a lot with my friends but would like to have the option as it stands it is faster and easier to play solo. At the least normalize the XP while grouped.
"Anomalous Player facing numbers" that in awesome piece of vagueness, I have written solidly obscure stuff in my time but that deserves special recognition. I read this as "We thought about a whole lot and we did a lot of math, but when we put it all together the thing the players saw did not reflect our math, or in short we screwed up coding and didn't catch it. " Ok that happens, no big. What are you doing to make it right?
I have read this paragraph a bunch, and it comes down to the last sentence "That was not the case as the required amount of skill points needed to achieve each level was set with these values in mind." These Values referring to what? The skill point reward, is my guess. If that's the case and the progression wasn't what was intended then how is it not the case?
As I read this it comes across as we didn't really TRIBBLE up, we just missed a little. Is that a fair assessment?
Yay we are finally getting to how you guys are going to get fix it! So your going to go back to leveling how we used to. Great. Everyone is thrilled I'm sure. Thank you for fixing this huge flaw.
So you intend 3 missions to equal a level of progression, great. That seems fine. I'm not sure that working right now but, we can get that in another thread.
Ok enter my problem. So your acknowledge that this wasn't working as intended. When I logged in a I got the" you leveled sound", and figured you guys had finally fixed this, but when I checked the logs, low and behold there was no reward. In short you don't actually think that what happened was wrong, and that the players should not be compensated for the miserably leveling experience of this expansion. That is where I just find this to be ridiculous. The least you could do to make it up to the players would be to give us the benefit of this fix, and lets us pick up the spec point or level, instead of normalizing the whole update.
Well thanks for the apology. But for the love of your IP, please get more testing, this leveling experience was terrible; and I for one find it silly that nothing has been done to alleviate the experience.
Bring the fun back to STO.
And the Devs have yet to do ANYTHING constructive to address the players concerns.
In-fact, the recent update has just made things a hell of a lot worse by all accounts.
But its cool, apparently there is a party this evening in Club47 to celebrate the fantastic launch of Delta Grinding.
Total Joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
D,
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
>>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
>>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
The math is completely irrelevant.
Fact is that the XP and leveling system was designed very very carefully to allow you to reach the minimum level for each new story mission as you complete the one before it, when playing on mid (advanced) difficulty.
If you choose the easy (normal) difficulty you need to do some things in between, but advanced allowed for a challenging, interesting and continuous story, which was absolutely lovely.
The player was essentially guided through the story seamlessly.
For some reason this fell under the table with the lvl50 missions not auto triggering, but it still worked.
It was only completely butchered with the XP update.
DR already feels grindy as hell because of the difficult enemies one has to kill, and because we get a way too big batch of "patrol these systems" dropped on us with every assignment.
It is NOT a good strategy to then impose another barrier to prevent people from continuing even with those until they get hundred thousands worth of XP from somewhere.
It would make people feel like they have to abort grinding towards the awesome missions to grind some other missions.
= "I'm sorry, you need to grind a bit more before we can allow you to grind even more to be allowed to see the actual gist of the expansion"
Sometimes i'm seriously considering applying for some job at cryptic just to be able to remind people there of things that should be common sense, because most of the recent ****-ups besides the truly awesome new content are seriously inexplicable rookie mistakes.
add content that players enjoy playing not some repietive bull-**** that every1 get tired of
i lvl up from 50-to 60 before the patch and tought that was boring apart from doing the missions
i did a mission and had 2/3 to go in lvl before i could get the next 1 so i did the boring grind to get the so no missions after lvl 60 so all thats left is the boring grind to lvl up my specilisation and now youve made that boring grind even longer what a game this is.
p.s. that post about the changes by that dev that guy needs to get a reaily check hes living in cloud cookoo land.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
But I was clearing almost 1 full white bar of xp, now im receiving only 1/3 of that, mind you im not solely running this over and over, I usually do it like 2-3 times a day at most.
Doffing has also slowed the xp crawl even further.
Dan Stahl, we need you. You are our only hope. (it truly says something about the current state of the game when im certain many others are starting to feel this same way)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE
altering the deal ^_^
Again, elite grounds grant under 1k, so go ahead and do 200 runs for a cpt skill point, since space is out of the equation.
@Tonyjohnminter
Mosquito Squadron & SVKE
Dan Stahl, Brandon Flakes; it was the right age
Cryptic needs to fix this TRIBBLE today. Take the server down, do an 'emergency patch,' whatever.. just fix it.
The way it is now is just ridiculous. Why must every update be a TRIBBLE job lately? :mad:
You realize how unfair this is for people that weren't power leveling?
ADM Board, Whitehall, London - United Federation of Planets
http://www.srs-fleet.net/
They're thinking you'll still be here this time next year simply because you haven't maxed out your specialization sheets yet. They're hanging their carrots on longer sticks. That's all.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
should episode replays also not award the 2,730 XP on completion as well? currently they reward 1,973
Based on your figures and based on this argala reward only (does not include critter kills etc etc)
Based on level 60:-
Argala reward: 2,730 = 57 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Episode replay reward: 1,973 = 79 runs (rounded up to nearest whole number)
Now one of you devs previously mentioned on another thread that there is other content we can play to level up.
If this was the case then these rewards should be standardised across the board, this clearly is not the case as the above shows and really is not worth the effort to complete any of the old story content again.
If i was the one setting the figures here and i wanted to make the story content to be more appealing to the player base i would probably increase this content reward above that of sector patrols possibly double that of argala?
PVE queues should also offer more (sorry not checked what they are)
This grind would be a little more bearable for me personally as it will not be the same content over and over again in a row, at least with story content i can pick and choose which missions i can run and like and not the same patrol all the time.