ANOTHER nerf? Holy TRIBBLE they die like flies already! What were the current versions of pets breaking in-game to warrant this?
this smacks of more "playing as intended" nonsense...what's going to happen next; players DPS too high and they will get nerfed as well?
I've taken care of my own nerfing this week. I nerfed my subscription and the budget I allot for STO. I was paying for enjoyment and it's not working as intended.
I take it you missed the P1->CaptainGeko interview that mentions a starship upgrading school. You can craft shuttles and frigates first before eventually moving on to full starships. That's when we'll probably be able to upgrade them.
Yeah, you go on and hold on to that "promise" and let it warm your winter nights .
Other players will be out in the cold waiting for their secondary deflectors and craftable modifiers on weapons .
First thing I thought before even reading the topic title entirely, NERF
So the metrics are saying people with carriers are ignoring the upgrading weapons dil toll eh.
I was wondering which feature you'd ruin next, I had my money on contraband but okay
HOW ABOUT YOU SPEND TIME FIXING THE AI INSTEAD
Unfortunately forum rules prevents this from being an honest conversation but I am pretty sure you can figure out what I'd like to say
/edit
ps. from the last carrier nerf you promised to fix the AI and add all the buttons to the hotbar like we used to have, how about spending time on that instead we not going to care about upgrading even if you delete our pets, thank you
I'm going to try to be a voice of reason and play both sides in this thread.
First thank you Geko, for at least giving us fair warning that this was coming.
I also get the rationale behind the nerf - runabouts shouldn't have hull values that approach that of my Gal-X. It's pretty hard to argue that they should be THAT high.
I also have joked for a long time that my pets are a little..."slow" when it comes to tactics. My runabouts fly through warp core breaches, and absolutely refuse to respond to a recall command in a timely fashion. My saucer and chevron randomly decide to solo a tac cube or a gate, regardless of what anyone else on the map is doing. I haven't even used my Prometheus vectors, because I still need to STOP to use them.
I also get why NPCs were buffed. The AI is terrible. The AI will likely always be terrible. So instead of having a Sovereign class starship face off against a mirror "Noble" or whatever it is and have roughly the same HP, and abilities, the NPC has 10x the HP as your own ship.
Pet AI is terrible - should it not also have scaling HP to compensate somewhat? (Maybe not 60K Danubes, but something to ensure some survivability)
Or NPC HP could stand to be brought back down some, to compensate for having to respawn these pets that clearly didn't have the intelligence to get out of the way of t he shiny warp core breaches?
In short, by all means nerf my pets' HP. Hopefully not as far back as "pre-DR", as we are now in a Level 50+ world. Please tell me when to expect my pets AI and "controlling" improvements? We can start with having pets do what they are told, within a few seconds (ie attack my target, defend me, return to repair). Let me control my saucer as well, and I'd be pretty happy.
Not sure. I'm on the fence on this. I'll have to wait and see how the function post tweak. My delta flyers are pure crowd control so if this change affects that, I might be a bit disappointed. But like I said, we'll see first.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Yeah, you go on and hold on to that "promise" and let it warm your winter nights .
Other players will be out in the cold waiting for their secondary deflectors and craftable modifiers on weapons .
... it's all coming .... any day now ...:o
Yeah, any 'promises' we receive should be treaded as a 'guide' that we maybe, someday get it. Especially if it's something that benefits the player.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
this smacks of more "playing as intended" nonsense...what's going to happen next; players DPS too high and they will get nerfed as well?
DING DING DING ...
See this game, as it is might in theory have been balanced if good players and medium players and bad players all played together , to bring about an average of DPS .
However ... one day , a group of good players decided that they no longer wanted to play with the rest and indeed they only wanted to play with players like themselves .
That among other things is what created the wild imbalance in performance that we see today , a performance that is much more difficult to balance the game for .
Good job Geko. I think we're seeing a pattern here: Nerf now so you can monetize later. You've got game breaking bugs going but continue ignore them to fix stuffs that are not at all a priority. Cryptic continues to reinforce my decision of not spending any money on the game since DR.
There has to be another way to ensure customers are spending money on new content while allowing other players to enjoy the variety of builds and weapons in the game for enjoyment. I can't shake this feeling that more and more of late I'm being forced into a certain build. Out of all of the variety and gear in this game is there really only one way we are supposed to play this game?
I wouldn't wait for it. If I recall correctly, a dev statement (some time ago, mind you) was that separation pets are meant to be only gimmicks and are designed to be inferior to carrier pets, since carrier pets are what people pay for (elite pets).
These "gimmicks" consume a console slot and reduce my ship stats. They should be at least useful for more than just 3 seconds during a battle.
Next to that why do they consume a console slot at all?
That are standard features of these ships... saucer separation is not something that has to be build into the ships after they are constructed... that feature is part of the ship just like cloaks are standard feature of romulan warbirds or klingon ships.
The need for a console slot is ridiculous.
and about the other pets...
cryptic has created npc ships with half a million hitpoints and now is telling me that the 3000 hit points of my scorpion fighters is overpowered?
REALLY?!?
Yeah, you go on and hold on to that "promise" and let it warm your winter nights .
Other players will be out in the cold waiting for their secondary deflectors and craftable modifiers on weapons .
... it's all coming .... any day now ...:o
Yes, while we also still wait for a crafting revamp. And a Constellation-class ship. And a trait revamp. And raider flanking. And a rep revamp that makes it easier to do rep on alts. And a decent Raptor. And swimsuits. And a Romulan faction. And a kit revamp. And more Voyager voice actors. And a Fleet Galaxy-X.
OH WAIT WE DID GET ALL THAT. You just wanted to cheery pick all the things we haven't got yet, mind you that gets greatly outweighed by the things they promised us and HAVE gotten. And you want me to believe that the odds are we won't get a starship R&D school...?
I'm steeling myself for the probable "we won't reduce pets anymore" being used to try and pass off some kind of horrific nerf of a different kind while everyone "is feeling thankful".
If you stop yourself from TRIBBLE up massively at your work, your boss doesn't give you a raise. He just holds off on reprimanding you *this time*.
Folks who keep defending cryptic it's like they have battered player syndrome "it's not the devs fault it mine I didn't read his mind and know that my play style corrupted his vision"
I understand nerfing the HP because 70k-80k hull on frigates and danubes is a bit much.
I don't understand nerfing damage when NPCs have a crazy pool of hp and shields now.
Also of special note:
The Tal'Kyr Support Craft and Work Bee CMU don't scale much from 50-60. By the time you reach 60 they heal for about 350 per tic which isn't much at all compared to how much hull ships have now.
Thats hilarious. Instead of just fixing the really OP pets (Drones, Narcine pets, Mesh weavers, JHAS), they hit all pets with the nerfbat, even those far away from being OP.
And the best part is: Again something which wont scratch us DPS-People, but heavily affects casuals and newer players.
Sure, go ahead lizard. Overpowered pets are TOP PRIORITY.
Good this game has no other issues right now.
EXACTLY!! At least you guys can play with you're pets...since DR, I can't play more than 2 minutes without getting a FATAL: Direct3D error and C2D. I never had this problem till the DR expansion, but yes, let's worry about our pets....:mad::mad::mad::mad:
We will be making some changes to Carrier Pets (e.g. Peregrine Fighters, To'Duj Fighter, Klingon Bird of Prey Pets, etc.), separation pets (like a Galaxy separated saucer, MVAM Pets, and TalKyr Support craft, etc.), as well as similarly related pets (like the Odyssey Work Bees, consumable device Scorpion Fighters, Gorn Healing Platform Drones, etc.). All these items are leveless items and all these pets were using incorrect data that was causing their HP, shields, damage and healing to be too high. In some cases, the sum of the players pets were far outperforming the players ship itself. The HP, shields, damage, healing and related values for these pets are all being reduced to scale more consistently with other player gear.
Pets that are not affected are those that deal damage based on the player, instead of independent data. Changing these pets would have no affect since they are already using player data (e.g. Andorian Wing Cannons, Avenger VATA torpedo, Bio-neural Warhead, etc.).
This change only affects pets, and not the playable versions of any of these ships (e.g. the playable Jem Hadar Attack Ship and Danube Runabout are not affected).
Here is a complete list of all pets that are affected. If a pet is missed, it is probably a mistake. Please let us know, and we will look into it.
Really? Pets are outperforming the players? Ummm...perhaps that is because the players that are out performed don't read how to build a basic ship? Come on, my tholian pets 4 only pump 500 dps...so maybe the players that don't know how to build a ship should be nerfed and leave the pets alone.
I'm sure this post will get lost in the sea of tears, but is there something wrong with the amount of agro pets generate right now? I've noticed over the past few nights that my Tal'Kyr now draws a ton of agro. I don't remember this even happening prior to the expansion. It only has that little turret to plink away with, which even with this bug I don't see doing all that much damage, so I don't understand why enemies are prioritizing my support craft over me and other players actively damaging them.
Well, I don't know.
I launch my oddy saucer or my scorpion fighters and within seconds they are all dead.
Then I have to wait ages for them to respawn (if possible at all -> *cough* bugged odyssey chevron separation).
What is this nerf supposed to do now?
Destroy my saucer while still being docked?
The launch button will be converted into a self destruct. 5 seconds after launch all fighters will implode automatically. It will save NPCs the trouble of giving them a cold stare, which right now is often enough to kill them.
At this rate, throwing Tribble's out an airlock in the direction of enemies are going to do more DPS than any my ships! I DO NOT want to fly a Scimitar with BFAW and dual Aux2Bat in order to do reasonable damage! :mad:
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i wonder if all those nerfs are just stealth attempt to kill the game by forcing all the players out, then pretending it's their fault.
if they do it this way, the record will be "players stopped playing the game, which left us no choice but to close it since nobody was playing it. we're not at fault here" so they'll get away clean, ready to go work on a cookie cutter anime mmo of their dreams.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I understand nerfing the HP because 70k-80k hull on frigates and danubes is a bit much.
I don't understand nerfing damage when NPCs have a crazy pool of hp and shields now.
Also of special note:
The Tal'Kyr Support Craft and Work Bee CMU don't scale much from 50-60. By the time you reach 60 they heal for about 350 per tic which isn't much at all compared to how much hull ships have now.
frigate pets were basically a NPC frigate in stats/weapons, if they're too strong, then its because npc frigs are also too strong. :rolleyes:
Comments
I've taken care of my own nerfing this week. I nerfed my subscription and the budget I allot for STO. I was paying for enjoyment and it's not working as intended.
[SIGPIC]Click here to visit my STO YouTube channel[/SIGPIC]
Yeah, you go on and hold on to that "promise" and let it warm your winter nights .
Other players will be out in the cold waiting for their secondary deflectors and craftable modifiers on weapons .
... it's all coming .... any day now ...:o
So the metrics are saying people with carriers are ignoring the upgrading weapons dil toll eh.
I was wondering which feature you'd ruin next, I had my money on contraband but okay
HOW ABOUT YOU SPEND TIME FIXING THE AI INSTEAD
Unfortunately forum rules prevents this from being an honest conversation but I am pretty sure you can figure out what I'd like to say
/edit
ps. from the last carrier nerf you promised to fix the AI and add all the buttons to the hotbar like we used to have, how about spending time on that instead we not going to care about upgrading even if you delete our pets, thank you
First thank you Geko, for at least giving us fair warning that this was coming.
I also get the rationale behind the nerf - runabouts shouldn't have hull values that approach that of my Gal-X. It's pretty hard to argue that they should be THAT high.
I also have joked for a long time that my pets are a little..."slow" when it comes to tactics. My runabouts fly through warp core breaches, and absolutely refuse to respond to a recall command in a timely fashion. My saucer and chevron randomly decide to solo a tac cube or a gate, regardless of what anyone else on the map is doing. I haven't even used my Prometheus vectors, because I still need to STOP to use them.
I also get why NPCs were buffed. The AI is terrible. The AI will likely always be terrible. So instead of having a Sovereign class starship face off against a mirror "Noble" or whatever it is and have roughly the same HP, and abilities, the NPC has 10x the HP as your own ship.
Pet AI is terrible - should it not also have scaling HP to compensate somewhat? (Maybe not 60K Danubes, but something to ensure some survivability)
Or NPC HP could stand to be brought back down some, to compensate for having to respawn these pets that clearly didn't have the intelligence to get out of the way of t he shiny warp core breaches?
In short, by all means nerf my pets' HP. Hopefully not as far back as "pre-DR", as we are now in a Level 50+ world. Please tell me when to expect my pets AI and "controlling" improvements? We can start with having pets do what they are told, within a few seconds (ie attack my target, defend me, return to repair). Let me control my saucer as well, and I'd be pretty happy.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Yeah, any 'promises' we receive should be treaded as a 'guide' that we maybe, someday get it. Especially if it's something that benefits the player.
DING DING DING ...
See this game, as it is might in theory have been balanced if good players and medium players and bad players all played together , to bring about an average of DPS .
However ... one day , a group of good players decided that they no longer wanted to play with the rest and indeed they only wanted to play with players like themselves .
That among other things is what created the wild imbalance in performance that we see today , a performance that is much more difficult to balance the game for .
Oh well .
really? because truth be told I forget I even have fighters most of the time. More often than not they die from splash damage
These "gimmicks" consume a console slot and reduce my ship stats. They should be at least useful for more than just 3 seconds during a battle.
Next to that why do they consume a console slot at all?
That are standard features of these ships... saucer separation is not something that has to be build into the ships after they are constructed... that feature is part of the ship just like cloaks are standard feature of romulan warbirds or klingon ships.
The need for a console slot is ridiculous.
and about the other pets...
cryptic has created npc ships with half a million hitpoints and now is telling me that the 3000 hit points of my scorpion fighters is overpowered?
REALLY?!?
Elite siphon bugged
Shield repair units bugged
UI missing (attack, defend buttons were promised to be available as they were before the first carrier nerf)
And yeah hilarious with the game all fubar let's go ahead and nerf some more, what difference is the extra damage going to do at this point
OH WAIT WE DID GET ALL THAT. You just wanted to cheery pick all the things we haven't got yet, mind you that gets greatly outweighed by the things they promised us and HAVE gotten. And you want me to believe that the odds are we won't get a starship R&D school...?
Besides, it wasn't a promise, it was a claim.
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If you stop yourself from TRIBBLE up massively at your work, your boss doesn't give you a raise. He just holds off on reprimanding you *this time*.
That exactly. Quoted for truth.
I don't understand nerfing damage when NPCs have a crazy pool of hp and shields now.
Also of special note:
The Tal'Kyr Support Craft and Work Bee CMU don't scale much from 50-60. By the time you reach 60 they heal for about 350 per tic which isn't much at all compared to how much hull ships have now.
can someone actually prove that tachyon drones are even in use by more than 4 people in the playerbase
and while your at it cryptic.. what is the average dps weapon loadout on a tachyon drone
smdh
And the best part is: Again something which wont scratch us DPS-People, but heavily affects casuals and newer players.
EXACTLY!! At least you guys can play with you're pets...since DR, I can't play more than 2 minutes without getting a FATAL: Direct3D error and C2D. I never had this problem till the DR expansion, but yes, let's worry about our pets....:mad::mad::mad::mad:
I believe we need to Nerf Geko..!
I'm not going spend any money...
It's not right of Cryptic to keep pissing on are Star trek game.....
My elite scorpions are FAR from immortal. On the contrary, they are usually dead within 10 seconds after launch.
The launch button will be converted into a self destruct. 5 seconds after launch all fighters will implode automatically. It will save NPCs the trouble of giving them a cold stare, which right now is often enough to kill them.
The only change I would like to see is mass removal of the devs
like put in the unemployment line....
Cryptic
Go get some talented Devs that know how to play Star trek..
as well as add new game play code...
we still waiting for a pleeping poker game.....
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if they do it this way, the record will be "players stopped playing the game, which left us no choice but to close it since nobody was playing it. we're not at fault here" so they'll get away clean, ready to go work on a cookie cutter anime mmo of their dreams.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
frigate pets were basically a NPC frigate in stats/weapons, if they're too strong, then its because npc frigs are also too strong. :rolleyes: