I find it sorta amusing that people hate any nerf whatsoever, on principle, even before the DR issues...
Anyway, regarding the pets, interesting - obviously they were never gonna be full powerhouses (no matter how good people want them to be), so perhaps this might make them little additions, like they should be.
Most MMO's have a history of taking out the Nerf Bat on things that don't need to be nerfed.
Most of the time across the MMO board, what needs to be done is either a genuine bug fix or upgrading a lesser item to genuinely fix or balance things properly out.
But... Most MMOs often also eventually find a medium close ground and actually fix bugs that are game breaking and others that have been around for years...
Cryptic, not only do they nerf the wrong things, failing to fix game breaking bugs and bugs that have lingered for years, but they blame the community of exploiting, for using something that the devs designed to work that way, while using fake non-existing bugs as reason to nerf working as intended content for a future product they will release later. A product that will likely be the same power that was nerfed off of the old "was working as intended" content.
SO! YEAH! We are a community of people who have not only had it with all the nerf batting from this MMO, but we seen it happen on other MMOs as well and we can compare how other MMOs handled their nerfing to how cryptic is handling nerfing STO.
FIX SOMETHING THAT NEEDS FIXED... LIKE THE UI ISSUES OR GRAPHICS LAG I DON'T KNOW SOME ON THAT LIST OF STUFF YOU IGNORE MAYBE LEVELING XP...FIX STUFF THAT NEEDS FIXED CARRIERS DON'T NEED NERF OR THE PETS... TALK TO MORE MORONS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW FLY THERE SHIPS CLEARLY YOU DONT PLAY THE GAME!!!:mad::mad::mad:
I cannot thank you enough Geko for this fix, please look at the thread above, and please fix the Scimitar as well it's clearly broken compliments of the above poster. As an honest player, I report exploits and items that are clearly broken or taken advantage of, through the bug section of the forums. But 'some' players clearly do not. The more balanced this game becomes with the nerfbatting the better. No players stick inside this game should be bigger than others, with the exception of their ship.
Considering carriers have almost the same DPS abilities than a non carrier ship, I don't understand why they should have pets that deal more damage than them. Carrier have the same amount of weaapons, the same amount of power level, and console than a non carrier equivalent. Some of them can even have DHC. And several of them are escort carrier, IE escort with hangar bay.
In STO, pets are an added DPS to an otherwise regular ship.
I wish the carrier would rely mostly on pets, with "pets" boff abilities replacing the usual boff abilities, for example a pets fire at will instead of the regular fire at will.
But that's not true.
???
Your carrier pets do the same amount of damage as you or more?
??? ??? ???
Would you like me to help you build your ship to do better DPS?
Assuming you are not going for a science Crowd Control build...
You know, somethings like using SV3, CRF3, BFAW3, one of those in your rotation of DEM, EPW, TT# and either APB or APO along with tactical consoles that match a singualre energy weapons type in which you use only 1 base energy weapon type and have both your enery weapons matching your tact consoles really goes a long ways to easily out DPSing your hanger pets.
It was great after that one patch where my hanger pets were being effected by my Tac. consoles, it really made them shine.
They SHOULD put this back.
All pets should be buffed by player gear/skills. That way if I want my pets to hit harder, hold better, confuse more, then I gear/spec for it and thus they get better.
Considering carriers have almost the same DPS abilities than a non carrier ship, I don't understand why they should have pets that deal more damage than them. Carrier have the same amount of weaapons, the same amount of power level, and console than a non carrier equivalent. Some of them can even have DHC. And several of them are escort carrier, IE escort with hangar bay.
In STO, pets are an added DPS to an otherwise regular ship.
I wish the carrier would rely mostly on pets, with "pets" boff abilities replacing the usual boff abilities, for example a pets fire at will instead of the regular fire at will.
But that's not true.
carriers also move more slowly then most ships meaning that anything smaller and more maneuverable can get away that is why they need weaponry. I dont know about you but when i use a carrier I use it like a tank (because that is what it is) you can't move quickly so you have to compensate you turn it in a circle (well most users do.. ) and dont tend to move quickly. You can have some improved manueuverability but in the end the thing that makes carriers vulnerable is because they lack the speed and maneuverability as those other ships so they need a few extra pets to give them a fighting chance. That being said I dont know if they should out dps the mother ship but they are there for a reason what I find wierd is that the logic for giving carriers extra pets seems to have gotten lost because they started giving pets to more manueverable ships. There are also the consumables that you can use on top of it all so no need for a carrier anymore just stock up on consumable pets and keep your highly maneuverable ship
I Disagree. The NPC is an enemy. Pets are gear. we can launch more pets. When the npc is dead it is dead. Pets are not meant to draw aggro and tank. They are meant to supplement our builds. Do they die from scatter volley and Faw yes but not all npcs use it.
Pets can change their behavior based on commands we give them. NPC cannot.
We can heal pets even though we do not. Npc don't have that option.
Comparing pets to npcs is not entirely fair.
Are they always on? No. Then they're not FULLY gear. Do they encounter difficulties in performing for the same reason that NPCs have difficulty in performing? Yes? Then they deserve a fraction of the advantage that NPCs are given statistically. Not the whole advantage but a fraction of it.
A lot of people are just jumping on the hate bandwagon, without actually reading into what's been stated by Geko in this thread. He announced a fix to an obvious bug that should happen in 2 or 3 weeks. It's not about nerfing anything, it's about rectifying something that is broken and that received an unintended buff due to the level increase.
I get it that a lot of carrier captains have complaints about the effectiveness of the carrier pets, but that's another discussion that should be opened with the devs.
However this thread is simply announcing that a bug will be fixed in advance, trying to prevent everyone from being shocked and ranting when it hits holodeck 3 weeks from now which is good on the devs' part for a change. Much of the hate in this thread is just throwing tantrums and undeserved on this particular issue.
A lot of people are just jumping on the hate bandwagon, without actually reading into what's been stated by Geko in this thread. He announced a fix to an obvious bug that should happen in 2 or 3 weeks. It's not about nerfing anything, it's about rectifying something that is broken and that received an unintended buff due to the level increase.
I get it that a lot of carrier captains have complaints about the effectiveness of the carrier pets, but that's another discussion that should be opened with the devs.
However this thread is simply announcing that a bug will be fixed in advance, trying to prevent everyone from being shocked and ranting when it hits holodeck 3 weeks from now which is good on the devs' part for a change. Much of the hate in this thread is just throwing tantrums and undeserved on this particular issue.
yes it is a bug they are fixing people wanted them to fix bugs quickly so they are fixing them quickly lol now they are mad that the bug is getting fixed quickly.
Most MMO's have a history of taking out the Nerf Bat on things that don't need to be nerfed.
Most of the time across the MMO board, what needs to be done is either a genuine bug fix or upgrading a lesser item to genuinely fix or balance things properly out.
But... Most MMOs often also eventually find a medium close ground and actually fix bugs that are game breaking and others that have been around for years...
Cryptic, not only do they nerf the wrong things, failing to fix game breaking bugs and bugs that have lingered for years, but they blame the community of exploiting, for using something that the devs designed to work that way, while using fake non-existing bugs as reason to nerf working as intended content for a future product they will release later. A product that will likely be the same power that was nerfed off of the old "was working as intended" content.
SO! YEAH! We are a community of people who have not only had it with all the nerf batting from this MMO, but we seen it happen on other MMOs as well and we can compare how other MMOs handled their nerfing to how cryptic is handling nerfing STO.
Well to answer one thing, bugs need to actually be reproduced (step-by-step) in many cases, before they can even find exactly what's wrong, and work to fix it. If they don't have that, they can't do that much
Especially when they have limited time to work on things they're ordered to do, or choose to do over this and that, for various reasons. Not to mention they can only work on bugs in their area, not all over the game
Anyway, having played a few MMO's, I simply don't find nerfs all that bothersome, especially in the cases of smaller things like this - the game is usually fun whether they do so or not. But that's just me, and was the source of my 'sorta amusing' comment.
But in either case, as shown later in this thread, it's not a game-wide nerf to normal HP/shield issues - it's more to address a scaling bug.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
A lot of people are just jumping on the hate bandwagon, without actually reading into what's been stated by Geko in this thread. He announced a fix to an obvious bug that should happen in 2 or 3 weeks. It's not about nerfing anything, it's about rectifying something that is broken and that received an unintended buff due to the level increase.
I get it that a lot of carrier captains have complaints about the effectiveness of the carrier pets, but that's another discussion that should be opened with the devs.
However this thread is simply announcing that a bug will be fixed in advance, trying to prevent everyone from being shocked and ranting when it hits holodeck 3 weeks from now which is good on the devs' part for a change. Much of the hate in this thread is just throwing tantrums and undeserved on this particular issue.
Unless the unintended buff is only happening in Advance and Elite queue STFs where less then lvl 60 carrier captains are receiving a massive buff to their pets or carrier captains of less then 60 level matching to a 60 player, if that is the only thing that is happening and is also the only thing being "fixed", where the STF up-scaling management is the only thing tuned down, I can't see anything more then that possibility of a bug, as being legitimate. and any FIX would have to be isolated to that possible bug alone, IF it even exist.
If that is what is going wrong, then cryptic needs to learn a lot more about transparency and the need for far more, strait forward, honesty. Cause if my plausible assumption is true, being as strait forward as I detailed it, was exactly what they should have done and not this beat around the bush thing they did.
Theoretically speaking, from the assumption that it is a level matching issue, they should have stated it this way:
"The level matching scaling system is bugged and is buffing carrier pets way to high. We are going to need to bring that down. Sorry for the inconvenience. Here is a list of the effected pets!"
Mmmmm, you will like the Undine counter command rep set with fleet RCS consoles then. I got my Falchion to 33 degrees turn rate unbuffed.
JUST IMAGINE!!!
Emergency power to engines, Aux to Dampeners and Attack pattern Omega can do for it after that!
... Well, never mind the 15 spesh points into piloting and the use of Deft Cannoner...
the one guy with a carrier has not got a fleet and his r & d is like 13 now for some but most are less. Remember though since everyone has access to something it means its a non-issue if a small ship and a carrier can equip those consoles it means they are equal still the carriers base speed is lower so its still slower. :eek:
About the only thing different about carriers were the pets and the fact that they had more hull and were tanks but these days there seems to be no real reason to fly a carrier other then they are huge ships (.. well that is about it really they are often really big ships.....)
Unless the unintended buff is only happening in Advance and Elite queue STFs where less then lvl 60 carrier captains are receiving a massive buff to their pets or carrier captains of less then 60 level matching to a 60 player, if that is the only thing that is happening and is also the only thing being "fixed", where the STF up-scaling management is the only thing tuned down, I can't see anything more then that possibility of a bug, as being legitimate. and any FIX would have to be isolated to that possible bug alone, IF it even exist.
If that is what is going wrong, then cryptic needs to learn a lot more about transparency and the need for far more, strait forward, honesty. Cause if my plausible assumption is true, being as strait forward as I detailed it, was exactly what they should have done and not this beat around the bush thing they did.
Theoretically speaking, from the assumption that it is a level matching issue, they should have stated it this way:
"The level matching scaling system is bugged and is buffing carrier pets way to high. We are going to need to bring that down, Sorry for the inconvenience."
But any communication is better than none at all, especially with these forums
Why do you feel the need to Nerf everything. Carrier pets are already smacked around like puffs with wind. Even the JH carrier pets are pretty useless on the new content. Do you really want to start all the fire and hate again. After you all were doing so well with other things I have read today. As Pop's would say "Bad Show, Bad Show"!!!!
This is my first POST ever. I have been playing since day one of release of STO. I bought the lifer program a month before release of STO, years back. What I have seen in the last several weeks, since the release DR, has made me very upset. How the company has been handling things and treating their customers. That's right, I said customers, that's who we are. We are the ones paying the bill to keep you guys in business. Now comes another nerf...all I got to say is one day someone is going to wake up over there and say, where did we go wrong.
I am a Security and Guest Service Manager for a very large company and I am shaking my head and thinking to myself, you guys will fail sooner or later as a company, the way you guys treat your customers.
Yeah... That's not a bug. That is nerf herding. That player is so much more capable then an NPC and Hanger Pet that the complaining player who posted that picture could kill the hanger pet in 1 volley.
The owner of that ship could use the skill rotation of DEM, EPW, TT#, either APO or APB and then either CRF3 or CSV3 and kill even an 80k/100k Hanger pet in 1 attack.
Its a picture of someone with 5 Dyson Fleet Tactical consoles with a bunch of consoles to buff crit topped of with at least Mk 12 very rare dual heavy cannons. With the dual heavy cannons alone, this ship owner has +20% crit severity. And this person is likely using crit chance tact console, so the ship owner is going to be critting a lot and critting hard! Especially if that ship owner focused on CrtD cannons to boost crit severity even more. With all those crit consoles, that player is likely already over 15% crit chance form consoles alone.
Yeah... That's not a bug. That is nerf herding. That player is so much more capable then an NPC and Hanger Pet that the complaining player who posted that picture could kill the hanger pet in 1 volley.
The owner of that ship could use the skill rotation of DEM, EPW, TT#, either APO or APB and then either CRF3 or CSV3 and kill even an 80k/100k Hanger pet in 1 attack.
But considering the thousands-only level of health in Hanger Pets, compared to ships, that's dangerous high health for a pet to have - and certainly above anything intended.
So it's not really a nerf, because their usual values will remain intact (even get a little stronger at lvl 60 than at lvl 50); this overscaling will simply be corrected. The fact that the player could kill it easily (his own pet, not an enemy mind you) is irrelevant imo
Why do you feel the need to Nerf everything. Carrier pets are already smacked around like puffs with wind. Even the JH carrier pets are pretty useless on the new content. Do you really want to start all the fire and hate again. After you all were doing so well with other things I have read today. As Pop's would say "Bad Show, Bad Show"!!!!
This is my first POST ever. I have been playing since day one of release of STO. I bought the lifer program a month before release of STO, years back. What I have seen in the last several weeks, since the release DR, has made me very upset. How the company has been handling things and treating their customers. That's right, I said customers, that's who we are. We are the ones paying the bill to keep you guys in business. Now comes another nerf...all I got to say is one day someone is going to wake up over there and say, where did we go wrong.
I am a Security and Guest Service Manager for a very large company and I am shaking my head and thinking to myself, you guys will fail sooner or later as a company, the way you guys treat your customers.
I very sad for you guys...
Guys, they're correcting an over-scaling bug on Pets HP/Shield values, not nerfing their usual ones. An example of this is seen here: http://i.imgur.com/EWK9fzS.png
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Most MMO's have a history of taking out the Nerf Bat on things that don't need to be nerfed.
Most of the time across the MMO board, what needs to be done is either a genuine bug fix or upgrading a lesser item to genuinely fix or balance things properly out.
A lot of people are just jumping on the hate bandwagon, without actually reading into what's been stated by Geko in this thread. He announced a fix to an obvious bug that should happen in 2 or 3 weeks. It's not about nerfing anything, it's about rectifying something that is broken and that received an unintended buff due to the level increase.
I get it that a lot of carrier captains have complaints about the effectiveness of the carrier pets, but that's another discussion that should be opened with the devs.
However this thread is simply announcing that a bug will be fixed in advance, trying to prevent everyone from being shocked and ranting when it hits holodeck 3 weeks from now which is good on the devs' part for a change. Much of the hate in this thread is just throwing tantrums and undeserved on this particular issue.
I had to browse through 51 pages of dribble to finally find a reasonable post at the end.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
But considering the thousands-only level of health in Hanger Pets, compared to ships, that's dangerous high health for a pet to have - and certainly above anything intended.
So it's not really a nerf, because their usual values will remain intact (even get a little stronger at lvl 60 than at lvl 50); this overscaling will simply be corrected. The fact that the player could kill it easily (his own pet, not an enemy mind you) is irrelevant imo
It is relevant cause it shows his intent for posting is not genuine.
What makes you believe the pets are over scaling, out side of a possible miscalculation in team level matching and STF level matching up-scaling? Because of that other posters picture? Because you don't like seeing a dumb hanger pet with more hull then your ship to compensate for the pets lack of since? Because you heard a dev say "we need to nerf this?" Are you a paid troll receiving a paycheck to propagandize things? Are you a hobbyist troll who simply sees it as an art forum?
When all the facts are considered about the technical abilities of the hanger pets and how things usually go for most players, there simply is no reason to down scale the pets, outside of a bugged level matching up-scaling problem.
You do realize that player is only showing his hull points right? He has his menu open showing his ships base hull in the ship character sheet while targeting himself and with the mouse scroll over showing the difference in how his targeting reticule shows his hull health as 76,677 while his ship stat sheet shows him with 56,730 hull. You do realize that right?
It is relevant cause it shows his intent for posting is not genuine.
What makes you believe the pets are over scaling, out side of a possible miscalculation in team level matching and STF level matching up-scaling? Because of that other posters picture? Because you don't like seeing a dumb hanger pet with more hull then your ship to compensate for the pets lack of since? Because you heard a dev say "we need to nerf this?" Are you a paid troll receiving a paycheck to propagandize things? Are you a hobbyist troll who simply sees it as an art forum?
When all the facts are considered about the technical abilities of the hanger pets and how things usually go for most players, there simply is no reason to down scale the pets, outside of a bugged level matching up-scaling problem.
I don't know how you can assume that angle as releveant, or what reason you have for the sudden hostility during a genuine argument, but I don't really agree.
When it comes to pet health scaling, they've been consistent at the levels, being at thousands-level health, with small increases every level. That is a fact. Now suddenly at lvl 60 or similar, they have high ten-thousands of health, which small increases could not (and should not) account for. I call that over-scaling, certainly believe it's not intended, and should be corrected imo, my personal feelings about the high health aside.
And besides, where is your proof that Geko's gonna nerf their usual values in addition to the overscaling issues?
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I don't know how you can assume that angle as releveant, or what reason you have for the sudden hostility during a genuine argument, but I don't really agree.
When it comes to pet health scaling, they've been consistent at the levels, being at thousands-level health, with small increases every level. That is a fact. Now suddenly at lvl 60 or similar, they have high ten-thousands of health, which small increases could not (and should not) account for.
I call that over-scaling, certainly believe it's not intended, and should be corrected imo. And besides, where is your proof that he's gonna nerf their usual values in addition to the overscaling issues?
Well, you got an entire community that is fetup with how weak the pets used to be nearly nothing more then cannon fodder for enemy NPCs too shoot at as a distraction for only a moment. So if that accidental up-scaling made them more useful then cannon fodder for once and not in a game breaking way, then why "FIX" something that by accident fix another problem that existed to begin with? ESPECIALLY when you have bugs that are very clearly game breaking, that have been around for a while and likely have more then enough bug reports to have been replicated over and over and over again to where that bug should have been patched out a long time ago and still isn't.
Well, you got an entire community that is fetup with how weak the pets used to be nearly nothing more then cannon fodder for enemy NPCs too shoot at as a distraction for only a moment. So if that accidental up-scaling made them more useful then cannon fodder for once and not in a game breaking way, then why "FIX" something that by accident fix another problem that existed to begin with? ESPECIALLY when you have bugs that are very clearly game breaking, that have been around for a while and likley have more then enough bug reports to have been replicated over and over and over again to where that bug should have been patched out a long time ago and still isn't.
Maybe you don't consider 'some Pets out-performing Player ships' as game-breaking, but either way, those values were completely out-of-line with their previous ones. That I call a bug
Them being more useful is a good discussion, and should be pursued, but it should be done with intentional changes - not short-term bugs we can exploit imo. And I kinda liked the high health as much as anyone, but sometimes that's not enough
Plus as far as the other bugs, they've got priorities, limited time, orders, etc etc to deal with in addition to the whole 'need to replicate the bugs themselves to start to know how to tackle them' angle - it's a complicated issue, and certainly more than it appears to us
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
What makes you believe the pets are over scaling, out side of a possible miscalculation in team level matching and STF level matching up-scaling? Because of that other posters picture? Because you don't like seeing a dumb hanger pet with more hull then your ship to compensate for the pets lack of since? Because you heard a dev say "we need to nerf this?" Are you a paid troll receiving a paycheck to propagandize things? Are you a hobbyist troll who simply sees it as an art forum?
I'll just say this for the sake of information, when people on reddit post that their mobulais have 115k hull, do 10 to 15k DPS and have crits between 20 and 30k you know that something is definitely way off with the pets and how they scaled. Now enter the recent level increase in the equation and it's very obvious where this originated from.
And in case you're wondering about my intentions as well, first of all I'm a KDF player so that should tell a lot by itself. Secondly you can ask around if I'm a Cryptic fanboy, I've bashed them on multiple ocassions when they've wronged - especially Geko. What I see here is a bug fix. It may not be a popular one for some relevant reasons, but it still is a bug fix.
The effectiveness of the carrier pets should be discussed if carrier captains feel strongly about their prefomance or lack of, but being angry at the devs. about a bugfix because it provided a buff that was unintended is poor form. We've been screaming at them to fix stuff and when they decide to fix something our response shouldn't be being angry at them for that.
Maybe you don't consider 'some Pets out-performing Player ships' as game-breaking, but either way, those values were completely out-of-line with their previous ones. That I call a bug
Them being more useful is a good discussion, and should be pursued, but it should be done with intentional changes - not short-term bugs we can exploit imo. And I kinda liked the high health as much as anyone, but sometimes that's not enough
Plus as far as the other bugs, they've got priorities, limited time, etc etc - we don't control which get fixed and when
Who is being out preformed?
Why are they being out preformed?
Did they make a science crowd control build not meant to deal DPS?
Do they not know about all the querks of there skills to know how to stack the buffs to maximize their DPS?
Are the people being out preformed because they are mixing energy types and not buffing it up with matching tactical consoles?
If Cryptic is being like the Obama administration, they may very well be using players who DPS is low do to those players lack of understanding about their ship builds. at that point we are being strait up lied to and given a bogus excuse to scale down the hanger pets.
Who is being out preformed?
Why are they being out preformed?
Did they make a science crowd control build not meant to deal DPS?
Do they not know about all the querks of there skills to know how to stack the buffs to maximize their DPS?
Are the people being out preformed because they are mixing energy types and not buffing it up with matching tactical consoles?
If Cryptic is being like the Obama administration, they may very well be using players who DPS is low do to those players lack of understanding about their ship builds. at that point we are being strait up lied to and given a bogus excuse to scale down the hanger pets.
I still think you're missing the point; this overscaling is not intended, by any means and should be corrected - the effectiveness of players' builds has little to do with such a core issue imo. And it will be corrected, but the hangers usual effectiveness at lvl 60 will be left the same.
You want them to be more useful, which is great and your right to want so, but this is not the way to go about it (by exploiting bugs, and demanding that a bug which misguidedly does so in your opinion be kept).
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I'll just say this for the sake of information, when people on reddit post that their mobulais have 115k hull, do 10 to 15k DPS and have crits between 20 and 30k you know that something is definitely way off with the pets and how they scaled. Now enter the recent level increase in the equation and it's very obvious where this originated from.
And in case you're wondering about my intentions as well, first of all I'm a KDF player so that should tell a lot by itself. Secondly you can ask around if I'm a Cryptic fanboy, I've bashed them on multiple ocassions when they've wronged - especially Geko. What I see here is a bug fix. It may not be a popular one for some relevant reasons, but it still is a bug fix.
The effectiveness of the carrier pets should be discussed if carrier captains feel strongly about their prefomance or lack of, but being angry at the devs. about a bugfix because it provided a buff that was unintended is poor form. We've been screaming at them to fix stuff and when they decide to fix something our response shouldn't be being angry at them for that.
And how is the Xindi Console set bonus being calculated into that? You do know that those ships and that console set bonus has a powerful AoE effect, that gets multiples by how many ships are in the local area right?
It is very possible that the DPS gained from the Xindi console set AoE is the reason for those higher DPS numbers and not the Mobulai it self. why have we only heard of this happening with the Mobulai?
It is very possible that the DPS gained from the Xindi console set AoE is the reason for those higher DPS numbers and not the Mobulai it self. why have we only heard of this happening with the Mobulai?
It's not only the mobulai. From what I read on a reddit thread, it's other pets as well. Off the top of my head I remember people mentioning their mesh weavers are vastly overpreforming as well.
What it seems though, is that the bug doesn't happen to everyone. It still needs a fix though, being a bug and all. I'm one of the lucky ones to not be hit by the tray reset bug. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.
I still think you're missing the point; this overscaling is not intended, by any means and should be corrected - the effectiveness of players' builds has little to do with such a core issue imo. And it will be corrected, but the hangers usual effectiveness at lvl 60 will be left the same.
You want them to be more useful, which is great and your right to want so, but this is not the way to go about it (by exploiting bugs, and demanding that a bug which misguidedly does so in your opinion be kept).
Even if it is a bug, why prioritize such a small one over other far more game breaking bugs in which a lot of time to identify has passed to have replicated those bugs several times, more then enough time and room for testing to have fixed those larger game breaking bugs that yell kick and scream higher priority?
Comments
Most MMO's have a history of taking out the Nerf Bat on things that don't need to be nerfed.
Most of the time across the MMO board, what needs to be done is either a genuine bug fix or upgrading a lesser item to genuinely fix or balance things properly out.
But... Most MMOs often also eventually find a medium close ground and actually fix bugs that are game breaking and others that have been around for years...
Cryptic, not only do they nerf the wrong things, failing to fix game breaking bugs and bugs that have lingered for years, but they blame the community of exploiting, for using something that the devs designed to work that way, while using fake non-existing bugs as reason to nerf working as intended content for a future product they will release later. A product that will likely be the same power that was nerfed off of the old "was working as intended" content.
SO! YEAH! We are a community of people who have not only had it with all the nerf batting from this MMO, but we seen it happen on other MMOs as well and we can compare how other MMOs handled their nerfing to how cryptic is handling nerfing STO.
The Scimitar has 8 weapon slots. The Armitage has 7. Both can use DHCs and have a hangar bay.
The Kar'Fi, Atrox and Vo'Quv have 6 weapon slots, and 2 hangar slots.
A bog standard Science Vessel has 6 weapon slots, no hanger slots.
The Vesta is like a bog standard Science Vessel, except it has also one hangar slot.
Pets don't need to be that great, and what ship needs some extra carrier pet punch and which not is vastly different.
I cannot thank you enough Geko for this fix, please look at the thread above, and please fix the Scimitar as well it's clearly broken compliments of the above poster. As an honest player, I report exploits and items that are clearly broken or taken advantage of, through the bug section of the forums. But 'some' players clearly do not. The more balanced this game becomes with the nerfbatting the better. No players stick inside this game should be bigger than others, with the exception of their ship.
Thanks for all you devs do.
???
Your carrier pets do the same amount of damage as you or more?
??? ??? ???
Would you like me to help you build your ship to do better DPS?
Assuming you are not going for a science Crowd Control build...
You know, somethings like using SV3, CRF3, BFAW3, one of those in your rotation of DEM, EPW, TT# and either APB or APO along with tactical consoles that match a singualre energy weapons type in which you use only 1 base energy weapon type and have both your enery weapons matching your tact consoles really goes a long ways to easily out DPSing your hanger pets.
They SHOULD put this back.
All pets should be buffed by player gear/skills. That way if I want my pets to hit harder, hold better, confuse more, then I gear/spec for it and thus they get better.
Please put it back...
...#LLAP...
carriers also move more slowly then most ships meaning that anything smaller and more maneuverable can get away that is why they need weaponry. I dont know about you but when i use a carrier I use it like a tank (because that is what it is) you can't move quickly so you have to compensate you turn it in a circle (well most users do.. ) and dont tend to move quickly. You can have some improved manueuverability but in the end the thing that makes carriers vulnerable is because they lack the speed and maneuverability as those other ships so they need a few extra pets to give them a fighting chance. That being said I dont know if they should out dps the mother ship but they are there for a reason what I find wierd is that the logic for giving carriers extra pets seems to have gotten lost because they started giving pets to more manueverable ships. There are also the consumables that you can use on top of it all so no need for a carrier anymore just stock up on consumable pets and keep your highly maneuverable ship
Mmmmm, you will like the Undine counter command rep set with fleet RCS consoles then. I got my Falchion to 33 degrees turn rate unbuffed.
JUST IMAGINE!!!
Emergency power to engines, Aux to Dampeners and Attack pattern Omega can do for it after that!
... Well, never mind the 15 spesh points into piloting and the use of Deft Cannoner...
Are they always on? No. Then they're not FULLY gear. Do they encounter difficulties in performing for the same reason that NPCs have difficulty in performing? Yes? Then they deserve a fraction of the advantage that NPCs are given statistically. Not the whole advantage but a fraction of it.
This is what I meant earlier in this thread.
A lot of people are just jumping on the hate bandwagon, without actually reading into what's been stated by Geko in this thread. He announced a fix to an obvious bug that should happen in 2 or 3 weeks. It's not about nerfing anything, it's about rectifying something that is broken and that received an unintended buff due to the level increase.
I get it that a lot of carrier captains have complaints about the effectiveness of the carrier pets, but that's another discussion that should be opened with the devs.
However this thread is simply announcing that a bug will be fixed in advance, trying to prevent everyone from being shocked and ranting when it hits holodeck 3 weeks from now which is good on the devs' part for a change. Much of the hate in this thread is just throwing tantrums and undeserved on this particular issue.
yes it is a bug they are fixing people wanted them to fix bugs quickly so they are fixing them quickly lol now they are mad that the bug is getting fixed quickly.
Especially when they have limited time to work on things they're ordered to do, or choose to do over this and that, for various reasons. Not to mention they can only work on bugs in their area, not all over the game
Anyway, having played a few MMO's, I simply don't find nerfs all that bothersome, especially in the cases of smaller things like this - the game is usually fun whether they do so or not. But that's just me, and was the source of my 'sorta amusing' comment.
But in either case, as shown later in this thread, it's not a game-wide nerf to normal HP/shield issues - it's more to address a scaling bug.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Unless the unintended buff is only happening in Advance and Elite queue STFs where less then lvl 60 carrier captains are receiving a massive buff to their pets or carrier captains of less then 60 level matching to a 60 player, if that is the only thing that is happening and is also the only thing being "fixed", where the STF up-scaling management is the only thing tuned down, I can't see anything more then that possibility of a bug, as being legitimate. and any FIX would have to be isolated to that possible bug alone, IF it even exist.
If that is what is going wrong, then cryptic needs to learn a lot more about transparency and the need for far more, strait forward, honesty. Cause if my plausible assumption is true, being as strait forward as I detailed it, was exactly what they should have done and not this beat around the bush thing they did.
Theoretically speaking, from the assumption that it is a level matching issue, they should have stated it this way:
"The level matching scaling system is bugged and is buffing carrier pets way to high. We are going to need to bring that down. Sorry for the inconvenience. Here is a list of the effected pets!"
the one guy with a carrier has not got a fleet and his r & d is like 13 now for some but most are less. Remember though since everyone has access to something it means its a non-issue if a small ship and a carrier can equip those consoles it means they are equal still the carriers base speed is lower so its still slower. :eek:
About the only thing different about carriers were the pets and the fact that they had more hull and were tanks but these days there seems to be no real reason to fly a carrier other then they are huge ships (.. well that is about it really they are often really big ships.....)
And anyway, the bug does exist in some form, as another posted here: http://i.imgur.com/EWK9fzS.png
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I am a Security and Guest Service Manager for a very large company and I am shaking my head and thinking to myself, you guys will fail sooner or later as a company, the way you guys treat your customers.
I very sad for you guys...
Yeah... That's not a bug. That is nerf herding. That player is so much more capable then an NPC and Hanger Pet that the complaining player who posted that picture could kill the hanger pet in 1 volley.
The owner of that ship could use the skill rotation of DEM, EPW, TT#, either APO or APB and then either CRF3 or CSV3 and kill even an 80k/100k Hanger pet in 1 attack.
Its a picture of someone with 5 Dyson Fleet Tactical consoles with a bunch of consoles to buff crit topped of with at least Mk 12 very rare dual heavy cannons. With the dual heavy cannons alone, this ship owner has +20% crit severity. And this person is likely using crit chance tact console, so the ship owner is going to be critting a lot and critting hard! Especially if that ship owner focused on CrtD cannons to boost crit severity even more. With all those crit consoles, that player is likely already over 15% crit chance form consoles alone.
So it's not really a nerf, because their usual values will remain intact (even get a little stronger at lvl 60 than at lvl 50); this overscaling will simply be corrected. The fact that the player could kill it easily (his own pet, not an enemy mind you) is irrelevant imo Guys, they're correcting an over-scaling bug on Pets HP/Shield values, not nerfing their usual ones. An example of this is seen here: http://i.imgur.com/EWK9fzS.png
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Reminds me of Bus Shock...
I had to browse through 51 pages of dribble to finally find a reasonable post at the end.
It is relevant cause it shows his intent for posting is not genuine.
What makes you believe the pets are over scaling, out side of a possible miscalculation in team level matching and STF level matching up-scaling? Because of that other posters picture? Because you don't like seeing a dumb hanger pet with more hull then your ship to compensate for the pets lack of since? Because you heard a dev say "we need to nerf this?" Are you a paid troll receiving a paycheck to propagandize things? Are you a hobbyist troll who simply sees it as an art forum?
When all the facts are considered about the technical abilities of the hanger pets and how things usually go for most players, there simply is no reason to down scale the pets, outside of a bugged level matching up-scaling problem.
You do realize that player is only showing his hull points right? He has his menu open showing his ships base hull in the ship character sheet while targeting himself and with the mouse scroll over showing the difference in how his targeting reticule shows his hull health as 76,677 while his ship stat sheet shows him with 56,730 hull. You do realize that right?
He isn't targeting a hanger pet.
When it comes to pet health scaling, they've been consistent at the levels, being at thousands-level health, with small increases every level. That is a fact. Now suddenly at lvl 60 or similar, they have high ten-thousands of health, which small increases could not (and should not) account for. I call that over-scaling, certainly believe it's not intended, and should be corrected imo, my personal feelings about the high health aside.
And besides, where is your proof that Geko's gonna nerf their usual values in addition to the overscaling issues?
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Well, you got an entire community that is fetup with how weak the pets used to be nearly nothing more then cannon fodder for enemy NPCs too shoot at as a distraction for only a moment. So if that accidental up-scaling made them more useful then cannon fodder for once and not in a game breaking way, then why "FIX" something that by accident fix another problem that existed to begin with? ESPECIALLY when you have bugs that are very clearly game breaking, that have been around for a while and likely have more then enough bug reports to have been replicated over and over and over again to where that bug should have been patched out a long time ago and still isn't.
Them being more useful is a good discussion, and should be pursued, but it should be done with intentional changes - not short-term bugs we can exploit imo. And I kinda liked the high health as much as anyone, but sometimes that's not enough
Plus as far as the other bugs, they've got priorities, limited time, orders, etc etc to deal with in addition to the whole 'need to replicate the bugs themselves to start to know how to tackle them' angle - it's a complicated issue, and certainly more than it appears to us
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I'll just say this for the sake of information, when people on reddit post that their mobulais have 115k hull, do 10 to 15k DPS and have crits between 20 and 30k you know that something is definitely way off with the pets and how they scaled. Now enter the recent level increase in the equation and it's very obvious where this originated from.
And in case you're wondering about my intentions as well, first of all I'm a KDF player so that should tell a lot by itself.
The effectiveness of the carrier pets should be discussed if carrier captains feel strongly about their prefomance or lack of, but being angry at the devs. about a bugfix because it provided a buff that was unintended is poor form. We've been screaming at them to fix stuff and when they decide to fix something our response shouldn't be being angry at them for that.
Who is being out preformed?
Why are they being out preformed?
Did they make a science crowd control build not meant to deal DPS?
Do they not know about all the querks of there skills to know how to stack the buffs to maximize their DPS?
Are the people being out preformed because they are mixing energy types and not buffing it up with matching tactical consoles?
If Cryptic is being like the Obama administration, they may very well be using players who DPS is low do to those players lack of understanding about their ship builds. at that point we are being strait up lied to and given a bogus excuse to scale down the hanger pets.
You want them to be more useful, which is great and your right to want so, but this is not the way to go about it (by exploiting bugs, and demanding that a bug which misguidedly does so in your opinion be kept).
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
And how is the Xindi Console set bonus being calculated into that? You do know that those ships and that console set bonus has a powerful AoE effect, that gets multiples by how many ships are in the local area right?
It is very possible that the DPS gained from the Xindi console set AoE is the reason for those higher DPS numbers and not the Mobulai it self. why have we only heard of this happening with the Mobulai?
It's not only the mobulai. From what I read on a reddit thread, it's other pets as well. Off the top of my head I remember people mentioning their mesh weavers are vastly overpreforming as well.
What it seems though, is that the bug doesn't happen to everyone. It still needs a fix though, being a bug and all. I'm one of the lucky ones to not be hit by the tray reset bug. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.
Even if it is a bug, why prioritize such a small one over other far more game breaking bugs in which a lot of time to identify has passed to have replicated those bugs several times, more then enough time and room for testing to have fixed those larger game breaking bugs that yell kick and scream higher priority?