If it makes you feel better. I like having a sci with GW in a team when I do massive DPS. Also I like when they subnuke on time the Borg Queen in HSE etc. So to all my advise: please stop being annoyed with people who show noob behavior or symply enjoy being offensive.
GW is useful. That's why I usually take it even when I fly escorts, cruiser or carriers. I hope Fleet Eclipse gets that LtC science station.
There is nothing wrong with sci captains flying sci ships. Again cryptic made this mess.
There will always be a******s in the game. I once had a guy pm me to berate me on my use of faw, and how I was inferior. Another idiot was role playing as a racist (human league or some non-sense), and decided to berate the fact I was a Klingon and died because as usual I get all the aggro because of dps (tanking is so dead in this game). One idiot with no understanding of game mechanics does not reflect everyone that is trying to do more damage.
A dedicated sci control/healer should be an option, but if you dedicate too many boff powers to healing/control now and try isa in a pug you will fail. Cryptic did a good job railroading folks into the dps race with their floating bags of hp. It's not harder it just takes longer. I do hope they fix it. Until then I am segregating myself and doing advanced only with dps channel folks. Tired of failure, because cryptic didn't think their strategy through.
Elite is clearly advertised to require "top end gear" and a "solid build" to complete. As such, the proposal I'll put out runs clearly on said boundaries. Full slate of Mk XIV Gold and a T5U11 (equivalent to T6, remember the advertising?) ship.
Said ship, for purposes of this challenge/deal, is a T5U11 DSSV.
Why should anyone invest so many resources in such a strange build?
Btw. we are not using Aux2Battery. And there are only two (lucky crit) epic beam arrays in my build. Some of my gear is still Mk XII.
Said challenge exists for one reason, and one reason only. I am not advanced, nor arrogant, enough to dictate build-terms to the elite, min-maxxers, and PvPers - aka I want to run an X ship with Y weapons and you will cave to me. However, I am arrogant enough to request / demand that the bar for entry be built around a "low common denominator". 3/3 DSSV with 2 tactical BOff slots is low enough for me since it has the least amount of what DPS kings value, and results in a situation that nobody should be "L2Ped" out of an elite because of their ship itself, as long as it's T5U11 or better (endgame level) - since outside of an engie or sci CMDR BOffed Recluse, every other T5U11 hits this 2 Tac BOff slot and most likely 3 tac console bar. Using the suckiest weapon in the game means that someone who picks that one weapon for thematic use or it's proc (I remember being told that some of the easiest queen diamond kills in early ItHS came when me and my fleetie ran tetryon weapons and managed to proc often enough to keep the queen's shields redline thin the entire battle) won't be laughed out of a battle because of beam color. I am also arrogant enough to force these people to meet the "letter" of the advertising - Max gear and solid build - and I'm arrogant enough to define "solid skill build" as something that does not count 6s or 9s in every weapon affecting tactical skill, partially because if you're flying a science-engineering ship, your skills should be science and engineering focused, not tactical focus to everything. Forcing a "canon" build with mandatory energy and projectile mixes both fore and aft again sets a reasonable bar, fits the example of every starter build on every starship in game and allows but does not mandate all energy builds or all projectile builds.
Build the "best lemon" you can, balance for that lemon, and suddenly the intent of the Elite level is met without excluding the majority of the playerbase. Yes, there will still be that troll who insists that their "not quite best lemon but the most they want to put into the build" ship should be elite, hence majority instead of everyone. L2P commentary will be directed to people who don't actually know the game (play by the deciphered strategy that is necessary to let the 5x lemons beat the level) instead of as a discriminatory comment based solely off of weapons color or hull choice.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
There is nothing wrong with sci captains flying sci ships. Again cryptic made this mess.
There will always be a******s in the game. I once had a guy pm me to berate me on my use of faw, and how I was inferior. Another idiot was role playing as a racist (human league or some non-sense), and decided to berate the fact I was a Klingon and died because as usual I get all the aggro because of dps (tanking is so dead in this game). One idiot with no understanding of game mechanics does not reflect everyone that is trying to do more damage.
A dedicated sci control/healer should be an option, but if you dedicate too many boff powers to healing/control now and try isa in a pug you will fail. Cryptic did a good job railroading folks into the dps race with their floating bags of hp. It's not harder it just takes longer. I do hope they fix it. Until then I am segregating myself and doing advanced only with dps channel folks. Tired of failure, because cryptic didn't think their strategy through.
ISA is bad but, KSA is even worse as, 9 out of every 10 runs it seems for me in pugs, I get stuck with people who don't want to take care of the probes or, fail to realize they need be stopped from reaching the gate or, maybe don't care to stop them (as in trolling the group), I don't know!
Either way, it spells auto-fail.
I can tell you, that 8-10k dps (CC included) can barely prevent the probes (all 8 of them) from reaching the gate, when being stuck having to kill them all by yourself, whilst the other's seemingly are oblivious of them even existing.
The freaking things have some 10X the hp they used to, that's just plain TRIBBLE! (10X might be slightly incorrect but, close enough)
And CSA, wow that on goes to hell quicker than the devil himself!
I get there is some strategy involved in these mission but, even when all 5 player's are on their A game as far as what needs to be done, advanced queues still force them to have to meet a dps minimum, that is roughly 5X greater, than prior to DR!
And that, is what tends to kill the fun and enjoyment for, a multitude of people who don't feel the need or, want to be forced into narrowing their build variety, just because it doesn't put out tons of dps.
Cryptic has done a first class job of making the Que system universally unappealing to everyone. It's absolutely pathetic. Had they just left the ques as they were and simply added Elite Mode it would have satisfied everyone, everyone would have a place.
You are so very very right.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
You have to expect noob players in Advanced, those players have no choice.
They put out 'normal' mode for these players, but they cannot play that mode, it's useless to them. They need processors that they can't get in Normal Mode so new and under geared players have to play Advanced. They have no choice, there is no other way to progress.
Problem is, the way Advanced ques are now, if you get new or undergeared players in your group, you fail. It's not their fault, they have no choice but to try and compete in ques they can't handle. Crypitc is not leaving them options.
The end result is that new players get frustrated and quit because they have no way to compete, they're a constant anchor and they have no way around it.
Veteran players also quit because they're tired of failing over and over because you can't carry a low DPS party because everything takes hours to kill.
Cryptic has done a first class job of making the Que system universally unappealing to everyone. It's absolutely pathetic. Had they just left the ques as they were and simply added Elite Mode it would have satisfied everyone, everyone would have a place.
Instead they have created a DPS race that everyone loses.
Every one is able to participate if willing to meet the requirements
EliteSTF
STFRaiders
RealEliteSTF
TheHIVE
That is just a partial list of STF channels I can pull from memory that have come and gone over the years ... , and they had one thing in common -- all that was required is for you to be able to finish an STF .
Most if not all were also open to show a newbie the ropes , if one member vouched for them .
NONE had any other artificial requirements like DPS .
(there are no requirements no one can meet).
YEEEEAH ... , that's like STORyan claiming "gear is not a big deal ..." -- while simultaneously they promote builds that house Lobi consoles & Doffs that cost millions or even hundreds of millions on top of many a lockbox / zen ship .
So those builds are clearly from the poorhouse ... , because "gear doesn't really play a big role in this game" .
I have done plenty of 10k or near 10k builds on a shoe string budget. If you want to hit the max dps that someone like sarcasmdetector does yeah, you need expensive gear. General 10k dps? Rare mk Xi gear and a t5 ship is all you need. I think I have an alt with no doffs that hit 10k. 10k is not elitist or a high bar, all it requires is basic understanding of game mechanics, which as I said before cryptic does a terrible job of explaining in game.
I find it funny how people are taking offense to the DPS Channels. These guys are not Elitists, they are Elite Players, who understand the mechanics and functionality of this game to beat down whatever difficulty is presented before them.
I do respectable DPS and i've lost count since the STF's were broken up into space and ground where in KASE i've had to knock down all the cubes that get spawned as 3 pugs on 1 cube can't destroy it. Or CSE having to rescue the optional as 2 guys cannot defend against 4 BOP's or 4 guys cannot if i'm on Kang duty handle 1 station and are blowing up right,left and centre when they spawn the Negh'var and Raptor guard.
It is a pleasure playing STF's and game content with the guys from these channels as every match is a breeze and successful.
i don't have to carry 2-3 people through STF's as their firepower or crowd control/disable/debuff abilities aren't even tickling the NPC.
So you guys who are turning you're nose up at the DPS crowd thats you're choice and you're mistake to make.
I personally don't want to go playing Advanced and Elite content with someone in a Galaxy-R or a Intrepid who can't break 2000k DPS, because that means more work for me, a longer mission, and a fail doing these missions and a increased difficulty due to a poor ship build by the player.
This makes for a bad game experience for me
(I singled out the Galaxy-r and Intrepid not because i dislike these ships, but because for Higher difficulty levels their single lt tact station makes them very poor ships choices to use due to low dps potential)
Like it or not Cryptic with the increased Hitpoint and Shield wall they introduced to NPC's for DR does mean the player having to make their ship punch harder than post DR.
And remember the success of every space mission in the PvE queues relies on 2 things BEATING THE TIMER, MEANING BLOWING TARGETS UP. thats what DPS is for and the more you have the easier the game becomes
You have to expect noob players in Advanced, those players have no choice.
They put out 'normal' mode for these players, but they cannot play that mode, it's useless to them. They need processors that they can't get in Normal Mode so new and under geared players have to play Advanced. They have no choice, there is no other way to progress.
Normal doesn't give the rewards that new 50's require. Characters that are in the 'demographic' of Normal ques require items for rep gear (Neural Processors, Cybernetic Implants, etc.) Therefore, Normal ques are useless to new players beyond learning the ropes.
People keep saying this, but it's rather disingenuous. BNPs are only necessary for the Omega ground gear and the Omega space sets. APCs are only necessary for the Delta gear. There's plenty of other end-game sets that don't require either in the other reputation systems, and no other components require doing Advanced queues.
You can easily gear up elsewhere before working on getting BNPs. For example, the CC Deflector (trivial to attain IIs) and Rom Engines (no extra things required) are the general BiS, and the Nukara alternative don't need any components either. Nor does the KCB and Assimiliated console, or (obviously) the Zero-Point.
Queues are not necessary for IIs or VCIs, and are actually the worst possible way to get them in terms of effort:reward. In that vein, I'll say again that they should make BNPs rewards on Deferi, and APCs rewards on Kobali.
Build the "best lemon" you can, balance for that lemon, and suddenly the intent of the Elite level is met without excluding the majority of the playerbase. Yes, there will still be that troll who insists that their "not quite best lemon but the most they want to put into the build" ship should be elite, hence majority instead of everyone. L2P commentary will be directed to people who don't actually know the game (play by the deciphered strategy that is necessary to let the 5x lemons beat the level) instead of as a discriminatory comment based solely off of weapons color or hull choice.
This makes sense. If they're going to balance Advanced around mandatory group DPS, that number should be based on the best possible DPS from the worst possible end game ship.
That is just a partial list of STF channels I can pull from memory that have come and gone over the years ... , and they had one thing in common -- all that was required is for you to be able to finish an STF .
Most if not all were also open to show a newbie the ropes , if one member vouched for them .
NONE had any other artificial requirements like DPS .
YEEEEAH ... , that's like STORyan claiming "gear is not a big deal ..." -- while simultaneously they promote builds that house Lobi consoles & Doffs that cost millions or even hundreds of millions on top of many a lockbox / zen ship .
So those builds are clearly from the poorhouse ... , because "gear doesn't really play a big role in this game" .
Still not interested ... , so don't parse me bro.
Artificial requirement? Its a real requirement, not artificial....
Oh and those channels you listed, they had a requirement as well, guess by your definition of artificial those had artificial requirements as well, since they had requirements....As for your poorhouse comment, anyone who spends time can get any lockbox ship ever released in this game....after all they are all on the exchange, and even those ships that have been held to make scarce can be gotten by using the exchange, though some sellers might want keys in large amounts, but those keys can be gotten from the exchange....poorhouse to me means someone who cannot bother to farm what needs to be farmed to get decent gear.
If its just a matter of time, then its not they are in the poorhouse, its that they are still beginning the game. Now some who wont apply themselves to being better in the game, will stay "in the poorhouse" because they are just too lazy, IMO, to make a better situation. Before you come back saying you dont have the time to invest...well guess what, thats not my problem, I dont care, because the fact of the matter is you do have the time, it just make take you longer to get there. Guess what, taking longer at something is just that, taking longer. Its like having money, you might not have as much as I do or you might have more, but the fact is that taking more time is the only way you are going to get more of it, because it takes time to make it by doing something that will earn it.
Oh and dont worry about parsing, with you being in the poorhouse, and not interested, you should not be in the group, after all, being poor and all you cannot afford to outfit a ship to do the content, you will need to be on the forums complaining about its too hard to play, and it needs to be easier, because you dont hae time to get out of the poorhouse, and being on the forums complaining, and grind rep, and grinding xp, etc....
I am not sure what is in this game that cannot be acquired by anyone through game play with no real world money being spent, other than a very few select limited time only items from before the game launched....but then I dont stress over things like that....dil converts to zen, zen buys zen store items, ec can purchase keys, and ec can be farmed by the million+ per hour, lobies are given away every so often, so please tell me how people cannot acquire whatever they desire given enough time????
ryansto your are full of bs if you claim you maxxed out all your specialization points in DQ patrols. I dont care how much dps you pve heroes do. Why dont you be honest with yourself and the community about how you used your high dps to farm TD patrols 17 times faster then the average player.That is how you got maxxed spec points not by using your uber dps in the DQ patrols.There are alot of above average players that farmed TD patrols for days and never got max spec points. So if you claim to have done it in DQ patrols I call BULL ****. Do the math you wouldnt have enough time in the day at the xp that DQ patrols give to reach max spec in that short of a time. I saw 1 of your pve hero buddies bragging in opvp that he had 3 toons almost max. That for sure was done in TD patrols not DQ patrols . So quit your crying you used an exploit got caught they rolled you back partially not even all the way get over it already. If your uber dps is that much of an advantage then it should be no prob to get those points back. If you want to claim you did it in DQ only prove it provide some math on xp you got in DQ patrols and time you spent to get max and i might believe you but until then go pet a panda.
People keep saying this, but it's rather disingenuous. BNPs are only necessary for the Omega ground gear and the Omega space sets. APCs are only necessary for the Delta gear. There's plenty of other end-game sets that don't require either in the other reputation systems, and no other components require doing Advanced queues.
You can easily gear up elsewhere before working on getting BNPs. For example, the CC Deflector (trivial to attain IIs) and Rom Engines (no extra things required) are the general BiS, and the Nukara alternative don't need any components either. Nor does the KCB and Assimiliated console, or (obviously) the Zero-Point.
Queues are not necessary for IIs or VCIs, and are actually the worst possible way to get them in terms of effort:reward. In that vein, I'll say again that they should make BNPs rewards on Deferi, and APCs rewards on Kobali.
Or, just reward VR material packs and one rep item from a normal queue, a multiple of Normal from Advanced, and a multiple of Advanced from Elite.
This makes sense. If they're going to balance Advanced around mandatory group DPS, that number should be based on the best possible DPS from the worst possible end game ship.
Absolutely. I would suggest the Kazon Raider as benchmark T5U, as if anyone deserves to be restricted from Advanced and Elite content based on ship and build it is them.
I for one don't refer to anyone as a scrub. If Fleets did a better job talking and training players this would not be a problem. My fleet is limited to 500 so we can only train so many ensigns. We just started a KDF branch as well another 500. If your not helping players your part of the problem. I prefer to be part of the solution. I have yet to meet a player that wants to invest there time and effort in this or any game to suck. That's my dollar two ninety five.
I am a CC sci captain on the toon that I use for space STF's. I am doing better than 2.5 I but I am certainly not set up for highest DPS and have never cracked 10k.
Unfortunately, there is a reason I only go into non-normal queues of any type with my fleet (with the exception pre DR of Undine Infiltration Elite--ground, which goes to my point) and it's embodied in some of the posts in this thread. Now, we DO have some high-DPS people in our fleet but the difference is that I don't get a side order of attitude with it when I am in the mood to go play with them. There's an understanding of different play styles and how we can work together to get the job done.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
They are if, you want to break that 15k barrier and, the 20k barrier.
15k is, Cryptic's idea of majority player dps range it seems, boy are they wrong huh?
As usual, you fail to read what you quoted - the person was doing 15k on Mk XI gear, with none of what you say is a must have in order to break 15-20k.
15k DPS is an amount every T5 in STO can do. Even the Kazon ship could do it. (but not the Kazon themselves, they couldn't even spell DPS let alone actually do some)
ryansto your are full of bs if you claim you maxxed out all your specialization points in DQ patrols. I dont care how much dps you pve heroes do. Why dont you be honest with yourself and the community about how you used your high dps to farm TD patrols 17 times faster then the average player.That is how you got maxxed spec points not by using your uber dps in the DQ patrols.There are alot of above average players that farmed TD patrols for days and never got max spec points. So if you claim to have done it in DQ patrols I call BULL ****. Do the math you wouldnt have enough time in the day at the xp that DQ patrols give to reach max spec in that short of a time. I saw 1 of your pve hero buddies bragging in opvp that he had 3 toons almost max. That for sure was done in TD patrols not DQ patrols . So quit your crying you used an exploit got caught they rolled you back partially not even all the way get over it already. If your uber dps is that much of an advantage then it should be no prob to get those points back. If you want to claim you did it in DQ only prove it provide some math on xp you got in DQ patrols and time you spent to get max and i might believe you but until then go pet a panda.
Who exactly cares what you believe or not? Why should anyone proof anything to you? Who are you? You write like you think you are the boss, ha ha ha.
Or, just reward VR material packs and one rep item from a normal queue, a multiple of Normal from Advanced, and a multiple of Advanced from Elite.
Solves every issue then.
Absolutely. I would suggest the Kazon Raider as benchmark T5U, as if anyone deserves to be restricted from Advanced and Elite content based on ship and build it is them.
If anything should be the benchmark, it should probably be a tier4 bop, considering many people may be stuck using a tier4 freebie/MU ship to progress to tier5u or, tier6!
As usual, you fail to read what you quoted - the person was doing 15k on Mk XI gear, with none of what you say is a must have in order to break 15-20k.
15k DPS is an amount every T5 in STO can do. Even the Kazon ship could do it. (but not the Kazon themselves, they couldn't even spell DPS let alone actually do some)
Funny, how every top dps listed ship I usually see, has the same listed money toys required to...well be the top.
So to break a certain dps barrier, it is in fact a requirement by the dps elite, even if they don't actually say it with words.
The comment was made accordingly, I read just fine, maybe you can do the same huh?
Because in their own words, they never mentioned breaking that 15k mark, let alone getting to 20k using the same gear/build!
If anything should be the benchmark, it should probably be a tier4 bop, considering many people may be stuck using a tier4 freebie/MU ship to progress to tier5u or, tier6!
Otherwise, your suggestion isn't a bad idea.
Normal Queues only need 3-4k DPS to do. I could do that on a T1 ship, players like the OP could (and in fact have) done it in shuttles.
The original point was about the minimum for Elite - and Elite should be somewhere for Elite specification builds to sink teeth into. Dareau's point was about building the best lemon.
Funny, how every top dps listed ship I usually see, has the same listed money toys required to...well be the top.
So to break a certain dps barrier, it is in fact a requirement by the dps elite, even if they don't actually say it with words.
The comment was made accordingly, I read just fine, maybe you can do the same huh?
Because in their own words, they never mentioned breaking that 15k mark, let alone getting to 20k using the same gear/build!
Yes, that is because it is a top DPS build - of course it will require the best stuff. That "certain dps barrier" is about 40k DPS. In any case, more than twice what you say it is.
A 15-20k build? Even a Galaxy Retrofit could do better, never mind anything vaguely suitable for some sort of damage.
I frakking hate the timer between posts they made worse.
Normal Queues only need 3-4k DPS to do. I could do that on a T1 ship, players like the OP could (and in fact have) done it in shuttles.
The original point was about the minimum for Elite - and Elite should be somewhere for Elite specification builds to sink teeth into. Dareau's point was about building the best lemon.
Well, seeing how so many people like to down the Gal-x, there is your lemon, now build me a 30k-50k monster out of it plz!
I think you mean the gal-r not x, the x is kind of respectable actually.
I believe sarcasmdetector built a 20k gal-r pre-dr, so maybe 30k is not too far fetched. You may want to change your range to 50k-70k to make your point.
Well, seeing how so many people like to down the Gal-x, there is your lemon, now build me a 30k-50k monster out of it plz!
Because you apparently cannot build a high dps ship with standard gear, that does not mean others also cannot. Unless you are the one guy knowing all about the game mechanicts etc perfectly (but in that case you would not have written what you wrote). Sure with paying money you can get faster at the extreme High DPS level, takes less grinding then, or buy specific ships. But thats because Cryptic monetizes the game.
I think you mean the gal-r not x, the x is kind of respectable actually.
I believe sarcasmdetector built a 20k gal-r pre-dr, so maybe 30k is not too far fetched. You may want to change your range to 50k-70k to make your point.
I goofed on the ship selected, sue me lol! (being sarcastic, by just picking something off the top of my head)
Maybe I should have said a 30k hegh'ta heavy bird of prey!
Because you apparently cannot build a high dps ship with standard gear, that does not mean others also cannot. Unless you are the one guy knowing all about the game mechanicts etc perfectly (but in that case you would not have written what you wrote). Sure with paying money you can get faster at the extreme High DPS level, takes less grinding then, or buy specific ships. But thats because Cryptic monetizes the game.
And, I along with many people, do not give a TRIBBLE about building a dps monster!
I can build one, heck I can even perfectly understand the game mechanics but, do I really give a TRIBBLE? NO
I don't want nor, do I need advise from dps channels nor, do I even care that they exist and, guess what? I am not alone!
ryansto your are full of bs if you claim you maxxed out all your specialization points in DQ patrols. I dont care how much dps you pve heroes do. Why dont you be honest with yourself and the community about how you used your high dps to farm TD patrols 17 times faster then the average player.That is how you got maxxed spec points not by using your uber dps in the DQ patrols.There are alot of above average players that farmed TD patrols for days and never got max spec points. So if you claim to have done it in DQ patrols I call BULL ****. Do the math you wouldnt have enough time in the day at the xp that DQ patrols give to reach max spec in that short of a time. I saw 1 of your pve hero buddies bragging in opvp that he had 3 toons almost max. That for sure was done in TD patrols not DQ patrols . So quit your crying you used an exploit got caught they rolled you back partially not even all the way get over it already. If your uber dps is that much of an advantage then it should be no prob to get those points back. If you want to claim you did it in DQ only prove it provide some math on xp you got in DQ patrols and time you spent to get max and i might believe you but until then go pet a panda.
Do you even know how much xp was given per ship in argala prexpnerf? Well over 1k for cruisers and above. Even now, solo with just a 25k dps ship, you can do argala in less than 15 minutes, but the xp is much less, but it wasn't listed as an exploit, after all its in DQ. Some of the ships solo in argala before the nerf, gave 1300 xp apiece or just under, the lowest cruisers were just under 1k, I believe it was 993. Now its more like 1/3 of that. So, i guess Argala was an exploit as well, or better yet, since I am comparing it to solo, I guess just playing elite on a patrol mission was an exploit. Now, I have no clue, what certain people did or did not do, but I can tell you this, I played some TD patrols, and frankly after a few missions, it became rather mediocre unless you constantly found a low level player. On the other hand, argala, that was rather nice, since you were getting that kind of xp even with a higher level toon. First time i ran Argala was when I was 57, and from that point, I tried to find groups to run there, but the rage was TD, and I didn't care for it, lots of very quick runs that might end being the same xp time wise as Argala. So, before you jump up making such a bold statement, might want to consider, just because you could not do something, doesn't mean it couldn't be done, after all running Argala in a group did take longer but xp per run was probably close to the same, maybe a little better or maybe a little worse depending mainly on the dps of the group overall. This based upon someone who did Argala solo and in a group and actually preferred it.
By the way, an exploit, this is for you and Cryptic, is finding a bug in the code that gives an unintended advantage as a result, and then using that bug after having found it, (exploiting a bug). By using the matching system, and ending up with a result with nothing to compare it to, there is no way to actually know if it was beyond intent or not. After all, the matching system, and the xp had nothing for a comparison. How many years has it been since 50 was the max level. When was the last content that would give you levels in anything? How fast can you level a character to max level prior to DR release. I bet when you find out the answers to that, you would not find it unbelievable to level quickly beyond that point when its new release just based upon the game play prior to that release. If there is any failure here, its Cryptic's in failing to properly QA DR before release.
No, matter how they want to spin, or a player wants to spin it, bugs are the responsibilitiy of the provider. QA is around to find problems before its release to the public. Testers of DR from Tribble have claimed to report faster xp gains prior to release. Frankly, this is not the first time that the Cryptic team has taken something away from a lack of forsite. Think back on the change to rep system, because of power creep if they kept putting out new content....well guess what that's a pretty easy thing to know is going to happen, if you keep giving abilities to people they will stack up, but Cryptic's answer to that was well we didn't think it was a big of a deal so we need to do something about it now. Sorry for having to take stuff you earned away from you, but we did not know that if we kept giving you abilities it would make you more powerful......
Fact, prior to DR release, leveling a character to max level could be accomplished over a weekend, if the person was dedicated to doing just that. Fact, even without that type of dedication, if you took a week to level to max, it was more than doable without being extreme, IMO. That being the case, why should any player think that leveling was going to be so much more difficult from already released content. Why would the player base feel that gaining the level was going to be yet another grind on the same level as the rep system? So, when it was released and gaining levels was fairly easy, it was inline with the rest of the game as far as gaining levels on a character, therefore since it is inline, no one would think that anything that they were doing was an exploit, cheating, abnormal. Especially when the only actions taken were done using what was available to be used all along, as it was intended to be used. Matching levels in the party up or down was there to be used, if they didnt want players to match, then it should not have been put in the game in the first place, and furthermore if you only wanted matching in one direction, that is very easy to do, and is usually what is done in most games. Basically, IMO, Cryptic dropped the ball, and made a bad decision on the rolling back of points.
So, for your accusation of people exploiting, well Cryptic called it an exploit, but really how did someone exploit? They used the what was there provided by Crytpic to do what was intended by Cryptic to be done. They leveled quickly, just like previous content it was possible to do, and there was nothing else to compare it to as indicator that it might not be intentional. Yet not only did the 'exploit' get fixed, but the entire xp gaining system was nerfed, which implies if there was truly an exploit, then everyone was exploiting, otherwise its just Cryptic giving out a spurious reason on why they want to do an action that is unfavorable to the general populace.....so fanboi, please explain if nothing else why solo xp was nerfed????? Please say it wasn't, because then I call you a liar, it was nerfed down to less than 1/3....so exploiting fanboi, why did your xp gain get nerfed?? Because you were exploiting with EVERY other player in the game....oh wait...it cannot be called an exploit if everyone was doing it, so you need to select out a few point and make an example....who to chose...oooo I know, the ones who earned the most, and we roll back everyone who earned more than 10, and we can say its an exploit and nerf the entire xp system gain...people wont like it but they will blame the exploiters, we can explain some reason.......................
Whatever, its a grind, Cryptic dropped the ball, and we will either play or we will not play....I will continue to play, maybe I just wont spend anymore of my money on cryptic, mabye I will but right now....bleh, I am a little pissy with Cryptic, or as they are called very often in the game, Craptic...oh as a parting shot....you changed the rep system abilities because of power creep, and needed to keep it in check, and now you added a bunch of abilities back ontop as well as more trait slots.....ROFL...guess you got a handle on the creep so you can afford to add in all the extra stuff...
Find me in game I will help you set it up properly. It really is as easy as putting the file into a directory and then pathing to your combatlog. It seems intimidating at first, but it really, really isn't.
Is the combatlog.log generated by the program or something created by the STO.exe?
I love this topic and had no real idea about your group. I seem to have above average dps but never actually had any idea how to parse it, etc. I look forward to seeing how I can improve my abilities. I am running one fleet defiant T5U with a few fleet MKXII gear. No actual item upgrades as I find the system too grindy and costly for me at present. I have 7 characters, half of them fly the tactical style Vesta (since using the T5U upgrade on it didn't unlock the others).
Comments
GW is useful. That's why I usually take it even when I fly escorts, cruiser or carriers. I hope Fleet Eclipse gets that LtC science station.
There will always be a******s in the game. I once had a guy pm me to berate me on my use of faw, and how I was inferior. Another idiot was role playing as a racist (human league or some non-sense), and decided to berate the fact I was a Klingon and died because as usual I get all the aggro because of dps (tanking is so dead in this game). One idiot with no understanding of game mechanics does not reflect everyone that is trying to do more damage.
A dedicated sci control/healer should be an option, but if you dedicate too many boff powers to healing/control now and try isa in a pug you will fail. Cryptic did a good job railroading folks into the dps race with their floating bags of hp. It's not harder it just takes longer. I do hope they fix it. Until then I am segregating myself and doing advanced only with dps channel folks. Tired of failure, because cryptic didn't think their strategy through.
Said challenge exists for one reason, and one reason only. I am not advanced, nor arrogant, enough to dictate build-terms to the elite, min-maxxers, and PvPers - aka I want to run an X ship with Y weapons and you will cave to me. However, I am arrogant enough to request / demand that the bar for entry be built around a "low common denominator". 3/3 DSSV with 2 tactical BOff slots is low enough for me since it has the least amount of what DPS kings value, and results in a situation that nobody should be "L2Ped" out of an elite because of their ship itself, as long as it's T5U11 or better (endgame level) - since outside of an engie or sci CMDR BOffed Recluse, every other T5U11 hits this 2 Tac BOff slot and most likely 3 tac console bar. Using the suckiest weapon in the game means that someone who picks that one weapon for thematic use or it's proc (I remember being told that some of the easiest queen diamond kills in early ItHS came when me and my fleetie ran tetryon weapons and managed to proc often enough to keep the queen's shields redline thin the entire battle) won't be laughed out of a battle because of beam color. I am also arrogant enough to force these people to meet the "letter" of the advertising - Max gear and solid build - and I'm arrogant enough to define "solid skill build" as something that does not count 6s or 9s in every weapon affecting tactical skill, partially because if you're flying a science-engineering ship, your skills should be science and engineering focused, not tactical focus to everything. Forcing a "canon" build with mandatory energy and projectile mixes both fore and aft again sets a reasonable bar, fits the example of every starter build on every starship in game and allows but does not mandate all energy builds or all projectile builds.
Build the "best lemon" you can, balance for that lemon, and suddenly the intent of the Elite level is met without excluding the majority of the playerbase. Yes, there will still be that troll who insists that their "not quite best lemon but the most they want to put into the build" ship should be elite, hence majority instead of everyone. L2P commentary will be directed to people who don't actually know the game (play by the deciphered strategy that is necessary to let the 5x lemons beat the level) instead of as a discriminatory comment based solely off of weapons color or hull choice.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
ISA is bad but, KSA is even worse as, 9 out of every 10 runs it seems for me in pugs, I get stuck with people who don't want to take care of the probes or, fail to realize they need be stopped from reaching the gate or, maybe don't care to stop them (as in trolling the group), I don't know!
Either way, it spells auto-fail.
I can tell you, that 8-10k dps (CC included) can barely prevent the probes (all 8 of them) from reaching the gate, when being stuck having to kill them all by yourself, whilst the other's seemingly are oblivious of them even existing.
The freaking things have some 10X the hp they used to, that's just plain TRIBBLE! (10X might be slightly incorrect but, close enough)
And CSA, wow that on goes to hell quicker than the devil himself!
I get there is some strategy involved in these mission but, even when all 5 player's are on their A game as far as what needs to be done, advanced queues still force them to have to meet a dps minimum, that is roughly 5X greater, than prior to DR!
And that, is what tends to kill the fun and enjoyment for, a multitude of people who don't feel the need or, want to be forced into narrowing their build variety, just because it doesn't put out tons of dps.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
You are so very very right.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Very well said.
I agree 100%
EliteSTF
STFRaiders
RealEliteSTF
TheHIVE
That is just a partial list of STF channels I can pull from memory that have come and gone over the years ... , and they had one thing in common -- all that was required is for you to be able to finish an STF .
Most if not all were also open to show a newbie the ropes , if one member vouched for them .
NONE had any other artificial requirements like DPS .
YEEEEAH ... , that's like STORyan claiming "gear is not a big deal ..." -- while simultaneously they promote builds that house Lobi consoles & Doffs that cost millions or even hundreds of millions on top of many a lockbox / zen ship .
So those builds are clearly from the poorhouse ... , because "gear doesn't really play a big role in this game" .
Still not interested ... , so don't parse me bro.
I have done plenty of 10k or near 10k builds on a shoe string budget. If you want to hit the max dps that someone like sarcasmdetector does yeah, you need expensive gear. General 10k dps? Rare mk Xi gear and a t5 ship is all you need. I think I have an alt with no doffs that hit 10k. 10k is not elitist or a high bar, all it requires is basic understanding of game mechanics, which as I said before cryptic does a terrible job of explaining in game.
I do respectable DPS and i've lost count since the STF's were broken up into space and ground where in KASE i've had to knock down all the cubes that get spawned as 3 pugs on 1 cube can't destroy it. Or CSE having to rescue the optional as 2 guys cannot defend against 4 BOP's or 4 guys cannot if i'm on Kang duty handle 1 station and are blowing up right,left and centre when they spawn the Negh'var and Raptor guard.
It is a pleasure playing STF's and game content with the guys from these channels as every match is a breeze and successful.
i don't have to carry 2-3 people through STF's as their firepower or crowd control/disable/debuff abilities aren't even tickling the NPC.
So you guys who are turning you're nose up at the DPS crowd thats you're choice and you're mistake to make.
I personally don't want to go playing Advanced and Elite content with someone in a Galaxy-R or a Intrepid who can't break 2000k DPS, because that means more work for me, a longer mission, and a fail doing these missions and a increased difficulty due to a poor ship build by the player.
This makes for a bad game experience for me
(I singled out the Galaxy-r and Intrepid not because i dislike these ships, but because for Higher difficulty levels their single lt tact station makes them very poor ships choices to use due to low dps potential)
Like it or not Cryptic with the increased Hitpoint and Shield wall they introduced to NPC's for DR does mean the player having to make their ship punch harder than post DR.
And remember the success of every space mission in the PvE queues relies on 2 things BEATING THE TIMER, MEANING BLOWING TARGETS UP. thats what DPS is for and the more you have the easier the game becomes
People keep saying this, but it's rather disingenuous. BNPs are only necessary for the Omega ground gear and the Omega space sets. APCs are only necessary for the Delta gear. There's plenty of other end-game sets that don't require either in the other reputation systems, and no other components require doing Advanced queues.
You can easily gear up elsewhere before working on getting BNPs. For example, the CC Deflector (trivial to attain IIs) and Rom Engines (no extra things required) are the general BiS, and the Nukara alternative don't need any components either. Nor does the KCB and Assimiliated console, or (obviously) the Zero-Point.
Queues are not necessary for IIs or VCIs, and are actually the worst possible way to get them in terms of effort:reward. In that vein, I'll say again that they should make BNPs rewards on Deferi, and APCs rewards on Kobali.
This makes sense. If they're going to balance Advanced around mandatory group DPS, that number should be based on the best possible DPS from the worst possible end game ship.
Artificial requirement? Its a real requirement, not artificial....
Oh and those channels you listed, they had a requirement as well, guess by your definition of artificial those had artificial requirements as well, since they had requirements....As for your poorhouse comment, anyone who spends time can get any lockbox ship ever released in this game....after all they are all on the exchange, and even those ships that have been held to make scarce can be gotten by using the exchange, though some sellers might want keys in large amounts, but those keys can be gotten from the exchange....poorhouse to me means someone who cannot bother to farm what needs to be farmed to get decent gear.
If its just a matter of time, then its not they are in the poorhouse, its that they are still beginning the game. Now some who wont apply themselves to being better in the game, will stay "in the poorhouse" because they are just too lazy, IMO, to make a better situation. Before you come back saying you dont have the time to invest...well guess what, thats not my problem, I dont care, because the fact of the matter is you do have the time, it just make take you longer to get there. Guess what, taking longer at something is just that, taking longer. Its like having money, you might not have as much as I do or you might have more, but the fact is that taking more time is the only way you are going to get more of it, because it takes time to make it by doing something that will earn it.
Oh and dont worry about parsing, with you being in the poorhouse, and not interested, you should not be in the group, after all, being poor and all you cannot afford to outfit a ship to do the content, you will need to be on the forums complaining about its too hard to play, and it needs to be easier, because you dont hae time to get out of the poorhouse, and being on the forums complaining, and grind rep, and grinding xp, etc....
I am not sure what is in this game that cannot be acquired by anyone through game play with no real world money being spent, other than a very few select limited time only items from before the game launched....but then I dont stress over things like that....dil converts to zen, zen buys zen store items, ec can purchase keys, and ec can be farmed by the million+ per hour, lobies are given away every so often, so please tell me how people cannot acquire whatever they desire given enough time????
I rolled a new toon using a T5U Armitage no rep/lobi/fleet consoles/Rep traits or expensive doffs and still could break 15k dps using mk xi gear.
Or, just reward VR material packs and one rep item from a normal queue, a multiple of Normal from Advanced, and a multiple of Advanced from Elite.
Solves every issue then.
Absolutely. I would suggest the Kazon Raider as benchmark T5U, as if anyone deserves to be restricted from Advanced and Elite content based on ship and build it is them.
They are if, you want to break that 15k barrier and, the 20k barrier.
15k is, Cryptic's idea of majority player dps range it seems, boy are they wrong huh?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Unfortunately, there is a reason I only go into non-normal queues of any type with my fleet (with the exception pre DR of Undine Infiltration Elite--ground, which goes to my point) and it's embodied in some of the posts in this thread. Now, we DO have some high-DPS people in our fleet but the difference is that I don't get a side order of attitude with it when I am in the mood to go play with them. There's an understanding of different play styles and how we can work together to get the job done.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
As usual, you fail to read what you quoted - the person was doing 15k on Mk XI gear, with none of what you say is a must have in order to break 15-20k.
15k DPS is an amount every T5 in STO can do. Even the Kazon ship could do it. (but not the Kazon themselves, they couldn't even spell DPS let alone actually do some)
Who exactly cares what you believe or not? Why should anyone proof anything to you? Who are you? You write like you think you are the boss, ha ha ha.
If anything should be the benchmark, it should probably be a tier4 bop, considering many people may be stuck using a tier4 freebie/MU ship to progress to tier5u or, tier6!
Otherwise, your suggestion isn't a bad idea.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Funny, how every top dps listed ship I usually see, has the same listed money toys required to...well be the top.
So to break a certain dps barrier, it is in fact a requirement by the dps elite, even if they don't actually say it with words.
The comment was made accordingly, I read just fine, maybe you can do the same huh?
Because in their own words, they never mentioned breaking that 15k mark, let alone getting to 20k using the same gear/build!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Normal Queues only need 3-4k DPS to do. I could do that on a T1 ship, players like the OP could (and in fact have) done it in shuttles.
The original point was about the minimum for Elite - and Elite should be somewhere for Elite specification builds to sink teeth into. Dareau's point was about building the best lemon.
Yes, that is because it is a top DPS build - of course it will require the best stuff. That "certain dps barrier" is about 40k DPS. In any case, more than twice what you say it is.
A 15-20k build? Even a Galaxy Retrofit could do better, never mind anything vaguely suitable for some sort of damage.
I frakking hate the timer between posts they made worse.
Well, seeing how so many people like to down the Gal-x, there is your lemon, now build me a 30k-50k monster out of it plz!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I believe sarcasmdetector built a 20k gal-r pre-dr, so maybe 30k is not too far fetched. You may want to change your range to 50k-70k to make your point.
What part of Galaxy Retrofit did you not understand?
And anyway, since I can use google* - first 30k plus Gal-X I saw: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1046021
Complete with variations and parses no less.
* Other search engines are available.
Bad idea, only Roms can break 50k. (and sarcasmdetector's Fed, but only just)
Because you apparently cannot build a high dps ship with standard gear, that does not mean others also cannot. Unless you are the one guy knowing all about the game mechanicts etc perfectly (but in that case you would not have written what you wrote). Sure with paying money you can get faster at the extreme High DPS level, takes less grinding then, or buy specific ships. But thats because Cryptic monetizes the game.
I goofed on the ship selected, sue me lol!
Maybe I should have said a 30k hegh'ta heavy bird of prey!
And, I along with many people, do not give a TRIBBLE about building a dps monster!
I can build one, heck I can even perfectly understand the game mechanics but, do I really give a TRIBBLE? NO
I don't want nor, do I need advise from dps channels nor, do I even care that they exist and, guess what? I am not alone!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Do you even know how much xp was given per ship in argala prexpnerf? Well over 1k for cruisers and above. Even now, solo with just a 25k dps ship, you can do argala in less than 15 minutes, but the xp is much less, but it wasn't listed as an exploit, after all its in DQ. Some of the ships solo in argala before the nerf, gave 1300 xp apiece or just under, the lowest cruisers were just under 1k, I believe it was 993. Now its more like 1/3 of that. So, i guess Argala was an exploit as well, or better yet, since I am comparing it to solo, I guess just playing elite on a patrol mission was an exploit. Now, I have no clue, what certain people did or did not do, but I can tell you this, I played some TD patrols, and frankly after a few missions, it became rather mediocre unless you constantly found a low level player. On the other hand, argala, that was rather nice, since you were getting that kind of xp even with a higher level toon. First time i ran Argala was when I was 57, and from that point, I tried to find groups to run there, but the rage was TD, and I didn't care for it, lots of very quick runs that might end being the same xp time wise as Argala. So, before you jump up making such a bold statement, might want to consider, just because you could not do something, doesn't mean it couldn't be done, after all running Argala in a group did take longer but xp per run was probably close to the same, maybe a little better or maybe a little worse depending mainly on the dps of the group overall. This based upon someone who did Argala solo and in a group and actually preferred it.
By the way, an exploit, this is for you and Cryptic, is finding a bug in the code that gives an unintended advantage as a result, and then using that bug after having found it, (exploiting a bug). By using the matching system, and ending up with a result with nothing to compare it to, there is no way to actually know if it was beyond intent or not. After all, the matching system, and the xp had nothing for a comparison. How many years has it been since 50 was the max level. When was the last content that would give you levels in anything? How fast can you level a character to max level prior to DR release. I bet when you find out the answers to that, you would not find it unbelievable to level quickly beyond that point when its new release just based upon the game play prior to that release. If there is any failure here, its Cryptic's in failing to properly QA DR before release.
No, matter how they want to spin, or a player wants to spin it, bugs are the responsibilitiy of the provider. QA is around to find problems before its release to the public. Testers of DR from Tribble have claimed to report faster xp gains prior to release. Frankly, this is not the first time that the Cryptic team has taken something away from a lack of forsite. Think back on the change to rep system, because of power creep if they kept putting out new content....well guess what that's a pretty easy thing to know is going to happen, if you keep giving abilities to people they will stack up, but Cryptic's answer to that was well we didn't think it was a big of a deal so we need to do something about it now. Sorry for having to take stuff you earned away from you, but we did not know that if we kept giving you abilities it would make you more powerful......
Fact, prior to DR release, leveling a character to max level could be accomplished over a weekend, if the person was dedicated to doing just that. Fact, even without that type of dedication, if you took a week to level to max, it was more than doable without being extreme, IMO. That being the case, why should any player think that leveling was going to be so much more difficult from already released content. Why would the player base feel that gaining the level was going to be yet another grind on the same level as the rep system? So, when it was released and gaining levels was fairly easy, it was inline with the rest of the game as far as gaining levels on a character, therefore since it is inline, no one would think that anything that they were doing was an exploit, cheating, abnormal. Especially when the only actions taken were done using what was available to be used all along, as it was intended to be used. Matching levels in the party up or down was there to be used, if they didnt want players to match, then it should not have been put in the game in the first place, and furthermore if you only wanted matching in one direction, that is very easy to do, and is usually what is done in most games. Basically, IMO, Cryptic dropped the ball, and made a bad decision on the rolling back of points.
So, for your accusation of people exploiting, well Cryptic called it an exploit, but really how did someone exploit? They used the what was there provided by Crytpic to do what was intended by Cryptic to be done. They leveled quickly, just like previous content it was possible to do, and there was nothing else to compare it to as indicator that it might not be intentional. Yet not only did the 'exploit' get fixed, but the entire xp gaining system was nerfed, which implies if there was truly an exploit, then everyone was exploiting, otherwise its just Cryptic giving out a spurious reason on why they want to do an action that is unfavorable to the general populace.....so fanboi, please explain if nothing else why solo xp was nerfed????? Please say it wasn't, because then I call you a liar, it was nerfed down to less than 1/3....so exploiting fanboi, why did your xp gain get nerfed?? Because you were exploiting with EVERY other player in the game....oh wait...it cannot be called an exploit if everyone was doing it, so you need to select out a few point and make an example....who to chose...oooo I know, the ones who earned the most, and we roll back everyone who earned more than 10, and we can say its an exploit and nerf the entire xp system gain...people wont like it but they will blame the exploiters, we can explain some reason.......................
Whatever, its a grind, Cryptic dropped the ball, and we will either play or we will not play....I will continue to play, maybe I just wont spend anymore of my money on cryptic, mabye I will but right now....bleh, I am a little pissy with Cryptic, or as they are called very often in the game, Craptic...oh as a parting shot....you changed the rep system abilities because of power creep, and needed to keep it in check, and now you added a bunch of abilities back ontop as well as more trait slots.....ROFL...guess you got a handle on the creep so you can afford to add in all the extra stuff...
Is the combatlog.log generated by the program or something created by the STO.exe?
I love this topic and had no real idea about your group. I seem to have above average dps but never actually had any idea how to parse it, etc. I look forward to seeing how I can improve my abilities. I am running one fleet defiant T5U with a few fleet MKXII gear. No actual item upgrades as I find the system too grindy and costly for me at present. I have 7 characters, half of them fly the tactical style Vesta (since using the T5U upgrade on it didn't unlock the others).
Anyway great post thanks.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D