See, here is where you completely killed yourself, as not trying to come off as a so called baddie!
To say people cannot and, should not ever be able to have fun in advance with those types of builds, is a pure sign of elitist attitude.
And to the OP, really!
You all are now trying to have someone, act as your personal PR guy?
You all must be getting really desperate!
And, while you all might not have been the only factor in Cryptic's decision, to how the changes to advanced/elite STFs went over, you did however have a part in it!
When they noted all of the bragging, videos, posting, threads done by you people, well it's no wonder they felt the need to up the requirements, as you gave them the impression that this is normal and, that many people follow suite or, at least they should/must!
Politics, does nothing good really for anyone, except the politician and, those who side with them.
Why are you trolling the forums, what is your benefit from that? Or is it just your style of communication (which could be, because it is so consistant accross several topics in which you have posted) ?
You guys really do need help with your PR ... , because if you keep insisting on the "do it yourself" thing , you might as well go back to grade school .
Or maybe this tip will help you : you are NOT on a typical gamers forum , where sneering at others skillz (solo or in a pack) will get you credit ... . I you want that 12 year old stuff , go post on a CoD forum .
...plus , considering how casual this game is , you might as well be proclaiming to be the "Wizards of Farmville" ...
(and you know ... make yourself's look like an idiot in the process ...)
First off, if elite paid exactly as normal did - ie, was only there for the challenge, then we'd not be having this argument, as all the "scrubs" who don't want to be shoehorned into a build can get our stuffs on advanced, and the "elitists" can be grabbing accolades from elite content...
Otherwise, expect everyone, including "undergeared PuGgers", in those elite queues because, dangit, that's where the rewards are.
Now, I'm not completely insensitive to the needs of the high-end playerbase. Elite is clearly advertised to require "top end gear" and a "solid build" to complete. As such, the proposal I'll put out runs clearly on said boundaries. Full slate of Mk XIV Gold and a T5U11 (equivalent to T6, remember the advertising?) ship.
Said ship, for purposes of this challenge/deal, is a T5U11 DSSV.
Since gear is somewhat easier to spell out, I'll start with: Mk XIV Tetryon weaponry, in a "canon" build with one forward and one aft torpedo launcher (aka kinetic bonus), using what is argued to be the "worst" torpedo type (I've lost track of what's the "worst" torpedo for DPS types). Tac consoles should be 2x Gold Tetryon generators, and 1x of the Torpedo boosters all with that vulnerability trick off the spire (will give this over 2x gold beam consoles and a generic warhead yield booster). Science consoles should be 1x shield cap, 1x shield regen, 1x graviton generator, 1x particle booster, all plasma DoT infused when appropriate, and 2x fleet armor + RCS consoles with that 11th console being one clicky of choice. Most likely Nukara weapons set and KHG / AMACO shield/deflector/engine sets (tetryon boost and sci/torp boosts) with [AMP] and aux-heavy warp core of choice filling out the "middle" of the ship. Obviously, all gold.
Skills are a lot harder to spell out, but, since I went DSSV which is a Science vessel with more engineering than tactical, I'll say that skill points should be scattered along those lines - 6s to 9s in all appropriate science skills to support the BOff powers selected, and a heck of a lot more engineering than tactical - ie, if given a choice to put a 6 in, say, the admiral level energy weapon crit boost skill or the admiral level weapons power boosting skill, the 6 goes into engineering, but don't stockpile engineering to the complete detriment of tactical, even though both the aux power and weapons power raising skills are both admiral level and therefore "6 worthy" over the energy and projectile crit boosting tac skills - partially due to anticipated lack of weapons power on the aux-focused sci build, and partially to ease the activation of [AMP] on the warp core...
Captain's class should be engineer, as they are considered the weakest of the three, though I'm more than game of theorycrafting a 5 Sci captain squadron in a 5 science ship mission.
As you can see, I'm fitting the "intent" of this challenge squarely into the advertising (top end gear and solid build) while accounting for and/or actively discouraging "cookie cuttering" into that "cream of the crop" hyper-top-end stuff of all tacticals with Aux2Batting Scimitars spamming AP-B and BFaW with a judicious rotation of FoMM, AP-A, and GDFs coming from the captains in individual turns all over the map.
If it eases the thought process some, instead of 5x DSSVs let's go 3x DSSVs and 2x Galaxy-Rs, both Galaxys built along the earlier lines (no disruptors / plasma burn / radiation heavy weaponry selections, though you get A2B, AP-B I and BFaW I eating up those 2 tac slots, and again, let's not put tacticals into the cruisers, keep them engies...)
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Why are you trolling the forums, what is your benefit from that? Or is it just your style of communication (which could be, because it is so consistant accross several topics in which you have posted) ?
The same could be said, about these so called dps posts, that try and play it off as, we are not responsible for nothing but, trying to help the community threads.
While at the same time, thumbing their noses at the people who couldn't care less!
As such, the proposal I'll put out runs clearly on said boundaries. Full slate of Mk XIV Gold and a T5U11 (equivalent to T6, remember the advertising?) ship.
Said ship, for purposes of this challenge/deal, is a T5U11 DSSV.
Since gear is somewhat easier to spell out, I'll start with: Mk XIV Tetryon weaponry, in a "canon" build with one forward and one aft torpedo launcher (aka kinetic bonus), using what is argued to be the "worst" torpedo type (I've lost track of what's the "worst" torpedo for DPS types). Tac consoles should be 2x Gold Tetryon generators, and 1x of the Torpedo boosters all with that vulnerability trick off the spire (will give this over 2x gold beam consoles and a generic warhead yield booster). Science consoles should be 1x shield cap, 1x shield regen, 1x graviton generator, 1x particle booster, all plasma DoT infused when appropriate, and 2x fleet armor + RCS consoles with that 11th console being one clicky of choice. Most likely Nukara weapons set and KHG / AMACO shield/deflector/engine sets (tetryon boost and sci/torp boosts) with [AMP] and aux-heavy warp core of choice filling out the "middle" of the ship. Obviously, all gold.
Sorry, I don't get your point.
Why should anyone invest so many resources in such a strange build?
Btw. we are not using Aux2Battery. And there are only two (lucky crit) epic beam arrays in my build. Some of my gear is still Mk XII.
Sucks to be called something you don't think you are doesn't it? Some of ya real fast to call people exploiters and laugh at them they attempt to defend themselves.
Please scrubbies keep posting. The irony is highly amusing.
Hmmmm. No-one, Sarcasm?
It's human nature: there are bell-ends on both sides of this argument.
Not really .
As far as I'm concerned , it was not me nor the other players in the public ESTF channels , or the players in the queues that put up a fence with the proverbial sign :
"WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU* !"
* until you jump as high as we've decided
That segregational attitude is all on the DPS channels creators ... , which they are welcome to dismantle any day and rejoin the folk who do not live up on the mountain .
OTOTH it's a good thing they can't segregate anything else or who knows where this could lead ... .
They've changed the rules a third time, further segregating a shrinking playerbase.
Hmmm , I only heard about two of these "revisions" & their outfalls , but that would explain this "not recruitment drive" that we're seeing .
THIS GAME SHOULD NOT BE ALL ABOUT DPS !!!
It has become so, unfortunately.
Therefore, whats the point of 95% of the items & stuff ?
Practically all ship configurations now must be maxed type-specific tac consoles with everything else weapons support.
Cruisers on normal with 200k hull
Spheres on advanced with 400k HP.
Not even worth mentioning all the missions of HP on elite.
Result: space gameplay limited to top 1% DPS players on elite and top 10% (or maybe even less) on advanced.
What about the rest ?
What about an A.I. instead of mass HP ?
What about elite maps designed to be more tactical-challenging ?
What happened to the Picard way of solving things ?
1. Exploiting ?
Lets be serious, when elite ground kills give you 2 XP out of the 50k+ needed for a cpt spec point, you'll certainly find a way to get some more.
2. DPS only. Explained above, an in one more thousand player re's.
3. Broken exchange. Gone from broken to very broken. This is also explained in a lot of threads.
4. Item upgrade scam. Also intensely-explained. Yep. almost 1 mil dil for an Epic item certainty. Thats fair.
5. Drops do not drop. All ground drops on elite are junk 'small shield/medpack'.
Why dont random mk12 purples drop on elite grounds ? What happened to end-map elite item rewards ?
6. Kits are not upgradeable. So, when ?
The only difficulty I've seen in the advanced queues are when people TRIBBLE it up, like blowing up a transformer on the otherside of the gate in ISA. CSA used to be hell to pug, now if everyone has a bit of a clue it's even easier than pre-DR, thanks the the Kangs extra tankiness.
Normal Queues are for everyone. you can fly in with any ship and any build and you'll do fine.
Advanced Queues are for slightly more skilled players. It still doesn't take much to meet the minimum requirements.
Elite Queues are for the best of the best.
The problem pre-DR was that you could take a T1 or T2 ship into an Elite queue and do passably well.
Exactly. Pre-Dr I joined a bunch of mates in a T3-ship run of ISE. None of them members of the DPS channel and the majority of them not hardcore STO players. We completed it within the time limit without much difficulty. That isn't what I'd even call advanced difficulty.
Currently the only difficulty I've seen in any advanced queue is when someone does something stupid. If I was paranoid I'd say they were trolls deliberately trying to fail.
The day DR went live I tried a couple of the "New Improved!" STFs on Advanced. Took too long and the rewards were half of what they had been. Made up my mind right then and there to let them be. Enough people not playing them will tell pwe/cryptic they are not set up correctly and should be adjusted. Moreso than they have been so far. Metrics, not YouTube videos will make them change it.
As to the 'scrubs' remark. So you're so 'expert' enough at one video game, you have earned the privilege of looking down your nose at the rest of humanity. My my my. I am indeed impressed with your opinion of yourself.
I've been married 28 years, raised two kids, Served in the US Army as an Abrams tanker, went to the 1st Gulf War, teach people how to drive 18 wheelers for living, Was Driver of the Year for a company with 4,800 other drivers...oh yeah I can also play the saxophone. Don't generally display my accomplishments in public. It is gauche and ill mannered to show off at someone else's expanse.
Keep trying hard to impress us with your epeen, though. Those of us with fully functional real world equipment find it very amusing.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I wasn't answering you. I quote whoever I'm specifically replying to, otherwise it's just a general reply. However, I did read your post, and you've got very valid points.
In fact, while I can count them on one hand, I will admit that I've fallen into the trap of parsing for parsing's sake while pugging.... seeing 30k, 3k, 3k,3k,3k... and posting the parse results in team chat before warping.
probably not the most polite thing to do, but I guess I could counterpoint posting the results with a generic "If you'd like help to be able to do better, feel free to send me a tell" in the future, if I pug it up.
How would you suggest a solution in that event? I mean... I don't want to flat out say they suck, and I don't, but this is a game where the mechanic is that even with all the CC in the world, at some point you need to kill the bad guys... "Moar Dakka is Goot" etc.
On another discussion albeit possibly off-topic from the whole DPS game, I'd argue that the new Elite difficulty for your every-day sector patrol actually allows for more team action. CC, Tank, and DPS'ers all have their place, especially focused DPS'ers.
I was running with fleetmates who all have done in the 10-20k ranges and we were finding that it was easier (and more fun) if we actually used a pinned primary captain/offensive coordinator so that we could stack debuffs and focus on erasing a specific enemy off the map, rinse repeat. The AOE FAW zergforce wasn't quite as effective. It had a fun factor, but I'm still up in the air as to if that fun factor was offset by the lack of overall efficiency considering the time to value quotient given the minor increase in rewards for going "big" at this point.
I mean what you're saying is reasonable, just adding a little line to make sure people don't take it the wrong way, saying what you've said but maybe even adding 'if not good hunting' or whatever, keeps it light hearted. But yeah you're on the right lines with what I mean, which is reassuring.
That's a fair point your making, I'm just wandering how that'll work with the timers on Elite difficulty on missions like the Borg STF's, but I think we have to wait and see on that one.
I could care less what people think of me. I'm not part of the DPS league to be nice, flowerly, and vomiting rainbows everywhere. I do go out of my way to help people when asked but i wont hold anyone's hand or spoon feed them.
There are thousands of players in the DPS League, it's unrealistic to expect every single one of them to go through a personality re-adjustment when they join: "From this point forth you will all become Nice Guys so that the people on the forums will like us."
The reality is that you are going to get every type of personality and character in the DPS channels. some will be nice, others will be *******s. Q help you if you are the type that gets offended easily and you run into Mal.
I don't know why you think it's some kind of tight, orderly organization. it's a very loose grouping of players who owe nothing to anyone.
Since i just mentioned him earlier, i'll give Mal as an example. He is The House MD of the DPS league. Cranky and insulting, offensive to the extreme, but he will literally spend HOURS helping you if you ask him.
That's the DPS League, you have to take the good with the bad.
Well then by that working why even bother posting here? Truth is you are all complaining about how your perceived by the player base, yet you aren't willing to accept the reason for it. It's not even about being people made out of rainbows, its just basic manners. Frankly until you guys see that's some of the reason why people don't want to get along with you all then you really have no basis to complain, the old phrase 'Give what you expect to get back' comes to mind.
Like you say, you don't care what people think of you, so if that's the case why even attempt to make friends with the player base again?
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
DPS is not the end all be all, but if you dont bring enough dps to just roll over it, then bring your game up to the level to complete it.
I can exceed 10k dps in all of my ships but looking for builds to help raise my game. I do not have any gear that is upgraded. I do not use any rep gear from Undine or Delta. I am not using any crafted weapons. I have no crafted gear whatsoever. I can complete Korfez, I can complete BDE, etc.
Even with lower dps team members all the ques can be completed, what they requires is them to come to the team willing to follow strats that will be successful. Problem is that they come with undergeared ships, and still do not know, nor care to follow any strats/tactics.
What this results in is a fail for the mission. Period. Thats just a lack of consideration for the other players. It has nothing to do with them not being elite, it has everything to do with an attitude of not wanting to work for the reward. Why should players who want to put in no effort or very little effort be rewarded with anything?
Want level 60? Its not hard just go at it with an attitude of I need to succeed at this queue or mission. Gaining xp even now is not really that hard, unless you are trying to get a huge amount in a short amount of time. If you dont like that grind, well blame Cryptic because they determined that xp should only come at the rate its at now.
If you want to roll through content like its no problem, then I suggest you up your game, just like in any MMO. If you cannot reach 20k, then there are resources available to help you get there. Reddit anyone????
Are there people who end up with an elitist attitude yes...there are....there is no denying that, is that what the channel creators wanted, I seriously doubt that, or they would just have one channel, and call it 40k....or some other number that is much harder to get at than 10k
You don't like the fact that some people have pride in the fact that they can push the limits, then that is your problem. You dont like the fact that you cannot do content because you dont know how, again thats your problem. There are ways to solve those problems, from learning the strat to boost your dps, or a combination of the two. That is just a starter concept. If you want to succeed doing the content, develop a start that does not require people to have 15k and still win the encounter, if you dont want to take the time to make your gear better.
Problem here is that people have a stance, if you want to be better we will help you to be more like we are and succeed doing what we do. While other people want to complain about why do I have to do it like you. Well, you dont have to do it like the higher dps crowd is doing it, but if you want to succeed without the dps, dont try to do it like the dps crowd, because you wont succeed.
Want to win in BDE, learn some of the strats...2 right off the to of my head, not even hard. 3 aggro 1 for each direction of right, center, and left. 2 floaters 1 right and center while the other is left and center. Floaters move from the two locations they are responsible for getting all disconnected. Aggroers stay in their location and try to get all aggro so Floaters stay out of combat. Simple, Aggroers do NOT have to have a ton of dps, but they have to be able to tank and get aggro.....Another method simliar but different, 2/1/2.....two directions will have 2 people in it, one person gets aggro, the other gets the disconnected; the direction that has one person in it, needs to be in a carrier and let the pets aggro while they get the disconnected, if they need some help, they scream on team chat to get a floater to come get the disconnected while they get things back under control......SIMPLE, its not hard, but if people cannot bother to follow it they will fail. I am sure that there are other strats that will work, and please note in the 2 strats i just listed, I did NOT specify a DPS min. needed to pull this off.
I learned these stats/tactics playing with people in the DPS channel. Why am I in the DPS channels? I am in them because I want to succeed at the content that is available, as well as trying to improve the playing I do in the game. I do not follow everything I see, I do not have to do 70k dps, but I have improved my dps by listening to the advice I have seen, and experimenting. In a narcine, with elite pets but mk12 gear and nothing crafted, I have at times in bde as an aggroer almost been able to solo a direction without needing the floater while firing my weapons. That is a goal I have set for myself, I want to not only handle a direction in bde solo, but kill every mob that spawns, and still get all the disconnected without needing someone to back me up...It will take me a little while to get there, but I will get there, if in the process Crytpic decides to change the content to make it hard because I succeed in a goal, does that make me bad??? I do not think so.
This is a game, and if you are going queue up in this game, my expectation is for you to come prepared to play the game. PREPARED, that requires you to be geared enough to follow a strat, or geared enough to ignore the strats because you bring that much firepower. Eitherway, WE can win, if we work together. On the other hand if you have no intention of following a strat, and you arent going to bring any dps to speak of, then what are doing in the queue? Expecting someone to make up for your lack of preparedness???
So, just to make it very clear to people. Since no one that is hating DPS channel wants to admit. Its not hard to get 10k dmg, its not expensive to get 10k dps, it does require you to prepare your ships, and to do a little research. Now, if you do not want to do that, then you need to atleast be prepared to run the content in such a way that you can succeed, otherwise you are just showing up to leech off the other people there.
No matter how you want to spin it, if you dont have the capability to do the content solely because you do not want to be bothered being prepared to do it, makes you in my eyes inconsiderate, and rude.
Learn the encounters, know what to expect, know what will cause the mission to fail. Prepare yourself to be able to contribute in a meaningful way that will work for the mission. Want to aggro stuff in BDE, be able to tank it. Want to kill the ships in Korfez but dont have the dps, bring some cc, or debuffs to help others kill it faster....Lots of different ways to be useful, but if you cannot be bothered to be productive team member, then I will just call you a scrub or a leech, because thats what you will be.
Cannot accept being called that, then step up and be prepared in some way to do what is necessary to win vs the content that Cryptic has put out there for us to enjoy. I for one enjoy winning, if you enjoy losing, please go be a loser somewhere else. If you want to win and need the help, then I do not mind helping, or even running missions with you to help you get better. I do have problems running them just so you can get the rewards with no effort expended.
Just so you dont forget....None of my ships have any crafted gear, none of my ships has any lobi consoles or weapons, I think the only Undine rep I have on any ships is the rep torp, which I really dont use that loadout right now. So, basically my ships are outfitted with mk12 gear, which is readily available to players. I am not using any romlan rep gear on my ships either, even though plenty do. I do use some dyson rep gear, I do use fleet rep gear. Again, this stuff is obtainable by any player if they bother to use the resources out there. Now some of the fleet gear can take a while to get but thats just another grind.
So, now you have a strat for an elite queue, that will work for lots of people, if they will be bothered to follow it. You do not need to be stuck in BDA, you do not need lots of DPS, but you do need to be able to do more than push a single button, you have to play role you will sign up for...Good Luck, I truly hope you succeed and have fun. After all, that why we should all be playing.
If you wont read it, I will just ignore what ur saying ;D
If you won't stop quoting ppl without using their names , I'll start to ignore what you're saying . :cool:
If you don't care about my point of view, leave it be.
I don't deny you the right of having one, but does your open-mindedness end, when it comes to mine?
My open mindedness ends when e-peen leads to unnecessary segregation .
That segregation can be within a Fleet , or within a player community ... be they PVP or PVE .
The cherry picking of the PVP community into several "elite" fleets left it in not such a pretty place (by now many of the better players there have just up and left) , and the segregation of the STF players will lead to the same .
We CAN all play together and have fun .
We DON'T NEED several shrinking communities .
We are STRONGER TOGETHER then apart .
I say NO to segregation based on DPS !
I never said you could not improve if you tried. Or claimed anyone was playing BAD. I never judged over someone's playstyle.
Aaand at this point I'm left to wonder if your brain is getting all the oxygen it needs ... .
turtles and "just for fun" types and gimmicks need to stick to the Normal queues.
Most things you had said were making quite a bit of sense, well, until this part. That's actually a pretty farfetched statement right there. Actually, it's terrifying. Now, before I go all bonkers I will say yes that it is very agreeable that people should all put their hands in when in a teamed scenario. That is why it's called a "team".
Mmm, but playing "just for fun." being a bad thing... oh, I've seen this in so many games so many times. Man, it's the same mindset in every game that believes "playing for fun" is a bad thing. Yes, you did say playing for fun in solo content was fine. I have no problems there. But, where does fun end and seriousness begin? After all, if fun does not belong in a scenario, then obviously this is taken seriously. But, wait. That defeats the purpose of games, doesn't it? Here, I'll link a video for everyone to see what I mean and I'll explain more below:
(Video is just to help back things up by the way.)
This is a recording (although not best quality, I know) of me playing World of Tanks some time ago. What's this have to do with STO? A lot, actually. You see, World of Tanks is a competitive game and very team-based. This means everyone must pull their part. You only get 1 life a match by the way. No respawns here. The funny thing though is I have a lot of fun in that game. I play for fun. What happens in that video right there was for "fun."
Did I save the day? Maybe. Did I end up carrying the team at the end? In some peoples eyes, yes. Did I totally wreck some enemies? You betcha. Did I rack up some kills? Totally. Did I do a lot of damage by the end of that match? Affirmative. But, what did I do it for? Fun. Did it for fun. Fun is what I play games for. Obviously, I played to win, but winning wasn't the fun part. It was the intensity of that match. That was the fun. And I sure as heck could not do it without the other 14 people on my team. Mad props to all those folks. Even the little guys in the match. Also, I will admit the last part of that video was awkward....
Funny part? I'm considered a crappy/average player in World of Tanks due to the "efficiency" rating people came up with. Yep, the guy who helped their team to victory is a TRIBBLE player. They even created a coding table to color people in battle of who is bad and who is good thanks to stat readers. For every milestone of efficiency you reach (6k, 7k, 8k), you get labelled. The "Pros" in this game, that Wargaming also caters to and claims them as the best of the best, actually believe that "playing for fun" is bad player talk. Yep, I play that game for fun and even when I help a team out greatly I'm a terribad player who should uninstall. (For the record, not saying all people with the DPS logs are that bad or even bad at all. But, there are a quite a few in STO).
Now, Star Trek Online is no different. You queue up into a match to be part of a team and are going up against a challenge of some kind. As you said, people must pull their part. Again, agreeable. But, just because someone goes into a match does not mean they can't have fun. Just because someone is having fun does not mean they are inefficient.
I'd also like to note, STO has a much better community than that game and that's why I tend to play STO. There's a lot of great people who do play this game. No matter what group they belong to.
Here, I'll be more relevant with STO now and explain some recent fun things:
I have a KDF raptor, the new Tier 6 raptor to be exact. I enjoy it. Love it so much. I enjoy it more than playing a Scimitar (I have Scimitar, but don't enjoy it sadly. Even if it does have DPS.) I have played the new advanced missions and I pull around 15k DPS, give or take. It's a cannon build with 1 torpedo. Mk 11 blue cannons, Mk X Borg Set (yep, the old Mk 10 set. I still use Mk 10 Maco, too!), very simple build, no rep items really besides the borg set, no fleet items (not in a fleet or access), and I have a very strange build on it as far as abilities would be concerned, but yet I've been able to pull out this damage. I went with minimality because I no longer care for trying to be the best. That got boring in SWG, I'm not doing it again. And I'm glad you're not trying to force me, props to you fine people for that. It's great to not force others. That's respecting others, that's good. No problem there.
I could totally make a better build, sure, but I'm doing efficient at minimum and even passing pug queues without a hitch, able to tank a tact cube while doing DPS while sitting in one spot most of the time. I am having fun. I am helping my team, others are happy, I'm having fun. If they didn't have fun for some odd reason because I'm not doing 50k DPS, well, jokes on them. I don't care. Why? Well, I don't want to be X.K. Who's that? Oh, well, there was this guy back in Star Wars Galaxies who was a self-proclaimed demi-god. (I'm not saying his full name.) He defined skill as having 6 rows of buffs and nothing but the best of best gear on. In reality, he was a joke. He became the laughing stock of the game. He even made videos trying to show how pro he was in PVP, yet, he believed gear and buffs was skill. My friend fought him in the nude one day. X.K. died. This guy had a cult following. (Shocking, right?)
Don't become X.K. No one should. You never go full X.K. That's what I'm afraid of seeing here. Another X.K. Now, many of you folks have been nice and haven't said anything bad really or even tried to be bad. But, yeah, seems some asserting justification for being rude will lead one to going full X.K.
By the way, I'm sitting on my super high-mighty chair made of leather and embedded with lobi lining the sides of my chair while typing this post to correct your statement of "just for fun crowd is bad in queues and stuff" even though I'm trying to say this out of helping you realize that it's not. (That's probably some terrible positioned humor and sounds like a mockery, although I'm just making fun of myself for being that "correction" guy.)
The part I am sadly starting to notice though is this game is no longer fun for you, or your buddies and many people in the game (and rightfully so in many cases). All these threads and things being made seem more like an attack on the devs and in some cases your fellow players. As other people have said, that's a bad low right there. Why? What's more strange is you have defended the majority of the player base (respect there.), yet at the same-time you have shoveled the majority in certain statements, such as above.. (I'm reading dictionary on what respect means now.) It seems like various people are trying to be on both sides of the fence here and that is problematic and it's biting them no matter what they say now. (Doing one extreme, then doing another extreme to justify the other basically, even if it was out of some attempt of goodness)
This whole DPS channel what not. These things can start out as good, but they tend to spiral downward after some time it seems. They're like a phoenix, they are born, they die, they are reborn, they die. In the end, they are still a phoenix. You guys may've started the whole DPS stuff out of good faith, but after watching this game for years, silently in the shadows, reading forums, I'm watching things decay. It's depressing. That's just the community in general. too. Delta Rising has, well, gotten a rise out of everyone. They're off the charts. Everyone's temper is so high, it'd take 60 of your scimitars DPS to match the circumstance. And that statistic is being generous.
Obviously, many people here love STO though. Feel like I'm just watching people (everyone) starting to take it out on each other and attack in all directions. Everyone just initiated Fire at Will, the new Expansion errors just placated you, and now allies are being fired on. Although, this isn't just limited to one person or a group. Seems like everyone's firing at each other. Better slot some Science Team, folks.
Closure/Summary
At the chances of trailing off a lot in my post, here's the summarized version. Fun can be found in many forms. The "just for fun" crowd, was a poor choice of words and can bite you in the hangar bay. You probably do mean good in many ways, I won't dispute that, but given recent things you may want to slow down a bit. Not trying to attack you on this, just trying to give an explanation from a different point of view.
Some people are trying to give you DPSer guys a chance if you noticed (maybe it hasn't come across that way, same as your tone hasn't come across them properly. Everyone's being rough, even if on accident). From what I'm seeing, they care about you guys. Sure, some might hate, but many people see that there are people who know math and such and are willing to help and people appreciate that. What's happening here is a massive amount of tension and miscommunication is happening and a gap is now being created. This is not good for the health of the community or any reputation that may exist. We all need to suck it up and shut up and put our energy to good use. Like, showing that good energy to the devs in a positive, meaningful, but powerful way as a community as a whole. Not just individuals trying to 1-up each other in who has the biggest problem or who was mistaken (seems most are)
To everyone, honestly, I'd hate to see this community fall apart. Everyone here obviously loves STO, regardless of what we do in it. That's why we're upset. What we love is being hurt and that hurts us. Unfortunately, we're taking it out on each other as some have stated. This has caused so much tension that we're trying to destroy each other. We want someone to feel our pain. I can tell you right now, that's not the right way. Insulting the devs, wanting them to suffer, mocking them, making fun won't help. It will make them want to have everyone suffer more. I remember something along the lines of being mentioned that why would the devs want to interact with something so horrible? It's not fun for them, it's certainly not fun for us. Example: this thread right here. Nothing but a ferengi saying his business is better than the other's while trying to give tips on better business, yet the other claiming their business is flourishing just fine and... whatever I'm losing my train of thought at this point. LOL
There may be some elitism happening, there may be some misjudged feelings, there may be misinterpretations. If there is one thing though, we need to chill and do something better than this. This thread's gotten to the point of just attacks it looks like (and I'm sure this was not intended either. I know it wasn't).
Many of you folks have excellent points, but guys, you gotta relax. Go to Risa, relax, take a moment to yourself and think. (Just don't go out at night because... you know who.)
P.S.: If anyone got confused, fell asleep or had a brain explosion during my post for any reason, let me know. Hopefully this turned out well being typed in the wee hours of the morning.
STO forum term definitions for newbies:Piloting Skill: That thing you do where you fly around and avoid big scary green plasma balls of death. Pressing F and spacebar may also relate to skill.Taco: A very sacred thing. Do not speak I'll of the Taco or things will happen. Terrible things! Humor: Something not found here. Don't bring it. This forum is serious business.Fun: Something illegal. Don't have it and don't bring it
Amusingly enough, the people who whine about this are also generally the people who have a hard time with the first half of Borg Disconnected.
I disagree.
1st of all, I noticed one more thing: from at least 30 matches, noone managed to kill all 3 end ships on normal. And if 30+ random teams cant do that, then theres a problem.
And its not about MY DPS. In my torp ship I can kill 1 of the end DNs like the Voth on my own in due time.
2nd, I prefer my tank ship to all, because almost nothing can kill me. Yeap. Its more fun than DPsing.
My ship was only destroyed once when I 1v1'ed with the Borg Queen until I ran out of all CDs.
Other than that, probably the Battle of K Elite DN's torpedo can kill me, since it's made insta-kill anyway (but no guaranteed, has 2 be tested).
So yes, I make fun of those uber high DPs in PvP when 5 of them fail to kill me while the rest of the team makes some frags.
It's very nice to see the look on their faces when they throw every ability to Super-OP their already OP DPS and the result is a fail.
-LE- @kerfo The problem in STO now is: you cant do any space STF unless you have top gear and unless it's DPS based build ONLY.
My fed sci might only pull 15-20 kdps, but I garuntee anyone flying with me will pull more vaunted dps, and the run will be safer and faster.
Just get behind me and punch holes in things, I will do the heavy lifting.
Effective dps isnt calculated in a simplistic number that can appeal to the ego gratification of the lowest common denominator that populates these channels.
My fed sci might only pull 15-20 kdps, but I garuntee anyone flying with me will pull more vaunted dps, and the run will be safer and faster.
Just get behind me and punch holes in things, I will do the heavy lifting.
Effective dps isnt calculated in a simplistic number that can appeal to the ego gratification of the lowest common denominator that populates these channels.
Agreed. I fly a Wells sci ship. When I was doing ISA yesterday people were moaning that I wasn't blowing things up. When I pointed out that it was me keeping the nanite spheres under control and de-buffing the other spheres, people shut their stupid DPS-hungry faces.
Not really .
As far as I'm concerned , it was not me nor the other players in the public ESTF channels , or the players in the queues that put up a fence with the proverbial sign :
"WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU* !"
* until you jump as high as we've decided
That segregational attitude is all on the DPS channels creators ... , which they are welcome to dismantle any day and rejoin the folk who do not live up on the mountain .
OTOTH it's a good thing they can't segregate anything else or who knows where this could lead ... .
Hmmm , I only heard about two of these "revisions" & their outfalls , but that would explain this "not recruitment drive" that we're seeing .
Segregation is part of STO. There are segregated factions, and there is segregation in what missions/PVE you can do, some you need to be of a specific factions, others require a certain level you have to progress to first, etc.
Every one is able to participate if willing to meet the requirements (there are no requirements no one can meet).
Having said that, real segregation are fleets and the rules/requirements some fleet owners apply. Their behaviour is some time much more elitist the the elitism some believe to see regarding the DPS channels.
Agreed. I fly a Wells sci ship. When I was doing ISA yesterday people were moaning that I wasn't blowing things up. When I pointed out that it was me keeping the nanite spheres under control and de-buffing the other spheres, people shut their stupid DPS-hungry faces.
Just curious... was it an unsuccessful run in the end or did the dps minded players on team save the former optional timer?
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Normal Queues are for people on the lower socio-economic bracket.
Advanced Queues are for slightly richer people, the middle class.
Elite Queues are for the ruling oligarchy, the people who inherited wealth/won life's lotto.
Please explain to me then how in highest DPS channel some people still compete succesfully with F2P standard equipement. (Maybe because they understand the game mechanics?)
Please explain to me then how in highest DPS channel some people still compete succesfully with F2P standard equipement. (Maybe because they understand the game mechanics?)
Well we'll class these people as life's underachievers, those who don't seek work. If they don't fall into that category they are probably an agoraphobic oligarch.
Well we'll class these people as life's underachievers, those who don't seek work. If they don't fall into that category they are probably an agoraphobic oligarch.
What exactly is the under achievement if people with standard equipment achieve more then 99% others?
No one should ever run a 'normal' que more then a handful of times.
Normal ques should be for events you have never run before, you run them to learn how it's played and then move to Advanced.
Why do I say this?
Because Normal doesn't give the rewards that new 50's require. Characters that are in the 'demographic' of Normal ques require items for rep gear (Neural Processors, Cybernetic Implants, etc.) Therefore, Normal ques are useless to new players beyond learning the ropes.
Normal Ques serve no purpose other then learning the ropes, they're completely useless.
Advanced however require much better gear, but they are the ques that give the items that you need to get that gear. If you want to run Advanced and succeed on a regular basis, you need much better gear then normal. If you can't pump put solid DPS your team will fail under the current settings.
So if you're a new player, or a player with lesser gear.. you're 100% screwed. You can't get better gear because you can't run the ques that give better gear because they require better gear to complete. It's the most ridiculous system I have ever seen. Pre DR, it was fine.. I could run the old elites in all white/green Mk XI/Mk XII and actually contribute. Now if I tried this, I would be nothing more then a drain on my team.
Either they need to put Advanced back like it was, or they need to add the Neural Processors, Implants, etc to the Normal Que. The current system sucks beyond belief.
[QUOTENot the point. The mission would have never been successful without a science ship keeping the nanite spheres away from the transformer.][/QUOTE]
It kind of is. I brought a sci cc ship to an isa doing around 10k. Grav well, tyk's rift slowing down the nanite spheres, still failed, because the rest of the group couldn't break 7k dps. If I was running with other 10k plus dps folks, the cc would be nice, but unnecessary. I ran two isa queues yesterday no grav wells in sight , but a boat load of dps, both queues were successful.
People need to face reality cryptic wanted to change the time/reward for these queues so it would fit a metric. Dps is what's needed now to be successful in isa because the Borg are nothing but bags of hp. I love running sci boats with my sci fed captain, but no matter how much control I put out I can't carry a team of low dps folks in a pug. I tried with the scryer, with a vesta, fail and more fail.
I've had the same thing, with at least one player calling me a 'dead weight' when I participated in an instance of ISA in my T5-U Nova, and another saying that I may as well swap my phasers for a water pistol.
And apparently, using crowd control such as GWIII followed by Gravimetric TSIII etc is "pointless" since it isn't pure-DPS.
Summaries my point nicely.
So fair to say, Sci character + Sci ship + ISA = obsolete.
Which is simply stupid really, I mean if it bothers them that much they can go to a private queue and stay there when that's their attitude.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Comments
Why are you trolling the forums, what is your benefit from that? Or is it just your style of communication (which could be, because it is so consistant accross several topics in which you have posted) ?
Really sure :
One of the early posters was correct .
You guys really do need help with your PR ... , because if you keep insisting on the "do it yourself" thing , you might as well go back to grade school .
Or maybe this tip will help you : you are NOT on a typical gamers forum , where sneering at others skillz (solo or in a pack) will get you credit ... . I you want that 12 year old stuff , go post on a CoD forum .
...plus , considering how casual this game is , you might as well be proclaiming to be the "Wizards of Farmville" ...
(and you know ... make yourself's look like an idiot in the process ...)
Otherwise, expect everyone, including "undergeared PuGgers", in those elite queues because, dangit, that's where the rewards are.
Now, I'm not completely insensitive to the needs of the high-end playerbase. Elite is clearly advertised to require "top end gear" and a "solid build" to complete. As such, the proposal I'll put out runs clearly on said boundaries. Full slate of Mk XIV Gold and a T5U11 (equivalent to T6, remember the advertising?) ship.
Said ship, for purposes of this challenge/deal, is a T5U11 DSSV.
Since gear is somewhat easier to spell out, I'll start with: Mk XIV Tetryon weaponry, in a "canon" build with one forward and one aft torpedo launcher (aka kinetic bonus), using what is argued to be the "worst" torpedo type (I've lost track of what's the "worst" torpedo for DPS types). Tac consoles should be 2x Gold Tetryon generators, and 1x of the Torpedo boosters all with that vulnerability trick off the spire (will give this over 2x gold beam consoles and a generic warhead yield booster). Science consoles should be 1x shield cap, 1x shield regen, 1x graviton generator, 1x particle booster, all plasma DoT infused when appropriate, and 2x fleet armor + RCS consoles with that 11th console being one clicky of choice. Most likely Nukara weapons set and KHG / AMACO shield/deflector/engine sets (tetryon boost and sci/torp boosts) with [AMP] and aux-heavy warp core of choice filling out the "middle" of the ship. Obviously, all gold.
Skills are a lot harder to spell out, but, since I went DSSV which is a Science vessel with more engineering than tactical, I'll say that skill points should be scattered along those lines - 6s to 9s in all appropriate science skills to support the BOff powers selected, and a heck of a lot more engineering than tactical - ie, if given a choice to put a 6 in, say, the admiral level energy weapon crit boost skill or the admiral level weapons power boosting skill, the 6 goes into engineering, but don't stockpile engineering to the complete detriment of tactical, even though both the aux power and weapons power raising skills are both admiral level and therefore "6 worthy" over the energy and projectile crit boosting tac skills - partially due to anticipated lack of weapons power on the aux-focused sci build, and partially to ease the activation of [AMP] on the warp core...
Captain's class should be engineer, as they are considered the weakest of the three, though I'm more than game of theorycrafting a 5 Sci captain squadron in a 5 science ship mission.
As you can see, I'm fitting the "intent" of this challenge squarely into the advertising (top end gear and solid build) while accounting for and/or actively discouraging "cookie cuttering" into that "cream of the crop" hyper-top-end stuff of all tacticals with Aux2Batting Scimitars spamming AP-B and BFaW with a judicious rotation of FoMM, AP-A, and GDFs coming from the captains in individual turns all over the map.
If it eases the thought process some, instead of 5x DSSVs let's go 3x DSSVs and 2x Galaxy-Rs, both Galaxys built along the earlier lines (no disruptors / plasma burn / radiation heavy weaponry selections, though you get A2B, AP-B I and BFaW I eating up those 2 tac slots, and again, let's not put tacticals into the cruisers, keep them engies...)
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The same could be said, about these so called dps posts, that try and play it off as, we are not responsible for nothing but, trying to help the community threads.
While at the same time, thumbing their noses at the people who couldn't care less!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Sorry, I don't get your point.
Why should anyone invest so many resources in such a strange build?
Btw. we are not using Aux2Battery. And there are only two (lucky crit) epic beam arrays in my build. Some of my gear is still Mk XII.
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Even STO/Cryptic uses that word to differentiate the PVE queue's
You have Normal queue's, Advanced queue's and Elite queue's
Same counts for difficulty settings. People can play Elite.
Are people offended? I am glad I am not. There is much worse going on in the (real) world.
Hmmmm. No-one, Sarcasm?
It's human nature: there are bell-ends on both sides of this argument.
Not really .
As far as I'm concerned , it was not me nor the other players in the public ESTF channels , or the players in the queues that put up a fence with the proverbial sign :
"WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU* !"
* until you jump as high as we've decided
That segregational attitude is all on the DPS channels creators ... , which they are welcome to dismantle any day and rejoin the folk who do not live up on the mountain .
OTOTH it's a good thing they can't segregate anything else or who knows where this could lead ... .
Hmmm , I only heard about two of these "revisions" & their outfalls , but that would explain this "not recruitment drive" that we're seeing .
It has become so, unfortunately.
Therefore, whats the point of 95% of the items & stuff ?
Practically all ship configurations now must be maxed type-specific tac consoles with everything else weapons support.
Cruisers on normal with 200k hull
Spheres on advanced with 400k HP.
Not even worth mentioning all the missions of HP on elite.
Result: space gameplay limited to top 1% DPS players on elite and top 10% (or maybe even less) on advanced.
What about the rest ?
What about an A.I. instead of mass HP ?
What about elite maps designed to be more tactical-challenging ?
What happened to the Picard way of solving things ?
1. Exploiting ?
Lets be serious, when elite ground kills give you 2 XP out of the 50k+ needed for a cpt spec point, you'll certainly find a way to get some more.
2. DPS only. Explained above, an in one more thousand player re's.
3. Broken exchange. Gone from broken to very broken. This is also explained in a lot of threads.
4. Item upgrade scam. Also intensely-explained. Yep. almost 1 mil dil for an Epic item certainty. Thats fair.
5. Drops do not drop. All ground drops on elite are junk 'small shield/medpack'.
Why dont random mk12 purples drop on elite grounds ? What happened to end-map elite item rewards ?
6. Kits are not upgradeable. So, when ?
Exactly. Pre-Dr I joined a bunch of mates in a T3-ship run of ISE. None of them members of the DPS channel and the majority of them not hardcore STO players. We completed it within the time limit without much difficulty. That isn't what I'd even call advanced difficulty.
Currently the only difficulty I've seen in any advanced queue is when someone does something stupid. If I was paranoid I'd say they were trolls deliberately trying to fail.
Amusingly enough, the people who whine about this are also generally the people who have a hard time with the first half of Borg Disconnected.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
As to the 'scrubs' remark. So you're so 'expert' enough at one video game, you have earned the privilege of looking down your nose at the rest of humanity. My my my. I am indeed impressed with your opinion of yourself.
I've been married 28 years, raised two kids, Served in the US Army as an Abrams tanker, went to the 1st Gulf War, teach people how to drive 18 wheelers for living, Was Driver of the Year for a company with 4,800 other drivers...oh yeah I can also play the saxophone. Don't generally display my accomplishments in public. It is gauche and ill mannered to show off at someone else's expanse.
Keep trying hard to impress us with your epeen, though. Those of us with fully functional real world equipment find it very amusing.
I mean what you're saying is reasonable, just adding a little line to make sure people don't take it the wrong way, saying what you've said but maybe even adding 'if not good hunting' or whatever, keeps it light hearted. But yeah you're on the right lines with what I mean, which is reassuring.
That's a fair point your making, I'm just wandering how that'll work with the timers on Elite difficulty on missions like the Borg STF's, but I think we have to wait and see on that one.
Well then by that working why even bother posting here? Truth is you are all complaining about how your perceived by the player base, yet you aren't willing to accept the reason for it. It's not even about being people made out of rainbows, its just basic manners. Frankly until you guys see that's some of the reason why people don't want to get along with you all then you really have no basis to complain, the old phrase 'Give what you expect to get back' comes to mind.
Like you say, you don't care what people think of you, so if that's the case why even attempt to make friends with the player base again?
DPS is not the end all be all, but if you dont bring enough dps to just roll over it, then bring your game up to the level to complete it.
I can exceed 10k dps in all of my ships but looking for builds to help raise my game. I do not have any gear that is upgraded. I do not use any rep gear from Undine or Delta. I am not using any crafted weapons. I have no crafted gear whatsoever. I can complete Korfez, I can complete BDE, etc.
Even with lower dps team members all the ques can be completed, what they requires is them to come to the team willing to follow strats that will be successful. Problem is that they come with undergeared ships, and still do not know, nor care to follow any strats/tactics.
What this results in is a fail for the mission. Period. Thats just a lack of consideration for the other players. It has nothing to do with them not being elite, it has everything to do with an attitude of not wanting to work for the reward. Why should players who want to put in no effort or very little effort be rewarded with anything?
Want level 60? Its not hard just go at it with an attitude of I need to succeed at this queue or mission. Gaining xp even now is not really that hard, unless you are trying to get a huge amount in a short amount of time. If you dont like that grind, well blame Cryptic because they determined that xp should only come at the rate its at now.
If you want to roll through content like its no problem, then I suggest you up your game, just like in any MMO. If you cannot reach 20k, then there are resources available to help you get there. Reddit anyone????
Are there people who end up with an elitist attitude yes...there are....there is no denying that, is that what the channel creators wanted, I seriously doubt that, or they would just have one channel, and call it 40k....or some other number that is much harder to get at than 10k
You don't like the fact that some people have pride in the fact that they can push the limits, then that is your problem. You dont like the fact that you cannot do content because you dont know how, again thats your problem. There are ways to solve those problems, from learning the strat to boost your dps, or a combination of the two. That is just a starter concept. If you want to succeed doing the content, develop a start that does not require people to have 15k and still win the encounter, if you dont want to take the time to make your gear better.
Problem here is that people have a stance, if you want to be better we will help you to be more like we are and succeed doing what we do. While other people want to complain about why do I have to do it like you. Well, you dont have to do it like the higher dps crowd is doing it, but if you want to succeed without the dps, dont try to do it like the dps crowd, because you wont succeed.
Want to win in BDE, learn some of the strats...2 right off the to of my head, not even hard. 3 aggro 1 for each direction of right, center, and left. 2 floaters 1 right and center while the other is left and center. Floaters move from the two locations they are responsible for getting all disconnected. Aggroers stay in their location and try to get all aggro so Floaters stay out of combat. Simple, Aggroers do NOT have to have a ton of dps, but they have to be able to tank and get aggro.....Another method simliar but different, 2/1/2.....two directions will have 2 people in it, one person gets aggro, the other gets the disconnected; the direction that has one person in it, needs to be in a carrier and let the pets aggro while they get the disconnected, if they need some help, they scream on team chat to get a floater to come get the disconnected while they get things back under control......SIMPLE, its not hard, but if people cannot bother to follow it they will fail. I am sure that there are other strats that will work, and please note in the 2 strats i just listed, I did NOT specify a DPS min. needed to pull this off.
I learned these stats/tactics playing with people in the DPS channel. Why am I in the DPS channels? I am in them because I want to succeed at the content that is available, as well as trying to improve the playing I do in the game. I do not follow everything I see, I do not have to do 70k dps, but I have improved my dps by listening to the advice I have seen, and experimenting. In a narcine, with elite pets but mk12 gear and nothing crafted, I have at times in bde as an aggroer almost been able to solo a direction without needing the floater while firing my weapons. That is a goal I have set for myself, I want to not only handle a direction in bde solo, but kill every mob that spawns, and still get all the disconnected without needing someone to back me up...It will take me a little while to get there, but I will get there, if in the process Crytpic decides to change the content to make it hard because I succeed in a goal, does that make me bad??? I do not think so.
This is a game, and if you are going queue up in this game, my expectation is for you to come prepared to play the game. PREPARED, that requires you to be geared enough to follow a strat, or geared enough to ignore the strats because you bring that much firepower. Eitherway, WE can win, if we work together. On the other hand if you have no intention of following a strat, and you arent going to bring any dps to speak of, then what are doing in the queue? Expecting someone to make up for your lack of preparedness???
So, just to make it very clear to people. Since no one that is hating DPS channel wants to admit. Its not hard to get 10k dmg, its not expensive to get 10k dps, it does require you to prepare your ships, and to do a little research. Now, if you do not want to do that, then you need to atleast be prepared to run the content in such a way that you can succeed, otherwise you are just showing up to leech off the other people there.
No matter how you want to spin it, if you dont have the capability to do the content solely because you do not want to be bothered being prepared to do it, makes you in my eyes inconsiderate, and rude.
Learn the encounters, know what to expect, know what will cause the mission to fail. Prepare yourself to be able to contribute in a meaningful way that will work for the mission. Want to aggro stuff in BDE, be able to tank it. Want to kill the ships in Korfez but dont have the dps, bring some cc, or debuffs to help others kill it faster....Lots of different ways to be useful, but if you cannot be bothered to be productive team member, then I will just call you a scrub or a leech, because thats what you will be.
Cannot accept being called that, then step up and be prepared in some way to do what is necessary to win vs the content that Cryptic has put out there for us to enjoy. I for one enjoy winning, if you enjoy losing, please go be a loser somewhere else. If you want to win and need the help, then I do not mind helping, or even running missions with you to help you get better. I do have problems running them just so you can get the rewards with no effort expended.
Just so you dont forget....None of my ships have any crafted gear, none of my ships has any lobi consoles or weapons, I think the only Undine rep I have on any ships is the rep torp, which I really dont use that loadout right now. So, basically my ships are outfitted with mk12 gear, which is readily available to players. I am not using any romlan rep gear on my ships either, even though plenty do. I do use some dyson rep gear, I do use fleet rep gear. Again, this stuff is obtainable by any player if they bother to use the resources out there. Now some of the fleet gear can take a while to get but thats just another grind.
So, now you have a strat for an elite queue, that will work for lots of people, if they will be bothered to follow it. You do not need to be stuck in BDA, you do not need lots of DPS, but you do need to be able to do more than push a single button, you have to play role you will sign up for...Good Luck, I truly hope you succeed and have fun. After all, that why we should all be playing.
If you won't stop quoting ppl without using their names , I'll start to ignore what you're saying . :cool:
My open mindedness ends when e-peen leads to unnecessary segregation .
That segregation can be within a Fleet , or within a player community ... be they PVP or PVE .
The cherry picking of the PVP community into several "elite" fleets left it in not such a pretty place (by now many of the better players there have just up and left) , and the segregation of the STF players will lead to the same .
We CAN all play together and have fun .
We DON'T NEED several shrinking communities .
We are STRONGER TOGETHER then apart .
I say NO to segregation based on DPS !
Aaand at this point I'm left to wonder if your brain is getting all the oxygen it needs ... .
Most things you had said were making quite a bit of sense, well, until this part. That's actually a pretty farfetched statement right there. Actually, it's terrifying. Now, before I go all bonkers I will say yes that it is very agreeable that people should all put their hands in when in a teamed scenario. That is why it's called a "team".
Mmm, but playing "just for fun." being a bad thing... oh, I've seen this in so many games so many times. Man, it's the same mindset in every game that believes "playing for fun" is a bad thing. Yes, you did say playing for fun in solo content was fine. I have no problems there. But, where does fun end and seriousness begin? After all, if fun does not belong in a scenario, then obviously this is taken seriously. But, wait. That defeats the purpose of games, doesn't it? Here, I'll link a video for everyone to see what I mean and I'll explain more below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBy1OwlWzYU
(Video is just to help back things up by the way.)
This is a recording (although not best quality, I know) of me playing World of Tanks some time ago. What's this have to do with STO? A lot, actually. You see, World of Tanks is a competitive game and very team-based. This means everyone must pull their part. You only get 1 life a match by the way. No respawns here. The funny thing though is I have a lot of fun in that game. I play for fun. What happens in that video right there was for "fun."
Did I save the day? Maybe. Did I end up carrying the team at the end? In some peoples eyes, yes. Did I totally wreck some enemies? You betcha. Did I rack up some kills? Totally. Did I do a lot of damage by the end of that match? Affirmative. But, what did I do it for? Fun. Did it for fun. Fun is what I play games for. Obviously, I played to win, but winning wasn't the fun part. It was the intensity of that match. That was the fun. And I sure as heck could not do it without the other 14 people on my team. Mad props to all those folks. Even the little guys in the match. Also, I will admit the last part of that video was awkward....
Funny part? I'm considered a crappy/average player in World of Tanks due to the "efficiency" rating people came up with. Yep, the guy who helped their team to victory is a TRIBBLE player. They even created a coding table to color people in battle of who is bad and who is good thanks to stat readers. For every milestone of efficiency you reach (6k, 7k, 8k), you get labelled. The "Pros" in this game, that Wargaming also caters to and claims them as the best of the best, actually believe that "playing for fun" is bad player talk. Yep, I play that game for fun and even when I help a team out greatly I'm a terribad player who should uninstall. (For the record, not saying all people with the DPS logs are that bad or even bad at all. But, there are a quite a few in STO).
Now, Star Trek Online is no different. You queue up into a match to be part of a team and are going up against a challenge of some kind. As you said, people must pull their part. Again, agreeable. But, just because someone goes into a match does not mean they can't have fun. Just because someone is having fun does not mean they are inefficient.
I'd also like to note, STO has a much better community than that game and that's why I tend to play STO. There's a lot of great people who do play this game. No matter what group they belong to.
Here, I'll be more relevant with STO now and explain some recent fun things:
I have a KDF raptor, the new Tier 6 raptor to be exact. I enjoy it. Love it so much. I enjoy it more than playing a Scimitar (I have Scimitar, but don't enjoy it sadly. Even if it does have DPS.) I have played the new advanced missions and I pull around 15k DPS, give or take. It's a cannon build with 1 torpedo. Mk 11 blue cannons, Mk X Borg Set (yep, the old Mk 10 set. I still use Mk 10 Maco, too!), very simple build, no rep items really besides the borg set, no fleet items (not in a fleet or access), and I have a very strange build on it as far as abilities would be concerned, but yet I've been able to pull out this damage. I went with minimality because I no longer care for trying to be the best. That got boring in SWG, I'm not doing it again. And I'm glad you're not trying to force me, props to you fine people for that. It's great to not force others. That's respecting others, that's good. No problem there.
I could totally make a better build, sure, but I'm doing efficient at minimum and even passing pug queues without a hitch, able to tank a tact cube while doing DPS while sitting in one spot most of the time. I am having fun. I am helping my team, others are happy, I'm having fun. If they didn't have fun for some odd reason because I'm not doing 50k DPS, well, jokes on them. I don't care. Why? Well, I don't want to be X.K. Who's that? Oh, well, there was this guy back in Star Wars Galaxies who was a self-proclaimed demi-god. (I'm not saying his full name.) He defined skill as having 6 rows of buffs and nothing but the best of best gear on. In reality, he was a joke. He became the laughing stock of the game. He even made videos trying to show how pro he was in PVP, yet, he believed gear and buffs was skill. My friend fought him in the nude one day. X.K. died. This guy had a cult following. (Shocking, right?)
Don't become X.K. No one should. You never go full X.K. That's what I'm afraid of seeing here. Another X.K. Now, many of you folks have been nice and haven't said anything bad really or even tried to be bad. But, yeah, seems some asserting justification for being rude will lead one to going full X.K.
By the way, I'm sitting on my super high-mighty chair made of leather and embedded with lobi lining the sides of my chair while typing this post to correct your statement of "just for fun crowd is bad in queues and stuff" even though I'm trying to say this out of helping you realize that it's not. (That's probably some terrible positioned humor and sounds like a mockery, although I'm just making fun of myself for being that "correction" guy.)
The part I am sadly starting to notice though is this game is no longer fun for you, or your buddies and many people in the game (and rightfully so in many cases). All these threads and things being made seem more like an attack on the devs and in some cases your fellow players. As other people have said, that's a bad low right there. Why? What's more strange is you have defended the majority of the player base (respect there.), yet at the same-time you have shoveled the majority in certain statements, such as above.. (I'm reading dictionary on what respect means now.) It seems like various people are trying to be on both sides of the fence here and that is problematic and it's biting them no matter what they say now. (Doing one extreme, then doing another extreme to justify the other basically, even if it was out of some attempt of goodness)
This whole DPS channel what not. These things can start out as good, but they tend to spiral downward after some time it seems. They're like a phoenix, they are born, they die, they are reborn, they die. In the end, they are still a phoenix. You guys may've started the whole DPS stuff out of good faith, but after watching this game for years, silently in the shadows, reading forums, I'm watching things decay. It's depressing. That's just the community in general. too. Delta Rising has, well, gotten a rise out of everyone. They're off the charts. Everyone's temper is so high, it'd take 60 of your scimitars DPS to match the circumstance. And that statistic is being generous.
Obviously, many people here love STO though. Feel like I'm just watching people (everyone) starting to take it out on each other and attack in all directions. Everyone just initiated Fire at Will, the new Expansion errors just placated you, and now allies are being fired on. Although, this isn't just limited to one person or a group. Seems like everyone's firing at each other. Better slot some Science Team, folks.
Closure/Summary
At the chances of trailing off a lot in my post, here's the summarized version. Fun can be found in many forms. The "just for fun" crowd, was a poor choice of words and can bite you in the hangar bay. You probably do mean good in many ways, I won't dispute that, but given recent things you may want to slow down a bit. Not trying to attack you on this, just trying to give an explanation from a different point of view.
Some people are trying to give you DPSer guys a chance if you noticed (maybe it hasn't come across that way, same as your tone hasn't come across them properly. Everyone's being rough, even if on accident). From what I'm seeing, they care about you guys. Sure, some might hate, but many people see that there are people who know math and such and are willing to help and people appreciate that. What's happening here is a massive amount of tension and miscommunication is happening and a gap is now being created. This is not good for the health of the community or any reputation that may exist. We all need to suck it up and shut up and put our energy to good use. Like, showing that good energy to the devs in a positive, meaningful, but powerful way as a community as a whole. Not just individuals trying to 1-up each other in who has the biggest problem or who was mistaken (seems most are)
To everyone, honestly, I'd hate to see this community fall apart. Everyone here obviously loves STO, regardless of what we do in it. That's why we're upset. What we love is being hurt and that hurts us. Unfortunately, we're taking it out on each other as some have stated. This has caused so much tension that we're trying to destroy each other. We want someone to feel our pain. I can tell you right now, that's not the right way. Insulting the devs, wanting them to suffer, mocking them, making fun won't help. It will make them want to have everyone suffer more. I remember something along the lines of being mentioned that why would the devs want to interact with something so horrible? It's not fun for them, it's certainly not fun for us. Example: this thread right here. Nothing but a ferengi saying his business is better than the other's while trying to give tips on better business, yet the other claiming their business is flourishing just fine and... whatever I'm losing my train of thought at this point. LOL
There may be some elitism happening, there may be some misjudged feelings, there may be misinterpretations. If there is one thing though, we need to chill and do something better than this. This thread's gotten to the point of just attacks it looks like (and I'm sure this was not intended either. I know it wasn't).
Many of you folks have excellent points, but guys, you gotta relax. Go to Risa, relax, take a moment to yourself and think. (Just don't go out at night because... you know who.)
P.S.: If anyone got confused, fell asleep or had a brain explosion during my post for any reason, let me know. Hopefully this turned out well being typed in the wee hours of the morning.
I disagree.
1st of all, I noticed one more thing: from at least 30 matches, noone managed to kill all 3 end ships on normal. And if 30+ random teams cant do that, then theres a problem.
And its not about MY DPS. In my torp ship I can kill 1 of the end DNs like the Voth on my own in due time.
2nd, I prefer my tank ship to all, because almost nothing can kill me. Yeap. Its more fun than DPsing.
My ship was only destroyed once when I 1v1'ed with the Borg Queen until I ran out of all CDs.
Other than that, probably the Battle of K Elite DN's torpedo can kill me, since it's made insta-kill anyway (but no guaranteed, has 2 be tested).
So yes, I make fun of those uber high DPs in PvP when 5 of them fail to kill me while the rest of the team makes some frags.
It's very nice to see the look on their faces when they throw every ability to Super-OP their already OP DPS and the result is a fail.
-LE-
@kerfo The problem in STO now is: you cant do any space STF unless you have top gear and unless it's DPS based build ONLY.
Just get behind me and punch holes in things, I will do the heavy lifting.
Effective dps isnt calculated in a simplistic number that can appeal to the ego gratification of the lowest common denominator that populates these channels.
Agreed. I fly a Wells sci ship. When I was doing ISA yesterday people were moaning that I wasn't blowing things up. When I pointed out that it was me keeping the nanite spheres under control and de-buffing the other spheres, people shut their stupid DPS-hungry faces.
Free Tibet!
Segregation is part of STO. There are segregated factions, and there is segregation in what missions/PVE you can do, some you need to be of a specific factions, others require a certain level you have to progress to first, etc.
Every one is able to participate if willing to meet the requirements (there are no requirements no one can meet).
Having said that, real segregation are fleets and the rules/requirements some fleet owners apply. Their behaviour is some time much more elitist the the elitism some believe to see regarding the DPS channels.
Just curious... was it an unsuccessful run in the end or did the dps minded players on team save the former optional timer?
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Normal Queues are for people on the lower socio-economic bracket.
Advanced Queues are for slightly richer people, the middle class.
Elite Queues are for the ruling oligarchy, the people who inherited wealth/won life's lotto.
Please explain to me then how in highest DPS channel some people still compete succesfully with F2P standard equipement. (Maybe because they understand the game mechanics?)
Not the point. The mission would have never been successful without a science ship keeping the nanite spheres away from the transformer.
Free Tibet!
Well we'll class these people as life's underachievers, those who don't seek work. If they don't fall into that category they are probably an agoraphobic oligarch.
What exactly is the under achievement if people with standard equipment achieve more then 99% others?
Normal ques should be for events you have never run before, you run them to learn how it's played and then move to Advanced.
Why do I say this?
Because Normal doesn't give the rewards that new 50's require. Characters that are in the 'demographic' of Normal ques require items for rep gear (Neural Processors, Cybernetic Implants, etc.) Therefore, Normal ques are useless to new players beyond learning the ropes.
Normal Ques serve no purpose other then learning the ropes, they're completely useless.
Advanced however require much better gear, but they are the ques that give the items that you need to get that gear. If you want to run Advanced and succeed on a regular basis, you need much better gear then normal. If you can't pump put solid DPS your team will fail under the current settings.
So if you're a new player, or a player with lesser gear.. you're 100% screwed. You can't get better gear because you can't run the ques that give better gear because they require better gear to complete. It's the most ridiculous system I have ever seen. Pre DR, it was fine.. I could run the old elites in all white/green Mk XI/Mk XII and actually contribute. Now if I tried this, I would be nothing more then a drain on my team.
Either they need to put Advanced back like it was, or they need to add the Neural Processors, Implants, etc to the Normal Que. The current system sucks beyond belief.
Not true. The transformer goes down in a high dps group before the spheres reach it to regenerate.
It kind of is. I brought a sci cc ship to an isa doing around 10k. Grav well, tyk's rift slowing down the nanite spheres, still failed, because the rest of the group couldn't break 7k dps. If I was running with other 10k plus dps folks, the cc would be nice, but unnecessary. I ran two isa queues yesterday no grav wells in sight , but a boat load of dps, both queues were successful.
People need to face reality cryptic wanted to change the time/reward for these queues so it would fit a metric. Dps is what's needed now to be successful in isa because the Borg are nothing but bags of hp. I love running sci boats with my sci fed captain, but no matter how much control I put out I can't carry a team of low dps folks in a pug. I tried with the scryer, with a vesta, fail and more fail.
Which is simply stupid really, I mean if it bothers them that much they can go to a private queue and stay there when that's their attitude.