I've had the same thing, with at least one player calling me a 'dead weight' when I participated in an instance of ISA in my T5-U Nova, and another saying that I may as well swap my phasers for a water pistol.
And apparently, using crowd control such as GWIII followed by Gravimetric TSIII etc is "pointless" since it isn't pure-DPS.
Summaries my point nicely.
So fair to say, Sci character + Sci ship + ISA = obsolete.
And? Did it hurt your ego, or did you just laugh about the stupid remarks? I for example feel never offended by someone who does not know me.
What exactly is the under achievement if people with standard equipment achieve more then 99% others?
Life's achievements != game's achievements
On a less serious note, DPS != Skill nor does better gear. As it stands more DPS is indicative of either lots of time sunk into the game or lots of money.
Sure you can make a fantastically thought out built, but it doesn't really count for anything compared to someone with an okay build who has top tier gear.
We're talking about extremely TRIBBLE progression now.
As many have said, this game had an appeal to the less hardcore because they could achieve something within a reasonable amount of time. Due to the now stunted growth, it's less appealing for a vast majority of players.
Slowing progression is fine, but don't slow it to the point where it feels like the end is never in sight.
It kind of is. I brought a sci cc ship to an isa doing around 10k. Grav well, tyk's rift slowing down the nanite spheres, still failed, because the rest of the group couldn't break 7k dps. If I was running with other 10k plus dps folks, the cc would be nice, but unnecessary. I ran two isa queues yesterday no grav wells in sight , but a boat load of dps, both queues were successful.
People need to face reality cryptic wanted to change the time/reward for these queues so it would fit a metric. Dps is what's needed now to be successful in isa because the Borg are nothing but bags of hp. I love running sci boats with my sci fed captain, but no matter how much control I put out I can't carry a team of low dps folks in a pug. I tried with the scryer, with a vesta, fail and more fail.
If it makes you feel better. I like having a sci with GW in a team when I do massive DPS. Also I like when they subnuke on time the Borg Queen in HSE etc. So to all my advise: please stop being annoyed with people who show noob behavior or symply enjoy being offensive.
please stop being annoyed with people who show noob behavior or symply enjoy being offensive.
This is the big problem with Advanced.
You have to expect noob players in Advanced, those players have no choice.
They put out 'normal' mode for these players, but they cannot play that mode, it's useless to them. They need processors that they can't get in Normal Mode so new and under geared players have to play Advanced. They have no choice, there is no other way to progress.
Problem is, the way Advanced ques are now, if you get new or undergeared players in your group, you fail. It's not their fault, they have no choice but to try and compete in ques they can't handle. Crypitc is not leaving them options.
The end result is that new players get frustrated and quit because they have no way to compete, they're a constant anchor and they have no way around it.
Veteran players also quit because they're tired of failing over and over because you can't carry a low DPS party because everything takes hours to kill.
Cryptic has done a first class job of making the Que system universally unappealing to everyone. It's absolutely pathetic. Had they just left the ques as they were and simply added Elite Mode it would have satisfied everyone, everyone would have a place.
Instead they have created a DPS race that everyone loses.
If it makes you feel better. I like having a sci with GW in a team when I do massive DPS. Also I like when they subnuke on time the Borg Queen in HSE etc. So to all my advise: please stop being annoyed with people who show noob behavior or symply enjoy being offensive.
GW is useful. That's why I usually take it even when I fly escorts, cruiser or carriers. I hope Fleet Eclipse gets that LtC science station.
There is nothing wrong with sci captains flying sci ships. Again cryptic made this mess.
There will always be a******s in the game. I once had a guy pm me to berate me on my use of faw, and how I was inferior. Another idiot was role playing as a racist (human league or some non-sense), and decided to berate the fact I was a Klingon and died because as usual I get all the aggro because of dps (tanking is so dead in this game). One idiot with no understanding of game mechanics does not reflect everyone that is trying to do more damage.
A dedicated sci control/healer should be an option, but if you dedicate too many boff powers to healing/control now and try isa in a pug you will fail. Cryptic did a good job railroading folks into the dps race with their floating bags of hp. It's not harder it just takes longer. I do hope they fix it. Until then I am segregating myself and doing advanced only with dps channel folks. Tired of failure, because cryptic didn't think their strategy through.
Elite is clearly advertised to require "top end gear" and a "solid build" to complete. As such, the proposal I'll put out runs clearly on said boundaries. Full slate of Mk XIV Gold and a T5U11 (equivalent to T6, remember the advertising?) ship.
Said ship, for purposes of this challenge/deal, is a T5U11 DSSV.
Why should anyone invest so many resources in such a strange build?
Btw. we are not using Aux2Battery. And there are only two (lucky crit) epic beam arrays in my build. Some of my gear is still Mk XII.
Said challenge exists for one reason, and one reason only. I am not advanced, nor arrogant, enough to dictate build-terms to the elite, min-maxxers, and PvPers - aka I want to run an X ship with Y weapons and you will cave to me. However, I am arrogant enough to request / demand that the bar for entry be built around a "low common denominator". 3/3 DSSV with 2 tactical BOff slots is low enough for me since it has the least amount of what DPS kings value, and results in a situation that nobody should be "L2Ped" out of an elite because of their ship itself, as long as it's T5U11 or better (endgame level) - since outside of an engie or sci CMDR BOffed Recluse, every other T5U11 hits this 2 Tac BOff slot and most likely 3 tac console bar. Using the suckiest weapon in the game means that someone who picks that one weapon for thematic use or it's proc (I remember being told that some of the easiest queen diamond kills in early ItHS came when me and my fleetie ran tetryon weapons and managed to proc often enough to keep the queen's shields redline thin the entire battle) won't be laughed out of a battle because of beam color. I am also arrogant enough to force these people to meet the "letter" of the advertising - Max gear and solid build - and I'm arrogant enough to define "solid skill build" as something that does not count 6s or 9s in every weapon affecting tactical skill, partially because if you're flying a science-engineering ship, your skills should be science and engineering focused, not tactical focus to everything. Forcing a "canon" build with mandatory energy and projectile mixes both fore and aft again sets a reasonable bar, fits the example of every starter build on every starship in game and allows but does not mandate all energy builds or all projectile builds.
Build the "best lemon" you can, balance for that lemon, and suddenly the intent of the Elite level is met without excluding the majority of the playerbase. Yes, there will still be that troll who insists that their "not quite best lemon but the most they want to put into the build" ship should be elite, hence majority instead of everyone. L2P commentary will be directed to people who don't actually know the game (play by the deciphered strategy that is necessary to let the 5x lemons beat the level) instead of as a discriminatory comment based solely off of weapons color or hull choice.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
There is nothing wrong with sci captains flying sci ships. Again cryptic made this mess.
There will always be a******s in the game. I once had a guy pm me to berate me on my use of faw, and how I was inferior. Another idiot was role playing as a racist (human league or some non-sense), and decided to berate the fact I was a Klingon and died because as usual I get all the aggro because of dps (tanking is so dead in this game). One idiot with no understanding of game mechanics does not reflect everyone that is trying to do more damage.
A dedicated sci control/healer should be an option, but if you dedicate too many boff powers to healing/control now and try isa in a pug you will fail. Cryptic did a good job railroading folks into the dps race with their floating bags of hp. It's not harder it just takes longer. I do hope they fix it. Until then I am segregating myself and doing advanced only with dps channel folks. Tired of failure, because cryptic didn't think their strategy through.
ISA is bad but, KSA is even worse as, 9 out of every 10 runs it seems for me in pugs, I get stuck with people who don't want to take care of the probes or, fail to realize they need be stopped from reaching the gate or, maybe don't care to stop them (as in trolling the group), I don't know!
Either way, it spells auto-fail.
I can tell you, that 8-10k dps (CC included) can barely prevent the probes (all 8 of them) from reaching the gate, when being stuck having to kill them all by yourself, whilst the other's seemingly are oblivious of them even existing.
The freaking things have some 10X the hp they used to, that's just plain TRIBBLE! (10X might be slightly incorrect but, close enough)
And CSA, wow that on goes to hell quicker than the devil himself!
I get there is some strategy involved in these mission but, even when all 5 player's are on their A game as far as what needs to be done, advanced queues still force them to have to meet a dps minimum, that is roughly 5X greater, than prior to DR!
And that, is what tends to kill the fun and enjoyment for, a multitude of people who don't feel the need or, want to be forced into narrowing their build variety, just because it doesn't put out tons of dps.
Cryptic has done a first class job of making the Que system universally unappealing to everyone. It's absolutely pathetic. Had they just left the ques as they were and simply added Elite Mode it would have satisfied everyone, everyone would have a place.
You are so very very right.
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You have to expect noob players in Advanced, those players have no choice.
They put out 'normal' mode for these players, but they cannot play that mode, it's useless to them. They need processors that they can't get in Normal Mode so new and under geared players have to play Advanced. They have no choice, there is no other way to progress.
Problem is, the way Advanced ques are now, if you get new or undergeared players in your group, you fail. It's not their fault, they have no choice but to try and compete in ques they can't handle. Crypitc is not leaving them options.
The end result is that new players get frustrated and quit because they have no way to compete, they're a constant anchor and they have no way around it.
Veteran players also quit because they're tired of failing over and over because you can't carry a low DPS party because everything takes hours to kill.
Cryptic has done a first class job of making the Que system universally unappealing to everyone. It's absolutely pathetic. Had they just left the ques as they were and simply added Elite Mode it would have satisfied everyone, everyone would have a place.
Instead they have created a DPS race that everyone loses.
Every one is able to participate if willing to meet the requirements
EliteSTF
STFRaiders
RealEliteSTF
TheHIVE
That is just a partial list of STF channels I can pull from memory that have come and gone over the years ... , and they had one thing in common -- all that was required is for you to be able to finish an STF .
Most if not all were also open to show a newbie the ropes , if one member vouched for them .
NONE had any other artificial requirements like DPS .
(there are no requirements no one can meet).
YEEEEAH ... , that's like STORyan claiming "gear is not a big deal ..." -- while simultaneously they promote builds that house Lobi consoles & Doffs that cost millions or even hundreds of millions on top of many a lockbox / zen ship .
So those builds are clearly from the poorhouse ... , because "gear doesn't really play a big role in this game" .
I have done plenty of 10k or near 10k builds on a shoe string budget. If you want to hit the max dps that someone like sarcasmdetector does yeah, you need expensive gear. General 10k dps? Rare mk Xi gear and a t5 ship is all you need. I think I have an alt with no doffs that hit 10k. 10k is not elitist or a high bar, all it requires is basic understanding of game mechanics, which as I said before cryptic does a terrible job of explaining in game.
I find it funny how people are taking offense to the DPS Channels. These guys are not Elitists, they are Elite Players, who understand the mechanics and functionality of this game to beat down whatever difficulty is presented before them.
I do respectable DPS and i've lost count since the STF's were broken up into space and ground where in KASE i've had to knock down all the cubes that get spawned as 3 pugs on 1 cube can't destroy it. Or CSE having to rescue the optional as 2 guys cannot defend against 4 BOP's or 4 guys cannot if i'm on Kang duty handle 1 station and are blowing up right,left and centre when they spawn the Negh'var and Raptor guard.
It is a pleasure playing STF's and game content with the guys from these channels as every match is a breeze and successful.
i don't have to carry 2-3 people through STF's as their firepower or crowd control/disable/debuff abilities aren't even tickling the NPC.
So you guys who are turning you're nose up at the DPS crowd thats you're choice and you're mistake to make.
I personally don't want to go playing Advanced and Elite content with someone in a Galaxy-R or a Intrepid who can't break 2000k DPS, because that means more work for me, a longer mission, and a fail doing these missions and a increased difficulty due to a poor ship build by the player.
This makes for a bad game experience for me
(I singled out the Galaxy-r and Intrepid not because i dislike these ships, but because for Higher difficulty levels their single lt tact station makes them very poor ships choices to use due to low dps potential)
Like it or not Cryptic with the increased Hitpoint and Shield wall they introduced to NPC's for DR does mean the player having to make their ship punch harder than post DR.
And remember the success of every space mission in the PvE queues relies on 2 things BEATING THE TIMER, MEANING BLOWING TARGETS UP. thats what DPS is for and the more you have the easier the game becomes
You have to expect noob players in Advanced, those players have no choice.
They put out 'normal' mode for these players, but they cannot play that mode, it's useless to them. They need processors that they can't get in Normal Mode so new and under geared players have to play Advanced. They have no choice, there is no other way to progress.
Normal doesn't give the rewards that new 50's require. Characters that are in the 'demographic' of Normal ques require items for rep gear (Neural Processors, Cybernetic Implants, etc.) Therefore, Normal ques are useless to new players beyond learning the ropes.
People keep saying this, but it's rather disingenuous. BNPs are only necessary for the Omega ground gear and the Omega space sets. APCs are only necessary for the Delta gear. There's plenty of other end-game sets that don't require either in the other reputation systems, and no other components require doing Advanced queues.
You can easily gear up elsewhere before working on getting BNPs. For example, the CC Deflector (trivial to attain IIs) and Rom Engines (no extra things required) are the general BiS, and the Nukara alternative don't need any components either. Nor does the KCB and Assimiliated console, or (obviously) the Zero-Point.
Queues are not necessary for IIs or VCIs, and are actually the worst possible way to get them in terms of effort:reward. In that vein, I'll say again that they should make BNPs rewards on Deferi, and APCs rewards on Kobali.
Build the "best lemon" you can, balance for that lemon, and suddenly the intent of the Elite level is met without excluding the majority of the playerbase. Yes, there will still be that troll who insists that their "not quite best lemon but the most they want to put into the build" ship should be elite, hence majority instead of everyone. L2P commentary will be directed to people who don't actually know the game (play by the deciphered strategy that is necessary to let the 5x lemons beat the level) instead of as a discriminatory comment based solely off of weapons color or hull choice.
This makes sense. If they're going to balance Advanced around mandatory group DPS, that number should be based on the best possible DPS from the worst possible end game ship.
That is just a partial list of STF channels I can pull from memory that have come and gone over the years ... , and they had one thing in common -- all that was required is for you to be able to finish an STF .
Most if not all were also open to show a newbie the ropes , if one member vouched for them .
NONE had any other artificial requirements like DPS .
YEEEEAH ... , that's like STORyan claiming "gear is not a big deal ..." -- while simultaneously they promote builds that house Lobi consoles & Doffs that cost millions or even hundreds of millions on top of many a lockbox / zen ship .
So those builds are clearly from the poorhouse ... , because "gear doesn't really play a big role in this game" .
Still not interested ... , so don't parse me bro.
Artificial requirement? Its a real requirement, not artificial....
Oh and those channels you listed, they had a requirement as well, guess by your definition of artificial those had artificial requirements as well, since they had requirements....As for your poorhouse comment, anyone who spends time can get any lockbox ship ever released in this game....after all they are all on the exchange, and even those ships that have been held to make scarce can be gotten by using the exchange, though some sellers might want keys in large amounts, but those keys can be gotten from the exchange....poorhouse to me means someone who cannot bother to farm what needs to be farmed to get decent gear.
If its just a matter of time, then its not they are in the poorhouse, its that they are still beginning the game. Now some who wont apply themselves to being better in the game, will stay "in the poorhouse" because they are just too lazy, IMO, to make a better situation. Before you come back saying you dont have the time to invest...well guess what, thats not my problem, I dont care, because the fact of the matter is you do have the time, it just make take you longer to get there. Guess what, taking longer at something is just that, taking longer. Its like having money, you might not have as much as I do or you might have more, but the fact is that taking more time is the only way you are going to get more of it, because it takes time to make it by doing something that will earn it.
Oh and dont worry about parsing, with you being in the poorhouse, and not interested, you should not be in the group, after all, being poor and all you cannot afford to outfit a ship to do the content, you will need to be on the forums complaining about its too hard to play, and it needs to be easier, because you dont hae time to get out of the poorhouse, and being on the forums complaining, and grind rep, and grinding xp, etc....
I am not sure what is in this game that cannot be acquired by anyone through game play with no real world money being spent, other than a very few select limited time only items from before the game launched....but then I dont stress over things like that....dil converts to zen, zen buys zen store items, ec can purchase keys, and ec can be farmed by the million+ per hour, lobies are given away every so often, so please tell me how people cannot acquire whatever they desire given enough time????
ryansto your are full of bs if you claim you maxxed out all your specialization points in DQ patrols. I dont care how much dps you pve heroes do. Why dont you be honest with yourself and the community about how you used your high dps to farm TD patrols 17 times faster then the average player.That is how you got maxxed spec points not by using your uber dps in the DQ patrols.There are alot of above average players that farmed TD patrols for days and never got max spec points. So if you claim to have done it in DQ patrols I call BULL ****. Do the math you wouldnt have enough time in the day at the xp that DQ patrols give to reach max spec in that short of a time. I saw 1 of your pve hero buddies bragging in opvp that he had 3 toons almost max. That for sure was done in TD patrols not DQ patrols . So quit your crying you used an exploit got caught they rolled you back partially not even all the way get over it already. If your uber dps is that much of an advantage then it should be no prob to get those points back. If you want to claim you did it in DQ only prove it provide some math on xp you got in DQ patrols and time you spent to get max and i might believe you but until then go pet a panda.
People keep saying this, but it's rather disingenuous. BNPs are only necessary for the Omega ground gear and the Omega space sets. APCs are only necessary for the Delta gear. There's plenty of other end-game sets that don't require either in the other reputation systems, and no other components require doing Advanced queues.
You can easily gear up elsewhere before working on getting BNPs. For example, the CC Deflector (trivial to attain IIs) and Rom Engines (no extra things required) are the general BiS, and the Nukara alternative don't need any components either. Nor does the KCB and Assimiliated console, or (obviously) the Zero-Point.
Queues are not necessary for IIs or VCIs, and are actually the worst possible way to get them in terms of effort:reward. In that vein, I'll say again that they should make BNPs rewards on Deferi, and APCs rewards on Kobali.
Or, just reward VR material packs and one rep item from a normal queue, a multiple of Normal from Advanced, and a multiple of Advanced from Elite.
This makes sense. If they're going to balance Advanced around mandatory group DPS, that number should be based on the best possible DPS from the worst possible end game ship.
Absolutely. I would suggest the Kazon Raider as benchmark T5U, as if anyone deserves to be restricted from Advanced and Elite content based on ship and build it is them.
I for one don't refer to anyone as a scrub. If Fleets did a better job talking and training players this would not be a problem. My fleet is limited to 500 so we can only train so many ensigns. We just started a KDF branch as well another 500. If your not helping players your part of the problem. I prefer to be part of the solution. I have yet to meet a player that wants to invest there time and effort in this or any game to suck. That's my dollar two ninety five.
I am a CC sci captain on the toon that I use for space STF's. I am doing better than 2.5 I but I am certainly not set up for highest DPS and have never cracked 10k.
Unfortunately, there is a reason I only go into non-normal queues of any type with my fleet (with the exception pre DR of Undine Infiltration Elite--ground, which goes to my point) and it's embodied in some of the posts in this thread. Now, we DO have some high-DPS people in our fleet but the difference is that I don't get a side order of attitude with it when I am in the mood to go play with them. There's an understanding of different play styles and how we can work together to get the job done.
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They are if, you want to break that 15k barrier and, the 20k barrier.
15k is, Cryptic's idea of majority player dps range it seems, boy are they wrong huh?
As usual, you fail to read what you quoted - the person was doing 15k on Mk XI gear, with none of what you say is a must have in order to break 15-20k.
15k DPS is an amount every T5 in STO can do. Even the Kazon ship could do it. (but not the Kazon themselves, they couldn't even spell DPS let alone actually do some)
ryansto your are full of bs if you claim you maxxed out all your specialization points in DQ patrols. I dont care how much dps you pve heroes do. Why dont you be honest with yourself and the community about how you used your high dps to farm TD patrols 17 times faster then the average player.That is how you got maxxed spec points not by using your uber dps in the DQ patrols.There are alot of above average players that farmed TD patrols for days and never got max spec points. So if you claim to have done it in DQ patrols I call BULL ****. Do the math you wouldnt have enough time in the day at the xp that DQ patrols give to reach max spec in that short of a time. I saw 1 of your pve hero buddies bragging in opvp that he had 3 toons almost max. That for sure was done in TD patrols not DQ patrols . So quit your crying you used an exploit got caught they rolled you back partially not even all the way get over it already. If your uber dps is that much of an advantage then it should be no prob to get those points back. If you want to claim you did it in DQ only prove it provide some math on xp you got in DQ patrols and time you spent to get max and i might believe you but until then go pet a panda.
Who exactly cares what you believe or not? Why should anyone proof anything to you? Who are you? You write like you think you are the boss, ha ha ha.
Or, just reward VR material packs and one rep item from a normal queue, a multiple of Normal from Advanced, and a multiple of Advanced from Elite.
Solves every issue then.
Absolutely. I would suggest the Kazon Raider as benchmark T5U, as if anyone deserves to be restricted from Advanced and Elite content based on ship and build it is them.
If anything should be the benchmark, it should probably be a tier4 bop, considering many people may be stuck using a tier4 freebie/MU ship to progress to tier5u or, tier6!
As usual, you fail to read what you quoted - the person was doing 15k on Mk XI gear, with none of what you say is a must have in order to break 15-20k.
15k DPS is an amount every T5 in STO can do. Even the Kazon ship could do it. (but not the Kazon themselves, they couldn't even spell DPS let alone actually do some)
Funny, how every top dps listed ship I usually see, has the same listed money toys required to...well be the top.
So to break a certain dps barrier, it is in fact a requirement by the dps elite, even if they don't actually say it with words.
The comment was made accordingly, I read just fine, maybe you can do the same huh?
Because in their own words, they never mentioned breaking that 15k mark, let alone getting to 20k using the same gear/build!
If anything should be the benchmark, it should probably be a tier4 bop, considering many people may be stuck using a tier4 freebie/MU ship to progress to tier5u or, tier6!
Otherwise, your suggestion isn't a bad idea.
Normal Queues only need 3-4k DPS to do. I could do that on a T1 ship, players like the OP could (and in fact have) done it in shuttles.
The original point was about the minimum for Elite - and Elite should be somewhere for Elite specification builds to sink teeth into. Dareau's point was about building the best lemon.
Funny, how every top dps listed ship I usually see, has the same listed money toys required to...well be the top.
So to break a certain dps barrier, it is in fact a requirement by the dps elite, even if they don't actually say it with words.
The comment was made accordingly, I read just fine, maybe you can do the same huh?
Because in their own words, they never mentioned breaking that 15k mark, let alone getting to 20k using the same gear/build!
Yes, that is because it is a top DPS build - of course it will require the best stuff. That "certain dps barrier" is about 40k DPS. In any case, more than twice what you say it is.
A 15-20k build? Even a Galaxy Retrofit could do better, never mind anything vaguely suitable for some sort of damage.
I frakking hate the timer between posts they made worse.
Normal Queues only need 3-4k DPS to do. I could do that on a T1 ship, players like the OP could (and in fact have) done it in shuttles.
The original point was about the minimum for Elite - and Elite should be somewhere for Elite specification builds to sink teeth into. Dareau's point was about building the best lemon.
Well, seeing how so many people like to down the Gal-x, there is your lemon, now build me a 30k-50k monster out of it plz!
I think you mean the gal-r not x, the x is kind of respectable actually.
I believe sarcasmdetector built a 20k gal-r pre-dr, so maybe 30k is not too far fetched. You may want to change your range to 50k-70k to make your point.
Comments
And? Did it hurt your ego, or did you just laugh about the stupid remarks? I for example feel never offended by someone who does not know me.
Life's achievements != game's achievements
On a less serious note, DPS != Skill nor does better gear. As it stands more DPS is indicative of either lots of time sunk into the game or lots of money.
Sure you can make a fantastically thought out built, but it doesn't really count for anything compared to someone with an okay build who has top tier gear.
We're talking about extremely TRIBBLE progression now.
As many have said, this game had an appeal to the less hardcore because they could achieve something within a reasonable amount of time. Due to the now stunted growth, it's less appealing for a vast majority of players.
Slowing progression is fine, but don't slow it to the point where it feels like the end is never in sight.
If it makes you feel better. I like having a sci with GW in a team when I do massive DPS. Also I like when they subnuke on time the Borg Queen in HSE etc. So to all my advise: please stop being annoyed with people who show noob behavior or symply enjoy being offensive.
This is the big problem with Advanced.
You have to expect noob players in Advanced, those players have no choice.
They put out 'normal' mode for these players, but they cannot play that mode, it's useless to them. They need processors that they can't get in Normal Mode so new and under geared players have to play Advanced. They have no choice, there is no other way to progress.
Problem is, the way Advanced ques are now, if you get new or undergeared players in your group, you fail. It's not their fault, they have no choice but to try and compete in ques they can't handle. Crypitc is not leaving them options.
The end result is that new players get frustrated and quit because they have no way to compete, they're a constant anchor and they have no way around it.
Veteran players also quit because they're tired of failing over and over because you can't carry a low DPS party because everything takes hours to kill.
Cryptic has done a first class job of making the Que system universally unappealing to everyone. It's absolutely pathetic. Had they just left the ques as they were and simply added Elite Mode it would have satisfied everyone, everyone would have a place.
Instead they have created a DPS race that everyone loses.
GW is useful. That's why I usually take it even when I fly escorts, cruiser or carriers. I hope Fleet Eclipse gets that LtC science station.
There will always be a******s in the game. I once had a guy pm me to berate me on my use of faw, and how I was inferior. Another idiot was role playing as a racist (human league or some non-sense), and decided to berate the fact I was a Klingon and died because as usual I get all the aggro because of dps (tanking is so dead in this game). One idiot with no understanding of game mechanics does not reflect everyone that is trying to do more damage.
A dedicated sci control/healer should be an option, but if you dedicate too many boff powers to healing/control now and try isa in a pug you will fail. Cryptic did a good job railroading folks into the dps race with their floating bags of hp. It's not harder it just takes longer. I do hope they fix it. Until then I am segregating myself and doing advanced only with dps channel folks. Tired of failure, because cryptic didn't think their strategy through.
Said challenge exists for one reason, and one reason only. I am not advanced, nor arrogant, enough to dictate build-terms to the elite, min-maxxers, and PvPers - aka I want to run an X ship with Y weapons and you will cave to me. However, I am arrogant enough to request / demand that the bar for entry be built around a "low common denominator". 3/3 DSSV with 2 tactical BOff slots is low enough for me since it has the least amount of what DPS kings value, and results in a situation that nobody should be "L2Ped" out of an elite because of their ship itself, as long as it's T5U11 or better (endgame level) - since outside of an engie or sci CMDR BOffed Recluse, every other T5U11 hits this 2 Tac BOff slot and most likely 3 tac console bar. Using the suckiest weapon in the game means that someone who picks that one weapon for thematic use or it's proc (I remember being told that some of the easiest queen diamond kills in early ItHS came when me and my fleetie ran tetryon weapons and managed to proc often enough to keep the queen's shields redline thin the entire battle) won't be laughed out of a battle because of beam color. I am also arrogant enough to force these people to meet the "letter" of the advertising - Max gear and solid build - and I'm arrogant enough to define "solid skill build" as something that does not count 6s or 9s in every weapon affecting tactical skill, partially because if you're flying a science-engineering ship, your skills should be science and engineering focused, not tactical focus to everything. Forcing a "canon" build with mandatory energy and projectile mixes both fore and aft again sets a reasonable bar, fits the example of every starter build on every starship in game and allows but does not mandate all energy builds or all projectile builds.
Build the "best lemon" you can, balance for that lemon, and suddenly the intent of the Elite level is met without excluding the majority of the playerbase. Yes, there will still be that troll who insists that their "not quite best lemon but the most they want to put into the build" ship should be elite, hence majority instead of everyone. L2P commentary will be directed to people who don't actually know the game (play by the deciphered strategy that is necessary to let the 5x lemons beat the level) instead of as a discriminatory comment based solely off of weapons color or hull choice.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
ISA is bad but, KSA is even worse as, 9 out of every 10 runs it seems for me in pugs, I get stuck with people who don't want to take care of the probes or, fail to realize they need be stopped from reaching the gate or, maybe don't care to stop them (as in trolling the group), I don't know!
Either way, it spells auto-fail.
I can tell you, that 8-10k dps (CC included) can barely prevent the probes (all 8 of them) from reaching the gate, when being stuck having to kill them all by yourself, whilst the other's seemingly are oblivious of them even existing.
The freaking things have some 10X the hp they used to, that's just plain TRIBBLE! (10X might be slightly incorrect but, close enough)
And CSA, wow that on goes to hell quicker than the devil himself!
I get there is some strategy involved in these mission but, even when all 5 player's are on their A game as far as what needs to be done, advanced queues still force them to have to meet a dps minimum, that is roughly 5X greater, than prior to DR!
And that, is what tends to kill the fun and enjoyment for, a multitude of people who don't feel the need or, want to be forced into narrowing their build variety, just because it doesn't put out tons of dps.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
You are so very very right.
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Very well said.
I agree 100%
EliteSTF
STFRaiders
RealEliteSTF
TheHIVE
That is just a partial list of STF channels I can pull from memory that have come and gone over the years ... , and they had one thing in common -- all that was required is for you to be able to finish an STF .
Most if not all were also open to show a newbie the ropes , if one member vouched for them .
NONE had any other artificial requirements like DPS .
YEEEEAH ... , that's like STORyan claiming "gear is not a big deal ..." -- while simultaneously they promote builds that house Lobi consoles & Doffs that cost millions or even hundreds of millions on top of many a lockbox / zen ship .
So those builds are clearly from the poorhouse ... , because "gear doesn't really play a big role in this game" .
Still not interested ... , so don't parse me bro.
I have done plenty of 10k or near 10k builds on a shoe string budget. If you want to hit the max dps that someone like sarcasmdetector does yeah, you need expensive gear. General 10k dps? Rare mk Xi gear and a t5 ship is all you need. I think I have an alt with no doffs that hit 10k. 10k is not elitist or a high bar, all it requires is basic understanding of game mechanics, which as I said before cryptic does a terrible job of explaining in game.
I do respectable DPS and i've lost count since the STF's were broken up into space and ground where in KASE i've had to knock down all the cubes that get spawned as 3 pugs on 1 cube can't destroy it. Or CSE having to rescue the optional as 2 guys cannot defend against 4 BOP's or 4 guys cannot if i'm on Kang duty handle 1 station and are blowing up right,left and centre when they spawn the Negh'var and Raptor guard.
It is a pleasure playing STF's and game content with the guys from these channels as every match is a breeze and successful.
i don't have to carry 2-3 people through STF's as their firepower or crowd control/disable/debuff abilities aren't even tickling the NPC.
So you guys who are turning you're nose up at the DPS crowd thats you're choice and you're mistake to make.
I personally don't want to go playing Advanced and Elite content with someone in a Galaxy-R or a Intrepid who can't break 2000k DPS, because that means more work for me, a longer mission, and a fail doing these missions and a increased difficulty due to a poor ship build by the player.
This makes for a bad game experience for me
(I singled out the Galaxy-r and Intrepid not because i dislike these ships, but because for Higher difficulty levels their single lt tact station makes them very poor ships choices to use due to low dps potential)
Like it or not Cryptic with the increased Hitpoint and Shield wall they introduced to NPC's for DR does mean the player having to make their ship punch harder than post DR.
And remember the success of every space mission in the PvE queues relies on 2 things BEATING THE TIMER, MEANING BLOWING TARGETS UP. thats what DPS is for and the more you have the easier the game becomes
People keep saying this, but it's rather disingenuous. BNPs are only necessary for the Omega ground gear and the Omega space sets. APCs are only necessary for the Delta gear. There's plenty of other end-game sets that don't require either in the other reputation systems, and no other components require doing Advanced queues.
You can easily gear up elsewhere before working on getting BNPs. For example, the CC Deflector (trivial to attain IIs) and Rom Engines (no extra things required) are the general BiS, and the Nukara alternative don't need any components either. Nor does the KCB and Assimiliated console, or (obviously) the Zero-Point.
Queues are not necessary for IIs or VCIs, and are actually the worst possible way to get them in terms of effort:reward. In that vein, I'll say again that they should make BNPs rewards on Deferi, and APCs rewards on Kobali.
This makes sense. If they're going to balance Advanced around mandatory group DPS, that number should be based on the best possible DPS from the worst possible end game ship.
Artificial requirement? Its a real requirement, not artificial....
Oh and those channels you listed, they had a requirement as well, guess by your definition of artificial those had artificial requirements as well, since they had requirements....As for your poorhouse comment, anyone who spends time can get any lockbox ship ever released in this game....after all they are all on the exchange, and even those ships that have been held to make scarce can be gotten by using the exchange, though some sellers might want keys in large amounts, but those keys can be gotten from the exchange....poorhouse to me means someone who cannot bother to farm what needs to be farmed to get decent gear.
If its just a matter of time, then its not they are in the poorhouse, its that they are still beginning the game. Now some who wont apply themselves to being better in the game, will stay "in the poorhouse" because they are just too lazy, IMO, to make a better situation. Before you come back saying you dont have the time to invest...well guess what, thats not my problem, I dont care, because the fact of the matter is you do have the time, it just make take you longer to get there. Guess what, taking longer at something is just that, taking longer. Its like having money, you might not have as much as I do or you might have more, but the fact is that taking more time is the only way you are going to get more of it, because it takes time to make it by doing something that will earn it.
Oh and dont worry about parsing, with you being in the poorhouse, and not interested, you should not be in the group, after all, being poor and all you cannot afford to outfit a ship to do the content, you will need to be on the forums complaining about its too hard to play, and it needs to be easier, because you dont hae time to get out of the poorhouse, and being on the forums complaining, and grind rep, and grinding xp, etc....
I am not sure what is in this game that cannot be acquired by anyone through game play with no real world money being spent, other than a very few select limited time only items from before the game launched....but then I dont stress over things like that....dil converts to zen, zen buys zen store items, ec can purchase keys, and ec can be farmed by the million+ per hour, lobies are given away every so often, so please tell me how people cannot acquire whatever they desire given enough time????
I rolled a new toon using a T5U Armitage no rep/lobi/fleet consoles/Rep traits or expensive doffs and still could break 15k dps using mk xi gear.
Or, just reward VR material packs and one rep item from a normal queue, a multiple of Normal from Advanced, and a multiple of Advanced from Elite.
Solves every issue then.
Absolutely. I would suggest the Kazon Raider as benchmark T5U, as if anyone deserves to be restricted from Advanced and Elite content based on ship and build it is them.
They are if, you want to break that 15k barrier and, the 20k barrier.
15k is, Cryptic's idea of majority player dps range it seems, boy are they wrong huh?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Unfortunately, there is a reason I only go into non-normal queues of any type with my fleet (with the exception pre DR of Undine Infiltration Elite--ground, which goes to my point) and it's embodied in some of the posts in this thread. Now, we DO have some high-DPS people in our fleet but the difference is that I don't get a side order of attitude with it when I am in the mood to go play with them. There's an understanding of different play styles and how we can work together to get the job done.
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As usual, you fail to read what you quoted - the person was doing 15k on Mk XI gear, with none of what you say is a must have in order to break 15-20k.
15k DPS is an amount every T5 in STO can do. Even the Kazon ship could do it. (but not the Kazon themselves, they couldn't even spell DPS let alone actually do some)
Who exactly cares what you believe or not? Why should anyone proof anything to you? Who are you? You write like you think you are the boss, ha ha ha.
If anything should be the benchmark, it should probably be a tier4 bop, considering many people may be stuck using a tier4 freebie/MU ship to progress to tier5u or, tier6!
Otherwise, your suggestion isn't a bad idea.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Funny, how every top dps listed ship I usually see, has the same listed money toys required to...well be the top.
So to break a certain dps barrier, it is in fact a requirement by the dps elite, even if they don't actually say it with words.
The comment was made accordingly, I read just fine, maybe you can do the same huh?
Because in their own words, they never mentioned breaking that 15k mark, let alone getting to 20k using the same gear/build!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Normal Queues only need 3-4k DPS to do. I could do that on a T1 ship, players like the OP could (and in fact have) done it in shuttles.
The original point was about the minimum for Elite - and Elite should be somewhere for Elite specification builds to sink teeth into. Dareau's point was about building the best lemon.
Yes, that is because it is a top DPS build - of course it will require the best stuff. That "certain dps barrier" is about 40k DPS. In any case, more than twice what you say it is.
A 15-20k build? Even a Galaxy Retrofit could do better, never mind anything vaguely suitable for some sort of damage.
I frakking hate the timer between posts they made worse.
Well, seeing how so many people like to down the Gal-x, there is your lemon, now build me a 30k-50k monster out of it plz!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I believe sarcasmdetector built a 20k gal-r pre-dr, so maybe 30k is not too far fetched. You may want to change your range to 50k-70k to make your point.