Just for some clarification for those who are asking about the XP changes when it comes to XP earned when fighting Elite NPCs.
The patchnotes for Holodeck mentions the values were incorrect and this refers to the values that changed with the Delta Rising launch itself. To break it down:
Prior to the release of Delta Rising: Players earned 1.75 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs.
With the launch of Delta Rising: Players earned 5 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs.
This was the incorrect value the release notes mention and is the reason for the change made on 10/23.
With the update to Holodeck on 10/23: Players now earn 2 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs.
Currently, Tribble will have the incorrect value of 5 times the XP value for Elite NPCs when compared to Normal NPCs which will be updated on the next path to Tribble.
I guess no signs of being fixed to what was before :mad:
And as far as the Dev team being "incompetent, lazy programmers at that studio, or worst yet, programmers who can't do math", perhaps they might benefit from you dropping by their studio to show them how to do everything perfectly 100% of the time?
Mistakes happen.
Perhaps they would benefit from my expertise, but that being said, if something like this ever happened, let's say in a game like GuildWars2, there would be an immediate fix within 24hrs. This is definitely a game breaking issue at the present moment.
Cryptic appears to be indifferent, and only focusing on the weekend Dilithium event, where the server should be shut down momentarily to provide a fix for such a game breaking issue. Their silence on the entire issue is equally worst, they should at least inform the player base of the exact issue and when at least an immediate fix will occur.
Mistake do happen, I understand that, but that's where quality control comes in, which have been absent from this game for awhile now. So now we have to speculate that a hot fix may be under way, but probably slated for next week on Thursday.
From Tribble thread on latest patch on test server...
"Many of the XP changes that were put on to Holodeck yesterday are not reflected in the current Tribble build but they will match when Tribble is updated next." - coldsnapped, Cryptic Studios Team
So that would imply that the xp adjustments is not a bug but intended to fix an error in the xp table that was missed when the expan went live.
normal xp got a boost... advance and elite xp was not inline with the values cryptic wants and is now working as intended.
So... what they're saying is changes were done on Holodeck before they were even done on Tribble.
Can someone tell me why Tribble exists to begin with? Because when I say "Holodeck is the Test Server," I meant that as a joke
From Tribble thread on latest patch on test server...
"Many of the XP changes that were put on to Holodeck yesterday are not reflected in the current Tribble build but they will match when Tribble is updated next." - coldsnapped, Cryptic Studios Team
So that would imply that the xp adjustments is not a bug but intended to fix an error in the xp table that was missed when the expan went live.
normal xp got a boost... advance and elite xp was not inline with the values cryptic wants and is now working as intended.
Please say that is not true! Please!
It doesnt even make sense, the amount of Health a single ship has on Elite is 6+ times bigger then on normal BUT the xp you get from this same ship in normal is only doubled in Elite.
Argala first enemy i saw:
Elite: 737k HP yields 374xp
Adv: 214k HP yields 234xp
Nor: 126k hp yields 184xp
Now compare and even blind devs should notice that Elite is not AT ALL worth it time to xp ratio wise.
Even advanced is not worth it... normal difficulty is the best time/xp ratio you can get.
This dear devs has nothing to do with an adjustment.. this is madness!
Just go the whole way and remove any other difficulty.
If at least the hp/shield to xp yield of every difficulty would be the same, then we would still face harder hitting enemies in adv and elite.. but we are far far far away from an equal ratio.
Actually because of the harder hitting thing adv and elite should get a little boost over normal.
I also noticed is that since this patch i had not a single good drop.. before i could get a good drop per 30 minutes or 1 hour, now nothing.
Lucky you PWE that you got my DR money already.. better get your heads straight if you want more of it.
It doesnt even make sense, the amount of Health a single ship has on Elite is 6+ times bigger then on normal BUT the xp you get from this same ship in normal is only doubled in Elite.
Argala first enemy i saw:
Elite: 737k HP yields 374xp
Adv: 214k HP yields 234xp
Nor: 126k hp yields 184xp
Now compare and even blind devs should notice that Elite is not AT ALL worth it time to xp ratio wise.
Even advanced is not worth it... normal difficulty is the best time/xp ratio you can get.
This dear devs has nothing to do with an adjustment.. this is madness!
Just go the whole way and remove any other difficulty.
If at least the hp/shield to xp yield of every difficulty would be the same, then we would still face harder hitting enemies in adv and elite.. but we are far far far away from an equal ratio.
Actually because of the harder hitting thing adv and elite should get a little boost over normal.
I also noticed is that since this patch i had not a single good drop.. before i could get a good drop per 30 minutes or 1 hour, now nothing.
Lucky you PWE that you got my DR money already.. better get your heads straight if you want more of it.
Hey I know it makes no sense...
Normal HP to Elite HP is almost 6 times greater... yet XP reward is only 2 times...
I was getting around 1400 XP per Elite NPC in Argala prior to the patch on the 23rd. Now I'm getting around 500 XP per Elite NPC.
According to the Tribble patch notes today, the 1400 XP was supposedly 5 times the amount I should have been getting, so the XP for an Elite NPC should be about 280 XP?? That seems lower to me than it is on Normal.
They've essentially destroyed any reason to play on Elite setting. The time involved with defeating anything on Elite simply isn't worth the effort.
Now that we have more information, I'm going to agree with those calling shenaningans on this.
"Silly," is an understatement, it would be hilarious & comical if it weren't for the fact that it's basically game breaking. A poster here said, "Why do we even have Tribble to begin with?"
Heck, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they hired a new employee and it was his or her first day on the job. :P
I was getting around 1400 XP per Elite NPC in Argala prior to the patch on the 23rd. Now I'm getting around 500 XP per Elite NPC.
According to the Tribble patch notes today, the 1400 XP was supposedly 5 times the amount I should have been getting, so the XP for an Elite NPC should be about 280 XP?? That seems lower to me than it is on Normal.
They've essentially destroyed any reason to play on Elite setting. The time involved with defeating anything on Elite simply isn't worth the effort.
Now that we have more information, I'm going to agree with those calling shenaningans on this.
I agree that something doesn't add up here.
Doing a system patrol in the Liuen System in Beta Usera as a test. The first ship I come across is a Vor'cha class cruiser.
On Normal
The Hit Points are around 121,000 and gives you 286 XP upon defeat.
On Elite
The Hit Points are around 820,000 and gives you 569 XP upon defeat.
So running Elite mode makes the enemy Hit Points about 6 TIMES the normal for only 2x the XP (actually just shy of 2x).
Matt Miracle
Fleet Commander in Chief [Rank 7] for Covenant of Honor; a FED T5 Starbase
House Leader [Rank 7] for Honorable House of Mor'gue; a KDF T3 Starbase Find us at CovenantofHonor.com. My Twitter handle; @jmattmiracle
However Cryptic spins this and whatever math we come up with doesn't really matter. At the end of the day ask yourself one question, is leveling from 50 to 60 fun? Not for me. It's a boring slog where you are forced to just grind mobs like we are back in EQ from 10 years ago. Even if I find the few missions enjoyable that enjoyment is quickly thwarted by one of the worst grinds I have seen in MMO in over a decade. It's not fun, it is just awful, painfully awful.
Guess what? Elite is the only way to get rare rep drops and the NORMAL amount of dil you should get anyway.
you did realise we are not talking about stfs here? stfs are still worth to play elite, because of the rewards besides the skill points. the drops are the only reson for elite stfs.
IF I can get on after work I will try Tribble access again, but I have some family obligations and probably will not make it before end of business PDT. If anyone can get on and get these numbers sooner, that will be awesome. Otherwise I will see if I can do anything tonight.
It is my understanding that they have now said the 10/23 patch notes were wrong. Going from memory so it may be fuzzy, but the actual numbers are supposed to be Elite is worth 2x XP than Normal mobs. Which is unfortunate since it takes 5 times longer to down an elite mob over a Normal mob.
The whole 1.75 thing should have read, prior to DR, Elite mobs were worth 1.75x XP than Normal mobs and has now been raised to 2x.
It is my understanding that they have now said the 10/23 patch notes were wrong. Going from memory so it may be fuzzy, but the actual numbers are supposed to be Elite is worth 2x XP than Normal mobs. Which is unfortunate since it takes 5 times longer to down an elite mob over a Normal mob.
The whole 1.75 thing should have read, prior to DR, Elite mobs were worth 1.75x XP than Normal mobs and has now been raised to 2x.
Yes but I wonder how much harder was a mob on elite patrols prior to DR?
Seems like when they made the mobs 6 times harder they also choose to jack up the xp to 5 times... guess they didnt like the result and so nerf'd it back down to 2... more than pre-DR but way less than needed due to the mobs being jacked up 6 times from normal.
The boredom of levelling 50-60 and change in difficulty has put me off playing.
Agreed, I spent the past week leveling my main toon. Pretty much there were only 2 things that impressed me with DR. I liked that the Hazari acted like they did on Voyager and that I can finally roll my ship after 3yrs of Cryptic/PWE saying it wasn't doable. But that roll animation... WTF is this Pole Position in Space? People can have opinions either way, but look at how many instances there are in different zones... The numbers speak for themselves. I remember 2yrs ago I almost never passed the same ship twice, now I see the same names everywhere all the time. And these idiotic changes to npc hull and shields... We need smarter AI, not insane hp sponges. I want a challenge, like we had in season 5. Only 2 things keep me logging in... The friendships I've made and my love of Trek, and they about ruined the later with this antithetical storyline.
Delirium Tremens
XO of Training
Tier 5 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy, Tier 3 Dilithium Mine, Tier 3 Spire
Join us at www.dtfleet.com
On this matter, regardless of taken spec points, XP gain needs to be reverted to pre-nerf levels. A Vaadwaur boss on Elite is pretty tough, well-deserving of the ca. 1,200 xp you got for one! And when they revert the XP gain, maybe they could start to admit that taking spec points was misguided too.
Yeah, the one thing i got from the TD grind was a feeling of progression, the XP was a bit fast, but that could be toned down easy enough. Now however snails can cross the Antarctic faster than the movement of the XP slider at the top.
The other major issue is one of Time vs Reward. Currently it's time spent = no real rewards. Dil grinding is faster and easier with DOFF's.
Leveling is pointless now the sponges are still around, as is the storyline which is so broken unless you start it at lvl 60 that it literally becomes a meaningless abstract in the background to the Patrolling, the constant patrolling. The never ending patrolling. You could lose a few STF's along the way too, but you're meant to be patrolling, unless you did it in Tau Dewa and had some fun, in that case you need to be labelled a cheater/exploiter and hit till you leave with the nerf bat.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
In reality I suspect that there is an element of game play being challenging yet enjoyable.
This challenge I believe has made Level 50 onwards too much of a 'slog' in which many do not enjoy which defeats the mindset of core gaming. As a perious poster mentioned gaming should be escapism from the day to day slogs.
I think most starship captains/vice admirals have proven themselves as relevant experienced leaders of a starship by level 50 so have little more to prove!
It is also plausible for the community to be disapointed in a select few who manipulated it for nothing more then claming mythical postions on a bandstand that is nothing bar a fictious mental and lonely fantasy.
We are here to game and have fun! lets not forget that!
Yeah, the one thing i got from the TD grind was a feeling of progression, the XP was a bit fast, but that could be toned down easy enough. Now however snails can cross the Antarctic faster than the movement of the XP slider at the top.
The other major issue is one of Time vs Reward. Currently it's time spent = no real rewards. Dil grinding is faster and easier with DOFF's.
Leveling is pointless now the sponges are still around, as is the storyline which is so broken unless you start it at lvl 60 that it literally becomes a meaningless abstract in the background to the Patrolling, the constant patrolling. The never ending patrolling. You could lose a few STF's along the way too, but you're meant to be patrolling, unless you did it in Tau Dewa and had some fun, in that case you need to be labelled a cheater/exploiter and hit till you leave with the nerf bat.
That is also because specialization xp is not the xp you see poping up when you kill a ship.
If a ship kills shows you 100xp earned then your specialization bar gets 70xp.
Comments
I guess no signs of being fixed to what was before :mad:
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Perhaps they would benefit from my expertise, but that being said, if something like this ever happened, let's say in a game like GuildWars2, there would be an immediate fix within 24hrs. This is definitely a game breaking issue at the present moment.
Cryptic appears to be indifferent, and only focusing on the weekend Dilithium event, where the server should be shut down momentarily to provide a fix for such a game breaking issue. Their silence on the entire issue is equally worst, they should at least inform the player base of the exact issue and when at least an immediate fix will occur.
Mistake do happen, I understand that, but that's where quality control comes in, which have been absent from this game for awhile now. So now we have to speculate that a hot fix may be under way, but probably slated for next week on Thursday.
So... what they're saying is changes were done on Holodeck before they were even done on Tribble.
Can someone tell me why Tribble exists to begin with? Because when I say "Holodeck is the Test Server," I meant that as a joke
Please say that is not true! Please!
It doesnt even make sense, the amount of Health a single ship has on Elite is 6+ times bigger then on normal BUT the xp you get from this same ship in normal is only doubled in Elite.
Argala first enemy i saw:
Elite: 737k HP yields 374xp
Adv: 214k HP yields 234xp
Nor: 126k hp yields 184xp
Now compare and even blind devs should notice that Elite is not AT ALL worth it time to xp ratio wise.
Even advanced is not worth it... normal difficulty is the best time/xp ratio you can get.
This dear devs has nothing to do with an adjustment.. this is madness!
Just go the whole way and remove any other difficulty.
If at least the hp/shield to xp yield of every difficulty would be the same, then we would still face harder hitting enemies in adv and elite.. but we are far far far away from an equal ratio.
Actually because of the harder hitting thing adv and elite should get a little boost over normal.
I also noticed is that since this patch i had not a single good drop.. before i could get a good drop per 30 minutes or 1 hour, now nothing.
Lucky you PWE that you got my DR money already.. better get your heads straight if you want more of it.
Hey I know it makes no sense...
Normal HP to Elite HP is almost 6 times greater... yet XP reward is only 2 times...
Read post #151 and have a nice day
"Silly," is an understatement, it would be hilarious & comical if it weren't for the fact that it's basically game breaking. A poster here said, "Why do we even have Tribble to begin with?"
Heck, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they hired a new employee and it was his or her first day on the job. :P
I agree that something doesn't add up here.
Doing a system patrol in the Liuen System in Beta Usera as a test. The first ship I come across is a Vor'cha class cruiser.
On Normal
The Hit Points are around 121,000 and gives you 286 XP upon defeat.
On Elite
The Hit Points are around 820,000 and gives you 569 XP upon defeat.
So running Elite mode makes the enemy Hit Points about 6 TIMES the normal for only 2x the XP (actually just shy of 2x).
Find us at CovenantofHonor.com. My Twitter handle; @jmattmiracle
yes you are right. your test is correct. that how it is intended now.
so its not worth anymore to play elite.
you did realise we are not talking about stfs here? stfs are still worth to play elite, because of the rewards besides the skill points. the drops are the only reson for elite stfs.
It is my understanding that they have now said the 10/23 patch notes were wrong. Going from memory so it may be fuzzy, but the actual numbers are supposed to be Elite is worth 2x XP than Normal mobs. Which is unfortunate since it takes 5 times longer to down an elite mob over a Normal mob.
The whole 1.75 thing should have read, prior to DR, Elite mobs were worth 1.75x XP than Normal mobs and has now been raised to 2x.
Yes but I wonder how much harder was a mob on elite patrols prior to DR?
Seems like when they made the mobs 6 times harder they also choose to jack up the xp to 5 times... guess they didnt like the result and so nerf'd it back down to 2... more than pre-DR but way less than needed due to the mobs being jacked up 6 times from normal.
ADM Board, Whitehall, London - United Federation of Planets
http://www.srs-fleet.net/
Agreed, I spent the past week leveling my main toon. Pretty much there were only 2 things that impressed me with DR. I liked that the Hazari acted like they did on Voyager and that I can finally roll my ship after 3yrs of Cryptic/PWE saying it wasn't doable. But that roll animation... WTF is this Pole Position in Space? People can have opinions either way, but look at how many instances there are in different zones... The numbers speak for themselves. I remember 2yrs ago I almost never passed the same ship twice, now I see the same names everywhere all the time. And these idiotic changes to npc hull and shields... We need smarter AI, not insane hp sponges. I want a challenge, like we had in season 5. Only 2 things keep me logging in... The friendships I've made and my love of Trek, and they about ruined the later with this antithetical storyline.
XO of Training
Tier 5 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy, Tier 3 Dilithium Mine, Tier 3 Spire
Join us at www.dtfleet.com
The other major issue is one of Time vs Reward. Currently it's time spent = no real rewards. Dil grinding is faster and easier with DOFF's.
Leveling is pointless now the sponges are still around, as is the storyline which is so broken unless you start it at lvl 60 that it literally becomes a meaningless abstract in the background to the Patrolling, the constant patrolling. The never ending patrolling. You could lose a few STF's along the way too, but you're meant to be patrolling, unless you did it in Tau Dewa and had some fun, in that case you need to be labelled a cheater/exploiter and hit till you leave with the nerf bat.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
This challenge I believe has made Level 50 onwards too much of a 'slog' in which many do not enjoy which defeats the mindset of core gaming. As a perious poster mentioned gaming should be escapism from the day to day slogs.
I think most starship captains/vice admirals have proven themselves as relevant experienced leaders of a starship by level 50 so have little more to prove!
It is also plausible for the community to be disapointed in a select few who manipulated it for nothing more then claming mythical postions on a bandstand that is nothing bar a fictious mental and lonely fantasy.
We are here to game and have fun! lets not forget that!
ADM Board, Whitehall, London - United Federation of Planets
http://www.srs-fleet.net/
That is also because specialization xp is not the xp you see poping up when you kill a ship.
If a ship kills shows you 100xp earned then your specialization bar gets 70xp.