I saw a comment on Reddit that, I think, explains these new ship designs quite nicely:
"They're not Starfleet ships; they're Section 31 ships."
These ships have all been designed with the intelligence systems at the forefront. To me, that seems like Section 31's aesthetic. Being sent to the other end of known space in a ship with a bunch of super-advanced surveillance and combat systems, and a cloaking device in defiance of Starfleet's "we're the good guys and we don't need to sneak around" attitude? I bet a shiny nickel that Franklin Drake or one of his boys in black is going to figure prominently in the whole push into the Delta Quadrant.
It makes sense, too. The Iconian gateway on New Romulus led us to find the Solanae Dyson sphere, discover a portion of the Iconians' plans, come into conflict with the Voth, discover more of the Iconians' plans, come into very direct conflict with the Undine, get told off by an angry Iconian, and find ourselves with a pretty short path to the heart of our oldest collective enemy (the Borg). So why wouldn't Drake be pushing for Starfleet to put the Borg down for good? The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans don't lack for major existential threats and the Borg cannot be reasoned with the same way the Voth or the Undine can.
"Negotiation is pointless, so we have to destroy them. There is no other way." Something like that could very well sway some top brass into launching this unprecedented expedition.
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show. I should really just relax."
The Romulans and KDF all have great designs. I already have a Fed-Rom, so, I can take advantage of those. My KDF characters are not endgame-level yet, but those two ships make me interested to pushed them the rest of the way.
Federation ships appears to be more controversial, but I like them too:
The Phantom Escort feels like its strongly inspired from the Defiant, albeit larger akin to the greater girth the patrol escort have. It also seems to draw from the Akira-lineage with the raised protuberances that help hide the bridge from the sides.
The Scryer makes the fanboy in me giddy - it's a reuse of Perpetual assets (Finally!). I think it looks like a nice science ship (heck, it looks really science oriented) though it doesn't have an appeal that makes me go "OMG I want to command it!"
I love how the Eclipse cruiser looks, personally. To me, it harkens back to the four-nacelled heavy cruiser line as a possible Stargazer-class successor, and also reminds me of the Jupiter-class dreadnought. I like how it looks and have no problem seeing its place as a future starfleet ship.Heck, it has no visible bridge, meaning it much be deeper inside the hull - my fleetmate Yuzral would approve.
The Guardian Cruiser brings in a bit of Galaxy-class, a bit of Ambassador-class, and saucer proportions remind me of the Voyager's primary hull... though the whole composition actually seems strongly inspired from the Perpetual Excalibur-class too. Style-wise, it seems to draw a lot of cues from it (as in, Sovereignized-Galaxy-class with rather horizontally-leaning nacelle pylons).
I like what I see and I've already bought my Operations pack. Delta Rising shows signs of having great production value, and I'm more than happy to show that we're an audience that will make it worth the effort.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Maybe if I understood the design lineage, and the reasoning for the appearance, I might be able to at least accept them. But they look NOTHING like any previous ship, and so they don't have the usual hallmarks of ship design evolution.
In a way, it's the same way I felt about the Vengeance in ST:ID. At least the Enterprise looks like an evolution of the Connie we all know and love, but when the Vengeance shows up on screen, you kinda go "What in the blue h-e-double hockey sticks is that thing" because it doesn't look like a natural design evolution of ANYTHING.
I just can't believe that Cryptic told their artists "Come up with a new Starfleet ship" and this end result was supposed to be a "Starfleet" ship. It just doesn't make any sense at all.
So...your logic is that something is ugly just because it doesn't look similar to something before it?
So...your logic is that something is ugly just because it doesn't look similar to something before it?
It's the logic of canon and design.
In terms of canon, when an intellectual property has significant hallmarks that identify the intellectual property, any advancement in the IP general has a lineage to it that maintains the connection to what came before it. IE: Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy
In terms of design (having an engineering background myself) generally design isn't completely and totally different for something of a common purpose. For example, let's say you design a pre-stressed box girder bridge. It has a particular look. Now 100 years later, another engineer replaces your bridge. His specifications are to replace in kind, IE with a pre-stressed box girder bridge, but his end result is actually a cable suspension bridge. It would be incorrect to call that replacement bridge a pre-stressed box girder, when the design of it clearly is a cable suspension.
Therefore design lineage doesn't generally go Constitution -> Excelsior -> Flying Ice Scraper.
It simply doesn't fit.
And to me, that is ugly. Its one thing to give a new, modernized and updated appearance. But completely changing the design lineage doesn't make it the same.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
In terms of canon, when an intellectual property has significant hallmarks that identify the intellectual property, any advancement in the IP general has a lineage to it that maintains the connection to what came before it. IE: Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy
In terms of design (having an engineering background myself) generally design isn't completely and totally different for something of a common purpose. For example, let's say you design a pre-stressed box girder bridge. It has a particular look. Now 100 years later, another engineer replaces your bridge. His specifications are to replace in kind, IE with a pre-stressed box girder bridge, but his end result is actually a cable suspension bridge. It would be incorrect to call that replacement bridge a pre-stressed box girder, when the design of it clearly is a cable suspension.
Therefore design lineage doesn't generally go Constitution -> Excelsior -> Flying Ice Scraper.
It simply doesn't fit.
And to me, that is ugly. Its one thing to give a new, modernized and updated appearance. But completely changing the design lineage doesn't make it the same.
You are looking at the wrong lineage.
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
Just be glad They didn't decide to use the "Pooping Pooch" design. (Excaliber)
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
John Eaves' designs. Cryptic should hire him to do more ships. He officially worked on Star Trek afterall.
I never knew he did all the sketches for the ships on Archers wall in the NX-01.
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I am not caring what the kdf or rom ships look like because I think the current ones are ugly anyway, so I was planning on getting a tier 6 ship on my rom and kdf chars regardless of what they look like. But my fed is completely different she has the Fleet long range sci vessel retrofit, basically voyager. I absolutely love this ship and I have customized it to make it pink. I was under the impression that a new voyager like ship was suppose to come out at delta rising. I am disappointed that this doesn't seem to be the case. So I wont be getting a tier 6 ship on my fed unless they come out with another intrepid class that I can make pink. These ships look to be basically uncustomizable in regards to colors. Which is just lame.
Helping people is my passion in life. If I see someone without a smile I try to give them mine.
I saw a comment on Reddit that, I think, explains these new ship designs quite nicely:
"They're not Starfleet ships; they're Section 31 ships."
If Cryptic tags them that way I could buy that reason for their non-Fed look. S31 are sneaky TRIBBLE and also 'allows' the fact that they all cloak. But if they say they are new basic/standard Starfleet designs, then no.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Well... I just lost most of my excitement for DR. The Guardian looks like it has potential, but the other three ships look very off putting to me. I really wanted to like them, just can't bring myself to. I can't fathom the design progression at all.
I can see your point, but the scale between the two is quite different.
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
If Cryptic tags them that way I could buy that reason for their non-Fed look. S31 are sneaky TRIBBLE and also 'allows' the fact that they all cloak. But if they say they are new basic/standard Starfleet designs, then no.
Yeah, there's too little similarity to previous designs, especially the Odyssey, for these to be the new standard in Starfleet. At best, you have broad outline similarities (that escort is kinda the same shape as a Defiant, etc.), but no real evolution of detail. That Guardian-class looks like a Starfleet ship, since it's so similar to the Andrew Probert design for the Ambassador-class, but that's it.
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show. I should really just relax."
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
Well, if the new cruiser is from the 4 nacelle line of cruisers then that probably means Cryptic will release a 'standard' layout 2 nacelle Intel ship at some point... for Zen of course. Just like how the Scimitar wasn't in the LoR bundle.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Well, if the new cruiser is from the 4 nacelle line of cruisers then that probably means Cryptic will release a 'standard' layout 2 nacelle Intel ship at some point... for Zen of course. Just like how the Scimitar wasn't in the LoR bundle.
Possibly, but I suspect that continuing the Enterprise style cruiser lineage is the Guardian's job.
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
I could maybe see Prometheus -> Eclipse. That might make sense, since Prometheus was an experimental assault vessel, and I would call the Eclipse a VERY experimental assault vessel.
But Cheyenne -> Eclipse is REALLY REALLY REALLY far fetched. Other than having 4 nacelles in common, there is very little similarity between those 2 vessels, and so its like the Eclipse is about 2-3 generations of design lineage advancement.
Furthermore, this is supposed to be a cruiser, not an escort. It simply doesn't have a traditional cruiser look. 150 to 200 years from 2410, closer to the age of the Enterprise-J, it might look more "in place" but for the current design tradition of cruisers in 2410 (Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Galaxy, etc) it looks completely out of place.
And I STILL hate 4-nacelle designs. So very ugly. :P
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
CRYPTIC WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WITH THE FED SHIPS!? I notice some of you saying the Guardian looks good. could you link a pcik. All I have seen is an outline and that outline at least looks like a fed ship.
CRYPTIC WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WITH THE FED SHIPS!? I notice some of you saying the Guardian looks good. could you link a pcik. All I have seen is an outline and that outline at least looks like a fed ship.
Sorry Cryptic, i have seen the new federationships today and i must say it.
This ships - escort, battlecruiser and sience vessel - looks (very) horrible and they are not typically star trek designed.
That is a bad idea to hold many german players in game.
The other ships form the romulan and klingons a very good - it`s my opinion - and have a god modern future look which based on star trek design.
I could maybe see Prometheus -> Eclipse. That might make sense, since Prometheus was an experimental assault vessel, and I would call the Eclipse a VERY experimental assault vessel.
But Cheyenne -> Eclipse is REALLY REALLY REALLY far fetched. Other than having 4 nacelles in common, there is very little similarity between those 2 vessels, and so its like the Eclipse is about 2-3 generations of design lineage advancement.
Furthermore, this is supposed to be a cruiser, not an escort. It simply doesn't have a traditional cruiser look. 150 to 200 years from 2410, closer to the age of the Enterprise-J, it might look more "in place" but for the current design tradition of cruisers in 2410 (Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Galaxy, etc) it looks completely out of place.
And I STILL hate 4-nacelle designs. So very ugly. :P
Since it mostly seems to be saucer and nacelles, I'd say it has more in common with the Cheyenne than the Prometheus. Sure, the saucer is long and kinda pointy, but that's been the trend for post-Galaxy era ships.
the ONLY ONE that looks like it's a Fed ship. You can guarantee that will be the most popular T6 fed ship if they stick with these. Cryptic. I don't mind if you have to delay Greed Rising but DON'T PUT THOSE SHIPS IN!
hahaha; sorry but this is just funny; these new ships are totally ugly. bye, Star Trek, welcome in something else. And the consoles, wow they are ridiculous, and now Feds can cloak. All this stuff is just a huge joke. This game becomes a big kindergarten where kids can play with shiny objects, but without a real purpose
finally i'm rather happy, now i'm sure that I'm not going to spend Euros :P
Comments
"They're not Starfleet ships; they're Section 31 ships."
These ships have all been designed with the intelligence systems at the forefront. To me, that seems like Section 31's aesthetic. Being sent to the other end of known space in a ship with a bunch of super-advanced surveillance and combat systems, and a cloaking device in defiance of Starfleet's "we're the good guys and we don't need to sneak around" attitude? I bet a shiny nickel that Franklin Drake or one of his boys in black is going to figure prominently in the whole push into the Delta Quadrant.
It makes sense, too. The Iconian gateway on New Romulus led us to find the Solanae Dyson sphere, discover a portion of the Iconians' plans, come into conflict with the Voth, discover more of the Iconians' plans, come into very direct conflict with the Undine, get told off by an angry Iconian, and find ourselves with a pretty short path to the heart of our oldest collective enemy (the Borg). So why wouldn't Drake be pushing for Starfleet to put the Borg down for good? The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans don't lack for major existential threats and the Borg cannot be reasoned with the same way the Voth or the Undine can.
"Negotiation is pointless, so we have to destroy them. There is no other way." Something like that could very well sway some top brass into launching this unprecedented expedition.
The Romulans and KDF all have great designs. I already have a Fed-Rom, so, I can take advantage of those. My KDF characters are not endgame-level yet, but those two ships make me interested to pushed them the rest of the way.
Federation ships appears to be more controversial, but I like them too:
The Phantom Escort feels like its strongly inspired from the Defiant, albeit larger akin to the greater girth the patrol escort have. It also seems to draw from the Akira-lineage with the raised protuberances that help hide the bridge from the sides.
The Scryer makes the fanboy in me giddy - it's a reuse of Perpetual assets (Finally!). I think it looks like a nice science ship (heck, it looks really science oriented) though it doesn't have an appeal that makes me go "OMG I want to command it!"
I love how the Eclipse cruiser looks, personally. To me, it harkens back to the four-nacelled heavy cruiser line as a possible Stargazer-class successor, and also reminds me of the Jupiter-class dreadnought. I like how it looks and have no problem seeing its place as a future starfleet ship.Heck, it has no visible bridge, meaning it much be deeper inside the hull - my fleetmate Yuzral would approve.
The Guardian Cruiser brings in a bit of Galaxy-class, a bit of Ambassador-class, and saucer proportions remind me of the Voyager's primary hull... though the whole composition actually seems strongly inspired from the Perpetual Excalibur-class too. Style-wise, it seems to draw a lot of cues from it (as in, Sovereignized-Galaxy-class with rather horizontally-leaning nacelle pylons).
I like what I see and I've already bought my Operations pack. Delta Rising shows signs of having great production value, and I'm more than happy to show that we're an audience that will make it worth the effort.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwnBDteLqMlniHajCdjwyhyAhRsu4H3CcLneMFLIN99xmtCuME
http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwis16bJSu1r8058ko1_500.png
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
The open saucer reminded me of this, but you know... blue, and in space...
So...your logic is that something is ugly just because it doesn't look similar to something before it?
Qib does look interesting, dpeending on specs I may decide to move my KDF Tac into it rather then spending to upgrade her Mogh.
It's the logic of canon and design.
In terms of canon, when an intellectual property has significant hallmarks that identify the intellectual property, any advancement in the IP general has a lineage to it that maintains the connection to what came before it. IE: Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy
In terms of design (having an engineering background myself) generally design isn't completely and totally different for something of a common purpose. For example, let's say you design a pre-stressed box girder bridge. It has a particular look. Now 100 years later, another engineer replaces your bridge. His specifications are to replace in kind, IE with a pre-stressed box girder bridge, but his end result is actually a cable suspension bridge. It would be incorrect to call that replacement bridge a pre-stressed box girder, when the design of it clearly is a cable suspension.
Therefore design lineage doesn't generally go Constitution -> Excelsior -> Flying Ice Scraper.
It simply doesn't fit.
And to me, that is ugly. Its one thing to give a new, modernized and updated appearance. But completely changing the design lineage doesn't make it the same.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
You are looking at the wrong lineage.
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
Kinda-sorta remind me of some of the concept art work by the Perpetual Entertainment folks.
Just be glad They didn't decide to use the "Pooping Pooch" design. (Excaliber)
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
John Eaves' designs. Cryptic should hire him to do more ships. He officially worked on Star Trek afterall.
I never knew he did all the sketches for the ships on Archers wall in the NX-01.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Droid Control Ship (Star Wars)
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130126014042/starwars/images/a/a2/DroidControlShip-TPM.png
:P
If Cryptic tags them that way I could buy that reason for their non-Fed look. S31 are sneaky TRIBBLE and also 'allows' the fact that they all cloak. But if they say they are new basic/standard Starfleet designs, then no.
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
But that thing is as big as ESD on its side!
I can see your point, but the scale between the two is quite different.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yeah, there's too little similarity to previous designs, especially the Odyssey, for these to be the new standard in Starfleet. At best, you have broad outline similarities (that escort is kinda the same shape as a Defiant, etc.), but no real evolution of detail. That Guardian-class looks like a Starfleet ship, since it's so similar to the Andrew Probert design for the Ambassador-class, but that's it.
Well, if the new cruiser is from the 4 nacelle line of cruisers then that probably means Cryptic will release a 'standard' layout 2 nacelle Intel ship at some point... for Zen of course. Just like how the Scimitar wasn't in the LoR bundle.
Possibly, but I suspect that continuing the Enterprise style cruiser lineage is the Guardian's job.
I could maybe see Prometheus -> Eclipse. That might make sense, since Prometheus was an experimental assault vessel, and I would call the Eclipse a VERY experimental assault vessel.
But Cheyenne -> Eclipse is REALLY REALLY REALLY far fetched. Other than having 4 nacelles in common, there is very little similarity between those 2 vessels, and so its like the Eclipse is about 2-3 generations of design lineage advancement.
Furthermore, this is supposed to be a cruiser, not an escort. It simply doesn't have a traditional cruiser look. 150 to 200 years from 2410, closer to the age of the Enterprise-J, it might look more "in place" but for the current design tradition of cruisers in 2410 (Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Galaxy, etc) it looks completely out of place.
And I STILL hate 4-nacelle designs. So very ugly. :P
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
This is the guardian.
http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/arc/1c/cf/1ccfe6a7d3e62f86d69b6eec1c3ba8a51409699076_656x369.jpg
Sorry Cryptic, i have seen the new federationships today and i must say it.
This ships - escort, battlecruiser and sience vessel - looks (very) horrible and they are not typically star trek designed.
That is a bad idea to hold many german players in game.
The other ships form the romulan and klingons a very good - it`s my opinion - and have a god modern future look which based on star trek design.
Don't you go bad-mouthin' my Prometheus.
Since it mostly seems to be saucer and nacelles, I'd say it has more in common with the Cheyenne than the Prometheus. Sure, the saucer is long and kinda pointy, but that's been the trend for post-Galaxy era ships.
when they were all sitting around the table and they presented these, how did anyone even remotely think these were acceptable.
I am now even more glad I quit the game ust intime for star trek Jurassic park/tron/star wars online dropped.
the ONLY ONE that looks like it's a Fed ship. You can guarantee that will be the most popular T6 fed ship if they stick with these. Cryptic. I don't mind if you have to delay Greed Rising but DON'T PUT THOSE SHIPS IN!
finally i'm rather happy, now i'm sure that I'm not going to spend Euros :P