So...your logic is that something is ugly just because it doesn't look similar to something before it?
It's the logic of canon and design.
In terms of canon, when an intellectual property has significant hallmarks that identify the intellectual property, any advancement in the IP general has a lineage to it that maintains the connection to what came before it. IE: Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy
In terms of design (having an engineering background myself) generally design isn't completely and totally different for something of a common purpose. For example, let's say you design a pre-stressed box girder bridge. It has a particular look. Now 100 years later, another engineer replaces your bridge. His specifications are to replace in kind, IE with a pre-stressed box girder bridge, but his end result is actually a cable suspension bridge. It would be incorrect to call that replacement bridge a pre-stressed box girder, when the design of it clearly is a cable suspension.
Therefore design lineage doesn't generally go Constitution -> Excelsior -> Flying Ice Scraper.
It simply doesn't fit.
And to me, that is ugly. Its one thing to give a new, modernized and updated appearance. But completely changing the design lineage doesn't make it the same.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
In terms of canon, when an intellectual property has significant hallmarks that identify the intellectual property, any advancement in the IP general has a lineage to it that maintains the connection to what came before it. IE: Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy
In terms of design (having an engineering background myself) generally design isn't completely and totally different for something of a common purpose. For example, let's say you design a pre-stressed box girder bridge. It has a particular look. Now 100 years later, another engineer replaces your bridge. His specifications are to replace in kind, IE with a pre-stressed box girder bridge, but his end result is actually a cable suspension bridge. It would be incorrect to call that replacement bridge a pre-stressed box girder, when the design of it clearly is a cable suspension.
Therefore design lineage doesn't generally go Constitution -> Excelsior -> Flying Ice Scraper.
It simply doesn't fit.
And to me, that is ugly. Its one thing to give a new, modernized and updated appearance. But completely changing the design lineage doesn't make it the same.
You are looking at the wrong lineage.
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
Just be glad They didn't decide to use the "Pooping Pooch" design. (Excaliber)
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
John Eaves' designs. Cryptic should hire him to do more ships. He officially worked on Star Trek afterall.
I never knew he did all the sketches for the ships on Archers wall in the NX-01.
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I am not caring what the kdf or rom ships look like because I think the current ones are ugly anyway, so I was planning on getting a tier 6 ship on my rom and kdf chars regardless of what they look like. But my fed is completely different she has the Fleet long range sci vessel retrofit, basically voyager. I absolutely love this ship and I have customized it to make it pink. I was under the impression that a new voyager like ship was suppose to come out at delta rising. I am disappointed that this doesn't seem to be the case. So I wont be getting a tier 6 ship on my fed unless they come out with another intrepid class that I can make pink. These ships look to be basically uncustomizable in regards to colors. Which is just lame.
Helping people is my passion in life. If I see someone without a smile I try to give them mine.
I saw a comment on Reddit that, I think, explains these new ship designs quite nicely:
"They're not Starfleet ships; they're Section 31 ships."
If Cryptic tags them that way I could buy that reason for their non-Fed look. S31 are sneaky TRIBBLE and also 'allows' the fact that they all cloak. But if they say they are new basic/standard Starfleet designs, then no.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Well... I just lost most of my excitement for DR. The Guardian looks like it has potential, but the other three ships look very off putting to me. I really wanted to like them, just can't bring myself to. I can't fathom the design progression at all.
I can see your point, but the scale between the two is quite different.
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
If Cryptic tags them that way I could buy that reason for their non-Fed look. S31 are sneaky TRIBBLE and also 'allows' the fact that they all cloak. But if they say they are new basic/standard Starfleet designs, then no.
Yeah, there's too little similarity to previous designs, especially the Odyssey, for these to be the new standard in Starfleet. At best, you have broad outline similarities (that escort is kinda the same shape as a Defiant, etc.), but no real evolution of detail. That Guardian-class looks like a Starfleet ship, since it's so similar to the Andrew Probert design for the Ambassador-class, but that's it.
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show. I should really just relax."
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
Well, if the new cruiser is from the 4 nacelle line of cruisers then that probably means Cryptic will release a 'standard' layout 2 nacelle Intel ship at some point... for Zen of course. Just like how the Scimitar wasn't in the LoR bundle.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Well, if the new cruiser is from the 4 nacelle line of cruisers then that probably means Cryptic will release a 'standard' layout 2 nacelle Intel ship at some point... for Zen of course. Just like how the Scimitar wasn't in the LoR bundle.
Possibly, but I suspect that continuing the Enterprise style cruiser lineage is the Guardian's job.
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
I could maybe see Prometheus -> Eclipse. That might make sense, since Prometheus was an experimental assault vessel, and I would call the Eclipse a VERY experimental assault vessel.
But Cheyenne -> Eclipse is REALLY REALLY REALLY far fetched. Other than having 4 nacelles in common, there is very little similarity between those 2 vessels, and so its like the Eclipse is about 2-3 generations of design lineage advancement.
Furthermore, this is supposed to be a cruiser, not an escort. It simply doesn't have a traditional cruiser look. 150 to 200 years from 2410, closer to the age of the Enterprise-J, it might look more "in place" but for the current design tradition of cruisers in 2410 (Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Galaxy, etc) it looks completely out of place.
And I STILL hate 4-nacelle designs. So very ugly. :P
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
CRYPTIC WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WITH THE FED SHIPS!? I notice some of you saying the Guardian looks good. could you link a pcik. All I have seen is an outline and that outline at least looks like a fed ship.
CRYPTIC WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WITH THE FED SHIPS!? I notice some of you saying the Guardian looks good. could you link a pcik. All I have seen is an outline and that outline at least looks like a fed ship.
Sorry Cryptic, i have seen the new federationships today and i must say it.
This ships - escort, battlecruiser and sience vessel - looks (very) horrible and they are not typically star trek designed.
That is a bad idea to hold many german players in game.
The other ships form the romulan and klingons a very good - it`s my opinion - and have a god modern future look which based on star trek design.
I could maybe see Prometheus -> Eclipse. That might make sense, since Prometheus was an experimental assault vessel, and I would call the Eclipse a VERY experimental assault vessel.
But Cheyenne -> Eclipse is REALLY REALLY REALLY far fetched. Other than having 4 nacelles in common, there is very little similarity between those 2 vessels, and so its like the Eclipse is about 2-3 generations of design lineage advancement.
Furthermore, this is supposed to be a cruiser, not an escort. It simply doesn't have a traditional cruiser look. 150 to 200 years from 2410, closer to the age of the Enterprise-J, it might look more "in place" but for the current design tradition of cruisers in 2410 (Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Galaxy, etc) it looks completely out of place.
And I STILL hate 4-nacelle designs. So very ugly. :P
Since it mostly seems to be saucer and nacelles, I'd say it has more in common with the Cheyenne than the Prometheus. Sure, the saucer is long and kinda pointy, but that's been the trend for post-Galaxy era ships.
the ONLY ONE that looks like it's a Fed ship. You can guarantee that will be the most popular T6 fed ship if they stick with these. Cryptic. I don't mind if you have to delay Greed Rising but DON'T PUT THOSE SHIPS IN!
hahaha; sorry but this is just funny; these new ships are totally ugly. bye, Star Trek, welcome in something else. And the consoles, wow they are ridiculous, and now Feds can cloak. All this stuff is just a huge joke. This game becomes a big kindergarten where kids can play with shiny objects, but without a real purpose
finally i'm rather happy, now i'm sure that I'm not going to spend Euros :P
These ship designs, which seem to be attempting to ape the aesthetics of the 'Vengence' from the last JJ Trek movie-plus the 'Intelligence bridge officers' and the cloaking on all fed ships, combined with the dev comments in the 'federation phase cloak' thread make it seem all but obvious that these ships are Section 31.
I'm not sure I feel very good about all the T6 being S31, or the implication that S31 is going to be at the forefront of Starfleet's actions in the Delta Quadrant. Looks like we might be railroaded into having our captains work for that organization again. Plus, they look absolutely hideous and nothing at all like Starfleet designs. The vengeance barely resembled a Starfleet design to begin with, this lot are even further removed-the cruiser has more in common with Tholian Aesthetics than Starfleet ones!
The Romulan and Klingon ones are passable at best. The Romulan one looks better than many of the other Cryptic designs, but it's still heavily based off that ugly little monster the Dhealan, and it shows. The nacelles are comically oversized, (it looks like it should be sliding around a skating rink) as usual-and once again Cryytic seems incapable of grasping the concept of curves on a Romulan ship.
The way Cryptic is selling these ships abilities, I'm really dubious about their claims that they won't be OP in regards to the T5u ships. In addition to the special bridge officers (which get to fire off their abilities at commander level, no less) they all get cloaks (including the Fed ones!) and an enhanced battle cloak for the romulans, plus an ability that sounds like some combination of sensor analysis and the exploit system ground combat has. So where's the tradeoff?
The criticism of those Fed designs is harsh, but I'm sorry to say, it's fair. Those do not look like Federation ships. Those do not look like Star Trek.
For us to be shoehorned into T6, then for it to be so visually unappealing is tough to take. I don't want to fall behind, but I also won't be caught dead flying one of those things. This is bad, bad news. Sorry.
Did we really need three hideous Section-31 ships? No sense trying to pretend they weren't, since in the fed cloaking thread a dev dropped in and hinted that the Federation might get cloaking ships via section 31, and these designs are clearly aping the Vengeance from the last Star Trek movie.
Sounds like S31 will have a big role in DR, and will be spearheading the exploration, if three of the Fed ship designs being S 31 is any indication of things to come...not looking forward to that again.
With all these special abilities, I wonder how on earth they are supposed to be in any way balanced with T5u ships. They sound pretty powerful.
Comments
Qib does look interesting, dpeending on specs I may decide to move my KDF Tac into it rather then spending to upgrade her Mogh.
It's the logic of canon and design.
In terms of canon, when an intellectual property has significant hallmarks that identify the intellectual property, any advancement in the IP general has a lineage to it that maintains the connection to what came before it. IE: Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy
In terms of design (having an engineering background myself) generally design isn't completely and totally different for something of a common purpose. For example, let's say you design a pre-stressed box girder bridge. It has a particular look. Now 100 years later, another engineer replaces your bridge. His specifications are to replace in kind, IE with a pre-stressed box girder bridge, but his end result is actually a cable suspension bridge. It would be incorrect to call that replacement bridge a pre-stressed box girder, when the design of it clearly is a cable suspension.
Therefore design lineage doesn't generally go Constitution -> Excelsior -> Flying Ice Scraper.
It simply doesn't fit.
And to me, that is ugly. Its one thing to give a new, modernized and updated appearance. But completely changing the design lineage doesn't make it the same.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
You are looking at the wrong lineage.
In this case, the lineage would be Constellation -> Cheyenne -> Eclipse. Possibly Prometheus should be in there too.
Kinda-sorta remind me of some of the concept art work by the Perpetual Entertainment folks.
Just be glad They didn't decide to use the "Pooping Pooch" design. (Excaliber)
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
John Eaves' designs. Cryptic should hire him to do more ships. He officially worked on Star Trek afterall.
I never knew he did all the sketches for the ships on Archers wall in the NX-01.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Droid Control Ship (Star Wars)
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130126014042/starwars/images/a/a2/DroidControlShip-TPM.png
:P
If Cryptic tags them that way I could buy that reason for their non-Fed look. S31 are sneaky TRIBBLE and also 'allows' the fact that they all cloak. But if they say they are new basic/standard Starfleet designs, then no.
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
But that thing is as big as ESD on its side!
I can see your point, but the scale between the two is quite different.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yeah, there's too little similarity to previous designs, especially the Odyssey, for these to be the new standard in Starfleet. At best, you have broad outline similarities (that escort is kinda the same shape as a Defiant, etc.), but no real evolution of detail. That Guardian-class looks like a Starfleet ship, since it's so similar to the Andrew Probert design for the Ambassador-class, but that's it.
Well, if the new cruiser is from the 4 nacelle line of cruisers then that probably means Cryptic will release a 'standard' layout 2 nacelle Intel ship at some point... for Zen of course. Just like how the Scimitar wasn't in the LoR bundle.
Possibly, but I suspect that continuing the Enterprise style cruiser lineage is the Guardian's job.
I could maybe see Prometheus -> Eclipse. That might make sense, since Prometheus was an experimental assault vessel, and I would call the Eclipse a VERY experimental assault vessel.
But Cheyenne -> Eclipse is REALLY REALLY REALLY far fetched. Other than having 4 nacelles in common, there is very little similarity between those 2 vessels, and so its like the Eclipse is about 2-3 generations of design lineage advancement.
Furthermore, this is supposed to be a cruiser, not an escort. It simply doesn't have a traditional cruiser look. 150 to 200 years from 2410, closer to the age of the Enterprise-J, it might look more "in place" but for the current design tradition of cruisers in 2410 (Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Galaxy, etc) it looks completely out of place.
And I STILL hate 4-nacelle designs. So very ugly. :P
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
This is the guardian.
http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/arc/1c/cf/1ccfe6a7d3e62f86d69b6eec1c3ba8a51409699076_656x369.jpg
Sorry Cryptic, i have seen the new federationships today and i must say it.
This ships - escort, battlecruiser and sience vessel - looks (very) horrible and they are not typically star trek designed.
That is a bad idea to hold many german players in game.
The other ships form the romulan and klingons a very good - it`s my opinion - and have a god modern future look which based on star trek design.
Don't you go bad-mouthin' my Prometheus.
Since it mostly seems to be saucer and nacelles, I'd say it has more in common with the Cheyenne than the Prometheus. Sure, the saucer is long and kinda pointy, but that's been the trend for post-Galaxy era ships.
when they were all sitting around the table and they presented these, how did anyone even remotely think these were acceptable.
I am now even more glad I quit the game ust intime for star trek Jurassic park/tron/star wars online dropped.
the ONLY ONE that looks like it's a Fed ship. You can guarantee that will be the most popular T6 fed ship if they stick with these. Cryptic. I don't mind if you have to delay Greed Rising but DON'T PUT THOSE SHIPS IN!
finally i'm rather happy, now i'm sure that I'm not going to spend Euros :P
I'm not sure I feel very good about all the T6 being S31, or the implication that S31 is going to be at the forefront of Starfleet's actions in the Delta Quadrant. Looks like we might be railroaded into having our captains work for that organization again. Plus, they look absolutely hideous and nothing at all like Starfleet designs. The vengeance barely resembled a Starfleet design to begin with, this lot are even further removed-the cruiser has more in common with Tholian Aesthetics than Starfleet ones!
The Romulan and Klingon ones are passable at best. The Romulan one looks better than many of the other Cryptic designs, but it's still heavily based off that ugly little monster the Dhealan, and it shows. The nacelles are comically oversized, (it looks like it should be sliding around a skating rink) as usual-and once again Cryytic seems incapable of grasping the concept of curves on a Romulan ship.
The way Cryptic is selling these ships abilities, I'm really dubious about their claims that they won't be OP in regards to the T5u ships. In addition to the special bridge officers (which get to fire off their abilities at commander level, no less) they all get cloaks (including the Fed ones!) and an enhanced battle cloak for the romulans, plus an ability that sounds like some combination of sensor analysis and the exploit system ground combat has. So where's the tradeoff?
For us to be shoehorned into T6, then for it to be so visually unappealing is tough to take. I don't want to fall behind, but I also won't be caught dead flying one of those things. This is bad, bad news. Sorry.
Sounds like S31 will have a big role in DR, and will be spearheading the exploration, if three of the Fed ship designs being S 31 is any indication of things to come...not looking forward to that again.
With all these special abilities, I wonder how on earth they are supposed to be in any way balanced with T5u ships. They sound pretty powerful.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/game-pack/detail/718-delta-rising-operations-pack
Look here